Russian Women Discussion
RWD Discussion Groups => Experienced => Topic started by: Trenchcoat on December 27, 2018, 10:56:24 AM
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So quite a big part of me kind of takes to the idea of living in the FSU. I would of course still like time out from the FSU if I did, to go on holiday and back to my home country, the UK to see family, etc pareticularly if I found winter a bit harsh in the FSU during it's colder periods.
For me somewhere like Minsk appeals, Kyiv even Odessa might do if it were not for the situation with Russia out there. Russia could do also though I am not sure where there. There is of course always the long stay/temporary or permanent resident maybe even citizen visa hurdle to overcome for FSU countries and that is another matter.
For me though FSU countries have a lot going for it that western countries do not. If I bring in a independent income then that can relieve me of the need to work. That's not to say I wouldn't work or busy myself with something but it would be a choice and at a relaxed pace (hopefully). The big one of course and why we all go to the FSU is women :D My life loving in the FSU could become like paradise because of the women there. I even feel I have missed out on a large part of enjoying my younger years out there because I lacked the foresight or knowledge to consider going out to the FSU for the reason of its women.
Minsk then would likely be my preferred destination. It seems an orderly society (at present) in comparison to Ukraine and has interesting modern architecture. I am much into Architecture so it's nice to be somewhere in the FSU that is no so focused on the performing Arts/music - theatres, opera, ballet, etc which I am not into. I kind of like the crazyiness of Ukraine and it has a laid back feel most of the time and it's slightly anarchist vibe but that can be a negative as well as a positive and perhaps more problematic for long term living. I kind of also like smaller cities than say Moscow I think for the more relaxed pace of life I think and more intimate surroundings.
For me being able to be in the FSU where I could drum up girls all the time is hugely enticing over having to ration myself to a couple of visits or so limited visits per year.
How about others on here, anyone else consider living out in the FSU on a more longer term basis, if not all year then perhaps a large part of it?
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Taking in a lodger for your spare bedroom at £65 pw isn’t going to bring in the big bucks.
You’re a poor bloke at home and you’ll be a poor foreigner in the FSU.
Trench is drooling at the thought of all those lovely fsuw q-ing up to warm his bed.
Not going to happen....unless you’re paying for their services. Oh, I forgot, you cant afford to pay for it.
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Trench
WHY do you want to live in the FSU ?
How do you think you'll earn enough to get by ?
IF you are so 'worried about Russia' - be aware that President Lukashouldgo runs a police state and people get filmed and locked up for opposing his rule...
He's going to buck heads with Russia one day .. and probably lose ...as the Kremlin want BY 'back in the fold' .. he has plans for a dynasty and putting his son on the throne ;)
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The Slavic republics of the FSU have very macho cultures. You are romanticizing these countries unrealistically. You can’t live as cheaply as a locals and your primary advantage over local men is your ability to provide a woman with a comfortable lifestyle.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
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"
Anyone else here thinking off/dreaming off living in the FSU? "
I did!
guess what?
it wasn't a dream at all!
you have no idea how happy I was to LEAVE!
Trench, use your thoughts to figure out how to make more money!
would be more productive for you!
Trench,
whenever you think you've found a way to get "a free lunch"
it just means you don't understand that you're paying for it in "some other way"
think about it...
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If my wife was not able to join me for whatever reason, I was ready to move to RU despite some inconveniences.
Since my income is not dependent on where I live, doing so would have been economically feasible. I've lived in many different countries so have no fears of relocating. It would have been a bit tougher from the logistics standpoint but could have lived quite well, maybe.
It didn't happen that way so we're both fine where we are.
Without a decent (in western terms) steady income and well established connections? I'd be nuts to even think about it. To just go find a FSUW I'd be even more nuts.
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Taking in a lodger for your spare bedroom at £65 pw isn’t going to bring in the big bucks.
You’re a poor bloke at home and you’ll be a poor foreigner in the FSU.
Trench is drooling at the thought of all those lovely fsuw q-ing up to warm his bed.
Not going to happen....unless you’re paying for their services. Oh, I forgot, you cant afford to pay for it.
Come early August 2019 all being well I'll be able to rent out two decent rooms to Lodgers. Plus have a small one for myself. That will bring me in approximately £500 per month. Not a lot by UK standards but quite a lot by Belarus or Ukraine standards.
http://checkinprice.com/average-minimum-salary-kiev-ukraine/
As Krimster has stated I can hire a terp/proxy to do the initial rental apartment. Costs for food on the supermarket are the same for me as anyone else. Same for most other stuff. In addition I will have savings so no problemo :)
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Trench
WHY do you want to live in the FSU ?
How do you think you'll earn enough to get by ?
IF you are so 'worried about Russia' - be aware that President Lukashouldgo runs a police state and people get filmed and locked up for opposing his rule...
He's going to buck heads with Russia one day .. and probably lose ...as the Kremlin want BY 'back in the fold' .. he has plans for a dynasty and putting his son on the throne ;)
I don't oppose Lukashenko in power, I'm not interested in any of that as I'm not a native of the country. I couldn't really care who is in power my concern is elsewhere ;D
It's kind of like Muslim terrorists in this country. If you don't fall into the category they are interested in as you don't take part in those activities to them you don't exist and so not an issue.
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The Slavic republics of the FSU have very macho cultures. You are romanticizing these countries unrealistically. You can’t live as cheaply as a locals and your primary advantage over local men is your ability to provide a woman with a comfortable lifestyle.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
As a foreigner the girls will all assume I'm rich. As long as I don't show up looking poverty stricken they will all buy into that whatever my finances are like behind the scene :)
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Priceless !!!! Trench .. are you trying to entertain us ?
As a foreigner the girls will all assume I'm rich.
'SURE'..
Until you take 'em to a fast food place and ask them to 'go dutch'
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"
Anyone else here thinking off/dreaming off living in the FSU? "
I did!
guess what?
it wasn't a dream at all!
you have no idea how happy I was to LEAVE!
Trench, use your thoughts to figure out how to make more money!
would be more productive for you!
Trench,
whenever you think you've found a way to get "a free lunch"
it just means you don't understand that you're paying for it in "some other way"
think about it...
Yes, but you were also happy when you were there getting all the girls :D
Your pains were linked to getting screwed over. So much a case of accounting for situations you may be taken advantage off. So keeping material possessions low and relatively inexpensive. Keeping to safer areas and assessing and using safer choices will much reduce the risk. Making statements that will stand out like planting cherry trees of course is not a good idea as it will give you all the sort of attention you won't want.
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Trench,
the more I read your posts the more I wonder why I even bothered to post a reply.
Just do it and report back, but ya know I already know the answer as you'll still be sitting on the couch for a long time to come.
Clueless.... (being polite)
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Come early August 2019 all being well I'll be able to rent out two decent rooms to Lodgers. Plus have a small one for myself. That will bring me in approximately £500 per month. Not a lot by UK standards but quite a lot by Belarus or Ukraine standards.
http://checkinprice.com/average-minimum-salary-kiev-ukraine/
As Krimster has stated I can hire a terp/proxy to do the initial rental apartment. Costs for food on the supermarket are the same for me as anyone else. Same for most other stuff. In addition I will have savings so no problemo :)
Renting an apartment in the city centre will cost you north of £500 pm plus utilities.
You will be buying your food in the supermarket = costs more. Locals do a lot of shopping in the bazaar. I doubt you’ve ever been to one. So no, you can’t live as cheaply as local people do.
Even by Ukrainian standards you are poor. You won’t last a month on min wage in Kyiv.
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Renting an apartment in the city centre will cost you north of £500 pm plus utilities.
You will be buying your food in the supermarket = costs more. Locals do a lot of shopping in the bazaar. I doubt you’ve ever been to one. So no, you can’t live as cheaply as local people do.
Even by Ukrainian standards you are poor. You won’t last a month on min wage in Kyiv.
So, live in the outskirts of Minsk, that will hit the £200-300 mark. Supermarket food will do fine, sorted :)
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So, live in the outskirts of Minsk, that will hit the £200-300 mark. Supermarket food will do fine, sorted :)
Please do it and report back here how it went.. until then you don't need to post anything else, we are all dying to see you succeed as hell living as a local in Ukraine or Belarus..
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I lived in the FSU. Spent a month in Minsk - been there several times most recently in the summer; Ukraine a month ago.
Your fantasies are just a tad delusional. Not being negative just realistic.
Money -
500 quid is not rich. You will not be seen as rich. An apartment in the center will cost at least that much if not more. So you will essentially be a pauper in a foreign country. If you live on the outskirts women will wonder what the hell is wrong with you. That's where poor people live. It's more dangerous too. Getting someone to find you a place will cost money.
Don't forget dates cost money! You want to cut corners? You'll cut opportunities for yourself. And don't forget insurance! You'll want to have global medical coverage. That there will blow your budget.
You can probably live comfortably on 1,000 pounds/month but to be "rich" you'd really want at least 2,000/month in inexpensive cities. It is nothing in Moscow.
Language -
You have little or no language skills. It means you can't live like a local, it will be more expensive. You simply won't have the same options available and may end up paying more than locals for the same thing. If you take up language tuition that will eat into your budget - but I highly recommend formal tuition.
Architecture -
Minsk was razed in World War 2. So once you get outside of the center all you're really faced with is drab Soviet-era buildings and uninspiring post-Soviet architecture. A long weekend is enough to see the architecture. Similar could be said for most cities in Ukraine.
Long stay visas -
Unless you are studying at a university or have business interests then it's unlikely you will get a long stay visa in Belarus (or Ukraine). Depending on the type of visa you apply it can be relatively expensive.
You may not be profiled as a Muslim terrorist but you may still be targeted as a foreigner. Dirty cops are a dime a dozen. You may also come across locals trying or successfully ripping you off.
You're also forgetting the risk of having renters in your property. Will you have appropriate levels of insurance? Who will manage the property while you are away and how much will that cost? What happens if you cannot let it out or they abscond on a lease?
Not pissing on your parade but keeping your feet on the ground.
I'm trying to shape my lifestyle to spend time in Russia each year - but for reasons different than your own. When I'm working I pull in over 500 quid A DAY. So in a fortnight I can earn more than what you will for rent in a year. Get to that level then the world is your oyster.
Even if you're living in the FSU the maxim applies: no money no honey!
Footnote: I recommend guys wanting to marry a FSUW should go and study Russian in a FSU university - but you need the money to do it.
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I lived in the FSU. Spent a month in Minsk - been there several times most recently in the summer; Ukraine a month ago.
Your fantasies are just a tad delusional. Not being negative just realistic.
Money -
500 quid is not rich. You will not be seen as rich. An apartment in the center will cost at least that much if not more. So you will essentially be a pauper in a foreign country. If you live on the outskirts women will wonder what the hell is wrong with you. That's where poor people live. It's more dangerous too. Getting someone to find you a place will cost money.
Don't forget dates cost money! You want to cut corners? You'll cut opportunities for yourself. And don't forget insurance! You'll want to have global medical coverage. That there will blow your budget.
You can probably live comfortably on 1,000 pounds/month but to be "rich" you'd really want at least 2,000/month in inexpensive cities. It is nothing in Moscow.
Language -
You have little or no language skills. It means you can't live like a local, it will be more expensive. You simply won't have the same options available and may end up paying more than locals for the same thing. If you take up language tuition that will eat into your budget - but I highly recommend formal tuition.
Architecture -
Minsk was razed in World War 2. So once you get outside of the center all you're really faced with is drab Soviet-era buildings and uninspiring post-Soviet architecture. A long weekend is enough to see the architecture. Similar could be said for most cities in Ukraine.
Long stay visas -
Unless you are studying at a university or have business interests then it's unlikely you will get a long stay visa in Belarus (or Ukraine). Depending on the type of visa you apply it can be relatively expensive.
You may not be profiled as a Muslim terrorist but you may still be targeted as a foreigner. Dirty cops are a dime a dozen. You may also come across locals trying or successfully ripping you off.
You're also forgetting the risk of having renters in your property. Will you have appropriate levels of insurance? Who will manage the property while you are away and how much will that cost? What happens if you cannot let it out or they abscond on a lease?
Not pissing on your parade but keeping your feet on the ground.
I'm trying to shape my lifestyle to spend time in Russia each year - but for reasons different than your own. When I'm working I pull in over 500 quid A DAY. So in a fortnight I can earn more than what you will for rent in a year. Get to that level then the world is your oyster.
Even if you're living in the FSU the maxim applies: no money no honey!
Footnote: I recommend guys wanting to marry a FSUW should go and study Russian in a FSU university - but you need the money to do it.
Thanks for the info Rwd, I appreciate it. What job do you do?
Well, a couple of days ago I made a concerted effort to put more time into learning Russian. It's where I can see me getting a bit of extra leverage with the girls & the FSU countries. I'm concerntrating in speaking it better first then layer tackling the written side of Russian more.
A course in learning the Russian language might be worth me considering out there may be the least bother in terms of getting a visit etc.
many thanks.
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So just to sum up, I'll be looking for a flat in a decent part of the city, nearish the city centre. So just on the outskirts but not real far on the outskirts.
I don't mind what reason girls may want to meet me too much as it's all determining if there's genuine chemistry when you meet anyway. So no doubt the colour of my passport as much as money or whatever will play a part anyway. I'm pretty sure I can get girls to meet up so that shouldn't be a problem. After that it's all down to how long I would wish to stay in said country.
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"Yes, but you were also happy when you were there getting all the girls :D"
Trench, I was only able to engage in these activities AFTER I reached the pinnacle of my career and achieved professional AND financial independence
before that, I didn't have 10 minutes of time to spare...
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I'm answering this in case in the future someone really wants to do this.....trench you have to think what is your u s p. Finish your house. Put your belongings in the roof space. Rent out your house on a 6 month short hold tenancy. Rent apartment Minsk. You are 40 so can date maybe a 26 year old. Most Minsk girls are married with a kid by 22 or married or long term dating. So you have a small available pool of women who are single with no kids and you have no real u s p for these women. If you date someone with a child you have a much bigger pool of available dates you have the u s p of being a reliable partner and showing your potential as a life partner many women will then want to have a second child with you. You can have a really good life moving in with one of these girls or buy a little datcha together and grow your own food. Basically you can be a house husband. You will have a way better life than a relationship with a UK woman. Unfortunately you don't have the income for a playboy lifestyle and it leads to a meaningless life anyway. You write in some of your posts you want to start a family and in others you suggest you want to pipe the entire f s u. Rule of life chase many catch none. Remember women are 10 times more intuitive than men they can smell a player miles away. Stop thinking about money think u s p and who and why a woman would want you in her life and go find that woman.
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When I said grow vegetables and be a house husband I mean find a career girl from Minsk and you do all the house work so she comes back to relaxing home.
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Priceless !!!! Trench .. are you trying to entertain us ?
'SURE'..
Until you take 'em to a fast food place and ask them to 'go dutch'
We've got a really snazzy McDs here in Batumi, Republic of Georgia for that!
A few days I got an agreement with an Airbnb apartment owner I've rented from before. I am going to rent his apartment during the busy tourist season (May 1st through October). $350 a month plus utilities. This is considered top rent for a steady (and valued) renter here. I've put women on the back burner for now. I am working on health restoration, undistracted.
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When I said grow vegetables and be a house husband I mean find a career girl from Minsk and you do all the house work so she comes back to relaxing home.
Moby will probably say you shouldn't encourage him. I kind of like the idea.
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Get into the country immerse yourself. Russian in the shops and bus and tv no English you quickly learn. I'm writing this from the Ukraine while I look after a 5 year old while my g f is at work. This kind of relationship can work in the f s u it wouldn't work in the UK. I've done it in Minsk too but that relationship ended because their was no future of moving to UK and the ex husbands family was very heavily involved with the son of my then g f.
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How about others on here, anyone else consider living out in the FSU on a more longer term basis, if not all year then perhaps a large part of it?
Wouldn't you get bored? All your friends are in the UK
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Wouldn't you get bored? All your friends are in the UK
Trench doesn’t seem to be the type of person to have many friends.
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Get into the country immerse yourself. Russian in the shops and bus and tv no English you quickly learn. I'm writing this from the Ukraine while I look after a 5 year old while my g f is at work. This kind of relationship can work in the f s u it wouldn't work in the UK. I've done it in Minsk too but that relationship ended because their was no future of moving to UK and the ex husbands family was very heavily involved with the son of my then g f.
Really?
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Anyone else here thinking off/dreaming off living in the FSU?
I'm doing fine where I'm at. Also I wouldn't want to live in a place where shit happens a lot.
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Also I wouldn't want to live in a place where shit happens a lot.
You enjoy constipation ??
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Trench if you can cook and keep house you can live rent free. You would be surprised how many of the Minsk career women can't cook. Your woman will be leaving for work about 6am and home 6pm. Keep house and cook well and you will have a fantastic evening and weekend. Gender stereotype reversal for sure but as long as you keep up your machismo it works in ways it never would In the uk.
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Evidently, you are unfamiliar with Trench's posts. A summary:
1. He has no game.
2. He is looking for a childless woman.
3. He wants her to be pregnant soon, so that she doesn't "escape" him.
4. She should wear only short skirts, as she should exist solely to indulge his desires.
5. He doesn't want a "career woman'. She should only aspire to, at a maximum, a shop girl job for pocket money, as he can't support her himself.
6. When she is not working at her menial job, she should be tied to either the kitchen or the bed.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
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I doubt monetary support has anything to do with the mother's position. The average pension in Ukraine is US$70, and most pensioners at that level also get state subsidies for housing, if required, and some utilities. Any relative abroad can supplement a pensioner's income for almost nothing. Plus, it appears she also has a son who would support her.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
And I get told I would struggle to live in Ukraine /Belarus on £500 per month :-\
Boe, that's still not going to be an easy lifestyle. Generally most if not all of that $70 a month will be spent on food. What happens of the TV breaks, the fridge, the cooker, microwave, etc, etc. Ok the answer will be to make do with what you have, so eat uncooked food, listen to the radio, etc. Still it will likely get pretty depressing particularly if family are no longer around. That $70 may not reach very far even for food.
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You are a foreigner. You will always pay more than a local, often, more than double what a local will pay. Furthermore, none of those pensioners are paying rent, and most, as I noted, receive state subsidies for utilities, transportation, medical care, medicines, etc., which you will never receive. Almost all of them also can sew their own clothes (or repair them). Unless you currently can eat on $30 a month in the UK, you cannot assume you can live like they do.
