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Author Topic: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?  (Read 451022 times)

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Offline southernX

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1850 on: July 31, 2014, 12:35:12 AM »

this article highlights the possibilitys clearly i think
SX
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/31/nato-unprepared-threats-from-russia

Nato unprepared for potential threats from Russia, say MPs

Cross-party report issued as group of former Russian and European defence ministers warn of risk of accidental war
Richard Norton-Taylor and Julian Borger
The Guardian, Thursday 31 July 2014

Igor Strelkov, who fought in the Russian military and is now with the separatists, highlights the ambiguous relationship betwen Russia and the Ukraine conflict, according to the ex-ministers' report. Photograph: Bulent Kilic/AFP/Getty Images


Nato is ill-prepared to confront new threats posed by Russia, and members of the western military alliance may not have the collective political will to take concerted action to deter an attack, a cross-party group of MPs warn on Thursday.

Nato's command and control structures, the alliance's ability to predict and give adequate warning of a potential attack and the state of its forces are all seriously deficient, the Commons defence committee says.

The committee's findings come at a time of exceptionally fraught and volatile relations between Russia and the west. Intense gun battles are raging between Ukrainian military forces and pro-Russian rebels around the crash site of Malaysia Airlines MH17 preventing international investigators from approaching the scene.

Sweeping US and EU sanctions on Russia this week are the most severe since the end of the cold war. On Wednesday, G7 leaders said they are prepared to "further intensify the costs" to Russia if it does not change its policy of supporting separatists in the Ukraine.

The MPs' warning has been issued at the same time as another report, by a group of former Russian and European defence and foreign ministers, warning of the increasing likelihood of an unplanned, direct clash between Russian and Nato forces leading to an accidental war, and calling for communication between the two sides to be improved.

"Russian military forces have been stationed near and have exercised close to Ukraine's borders. Nato has announced additional force deployments in eastern Europe," the ministers – including Sir Malcolm Rifkind, the former UK foreign and defence secretary, Des Browne, another former defence secretary, and Igor Ivanov, Russia's former defence minister – write in a report on crisis management in Europe.

"We remain deeply concerned … that the situation on the ground may yet escalate, putting the security of everyone in Ukraine, and Europe, at risk."

In the closest encounter to date, a Russian fighter jet buzzed a US destroyer a dozen times on 14 April in the Black Sea at a height of just 500ft, drawing accusations of recklessness and lack of professionalism from the US navy. Moscow accused the US ship of staying too long in the Black Sea in violation of a 1936 international convention.

"With Ukraine doing better militarily, there is an acute dilemma for [Vladimir] Putin on whether to raise the stakes. It's a dangerous cocktail," said Ian Kearns, director of the European Leadership Network, which published the ministers' report.

"Given this dynamic, it is easy for events to unfold in a way none of the key players intended. It's an illusion we can keep all of this under control indefinitely."

The Commons defence committee said Nato should consider broadening the terms of a key article in its founding treaty triggering collective action in the event of "an armed attack against one or more" of its members.

The MPs argued that given the threat of unconventional "ambiguous warfare", the word "armed" should be removed from the clause, so that Nato could respond effectively to any kind of attack.

"Events in Ukraine demonstrate in particular Russia's ability to effectively paralyse an opponent in the pursuit of its interests with a range of tools including psychological operations, information warfare and intimidation with massing of conventional forces," said the MPs.

"Such operations may be designed to slip below Nato's threshold for reaction. In many circumstances, such operations are also deniable, increasing the difficulties for an adversary in mounting a credible and legitimate response."

The report says Nato must deploy more military equipment to the Baltic states, maintain a "continuous presence" of troops training and exercising in the Baltic, and beef up Nato's rapid reaction force.

Nato must also develop new tactics to respond to the threat of such "ambiguous" attacks from Russia as cyber and information warfare and irregular militia, according to the report.

By contrast, in their joint warning on crisis management, the European and Russian ex-ministers argued for de-escalation and better communication between Nato and Moscow.

