More Bad News for Russia

[AkMike]

It'll take years to achieve this level again if ever. The world won't forget that Russian is a state sponsor of terrorism.

[lordtiberius]

Russians are survivors, it is on their blood.

Except for those survivors in compartment 9 of K-141

[Muzh]

You bring up a good point, so one question is are we overestimating Russia's strength? 

Yes


http://russiamil.wordpress.com/2015/01/14/russian-naval-capabilities-and-procurement-plans/

Would Russia have backed down like Hitler says he would have?  Well that ship may have already sailed at this point anyway.

Right.

It seems to me that Russia is paying a price for what they have done.  Did Germany pay anything like this after they snagged the Rhineland?  Russia may wind up with parts of Ukraine but does that really make them a stronger nation, given all that seems to be happening?  My primary concern is us *the USA*, and how all of this is going to effect us.

Again, because Obama's strategy of not attacking Russia, like some unthinkers here blast him for not doing and also for being, er, different, and allowing the EU to take the lead so far has resulted in a "non-hostile" situation. Still, the Russians are blaming the US for its DIRECT involvement (and some EU fascists) in Ukraine. Now, imagine if the US would have gotten involved. WWIII

I don't see Russia's actions as something that "The Average American" needs to be TOO worried about.  There really isn't very much farther they can go without having to go into real battle.  Fortifying the parts of Ukraine that are unaffected is what I could get on board with, and basically let the other parts do whatever they are going to do.... both sides get something and we move on...yes I know it smells like appeasement...and I have yet to see a better option.


Fathertime!   

That's exactly what the majority of Americans said in 1939.

[Muzh]

Why? It is Russia's national currency. Doesn't matter how it is related to dollar in terms of making kopecks.

Why don't the Russians trade oil in their national currency?

[Muzh]

AK, first of all the prices in Russia are NOT rising proportionally to dollar/ruble rate.
Next, like I wrote many times, we had this situation back in 90s and survived.
Russians are survivors, it is on their blood.

You know Doll, that is very easy for you to say from the comfort of your American household.

[Brasscasing]

Everyone ready for the newest face of "patriotism" in Russia?

 Read on...

Patriotic group formed to defend Russia against pro-democracy protesters

..."Anti-Maidan pledges to fight any attempts to bring Russians to streets to protest against government

Alexander Zaldostanov, leader of biker gang the Night Wolves, was joined at the launch of anti-Maidan by Russian nationalist politicians. Photograph: Genya Savilov/AFP/Getty Images

A new group of “patriots” have vowed to defend Russia against pro-democracy protesters who “threaten its constitution”, using violent means if necessary. The group, which calls itself anti-Maidan, said on Thursday it would fight any attempts to bring Russians on to the streets to protest against the government. Its name is a reference to the Maidan protests in Kiev last year that eventually led to the toppling of former Ukraine president Viktor Yanukovych.

“All street movements and colour revolutions lead to blood. Women, children and old people suffer first,” said Dmitry Sablin, previously a long-standing MP from President Vladimir Putin’s United Russia party, who recently became a senator in Russia’s upper house of parliament.

“It is not acceptable for the minority to force its will upon the majority, as happened in Ukraine,” he added. “Under the slogan of fighting for democracy there is instead total fear, total propaganda, and no freedom.”

Sablin was joined at the launch of anti-Maidan by Russian nationalist politicians, a female ultimate-fighting champion and “The Surgeon”, leader of a biker gang known as the Night Wolves. The group said it would open up membership to anyone who was interested in joining.

“Decisions should be made in Moscow and not in Washington or Brussels,” said Nikolai Starikov, a nationalist writer and marginal politician. All the group insisted that the west had used pro-democracy activists to conquer Ukraine, both during the 2004 Orange Revolution and in last year’s Maidan protests, and was now looking to Russia.

“The ‘orange beast’ is sharpening its teeth and looking to Russia,” said The Surgeon, whose real name is Alexander Zaldostanov. He suggested an alternate name for the anti-Maidan group could be “Death to faggots”, without explaining why.

Zaldostanov has been given awards by the Kremlin for his patriotic work and has frequently been pictured with Putin. A biker show put on by the Night Wolves in Crimea after the peninsula was annexed last year portrayed Ukrainians as fascists and was shown on Russian state television.