The US$70 I mentioned was to make the basics easier. If a relative is living abroad, he/she can afford to send US$140 to buy a new Samsung television, or US$245 for a new refrigerator, or US$195 for a new microwave (all converted prices from hryvnia).
The better half sends his mother US$100 every four months or so. She says not to send more often, she has enough money.
In any event, I don't think in this situation, money is the issue.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
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And I get told I would struggle to live in Ukraine /Belarus on £500 per month :-\
Boe, that's still not going to be an easy lifestyle. Generally most if not all of that $70 a month will be spent on food. What happens of the TV breaks, the fridge, the cooker, microwave, etc, etc. Ok the answer will be to make do with what you have, so eat uncooked food, listen to the radio, etc. Still it will likely get pretty depressing particularly if family are no longer around. That $70 may not reach very far even for food.
Yes you will never be able to live on £500 a month. Most people in Ukraine are also able to supplement their food by extensive pickling and preserving food grown at the Dacha.
Have you ever been to a local bazaar, Trench? No, I didn’t think so. You haven’t a scoot doo of how people shop locally. With zero language skills it’s not something you’re likely too.
Inhabiting the centre in Kyiv or any other major city in the FSU is not a lifestyle the majority experience.
Of course, for ‘rich’ foreigners like you it’s all you do experience.
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As you know, John, a foreigner can shop at local markets, but will pay double or triple what locals pay.
The better half's family don't have a dacha, but they purchase tomatoes, cucumbers and such in summer and preserve them for winter.
WRT Trench, I think he should go live in the FSU. If he doesn't, he will always wonder what "could" have been.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
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We've got a really snazzy McDs here in Batumi, Republic of Georgia for that!
Dave - seasons greetings ! McDs is NOT the place to meet a / take a FSU W on a date ..period .;)
A few days I got an agreement with an Airbnb apartment owner I've rented from before. I am going to rent his apartment during the busy tourist season (May 1st through October). $350 a month plus utilities. This is considered top rent for a steady (and valued) renter here.
GREAT price !
I've put women on the back burner for now. I am working on health restoration, undistracted.
Normally, when the quiet guys hit paydirt !
Nappy New Year ;)
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About markets just watch the locals to see the prices you learn fast. You think Ukranian markets are more of a rip off than UK ones with traders who were born in Pakistan or east London ?
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I agree trench can't afford to live alone and I note he wants a childless woman but for others there are lovely single mothers
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Dave - seasons greetings ! McDs is NOT the place to meet a / take a FSU W on a date ..period .;)
That reminds me, I once met a girl in Minsk. She invited me on a date to... McDonalds! Granted I much was much younger then as she was younger than me. :)
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McDonald's is easy to find for a coffee
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You are a foreigner. You will always pay more than a local, often, more than double what a local will pay. Furthermore, none of those pensioners are paying rent, and most, as I noted, receive state subsidies for utilities, transportation, medical care, medicines, etc., which you will never receive. Almost all of them also can sew their own clothes (or repair them). Unless you currently can eat on $30 a month in the UK, you cannot assume you can live like they do.
The US$70 I mentioned was to make the basics easier. If a relative is living abroad, he/she can afford to send US$140 to buy a new Samsung television, or US$245 for a new refrigerator, or US$195 for a new microwave (all converted prices from hryvnia).
The better half sends his mother US$100 every four months or so. She says not to send more often, she has enough money.
In any event, I don't think in this situation, money is the issue.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
Not many will have family living abroad. Even those that do they may not be such close family as to send money to them.
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Plus lots of nice women take their kids to MacDonald Minsk. Many I know do
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Plus lots of nice women take their kids to MacDonald Minsk. Many I know do
Sure, KIDS love McDs ... and you might find some western guy covertly taking photos of you and sharing them with others in chat rooms online ... ((
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Not many will have family living abroad. Even those that do they may not be such close family as to send money to them.
Wrong. Over one quarter of Ukraine’s work age population works abroad, legally and illegally. Those workers sent over US$9 billion in remittances back to Ukraine in 2017, dwarfing foreign investment within the country. That number is around 9% of Ukraine’s GDP.
You really should read a bit before making such stupid statements.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
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Msmob not at all I have friends in Minsk who send me photos of their family in McDonald's Minsk I have been there and msmob you were a complete idiot posting your daughters photo on this site so please don't preach. I'm just pro single mothers they can't get dates in belarus bring them to UK and builders are yelling angel at them from scaffolding. Been there done that.
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Msmob not at all I have friends in Minsk who send me photos of their family in McDonald's Minsk I have been there and msmob you were a complete idiot posting your daughters photo on this site so please don't preach. I'm just pro single mothers they can't get dates in belarus bring them to UK and builders are yelling angel at them from scaffolding. Been there done that.
😂😂
Didn’t take you long to find that out.
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Msmob not at all I have friends in Minsk who send me photos of their family in McDonald's Minsk I have been there and msmob you were a complete idiot posting your daughters photo on this site so please don't preach. I'm just pro single mothers they can't get dates in belarus bring them to UK and builders are yelling angel at them from scaffolding. Been there done that.
Dear James,
my post re McDs and the possibility of a western guy enjoying taking photos of one's 'awkward moments' meeting dates went over your head - but I'm certain longer serving members got it ... One of our members has boasted of doing same..
To that end, I'm now guessing your comment re my posting #2 daughter's photo should be making you feel somewhat foolish..as I wasn't 'preaching' .. :rolleyes:
Her photos are all over social media and I chose one's that cannot be used to 'trace' her...
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Evidently, you are unfamiliar with Trench's posts. A summary:
1. He has no game.
2. He is looking for a childless woman.
3. He wants her to be pregnant soon, so that she doesn't "escape" him.
4. She should wear only short skirts, as she should exist solely to indulge his desires.
5. He doesn't want a "career woman'. She should only aspire to, at a maximum, a shop girl job for pocket money, as he can't support her himself.
6. When she is not working at her menial job, she should be tied to either the kitchen or the bed.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
Correct on all of the above except I would like to change 1 to 'I had no game' :D
FSU dating was new to me and some things took a while to figure out.
In the UK you need one hell of a game, and even then it can be rough going. UK women have many guys to choose from, the opposite if the FSU. I know how UK girls in the main mess guys around. They can be with one guy one week and another guy the next. They play all sorts of games fir their own advancement and you can just be a convenient stepping stone for them.
I also know the value of a hot girl in the UK. I know that I'm not the most desirable candidate for hot girls to be with. I wouldn't judge myself as ugly of particularly awkward and some hot girls have seen to take at least passing interest in the past. A hot UK girl though would soon be of to the next best thing, I doubt I would keep a UK hottie for long. Sure I can improve a little on this or that but I don't think I'll ever be the dogs bollocks sort of guy. That's not me lacking in confidence, I'm a fairly confident sort of guy, that's the reality of how things are. I'm not alone there are loads of guys in just as bad or worse situation than me.
The FSU gives me advantage on this front. I know if I bring a hottie back loads of UK guys will have a crack at her given the chance that's just being realistic. I've learnt over time though doing this that I can get certain advantages over these guys. This makes making an attempt at the FSU dating game feasible play. I'm not looking to put anything unfair on a FSW but equally I want to be careful not to make stupid mistakes. The dating market here in the UK can be ferocious for guys and hot girls don't go begging.
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Trench what you have failed to realise is the benefit of f s u women once in a relationship they are faithful . Only one of my friends has lost a wife and he was 52 and married an 18 maldoven.
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Dave - seasons greetings ! McDs is NOT the place to meet a / take a FSU W on a date ..period . ;)
Never took a woman to a Mickey D's.
McDonalds here is considered a treat for some. Usually the under thirty crowd. The older Georgians get, the less likely they like the place. Usually they only like Georgian food. The over 40 crowd usually gives it a big thumbs down.
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Trench what you have failed to realise is the benefit of f s u women once in a relationship they are faithful . Only one of my friends has lost a wife and he was 52 and married an 18 maldoven.
Besides your single antidotal now ex-couple, what statistics do you base this statement on?
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I have a Latvian male friend who speaks Russian married to a Belarusian who got me into this fsu dating I dated 2 of his friends 2 of hers. I'm now dating a Ukranian who in cyprus gets hit on by guys all the time. The Belarusian while with me and being hit on by English guys stayed faithful English women would have been flirting back like mad. Another English friend who has 2 sons in ukraine but his wife fails the English speaking test. Another friend went to makeover and married an 18 year old and marriage lasted a few years. I have a few Latvian male friends married to belarus and Russian girls and all are so much better behaved and loving than English women. Ok not statically presentable. So bdhva what are your statistics to prove Russian speaking women are worse behaved than English
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. . . the benefit of f s u women once in a relationship they are faithful .
This is nonsense.
Even BOE has told here it is not true.
I think there is probably zero difference between FSUW and WW in this regard.
On the other hand, I would say that WM are more faithful than FSUM . . . not because WM are morally better, but simply because FSUM have much better opportunities.
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I have a Latvian male friend who speaks Russian married to a Belarusian who got me into this fsu dating I dated 2 of his friends 2 of hers. I'm now dating a Ukranian who in cyprus gets hit on by guys all the time. The Belarusian while with me and being hit on by English guys stayed faithful English women would have been flirting back like mad. Another English friend who has 2 sons in ukraine but his wife fails the English speaking test. Another friend went to makeover and married an 18 year old and marriage lasted a few years. I have a few Latvian male friends married to belarus and Russian girls and all are so much better behaved and loving than English women. Ok not statically presentable. So bdhva what are your statistics to prove Russian speaking women are worse behaved than English
James, you may have viewed a lot of relationships that were successful. Other men come here and notice most the relationships around them have failed. There are good and bad men and women in every culture. Surround yourself with good people and discard the people that give you trouble.
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Trench what you have failed to realise is the benefit of f s u women once in a relationship they are faithful .
Most women of all cultures are faithful. But, let me tell you the stories of some of the UW I know have cheated on their husbands. This is based on times living in Ukraine, when morality was stronger, and now, based on being there in October.
One woman, a 22 year old, would bring her forty something boss home during the day, when her husband was at work, and have sex with him in the couple's marriage bed. She didn't do this because she was enamored with him - she wanted to advance her career. How did I find out about it? A friend used to fix the lighting in the district, and saw her doing the deed while the friend was 10 m in the air, fixing a street lamp above her open bedroom window.
One of the better half's married coworkers was having an affair with a woman in the office, the wife of an army officer. The better half once walked in on them having sex, as they failed to secure the door. A lot of workers there were from villages, and their sense of morality is a bit different. They told the man to stop, or he would face, for lack of a better word, karma. He didn't, and about a month after that, was in a bad motor vehicle accident.
One of the better half's friends married a woman who routinely slept with his acquaintances. The better half always found her repulsive, from the day he met her. Nevertheless, when he went to call on the friend once, she answered the door, and offered to sleep with him if he would give her a piece of unique clothing he was wearing. He was disgusted not only by the offer, but because he disliked her so much, and told her so to her face. Eventually, the wife got what she wanted from her husband (a propiska to live in Kyiv) and dumped him. She ended up an alcoholic, screwing men for a bottle of cheap wine.
While we were in Kyiv recently, a scandal developed in the apartment block. One building over, a man found out his wife was sleeping with his father. They didn't have children yet, so he was dumping her.
SIL was telling me about her friend's son, whose wife had bled him dry financially, all while sleeping with his classmate.
Cousin in Western Ukraine told me of an acquaintance's daughter, who was "dating" foreigners while her husband was abroad working.
I can think of six former posters, five here, one from a now defunct forum, who divorced because their FSU wives were cheating on them. In all but two cases, the FSUW left her husband for her lover.
I could go on, I have hundreds of these stories (men, too). FSUW are no more nor less faithful than their Western counterparts. I could give you just as many examples of WW who have never cheated on their husbands, and anecdotally, that would "prove" WW are faithful as much as your anecdotes about FSUW do.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
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Billy I think because the guys use the wrong way to find women. Pay to play sites rather than just getting in country. Today I've been shopping many shop assistants approached me most disappeared with my lack of Russian. Had a great laugh with a stunner with poor communication. Had a real chat in English with a very pretty girl. All because I wanted a walk in the snow and get out of the apartment. No agendas it just happens. Came home with a kitchen knife clothes airer and a loo brush. Buying the loo brush was the best chat.
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Wow boethius almost matching stories from the UK so I take your point it happens everywhere
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Wow boethius almost matching stories from the UK so I take your point it happens everywhere
Faithfulness or faithlessness are not bound by national boundaries.
Human nature, being as fickle as it is, will see the same stories being told across cultures and lines on a map.
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IF you are so 'worried about Russia' - be aware that President Lukashouldgo runs a police state and people get filmed and locked up for opposing his rule...
He's going to buck heads with Russia one day .. and probably lose ...as the Kremlin want BY 'back in the fold' .. he has plans for a dynasty and putting his son on the throne ;)
When I was living in Moscow the joke about Belarus was that Putin would announce a trade deal or military exercise with Belarus in the Russian press then, after the announcement had been made public by the Russian media, Putin's office would contact Belarus President Alexander Lukashenko and tell him what was happening.
It's true that Lukashenko speaks out about problems with Putin, as in the article below, but the idea that Lukashenko has equal input into Russian-Belarusian relations is wrong. Unless relations have changed greatly in the last couple of years any major decisions between the two countries are made in the Kremlin and that's not likely to change.
As for armed resistance by Belarus against a military incursion by Russia? Lukashenko may order his military to fight but it's unlikely the Belarusian military would put up much of a fight. It's likely much of the Belarusian military would defect to Russia, probably even more likely than the Ukrainian military defecting to Russia.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1065149/russia-news-vladimir-putin-moscow-kremlin-belarus-union-state
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Faithfulness or faithlessness are not bound by national boundaries.
Human nature, being as fickle as it is, will see the same stories being told across cultures and lines on a map.
True, I think what James was getting at though is something else which often gets misinterpreted as FSW are more faithful. I was messaging with a Russian lady member on here a while ago and she told me that most FSW tend to be focused on family, having family, cooking, etc as their prespective on life. It's the way they've been brought up. So their outlook in the first instance tends to be better. So unless the girl is particularly insincere worrying about a girl doing the dirty on you from the moment she steps foot in the UK, US, etc is probably not the first thing on her mind in most instances. How it develops after that then yes all sorts of stuff can happen depending on the girl.
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Moby will probably say you shouldn't encourage him. I kind of like the idea.
:cheesy:
Moby knows no 'career girl' would be remotely interested in Trench, either ..
Until he undergoes a personality change, he's always going to be wasting his money
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Trench 500 month will pay for your food and some travel . No rent. It's not possible.
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Trench 500 month will pay for your food and some travel . No rent. It's not possible.
Take it from someone who lives in the FSU. 500 English Pounds a month will pay for your rent (In Georgia), utilities and a 'eat at home' non-fancy food budget. Any money to have fun with (Entertain women) will have to come from some other source of income. Teaching English is not the potential source of income that it once was.
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Trench's logic is totally faulty.
Instead of just dating women, like most folks do to find an interesting person to spend time with, get used to each other and build a trusting relationship he doesn't want to date but instead meet women (preferably lined up around the block) with a sign around his neck stating "follow my rules and you can marry me if I think you're good enuf"
Some here, including myself went 'in' quite blind and quick on the trigger. Maybe we had a bit of luck or found ways to overcome the huge hurdles involved. After 16 years I can state it took a huge amount of both. The biggest advantages I had were that I wasn't even looking for a wife as we met by chance, along with enough play dough and all the time I needed to support the venture without going in debt.
Those pursuing with more 'arranged' circumstances (deals) will likely face much more adversity and inherent risk. Those that have 'made it' are likely overrepresented here among the old-timers. Many more of us failed or gave up trying. Given the odds I would have never attempted this MOB route, likely settling down with a woman from EU, maybe even US.
I'll say it again and again... if you're interested in FSUW, go and visit bringing along one of your interests or hobbies, music, art, sports, trains, architecture, history, cars or whatever and spend some time with like minded folks there. If you're lucky you might meet an interesting woman to date (friends, friends of friends, etc). Your overall chances though will be much greater than coming across as just another western 'wife seeker'. Be yourself, date like you would at home and understand that traveling is expensive. If you are applying for your first passport without any experience outside your country best to get your feet wet elsewhere before jumping in the deep end of the pool.
I'm writing this not for Trench's benefit - he's a hopeless cause, but instead for anyone that runs across this thread and is truly interested in doing some traveling and meeting nice folks, including women along the way.
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Thank you, BC
Well said
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I'm shopping locally. Tower block bottom supermarkets. 10 to 15 pounds a day on food. No other options within walking distance. Ukraine.
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Take it from someone who lives in the FSU. 500 English Pounds a month will pay for your rent (In Georgia), utilities and a 'eat at home' non-fancy food budget. Any money to have fun with (Entertain women) will have to come from some other source of income. Teaching English is not the potential source of income that it once was.
Not in Ukraine, it won’t. Rent alone will eat up that £500.
Trench must live on jam sandwich’s and beans on toast if he thinks that £500 will stretch to a month of eating, renting + utilities and entertaining.
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Trench's logic is totally faulty.
I'll say it again and again... if you're interested in FSUW, go and visit bringing along one of your interests or hobbies, music, art, sports, trains, architecture, history, cars or whatever and spend some time with like minded folks there. If you're lucky you might meet an interesting woman to date (friends, friends of friends, etc). Your overall chances though will be much greater than coming across as just another western 'wife seeker'. Be yourself, date like you would at home and understand that traveling is expensive.
I'm writing this . . . for anyone that runs across this thread and is truly interested in doing some traveling and meeting nice folks, including women along the way.
BC, his logic may be faulty . . . but your logic and suggestions (while valid) cannot be undertaken by 90%+ of the guys here.
So not much help at all to 'newbies.'
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I'm shopping locally. Tower block bottom supermarkets. 10 to 15 pounds a day on food. No other options within walking distance. Ukraine.
You're paying much more than £300 a month for food for just yourself while living in Ukraine? Where are you living and what are you eating? I could do better than that in Moscow. Granted I can speak and read Russian and know where to shop however after a few weeks in country and a little prep work you should know the best shopping areas. Is there no public transit in the area you live in?