"Despite recent phone contact between senior Russian and Nato military officials, there are also currently few, if any, effective exchanges of information on military deployments in the Euro-Atlantic region. EU-Russia crisis management arrangements also do not exist," they said.

To avoid an unplanned clash, the former ministers urged: "Political leaders on all sides should review their military rules of engagement and ensure clear guidance in favour of restraint is passed through the military chain of command."

The report singles out Igor Strelkov as a man whose ambiguous relation to the Russian state was symptomatic of a new asymmetric threat. The former member of the FSB, the Russian security service, whose real name is Igor Girkin, fought in Transnistria, Serbia and Chechnya, and played a role in the annexation of Crimea.

"The uncertainty over his relationship to the downing of the Malaysian airliner on 17 July highlights the unpredictable threats posed by Russia's involvement in asymmetric operations of this kind," the Commons defence committee said.

Radical improvements are needed in Russian expertise within the British government, "allowing for real analysis and assessment of the Russian threat", it added. The Ministry of Defence, as a matter of urgency, must build up "its capacity to understand the nature of the current security threat from Russia and its motivations".

Nato's spokeswoman, Oana Lungescu, said that she had not seen the defence committee report but added: "Nato has already taken measures to reinforce collective defence, especially for our eastern allies, with more planes in the air, more ships at sea, and more exercises on the ground. All 28 allies are contributing, and the United Kingdom is playing an important role in policing Baltic airspace and planned exercises in Poland."

Rory Stewart, Conservative chair of the committee, said: "The risk of attack by Russia on a Nato member state, while still small, is significant … Nato has been too complacent about the threat from Russia, and it is not well-prepared."

He added: "Even worse, the nature of Russian tactics is changing fast – including cyber-attacks, information warfare, and the backing of irregular 'separatist groups', combining armed civilians with Russian special forces operating without insignia. We have already seen how these tactics have been deployed by Russia and its proxies in Ukraine to destabilise a Nato partner state, annex part of its territory, and paralyse its ability to respond
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lordtiberius

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1851 on: August 19, 2014, 05:11:54 PM »
A proxy war
Short of a negotiated peace with no casualties, this is the best of the bad options. The U.S. and Russia have already fought a string of proxy wars, the big ones being Vietnam to Afghanistan. In this scenario, the U.S. might finance Ukrainian forces to fight Russian soldiers, with the probable goal of driving them out of Ukrainian territory. Or, should the U.S. or NATO back the Ukrainian army, Russia might fund pro-Moscow separatist movements in Ukraine against it.


It will be a proxy war.

Jus' sayin'

lordtiberius

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1852 on: August 19, 2014, 09:40:19 PM »
New developments in the proxy war, a Russian armored column has joined the Luhansk mercenaries.  There is some military scandal in Ukraine over the fate of the 30th motorised brigade.  Kiev is moving to a Swiss-Israeli style of defense and introducing 72 hour guerilla war courses.  The Russians killed the American - Frankoh - fighting in the volunteer battalion.  Simon Ostrovasky featured Frankoh in this Russian Roulette Dispatch:

http://news.vice.com/video/russian-roulette-dispatch-66

The presence of Russian heavy armor could be a game changer.  As many as 150 tanks have entered the fortress city of Luhansk which is without water or electricity.  That is a battalion size formation.  Tanks also need a lot of logistical support - gas and are very vulnerable to air attacks from the hinds.

We have not seen air to air combat between the Ukrainian and Russian air forces.  Russia has a good air force and is bigger than Ukraine air.  Air to air combat is a significant escalation.