The anti-Maidan group claims it has no funding from any official or other sources, and is purely an “initiative group” formed by like-minded citizens. It said that in future any “small costs” incurred would probably be covered by donations, and stressed it was acting independently of the state. However, the fact it held a press conference at a state news agency and was filmed by Russian state television suggests at the least implicit backing from authorities.

There was a vagueness about what activities the anti-Maidan activists would engage in, but they said they would begin on Thursday evening at a protest in support of opposition politician Alexei Navalny. The anti-corruption blogger and fierce Putin critic was given a suspended jail sentence late last year in a case widely believed to be political. His brother was jailed for three-and-a-half years. The anti-Maidan group said it would attempt to stop Navalny’s supporters from “behaving badly” at their protests.

“Personally I am a fan of the civilised, democratic intelligent way of deciding conflicts, but if we need to take up weapons then of course I will be ready,” said Yulia Bereznikova, the ultimate fighting champion.

Sablin said there was no great risk of a “coloured revolution” in Russia for now, but that it was important to act quickly to avoid the risk growing.

“Maidan in Kiev did not appear just like that. Everyone was paid, everyone was paid to be there, was paid for every stone that was thrown, for every bottle thrown,” said Sablin, echoing a frequently repeated Russian claim, for which there is no evidence. “We need to strangle all these all at the start.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/15/group-anti-maidan-defend-russia-pro-democracy-protesters

Putin's politicians screaming for women and children's blood and bike gangs ready to enforce it.

The mighty Russians at their finest. Very impressive.

Brass

 

[Muzh]

Heh, it seems that all the hustlers and charlatans are coming out of the woodwork.

[JayH]

Brass--perhaps it should be in this thread-

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=17626.0

The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis

[JayH]

Heh, it seems that all the hustlers and charlatans are coming out of the woodwork.

Or--they  a getting ready for any democratic demonstration to be met with organised violence  under defence of Russian values guise-- ala Yanukovych and Berkut created street thugs in Kiev & across Ukraine

[lordtiberius]

Brass's post is a prelude to Civil War.  Can we remain neutral?

[Muzh]

Brass's post is a prelude to Civil War.  Can we remain neutral?

Yes we can and we will.

[jone]

Yes we can and we will.

A civil war requires participants from two entities within the country.  I don't think any Russian Ukrainians wish to fight against Kyiv in an armed conflict after seeing the carnage in the East. 

Now, if Krim were to launch against Ukraine, proper, then it could be construed as a civil war, however, Krim has resolved itself to be part of Russia.  So it would be Russia attacking Ukraine.  Hmmm.  Where have we seen that before?

[lordtiberius]

I meant a civil war in Russia.  I don't know I have never been there.  Thoughts?

[Muzh]

And I meant what I said.

[lordtiberius]

Fine.  What do you suggest?

[sleepycat]

Better start learning Mandarin if you live in Siberia or the Russian Far East...

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/01/14/the-most-debated-room-for-debates/why-china-will-reclaim-siberia-21

[JayH]

That 20 dollars a barrel seems like a wet dream for you JayH...today oil is up 6% to over 48 dollars a barrel, so it would take more than another 50% drop from a low point to get down to 20 a barrel...


Fathertime!

OH-- not what the numbers say is it? Not $48--it is
Not only do you not want to read links-you can not even see who actually made that prediction.Perhaps you should stick to something you know about--of course if you do-- we will not be reading any of your posts.
Oil is at--

$41.65    ---- http://www.opec.org/opec_web/en/data_graphs/40.htm
Oil is at--
http://nvua.net/opinion/rabinovich/chto-budet-s-rf-pri-20-za-barrel-29348.html

But between that period and the current situation, there is one difference. Since the peak in July last year, these funds have eliminated only 25% of its "position on the increase." But their positions are so huge that even if they eliminate another 25%, they will still own a large number of contracts than they held during the bear market in 2008. According to Steve Briese, the possible elimination of another 25% is quite easy to cause capitulation to $ 20 per barrel.

[fathertime]

Yes


http://russiamil.wordpress.com/2015/01/14/russian-naval-capabilities-and-procurement-plans/



 

Thanks for the link.