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BC, his logic may be faulty . . . but your logic and suggestions (while valid) cannot be undertaken by 90%+ of the guys here.
So not much help at all to 'newbies.'
Little time, little money and grandiose expectations.
Therein lie most of the potholes.. and a path full of landmines.
Ain't much more I can add... Outahere!
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BC, his logic may be faulty . . . but your logic and suggestions (while valid) cannot be undertaken by 90%+ of the guys here.
So not much help at all to 'newbies.'
Not much help? Probably true for those who can only go for a week or two at a time. However over the years I've heard a number of men on sites such as RWD, RUA and others that have gone into the FSU for a month or two or more multiple times and still haven't accomplished anything.
If a man has months to spend in the FSU or the Philippines, China, etc and has done this several times he should be able to find success. If he hasn't been successful then perhaps the problem is him? Especially if he's done some prep work and learned some of the local language and customs. Has a job lined up and been to the area on a vacation to learn about the area.
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ya know somethin?
I know one guy who ISN'T dreaming about living in the FSU!
Paul Whelan!
the accomodations in Lubayanka are not all that great, as I can attest (basement is VERY cold and smells BAD!)
but you do have easy access to the Metro on the way out!
I wonder what airbnb execs in Moscow think about this?
does this mean that Marina Butina will be freed soon?
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Not much help? Probably true for those who can only go for a week or two at a time. However over the years I've heard a number of men on sites such as RWD, RUA and others that have gone into the FSU for a month or two or more multiple times and still haven't accomplished anything.
If a man has months to spend in the FSU or the Philippines, China, etc and has done this several times he should be able to find success. If he hasn't been successful then perhaps the problem is him? Especially if he's done some prep work and learned some of the local language and customs. Has a job lined up and been to the area on a vacation to learn about the area.
True, I think part of this journey is looking at oneself and asking 'do I need to improve on myself' and 'what feasibly can I improve on' along with 'how much effort/commitment will I need to do to make this improvement'. I'm doing stuff now and got stuff in the pipeline to try and improve. Not that I think I am that way off (some guys are) but that I think by making some improvements my overall chances will improve both initially and in the long term. Some guys find it hard to look at themselves and ask what improvement could benefit them. Other more wealthy guys just throw a lot of money at tge situation. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.
I haven't really spent enough time out in the FSU to amount to a guy who has been out there a lot and come up short. I'm more familiar with the dating hand out there now and ways about it but I need to actually get out there for a much longer period.
This whole question though is more about the way of life out there. I don't really mean going oug there to work but the social side of things. Handled right a guy could date a different girl many days of the week out there. That's a hell of a lot different fro the UK and probably much of the US & elsewhere. Isn't that a more pleasurable environment to be in particularly if you get into an environment where the girls are lusting after and chasing you :)
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I'll say it again and again... if you're interested in FSUW, go and visit bringing along one of your interests or hobbies, music, art, sports, trains, architecture, history, cars or whatever and spend some time with like minded folks there. If you're lucky you might meet an interesting woman to date (friends, friends of friends, etc). Your overall chances though will be much greater than coming across as just another western 'wife seeker'. Be yourself, date like you would at home and understand that traveling is expensive. If you are applying for your first passport without any experience outside your country best to get your feet wet elsewhere before jumping in the deep end of the pool.
fore
Theoretically you could meet someone with similar or compatible interests of dating sites. I've brought up the aiming for same subject before on here and it was pointed out your me rightly now I think that it's not a prerequisite. In fact it could be undesirable for me since I have strong notions in my subject and a girl that jars with that may not get on with me at all well. I think though that subjects I'm not into would probably not work with me either if the girl was into them such as theatre, I've had that situation 2-3 times already and it's not been a winner.
Well Architecture is my subject if interest. It's funny though but I've never really thought of a way to convincingly come to a situation of physical meetings with the Architecture crowd as a whole.
For sure I can check out Architecture schools on Uni webpages on VK and their students and try to link up with students, possibly even go to any end of year exhibitions or the like. The big problem seems to be same as in this country is that there appears to be no individual place where people can come and chat/socialise in person in an informal manner on a casual basis at virtually any time. Everything is usually online or formal networking/conference/train events that last for the one off. Sometimes I think it would be nice just to meet up casually with the odd Architecture type of person and just compare notes, casually discuss Architecture news, themes, interest stories, shoot the breeze as it were in a light hearted manner over a drink in a relaxed comfy bar like atmosphere and then wander on ones way. Now that would be an effective way to meet girls in the same interest subject (not that I would see eye to eye with all of them). To date though I don't see any forum that exists for such a function.
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This whole question though is more about the way of life out there. I don't really mean going oug there to work but the social side of things. Handled right a guy could date a different girl many days of the week out there. That's a hell of a lot different fro the UK and probably much of the US & elsewhere. Isn't that a more pleasurable environment to be in particularly if you get into an environment where the girls are lusting after and chasing you :)
Trench,
Didn't you spend a week walking around Lviv alone because you weren't able to get a date? You talk utter rubbish on here about British women because the simple fact is you cannot get one.
You can talk about working on yourself, but like most on here I think you're delusional. How do you plan to pay for dates and any sort of lifestyle on your £500 a month? Like others have said, you've made a point of lining up hundreds of women. What are you really looking for? And if it's what it looks like to everyone here, you'll have to pay for it one way or another.
Be honest with yourself. It's not realistic. By all means give it a go and let us know how it works out! :deadhorse:
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Trench,
Didn't you spend a week walking around Lviv alone because you weren't able to get a date? You talk utter rubbish on here about British women because the simple fact is you cannot get one.
You can talk about working on yourself, but like most on here I think you're delusional. How do you plan to pay for dates and any sort of lifestyle on your £500 a month? Like others have said, you've made a point of lining up hundreds of women. What are you really looking for? And if it's what it looks like to everyone here, you'll have to pay for it one way or another.
Be honest with yourself. It's not realistic. By all means give it a go and let us know how it works out! :deadhorse:
I had two dates while I was in Lviv. I wasn't fully aware of the ins & outs of the visit many method and mistakes were made sInce I had only done visit ones before.
Maxx2 states there is some go in the prospect of living out there on £500 a month. Remember we are talking £'s not $'s here :) It is doable that I am sure, if more money can be garnered then theoretically better thd situation. Can all depend on how you go about it. With some savings behind me I can all back on the £500 may well do to cover most of the outgoings. I now locals may get this or that cheaper but I still think considering some will get a lots less than £500 a month that it's enough for a foreigner to manage on. If I go on a website and go for a tourist flat in the city centre aimed at foreigners then of course it will cost more. It's all about getting onto a good deal. Remember IF I get a girl in Minsk or wherever she can then sort out a better deal for me/us ;) Other ways can no doubt be used as well so long as you can be sure that the person can be trusted. I'm sure many a Belarusian girl would find £500 a month quite a sizeable income particularly as in independent income.
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Being sort of a cheapskate on steroids,,,,,
I could easily live anywhere in Ukraine for much less than £500 a month, or even $500 a month,
And have all the money I would ever need for dating.
If my priorities was to search for a woman only.
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Being sort of a cheapskate on steroids,,,,,
I could easily live anywhere in Ukraine for much less than £500 a month, or even $500 a month,
And have all the money I would ever need for dating.
If my priorities was to search for a woman only.
£500 isn’t going to go far if dating regularly over a month.
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I actually like trenches spirit at least he tries compared with the pay to chat pay to date pay to fail guys. He reminds me a lot of myself straight out of a 24 year marriage / relationship. He does not realise he should not try to improve himself but be who he is . Figure out what his u s p are and go find a girl who needs these u s p . Trying to date young Russian speaking women the locals guys will trump him every time and he will be used for a lot of free dinners. Dating And living with a woman from the fsu is so different from a UK woman it's completely different societies. So he can fix up his house so pack his tools and take them to belarus and fix up his honeys apartment the payback in the f s u is 100 times better ))))
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£500 isn’t going to go far if dating regularly over a month.
Ah, yes the dating costs would likely be more and I would likely have to dip into my savings for this and that. Some can date pretty cheaply but I think I would have moderate costs there that the £500 would probably not fully cover. I think Northkape is right that £500 a month is doable for general living costs, handled right.
Over time of course I would hope to settle down with a FSW in such a scenario and of course cost savings can likely be made. So it would go from less dating to more everyday living which I think is good in getting to a better depth of understanding on each other.
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There has been a lot of posts about how much it would cost if you lived there, etc.
Here's my experience from the last month and a half:
City: Kharkiv
Rent: $1000/month. This is for a last-minute short term arrangement for a nice 1 bedroom (2 room) apartment less than 1 km from the center. (Nauky Ave, 8, next to the Medical University). With advanced notice and longer term, there are about 5 or 6 similar apartments nearby at $450-600/month.
Food, dining out: $20-60 for two, depending on how many courses and drinks. Drinks are definitely cheaper than at restaurants in the States.
Food, groceries: $50 to $215 per week, for two. Wide range due to the holidays. Cheapest beer (that I liked) was at Metro, 19 UAH ($0.68) for 1 liter. Stella is a little less than $1 per 0.33 liter, other EU beers about $1- $2 per 0.33 liter. Most expensive seems to be Guiness. Bread is less than $1 per loaf, milk about $1 per liter (for fresh, cheaper for long shelf life milk), wine and alcohol about $4 for cheap Ukrainian wine to over $300 for Johnie Walker Blue (0.75 liter). Made prime rib roast for New Year, 435 UAH for 3.4 kg, 6 bone roast. Vegetables are about 1/2 the cost of the cheapest US grocery stores - tomatoes were 64 UAH per kilo (was told that is expensive, due to winter). Water is 12.5 UAH for 1.5 liters of Morshinska, cheaper when getting the 6 liter bottles. There is a purified water filling machine outside this building, at 1.12 UAH per liter. Have not shopped in markets, only at Rost, Klass, Silpo and Metro.
Transportation: Metro is 5 UAH. Uber is 112 to 395 UAH (had to go to the city limits to the East once, at morning rush hour, to take nephews to soccer - car was snowed in. Return trip was only 195 UAH for the same distance). Petrol is 29 UAH/liter for 95, with a 2 UAH drop in the past two weeks.
Coffee: Wifey-to-be always stops at WOG when we are out, for XXL size cafe late, at 33 UAH (cheapest - was as high as 38 near Kramatorsk). She also buys the instant Jacobs coffee tube packets for about 3.5 UAH each to make at home.
Mobile: 115 UAH for 4 weeks of 4G unlimited data plan on Vodaphone.
My monthly expense without rent is over $1000. Subtracting nice dinners out, then it's about $800.
Wifey-to-be owns and runs a retail store, and makes about 50,000 UAH per month on average. Her income is above average here, but her friends who have normal jobs still earn about 25,000 UAH per month (in Kharkiv).
At the current exchange rate, 500 GPB is 17,000 UAH. Average to below average monthly income for here. If the goal is to just live here, then yes, it is doable. If the goal is to move here and be a player...no, not even close.
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I actually like trenches spirit at least he tries compared with the pay to chat pay to date pay to fail guys. He reminds me a lot of myself straight out of a 24 year marriage / relationship. He does not realise he should not try to improve himself but be who he is . Figure out what his u s p are and go find a girl who needs these u s p . Trying to date young Russian speaking women the locals guys will trump him every time and he will be used for a lot of free dinners. Dating And living with a woman from the fsu is so different from a UK woman it's completely different societies. So he can fix up his house so pack his tools and take them to belarus and fix up his honeys apartment the payback in the f s u is 100 times better ))))
Well I guess I am looking to make any improvements to myself part of who I am. I know what you mean that essentially the girl will either be into you or not. That's true but in the UK a girl can be into several guys and it's the girl that does the choosing. This is not a choice position to be in as it then gets down to who is the best on terms of this or that. If I were ever to take a girl back to the UK apart from a headstart with the girl and a few advantages the same situation essentially still applies depending on if/when she realises it.
In the FSU there tends to be less competition around, plus I tend to be the best guy because I beat the competition in terms of wealth, passport/opportunity, ability to provide, less vices & problems, etc. I beat guys who the girl may find chemistry with but they are unemployed, drunks, drug addicts, gamblers, poor health, mentally unstable, etc, etc. They may not all be low lives but they may be in low level jobs, poor accomodation, unambitious, personality issues, etc. So in that case they tend to lose out to me :) Now of course if I was athletic (I'm average build not fat though) very wealthy guy with good social skills I would come top of the tree for dating girls in the UK. Some stuff I can improve on some not so. If a guy doesn't have a great dating history then I accept there is normally a reason why, it may not be a lot in a country such as the UK where there is a lot of competition from other guys but it's something to look at I think. Even in the far less fussy FSU doing so can help make dating easier & more successful I think.
I think a lot of WM fall into that category. I'm probably not too bad as girls do at least look at me in the west. Some WM few western girls will look. Some guys are too unappealing physically, socially, economically, too lacking in status, etc, etc. The other category of WM looking for FSW tend to be those that have been in long term often family relationships in the west and so are at least usually somewhat proven to pass the bar. If they have previously passed the bar for western girls mist will almost certainly pass the bar for FSW.
The DIY is a good idea James, I'll try to get thatin my profile I think, many thanks to you on that thought :) Again though in the west at present for most girls a guy who is good at DIY may be seen as a negative - not the right image they want of a man, they want someone who can pay others to do the job. Think I've put that down on Match profiles in the passed and don't think it was a winner, lol.
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There has been a lot of posts about how much it would cost if you lived there, etc.
Here's my experience from the last month and a half:
City: Kharkiv
Rent: $1000/month. This is for a last-minute short term arrangement for a nice 1 bedroom (2 room) apartment less than 1 km from the center. (Nauky Ave, 8, next to the Medical University). With advanced notice and longer term, there are about 5 or 6 similar apartments nearby at $450-600/month.
Food, dining out: $20-60 for two, depending on how many courses and drinks. Drinks are definitely cheaper than at restaurants in the States.
Food, groceries: $50 to $215 per week, for two. Wide range due to the holidays. Cheapest beer (that I liked) was at Metro, 19 UAH ($0.68) for 1 liter. Stella is a little less than $1 per 0.33 liter, other EU beers about $1- $2 per 0.33 liter. Most expensive seems to be Guiness. Bread is less than $1 per loaf, milk about $1 per liter (for fresh, cheaper for long shelf life milk), wine and alcohol about $4 for cheap Ukrainian wine to over $300 for Johnie Walker Blue (0.75 liter). Made prime rib roast for New Year, 435 UAH for 3.4 kg, 6 bone roast. Vegetables are about 1/2 the cost of the cheapest US grocery stores - tomatoes were 64 UAH per kilo (was told that is expensive, due to winter). Water is 12.5 UAH for 1.5 liters of Morshinska, cheaper when getting the 6 liter bottles. There is a purified water filling machine outside this building, at 1.12 UAH per liter. Have not shopped in markets, only at Rost, Klass, Silpo and Metro.
Transportation: Metro is 5 UAH. Uber is 112 to 395 UAH (had to go to the city limits to the East once, at morning rush hour, to take nephews to soccer - car was snowed in. Return trip was only 195 UAH for the same distance). Petrol is 29 UAH/liter for 95, with a 2 UAH drop in the past two weeks.
Coffee: Wifey-to-be always stops at WOG when we are out, for XXL size cafe late, at 33 UAH (cheapest - was as high as 38 near Kramatorsk). She also buys the instant Jacobs coffee tube packets for about 3.5 UAH each to make at home.
Mobile: 115 UAH for 4 weeks of 4G unlimited data plan on Vodaphone.
My monthly expense without rent is over $1000. Subtracting nice dinners out, then it's about $800.
Wifey-to-be owns and runs a retail store, and makes about 50,000 UAH per month on average. Her income is above average here, but her friends who have normal jobs still earn about 25,000 UAH per month (in Kharkiv).
At the current exchange rate, 500 GPB is 17,000 UAH. Average to below average monthly income for here. If the goal is to just live here, then yes, it is doable. If the goal is to move here and be a player...no, not even close.
Inflation can be an issue in Ukraine as it makes it difficult to keep track. When I was there nearly three years ago now eating out in restaurants was ridiculously cheap. It was like £4 for a meal with a drink each. That was in a bog standard restaurants, not real basic nicely done our enough. A year later with another girl the resyaurants seemed a lot more. I know they were experiencin a lot of inflation but even still. I wondered later of it was more fancy restaurants we were going to or if I was getting more of the foreigner prices with the second girl as she didn't care what I had to pay perhaps.
I do wonder though Steve if your expenses are not a lot higher than the usual. In the UK you can get a decent pub meal for around £10 each with drinks for two costing £5-10 depending on what you want.
I get the impression that some guys fron the states are so loaded with money that they think what they are spending is normal spending when in fact it is way in excess of the normal for most people from whatever country.
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Supermarket food at 30 to the pound is exactly the same prices as UK for all products
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From what I've seen even paid handyman are terrible at what they do. This last week I rebuilt all kitchen draws in the apartment and rebuilt a chest of draws in the bedroom that was delivered assembled brand new
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Just seen a new build with a broken sewerpipe because of a dividing wall
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Supermarket food at 30 to the pound is exactly the same prices as UK for all products
I tended to find like you say much the same for supermarket food. Mind you I was in central Kiev. Might have been slightly cheaper first time I went think inflation kicked in since then and also I guess what is most in need for Ukrainians.
I possibly think many Ukrainians are hard presssed because of prices in shops that are usual for us but high priced for them. That's what some of the previous articles on it all seemed to indicate that I found.
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There has been a lot of posts about how much it would cost if you lived there, etc.
Here's my experience from the last month and a half:
City: Kharkiv
My experience and expense was virtually identical. In fact, I also lived at Nauky Ave 8 for 3 weeks before. I liked the apartment, maybe it was the same one overlooking the Sushi place.
I probably ate out more and rarely did any shopping other than for water and small snacks. I spent less money on accommodation and on most things in general in Sumy, but then there is the cost and hassle of getting there. If Trench thinks he's going to live relatively well off such a humble budget, better to start thinking away from the big cities and fast food or a walk in the park for dates. But that will only get you so far.
Then again, I still don't get how a guy who cannot get a date in the UK expects to have a queue of the lining up around the corner...irrespective of the budget. Human nature is the same all over and Trench's failings both at home and on foreign soil tell me he is still deluded.