Offline JayH

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1853 on: August 20, 2014, 12:36:25 AM »
Ground based armour is vunerable to air attack-- hence the Russians have been pumping in large numbers of anti-air defences prior to sending this large column. The logistical support is interesting-- how do you think 280 odd semis floating around the area would be of use? Of course-throw in some confusion and all this equipment and men are suddenly in the thick of it.
I think air to air is less likely due to the general vunerability of aircraft here-- but--I would not like to see the large numbers of Russian attack helicopters in action here--it would shift the balance significently as the degree of sophistication is beyond Ukraine at this stage.
How anyone can see any of this as a "win-win" situation and not a Russian invasion(let alone what happened in the Crimea) -is beyond belief.
How some of those people could come and post here the dribble they have shows little comprehension of the situation-- and what is worse is the contempt shown for good Ukrainians being killed by russian scum.
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline Chelseaboy

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1854 on: August 20, 2014, 12:54:33 AM »
It's not only Ukrainians being killed by the Russian scum.
Just saying it like it is.

Offline fathertime

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1855 on: August 20, 2014, 06:28:02 AM »
Ground based armour is vunerable to air attack-- hence the Russians have been pumping in large numbers of anti-air defences prior to sending this large column. The logistical support is interesting-- how do you think 280 odd semis floating around the area would be of use? Of course-throw in some confusion and all this equipment and men are suddenly in the thick of it.
I think air to air is less likely due to the general vunerability of aircraft here-- but--I would not like to see the large numbers of Russian attack helicopters in action here--it would shift the balance significently as the degree of sophistication is beyond Ukraine at this stage.
How anyone can see any of this as a "win-win" situation and not a Russian invasion(let alone what happened in the Crimea) -is beyond belief.
How some of those people could come and post here the dribble they have shows little comprehension of the situation-- and what is worse is the contempt shown for good Ukrainians being killed by russian scum.


I think you have always been one-sided in your 'analysis' from afar.  The win-win situation was something mentioned a while back, that I felt could have occurred if Ukraine leadership was negotiating...they have chosen to fight...which is their decision and fine.  You have never really had very good comprehension so I understand your confusion.


Fathertime!   
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline JayH

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1856 on: August 20, 2014, 06:56:38 AM »

I think you have always been one-sided in your 'analysis' from afar.  The win-win situation was something mentioned a while back, that I felt could have occurred if Ukraine leadership was negotiating...they have chosen to fight...which is their decision and fine.  You have never really had very good comprehension so I understand your confusion.


Fathertime!

It is very clear to everyone that you have very little idea whatsover-- you have insisted all along that russia had not invaded Ukraine--despite the obvious fact of it being obvious to near enough the whole world  that they were russian troops on the Crimea( part of Ukrainian sovereign territory in case you missed that part-) More recently  your unique assessment that it was not Russians invading eastern Ukraine you insist on offering some half baked ideas based on the very small exceptions to the general realities.
To top it off-- you slyly try to rewrite others positions and your own--by attempting to redefine what you actually said about  a russian invasion-- you attempted to convince us that you said-- a full scale invasion-- something you in fact never said until trying to cover your earlier ridiculous comments.
Throw in your "win-win" scenario where you asserted it would be a "win" for Ukraine to be invaded by russia--really!!
I just got back from a month in the sin bin on the forum-- but if I was allowed to use the words I would to describe you and they would stay in thread-- I would happily take another month  !!!
You are truly a disgusting individual  with zero to contribute to the thread-- and to the specifics of the forum at large.Go read JonE's comments directed at you-- and do some think time fcs.
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline JayH

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1857 on: August 20, 2014, 06:58:48 AM »


BTW-- anyone else notice the time of that trolls posting? Curious for someone supposedly on US WestCoast.
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline fathertime

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1858 on: August 20, 2014, 07:48:37 AM »
It is very clear to everyone that you have very little idea whatsover-- you have insisted all along that russia had not invaded Ukraine--despite the obvious fact of it being obvious to near enough the whole world  that they were russian troops on the Crimea( part of Ukrainian sovereign territory in case you missed that part-) More recently  your unique assessment that it was not Russians invading eastern Ukraine you insist on offering some half baked ideas based on the very small exceptions to the general realities.
To top it off-- you slyly try to rewrite others positions and your own--by attempting to redefine what you actually said about  a russian invasion-- you attempted to convince us that you said-- a full scale invasion-- something you in fact never said until trying to cover your earlier ridiculous comments.
Throw in your "win-win" scenario where you asserted it would be a "win" for Ukraine to be invaded by russia--really!!
I just got back from a month in the sin bin on the forum-- but if I was allowed to use the words I would to describe you and they would stay in thread-- I would happily take another month  !!!
You are truly a disgusting individual  with zero to contribute to the thread-- and to the specifics of the forum at large.Go read JonE's comments directed at you-- and do some think time fcs.