Again, because Obama's strategy of not attacking Russia, like some unthinkers here blast him for not doing and also for being, er, different, and allowing the EU to take the lead so far has resulted in a "non-hostile" situation. Still, the Russians are blaming the US for its DIRECT involvement (and some EU fascists) in Ukraine. Now, imagine if the US would have gotten involved. WWIII

Obama has not made many wrong moves, regarding this particular crisis...despite what the naysayers are saying....another guy in office and this would have played out differently, but probably worse....but we will never know....a steady hand has been his greatest strength thus far....I think it is loco to talk about bombing the Russians...as if they won't retaliate in a significant way. 


Fathertime!

[lordtiberius]

All lives matter, FT.

[lordtiberius]

Beijing is a lot closer than Moscow (& perhaps less greedy).

[fathertime]

OH-- not what the numbers say is it? Not $48--it is
Not only do you not want to read links-you can not even see who actually made that prediction.Perhaps you should stick to something you know about--of course if you do-- we will not be reading any of your posts.
Oil is at--

$41.65    ---- http://www.opec.org/opec_web/en/data_graphs/40.htm
Oil is at--
http://nvua.net/opinion/rabinovich/chto-budet-s-rf-pri-20-za-barrel-29348.html

But between that period and the current situation, there is one difference. Since the peak in July last year, these funds have eliminated only 25% of its "position on the increase." But their positions are so huge that even if they eliminate another 25%, they will still own a large number of contracts than they held during the bear market in 2008. According to Steve Briese, the possible elimination of another 25% is quite easy to cause capitulation to $ 20 per barrel.

Oil tycoon Jay is having more wet dreams.   Oil is at 46 and 1/2 right now (not 41) it hasn't been that low yet....I have a live link from your favorite website:
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=clg15.nym


I asserted a couple weeks ago that it is very unlikely to go below 30 and not stay below 40 for an extended period, unless we hit another recession...and if that happens then who knows...


Fathertime!

[lordtiberius]

Demand for oil will push the price up or geopolitical instability - the cornered rat

[JayH]

Let OPEC know will ya!!   They have the wrong price!!

[TheBullRDR]

I think it is loco to talk about bombing the Russians...as if they won't retaliate in a significant way. 


Fathertime!

That is exactly right.  Surest way to get that idiot over there to break out his big toys is to whip a rock at him with a sling shot.  With his mentality, he would relish the chance to have a reason to cry foul and go at it with the USA. 

[AC]

Better start learning Mandarin if you live in Siberia or the Russian Far East...

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/01/14/the-most-debated-room-for-debates/why-china-will-reclaim-siberia-21

Because Russia has so many Nuclear weapons it's highly unlikely that something like this could happen in our lifetimes.  Perhaps someday if there is some sort of EMP weapon which will wipe out all the Nukes, then maybe.

Here is a comment by somebody who read the article and commented about it online:



HJ
 USA 16 hours ago
"As the previous commentator suggested, the ideas behind this article are based largely on outdated fear mongering. This "yellow peril" myth dates back to the late 19th century, & has little basis in reality.

The most generous estimates suggest that ethnic Chinese make up no more than 3-5% of the regional population in Siberia & the Russian Far East (& yes, those are distinct regions, learn your geography), most of whom are concentrated in the border areas. Out of that 3-5%, nearly 9 out of 10 are seasonal migrants with no intention of long-term settlement. This translates into 300 thousand Chinese, & 30 thousand possible permanent settlers ('permanent' is defined here as more than 2 years, btw). The bottom line is this - "invasion by migration" is not an option.

As for the military option mentioned in this article, a full-scale armed invasion of the world's largest nuclear weapons state is hardly a realistic choice for China. This is about as likely a scenario as an UFO-landing in Manhattan. No amount of Russian natural resources would offset the devastation to China brought by a nuclear exchange.

Furthermore, it's not in China's strategic interests to annex Siberia & upset the status quo. China is already gaining ever increasing access to Russian resources without a takeover; any attempt to do so would provoke Russia to limit Chinese trade & investment opportunities, as well as possible retaliation against China via support for separatists in Tibet & Xinjiang."