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At the current exchange rate, 500 GPB is 17,000 UAH. Average to below average monthly income for here. If the goal is to just live here, then yes, it is doable. If the goal is to move here and be a player...no, not even close.
Not according to official stats as quotededicated by this EM article and the one I quoted earlier:
http://blogs.elenasmodels.com/en/wages-and-salaries-in-ukraine-2018/
"In March 2018 an average Ukrainian employee earned 8,382 hryvnia (USD 321) per month, according to the official statistics."
So £500 would certainly be above the Average wage. And of course not everyone gets the average wage, many may get below that as average wages for most countries tend to be skewed at the top. I personally always think a mode average to the nearest hundred/thousand would give a better representation than a mean average.
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Trench,
when are you going to listen to those who know better ?
£500/ month and you'll exist ...no dosh to date
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I do wonder though Steve if your expenses are not a lot higher than the usual. In the UK you can get a decent pub meal for around £10 each with drinks for two costing £5-10 depending on what you want.
Higher, but not a lot higher. I am already in a relationship, so my expenses are for 2.
Point is, to be perceived as desirable (a good earner), you need to be able to afford something close to that to "have the girls lining up". £500 would possibly get you what you have gotten so far - an online date lined up that lasts the duration of a coffee or a burger when she realizes how poor you are. You have this fantasy that the local guys are lazy and/or drunk. Some are, just as there are in any city (homeless, drunkards, both), but the majority are not. Being a university town, there are many cute girls here and about an equal number of good looking guys.
The average looking guys I see with "hot" women all have $$$. We were at a interior designer store selecting some christmas ornaments - Lily Decore. It's a high end place - the ornaments were about $5 to $50 each (USD, not UAH). A very attractive woman was there, a 9 or 10, with an average looking guy, a 5. She had one of the store clerks fill a basket, with her husband handing over his card for the purchase. It was over $300, just on christmas ornaments. Then they got in their Porche Cayenne and headed off. That is your competition for the "hot" women.
Before you say that is a one-off thing, yesterday at the parking lot to my apartment building there were 2 Lexus RX, another Porche Cayenne, a Toyota Highlander and Land Cruiser. My apartment building is old - one of those buildings that is ugly on the exterior with a pristine apartment interior. Nearby are 4 new, modern 20 story apartment buildings, and more are being constructed. There are plenty of guys here earning good money.
In any city there are high earners, and you will be a small fish in a big pond. In small cities and towns, you'll be a stranger that can't speak the language. For the cute, normal girls, you'll be competing with guys who are local, stylish and confident with women. What can you offer against that, if not looks/charisma or $$$/£££?
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Sorry I only get to date hipo rhino wildebeest wart hog in uk in the f s u antelope . Some how my face fits here. Maybe trenches does too.
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Not according to official stats as quotededicated by this EM article and the one I quoted earlier:
http://blogs.elenasmodels.com/en/wages-and-salaries-in-ukraine-2018/
"In March 2018 an average Ukrainian employee earned 8,382 hryvnia (USD 321) per month, according to the official statistics."
A lot of income is not reported. Plus, the average is skewed by low income earners in towns/villages and pensioners.
Average income for those in large city is closer to double or triple that figure. I paid 350 UAH for a haircut the other day. It's a higher end place, and I had to wait 4 days because they were booked. Let's say the girl has 8 customers per day (in reality could be 15, 16 - haircut was only 30 minutes max). 2,800 UAH per day, and her take is 50% - 1,400 UAH. She works 6 days a week - 33,600 UAH per month, about £980.
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Sorry I only get to date hipo rhino wildebeest wart hog in uk in the f s u antelope . Some how my face fits here. Maybe trenches does too.
Or you got extremely lucky and found a girl that is tired of the good looking guys and liked your personality. It's what happened to me... :)
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Sorry I only get to date hipo rhino wildebeest wart hog in uk in the f s u antelope . Some how my face fits here. Maybe trenches does too.
:D I like that, lol. In truth though I think it's true, I don't suffer the same penalties with FSW as UK girls, they are just geared differently.
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I walked around today and looked at couples. What I noticed 1 percent groomed beards rest clean shaved. Zero groomed metrosexuals. That's why I fit in 2mm buzz cut and dress like a working man on a day off I fit right in. None of these 500 pound coats that you dry clean. The UK has gone for this sterile groomed look in their men. North Ukraine men look like men and women look good.
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Or you got extremely lucky and found a girl that is tired of the good looking guys and liked your personality. It's what happened to me... :)
I think for you're girl she was looking for a decent wage earner Steve. Not because she needed the money but because in Ukraine above average income guys will be in short supply and high demand. So she couldn't findo what she wanted at home. She may have well liked your personality and that combined with being in her target group and possibly some attraction probably was enough to see you in. Remember you probably beat your competition if there was any in that socio-economic group in spades. Out there its opposite worldirection and the girls are are on the prowl ;D
Well James has a girl with a young son. Nothing wrong with that if your willing to take on all that entails. Few WM are and local men will likely be non-existent. So James will face virtually no competition what so ever. Most girls with a child will take a WM as wealthy enough if he can travel. They know that they will face a lot of competition from girls with no children for the rich guys and they stand virtually no chance of landing one or probably any guy.
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Trench,
when are you going to listen to those who know better ?
£500/ month and you'll exist ...no dosh to date
Trench thinks the lure of his passport will be enough for those poor, abused Ukrainian women to overlook his skintness and escape their awful life with those awful Ukrainian men.
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Higher, but not a lot higher. I am already in a relationship, so my expenses are for 2.
Point is, to be perceived as desirable (a good earner), you need to be able to afford something close to that to "have the girls lining up". £500 would possibly get you what you have gotten so far - an online date lined up that lasts the duration of a coffee or a burger when she realizes how poor you are. You have this fantasy that the local guys are lazy and/or drunk. Some are, just as there are in any city (homeless, drunkards, both), but the majority are not. Being a university town, there are many cute girls here and about an equal number of good looking guys.
The average looking guys I see with "hot" women all have $$$. We were at a interior designer store selecting some christmas ornaments - Lily Decore. It's a high end place - the ornaments were about $5 to $50 each (USD, not UAH). A very attractive woman was there, a 9 or 10, with an average looking guy, a 5. She had one of the store clerks fill a basket, with her husband handing over his card for the purchase. It was over $300, just on christmas ornaments. Then they got in their Porche Cayenne and headed off. That is your competition for the "hot" women.
Before you say that is a one-off thing, yesterday at the parking lot to my apartment building there were 2 Lexus RX, another Porche Cayenne, a Toyota Highlander and Land Cruiser. My apartment building is old - one of those buildings that is ugly on the exterior with a pristine apartment interior. Nearby are 4 new, modern 20 story apartment buildings, and more are being constructed. There are plenty of guys here earning good money.
In any city there are high earners, and you will be a small fish in a big pond. In small cities and towns, you'll be a stranger that can't speak the language. For the cute, normal girls, you'll be competing with guys who are local, stylish and confident with women. What can you offer against that, if not looks/charisma or $$$/£££?
The rich man card is one that can be played, there's other cards to play also. Then there's getting with a girl where there is chemistry, does she chose that or go off with a rich guy who she doesn't like?
I've done the walking credit card scene once before and it gets tiresome. So like those terms but it's not really for me unless there is no other way.
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Sorry I only get to date hipo rhino wildebeest wart hog in uk in the f s u antelope . Some how my face fits here. Maybe trenches does too.
We are all looking to 'trade up' in FSU. You and I can date hippo rhino wildebeast. Trench can't.
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Trench thinks the lure of his passport will be enough for those poor, abused Ukrainian women to overlook his skintness and escape their awful life with those awful Ukrainian men.
With all those Russian tanks massing on the border I bet Ukrainian girls are lining up with their bums stuck up in the air for the opportunity to have out :D
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Trench very true about the single parent girls. They get offered the position of mistress by fsu guys rarely anything more.
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Oh trench always too much. One of my advantages in my f s u dating I get to look cool by saying little and make the girls do the running. Basically because it takes me a while to figure out what's going on.
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The rich man card is one that can be played,
Hilarious. Trench is planning to take in lodgers to make ends meet.
there's other cards to play also.
More hilarity forthcoming.
Then there's getting with a girl where there is chemistry,
A fantasy for Trench
does she chose that or go off with a rich guy who she doesn't like?
Whatever she does, it won’t be with you....
I've done the walking credit card scene once before and it gets tiresome. So like those terms but it's not really for me unless there is no other way.
Trench must be still paying off those cc bills.
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Surprisingly every one seems very calm and going about daily life here.
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We are all looking to 'trade up' in FSU. You and I can date hippo rhino wildebeast. Trench can't.
Put it this way if I was a girl in the UK but the same person wit the same faults would I have a guy? I think the answer is a definate yes along with a much better dating scene. However as a guy I don't, many other guys don't either and you don't need a lot of issues as a guy to lose out. It's the environment that makes the difference.
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Hang on trench are you about to start cross dressing. New year's resolution ?
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With all those Russian tanks massing on the border I bet Ukrainian girls are lining up with their bums stuck up in the air for the opportunity to have out :D
I guess you need something to w a n k about
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Put it this way if I was a girl in the UK but the same person wit the same faults would I have a guy? I think the answer is a definate yes along with a much better dating scene. However as a guy I don't, many other guys don't either and you don't need a lot of issues as a guy to lose out. It's the environment that makes the difference.
Rubbish. We all find our level. If you can't get ANY girl in the UK, you have more deep-lying issues than your £500 a month.
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You may survive on 500 pounds a month (~650USD) but you will not thrive.
When I spent a month in Minsk about 15 years ago, I stayed in an unrenovated 1 room apartment in the center. The normal rate was 20usd/day, but I got it for 15usd (450usd/month). At the time it wasn't advertised anywhere for rent (i.e., not normally available to foreigners), I think the owner just wanted some cash so moved out for a month. It had a wall full of books.
When I lived in the FSU over a decade ago I was paying around 600usd/month, again a 1 room apartment. It was by complete chance I found the place and would not have found it without local assistance. Prices in that city seemed to have not moved much due to a property collapse and currency devaluation.
It is possible to get something for less than these prices today in most FSU cities but you need language skills, no if no buts. Be aware that agent commission fees can often be one month rent. In my experience the rental market is extremely fluid and agreements can literally be written on a napkin. So be prepared to have to move at short notice.
You really need a minimum 1,000 pounds/month but more comfortably at least 2,000 pounds a month unless you own the apartment you live in. If you purchase, you would want to budget for around 100 pounds/month for ongoings (heating, utilities, garbage collection, etc.).
This is all just talking about surviving in the FSU. Dating is not necessarily inexpensive. Restaurants are likely to be 50-100% what you pay in western countries; small gifts like flowers cost money; going to the ballet/theater/concerts cost money; and you should offer taxi money. So a "classical" date may cost 50 pounds or more.
You have to remember your demographic and those you want to date. They will compare you with local guys. By comparison you will look poor and old, and without fluent communication. I have no idea how you dress or what your physical appearance looks like, but it costs money to look good (eat well, work out, dress well, grooming, etc.).
No money no honey!
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Rubbish. We all find our level. If you can't get ANY girl in the UK, you have more deep-lying issues than your £500 a month.
I don't want ANY girl. I could never date a fat girl. Even if I did it would be pointless, no way I could ever get hard over a fat girl.
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I don't want ANY girl. I could never date a fat girl. Even if I did it would be pointless, no way I could ever get hard over a fat girl.
I don't get off on bashing you Trench, but I agree with some who feel that you give newbies here poor advice and the wrong impression of what to expect.
It won't do your skills any harm to go on a few dates. Beggers can't be choosers unless you want to be empty-handed forever.
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This whole thread is a satire on a site dedicated to women willing to leave their homes, culture and family for a first world life, there is a 1st world man willing to live a 3rd world lifestyle in a culture he barely understands merely to meet girls. You cant make this up
anyways, enough of my rhetoric
SteveinBoston is correct, don't look at the statistics for income. Throughout the FSU, extra income is earned in most professions that isn't part of the stats, call it bribes, fees, favours whatever.
Like Krimster said, we all could figure out how to live a 3rd world lifestyle with a 3rd world equivalent income, BUT WHY??? Trench(if you aren't a troll) you are most valuable to a nice FSU lady in the UK. Prepare a home for her, earn extra income, understand all the benefits of a UK citizenship for her
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I don't get off on bashing you Trench, but I agree with some who feel that you give newbies here poor advice and the wrong impression of what to expect.
It won't do your skills any harm to go on a few dates. Beggers can't be choosers unless you want to be empty-handed forever.
I would rather be empty handed, I would never except a fatties, that whole scene is just a turnoff for me. I'm a man who makes effort, I often find a lot of fat girls are lazy and that jars with my mindset, that's even before you get to the state they are in which they think you should find 'acceptable' :o
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Genmish ok trench throws in some funnies but why not a thread on living with women in the fsu some of us are more adventurous than wanting to live in our own rather boring countries. A challenge like this can make a man rebourn. How did a pioneer country like the USA raise so many risk adverse men. ?
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I judge a country by the number of MacDonald restaurants it has. The more it has the more backward and third world the culture. Maybe not the technology but definetly the culture.
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There is a reality TV show in Ukraine called Blind Marriage. Two single strangers are set up by marriage councilors/psychologists, see each other at the alter after saying "I do" (the bride wears a blinded veil) and live together for a week.
They are given an apartment/house. Each chips a certain amount into an envelop, prior to the wedding, and they have to use that for the week's groceries/dining out/entertainment. Most have been about 4000 UAH, although I saw one episode where the woman put in 500 UAH (the guy put in a bank card - I didn't understand how much was in the account). The next day's grocery shopping is the one of the more interesting scenes, mostly because I can't follow their conversations.
So, 16,000 UAH per month for expenses other than rent. These couples go to the normal grocery stores rather than the markets, and are not making an effort to pinch pennies.
Realistic budget for anyone who is reading this other than Trench and are interesting in trying to live in Ukraine and find someone for a serious relationship - $1500 per month. Either as disposable or remote earnings income.
FSU relationships are not for those who are bargain hunting. It's for those who, for whatever reason, are not getting along long term with the women they date at home and would like to explore the possibility of meeting someone over there (well, here in my case atm).
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You have to remember your demographic and those you want to date. They will compare you with local guys. By comparison you will look poor and old, and without fluent communication. I have no idea how you dress or what your physical appearance looks like, but it costs money to look good (eat well, work out, dress well, grooming, etc.).
No money no honey!
According to the official stats though the Average Ukrainian wage is somewhere around £300 per month. Some may earn some money on the side but it's not likely to be a lot. There's only so much time in a week. They may not pay a lot in rent but a lot will have these costs and living costs. Compared to them I WILL be more wealthier. Moreso living and working in my home country granted. Remember the above us the average wage and many won't get that. Add to that many post 25 age girls will be the ones left in the shelf so many will be willing to consider any reasonable prospect.
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Genmish ok trench throws in some funnies but why not a thread on living with women in the fsu some of us are more adventurous than wanting to live in our own rather boring countries. A challenge like this can make a man rebourn. How did a pioneer country like the USA raise so many risk adverse men. ?
I hear you James
I didn't say it wouldn't be adventurous or fun for Trench, I just think the best strategy for him and his future wife is for him to stay in the UK and prepare a prosperous household. As for me, no way, I could not move. I have been there too often, and I don't like it even staying in nice places.
but to be honest, part of me wants him to move to Minsk because he will share his daily ups and downs. It would be priceless, worthy of a reality TV program
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According to the official stats though the Average Ukrainian wage is somewhere around £300 per month. Some may earn some money on the side but it's not likely to be a lot. There's only so much time in a week. They may not pay a lot in rent but a lot will have these costs and living costs. Compared to them I WILL be more wealthier. Moreso living and working in my home country granted. Remember the above us the average wage and many won't get that. Add to that many post 25 age girls will be the ones left in the shelf so many will be willing to consider any reasonable prospect.
Yes. All your suppositions are correct. Real experiences of those of us spending some time here are incorrect. I have to leave the apartment at odd hours and with a scarf to cover my features to avoid the scores of 26+ beauties lined up outside.
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Yes. All your suppositions are correct. Real experiences of those of us spending some time here are incorrect. I have to leave the apartment at odd hours and with a scarf to cover my features to avoid the scores of 26+ beauties lined up outside.
Ok you may not hit it right on the nail with looks or an athletic frame, but you have your wad and you can win by being one of the guys in line for the till with credit card in hand. What about winning on other fronts though, those with looks, athletic frame, great chemistry or at least offset with some/part of those?
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Genmish ok trench throws in some funnies but why not a thread on living with women in the fsu some of us are more adventurous than wanting to live in our own rather boring countries. A challenge like this can make a man rebourn. How did a pioneer country like the USA raise so many risk adverse men. ?
I'm not risk averse and I'd recommend anyone to push the boundaries of their comfort zone - but I wouldn't encourage someone who didn't speak the local language, has no career or trade behind them and can only bring in £500 p/m to live on to move to another country to score with endless amounts of hot women. That's just stupid.
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I judge a country by the number of MacDonald restaurants it has. The more it has the more backward and third world the culture. Maybe not the technology but definetly the culture.
Jamesukjames most of the larger towns and cities in the UK have at least a few McDonald's plus a full slate of US fast food restaurants plus a full slate of UK fast food restaurants.
So what you're saying is the UK is really a 3rd world country and culture.
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Genmish ok trench throws in some funnies but why not a thread on living with women in the fsu some of us are more adventurous than wanting to live in our own rather boring countries. A challenge like this can make a man rebourn. How did a pioneer country like the USA raise so many risk adverse men. ?
I've spent more than half my life living abroad and while living in Moscow met Americans, Brits and others working in Russia who had previously never left their local area let alone their country.
Some of them, men and women, were so homesick, so lonely they literally wept. They had left on a grand adventure only to discover they didn't know how to cope with living in a country where they didn't have any friends or family, didn't speak the language or understand the culture or know how to talk to locals who didn't speak English. I would hate to think how they would have done in places like India, China, Japan or other countries that are even more exotic than Russia.
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I've spent more than half my life living abroad and while living in Moscow met Americans, Brits and others working in Russia who had previously never left their local area let alone their country.