I'm delighted to know that you have been stewing and thinking about me and the positions I've taken regarding Ukraine/Russia!   I think it is jolly good that your first returning posts have been angry and towards me.  Much of the one-sided commentary you were promoting has not come to pass, which is not surprising.  I think I'm supposed to be concerned that you think I'm a troll, but it doesn't bother me.  I just figure you are angry that you have been so wrong, and don't know how to direct your anger. 


Fathertime!   
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Online Faux Pas

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1859 on: August 20, 2014, 08:11:30 AM »

I think you have always been one-sided in your 'analysis' from afar.  The win-win situation was something mentioned a while back, that I felt could have occurred if Ukraine leadership was negotiating...they have chosen to fight...which is their decision and fine.  You have never really had very good comprehension so I understand your confusion.


Fathertime!

Let me try to explain it to you this way. For example, you have a nice 10 acre estate. I have the adjacent 100 acres. I move my fence over to onto your property for four acres and you now have 6 acres. You're a passive chap and rather than moving my fence off of your property you just let the fence remain hoping to keep the peace in the neighborhood.

The next day I catch your teenager trotting down the driveway. You know, the one that never listens to you and has rebelled ever since you didn't buy him the new iPhone 5 because his flip phone Star Tac works perfectly fine and you can't afford a new iPhone. I promise FT Junior a brand new iPhone if he'll invite me home into "his" house. He happily accepts the idea and invites me right in. I tell him if Big Daddy FT objects, we'll beat him with this bag of hammers I have right here. Just for good measure, I give Junior a bag of hammers too.

Junior and I walk into your house. I have a seat in the living room, Junior and I help ourselves to your liquor cabinet. You, alerted by the noise of clinking glass come out to see what's going on. I inform you that you no longer have any domain over this living room. Junior and I have taken it over. If you don't like it, we'll pound you to smithereens with these bags of hammers. Do you wish to negotiate how much of the living room Junior and I can have or do you want us out of your house?

Offline Misha

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1860 on: August 20, 2014, 02:05:38 PM »
Faux Pas, that sums it up nicely. The part that you forgot to add is that everybody knows that while getting settled into the living room, the neighbour is also measuring the bedroom for new drapes and is deciding where the new stove will go in the kitchen renovation, claiming innocently that such plans mean nothing...

Offline fathertime

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1861 on: August 20, 2014, 02:33:12 PM »
Let me try to explain it to you this way. For example, you have a nice 10 acre estate. I have the adjacent 100 acres. I move my fence over to onto your property for four acres and you now have 6 acres. You're a passive chap and rather than moving my fence off of your property you just let the fence remain hoping to keep the peace in the neighborhood.

The next day I catch your teenager trotting down the driveway. You know, the one that never listens to you and has rebelled ever since you didn't buy him the new iPhone 5 because his flip phone Star Tac works perfectly fine and you can't afford a new iPhone. I promise FT Junior a brand new iPhone if he'll invite me home into "his" house. He happily accepts the idea and invites me right in. I tell him if Big Daddy FT objects, we'll beat him with this bag of hammers I have right here. Just for good measure, I give Junior a bag of hammers too.

Junior and I walk into your house. I have a seat in the living room, Junior and I help ourselves to your liquor cabinet. You, alerted by the noise of clinking glass come out to see what's going on. I inform you that you no longer have any domain over this living room. Junior and I have taken it over. If you don't like it, we'll pound you to smithereens with these bags of hammers. Do you wish to negotiate how much of the living room Junior and I can have or do you want us out of your house?


