It appears you have not registered with our community. To register please click here ...

!!

Welcome to Russian Women Discussion - the most informative site for all things related to serious long-term relationships and marriage to a partner from the Former Soviet Union countries!

Please register (it's free!) to gain full access to the many features and benefits of the site. Welcome!

+-

Author Topic: Ukraine rejects EU  (Read 26304 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline cc3

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 908
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Married 0-2 years
  • Trips: Resident
Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #50 on: November 30, 2013, 06:00:04 PM »
So who are the Burkut storm troopers?   I failed to see that explained.  Who is paying them to beat up the protesters?  Is it a police force or are they there because of idiology and support the Russian side of the argument?

http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/Ukraine/Default.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkut_%28Ukraine%29

Offline Manny

  • Commercial Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 677
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Common Sense
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: Married > 10 years
  • Trips: > 10
Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #51 on: November 30, 2013, 06:32:24 PM »
A sigh of relief for many searching for a Ukrainian bride I guess. If the day ever does come when Ukraine joins the EU the "Ukrainian brides" thing will vanish over night, just like it has for Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania.
So plenty of time to visit those villages still 8)


Exactly right.


Furthermore, the EU doesn't want [and cannot afford] another lame duck; which Ukraine is.
Purveyor of common sense. Resist the propaganda.

Offline Manny

  • Commercial Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 677
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Common Sense
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: Married > 10 years
  • Trips: > 10
Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #52 on: November 30, 2013, 06:34:33 PM »
I really don't see any benefit to existing EU members in the EU embracing Ukraine and bringing them into our fold..it'll just be another country like Greece poncing bail-outs off the rest of us...more trouble than they're worth.
 
Let the Russians have them,it's a pity they didn't want Bulgaria and Romania too.


Agree completely.


The sooner we have a referendum and get out the better. Then we can sit on the sidelines smiling like Switzerland and Norway.
Purveyor of common sense. Resist the propaganda.

Online calmissile

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3125
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Married 3-5 years
  • Trips: 4 - 10
Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #53 on: November 30, 2013, 07:26:05 PM »
http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/Ukraine/Default.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkut_%28Ukraine%29

Thanks for posting the links.  It makes a lot more sense now.

Seems that this quote might have something to do with it.     ;D

"According to Taras Kuzio (as stated in November 2012) in recent years the force has been increasingly used to intimidate anti-government demonstrators and to influence the electoral process.[2]"

Doug (Calmissile)

Offline The Natural

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1418
  • Country: no
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: Married 0-2 years
  • Trips: 4 - 10
Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #54 on: November 30, 2013, 07:37:16 PM »

Agree completely.


The sooner we have a referendum and get out the better. Then we can sit on the sidelines smiling like Switzerland and Norway.

Don't know about Switzerland, but the folks in Norway ain't smiling because even though we're not a member of the EU, the politicians in charge made a deal with them that make us follow most of their idiotic rules anyway.

Offline lordtiberius

  • Banned Member
  • *
  • Posts: 0
Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #55 on: November 30, 2013, 08:13:50 PM »

Agree completely.


The sooner we have a referendum and get out the better. Then we can sit on the sidelines smiling like Switzerland and Norway.

No one is stopping you from leaving.  These people want to trade within Europe.  They don't want to be slaves to oligarchs.  Men like JayH and Jone sympathize with their desires and I salute them for it.

Offline Boethius

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12706
  • Country: 00
  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: No Selection
  • Trips: No Selection
Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #56 on: November 30, 2013, 10:19:19 PM »
The Berkut storm troopers were bussed in from the east (Luhansk) and south (Krim).

I read that this is inaccurate.  It does not make sense that troops would be brought in from elsewhere, given there are seven or eight permanent bases, dating back to Soviet times (I can locate 4 off the top of my head) in Kyiv, as the capital, though they were renamed during so called perestroika.


I believe this is disinformation, planted by those who wish to play regions against each other.


