More Bad News for Russia

[AC]

You sound exactly like JayH.  Hilarious.

That's exactly what I thought.  You can't answer a simple question as to why Russian troops have invaded Ukraine with tanks and grad rocket launchers, because your whole reason to be here is to try to deflect away from what is going on over there by criticizing American foreign policy.

Just another internet troll spewing nonsense. 

[Boethius]

No, the US didn't like how they did things.

I don't think the second invasion of Iraq was because of how Saddam Hussein ran things, nor do I think interference in the former Yugoslavia had anything to do with a lack of democracy in Milosevic's Serbia.

[Steamer]

Russia has already invaded.  It did so at the very start of this conflict.  Will Russia continue?  It depends on the reaction of the West.  Causing Russia even more economic pain likely will, eventually, have the desired effect.

I believe Russia absolutely will continue and the reaction from the west will be tsk tsk tut tut.

[AC]

I believe Russia absolutely will continue and the reaction from the west will be tsk tsk tut tut.

Temporarily yes.  In the long run no.  I think what is unknow is how long Putin can survive the sanctions, the low oil prices and the Oligarchs turning against him.  Once his Armies are decimated by the West I expect him to take his own life in some lonely bunker.

[Boethius]

No, the US didn't like how they did things.

Cuba is a completely different story, and while things did have to change there, no one can say socialism was the right answer.

Iraq was a brutal dictatorship, so regime change there was not necessarily a bad thing, though I don't think the way it was done was a net positive.  But, let's not kid ourselves.  The US did not go into Iraq for democracy.

I believe Russia absolutely will continue and the reaction from the west will be tsk tsk tut tut.

The sanctions show they are doing more than "tut tut".  I think further reaction will depend on what occurs.  If the war escalates, I believe there will be a stronger reaction, perhaps with more arms for Ukraine.  Although really, this requires a diplomatic solution.
 

[Steamer]

I don't think the second invasion of Iraq was because of how Saddam Hussein ran things, nor do I think interference in the former Yugoslavia had anything to do with a lack of democracy in Milosevic's Serbia.

Saddam made the mistake of wanting to take over the region so that all the oil producing countries would be under one (his) control. This would not be allowed.


Slobo had the bad luck of Clinton being caught getting a knob shine and needing to divert attention.

[BillyB]

The contract was penned in 2011 then cancelled in 2013. The U.S. is not buying more choppers, the Russians only completed the delivery and fulfilled the contract last fall. Washington did cancel the contract because of the controversy surrounding Assad.

Congress told the Pentagon stop buying the choppers; that's it, no more chopper buying which is exactly what happened. If Russia was delivering on an order already paid for to the Afghan government then let them.

That is not what happened. Brass, can you step out of 2013 for a moment? Did you not read what happened after 2013 in the links I provided? Jane's is the premier expert on the worlds weapons and read what they have to say below in a Nov 2014 article. "Congress unsuccessfully tried to halt the purchase due to Russia's military support for Syria, and later over the Ukraine crisis" Everything you thought happened in 2013 did not happen and the Pentagon continued to buy the helicopters and pay money to Russia. Congress didn't have power to tell the Pentagon what to do. Obama does. Congress asked the Pentagon to STOP IMMEDIATELY, and not honor the rest of the contract. The Pentagon initially agreed probably so they could look good in the press and keep Americans happy but instead, they continued to defy Congress. Somebody really wanted this deal to proceed against Congress's wishes and Obama is America's top general. Not hard to figure out.


http://www.janes.com/article/45317/afghanistan-gets-final-mi-17s


Another article that says Pentagon sidestepped Congress. Doesn't matter if Russia is helping Assad or hurting Ukraine, we proceeded to do business with Russia and let them profit while they're invading Ukraine.


http://archive.defensenews.com/article/20131101/DEFREG01/311010011/Russia-Delivers-12-Helos-Afghan-Army

You do realize that the choppers were not only funded by the U.S. but by NATO and Russia as well, right?

http://www.nato.int/nrc-website/en/articles/20121130-nrc-10-years-hmtf/

NATO-Russia is not buying the choppers. America did. Your article says NATO-Russia is spending 20 million for maintenance of those choppers and training the pilots. Russia supplies the parts and training, NATO the cash. America spent over a billion, NATO 20 million, and Russia profits the most all while we're telling France to cancel their sale of ships to Russia.

[sleepycat]

Life is not that bad in Russia,

Yeah, if you compare it to life in Sierra Leon!

If double digit inflation, currency tanking 50%, and projected GDP contraction 5% doesn't qualify as 'bad', then please tell us what does.

[Boethius]

Saddam made the mistake of wanting to take over the region so that all the oil producing countries would be under one (his) control. This would not be allowed.


Slobo had the bad luck of Clinton being caught getting a knob shine and needing to divert attention.

Saddam was barely hanging on to power by the time Iraq II occurred.

The first NATO bombing campaign was before the Lewisnky scandal, and I suspect the second one would have occurred in any event.  Madeline Albright was rather taken with the KLA terrorists.

[Brasscasing]

Cuba is a completely different story, and while things did have to change there, no one can say socialism was the right answer.

Iraq was a brutal dictatorship, so regime change there was not necessarily a bad thing, though I don't think the way it was done was a net positive.  But, let's not kid ourselves.  The US did not go into Iraq for democracy.
The sanctions show they are doing more than "tut tut".  I think further reaction will depend on what occurs.  If the war escalates, I believe there will be a stronger reaction, perhaps with more arms for Ukraine.  Although really, this requires a diplomatic solution.