That is an interesting way to look at it....a big question is what is Ukraine going to do about it?  They are free to fight of course as it seems they are doing...the consequence being that their citizenry are dying....and it may wind up being a never ending low level fight.  I felt the federation was a better potential solution if done right, but what is done is done now.


Fathertime! 
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline GQBlues

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1862 on: August 20, 2014, 02:52:47 PM »

That is an interesting way to look at it....a big question is what is Ukraine going to do about it?  They are free to fight of course as it seems they are doing...the consequence being that their citizenry are dying....and it may wind up being a never ending low level fight.  I felt the federation was a better potential solution if done right, but what is done is done now.

Nah, don't let FP pull a fast one over you like that...

That 4 acres just happens to be deeded to the 100 acre dude. That 4-acre was called, "The Autonomous Republic of 4 Acres". It decided to become *part of* the 100 acre dude. So Ft and junior just need to deal with that reality despite what their silly US/EU neighbor's narratives were.
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Online Faux Pas

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1863 on: August 20, 2014, 04:08:54 PM »

That is an interesting way to look at it....a big question is what is Ukraine going to do about it?  They are free to fight of course as it seems they are doing...the consequence being that their citizenry are dying....and it may wind up being a never ending low level fight.  I felt the federation was a better potential solution if done right, but what is done is done now.


Fathertime!

Well in most respects I'm just a dumb country boy but, it's obvious to me that Ukraine is pushing back. Big Daddy FT has given me orders to put down his liquor, gather those bags of hammers and get the hell out of his house. A pushing match with slaps has ensued. How that confrontation ends is yet to be determined.


Nah, don't let FP pull a fast one over you like that...

That 4 acres just happens to be deeded to the 100 acre dude. That 4-acre was called, "The Autonomous Republic of 4 Acres". It decided to become *part of* the 100 acre dude. So Ft and junior just need to deal with that reality despite what their silly US/EU neighbor's narratives were.

Nah, not really. That deed has belonged rightfully and lawfully to Big Daddy FT for over 20 years. It was awarded to Big Daddy by me as long as I could still keep the milk from his cows and, he treated those cows like I told him. Yeah it did decide to become part of the 100 acres in a vote, sho'nuff. Kind'a like a bear, wolf and sheep voting on whats for dinner.

Offline GQBlues

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1864 on: August 20, 2014, 04:35:05 PM »
...Nah, not really. That deed has belonged rightfully and lawfully to Big Daddy FT for over 20 years. It was awarded to Big Daddy by me as long as I could still keep the milk from his cows and, he treated those cows like I told him. Yeah it did decide to become part of the 100 acres in a vote, sho'nuff. Kind'a like a bear, wolf and sheep voting on whats for dinner.

Oh, no, no, no...not so fast there Big T...Grandpa Nikita gifted Mr. 4 acres to 6 while and during the union of these soviet states, comrade. So when the BIG decision came around...little peeps from 4 acres decided that since the unions aren't unions anymore, then the deal is off, and I mean O-F. Especially since '6' wants to 'ho herself to those western pimps...

...and so we watch Mr. 100 acres welcoming 4 acres exactly where they belong, my man...
« Last Edit: August 20, 2014, 04:37:03 PM by GQBlues »
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2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1865 on: August 20, 2014, 06:04:14 PM »
Oh, no, no, no...not so fast there Big T...Grandpa Nikita gifted Mr. 4 acres to 6 while and during the union of these soviet states, comrade. So when the BIG decision came around...little peeps from 4 acres decided that since the unions aren't unions anymore, then the deal is off, and I mean O-F. Especially since '6' wants to 'ho herself to those western pimps...

...and so we watch Mr. 100 acres welcoming 4 acres exactly where they belong, my man...