Some of them, men and women, were so homesick, so lonely they literally wept. They had left on a grand adventure only to discover they didn't know how to cope with living in a country where they didn't have any friends or family, didn't speak the language or understand the culture or know how to talk to locals who didn't speak English. I would hate to think how they would have done in places like India, China, Japan or other countries that are even more exotic than Russia.
Well I hope you directed them to the online dating sites where they could get a few hotties in to perk them up :P
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According to the official stats though the Average Ukrainian wage is somewhere around £300 per month. Some may earn some money on the side but it's not likely to be a lot. There's only so much time in a week. They may not pay a lot in rent but a lot will have these costs and living costs. Compared to them I WILL be more wealthier. Moreso living and working in my home country granted. Remember the above us the average wage and many won't get that. Add to that many post 25 age girls will be the ones left in the shelf so many will be willing to consider any reasonable prospect.
It's a median wage. As for the gray economy, in 2017, it was estimated to be 47% of income, and has dropped to about a third of income in 2018.
What you have failed to consider it that incomes vary widely depending on what region one lives in. In regions where foreigners are more accepted (Kyiv, Odessa), your proposed monthly income is low. In regions where it would be higher than the average wage, there is a tendency to lock out foreigners, even resent them.
Finally, what you are not considering is that most Ukrainians own their homes, a legacy of Soviet times. For most of them, housing, which is a major cost for Westerners, is practically zero.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
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Jamesukjames most of the larger towns and cities in the UK have at least a few McDonald's plus a full slate of US fast food restaurants plus a full slate of UK fast food restaurants.
So what you're saying is the UK is really a 3rd world country and culture.
He could go to North Korea - no McDonald's there. I don't think Iran has any either. I'm certain they are both examples of advanced, democratic countries.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
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I walked around today and looked at couples. What I noticed 1 percent groomed beards rest clean shaved. Zero groomed metrosexuals. That's why I fit in 2mm buzz cut and dress like a working man on a day off I fit right in. None of these 500 pound coats that you dry clean. The UK has gone for this sterile groomed look in their men. North Ukraine men look like men and women look good.
This is pretty interesting James. Most of the conventional advice is to wear dress shirt & shoes, trousers, & perhaps a jack. So at least something in the direction of a suit. I've tended to notice that Ukrainian men dress more how you describe though James. My hair is standard short, so not cropped and I usually get it cut before going out there more towards the groomed style. I've heard Ukrainian men tend to go for pretty short hair though that's not really my scene so I figure if it's neat & shortish then that would be near enough.
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This is an article I've just found online by browsing randomly it's pretty hilarious:
http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-42719964
Just demonstrates the fat denial present in many UK woman. The ludicrous thing is that this woman would rather wait till long after all her sisters are married off, through her thirties and we'll into her forties rather than even try and see if not being fat makes a difference. I mean for crying out loud it's something that can be relatively easily reified if tge will is there. It's not like being ginger, a baldie, or poor social skills where it's a real struggle if not impossible to do much about it. Yet the penny never seems to drop with this woman she would rather endure a hard time & great difficulty dating than go on a diet! Truely shocking.
It kind of gauls me when I see far women whinging how they can't get a guy yet aren't willing to do one option available to them to fix the problem. If it were me I would do that in a flash. They just seem to think 'if I hold out long enough some desperate remaining guy would be forced to take me'. Well I know one thing for sure, it certainly won't be me, I would rather remain single than accept that.
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Genmish ok trench throws in some funnies but why not a thread on living with women in the fsu some of us are more adventurous than wanting to live in our own rather boring countries. A challenge like this can make a man rebourn. How did a pioneer country like the USA raise so many risk adverse men. ?
It is not risk aversion but simple economics. He would need a local job to cover his living expenses to make this happen, else eat into any savings he may have.
The reported median salary in the FSU is essentially sustenance living. To live well on a median salary either means a) owning your home, b) living with parents/family or c) both. This doesn't apply to TC. As Boethius said one of the silver linings of post-Soviet space is people owned their homes debt free (if they had one). This is why so many can live on so little.
Simply reading published statistics on the internet does not provide a true indication of living expenses for foreigners in the FSU.
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It is not risk aversion but simple economics. He would need a local job to cover his living expenses to make this happen, else eat into any savings he may have.
The reported median salary in the FSU is essentially sustenance living. To live well on a median salary either means a) owning your home, b) living with parents/family or c) both. This doesn't apply to TC. As Boethius said one of the silver linings of post-Soviet space is people owned their homes debt free (if they had one). This is why so many can live on so little.
Simply reading published statistics on the internet does not provide a true indication of living expenses for foreigners in the FSU.
I agree that the median average salary for Ukraine or Belarus is probably just sustenance and those on lower salary probably either supplement their income by fair means or foul if they can. Some of course won't be able to do that and for some they will have a miserably poor existence. Those on median income making a sustenance existence are probably not living life up a lot. I guess to live comfortably long term the answer is probably to increase disposable income to 1k a month. That should do it, another thing is to buy a property but it's probably a safer investment to invest at home and use rental income to rent abroad and it gives scope to move around a bit. Airbnb of property abroad is possible I guess but then that reduces time that can be spent there so again may be easier to keep the investments at home.
Living for just a few months at a time I guess is possible and allows for savings to take the strain a bit more. Ukraine can be a fun place but kind of dodgy. I kind of like the police state system in Belarus, it seems to make it a safer alternative than Ukraine at least at the moment.
Thing that is wearing on me is the society on the UK. I just don't like the way it is geared and don't see that changing any time soon. It's all feminist influenced and it's something I have to live under on a daily basis. In the FSU I feel free to be a man without having to accept any feminist virtues or live under them. I'm not having to constantly see fat women either. It's the whole value system that is different and pleasing to me in the FSU. It's kind of like I'm not living the real me on the UK, that I can't act like a man should like in the FSU in interacting with women & dating and it's kind of oppressive almost like I've been castrated. Perhaps I need to claim asylum somewhere in the FSU against feminism.
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I agree that the median average salary for Ukraine or Belarus is probably just sustenance and those on lower salary probably either supplement their income by fair means or foul if they can. Some of course won't be able to do that and for some they will have a miserably poor existence. Those on median income making a sustenance existence are probably not living life up a lot. I guess to live comfortably long term the answer is probably to increase disposable income to 1k a month. That should do it, another thing is to buy a property but it's probably a safer investment to invest at home and use rental income to rent abroad and it gives scope to move around a bit. Airbnb of property abroad is possible I guess but then that reduces time that can be spent there so again may be easier to keep the investments at home.
Living for just a few months at a time I guess is possible and allows for savings to take the strain a bit more. Ukraine can be a fun place but kind of dodgy. I kind of like the police state system in Belarus, it seems to make it a safer alternative than Ukraine at least at the moment.
Thing that is wearing on me is the society on the UK. I just don't like the way it is geared and don't see that changing any time soon. It's all feminist influenced and it's something I have to live under on a daily basis. In the FSU I feel free to be a man without having to accept any feminist virtues or live under them. I'm not having to constantly see fat women either. It's the whole value system that is different and pleasing to me in the FSU. It's kind of like I'm not living the real me on the UK, that I can't act like a man should like in the FSU in interacting with women & dating and it's kind of oppressive almost like I've been castrated. Perhaps I need to claim asylum somewhere in the FSU against feminism.
Trench why don't you believe RWD members such as Boethius, myself and others who have lived in various parts of the FSU for not just a few weeks or months but for years on end? We've repeatedly told you that you don't know what you're talking about regarding life in the FSU or FSUW. There's a big difference between taking a two or three week vacation in Ukraine vs living there for months. Your ideas of living and possibly working in the FSU are pure fantasy and not achievable.
Do you think Boethius and I are part of various FSU intelligence agencies trying to keep naive Brits out of our countries and keep them from molesting and stealing our women? Do you think Putin is paying us to discourage western men from taking rescuing FSUW and taking them to safety in Europe or America?
I spent much of my younger years as an adult (30s) living in London. Never had any problems meeting women. If you don't like looking at specific types of women, fat women, skinny women, women in burkas, etc my advice is don't look at them.
If you feel you can't be the real you living in the UK you have some type of psychological disorder. Groups of women are not conspiring to keep you from dating and getting laid or married. If up feel you're being castrated it is not happening it's all in your imagination.
If what you've just posted is your honest opinion of your life then I suggest you immediately seek counseling. I don't know if psychological counseling is covered by the UK healthcare if it isn't I would suggest you pay for it yourself.
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I some what agree with trench as to the castrating feminism of the UK. Personally I've dated career women In the f s u who would just loose too much trying to retrain to continue their careers in the UK. Trench will have his rental income from UK and will have to go back to UK due to no.residency visa. While in uk he just has to harvest maximum sterling until his return to f s u. Better than marrying to import a woman into UK via marriage and lose all his capital in divorce.
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My quality of life is way better in ukraine. Supermarket in bottom of apartment block. Gym swimming pool nearby. If you use the local facilities and act normal you soon get adopted by the local community with none of the typical western questions to pigeon hole you like salary and job and house value. Clean air to breath and miles of snowy walks. Plus the coolest seconds count down traffic lights.
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I'm way happier dating single parent women in the f s u than I was in the u k. Much kinder natured women.
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I'm way happier dating single parent women in the f s u than I was in the u k. Much kinder natured women.
My experience was somewhat different ....
I met one Russian single Ma who was THE most determined biz woman but allowed her 5 yr old kid to watch the film 'Face off' if she couldn't sleep
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This is an article I've just found online by browsing randomly it's pretty hilarious:
http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-42719964
Just demonstrates the fat denial present in many UK woman. The ludicrous thing is that this woman would rather wait till long after all her sisters are married off, through her thirties and we'll into her forties rather than even try and see if not being fat makes a difference. I mean for crying out loud it's something that can be relatively easily reified if tge will is there. It's not like being ginger, a baldie, or poor social skills where it's a real struggle if not impossible to do much about it. Yet the penny never seems to drop with this woman she would rather endure a hard time & great difficulty dating than go on a diet! Truely shocking.
It kind of gauls me when I see far women whinging how they can't get a guy yet aren't willing to do one option available to them to fix the problem. If it were me I would do that in a flash. They just seem to think 'if I hold out long enough some desperate remaining guy would be forced to take me'. Well I know one thing for sure, it certainly won't be me, I would rather remain single than accept that.
So Trench takes article about an Indian woman and her life story to try and justify his abhorrence of fat English women.
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I agree that the median average salary for Ukraine or Belarus is probably just sustenance and those on lower salary probably either supplement their income by fair means or foul if they can. Some of course won't be able to do that and for some they will have a miserably poor existence. Those on median income making a sustenance existence are probably not living life up a lot. I guess to live comfortably long term the answer is probably to increase disposable income to 1k a month. That should do it, another thing is to buy a property but it's probably a safer investment to invest at home and use rental income to rent abroad and it gives scope to move around a bit. Airbnb of property abroad is possible I guess but then that reduces time that can be spent there so again may be easier to keep the investments at home.
Living for just a few months at a time I guess is possible and allows for savings to take the strain a bit more. Ukraine can be a fun place but kind of dodgy. I kind of like the police state system in Belarus, it seems to make it a safer alternative than Ukraine at least at the moment.
Thing that is wearing on me is the society on the UK. I just don't like the way it is geared and don't see that changing any time soon. It's all feminist influenced and it's something I have to live under on a daily basis. In the FSU I feel free to be a man without having to accept any feminist virtues or live under them. I'm not having to constantly see fat women either. It's the whole value system that is different and pleasing to me in the FSU. It's kind of like I'm not living the real me on the UK, that I can't act like a man should like in the FSU in interacting with women & dating and it's kind of oppressive almost like I've been castrated]/b{. Perhaps I need to claim asylum somewhere in the FSU against feminism.
Trench showing his true colours here.
In the FSU he can be a real man.
He can’t pull a bird in his own backyard and has delusions that in the FSU women are going to be falling at his feet ( all dressed in short skirts of course, for his viewing pleasure)
Trench, FSU women are strong willed. They won’t put up with the claptrap you spout here.
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Trench showing his true colours here.
In the FSU he can be a real man.
He can’t pull a bird in his own backyard and has delusions that in the FSU women are going to be falling at his feet ( all dressed in short skirts of course, for his viewing pleasure)
Trench, FSU women are strong willed. They won’t put up with the claptrap you spout here.
Agreed. He comes off as a womanhating bitter man and that attitude will turn off women everywhere. You can't run from yourself, better work on the problems before even thinking about making such a dramatic change as moving to a country where you understand very little. Will probably only bring more bitterness....
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Come early August 2019 all being well I'll be able to rent out two decent rooms to Lodgers.
Plus have a small one for myself. That will bring me in approximately £500 per month.
Not a lot by UK standards but quite a lot by Belarus or Ukraine standards.
Rent out the room(s) save the money and make as much money as you can in the UK
and continue to make trips until you find a good girl who likes you. You don't want to
be in the FSU living on such a tight budget. If you told me you had $5K per month
then I would be more supportive, but what you have is poverty type money.
You could probably figure out a way to make a couple hundred per month teaching
English but you would still be in poverty and what happens if one of the punters
renting your apartment eats too many beans and plugs up the toilet and then
the whole thing floods and the downstairs neighbors ceiling smells like mold
and punter poop? Renting out rooms is not a job you want to do from a distance.
You are a cheapskate without living in poverty, just imagine what kind of skinflint you
would be living in actual poverty? As usual you are doing everything for the wrong reasons.
You are afraid some rich or richer UK dewd will steal the girl you find away from you
when you bring her back to Blighty and/or she will divorce you and take all your money
forever more because of UK divorce courts and laws.
So you think that by marrying her in Belarus that you won't get taken to the cleaners by
a judge and you won't have rich dewds stealing your girl away. If things go to crap then
you can ditch the girl and have little consequences to your pocketbook.
Stop the stinkin' thinkin' find a good girl and bring her back to the UK. There is some girl
somewhere who will like you for the person you are. Stop trying to skip steps, stop trying
to avoid the hard work that is required.
STOP IT!
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He doesn't have an income level sufficient to sponsor a woman into the UK, and doesn't seem to want to increase it so that he can.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
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Agreed. He comes off as a womanhating bitter man and that attitude will turn off women
everywhere. You can't run from yourself, better work on the problems before even thinking
about making such a dramatic change as moving to a country where you understand very little.
Will probably only bring more bitterness....
I think that he got burned a few times, that he lacks any sort of confidence and that has
twisted his perspective completely out of kilter. He lacks medium level social skills and that
causes him to attempt all these shortcuts.
I think that he pursues girls a couple levels out of his league and tries to compensate with
what he thinks women really want and he looks for desperate women thinking that
they will appreciate his help.
There is a girl out there for him, but he'll never find her, because of his goofball plans
and theories.
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He doesn't have an income level sufficient to sponsor a woman into the UK, and doesn't
seem to want to increase it so that he can.
Really? I thought it was a ridiculously low amount like £18,600 ($23,457 usd)
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I don't know what it is, but I know the UK posters had noted it in responding to Trench.
The failure to meet the income threshold is Trench's decision. He has decided not to work more than he does. If he moves to the FSU, he will not be able to move a wife to the UK if he chooses to move back until he can meet the minimum income threshold.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
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I don't know what it is, but I know the UK posters had noted it in responding to Trench.
Are you sure they weren't just insulting him? They can be a little bit harsh with him.
The failure to meet the income threshold is Trench's decision. He has decided not to work
more than he does. If he moves to the FSU, he will not be able to move a wife to the UK
if he chooses to move back until he can meet the minimum income threshold.
There was a guy from Canada that had a similar problem. He ended up losing his visa in
Russia and then had to work for a while in order to get her relocated with him. They are
both still together, but this guy had a lot more gumption than most. You know him from
the forums but I don't want to say the name in case I got the facts slightly mixed up.
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Really? I thought it was a ridiculously low amount like £18,600 ($23,457 usd)
It is, when it was first brought in there was complaints amount the amount. Since then inflation has meant that many more people find it easier to meet this threshold. I could do by taking on a few more hours from the standard 37.5 hours per week I am presently on at £16k per year. No point doing this until I meet a woman though as I can make more money by converting my house.
No don't worry Bill I wasn't saying I was going to move to the FSU it just something that has its appeal at times. I will shortly be leading up to another trip out to the FSU, Minsk most likely. This time I will be following ML's strategy of WMVM. I'm pretty confident that I could do it this time :)
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I could do by taking on a few more hours from the standard 37.5 hours per week I am presently on at £16k per year. No point doing this until I meet a woman though as I can make more money by converting my house.
If you meet a woman in say, January, or July, you will have to earn the minimum income for that entire year, meaning that you may lose an entire year, perhaps more, before you can even sponsor a woman. That is because the threshold requirement is based on 12 months of income.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
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Are you sure they weren't just insulting him? They can be a little bit harsh with him.
No, they pointed to what he states his income is, and the minimum requirements.
As for the Canadian, I can't think of who you are referring to, however, if one is sponsoring a spouse, there is no minimum income requirement.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
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I think that he pursues girls a couple levels out of his league and tries to compensate with
what he thinks women really want
Well I think there is something in this. The girl I was with last year in the UK would be near enough a 10. In Ukraine probably around an 8 or so.
Now I've attracted high level girls before 'but' have been lacking on the street cred/social skills thing that meant I was a). Not a credible contender, and b). Would probably not have lasted long with her had I actually managed to get with her.
In all honesty I should probably avoid girls that are too hot as they tend to expect certain expectations. In my prime in the right circumstance maybe I might match up near enough and if the girl was real into me, but now I can't really discount the reality of age & other issues.
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If you meet a woman in say, January, or July, you will have to earn the minimum income for that entire year, meaning that you may lose an entire year, perhaps more, before you can even sponsor a woman. That is because the threshold requirement is based on 12 months of income.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
Not necessarily, in the UK it can be just the previous 6 months before application. Now consider how long it will likely take just to get to marriage stage with a girl.
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Are you sure of that? I thought it is based on twelve months of income or savings, which must be proven.
Perhaps a UK poster can confirm.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
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I''f you’re using income from self-employment or employment, you’ll need to prove you or your partner received that income for 6 months or more.''
http://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa/proof-income (http://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa/proof-income)
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Are you sure of that? I thought it is based on twelve months of income or savings, which must be proven.