Khreshchatyk is probably the most security camera intense street in all of Ukraine.  There is no action on Maidan that cannot be reviewed by security cameras.  Most of that, too, harkens back to Soviet times.  Most of the lamp posts on Khreshchatyk either contain security cameras or listening devices.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 10:37:59 PM by Boethius »
"Without religion there is no morality, and without morality there is no law." - Lord Denning

Offline lordtiberius

  • Banned Member
  • *
  • Posts: 0
Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #57 on: November 30, 2013, 10:44:27 PM »
I read that this is inaccurate.  It does not make sense that troops would be brought in from elsewhere, given there are seven or eight permanent bases, dating back to Soviet times (I can locate 4 off the top of my head) in Kyiv, as the capital, though they were renamed during so called perestroika.


I believe this is disinformation, planted by those who wish to play regions against each other.


Khreshchatyk is probably the most security camera intense street in all of Ukraine.  There is no action on Maidan that cannot be reviewed by security cameras.  Most of that, too, harkens back to Soviet times.  Most of the lamp posts on Khreshchatyk either contain security cameras or listening devices.

Do you have any evidence that the Berkat are not from Luhansk and Crimea?  If so, please post.  Thanks

Offline Boethius

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12706
  • Country: 00
  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: No Selection
  • Trips: No Selection
Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #58 on: November 30, 2013, 11:06:21 PM »
If you watched the link I provided upthread, you would have seen forces interacting with the crowd, as well as an SBU van attacked in real time.  Some have been taped if you want to go back and watch them.  In both cases, authority figures spoke, or more appropriately, shouted, and all had local accents, for one thing.


I'm not saying there weren't forces from other areas brought in as reinforcements, just that local forces predominated.

There is a detailed report on the events in both the Ukrainian and Russian press.  This started when two Polish protesters threw smoke bombs into police lines.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 12:19:51 AM by Boethius »
"Without religion there is no morality, and without morality there is no law." - Lord Denning

Offline mendeleyev

  • RWD Advisor
  • *****
  • Posts: 5464
  • Country: ru
  • Gender: Male
    • Mendeleyev Journal
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: No Selection
  • Trips: Resident
Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #59 on: December 01, 2013, 12:00:40 AM »
Unconfirmed sources are saying that Moscow may be overseeing the police and dispersal of civilians. If true, watch for more physical crackdowns.

Under CU rules, Moscow heads police and defense policy for all member states. They've not inked agreements yet but according to some the protests spooked Yanukonvict and he may have asked the Kremlin for advice although I can't understand a coal mining thug would need advice. Let Kuchma's hatchet man and now PM handle it.

There is always the option that Moscow wanted to direct and make a quiet but recognizable statement.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 12:09:03 AM by mendeleyev »
The Mendeleyev Journal. http://mendeleyevjournal.com Member: Congress of Russian Journalists; ЖУРНАЛИСТЫ.RU (Journalist-Russia); ЖУРНАЛИСТЫ.UA (Journalist-Ukraine); ЖУРНАЛИСТЫ.KZ (Journalist-Kazakhstan); ПОРТАЛ ЖУРНАЛИСТОВ (Portal of RU-UA Journalists); Просто Журналисты ("Just Journalists").

Offline Boethius

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12706
  • Country: 00
  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: No Selection
  • Trips: No Selection
Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #60 on: December 01, 2013, 12:18:36 AM »
TBH, I would be surprised were Moscow involved. 

Having listened to reports from the crowds, they said that once the special forces came in, they were brutal and starting beating peaceful demonstrators.


These actions remind me very much of the Toronto G-20 protests.  Those were violent in suppression also, after the first day of the summit, after a police car was set on fire.  Innocent civilians were beaten, many arrested and held in jails for 24 hours on no charge, and for no reason.  The difference is, in Toronto, after relentless reporting in the press, and investigation by the Civil Liberties Union (yup, the same type of group most here disdain), a few officers were charged for illegally beating innocents. 