Gifted? Really? No matter, you do recognize then that Crimea was part of a sovereign Ukraine. Lawfully, legally and rightfully. Actually it was more like the cow analogy. Here's you a free cow. Feed it groom it keep it healthy and give me all the milk from it. Then Uncle Indian giver Vlad sees another snatching on the udders and decides he want's the cow back.

lordtiberius

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1866 on: August 20, 2014, 07:58:32 PM »

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1867 on: August 20, 2014, 08:11:06 PM »

Gifted? Really? No matter, you do recognize then that Crimea was part of a sovereign Ukraine. Lawfully, legally and rightfully. Actually it was more like the cow analogy. Here's you a free cow. Feed it groom it keep it healthy and give me all the milk from it. Then Uncle Indian giver Vlad sees another snatching on the udders and decides he want's the cow back.

Part of Ukraine? You mean as in being an autonomous state that was located within the state of Ukraine, right? It still retains the right to choose its own dominion, which I know you would have to agree. Well, guess what, it did, and it just so happen 'it' chose to be under Russia's dominion...unless of course you're saying being an autonomous state Crimea cannot do that, which we would then have to agree that to be erroneous. Why? Because it is *a fact* Crimea is and was the *Autonomous Republic of Crimea*.

Now if you're speaking during the Soviet Union days, then it was part of a, well, a union. Its either nor, neither or...

Now if you're talking history, then let's lump in North America maybe even the Falkland Islands and many more out there, FP.

Bottom line here FP, it's mid-August now...all they had to do was wait until February 2015 and elect a new president they deemed to be the proper dude to lead the country anew. Ukraine didn't, so everything else is what it is...Folks can bitch about it, but just as the native Americans, or the native Australians and so many other *natives* out there can attest...it is what it is.
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2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1868 on: August 20, 2014, 09:25:26 PM »
Part of Ukraine? You mean as in being an autonomous state that was located within the state of Ukraine, right? It still retains the right to choose its own dominion, which I know you would have to agree. Well, guess what, it did, and it just so happen 'it' chose to be under Russia's dominion...unless of course you're saying being an autonomous state Crimea cannot do that, which we would then have to agree that to be erroneous. Why? Because it is *a fact* Crimea is and was the *Autonomous Republic of Crimea*.

Yes it was an autonomous state. Where did I state that it wasn't? It was an autonomous state within the sovereign nation of Ukraine. They voted to be under and join the dominion of Russia, at the barrel of a gun. I'm in Crimea, wake up one morning seeing tanks outside my door and a Russian soldier with an AK sticking the muzzle in my nose insisting I go check a ballot that lists me one choice, allow Russia to cornhole me rather than Ukraine, guess what? I'm checking the box. It's a no brainer. Seriously GQ, do you honestly believe that the Russian speaking folks in Crimea were in danger and needed Vlad to save them?
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Now if you're speaking during the Soviet Union days, then it was part of a, well, a union. Its either nor, neither or...

non sequitur, irrelevant

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Now if you're talking history, then let's lump in North America maybe even the Falkland Islands and many more out there, FP.

Bottom line here FP, it's mid-August now...all they had to do was wait until February 2015 and elect a new president they deemed to be the proper dude to lead the country anew. Ukraine didn't, so everything else is what it is...Folks can bitch about it, but just as the native Americans, or the native Australians and so many other *natives* out there can attest...it is what it is.

Two completely separate issues. Russia false flag invaded Crimea and took it. Now they are false flag invading Ukraine proper and currently getting bitch slapped at a tremendous cost to Ukraine. Why you remain in denial about this is beyond me. Because "you" believe Ukraine removed an elected dictator illegally, that Russia has all rights to rape, rob and pillage is asinine. Russia is not Ukraine. Obama's administration has broken the law and defiled the Constitution but guess what, they are still passing laws that are get this "legal".

Offline GQBlues

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1869 on: August 20, 2014, 09:38:06 PM »
Lol. I'm not denying anything. You say you knew Crimea is an autonomous state but keep on dismissing the fact of their choice of dominion in your arguments...if anyone is in denial, it is you.

