Ladies will meet other men. Men will meet other ladies.

[Kevin]

Hey guys  I wanted to point out a recurring problem that I see at  least 3-4 times a year with international dating.   

 We  know that every lady is  looking for a good  husband and  every men is looking for a good wife.  

Fact: There is a chance  that a lady/Men is going to be cordisponding with someone else during  the dating process.  Plain and simple everyone keeps looking until  the find the right person... 

 We also know that most often the  ladies are going to show the most interested to the men who meets  her in person then the men who writes a lot and never comes.  The  ladies are aware that less then 2 percent of the men who write will  show up and they understand that more then once the men they meet isn't  the men they are looking for. A photograph/profile is known to  lie. (I've seen it all from both sides)   At the same time you are  a reading this lets flip the coin over to the men's side. The men who  come to Ukraine typically write 10-50 ladies and meet 5-10 ladies per  visit.

 The truth is MEN are meeting  more Women then  Women meet Men. Very few men/women write only one and visit only one. I  have seen men come to my office to meet  with 5-10  ladies  that he been writing love letters too and fall in love  with a lady who happen to drop by the office that wasn't even on his  list.  Leaving a group of ladies wondering what happen to the  "love".  

FACT: More often Men pick  who they are going  to marry in Ukraine..   

FACT: Men/Women do not know  until the meet if they are right for each other.

Internet love is  a myth. You are never sure until you meet in person.

If you are writing a lady, do not think she is only  writing you unless she tells you so. Then try to  verify it with  the agency if possible.  The women do not believe you are only  writing  them either.  Keep it simple and open until you meet  in person.  

FACT: Do not fall in love with a photograph.    

DO NOT blame the agency/marriage broker/Friend  if you are writing  a group of ladies and one of them meets someone else prior to your  visit or after a visit and falls in love it not anyones fault.. .  Nobody  has  no control over the ladies decision on who she is going to fall in love  with or decide to start a one-to-one relationship. The only time the  agency can be held accountable if they are aware that a lady is  engaged/married.    Consider every men/lady to be  dating someone else until you are sure otherwise.    

Fact: Most ladies in their agencies have an active dating life while  they are waiting for a husband.  

Fact: Most men in agencies have  a active dating life while they are waiting for a wife. 
It is a  myth that agency employees can read minds and emotions.

 A honest  agencies is going to tell the client what they know about a lady and  any comments the lady makes about the client. They are also going to  tell the lady about the men.   But no matter how honest a  agency is we can not make or even hope of influencing a lady/men mind  or heart.   I've tried. :<..  

I wanted to give every  reader something to think out that's in the back of everyone's  thoughts but not often spoken about..  

Thanks
Kevin Hayes
http://www.khersongirls.com

[enigma_julie]

Kevin,

Thanks for the article. You are right in many  things. You know, I think men need to be able to understand that writing to a lady is a responsibility to some extent. There are guys who write letters and say things they do not really mean or they DO mean but it would be true even if they wrote it to 100 ladies. And then after some time they start wondering why things are not going well with the girls and why he can not get closer to any of them through the letters.

You know, girls who are involved in this process and especially those who have been looking for a while are not dumb. They can usually tell if a guy is writing a letter to just write a letter or if he really is trying to make a personal connection. They can also feel (most of the time) if a guy is writing  to just one girl or if he keeps his options open... They do not need a confirmation from an agency, they just know...

I think, as sad as it is, matchmaking is viewed more like a business deal most of the time and not a romantic way to find your second half. The idea of love at first sight is getting lost. I think that both - men and women involved in the process need to keep things more romantic, honest and pure, then there will be a lot more success stories and happy endings.

I also know from experience that girls do not like the feeling of being "just one out of many on the list" no matter if they admit it or not. On the other hand, it is easy to understand guys who are getting ready to travel all the way around the world and want a back up plan.

I believe and always encourage both men and women to be as honest as they can possibly be while writing letters and trying to get to know someone. I believe this is the only way good relationships can be built - when a girl is being honest, a guy is being honest and...... the agency involved is being honest too :angel:

[Albert]

[user=892]enigma_julie[/user] wrote:

I also know from experience that girls do not like the feeling of being "just one out of many on the list" no matter if they admit it or not. On the other hand, it is easy to understand guys who are getting ready to travel all the way around the world and want a back up plan.

