Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?

[Gator]

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Yes, its China and the improvement likely results from their draconian quarantine methods.  Such would be a hard sell  in America, yet partial implementation  would help to reduce the spread.   

China also mobilized and expanded its healthcare resources, and the good news in America is that we are also achieving the same, e. g., deployment of military resources, expanded manufacturing of medical supplies by business. 

China did not have meds, and the early promise of the existing malaria med hydroxychloroquine as an effective  therapeutic drug would be a game changer for America.  There are many other initiatives in America on a thousand fronts. 

Is it time to celebrate?  Not yet.   However, mark me down as optimistic. 
           

[msmob]

Plenty of construction is vital. Washington State will probably model their Stay at Home order after California's which allow hardware stores to remain open and construction work to continue.

Disagree.. What is vital, other then stopping the spread of the contagion ..?

These are decisions all made by Democrats, not Trump. If you call to fix a gas leak, water leak, or sewer clog, do you think us construction workers can repair them from our homes through a computer? Would you prefer to let us construction workers stay safe at home while your gas leak?

These are utilities workers, to me ... not construction .. THEY are vital - as you state...as are those running utilities, food distribution and health care

 





http://www.chicagobusiness.com/commercial-real-estate/coronavirus-wont-stop-chicagos-construction-industry

[BillyB]

Well now that Trump has laid out his objectives we shall see how it is implemented.  It sounds like he wants to open up the country in a few weeks.  From my view, we won't have made the necessary sacrifice so by opening up we will pay dearly in terms of deaths but I think he has already calculated that in and has determined that it is the best option. 

Fathertime! 

Keep in mind, he also said State and local leaders should make their own decisions within their jurisdictions knowing a one size solution doesn't fit for all of America. If a region in America gets an outbreak, it should be locked down but the rest of America can continue to function.

http://www.biospace.com/article/stop-the-conspiracy-theories-novel-coronavirus-has-natural-origin/

http://www.health24.com/Medical/Infectious-diseases/Coronavirus/new-coronavirus-is-not-man-made-new-study-confirms-20200319


I am surprised that I am just now reading that Corona was not made in a lab in China or Canada.

Why hasn't TV news reported this before . . . or have I just missed it ?

I had time to read those two links and I'm not impressed. Both links leads to the Nature Medicine article below.

http://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

Our comparison of alpha- and betacoronaviruses identifies two notable genomic features of SARS-CoV-2: (i) on the basis of structural studies7,8,9 and biochemical experiments1,9,10

The authors of the article didn't do the studies and experiments but relied on studies and experiments performed by others noted in the referenced numbers. If you look at the bottom of the web link, much of the information they rely on comes from China.

Plants want to live like you and I. They grow thorns, tough skins, and taste bitter to discouraged other living things from eating them. The wheat we grow is different than the wheat the Romans ate. We breed fruits and vegetables to have less thorns, be bigger, less bitter, and appealing in color. Some of these experiments happen in laboratories. We can breed animals and other living things too until we get the results we want. Labs that create biological weapons aren't much different. They can try to genetically mutate a virus or inject the virus in many animals and allow it to mutate naturally within animals bodies until they find the toughest most dangerous strain to use in war.

This new coronavirus has never been found in an animal. Not in a snake pen, not in a cave of bats, or herd of camels. There hasn't been an animal on earth found that carried the virus and gave it to humans. What's the sense of exterminating the virus from our bodies when the killer is running loose in an animal only kill again? There should be a massive manhunt for the animal source that started this. I can't stress enough the importance of finding the source because even if we are successful in beating the virus out of every human body, we can experience this again if the animals that's carrying the virus aren't exterminated. It's costing lives, and we are going to spend untold trillions, and years to fight this virus. Isn't it worth spending a few billion dollars to fund the largest manhunt in history to find the source? If China didn't spend any money, manhours, and effort to find the animal source, they know where it came from.

Disagree.. What is vital, other then stopping the spread of the contagion ..?

Stopping the virus in round 1 is not possible. We are limiting the damage. Stopping construction hurts the economy. There are two things getting damaged here, lives and economy. Construction workers often work outside and they don't work within kissing distance of each other so they are low risk for getting infected. Bars are closed so that helps.

These are utilities workers, to me ... not construction .. THEY are vital - as you state...as are those running utilities, food distribution and health care

Government utility companies do not fix things in your house. Leaky water pipe, call a plumber. Electrical problem, call an electrician. Sewer line broke in your yard, call a private underground utility company. All are construction workers. Photo of the large building and crane in Chicago is done by private contractors. There is huge dollars in construction projects that rack up interest. Best to keep those projects moving along to help the economy. Don't be jealous the government considers me as important as firefighters, police, medical workers and cashiers at the food market in the frontline battle against the virus 

[jone]

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Yes, its China and the improvement likely results from their draconian quarantine methods.  Such would be a hard sell  in America, yet partial implementation  would help to reduce the spread.   