Here is one story:


http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/09/12/g20_assault_trial_guilty_verdict_for_officer_who_hit_adam_nobody.html

« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 12:25:13 AM by Boethius »
"Without religion there is no morality, and without morality there is no law." - Lord Denning

Offline lordtiberius

  • Banned Member
  • *
  • Posts: 0
Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #61 on: December 01, 2013, 12:25:18 AM »
According to the wiki CC3 posted there is one regiment from Crimea and one in Kiev. 

http://rt.com/news/ukraine-yanukovich-violence-protests-534/
http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2013_11_25/Protesters-clash-with-police-near-central-government-office-in-Kiev-6499/
http://en.apa.az/xeber_what_happened_in_kiev_s_maidan__-__span__203506.html

Quote
Oleh Tiahnybok, leader of Svoboda, also reported on his Facebook page that some units were bused in from Luhansk in eastern Ukraine. The police denied busing in any special units from Crimea

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/police-protesters-provoked-violence-332690.html

An official denial from the regional spokesman:

http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/176991.html

Online JayH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4606
  • Country: au
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Looking > 5 years
  • Trips: > 10
Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #62 on: December 01, 2013, 01:11:56 AM »
« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 01:18:50 AM by JayH »
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline Manny

  • Commercial Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 677
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Common Sense
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: Married > 10 years
  • Trips: > 10
Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #63 on: December 01, 2013, 03:37:48 AM »

Don't know about Switzerland, but the folks in Norway ain't smiling because even though we're not a member of the EU, the politicians in charge made a deal with them that make us follow most of their idiotic rules anyway.


Perhaps, but the UK pays 53m a day to be in it; hopefully your politicians are not dumb enough to sign you up for that up there.
Purveyor of common sense. Resist the propaganda.

Offline Shadow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8811
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
    • Family Fireplace
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: Married 3-5 years
  • Trips: 4 - 10
Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #64 on: December 01, 2013, 03:50:11 AM »

Perhaps, but the UK pays 53m a day to be in it; hopefully your politicians are not dumb enough to sign you up for that up there.
I am sure your business would flourish more if you would need to add 5 custom procedures.
No it is not a dog. Its really how I look.  ;)

Offline BillyB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10242
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • Good Story
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Married 5-10 years
  • Trips: > 10
Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #65 on: December 01, 2013, 11:14:17 AM »
Yanukonvict



If the convict in jail won the election instead of this convict, she would have signed on with EU.


I predict the Ukrainian people making some noise for a few weeks and they'll get tired. Until they are ready to go to war over their beliefs as those who done in the Arab Spring, they are going to get more of the same from their government.
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Offline mendeleyev

  • RWD Advisor
  • *****
  • Posts: 5464
  • Country: ru
  • Gender: Male
    • Mendeleyev Journal
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: No Selection
  • Trips: Resident
Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #66 on: December 01, 2013, 11:15:46 AM »
Interesting perspective from this blogger in Kyiv. Check out the approximate ages of the protesters in his photo.

Translation:
I want our Russian friends to understand that this protest is not against Russia. We love you -- you are our brothers. Our protest is against the entire system of corruption. Thus there is no split of Ukraine (I didn't support the Orange Revolution in 2004).

I was born in Russia and many of my relatives and friends are in Russia. Hopefully they will understand that this revolution is not against Russia and Russians. This time all thinking people have taken to the streets.

Sincerely, Maxim Mikhaylenko, citizen of Ukraine.


http://sadalskij.livejournal.com/1524174.html
The Mendeleyev Journal. http://mendeleyevjournal.com Member: Congress of Russian Journalists; ЖУРНАЛИСТЫ.RU (Journalist-Russia); ЖУРНАЛИСТЫ.UA (Journalist-Ukraine); ЖУРНАЛИСТЫ.KZ (Journalist-Kazakhstan); ПОРТАЛ ЖУРНАЛИСТОВ (Portal of RU-UA Journalists); Просто Журналисты ("Just Journalists").

Offline Manny

  • Commercial Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 677
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Common Sense
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: Married > 10 years
  • Trips: > 10
Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #67 on: December 01, 2013, 04:54:04 PM »
I am sure your business would flourish more if you would need to add 5 custom procedures.


We sell a lot to Norway and the US. What's a CN22 form? It takes moments.
Purveyor of common sense. Resist the propaganda.

Offline Manny

  • Commercial Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 677
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Common Sense
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: Married > 10 years
  • Trips: > 10
Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #68 on: December 01, 2013, 04:55:43 PM »
Yeah, and only Nigel Farage and UKIP can save UK from being digested by the pseudo-USSR: the EU. (It's actually more socialistic and communist than Russia).