Julie, you could do your gals a big favor if you could coach them to be more rational about this and to see things as you do.  i.e. understanding the stupidy of guys traveling around the world to meet just one gal who may reject him in 10 minutes of first meeting.

[enigma_julie]

Albert,

People are different. Some of the girls are rational without any help, some become more rational with time and after meeting some men who come through the agency, but some girls - just like some guys - are and will always be hopless romantics who believe in perfect world and harmony no matter what you tell them.

I believe they too have a right to be happy. It just takes the right two people to make a great relationships.

I was mainly talking about honesty and finding the right match .

Julie

[Albert]

[user=892]enigma_julie[/user] wrote:

I think, as sad as it is, matchmaking is viewed more like a business deal most of the time and not a romantic way to find your second half. The idea of love at first sight is getting lost. I think that both - men and women involved in the process need to keep things more romantic, honest and pure, then there will be a lot more success stories and happy endings.

Julie, matchmaking IS a business deal.  Love at first sight is probably a one in a million chance.  Mostly fools fall in love through exchange of letters and at first sight.  There is much more pain involved in these quick love situations than in a more rational approach of:  let's correspond, then meet, then see how we fit, then either say goodbye or proceed to another meeting, then engagement, then marriage.

Your talk of 'more romantic, honest and pure' is just another way of saying 'write only one woman and travel around the world to see just this one woman.'  Yes, we men understand that women love this approach.  When the meeting flops, the ladies just walk back to their apartment and continue life as normal.   Of course the woman goes through some trauma of having her hopes dashed, etc.  But the man suffers this same trauma plus: They guy has used up his vacation time for the year, used up his travel money for the year, etc. 

Get back to your rational thoughts Julie.  All your clients will benefit.  Doesn't matchmaking have a long history in FSU, long before the internet?  These were arranged marriages with very little contact between the parties before the marriage.  This system still works well in China and India.  True love will come to such marriages where some basic compatibilities exist and both parties act in good faith and work hard at the marriage.

[enigma_julie]

Albert,

You know, I think I have a bit more experince in matchmaking then you think I do And I do realize the rational part of this process. I actually always support guys who want to wirte to several girls because I do not want to be responsible for their broken hearts and their dissapointments when they come here. I want happy endings and good results and I want to see people happy. What I was trying to say is that guys need to be more responsible and not LIE to the girls about - " oh, you are my one and only, and I am not writing to anyone else.." if that is not the case and they are being asked about it. The same goes for girls. The rational part of this process is that you do not need to fool around or play games, but you don't need to make this process a simple dry business deal like - ok, you are good looking, I can offer you this and that, what will I get in return? Or - well, he gives me a better life and even though I don't feel anything for this guy, I will stil lgo for it.

Some guys AND girls just go to the extreme on one side or another. There should be balance there, don't you think? That's all I am saying.

How many guys are out there who would travel to a foreign country to find a girl if it was just rational, dry approach? I believe what gets guys on the plane is a dream and when they FEEL wanted and cared about and not just THINKING or KNOWING that it might be a good way to find a nice wife.

[Albert]

[user=892]enigma_julie[/user] wrote:

What I was trying to say is that guys need to be more responsible and not LIE to the girls about - " oh, you are my one and only, and I am not writing to anyone else.."

Some guys AND girls just go to the extreme on one side or another. There should be balance there, don't you think? That's all I am saying.

Julie, this is not fair!!  You might 'out-talk me.'   :-))  It is my bedtime here, while your day is just starting and you are perky and fresh . . . . I presume, unless you had a bad night of sleep.

Yes, I can agree with your balance idea.

Now, as to the first part above . . . . is is possible that many guys lie because they are trained by the gals to lie?  i.e. They know what the gals want to hear . . . . so they say it to keep the fire going until the first meeting.

Again, you need to counsel your gals.  Tell them to not ask questions of the guys re how many other gals are you writing to, etc.   No asking . . . no receiving lies.  :-))

Goodnight Julie . . . . for me that is!

 

[enigma_julie]

Nighty night Albert And many dreams of beautiful Rusisan girls to you... he-he

[swindoom]

understanding the stupidy of guys traveling around the world to meet just one gal who may reject him in 10 minutes of first meeting.

