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Author Topic: Ukraine rejects EU  (Read 26303 times)

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Offline Muzh

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Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2013, 09:38:28 AM »
Quote from: Article from Boe

Berlin, London and Paris have plenty of diplomats who know how to play dirty.Former Communist EU countries, such as Estonia or Poland, also know how to do business in the east.

But between them, EU leaders did not muster the political will to fight for Ukraine.


Why does the EU has to fight for Ukraine? Why is it that Ukrainians do not fight for themselves?
 
Basically, the Ukies are still waiting for someone to fight for their own battles.
 
Last night my wife was talking to her sister. I asked her what she thought of the protests.
 
The usual. Nothing will happen.
 
So I said something along the lines that people should do something and push the issue. Her reply:
 
Oh, and then get shot?
 
I asked her, Who should get shot then?
 
Okay, let's change the subject.
 
Yanukonvikt and his thugs know this. Nothing will change.
 
Sorry, my mistake. Somethings will change. Like Yanukonvikt overseas bank account getting bigger.
"Mr Putin is discovering that global finance is more frightened of the US Securities and Exchange Commission than Russian T90 tanks."

Offline Muzh

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Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2013, 09:40:21 AM »
Read the rather lengthy article . . .

What the President of Ukraine did was shameful.  Further, many in Ukraine's east, especially the young people really wanted this.  Unlike Kuchma, this President doesn't have a solid base of support and is not percieved as asuccessful leader.

Rejecting EU association is ine thing, but using such negotiations to persoanlly enrich oneslef is shameful.  This is not over nor will it end well for the current president.  You reap what you sow.

Dude, wake up and smell the coffee.
"Mr Putin is discovering that global finance is more frightened of the US Securities and Exchange Commission than Russian T90 tanks."

Offline Belvis

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Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2013, 01:31:05 PM »
O.K., view on this issue from Russia, in pictures and video


Inscription on the stone:  Choose  your path, pal

Ukrainians hope the association with EU will change their life, somehow. Protests in Kiev:





I believe it does not matter much, association with EU or trade union with Russia. What counts, it is lawfulness, oppression of corruption, labour discipline. Without these factors, Ukrainians are doomed to the fate as shown in this video about former math teacher from Lviv:

Offline sleepycat

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Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2013, 07:30:54 PM »
Have a good trip-- and remember to keep us informed!! :)

Arrived in Kharkov on Friday night, after having to change planes three times for this trip.
Luggage arrived intact so biggest hurdle cleared.
Temperature about 2 degrees at night, cold but survivable.

Online JayH

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Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2013, 07:47:39 PM »
Arrived in Kharkov on Friday night, after having to change planes three times for this trip.
Luggage arrived intact so biggest hurdle cleared.
Temperature about 2 degrees at night, cold but survivable.

That was good lol!! Start a thread specific to your expedition !! :clapping:

I was reading of a guy who is staying in Kiev and he saw protests close up-- he thought all quite exciting !!
« Last Edit: November 29, 2013, 07:49:25 PM by JayH »
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline onus

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Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2013, 09:45:08 PM »
Such a shame. Oh well.

Enjoy a few more decades as a political pawn of Russia Ukraine. But whats a few years after centuries right ;)

I don't know the political mindset of Ukrainians so i can't comment on that.

I can't imagine it does Ukrainians much good. Countries that broke away have or are doing much better than those aligned to Russia.

Russia's economy is heading to another recession and Europe is just starting to get out of one. Seems like a no brainier which i would choose.

But, change will be tough but in the long run lives will improve dramatically.

Offline lordtiberius

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Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2013, 12:16:17 PM »
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/01/world/europe/ukraine-protests.html?_r=0

Every Westerner of good will should stand with the Ukrainian people.

Offline Shadow

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Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2013, 01:08:39 PM »
Such a shame. Oh well.

Enjoy a few more decades as a political pawn of Russia Ukraine. But whats a few years after centuries right ;)

I don't know the political mindset of Ukrainians so i can't comment on that.

I can't imagine it does Ukrainians much good. Countries that broke away have or are doing much better than those aligned to Russia.

Russia's economy is heading to another recession and Europe is just starting to get out of one. Seems like a no brainier which i would choose.

But, change will be tough but in the long run lives will improve dramatically.
Which countries are doing better?
No it is not a dog. Its really how I look.  ;)

Offline lordtiberius

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Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2013, 01:56:26 PM »
Poland for starters is but one. 

But that is besides the point.  The point is that the people of Ukraine want to be in the EU.  Shouldn't the people decide their own destiny?



The men terrorizing these protestors are not the local police, but the Berkat from Crimea.  This is a local police man.



Offline Boethius

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Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2013, 03:35:28 PM »
The point is that the people of Ukraine want to be in the EU.  Shouldn't the people decide their own destiny?