Now if you would like to believe the folks in crimea was *under the gun* to exact their choice then surprise me with your take on how come it's been months since the referendum and the area hadn't been completely vacated of its population. There had been folks going in and out of the place and I know you won't be able to convince anyone it's a deserted place these days FP.

It is what it is, man. Crimea voted to be under Russian dominion and like I've already said, just deal with it.
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Offline JayH

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Ukraine’s Heroes: A father of two loses arm in Russia's war against Ukraine
« Reply #1870 on: August 21, 2014, 02:04:23 AM »

I think you have always been one-sided in your 'analysis' from afar. The win-win situation was something mentioned a while back
Fathertime!


No--it was something you said-all your own work.
Perhaps you can explain to this man and his family  what "win" is in this for him and them?

Ukraine’s Heroes: A father of two loses arm in Russia's war against Ukraine


Kateryna Hordiychuk, a young woman in her 30s, sits down on a neatly made bed in the hospital room to tell her husband’s war story while he is out for a cigarette. The room is full of light, freshly repaired and looks more like home with a new modern refrigerator, a microwave stove and some fruits in the vase on the table. There are six beds in the room, but only two are occupied by Gordichuk and her husband Serhiy.

Serhiy Hordiychuk, 35, from Volyn Oblast was mobilized in mid-March for 10-day military training, but had to undergo  urgent stomach surgery and stayed in military hospital for treatment. After the rehabilitation the man was sent to country’s east and then injured in a fight on Aug. 4.

“He spent a couple of weeks in the East and got an arm injury, so here we are,” his wife says casually as the door opens and Serhiy Hordiychuk comes in.

The soldier’s arm was amputated in early August, his forearm is still covered in bloody bandages and a dozen tubes are attached to the fresh wound.

“I used to work on constructions in Moscow, no longer will,” says Serhiy Hordiychuk. He came back from Russia only some few days before he was taken away from home for a military training and then to war. “Sounds like a joke,” the man smiles.

But it is not. The war was as real as it gets.

Serhiy Hordiychuk’s infantry brigade was taking part in the military sweep of the territory between two villages in Donetsk Oblast when the brigade fell into a trap and was shelled by Grad rockets.

“The Grad was fired from the Russian territory and then terrorists on the Ukrainian side joined the attack,” he says.

Hordiychuk was wounded by rocket shrapnel and evacuated just ten minutes later when the attack was repulsed.

“We were taken to the first aid unit, but when we were attempted to be moved to a hospital the helicopter was shelled again,” the soldier says. It took some seven hours to take the injured militants to the hospital in Dnipropetrovsk. And such a delay appeared to be critical.

“It was hot and after seven hours in such heat the tissue began to die,” the man says sadly and looks at his wound.

Both Serhiy and Kateryna Hordiychuk ensure the doctors in both Dnipropetrovsk and Kyiv hospitals did everything they could to save his arm. “But trying to save my arm longer would mean risking my life, and I am grateful they made the right decision,” the soldier says.

His wife, a nurse, agrees: “When I came and saw his arm it was already black, so I knew there are no chances,” she says.

It is yet hard to say how long the rehabilitation will take, so no plans for the future can be made.

The couple has two children - 13-year-old daughter Valentyna and 6-year-old son Sasha. “We are not telling them anything yet, just that dad is sick, though I am sure the daughter understands,” the man sighs.

Hordiychuk says he is not a hero, as he did not plan to go to war. And even when he was at the military training he did not think he would actually end up in the war zone.

“But thanks to the stomach disease it turns out that I volunteered, another joke of life,” he says with a sad laugh

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/ukraines-heroes-a-father-of-two-loses-arm-in-russias-war-against-ukraine-361421.html

SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline fathertime

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No--it was something you said-all your own work.
Perhaps you can explain to this man and his family  what "win" is in this for him and them?
 