 

:XIt is not stupidity choosing to visit only one woman it is just a different approach, a very successful one in my case. I believe that you should visit as soon as possible as before you actually meet you are just internet penpals and nothing more.

[Turboguy]

It always seems to me that if you make a trip and you are trying to meet two gals a day for a couple of weeks that the one that is really the right one for you might say This guy is just playing games, I am not going to meet him.   Or that she would meet and knowing you are meeting a ton of woman might feel like she was on a job interview and the chemistry that might attract you and make you feel she was the one you wanted, would not be there.  

To me, there are a lot of different approaches and they all can have success and they all can have drawbacks.  I think whatever feels right to someone is what they should do and yes, you may try approaches that you feel are right, as I have, and say, this is not working well, lets do it differently.  Yes, in my case I am going to abandon the visit one technique that I just argued in favor of.   Hummm!

[BC]

'Hummm!' or 'Yummm!'

:D

[Zhena]

Naturally,a guy,who going here and using an agency,will meet many girls. Its silly to think that he wont. I taking it normally for example. But some men lie about it unfortunately. So a girl,if finding out a truth,feels fooled around. Just be honest,Mr. And probably grl will understand this. If she wont,then you think-do you need such type of a girl?

[KenC]

It always seems to me that if you make a trip and you are trying to meet two gals a day for a couple of weeks that the one that is really the right one for you might say This guy is just playing games, I am not going to meet him.   Or that she would meet and knowing you are meeting a ton of woman might feel like she was on a job interview and the chemistry that might attract you and make you feel she was the one you wanted, would not be there.  

To me, there are a lot of different approaches and they all can have success and they all can have drawbacks.  I think whatever feels right to someone is what they should do and yes, you may try approaches that you feel are right, as I have, and say, this is not working well, lets do it differently.  Yes, in my case I am going to abandon the visit one technique that I just argued in favor of.   Hummm!

Turbo,

As I was reading the first part of your post, I was thinking "Gee, how's that been working for you, Turbo?":(  Then I read the last few sentences and said "whew.":D

Of course just about any approach will work for some or a few, but maybe not for most.  I have to laugh about the idea that the women will be offended by guys visiting others though.  These ladies are usually not so stupid as to not know what is going on.  After all, most are listed in an agency.  They know they will have competition.  Most do not take offense to it, but step up their game.

When I visited my now wife of 7 years, she assumed that I would meet other women.  The women I met knew I was meeting others too.  There was never a problem with it, except my own uncomfortableness.  I guess if I were a player, I could have had a lot more fun with the other ladies while I was there.  But I felt insincere meeting women after I knew that Lena and I really did have a connection.  However, that was only after I felt that Lena and I had a good chance for something very special.

I see nothing wrong with meeting many women during the selection process.  In fact I think it is foolish not to do so.  And this is where I think you, Turbo, have made your mistakes.  Instead of jetting over to meet a single gal or two, set up a schedule to meet and greet many in a single location.  You are in no way deceiving anyone by doing so either.  You are a single man in serious search of a wife.  You are more than willing to make the trip (a huge thing in of itself) and more than willing to make the commitment (as you have shown in your recent history).  Quit chasing every woman that gives you the time of day via the Net and map out a well planned trip to meet many women in one location. 

Jack Bragg really had this down to a science IMO.  He would set up meetings with 4 or 5 women per day in the beginning of his trip.  They all would be short meetings over coffee or a light snack.  (Remember you are going to have 4 or 5 meetings, so don't eat a lot)  Personally, I would also reccomend that you take notes after each meeting too.  After a few days of this pace, you will need them to remember your Olga from your Sveta.

After you have gone through the "weeding out" process for 3 or 4 days, you then can zero in on your top candidates.  Out of the 20 or so women you have met, you might find yourself with 3 to 5 prime candidates.  You then proceed to longer more intense lunch/dinner dates with all of them.  These should be set up at resturants of your choosing.  No $200 dinners allowed.  Of course the very best possibilities should be for dinners and the lesser ones for lunch.  At the end of one week, you should find yourself faced with one or two very interesting possibilities instead of wasting time at an Internet Cafe!

KenC

[al-c]

Yes, it is true that some men insist on playing the field and meeting multiple women when they go there, but that is not true of many men and is certainly not true of this man.