No they don't.  The split is 50/50.
"Without religion there is no morality, and without morality there is no law." - Lord Denning

Offline lordtiberius

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Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2013, 03:52:48 PM »
The President of Ukraine has beaten his own citizens in the street.  Over 30 arrested, 6 missing, 1 rumored dead.

I urge my fellow Americans to take up the cause:
http://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/impose-personal-sanctions-president-ukraine-viktor-yanukovych-and-cabinet-ministers-ukraine-members/h58Fz30V#thank-you=p

Online JayH

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Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2013, 04:00:58 PM »

No they don't.  The split is 50/50.

Where do you see the split-- everyone over 45  for Russia--- everyone under 45 for EU !!
Something like that!!!! ;D
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline lordtiberius

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Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2013, 04:04:30 PM »
Regions party members are leaving his party.  How does Putin's agreement help the common man or even the older couple?

Offline Boethius

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Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2013, 04:07:14 PM »

Where do you see the split-- everyone over 45  for Russia--- everyone under 45 for EU !!Something like that!!!! ;D


I read recent polling data.  The split was more along the lines of region.  The West/Central Ukraine favoured the EU, the East and South, which trade more with Russia, favoured the Customs Union.

I think a trade agreement with the EU will eventually be back on the table.  It was short term economics, and political survival, that were behind this result.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 04:10:31 PM by Boethius »
"Without religion there is no morality, and without morality there is no law." - Lord Denning


Offline Chelseaboy

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Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #40 on: November 30, 2013, 04:44:11 PM »
I really don't see any benefit to existing EU members in the EU embracing Ukraine and bringing them into our fold..it'll just be another country like Greece poncing bail-outs off the rest of us...more trouble than they're worth.
 
Let the Russians have them,it's a pity they didn't want Bulgaria and Rumania too.
Just saying it like it is.

Offline Boethius

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Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #41 on: November 30, 2013, 04:46:16 PM »
The Association Agreement was not about adding Ukraine as an EU member.  It was about trade.
"Without religion there is no morality, and without morality there is no law." - Lord Denning

Offline Chelseaboy

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Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #42 on: November 30, 2013, 04:50:08 PM »
I know that,but it will be the start of the slippery slope toward full EU membership in the future.
Just saying it like it is.

Offline Boethius

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Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #43 on: November 30, 2013, 04:53:48 PM »
Not necessarily.  However, you can't really compare Bulgaria and Romania.  The EU's issues with those countries are predominantly with Roma populations.
"Without religion there is no morality, and without morality there is no law." - Lord Denning

Offline cc3

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Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #44 on: November 30, 2013, 04:55:21 PM »


I read recent polling data.  The split was more along the lines of region.  The West/Central Ukraine favoured the EU, the East and South, which trade more with Russia, favoured the Customs Union.

I think a trade agreement with the EU will eventually be back on the table.  It was short term economics, and political survival, that were behind this result.


The Berkut storm troopers were bussed in from the east (Luhansk) and south (Krim).

Offline lordtiberius

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Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #45 on: November 30, 2013, 05:13:19 PM »
The east supports the EU deal.  There will be a revolution over this. 

Online calmissile

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Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #46 on: November 30, 2013, 05:26:45 PM »
The Berkut storm troopers were bussed in from the east (Luhansk) and south (Krim).

So who are the Burkut storm troopers?   I failed to see that explained.  Who is paying them to beat up the protesters?  Is it a police force or are they there because of idiology and support the Russian side of the argument?
« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 05:40:10 PM by calmissile »
Doug (Calmissile)

Online JayH

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Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #47 on: November 30, 2013, 05:35:52 PM »
The Police were active in preventing buses leaving many cities around Ukraine. Threatening bus companies ,stopping buses on the road etc with bogus issues . This was widespread tactit to prevent protest numbers swelling.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 06:04:45 PM by JayH »
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Online calmissile

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Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #48 on: November 30, 2013, 05:45:52 PM »
The Police were active in preventing buses leaving many cities around Ukraine. Threatening bus companies ,stopping buses on the road etc with bogus issues . This was widespread tacit to prevent protest numbers swelling.

So, is it fair to say that the current president and his party are doing this to silence the protesters because the president favors the Russian CU option?

My wife tells me that the police are beating the protesters violently.  She will not go anywhere near the city center.
Doug (Calmissile)

Offline cc3

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Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #49 on: November 30, 2013, 05:55:10 PM »
I really don't see any benefit to existing EU members in the EU embracing Ukraine and bringing them into our fold..it'll just be another country like Greece poncing bail-outs off the rest of us...more trouble than they're worth.
 
Let the Russians have them,it's a pity they didn't want Bulgaria and Rumania too.

Yeah, and only Nigel Farage and UKIP can save UK from being digested by the pseudo-USSR: the EU. (It's actually more socialistic and communist than Russia).

 

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