China also mobilized and expanded its healthcare resources, and the good news in America is that we are also achieving the same, e. g., deployment of military resources, expanded manufacturing of medical supplies by business. 

China did not have meds, and the early promise of the existing malaria med hydroxychloroquine as an effective  therapeutic drug would be a game changer for America.  There are many other initiatives in America on a thousand fronts. 

Is it time to celebrate?  Not yet.   However, mark me down as optimistic. 
           

Sorry, Gator,

But I take everything China says with a grain of salt.  Officials have been lying to us since the outbreak.   Do you recall when they were saying that it could not be transmitted person to person?

While National Review is a conservative media outlet, I see no reason not believe what they have written.

http://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/chinas-devastating-lies/

My take is that there is still fallout and that the death toll is about ten times what they have reported.

There is a reason that Western news journalists were kicked out of China.  I think China's even done a number on the WHO.

[BillyB]

Some people say the virus was out before December in China, much earlier than China is claiming. Many of you heard about lower level Chinese officials recently accusing the American Army of releasing the virus into Wuhan. We simply dismissed this accusation but the statement made by China is an indirect admission the virus was around in October 2019 when America sent over 170 military personnel to participate in the Military World Games held in Wuhan. In the middle of November, my uncle and other tourists were touring China by train and was supposed to make a scheduled stop in Wuhan. The Chinese military stopped their train and told them to go around the city.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Military_World_Games

China got 133 gold medals and the most medals overall and America got zero gold medals and placed 35th in the medal count.

[BC]

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Gator,

China is an apple with every other country a different fruit.

If the data in the chart is accurate (I'm just saying not doubting) one has to weigh their containment efforts vs that of others.  Still talking many months.  If signs that Italy has peaked, I expect another two months of containment then very gradual lifting and testing of the general population thereafter to last well into next year.

Those like Italy have a much higher percentage of the population infected.  This not only results in a higher number of deaths but would also prolong the period to reach the zero point as infections will continue.

So without hermetic containment, but with some efforts being made, one could expect the peak to be spread, but also that the 'spread' (representing number of infections and time) to increase.

The graph seems to represent a period of 50 days, and containment still continues albeit somewhat loosened up for some.

Hydroxychloroquine and antibiotic combinations did have an effect on the viral load detected, but was not a randomized study, with only a limited number of participants, lasted 6 days and did not go on to determine the outcome and efficacy of a full treatment regime.  Of those that received hydroxychloroquine with or without antibiotics, some still went to ICU and at least one died.  Another could not tolerate the side effects and IIRC one dropped out.

Not trying to piss on your parade, but do recognize that there are those much smarter than us RWD MD's looking at all possibilities.  None have jumped for joy yet.

[BillyB]

one has to weigh their containment efforts vs that of others.

 Before the Jan 23 lockdown of Wuhan, their worst infected city, they allowed 5 million people to leave Wuhan and allowed 3 million people in. China allowed hundreds of millions of Chinese to crisscross all over China to celebrate New Year back home wherever that was to each person. With a population 23 times larger than Italy and allowing mass migration in January, they will end up with less infections and much less deaths than Italy. Do you want Italy to try what China did to keep their numbers low? Maybe they manipulated their numbers to make it look like they did a good job? I will admit the draconian style lockdown can be effective but what happened before that was reckless and the Chinese government should be charged with murder.

[BC]

Billy,

IIRC they closed down Hubei province.  Sure folks fled from the city into the province as much as they could.

[BC]

Yes, that would be ideal.    However, on the occasions of Trump's statements having unrealistic optimism...within a minute this happens .....
 
Yes, and his team quickly tempers his optimism to realistic levels (e. g., the status of using chloroquine). 

I wonder if the most important person on his team has been 'disappeared'...  Guess we will find out at today's conference.

[BillyB]

Billy,

IIRC they closed down Hubei province.  Sure folks fled from the city into the province as much as they could.

It was a multi step process. First shutdown of Wuhan Jan 23

http://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/23/wuhan-quarantine-shutting-down-a-city-five-times-the-size-of-london-102694

China widens travel restrictions to other cities in Hubei Jan 24. Going from Wuhan into Hubei is like jumping out of a pan into the fire. It's all bad. 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51230011

They knew this virus was out long before the 5 million people left the city and 3 million entered the city. Not all the citizens fled the city to get away from the Wuhan pneumonia. Some just wanted to travel to family elsewhere to celebrate New Year. The 3 million people working in other cities who came home to Wuhan for New Years had no idea there was a killer virus running loose since the government deletes any report about the virus on the internet.

[BC]

Do you want Italy to try what China did to keep their numbers low? Maybe they manipulated their numbers to make it look like they did a good job?