When I start, of course I write to a few women, but eventually it narrows down to one, as is the case now.  Olga is the only woman I have written to since October and the only woman I plan to meet when I go there next month.

I know I take a risk by meeting only one woman, but I just can't connect with multiple women, thus if I were to meet two or three, I would connect with zero.

 

[KenC]

[user=527]al-c[/user] wrote:

Yes, it is true that some men insist on playing the field and meeting multiple women when they go there, but that is not true of many men and is certainly not true of this man.

When I start, of course I write to a few women, but eventually it narrows down to one, as is the case now.  Olga is the only woman I have written to since October and the only woman I plan to meet when I go there next month.

I know I take a risk by meeting only one woman, but I just can't connect with multiple women, thus if I were to meet two or three, I would connect with zero.

 

Good luck with that approach.  IMO, I see two big flaws in your thinking:That you are making a "connection" via the net and that you could never make a "connection" if you met multiple women.

Making a connection via the Net-

There is just too many unknown variables in an Internet "relationship."  Months of correspondence does not add up to the first 1/2 hour of face to face time.  You also run the great risk of creating a fantasy "relationship."  The human mind is so much more creative than reality.  One will tend to read what they want into words shared with another.  This is especially true in anything closely related to romance.

Never being able to make a connection while meeting multiple women-

Too many guys start this process without the proper amount of patience.  When you are meeting many women, you are just doing that: meeting them.  There is no profession of love or even romance.  You are just casually meeting them to explore the possibility of having matching personalities or mutual interest.  No one (in their right mind) would put any more weight on these intial meetings than just that.  If you have never tried this approach, then you really cannot be a proper judge of the technique.

I am not a fan of long term correspondence before meeting.  I think it is very easy for the couple to get too involved and sidetracked with a lot of useless and many times misleading correspondence.  Things just get too built up this way and there is a tendency to set unobtainable and unrealistic results from the first meetings.  Your "narrowing down the field" would be much better done face to face then over the Net.  You guys that hang on every word written by a RW crack me up.  Most of them have a very slippery grasp of the English language at best and some are even having their letters written by others!  You can't fake body language or have someone else sub for them.

And just what is wrong with "playing the field" on an exploritory trip to Russia?

KenC

[Turboguy]

Ken, you are making some good points and I do not disagree with anything you are saying.   I do think that people are comfortable with the approach they feel fits them.

I think another factor is how your are coming up with your cantidates.   Most of the guys who are meeting 2-5 women a day are using agencies.   I have never used agencies other than for addresses.   That does not mean I think they are bad.   I think they are great.  I just have never used them. 

For me if I went someplace like Kiev or Moscow and tried to meet women at that clip the only way I could do it using the gals I have met through E-mails.  would be to bring them in long distances and then I would feel really bad giving them a short amount of time. 

Right now after a few misadventures I don't plan on making any more trips to visit one gal.  I think my program at the minute will be initial meetings of one or two days.  Perhaps if there is one I really think I might like I might make it three but that will be a rare exception.

I am sure all the gals would like it if we made a long trip just to visit them and did not see any other women but the cold, hard realitiy of it is if they can meet another guy who is a good cantidate the day after we leave they will be there.   I try to never lie to the gals or to anyone for that matter but I don't go out of my way to tell them I am meeting other gals and if they asked I sure would not lie about it.

It is not stupidity choosing to visit only one woman it is just a different approach, a very successful one in my case. I believe that you should visit as soon as possible as before you actually meet you are just internet penpals and nothing more.

 

I agree, this is not a "stupid" approach. I met my wife this way and I think that it is a wise approach and here are some reasons why...


For one thing, your affections are not divided and you can actually get to know one girl; rather than trying to keep it all figured out in your head which one said what / likes what / etc. Yes, it seems to be a gamble, but as Kevin pointed out (and Looking53 also experienced), a lot of the time a man will meet someone that he wasn't even writing to at all while visiting overseas.


I just advised a good friend of mine to just go to Ukraine for a visit. Just go and tour a few towns, get to know the culture, look at some castles, mingle with the people and enjoy yourself. Chances are good that he could find a nice lady on such a trip IMO.



~Bear

[Kevin]

With modern technlogies such as video chats. The guy who WOVO can get a  better ideal of the ladies intentions.  The trick is to be sure  she is just as committed as you are.