Not often an American has such a sharp grasp of UK politics.
Purveyor of common sense. Resist the propaganda.

Offline cc3

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 908
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Married 0-2 years
  • Trips: Resident
Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #69 on: December 01, 2013, 06:40:38 PM »
Nigel Farage is the hope of the non-islamic civilized world, NOT Tsar Vlad.

Offline TomT

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 592
Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #70 on: December 01, 2013, 06:48:12 PM »
Where do you see the split-- everyone over 45  for Russia--- everyone under 45 for EU !!
Something like that!!!!


The figures below were taken from the Kiev Post.

"... EU... 52% of the respondents aged from 18 to 29...
... [EU]... 41 percent of the respondents aged from 30 to 39...
... Customs Union... 41 percent of the respondents aged from 50 to 59...
... [Customs Union]... 42% of the respondents aged from 60 to 69...
... [Customs Union]... 48 percent of the respondents older than 70..."

No, nothing like that. There was no difference between the 30-39 age group and the 50-59 age group.

Offline lordtiberius

  • Banned Member
  • *
  • Posts: 0
Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #71 on: December 01, 2013, 06:59:11 PM »

Anti-Americanism is alive and well

Offline lordtiberius

  • Banned Member
  • *
  • Posts: 0
Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #72 on: December 01, 2013, 09:19:49 PM »
The protestors beat up 8 Berkats and seized the Lenin statue.  They occupy city hall.  Lytenko is calling these rallies revolution.  And we are discussing British politics.  At least Putin is winning somewhere

Offline lordtiberius

  • Banned Member
  • *
  • Posts: 0
Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #73 on: December 03, 2013, 02:01:54 PM »

The figures below were taken from the Kiev Post.

"... EU... 52% of the respondents aged from 18 to 29...
... [EU]... 41 percent of the respondents aged from 30 to 39...
... Customs Union... 41 percent of the respondents aged from 50 to 59...
... [Customs Union]... 42% of the respondents aged from 60 to 69...
... [Customs Union]... 48 percent of the respondents older than 70..."

No, nothing like that. There was no difference between the 30-39 age group and the 50-59 age group.



Quote

http://gokiev.info/culture/ukrainians-want-association-with-eu/

According to a survey conducted by GfK Ukraine in October, 45% of Ukrainians want the signature of an Association Agreement with the European Union. Meanwhile, accession to the Customs Union is supported by only 14% of those surveyed.


The survey also found that the signing of the Association Agreement with the EU is supported by 47% of Party of Regions voters, 70% supporters of Batkivshchyna Party, 63% UDAR Party, and only 2% Communist Party of Ukraine.

The survey was conducted October 2-15, 2013.

Offline TomT

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 592
Re: Ukraine rejects EU
« Reply #74 on: December 03, 2013, 04:22:18 PM »
A poll with fewer than a thousand respondents is junk and one which doesn't state the number of respondents is less than junk, no matter how large a font size that you choose. 

 

+-RWD Stats

Members
Total Members: 9653
Latest: gdh77
New This Month: 12
New This Week: 2
New Today: 2
Stats
Total Posts: 460752
Total Topics: 18542
Most Online Today: 1267
Most Online Ever: 2127
(March 20, 2014, 11:07:42 PM)
Users Online
Members: 33
Guests: 1229
Total: 1262

+-Recent Posts

Sevastopol story by Wayne
Today at 08:28:47 AM

Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies by Boethius
Today at 03:42:00 AM

Re: More Bad News for Russia by Yes
Today at 02:10:01 AM

Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies by Yes
Today at 01:29:31 AM

Re: More Bad News for Russia by JayH
Yesterday at 09:10:19 PM

Re: Second trip to Kharkov by Anotherkiwi
Yesterday at 05:17:31 PM

Re: Man ask to living at Russia with me by mhr7
Yesterday at 05:14:58 PM

Re: Man ask to living at Russia with me by Anotherkiwi
Yesterday at 05:05:21 PM

Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies by Sting23
Yesterday at 04:55:09 PM

Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies by msmob
Yesterday at 03:13:57 PM

Powered by EzPortal