Perhaps a UK poster can confirm.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
Employment must cover six consecutive months before the application and evidence of self-employment must normally cover the latest financial year.
Savings should cover 6 months as well.
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It is, when it was first brought in there was complaints amount the amount. Since then inflation has meant that many more people find it easier to meet this threshold. I could do by taking on a few more hours from the standard 37.5 hours per week I am presently on at £16k per year. No point doing this until I meet a woman though as I can make more money by converting my house.
Good grief, you are too stupid for me to waste another second of my time.
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2tallbill this is the UK restoring your house makes way more money than working for some one else. I went from nothing to nearly 2m before divorce doing exactly this.
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I'm fairly certain I'm in sugar daddies apartment and went on holidays funded partly by sugar daddy. Obviously I'm not going to marry this girl or I will become sugar daddy and it will be rinse and repeat.
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Why are you still there? If you think it's over then move on. Plenty of fish in the seas.
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2tallbill this is the UK restoring your house makes way more money than working for some one else. I went from nothing to nearly 2m before divorce doing exactly this.
Not in the way Trench is doing. You were probably buying houses, renovating them and then selling on at a profit.
Trench is renovating some bedrooms ( read that as the decorating) his Mums house to take in lodgers.
With that rental income he plans to fund his stays in Ukraine/ Belarus.
Trench is already working a full time job for 16k. That seems to be a low level clerical/admin type job. I doubt there’s much scope for overtime to bring his income up to the minimum requirement of £18600.
On the other hand he tells us he’s going to stay in the FSU for extended periods funded by his measly rental income. I would assume that means giving up his current job.
So his sums don’t add up.
Sorry Trench, no money, no honey.
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Trench is already working a full time job for 16k.
Seems I remember him saying he was not working full time for that money; but that he could put in more hours.
I could be wrong.
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Seems I remember him saying he was not working full time for that money; but that he could put in more hours.
I could be wrong.
I see no fault in your recollection of Trench's assertions ;)
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Seems I remember him saying he was not working full time for that money; but that he could put in more hours.
I could be wrong.
I could do by taking on a few more hours from the standard 37.5 hours per week I am presently on at £16k per year. No point doing this until I meet a woman though as I can make more money by converting my house.
37.5 hrs per week is a considered a full working week. I doubt many employers would want to dole out overtime pay regularly.
I see the troll can’t help himself, again.
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Sighs,
here we go again ...
37.5 hrs per week is a considered a full working week.
'Sorry', but by whom ? NOT by me ...
The UK / US are but two examples of this being the norm - with overtime due after these hours ...
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If you think laterally anyone can earn 30000 before tax for 40 hours that leaves time for renervations. Thankfully I do all kinds of things and project manage and since I got the f s u addiction I must admit the daily grind holds little appeal. Luckily I just finished a mega project
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Sighs,
here we go again ...
'Sorry', but by whom ? NOT by me ...
The UK / US are but two examples of this being the norm - with overtime due after these hours ...
Everything over 35 hours/week is considered full time employment. Everything over 40 hours/week is considered full time + overtime :) (here)
aaaand according to Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full-time
Australia: approximately 38 hours[1]
Belgium: 38 hours
Brazil: 40–44 hours[citation needed]
Chile: 45 hours[citation needed]
Denmark: 37 hours
France: 35 hours (government-mandated)[2]
Germany: 35–40 hours
Iceland: 40 hours
India: 48 hours (as per the Factories Act 1948, a person cannot work for more than 48 hours in a week)
Taiwan: 40 hours[3]
Israel: 43 hours
Italy: 40 hours
Netherlands: 35–40 hours[4]
Norway: 40 hours[5] (often regulated to 37.5 excl. lunch break)
Poland: 40 hours
Russia: 40 hours
Sweden: 40 hours (not formally defined)[6]
United Kingdom: 35 hours (not formally defined),[7] 37.5 hours, or 40 hours contracts are all commonplace.
United States: 30 hours or more, according to the definitions in the Affordable Care Act.[8][9][10][11] "The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) does not define full-time employment or part-time employment. This is a matter generally to be determined by the employer."[12]
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Nightwish UK has the European working time directive. Most employers gently suggest you sign that right away many desk jockeys work 60 hours a week as do most construction workers. Because if someone's going to pay us were going to stick 2 fingers up to Europe.
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In the US employees are categorized as exempt or non exempt. Hourly workers are regulated at 40 hours per week, with any time beyond counted as overtime. Each state also has other restrictions - for example, Massachusetts dictate no one can work more than 7 consecutive days without a day off, regardless of overtime pay.
Salaried (career) workers can be encouraged to work 50/60/70+ hours per week, informally via peer pressure for yearly reviews/promotions/bonuses, or by "suggestions" from management, without additional pay.
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Everything over 35 hours/week is considered full time employment. Everything over 40 hours/week is considered full time + overtime :) (here)
aaaand according to Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full-time
You neglected to post THIS part:
"The examples and perspective in this article may not represent a worldwide view of the subject. "
I appreciate this is very subjective, but the point I was making is that working to a 40 hours a week contract is not considered to be onerous / unusual in the US / UK as a full time contract
I also appreciate that IS 'onerous' in other EU nations
Lastly I hope YOU appreciate we're ( contextually ) talking Trench = UK
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Not necessarily, in the UK it can be just the previous 6 months before application. Now consider how long it will likely take just to get to marriage stage with a girl.
LOL you are a riot Trench, very amusing :) Your 'forward thinking' is when you lean way over and stick your head 'up there'.
I can imagine the scenario... you 'magically' meet 'the one' and she's ready and wants to leave with you soonest... 'Sorry hun.. have to go find a better job and work before I can apply for the partner visa... See ya in 6 months++, sorry won't be able to visit in the meantime... Will send you a one way ticket."
Impressive.
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You forgot the part where she finds out you don't drive a quality German car.
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In the US employees are categorized as exempt or non exempt. Hourly workers are regulated at 40 hours per week, with any time beyond counted as overtime. Each state also has other restrictions - for example, Massachusetts dictate no one can work more than 7 consecutive days without a day off, regardless of overtime pay.
Generally, 40 hours is the measure separating regular from overtime. But not always. Certain trade is mandated by how many hours they actually work as a regular shift in a given 24 hour period. Nurses could work 12 hrs/day, 3 days/week and is deemed as full-time schedule, or an equivalent of working the full 5-40. Firemen, flight attendants, etc..also have their own schedule constituting their own 'full time' status.
Salaried (career) workers can be encouraged to work 50/60/70+ hours per week, informally via peer pressure for yearly reviews/promotions/bonuses, or by "suggestions" from management, without additional pay.
I employ field superintendents in both hourly (union) and salaried format. For those opting to be on straight salaried payroll, they're usually on a much higher rate of pay. They do not get paid 'OT', but they never miss a full check regardless of our workload. They work 10 hrs. in a week, they get full pay. No work for a week, they get full pay, etc...But then, they work Saturdays, weekends, etc...no premium pay.
As for performance, I give my crew bonus incentives for each project. Anything beyond 'projected profit margin (exc. overhead)', it will be sliced and divided to various players responsible. I challenge them to 'beat my cost'. It's worked out well for all of us.
EOY bonuses is a separate package and strictly for merit and dedication.
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Trench, why are you trying to romance yourself, instead of romancing ladies? Like Boe said, you're romanticising living in the FSU. You want to make a girl get dreamy eyed, and want to drop everything and move to a different country to be with you.
You view relationships and sex as a transactional exchange. The only thing you will attract with this mindset are prostitutes and gold diggers. Until you change your mindset, that's the best you can hope for.
You are deeply bitter and resentful about so many women being fat, and bitter and resentful about not having a girl. While you are a jackass about it, there is one extremely important good thing about it. It means that you believe you deserve better than the options you see before you. People go for what they believe they deserve.
I'm going to throw you a few bones. I'm going to assume that deep down, you have some qualities that some woman could find endearing. First, forget the BS advice most of the guys on here are giving you about how to attract women. Their advice works for extroverts, and if you are an introvert, their advice is worthless. Introverts have other qualities, which are extremely powerful on women. Women want romance. Women want an emotional connection. But what does this really mean, and how do we do that?
Boe used to have a tagline quote from Dostoyevsky - to love someone means to see them as God sees them. I think pitbull has used a tagline about being the person your dog thinks you are. You need to understand what they are really saying, and what this really means. These scream ROMANCE. These scream imagining things to be better than they really are, and also seeing someone's potential.
ro·man·ti·cize: deal with or describe in an idealized or unrealistic fashion; make (something) seem better or more appealing than it really is.
Many guys go crazy over porn. We are visually stimulated. But what nobody really talks about, is that women are just as addicted to porn. (if not even more so.) The only thing is, it's in a different form. Women love mental porn, from chick flick movies to romance novels. Women are mentally stimulated.
I'm going to teach you a way that any guy can get a girl out of his league, because there is no girl out of your league. And the part that will appeal to your cheapskate nature, this can be done dirt cheap. This method will not get every girl, but you are not looking to marry any girl. But if it does get a girl's attention, she will be VERY interested in you. As an added bonus, this method is a 99% sure method of weeding out gold-diggers and finding very good girls.
Do not use this method on any girl. Pick a handful of the hottest girls you are interested in. (Don't write 50 or 100 women. This works so good that you won't have time to deal with all the women wanting your attention.) Be very, very picky.
I read a study once, that found that if you want someone to fall in love with you, all you need to do is be as nice as possible to them every day for 60 days. After 60 days, you can treat them like crap, and they will still love you.
I want you to compile 60 folders. In each folder, I want you to make a photo essay. I want you to write a truthful story about yourself, or things you have done, and include pictures. I also want you to write it in Russian. You can use Google translate, but translate it one sentence at a time, choosing the translation that makes the most sense. (I will explain why I want you to write in Russian later.) Do not complain about anything, or be negative in these photo essays.
For example, the way I would do it, I might take a few photos of my backyard chicken flock, and a few photos of raising baby chicks. I would talk about having chickens, and how I enjoy raising baby chicks and trying to breed better chickens. I cull out hens that don't lay many eggs, and skinny or mean roosters. (To a guy, we might think talking about this is stupid. To a girl, it brings back memories of gathering eggs with her grandma on the farm, or chicken dinner, or playing with baby chicks when she was a little girl. It doesn't matter what she remembers or daydreams about - the only thing important is that it caused an emotional reaction in her mind...and because you triggered that emotional reaction, she creates an emotional connection with you.)
My next door neighbor lady is 78 years old. She has smoked her whole life, and has breathing problems. She is on oxygen and is pretty much housebound. Her daughters live about an hour away. Every day, I bring in her mail and her paper. I take out her trash. I mow her yard in the summer, and go to the store and get groceries for her. The lady and her daughters have agreed that I can buy her 10 acres after she dies. (To a girl, it shows how caring and considerate I am of old people...and how I might treat her when she gets that old. I'm showing her that I am a white knight, without trying to flaunt it.)
I might show a girl a picture of me with my niece at her wedding. I can talk about how I would catch wild baby bunnies, baby raccoons, a baby flying squirrel, etc. and gave them to my niece when she was little. (Women love baby animals - it makes their maternal instincts kick in.) My oldest sister was a single mom, so I was a little involved in her kid's lives growing up. When my niece and nephew got a beagle puppy, I built a doghouse for it. I would mow my sister's lawn. One Christmas when my niece and nephew were probably 12 or 13, I bought them 10 speed mountain bikes from Walmart. My niece has said told people that I was the cool uncle. (The girl you are writing is going to be remembering the joy and excitement she had when she was a little girl, holding a baby bunny or playing with small animals. Maybe she had a bike, and remembers the funtimes she had on it. Or maybe she didn't have a bike, but she wanted one - when I tell her about buying my niece a bike, the girl fantasizes about how much fun it would have been to be able to ride everywhere, with the wind in her hair. And also, the girl is thinking what a good family man I am.)
When I was 26, my Aunt lived in South Dakota and was moving back home to be closer to family. My brother and I drove out to help her move back, but we turned it into a 2 week vacation. We went out to Yellowstone, Devil's Tower, Craters of the Moon, the Upper and Lower Mesa Falls, the Badlands, Mt. Rushmore, Jewel Cave, etc. I took tons of pics. (First, the girl thinks about how family is important to me. Secondly, she imagines what it would be like to be with me, seeing those sights. When do you a photo essay, she fantasizes that she is with you too.)
I normally run about 100 hives of honeybees. I have some nice pics of my hives at different places, and pics of me selling honey at farmers markets and craft shows. I can talk about bees all day long. I can write about how I was working in a machine shop when I got started in bees. A co-worker's elderly father had a stroke and was unable to take care of his bees anymore, so the coworker was selling the bees and honey equipment. I had a little extra money in my pocket, so I bought the stuff. (The girl sees that I have extra money saved back that I can splurge sometimes. She may have fond memories of eating honey from her childhood. Maybe she has a relative that keeps bees. And she can see that I am entrepreneurial, and earning a little money.)
I have 1/2 acre of thornless blackberries. I would write about selling them at farmers markets, etc. I have some nice pictures of the plants loaded with huge, beautiful berries. (The girl may have fond memories of picking berries with her family when she was a little girl, or maybe fresh blackberry pie is her favorite.)
The list of things to write about goes on and on. Just write about your own personal experiences. If you don't have experiences like this to write about, go make and live a little, and gain some experiences. And take some pictures of them. Send a girl one email per week with a photo essay in it. That gives her a whole week to daydream and marinate in her thoughts about you and the experience you shared. Don't worry about not having good social skills. She won't see that. You control what she sees, and what she daydreams about. The big catch is, don't make anything up. Everything you share has to be real. You see, you are becoming the man of her dreams, and you don't want to disappoint her in real life. You can have a zillion flaws, insecurities, and bad habits - she will accept those, as long as you have all the good qualities you shared with her. As long as you can buy the kids bicycles, get the mail for the elderly neighbor lady, go on vacation to Yellowstone and Jewel Cave...you're golden.
What you are doing is imprinting. As long as the girl reads your emails and looks at your photos, it will cause a good emotional reaction. (Keep sending emails, even if the girl doesn't write back.) When you do this over and over, she associates the good feelings she has with puppies, gathering eggs with grandma, blackberry pie, the wind in her hair on her bike, etc. - she associates those feelings with you. When she thinks of you, it makes her experience the feelings she had when she held the baby bunny for the first time, etc.
By writing in Russian, she doesn't notice the language barrier. In her mind, you can communicate easily. You are able to understand each other. (And you can, when you use google translate.) Or once she begins to take a strong interest in you, you can start writing in English to help her improve her skills.
Gold-diggers and fun time girls aren't going to waste their time on some dumb guy writing emails about everyday life. (They will be interested if you are writing about how much money you make, or how much stuff you have.) The girls who want a good family man will be interested in what you write. While other guys are sending dick pics, you are sending pics of fun, everyday life. Which pics do you think the girl will be fantasizing about?
As a girl is interested in you, she will start being more and more engaged, asking you questions about things you did, and she will start sharing her experiences. You will start to click, and you will find yourself having longer and longer conversations.
Some extroverted guys are slick talkers, and can get 20 dates in 20 minutes. You may not get as many dates with this method, but if you do this, the girls you decide to meet will be very interested in you, because you are showing them your inner world. This is one way a guy can build a relationship with a girl over the computer that is not based on money. It's not foolproof, but it will get decent girls interested in you.
Trench, if you don't believe me, ask the women on here what went through their minds when they read about my blackberry patch, my niece and baby bunnies, bicycles, Yellowstone, etc. Ask them if they would have been interested in meeting a man who wrote them emails like I mentioned...even if the guy was an average looking guy. (And I did not discuss how much money I made, how big my house is, etc.) Or would they pass on a guy like this, and go for the tall, dark, and handsome guy with the fancy sports car and the 6 figure salary?
Have you ever heard stories of a woman who walked away from a nice life to go be with some guy she met on the internet? Did you wonder how the guy managed to get the girl? This is how he got the girl. He showed her the best points of his life (or made her believe it was better than it was) - and she began to fantasize what it would be like for her to be living that life with the guy too. Women love romance and fantasy and living in their imaginations. Help the girl to fantasize about being with you.
An unexpected thing is going to happen though Trench. As the girl becomes interested in your inner world, your hopes and dreams, and who you are inside, you are going to start wanting to be able to offer this girl all of life's luxuries. Not because you are afraid someone else will steal her who can offer those things, but because you like her so much you want her to have the best that you can provide. You will start trying to earn more money, and giving her a nicer life, simply because it makes her happy, and you want to show her how much you appreciate having her in your life. You will have the old clunker car, while you let her drive the nice newer car. You'll buy her a pack of cigarettes or a drink, and not think twice about it.
Heck, send a few girls an email with a photo essay like this once a week, and in 2-3 months, tell me if you don't have at least one girl that seems infatuated by you, and wants to talk everyday about anything and everything.
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Saw these beautifully quaint village property for sale in Ukraine, and the most beautifult thing is that they are going dirt cheap :usd:
http://www.uaproperty.com/ua-offers/c1579r/kiev/ukrainian-cottage-for-sale-two-hours-from-kiev/
http://www.uaproperty.com/ua-offers/c1579r/kiev/house-for-sale-near-kiev/
http://www.uaproperty.com/ua-offers/c1579r/great-value-cottage-for-sale-near-kiev-with-internal-bathroom/
Last one puts annual property tax of probably around $20, laughably cheap. They tend to be a bit of a dstance out, about the same as where I live on the south coast to London so not ridiculously far from Kiev but no uber convieniant for it. No doubt stuff a bit closer and slightly higher priced would be more convienient. So Lada would be needed with these ones, but I couldn't dream of a more cheaper and lovely way to live in Ukraine, traditional Ukrainian village house with beautiful lush countryside scenery to enjoy around, no concrete block isores and urban jungle feel. Imagine buying up one of these places with no mortgage and £500 to live one, doable you think? Most have ample land to grow vegatables and fruit to save on supermarket shopping. Maybe I might even spot a nice well breasted village girl that Krim so often mentions :D In the southern England such a place as these would go for a song, maybe at least £200k or more. Thoughts anyone?