If you are going to WOVO and the ladies seem to be just as sincere. The  next step is for both of you to stop writing others.  Both parties  should remove their profile from the active database of the agences.

But this does leave a problem about having a backup plan in case the chemistry isn't there in person.

That is why I recommend WO and have 3 backups "friends".  Keep it simple until you meet in person.

Kevin

[groovlstk]

I won't debate the pros and cons of WOVO vs. WMVM, but any guy starting his search should be fully warned about the very real potential of flying 4000 miles to meet someone he thinks he's fallen for, only to discover in the first 10 minutes upon arrival that she's not the woman for him, or vice versa. It's one of the worst feelings in the world and will cause a man to question his commitment.

[KenC]

For me if I went someplace like Kiev or Moscow and tried to meet women at that clip the only way I could do it using the gals I have met through E-mails.  would be to bring them in long distances and then I would feel really bad giving them a short amount of time. 

Right now after a few misadventures I don't plan on making any more trips to visit one gal.  I think my program at the minute will be initial meetings of one or two days.  Perhaps if there is one I really think I might like I might make it three but that will be a rare exception.

I am sure all the gals would like it if we made a long trip just to visit them and did not see any other women but the cold, hard realitiy of it is if they can meet another guy who is a good cantidate the day after we leave they will be there.   I try to never lie to the gals or to anyone for that matter but I don't go out of my way to tell them I am meeting other gals and if they asked I sure would not lie about it.

This could all be avoided if you were to use a central agency as I outlined.  Why don't you give Kevin a try?  I like his idea of video conferencing with the potential gals too.  IMO, you have just been using the most inefficient methods possible in your pursuit.  It is time to change and get some results.  I cannot think of a man that has put out as much effort as you with so little to show for it.

KenC

[KenC]

I won't debate the pros and cons of WOVO vs. WMVM, but any guy starting his search should be fully warned about the very real potential of flying 4000 miles to meet someone he thinks he's fallen for, only to discover in the first 10 minutes upon arrival that she's not the woman for him, or vice versa. It's one of the worst feelings in the world and will cause a man to question his commitment.

If a guy flys over to meet one chick and it is a bust, he is running at 100% failure rate.  Now if that same guy fails to connect with one of 20 possible women, he is at 5% failure rate.  Come on guys, it is a numbers game!  Increase your odds for success.  Many of you are fighting yourself more than anything else.

KenC

[Bruce]

I agree with what Ken C says but add that one should find a target rich environment with the kinds of gals you are looking for, preferably with a good agency or contact person to work with and go from there.  Lengthy correspondence is great for the agencies out there making dollars on your translations etc. but more often than not a complete waste of your time and money.  I know more than an introductory letter and a response of interest was more than a waste of time for me for sure!

[KenC]

Bruce,

I was kind of thinking about you as I wrote my posts here.  I know you gave a great and efficient effort to find your wife; visiting many different agencies and some even twice.  I'll never forget that you said that Tver was "all fished out!":cool:

KenC

[Noleman]

Thought I would weigh in on this topic.  I also agree that each man is going to have his own way of going about this and what he is comfortable with. We all know that what works for one does not work for all and I feel it is not my place to tell someone else what is best for them, actually none of us ever should.  Sure experience counts, and we should be wise to listen and learn from those who have traveled that road before, but it will always come down to what we feel is best for our individual situation.

I myself started down this road two years ago.  Got hooked up with what I feel is an honest and trustworthy agency in Tver called Tver Romance.  The ladies at the agency gave me great advice and never once pressured me to do anything that I did not want to, nor to try and seperate me from my hard earned money.

I started out by corresponding and talking on the phone with three ladies for about six months, feeling them out and seeing how things would develop before I made my trip, which was still six months away.  At that six month period of time I knew that there was only one lady that I wanted to see and be with and I let the other two know in as human and gentle way as possible that I was sorry but that I did not feel that we were going to be a good match and I did not want to waste there time.  I wished them both the very best and knowing them as I did I received a very nice letter and phone call from each of them telling me that they appreciated my sincerity and honesty with them and that they both wished me good luck.All three of the ladies knew that I was corresponding with the others from the very beginning as I have nothing to hide

Now the lady that I had chosen to put my efforts into had also been corresponding and receiving visits from other men, but as our corresponding became more personal she too realized that she only wanted to continue to develop a relationship with me, and from that point forward I was strictly the guy for her.  And again the agency verified this and it proved to be true when I went there.