+1 (to all your responses regarding this side bar line of discussion, Boe)

I still believe that the end result is going to be military intervention by the west though. It's becoming less avoidable by the day, imo.

Brass

[Steamer]

Name names.  Which neoconservatives?  Name names, if you can . . .

Cheney Rumsfeld Wolfowitz Bolton Abrams Perle Bremer


I had to look up the last 4.

[lordtiberius]

Why do you think that? Because I don't think that we have the right to force others to our way of thinking? That's rather elitist of you isn't it?

I have been called a lot of things.  Ask Jone.

I am reading your posts and I don't think you like America very much.  I could be wrong.  But usually lefties or eighties who love America criticicize their government name particular politicians, parties or philosophies while people who hate America generalize and then deny they hate America.  Do you hate America?  Yes or no and why?  Thx.

[lordtiberius]

Cheney Rumsfeld Wolfowitz Bolton Abrams Perle Bremer


I had to look up the last 4.

None of those guys are in power guess again.

[Boethius]

None of those guys are in power guess again.

Not now, but a number of them ran American foreign policy during Dubya's presidency.
 

[Steamer]

I have been called a lot of things.  Ask Jone.

I am reading your posts and I don't think you like America very much.  I could be wrong.  But usually lefties or eighties who love America criticicize their government name particular politicians, parties or philosophies while people who hate America generalize and then deny they hate America.  Do you hate America?  Yes or no and why?  Thx.

You are wrong, I love my country.
I don't like my government neglecting its citizens but sticking its nose into everyone elses business.

[Steamer]

None of those guys are in power guess again.

The 90's are gone too.

[lordtiberius]

First of all, he is President of ALL Americans, including ignorants and clowns.


I doubt very much he will lean on Poroshenko.


Finally, you just can't wait for a nuclear holocaust, right? Goes to show your state of mind.

You are in denial.  But don't worry the great majority can't even find Ukraine on a Risk board.

[lordtiberius]

You are wrong, I love my country.
I don't like my government neglecting its citizens but sticking its nose into everyone elses business.

You love America?  Why?  Its a land of ignorant war mongerers divided by two camps the wimps and hypocrites.  Why would YOU associate much less love America?  Why?

[lordtiberius]

Yeah, if you compare it to life in Sierra Leon!

If double digit inflation, currency tanking 50%, and projected GDP contraction 5% doesn't qualify as 'bad', then please tell us what does.

Ahh people's standard of living and incomes are actually growing in most parts on non-Muslim Africa.  Still better than Russia . . .

[lordtiberius]

Saddam was barely hanging on to power by the time Iraq II occurred.

Saddam is an angel.  Ever been to his petting zoo?  I have.

And for a guy who had 3 million Iraqis die during his time in the sanctions sin bin he sure did build over 300 palaces.  Barely hanging on I tell ya!

[Boethius]

Saddam is an angel.  Ever been to his petting zoo?  I have.

And for a guy who had 3 million Iraqis die during his time in the sanctions sin bin he sure did build over 300 palaces.  Barely hanging on I tell ya!

He was barely hanging on to power at the time of the US invasion.  How many palaces he had is irrelevant to that point.
 

[LiveFromUkraine]

That's exactly what I thought.  You can't answer a simple question as to why Russian troops have invaded Ukraine with tanks and grad rocket launchers, because your whole reason to be here is to try to deflect away from what is going on over there by criticizing American foreign policy.

Just another internet troll spewing nonsense.

Funny, coming from a guy who probably has never set foot in Russia or Ukraine.  When you planning on putting the keyboards down and making a trip?

[lordtiberius]

He was barely hanging on to power at the time of the US invasion.  How many palaces he had is irrelevant to that point.

By barely hanging on?  Saddam used take political prisoners and use them to test hand grenades.  He has a whole best of Saddam torture bids on ogrish.com  He would take some torture them in front of their families or rape the wife and daughters in front of their families.  I was in charge of the maintenance of Radiniwiyah palace, the first palace he built for himself in 1979.  It sits atop a man made hill.  He killed the chief architect fearing he would hand over the blue prints to assassins.  He bragged how one Arab could take on a coalition of over 100 countries led by the United States and survived.  His security service the Mukhabarat organized the first effective guerrilla resistance against the invasion force.  He gave safe harbor to Abu Musab Zarqawi who would later establish Al Qaeda in Iraq.  So that is barely hanging on for you eh?

OK.  No arguments here.

[jone]

Yeah, if you compare it to life in Sierra Leon!

If double digit inflation, currency tanking 50%, and projected GDP contraction 5% doesn't qualify as 'bad', then please tell us what does.

Spending 35% of your budget on defense spending sounds pretty bad to me also.  Can't forget that little tidbit.

[jone]

This is where you misunderstand me. I don't think that Russia has a right to invade Ukraine but given the history and circumstances I know that Russia WILL invade. I would be shocked beyond belief if there are no Russian troops or US "advisors" in UA. I think the west is playing a dangerous game and Russia ain't playing.

Interesting post. 

You realize, of course, that if the West is fully engaged, Russia loses.  Putin understands this.  Otherwise he would have rolled over Ukraine like a steam roller and that would be that.

The other thing that immediately comes to mind is that you state that Russia isn't playing a game.  Everything I've seen from Putin is gamesmanship.  The whole 'brokering government change' during Maidan.  The move into Crimea.  The unacknowledged war in Eastern Ukraine. 

You're the one who doesn't see it for what it is.  This is a chess match that Putin has created.  You cannot argue that Russia 'ain't playin a game'.  They are.