Has the US, albeit unintentional (will leave doubt to the conspiracy folks) kept the numbers artificially low by limited testing?  Untested deaths are not being counted and even many with symptoms at hospitals still going without.

[BC]

http://www.politico.com/interactives/2020/coronavirus-testing-by-state-chart-of-new-cases/

Is being updated live, shows the number of tests in each state and has a slider at the top so you can see how infections grow over time.

By the end of the day, the US will be Nr 1 in the world with active Covid cases, mostly in the northeast but moving fast to the south and west.

I can understand the US wants to get back to business for economic reasons, but without a coordinated nationwide shutdown, every major city can become the new hotspot like NYC.

Already some governors are saying they will keep shutdowns despite federal 'guidance' or even an all clear, but again their risk increases dramatically with every traveller from other states that have less stringent measures in place.

[fathertime]

I will admit the draconian style lockdown can be effective but what happened before that was reckless and the Chinese government should be charged with murder.

While we are charging China with murder we may as well charge Trump and the US government with murder also.  It appears the determination has been made that our economy is going to be more important than lives. So the US government is now playing god.

Fathertime! 

[fathertime]

Has the US, albeit unintentional (will leave doubt to the conspiracy folks) kept the numbers artificially low by limited testing?  Untested deaths are not being counted and even many with symptoms at hospitals still going without.

In my opinion yes. 

The bottom line will end up being how many unnecessary deaths were caused.  It seems to have been decided that the US economy is going to trump a few extra deaths, or perhaps a lot of extra deaths. 

Fathertime!   

[fathertime]

Keep in mind, he also said State and local leaders should make their own decisions within their jurisdictions knowing a one size solution doesn't fit for all of America. If a region in America gets an outbreak, it should be locked down but the rest of America can continue to function.

I'd say this is where leadership at the top in the US would play a bigger role.  At this point, It won't do California much good to lock down if Arizona doesn't, and it won't do Mississippi much good to lock if Louisiana doesn't lock down.   So there will be deaths, and perhaps a lot of them.  They could be prevented, but the US doesn't have the stomach to do it, the US isn't willing to make the sacrifice that other nations are attempting.  The US and the world will pay a consequence in deaths for our decision.  Down the line I won't be surprised if US travelers aren't wanted or quarantined in parts of the world.

Fathertime! 

[GQBlues]

I supposed trenchcoat and those who supported Brexit have a point in their sentiment about the ‘EU’s ineptness. What has it done for its member states? I can’t help but look at the dynamics of our federal, state, and local government function, then I look at the European mess.

I heard Italy’s request for aid fell on deaf ears. Sad. That union is as useless as the UN. Yeah, what the heck is that union doing about the current global condition too?

[GQBlues]

I'd say this is where leadership at the top in the US would play a bigger role.  At this point, It won't do California much good to lock down if Arizona doesn't, and it won't do Mississippi much good to lock if Louisiana doesn't lock down.   So there will be deaths, and perhaps a lot of them.  They could be prevented, but the US doesn't have the stomach to do it, the US isn't willing to make the sacrifice that other nations are attempting.  The US and the world will pay a consequence in deaths for our decision.  Down the line I won't be surprised if US travelers aren't wanted or quarantined in parts of the world.

Fathertime!

Wooo! Fathertime relax. You’re safe, man. Exhale a little. I’m seeing some serious paranoia in you. The virus won’t come knocking on your door. Trump will make sure if that. You’ve been wiggin’ out in us, man. Yeah

[fathertime]

Wooo! Fathertime relax. You’re safe, man. Exhale a little. I’m seeing some serious paranoia in you. The virus won’t come knocking on your door. Trump will make sure if that. You’ve been wiggin’ out in us, man. Yeah

You are 'seeing' nothing.  I'm not safe as nobody is, but that is the way of the world, and I've pretty much always accepted that.  Trump will see to nothing, his priority is to keep the economy strong at near all costs.  I'm going into work among the people as usual today wearing my stupid mask, and hoping for the best.  Many others are staying at home with behind a wall of toilet paper.   How about you? 

Fathertime! 

[GenMish]

Just went to the State Dept Website, the advice given Thursday not to travel abroad is more than advice,, Its a Level 4 Travel Warning. Further, all Americans abroad need to return home now, or they might be stuck for a long period of time. It appears to me the USA is gearing up for a full national lockdown that goes for months.
  If so, There goes my May trip to see my GF

U.S. Airlines Pondering Complete Shutdown of Commercial Flights

TheStreet.comMarch 24, 2020

[GQBlues]

You are 'seeing' nothing.  I'm not safe as nobody is, but that is the way of the world, and I've pretty much always accepted that.  Trump will see to nothing, his priority is to keep the economy strong at near all costs.  I'm going into work among the people as usual today wearing my stupid mask, and hoping for the best.  Many others are staying at home with behind a wall of toilet paper.   How about you? 