So I made my trip to Tver last July, remember, I had been corresponding and talking on the phone with this lady for 12 months now, and guys I have to say, when she met me at the airport in Moscow we both knew that we had found in each other what we had always been searching for.  I spent 10 days in Tver and she was with me all day, every day.  And as we grew closer and closer in every way possible I knew that she was the one that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with. 

She wanted me to meet her parents and her family, which I also was wanting to do, so I arranged with the agency to have an interpreter accompany us to her parents home which was two hours away in another city.  Her 15 year old son was already there with his grandparents, but he too was there to meet me that very first day was well.  Now the purpose of the visit for me was one of secrecy because I wanted to ask her parents for permission to marry their daughter, not only because it was the right thing to do but to show the respect due her parents.  Of course I did it in private with the assistance of the interpreter.  Both of her parents I must confess cryed tears of happiness for both their daughter and grandson, but also tears in knowing that they would be moving far, far away.  They both gave me their blessing and I felt immediately that I was part of their family. The next thing was to ask them to please not say anything to their daughter as I had not yet proposed to her, of which they agreed and I know it must have been a difficult thing for them to help keep this secret.  After a few days upon returning to Tver we went to Moscow so I could do the tourist thing.  I hired a car and driver and had the same interpreter go with us as and enlisted them in my plan.  So we went and saw the "dead guy", and as we were walking around Red Square, taking photos etc. I asked the interpreter to take some photos of us and I had the driver use my video camera. As we were taking some photos I suddenly turned to her, dropped to one knee and in Russian asked her to marry me.  Needless to say she was totally surprised, but thrilled and overjoyed and said yes, yes, yes.  She later told me that day that in the instant between my asking for her hand in marriage and her answering me yes she saw her entire past flash by and that if she had said no she knew that she might never have this chance again to be with the man that she knew that she wanted to spend the rest of her life with.

Did I take a chance at WOVO vs WMVM, I sure did. But I got lucky, and you know what, sometimes it only take one time. 

After returning to Tver we had many discussions about many, many things.  But something that we both agreed upon was not to start the K-1 Process at that time as we did not want to have to have her son pull up and leave during the middle of the school year.  Was I suspect or discouraged, no, it never crosed my mind.  I have and had complete trust in this woman and she has never, ever given me any reaon to doubt her.  So, I returned back home but had already made plans to spend the holidays in Tver with her and her son.

So this past Dec. 29th I returned back to Tver and spent the best 12 days of my life.  She could not do enough for me, her home was my home and it felt like we were already married.  I had another enjoyable two day visit with her parents ( who were overwhelmed by my love, care and concern for their daughter and grandson ), her sister and her family as well as meeting lots of aunts, uncles, cousins, etc.  I met her best friend and her family on my first visit, and this time her best friends parents invited us over to their home one day and treated my like royality.  It is quite a humbling experience in knowing that you are so warmly welcomed into their lives. 

While I was there we got all of the K-1 paperwork accomplished and it is now in the proverbial pipeline ( wish me well guys ).

Now my fiancee' is giving up a lot to become my wife, because as she told me, she is marrying me because she loves me and wants to be with me, not because she has to.  She had a very successful and thriving business in Tver which she built from scratch with no help from anyone, and she has now closed that business and has taken other employment while we wait.  I have to give her a lot of credit here, because I knew that it was not an easy thing for her to give up what took her so long to build.  But as I have told her many times, I know that she will be just as successful here in the US.  And her son, well, he plans on becoming a Doctor and that makes both of us very proud. 

And not one time in two years has she ever asked me for money, or clothes, or gifts.  Why, because she is not that way.  As many of you know, there are woman just like this out there, you just need to seperate the wheat from the chafe.

If you asked me how many letters have I written to her these past two years, well it was once per week for the first six months, three times a week for the next six months, and for the past year once per day, as well as two phone calls per week.  So for those of you who are undecided on what avenue to pursue, I can only say, use the intelligence that God gave you and listen to your heart. And please, listen and learn from what the guys here post.  I do not know it all, but I sure have learned a lot since I have become a member of this board.

Noleman

 

 

 

[KenC]

Great story Noleman!  Thanks for sharing and the best of luck to you.

KenC