Haha, Jayh, the yahoo king once again with poor reading comprehension skills!  Wars are going to produce casualties, EVERYBODY (but you) knows this, a question becomes how many, and what is the end result.  As I mentioned earlier, there was only a possibility of both sides benefiting (in the end), if that doesn't come to pass then that is how it goes, regardless there was always going to be casualties, it is only somebody feeble brained that would think otherwise.  It is funny you have been hanging on to this anger for all these months, too bad! …I've made my statements regarding the war, and I have no reason not to stand by them, even if the end result doesn't produce a win for both countries. 
Fathertime!   
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1872 on: August 21, 2014, 06:14:32 AM »
Lol. I'm not denying anything. You say you knew Crimea is an autonomous state but keep on dismissing the fact of their choice of dominion in your arguments...if anyone is in denial, it is you.

Now if you would like to believe the folks in crimea was *under the gun* to exact their choice then surprise me with your take on how come it's been months since the referendum and the area hadn't been completely vacated of its population. There had been folks going in and out of the place and I know you won't be able to convince anyone it's a deserted place these days FP.

It is what it is, man. Crimea voted to be under Russian dominion and like I've already said, just deal with it.

Then perhaps we're both in denial. Crimea got bum rushed by the Russian military to hold an election in two weeks to join guess which country? That's right, Russia. They turned from Port duty to occupational forces. Funny how being an autonomous region they didn't vote to secede from Ukraine and become an independent nation. They voted to join Mother Russia who already happen to have 20K troops there on the street and just so happen to have another 20K en route from Moscow to insure a fair election, huh? Let it not be said that Ole Vlad isn't a humanitarian in the truest of sense....LOL

It is what it is. That is where I suppose we'll agree. Apparently as for the rest we never will

Offline JayH

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Haha, Jayh, the yahoo king once again with poor reading comprehension skills!  Wars are going to produce casualties, EVERYBODY (but you) knows this, a question becomes how many, and what is the end result.  As I mentioned earlier, there was only a possibility of both sides benefiting (in the end), if that doesn't come to pass then that is how it goes, regardless there was always going to be casualties, it is only somebody feeble brained that would think otherwise.  It is funny you have been hanging on to this anger for all these months, too bad! …I've made my statements regarding the war, and I have no reason not to stand by them, even if the end result doesn't produce a win for both countries. 
Fathertime!
The typical inaccuracy of not only your conclusions but a direct repeated assertion-- yahoo-- can you show me where have ever used it?  It highlights how you have not bothered to ever read the material posted-- and a point I made to mods here-- whole articles do need to be posted so cretins like you can read them--even if not capable of understanding them.
While I am at it-- another insensitive git who thinks his sources are better than anyone else's-- previously said where he was getting his info-- so it was hardly a surprise that he is so deluded.The problem for him--and you-- is that your narrow view is not wide enough for you to get an understanding.
Your reply highlights your callous disregard and respect for human life.The point was made to you by several people( and to others who come here to argue theoretical semantics while the world burns-in this case Ukraine) that this is a real life tragedy unfolding in Ukraine-- and many people have wives,family and extended family and friends whose lives are at risk as I write. This is real--not some theory.
Mothers have had hair turn grey overnight as their 19 yo sons go off to war. Fathers of young families are being maimed and killed  -- and you-- you smugly never know when to shut up.
Today--I am in a smaller Ukrainian city-- where the funerals of 6 men killed in the east were held yesterday and today- these men and  all those fighting for Ukraine's future are real life heroes and the respect for those serving is incredible to see.
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1874 on: August 21, 2014, 07:07:38 AM »
It highlights how you have not bothered to ever read the material posted-- and a point I made to mods here-- whole articles do need to be posted so cretins like you can read them--even if not capable of understanding them.


Your point is moot. The surest way to insure somebody reads your articles is to post a link to said article. They will read it if they are interested. Posting the entire article in a post on a thread is a near guarantee that they will be annoyed and scroll past it. If you were not so thick, you would have the capability of grasping that simple concept. You can't force anyone to read your posts but, you can insure you an eternal place in time out if that is your desire with your challenging of the Mods or posting your incessant articles.
This account does NOT accept PM's. If you need to contact the RWD Staff, please use the 'Report to moderator' link.

 

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