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Trench, those are "dachas" not domas
YOU can live in a dacha by yourself if you want to
but don't expect to have a family live inside there
OTOH, I've built a large house by myself in Ukraine for less than $30,000
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They are not necessarily dachas. However, at least one of those properties appears to have farmland, so a foreigner cannot legally own the property. That means when the state decides it's illegal, too bad - confiscated, no compensation. Furthermore, often, such properties don't have indoor plumbing and wood burning stoves.
The probability of "village girls" living there is pretty remote.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
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no BO, it's not setup as farmland, it means they cleared a patch a land...
there are gazillions of these for sale all around kyiv, older ones are off the Borispol airport highway
they're small cabins with gardens...
they aren't bachelor pads, they aren't for families...
they're for camping in during holidays and gardening in spring and summer
I did spend a quiet romantic weekend with my wife in one that had a fireplace
we ended doing an insane thing however
after a heavy snow and ice downpour
we went sledding on Hrushevskoho Street in Kyiv
it must have been a couple of hundred meters of pure downhill ice
I went to the market and bought a bunch of sleds for everyone
and we drove over to the top of Hrushevskoho Street and we sled all the way down!
unfortunately, when you hit the bottom of the hill you're doing 30+ mph
i was able able to keep my sled stable, maybe because I'm heavier
but my wife wasn't and she slid off the street straight into a large puddle!
she was completely soaked, we returned straight away to the dacha
she stripped and laid naked in front of the fire place to get warm
Ukrainian women are tough!!
yet paradoxically so damned damned good loooking!
In general ownership of anything in Ukraine or Russia is always tenuous...
this is the reason why oligarchs NEED to get their money out...
there is no honor among thieves...
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no BO, it's not setup as farmland, it means they cleared a patch a land...
there are gazillions of these for sale all around kyiv, older ones are off the Borispol airport highway
they're small cabins with gardens...
they aren't bachelor pads, they aren't for families...
they're for camping in during holidays and gardening in spring and summer
I did spend a quiet romantic weekend with my wife in one that had a fireplace
we ended doing an insane thing however
after a heavy snow and ice downpour
we went sledding on Hrushevskoho Street in Kyiv
it must have been a couple of hundred meters of pure downhill ice
I went to the market and bought a bunch of sleds for everyone
and we drove over to the top of Hrushevskoho Street and we sled all the way down!
unfortunately, when you hit the bottom of the hill you're doing 30+ mph
i was able able to keep my sled stable, maybe because I'm heavier
but my wife wasn't and she slid off the street straight into a large puddle!
she was completely soaked, we returned straight away to the dacha
she stripped and laid naked in front of the fire place to get warm
Ukrainian women are tough!!
yet paradoxically so damned damned good loooking!
In general ownership of anything in Ukraine or Russia is always tenuous...
this is the reason why oligarchs NEED to get their money out...
there is no honor among thieves...
The state decides what is "agricultural land". There is no definition on size. Two of those photos have plots of land, in villages which traditionally are in agricultural areas. Ukrainian law states that the state can confiscate any "agricultural land", even if inherited, by any person who is not a Ukrainian citizen, within one year of that foreigner's ownership of the land. The state can take such lands by force, with no compensation.
Don't assume that because there are "a gazillion" of such pieces of property, that they are not sold contrary to the law, which frankly, is a little light on detail. At least two of the properties in the photos were, at one time, a villager's primary residence. Most dachas in Ukraine were, at one time, a village home. You don't seem to realize how empty Ukrainian villages are. Even in Soviet times, when the better half was sent to work in rural areas, in many regions, only 10% of the homes were occupied - the further from Kyiv, the emptier the village. Closer to Kyiv, 1/3 to 1/5 of village homes were empty. He could just choose a home to use when he was there.
The difference between a dacha and a village home is, if you live in Kyiv and use a home for the summer, it's a dacha. If you attempt to live there permanently, it's a village home. In Russia, the law has been changed to provide that one can live year round in a dacha, not so in Ukraine.
A significant number of Central Asians (from FSU republics, mostly Azeri and Uzbeki) have moved to empty Ukrainian villages. They are plowing fallow lands. There have been some conflicts, as culturally, they tend to want to "take over" things, often with violence. But, the police come in, and tell them to cut it out, or they'll be deported. That has worked, so far.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
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The state decides what is "agricultural land". There is no definition on size. Two of those photos have plots of land, in villages which traditionally, are in agricultural areas. Ukrainian law states that the state can confiscate any "agricultural land", even if inherited, by any person who is not a Ukrainian citizen, within one year of that foreigner's ownership of the land. The state can take such lands by force, with no compensation.
Don't assume that because there are "a gazillion" of such pieces of property, that they are not sold contrary to the law. At least two of the properties in the photos were, at one time, a villager's primary residence. Most dachas in Ukraine were, at one time, a village home. You don't seem to realize how empty Ukrainian villages are. Even in Soviet times, when the better half was sent to work in rural areas, in many regions, only 10% of the homes were occupied - the further from Kyiv, the emptier the village. Closer to Kyiv, 1/3 to 1/5 of village homes were empty. He could just choose a home to use when he was there.
The difference between a dacha and a village home is, if you live in Kyiv and use a home for the summer, it's a dacha. If you attempt to live there permanently, it's a village home. In Russia, the law has been changed to provide that one can live year round in a dacha, not so in Ukraine.
A significant number of Asians (from FSU republics, mostly Azeri and Uzbeki) have moved to empty Ukrainian villages. They are plowing fallow lands. There have been some conflicts, as culturally, they tend to want to "take over" things, often with violence. But, the police come in, and tell them to cut it out, or they'll be deported. That has worked, so far.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
How would anyone know or be bothered if you did live there year round?
To be honest I would only want to live there during the summer, possibly infrequently a stunt in the winter if scenic to see what it's like, probably not all year around anyway.
Has the Ukrainian government bothered to confiscate any of foreigners of recent? I doubt it would be worth their while if the place are half empty or more anyway, plus it could scare if foreign investment.
Think they could still be handy, when bought, no rent to pay, food could be grown and a wood from surrounding areas to warm the place if needs be. To my mind means I could live in one with £500 a month income whilst looking for a girl perhaps.
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Trench, those are "dachas" not domas
YOU can live in a dacha by yourself if you want to
but don't expect to have a family live inside there
OTOH, I've built a large house by myself in Ukraine for less than $30,000
I heard foreigners could not build new builds out there, only buy existing property to do up.
I could buy one and extend a little as one of the ads suggests. Think it states there is a first school nearby so much be some people living in them.
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no you can build, no law against it
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I am certain that in a village inhabited predominantly by Babas, no one will know who lives there. :rolleyes:
Some bureaucrat causes confiscation of the land, it’s resold, and that bureaucrat takes a cut of the proceeds. This happens in Kyiv all the time. I recall some time ago, an Italian soccer player was embroiled in litigation when his apartment was resold. He returned to find someone living in it.
But go ahead, buy land and live an idyllic village life surrounded by senior citizens.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
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I am certain that in a village inhabited predominantly by Babas, no one will know who lives there. :rolleyes:
Some bureaucrat causes confiscation of the land, it’s resold, and that bureaucrat takes a cut of the proceeds. This happens in Kyiv all the time. I recall some time ago, an Italian soccer player was embroiled in litigation when his apartment was resold. He returned to find someone living in it.
But go ahead, buy land and live an idyllic village life surrounded by senior citizens.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
What if it's down in a joint name such as a foreigner and his Ukrainian girlfriend?
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no you can build, no law against it
How come you never got any of your property confiscated, I assume, Krim?
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What if it's down in a joint name such as a foreigner and his Ukrainian girlfriend?
It doesn't matter. Foreigners cannot be on title to agricultural lands. The same law exists where I live, foreigners cannot own agricultural land. Of course here, it wouldn't be confiscated, just forcibly sold.
You really are obtuse. Krimster did not purchase agricultural land.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
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It doesn't matter. Foreigners cannot be on title to agricultural lands. The same law exists where I live, foreigners cannot own agricultural land. Of course here, it wouldn't be confiscated, just forcibly sold.
You really are obtuse. Krimster did not purchase agricultural land.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
Obtuse, who's being obtuse now?
No Krimster didn't but neither did that Italian guy that owned an apartment.
The website is in English so is aimed at foreigners, why would they offer it if foreigners could not buy. Krimster disagreed that it was agricultural land, perhaps he is right, not so much farm land but holiday retreats - dachas, village buildings, etc that do not qualify as agricultural land because of the small amount of land to grow stuff with them, more like a garden then anything else perhaps?
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No, at least two of those properties have a "plot" of land, similar to what a Ukrainian would cultivate. It is agricultural land. My husband has a classmate whose Danish husband wanted to be on title to a very similar piece of property. He didn't believe her when she told him he couldn't own it, until he sought separate official advice. He did buy the property, but in her name.
The properties may be listed for foreigners, but it is by Ukrainians. I can tell by the syntax. Most of them care not a whit if they sell land illegally, as it has zero effect on them. But, go ahead, invest in something that can be taken away from you with no compensation. You'll at least be enriching some Ukrainian.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
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No, at least two of those properties have a "plot" of land, similar to what a Ukrainian would cultivate. It is agricultural land. My husband has a classmate whose Danish husband wanted to be on title to a very similar piece of property. He didn't believe her when she told him he couldn't own it, until he sought separate official advice. He did buy the property, but in her name.
The properties may be listed for foreigners, but it is by Ukrainians. I can tell by the syntax. Most of them care not a whit if they sell land illegally, as it has zero effect on them. But, go ahead, invest in something that can be taken away from you with no compensation. You'll at least be enriching some Ukrainian.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
Surely there are some sort of certificate of ownership that are exchanged to clear such matters up? I would have thought a Ukrainian solicitor would be on top of such matters if instructing them?
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Why you continue to romanticise/theorise about things like owning Dacha's - other than the fact that the dirt cheap price appeals to you - before you've even got near finding a partner beggars belief...and still you fail to comprehend or listen to advice given to you by people who actually KNOW what they are talking about.
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Ok, what about this one?
http://www.uaproperty.com/ua-offers/c1579r/kiev/property-for-sale-in-kiev-with-large-garden/
A proper house so non agricultural by the looks of it, I would assume.
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"How come you never got any of your property confiscated, I assume, Krim?"
because I sold almost all of it, and what I didn't sell I gave to my sister in law
I no longer own property in either Russia or Ukraine...
wouldn't recommend anyone doing this right now...
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"How come you never got any of your property confiscated, I assume, Krim?"
because I sold almost all of it, and what I didn't sell I gave to my sister in law
I no longer own property in either Russia or Ukraine...
wouldn't recommend anyone doing this right now...
I kind of got the impression over the years there's always been corruption, or do you mean that Russia might invade?
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Here is a couple of videos from the many available.
Sergy does a fine job explaining the "modern" plumbing!
http://youtu.be/WhYEUf1j61g
http://youtu.be/9hLmML6otl8
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Here is a couple of videos from the many available.
Sergy does a fine job explaining the "modern" plumbing!
http://youtu.be/WhYEUf1j61g
http://youtu.be/9hLmML6otl8
Interesting, the first one is more like a glorified shed, the second more towards the links I gave, a more proper looking building.
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"How come you never got any of your property confiscated, I assume, Krim?"
because I sold almost all of it, and what I didn't sell I gave to my sister in law
I no longer own property in either Russia or Ukraine...
wouldn't recommend anyone doing this right now...
Why you wouldn't recommend anyone buying a property?
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There has been a lot of posts about how much it would cost if you lived there, etc.
Here's my experience from the last month and a half:
City: Kharkiv
Rent: $1000/month. This is for a last-minute short term arrangement for a nice 1 bedroom (2 room) apartment less than 1 km from the center. (Nauky Ave, 8, next to the Medical University). With advanced notice and longer term, there are about 5 or 6 similar apartments nearby at $450-600/month.
Food, dining out: $20-60 for two, depending on how many courses and drinks. Drinks are definitely cheaper than at restaurants in the States.
Food, groceries: $50 to $215 per week, for two. Wide range due to the holidays. Cheapest beer (that I liked) was at Metro, 19 UAH ($0.68) for 1 liter. Stella is a little less than $1 per 0.33 liter, other EU beers about $1- $2 per 0.33 liter. Most expensive seems to be Guiness. Bread is less than $1 per loaf, milk about $1 per liter (for fresh, cheaper for long shelf life milk), wine and alcohol about $4 for cheap Ukrainian wine to over $300 for Johnie Walker Blue (0.75 liter). Made prime rib roast for New Year, 435 UAH for 3.4 kg, 6 bone roast. Vegetables are about 1/2 the cost of the cheapest US grocery stores - tomatoes were 64 UAH per kilo (was told that is expensive, due to winter). Water is 12.5 UAH for 1.5 liters of Morshinska, cheaper when getting the 6 liter bottles. There is a purified water filling machine outside this building, at 1.12 UAH per liter. Have not shopped in markets, only at Rost, Klass, Silpo and Metro.
Transportation: Metro is 5 UAH. Uber is 112 to 395 UAH (had to go to the city limits to the East once, at morning rush hour, to take nephews to soccer - car was snowed in. Return trip was only 195 UAH for the same distance). Petrol is 29 UAH/liter for 95, with a 2 UAH drop in the past two weeks.
Coffee: Wifey-to-be always stops at WOG when we are out, for XXL size cafe late, at 33 UAH (cheapest - was as high as 38 near Kramatorsk). She also buys the instant Jacobs coffee tube packets for about 3.5 UAH each to make at home.
Mobile: 115 UAH for 4 weeks of 4G unlimited data plan on Vodaphone.
My monthly expense without rent is over $1000. Subtracting nice dinners out, then it's about $800.
Wifey-to-be owns and runs a retail store, and makes about 50,000 UAH per month on average. Her income is above average here, but her friends who have normal jobs still earn about 25,000 UAH per month (in Kharkiv).
At the current exchange rate, 500 GPB is 17,000 UAH. Average to below average monthly income for here. If the goal is to just live here, then yes, it is doable. If the goal is to move here and be a player...no, not even close.
Sorrry to tell you that 25000 UAH is not paid for a normal job, even in Kharkov.
The normal wage in Ukraine for non Kiev citizen is between 100 and 500$. 500$ is already considered as a good paycheck (not in the capital).
You should also take care of the fact that a lot of ukrainian people will not tell you their real income or will give false datas, because they are very proud.
Remember : the Ukrane's GDP ranking is very low. And between 2009 and 2019 the UAH has dropped of nearly 300%. A lot of people are litteraly surviving and struggling. Many cannot pay the gas now, and last time i was in Dnipro in november the city hall hadn't allowed the heater to be swicth on. The girl with whom i was, working for the council of a 30000 people city told me that they had many people who couldn't afford their gaz bills.
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This site states there is no difference in foreigner and non foreigner buying property in Ukraine, only that foreigners are not allowed to buy land.
http://uarealtygroup.com/propery-purchase
I think that is what I heard before and thought it meant new build land. I assume then it means agricultural land. Whether these dacha/village buildings count, who knows I guess.
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From Trench's fist link:
The cottage measures approximately 40m2 and due to the large size of the land, there is ample opportunity to extend the size of the property to include further rooms if needed. Inside the cottage would benefit from being brought up to Western standards including installation of an internal bathroom and updated kitchen.
Gas and electricity is connected to the property and water is provided via a well in the garden. This has the added benefit of meaning there are no water bills!
From Trench's second link:
The cottage has electricity and water is from a well. It offers a basic kitchen, two bedrooms and living space. Of course, at this minuscule price don’t expect modern facilities! But it’s clean and serviceable and has original features like the “stove bed”, where people sleep on a shelf over a fire to be warm in midwinter.
Two bedrooms and a path!
I suggest on your next trip to Kiev, you might visit these properties. Please take lots of pictures and post them for us. I am sure many of us are curious to see what they look like when not photoed from their best view.
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Sorrry tot ell you that 25000 UAH is not paid for a normal job, even in Kharkov.
The normal wage in Ukraine for non Kiev citizen is between 100 and 500$. 500$ is already considered as a good paycheck (not in the capital).
You should also take care of the fact that a lot of ukrainian people will not tell you their real income or will give false datas, because they are very proud.
However the Ukrane's GDP ranking is very low. And between 2009 and 2019 the UAH has dropped of nearly 300%. A lot of people are litteraly surviving and struggling. Many cannot pay the gas now, and last time i was in Dnipro in november the city hall hadn't allowed the heater to be swicth on.
Thanks for sharing Pat, that's similar to what I had heard and I think Krimster also. I know some guy here a few months back who took a girl to Paris, well she was telling him how they try to save spending 500 UAH over winter spend on the heating and just grin and bear it. 500 UAG is of course around £15 in our money so not a great deal for us westerners. I don't think they would be giving heating a miss out there if they were getting as good an income as Steve thinks.
Some on the low end of income in the UK moan about making ends meet, but even they are better off than many Ukrainians I figure. If you get that here then in Ukraine I wager it's far worse as like you say it's GDP etc is not good.
Come my visit there shortly I will likely be viewed like a superstar ;D
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TrenchCoat as is standard for your posts you are wrong and either naive or willfully ignorant
If the land is classified as agriculture you may not only own it as a foreigner. Further you will be surprised at how biased and superstitious your possible neighbors will be. Forget the cute farm girl it is a fantasy from those who suffer from Autistic spectrum challenges. The people who live in the villages will have you for breakfast. They are clever and very tight knit.
I can write this with authority, my wife is a realator in Kiev who owns a decent Dacha in a village about an hour away from Downtown. My son has mild Aspergers and my brothers son has severe autism, though this did not prevent him from delivering a random sperm shot to a like type person resulting in a kid they can not raise.
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TrenchCoat as is standard for your posts you are wrong and either naive or willfully ignorant
If the land is classified as agriculture you may not only own it as a foreigner. Further you will be surprised at how biased and superstitious your possible neighbors will be. Forget the cute farm girl it is a fantasy from those who suffer from Autistic spectrum challenges. The people who live in the villages will have you for breakfast. They are clever and very tight knit.
I can write this with authority, my wife is a realator in Kiev who owns a decent Dacha in a village about an hour away from Downtown. My son has mild Aspergers and my brothers son has severe autism, though this did not prevent him from delivering a random sperm shot to a like type person resulting in a kid they can not raise.