Fathertime!

Your hysterics is beyond belief! Literally comical now. You’re supposed to be the pillar of strength in your household you know. You’ll stress people around you needlessly to the point their immune level will be greatly compromised, man. Heck, they may even have heart attacks, heaven forbid, watching you wig out so much.

I’ve never seen such hysterics shown by a dude e-v-e-r. ‘Know what I mean?

Breathing exercise man. Take time out. Inhale-exhale-inhale-exhale repeat two more times. Alright? I’m about to head out to San Diego now so I won’t be here to watch over you for a bit. Just remember, inhale-exhale-inhale-exhale...

[Faux Pas]

I supposed trenchcoat and those who supported Brexit have a point in their sentiment about the ‘EU’s ineptness. What has it done for its member states? I can’t help but look at the dynamics of our federal, state, and local government function, then I look at the European mess.

I heard Italy’s request for aid fell on deaf ears. Sad. That union is as useless as the UN. Yeah, what the heck is that union doing about the current global condition too?

IMHO, the WHO information as an arm of the UN is as reliable as China. The EU has pretty much been MIA through Europe's entire ordeal. All of those member states should question what their membership has done for them

[fathertime]

Your hysterics is beyond belief! Literally comical now. You’re supposed to be the pillar of strength in your household you know. You’ll stress people around you needlessly to the point their immune level will be greatly compromised, man. Heck, they may even have heart attacks, heaven forbid, watching you wig out so much.

I’ve never seen such hysterics shown by a dude e-v-e-r. ‘Know what I mean?

Breathing exercise man. Take time out. Inhale-exhale-inhale-exhale repeat two more times. Alright? I’m about to head out to San Diego now so I won’t be here to watch over you for a bit. Just remember, inhale-exhale-inhale-exhale...

What a lame response!   Trying to make it personal because you have nothing else to say.   Members of my household are fine, and based in the risks of reality.  How about your household, you and your wife, hidden behind a wall of toilet paper, pretending to be forged in strength while keeping your distance from the rest of the world.   
Enjoy the BS of talk radio during your ride, and don't forget the economy is the choice trump has made, it has little to do with courage, but a lot to do with the bucks.  For better or worse that is reality. 

Fathertime!   

Fathertime!   

[fathertime]

What a complete failure!   My very old pops is in one of these places.  I visit almost every night at a safe distance as he cracks the window open.   I've learned that individuals need to actually be present in situations to prevent events like what the article shows happened in spain.  I'd have to ask, where were the adult children of the elderly?  Sadly caretakers sometimes only conduct minimum care if they feel they are held to account.  In this case, it looks like the elderly were just abandoned and left to choke to death alone.   
Spanish Rest Home Residents Found Abandoned, Dead In Their Beds

Elderly residents of Spanish retirement homes have been found abandoned or dead in their beds by soldiers who are helping during the coronavirus pandemic.

Spain Defense Minister Margarita Robles confirmed the discoveries at multiple establishments during an interview on Telecinco’s “El Programa de Ana Rosa” on Monday, reported El Pais. She vowed to bring “the full weight of the law” down on the home administrators “who don’t meet their obligations.”....

http://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/soldiers-retirement-home-coronavirus-spain-121524656.html 

[Trenchcoat]

Bargain!!! A great bargain was had today! Went to fill up my 20 litre petrol can I recently bought with unleaded petrol. When I got to my local ASDA filling station fuel had crashed from 114 - 116 pence per litre down to 1.02 pence per litre!

I noticed on the pump they only allowed 5 litre cans, but the filling station was quiet (no cars queuing behind me) so I got my can and I walked it to the rear of my car so to hide it from view from the kiosk. I then filled my car and the my 20 litre can without fuss. The woman in the kiosk was happily nattering away on the phone so the perfect distraction!

So got my fuel for far less than would have otherwise been the case. I can see fuel stations potentially being shut of to all but emergency services and lorries in the near future so thought best I got in now. Guessing petrol prices way down not only because of the Russian/Middle East thing but also this recent crash to the lockdown.

Great songs will no doubt be sung for generations to come of the good deal had this day!!!

[msmob]

I supposed trenchcoat and those who supported Brexit have a point in their sentiment about the ‘EU’s ineptness. What has it done for its member states? I can’t help but look at the dynamics of our federal, state, and local government function, then I look at the European mess.

I heard Italy’s request for aid fell on deaf ears. Sad. That union is as useless as the UN. Yeah, what the heck is that union doing about the current global condition too?

They didn't have any 'point' and don't have one, now ..

These are unique circumstances and I've observed my fellow villagers want to ban 'outsiders' from 'infecting us'...