I've met Asperger's/Autism type of people, some have good personalities and often wouldn't really know they had it without getting to know them real well. Yeah it's kind of strange though how those with that stuff still manage some form of relationship if only for a while and even like you show knock out kids. Tend to find those with mental conditions tend to hang out with others with similar. How they manage to find each other who knows.
In the UK land with a building on it other than a barn isn't classed as agricultural land, so a farm house would not be classed as agricultural land, generally only land that can be grown stuff in is classed as agricultural land.
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In the UK land with a building on it other than a barn isn't classed as agricultural land, so a farm house would not be classed as agricultural land, generally only land that can be grown stuff in is classed as agricultural land.
Why would you apply the U.K. legal system and laws to Ukraine?
Either you are very arrogant or very stupid.
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Why would you apply the U.K. legal system and laws to Ukraine?
Either you are very arrogant or very stupid.
I'm not saying I would apply the laws, just how land/building/property is described in the UK. That is where I am coming from, time it sounds a bit bizzare to call a masonry built cottage as agricultural land.
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Sorrry to tell you that 25000 UAH is not paid for a normal job, even in Kharkov.
The normal wage in Ukraine for non Kiev citizen is between 100 and 500$. 500$ is already considered as a good paycheck (not in the capital).
You should also take care of the fact that a lot of ukrainian people will not tell you their real income or will give false datas, because they are very proud.
Remember : the Ukrane's GDP ranking is very low. And between 2009 and 2019 the UAH has dropped of nearly 300%. A lot of people are litteraly surviving and struggling. Many cannot pay the gas now, and last time i was in Dnipro in november the city hall hadn't allowed the heater to be swicth on. The girl with whom i was, working for the council of a 30000 people city told me that they had many people who couldn't afford their gaz bills.
Sorry to tell you Pat that her friends do make about 25,000 UAH per month. I am not sure why you would disagree? It is what they make, not by me asking directly but by asking about it to my wife and observing their lifestyles - 2 weeks on a tour package to northern Italy in November and 2 weeks at a resort in Egypt in February.
Also, currency depreciation would not affect how much someone makes in UAH.
Let's take an Uber driver, for example. Short trips are 100 UAH, long trips 300-400. Let's say a driver averages, on the low side, 2 short trips an hour - 200 UAH. If they work 200 hours a month, then it's 40,000 UAH. 1/2 is for gas, maintenance and fees. So 20,000 UAH a month for an uber driver (in cities like Kyiv, Odessa and Kharkiv). If he can get 4 fares an hour, then it's 40,000 UAH.
If you rely on government data, then it counts pensioners like my mother-in-law who gets 6500 UAH a month, which lowers the average income data.
Realistically there are many Ukrainians who earn $100-$400/month. But for this discussion, which was about TC or another expat that wants to live in Ukraine and be seen as a rich westerner, 500 GBP/month would not cut it at all.
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here's an example of me building on three consecutively purchased adjacent dacha properties in Crimea (a long time ago)
and building a "house" on it of local materials
total cost of three dacahas of 20 sotek each plus construction materials and all legal paperwork was $40,000
prices would be about the same today
I did some of the plumbing and electrical work myself
had a fireplace plus cooking pit, 3 floors, garage, outbuildings
added a swimming pool that the 19 yr blond neighbor (shown in the photo below) would swim in every day, au natural of course, just so I'd pay attention and speak English to her
whenever she knew my wife wasn't around she would just "tease" the hell out of me by "skinny dipping" in the pool
I would just pretend like it was nothing and eventually moved to handing her a towel to dry off
to handing her a towel to dry off and take the towel pat down more and more each time...
but that's as far as it went...
pics, of course
I have since gifted this property to relatives
and no longer own property in Crimea
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Sorry to tell you Pat that her friends do make about 25,000 UAH per month. I am not sure why you would disagree? It is what they make, not by me asking directly but by asking about it to my wife and observing their lifestyles - 2 weeks on a tour package to northern Italy in November and 2 weeks at a resort in Egypt in February.
Also, currency depreciation would not affect how much someone makes in UAH.
Let's take an Uber driver, for example. Short trips are 100 UAH, long trips 300-400. Let's say a driver averages, on the low side, 2 short trips an hour - 200 UAH. If they work 200 hours a month, then it's 40,000 UAH. 1/2 is for gas, maintenance and fees. So 20,000 UAH a month for an uber driver (in cities like Kyiv, Odessa and Kharkiv). If he can get 4 fares an hour, then it's 40,000 UAH.
If you rely on government data, then it counts pensioners like my mother-in-law who gets 6500 UAH a month, which lowers the average income data.
Realistically there are many Ukrainians who earn $100-$400/month. But for this discussion, which was about TC or another expat that wants to live in Ukraine and be seen as a rich westerner, 500 GBP/month would not cut it at all.
By all accounts Uber has been squeezing it all though higher fares/fees recently around the world as they look to turn a profit from a loss making enterprise so far for them. I've had taxi rides with a local girl calling up and also Uber rides for as little as 30 UAH, sometimes 50 or 80 UAH. I don't think they will earn that much after all expenses and waiting around are accounted for.
I don't think 25000 UAH/£722 a month is typical, some no doubt get that but they will be at the top end. If she runs a business then she likely makes more than a lot of Ukrainians. It all depends on what resources a person has open to them and how much they want to put into making money. I think people that are in an upper earning strata though not necessarily the top earning strata will hang around often/mostly with those of a similar socio-economic strata. So I don't think you're wrong Steve, it's just the perspective of the socio-economic strata from who you are with.
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here's an example of me building on three consecutively purchased adjacent dacha properties in Crimea (a long time ago)
and building a "house" on it of local materials
total cost of three dacahas of 20 sotek each plus construction materials and all legal paperwork was $40,000
prices would be about the same today
I did some of the plumbing and electrical work myself
had a fireplace plus cooking pit, 3 floors, garage, outbuildings
added a swimming pool that the 18 yr blond neighbor would swim in every day, au natural of course, just so I'd pay attention and speak English to her
pics, of course
I have since gifted this property to relatives
and no longer own property in Crimea
That's done amazingly cheaply for such a big building Krim, in the UK it would cost way more, not including the cost of the land. I'm guessing you changed it to to relatives on your wife's side to avoid the foreigner thing.
My only other thought is buying property in Moldova, it had EU association, they don't sell agricultural land to foreigners but thinking maybe urban buildings might be ok.
Other than that only other option I can think of is Romania as part of the EU I'm guessing it would be sound enough there perhaps.
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Believe in what you want. I don't need to believe because I lived it. It's like believing in a table - it's there, it's a table - why believe in it? I posted data from my 2 months in Ukraine, for yours or anyone's reference.
When you travel, and you have new data, please share. Udachi.
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Salaries depend very much on the region. Kyiv, Kharkiv, and Odesa are far, far above the national average. In Western Ukraine, I know someone who was offered a sales job for the equivalent of 10 cents a day (which she didn't take). That is why so many Western Ukrainians work abroad.
Official salaries also don't tell the whole picture. People often are paid under the table, or by bonuses. But those official salary statistics don't include pensioners.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
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Sorry to tell you Pat that her friends do make about 25,000 UAH per month. I am not sure why you would disagree? It is what they make, not by me asking directly but by asking about it to my wife and observing their lifestyles - 2 weeks on a tour package to northern Italy in November and 2 weeks at a resort in Egypt in February.
Also, currency depreciation would not affect how much someone makes in UAH.
Let's take an Uber driver, for example. Short trips are 100 UAH, long trips 300-400. Let's say a driver averages, on the low side, 2 short trips an hour - 200 UAH. If they work 200 hours a month, then it's 40,000 UAH. 1/2 is for gas, maintenance and fees. So 20,000 UAH a month for an uber driver (in cities like Kyiv, Odessa and Kharkiv). If he can get 4 fares an hour, then it's 40,000 UAH.
If you rely on government data, then it counts pensioners like my mother-in-law who gets 6500 UAH a month, which lowers the average income data.
Realistically there are many Ukrainians who earn $100-$400/month. But for this discussion, which was about TC or another expat that wants to live in Ukraine and be seen as a rich westerner, 500 GBP/month would not cut it at all.
I do agree that 500 GBP is not enough to live in FSU, maybe if you are owning a flat. I already told to Trench that he is too short for such adventure.
I don't say that friends of your fiancee are not capable to afford such travels, i am just saying that they are probably at least in the top 10% of the ukrainian society. (you need to know that trips paid in FSU are at least 30% minimum less expansive than in the western side. Read my trip and you will know that i made one in Italy, entirely from the FSU with only ukrainian people in the bus).
Maybee your mother in law gets 6500 UAH but that's not the standard pension which is largely less than 100$. (it starts at 60$).
A lot of drivers don't own their car, and i have been friend with one who finished broken (but more probably because he was owning a SUV rather than a Lada). If they have a loan on a car they have crazy interest rate or they have to give back to some close friends or family (and it will work both ways a day or another, with some interest in return).
Yes UAH devaluation is hitting the ones who have a loan for appartment or car expressed in $ as it is generally done, I met two women in this case in 2009 and 2018.. Of course it makes imported things more expansive. It makes their travel abroad largely more expensive. The only good thing is that it makes more money for everyone who has someone working outside Ukraine sending them $ or €.
You should spent more time to discuss with different people and go to read some hiring sites (in russian only) to get a better picture.
For example : an individual english lesson in the neighboring of a big ukrainian city (not Kiev) with a certified professor (from Canada, but ukrainian), it's 5$. Do the math, and you have to pay the rental of the school (not cheap), heating, electricity, computer, chairs, tables, and after (one year i think, Bo could tell us more on this), you have to pay taxes because you are only exempted the first year or the first months.
You would ask me how do you know that's 5 $, because the professor told me that is the maximum she can ask if she want to have a chance to have some students coming. (there are some competition in this area).
I had, for years, the same optimistic vision of the ukrainian economy, but more i spent time there with locals, and more i have become realistic.
I have actually two russian teachers teaching me online. I am quite in very good friendship with one. She is a very kind lady and i have a lot of respect for her. I guess she earns maximum maximum 2000$ with her husband, probably less. And he has a job which brings good money (computing). They travel for short duration (few days) abroad one, maximum twice a year (without the two children). They live four of the family in less than 55 m2. We can consider that they belong to the middle class. Just the problem is that the ukrainian middle class if few pourcent only. But the richest are numerous at least as the western ones.
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Maybee your mother in law gets 6500 UAH but that's not the standard pension which is largely less than 100$. (it starts at 60$).
Many pensions in rural regions are US$30.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
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I am more inline with Steve than others here.
A few ad hoc pieces-
The average retirement payment in Kiev reached 3,289 hryvnia ( late 2018)
Some pensions are over 10,000 per month
It was only in 2018 that the minimum amount of pension was lifted to 1,452 hryvnia . On average, retirees from the western part of Ukraine get only this minimum payment.
12,000,000 people are on payments-- 2/3rds on on minimum
There are increases in the pipeline.
None of that is to say that pensions are anywhere near adequate.
On incomes -- reality is they are still low -- but--- but-- but-- there are more and more people earning well above these stated average incomes.
For those stuck on thinking that the big plus for western guys is economic advantage -- you are coming at this the wrong way. FULL STOP. :wallbash:
An example of income-- recently on forum a guy was asked to shell out for dance lessons-- that are generally sold as a bloc of say 8 X 100 = 800 for say 2 weeks. Multiply by 10 in class( can easily be way more) and the teacher/promoter is generating say UAH4000 per week plus or UAH16000 a month --less costs etc Then throw in the potential for eg 4 groups per day = UAH 64000 per month
That is a real life example I am quoting above of a girl who runs her own show !
Example 2 -- is a girl who actually does the above dance classes -- and -- works as an instructor at a gym taking( teaching) aerobic classes herself . Working 3 days a week - she earns UAH 1000 per day on the books doing at least 4 classes - sometimes more. She is paid a decent amount more in cash.
One particular irk I have in Ukraine -- is the day/s off every week when business has a no atm day/s and takes cash only. This seems to happen everywhere from one man business to very large supermarket chains --it does not require a genius to understand why .The net result is that the black economy is larger than the numbers in the official stats !~
The point I am making here is that there is more money than is apparent floating around.
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so the minimum pension works out to $51 per month, and you can bet there are plenty of people who get the minimum or 2-3 times minimum...
not everyone is part of the "gig economy" most people are salaried workers making under $1000 per month...
even a professional couple in high tech or finance have a tough time supporting a family on a combined income of under $2,000 per month
it is a fortunate English speaking software engineer who can make $2,000/month in Kyiv
some of them work for me...
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I am more inline with Steve than others here.
A few ad hoc pieces-
The average retirement payment in Kiev reached 3,289 hryvnia ( late 2018)
Some pensions are over 10,000 per month
It was only in 2018 that the minimum amount of pension was lifted to 1,452 hryvnia . On average, retirees from the western part of Ukraine get only this minimum payment.
12,000,000 people are on payments-- 2/3rds on on minimum
There are increases in the pipeline.
None of that is to say that pensions are anywhere near adequate.
On incomes -- reality is they are still low -- but--- but-- but-- there are more and more people earning well above these stated average incomes.
For those stuck on thinking that the big plus for western guys is economic advantage -- you are coming at this the wrong way. FULL STOP. :wallbash:
An example of income-- recently on forum a guy was asked to shell out for dance lessons-- that are generally sold as a bloc of say 8 X 100 = 800 for say 2 weeks. Multiply by 10 in class( can easily be way more) and the teacher/promoter is generating say UAH4000 per week plus or UAH16000 a month --less costs etc Then throw in the potential for eg 4 groups per day = UAH 64000 per month
That is a real life example I am quoting above of a girl who runs her own show !
Example 2 -- is a girl who actually does the above dance classes -- and -- works as an instructor at a gym taking( teaching) aerobic classes herself . Working 3 days a week - she earns UAH 1000 per day on the books doing at least 4 classes - sometimes more. She is paid a decent amount more in cash.
One particular irk I have in Ukraine -- is the day/s off every week when business has a no atm day/s and takes cash only. This seems to happen everywhere from one man business to very large supermarket chains --it does not require a genius to understand why .The net result is that the black economy is larger than the numbers in the official stats !~
The point I am making here is that there is more money than is apparent floating around.
I'll have you know I was personally feeding the local Babushka's bread crumbs, nuts and other bird feed in the park when I was last in Ukraine. Their gratitude at my tossing my offerings on the ground for them to gobble up was only marred by the pidgeons they had to compete with :)
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The average retirement payment in Kiev reached 3,289 hryvnia ( late 2018)
Some pensions are over 10,000 per month
I have a lot of pensioners in Kyiv in the family. Not one has a pension over 3,000 hyrvnia per month, and they all worked to retirement age, full time. Pensions range from 1500 hryvnia (retired nurse) to 3,000 hyrvnia.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
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Trench,
no one in their right mind, makes fun of baboshka's...no one....
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Pensions range from 1500 hryvnia (retired nurse) to 3,000 hyrvnia.
How can anyone live on less than $60 a month?
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Here is a couple of videos from the many available.
Sergy does a fine job explaining the "modern" plumbing!
Correct me if I'm wrong but it appears as though Babushka is running in a field of Marijuana.
Maybe that's why she is 'stepping lively'.
Blast it! I can't seem to get the video to copy.
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Trench,
no one in their right mind, makes fun of baboshka's...no one....
Yeah, I wouldn't do if I was standing with them, some of them can be quite scary. Every so often I stray across a more softer one that doesn't make me want to run fast.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but it appears as though Babushka is running in a field of Marijuana.
Maybe that's why she is 'stepping lively'.
Blast it! I can't seem to get the video to copy.
I didn't notice it before, but you seem to be correct. LOL I will have to keep a closer eye on those Babushkas!!!
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Official salaries also don't tell the whole picture. People often are paid under the table, or by bonuses. But those official salary statistics don't include pensioners.
I met a woman in Kiev that told me the same. Before she told me this she said her job was "dangerous." I asked her "how could a job as an economist be dangerous?" She said that her fear was the tax police would show up someday and that would be it for her. Her employer pays her $1500 a month in cash for sticking her neck out.
She also said her ex-husband was very wealthy. He worked in customs. Ukraine is corrupt as all hell. Corruption got cleaned up in Georgia. I got to hand to Saakashvili for that. Corruption was so bad in Georgia the people demanded reform, and they got it. Georgia is paradise for doing business in comparison to Russia or Ukraine. Other than Slavic women I don't see the attraction for men to those places.
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How can anyone live on less than $60 a month?
They live with relatives and mostly eat the food grown at the family dacha or bought from one of the babushkas sitting on a stoop.
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They live with relatives and mostly eat the food grown at the family dacha or bought from one of the babushkas sitting on a stoop.
I think this is more likely the answer for most. I think a lot will depend on circumstance. Some will have access to more lucrative opportunities, but not that many will. For most the answer will be more mundane as we have here or worse they will struggle and suffer. It all depends on their support network and opportunities they come across I think. Some sit out as room stewards in museums. At Porokovo Open Air Folk Museum I and the girl I was with came across an old Babushka selling tree sap water in large plastic bottles and selling them to visitors in the wood. Somewhere around 30 UAH a time. The girl I was with after speaking to her told me it was to supplement her income. She didn't look well off and of course only had the occasional visitor she came across. Still it no doubt was better getting a bit of extra income than nothing I guess. We got a couple of bottles but later chucked it as the water later went a bit misty so didn't want to chance it.
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OMG
Trench is now an 'expert' on Grandmothers in the FSU..
I hope your board persona is just a front...
You will not last long enough with any lass to meet her Grandmother..
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Many pensions in rural regions are US$30.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
I misspoke about the pension - 6500UAH is my father-in-law's pension - he was a mine director before he retired. Mother-in-law gets 1700.
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How can anyone live on less than $60 a month?
That particular relative has a husband, so they manage. But even a pension of 3,000 hyrvnia is pretty difficult to live on. 2/3 to 3/4 of that pension would be used for utilities. They often sit in almost darkness, and only heat apartments intermittently. In villages, I've seen old women at the rivers, gathering wood to burn. In cities, the pensioner eats a lot of potatoes, buys half a dozen eggs at a time, and cans foods in summer for winter. Some rely on other family for additional aid, as was noted.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
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Yes,,,, when we are old,,, I will build a small house and garage for a Lada 2106, Gaz 2410 and some type of Audi for the wife...
Thats the dream...