Novosibirsk Doesn't Believe in Tears: TwoBit's Sixteen Days In Novosibirsk

[Daveman]

I don't believe you; even a little bit.

Why not? Is every woman cut from exactly the same mold with zero variation?  

I don't think Aloe is being honest, and  I am being honest in telling her that.

Everyone knows that in every country of the world there are thousands of very nice  men (and women) who are shy and never get any dates.  This is not the case for the macho men and flirtatious women.  If Aloe were correct, the situation would be reversed.

You're speaking here in absolutes.  Shy people tend to have fewer dates simply because they don't ASK as much (for a myriad of perceived 'psychological' reasons).  Which actually has less to do with attraction than one may think.

[SFandEE]

I don't like the word game much either, but am sympathetic to having a sense of being and persona.  When confronted with the unknown it is a good idea to have a sense of how you would prefer to act in that situation.  The thing I despise in conversation, now mostly on Forums (I don't think this one though) is a rating system for women.  

[GQBlues]

Why not? Is every woman cut from exactly the same mold with zero variation?  

On a baseline, Daveman, they pretty much are. They will react to the same stimuli, women are women. It's in the degree of their favorable reaction is where they'll differ. I just simply believe Aloe has never met, or even been bit by a player.  

[Sculpto]

On a baseline, Daveman, they pretty much are. They will react to the same stimuli, women are women. I just simply believe Aloe has never met, or even been bit by a player.  

I just bit my tongue so hard I am bleeding.  I don't do this often but... 

[Daveman]

When I have a girlfriend and we are having relations regularly.. for whatever reason.. psychological.. chemical.. mystical.. other women notice and are more interested.. I first noticed this phenomena when i was in Uni and it has repeated dozens if not hundreds of times since.

...

So, do you think it is because of the "lady" on your arm?  

or could it possibly be that when one is with a woman, or in a relationship, that one has a projected persona of relaxed confidence as opposed to one of 'trying to impress'?

[vwrw]

“Game” is the art of generating attraction in women.  As you and 2012isFiction pointed out above, game can be used to bed 20-year-old sluts in nightclubs.  But game can also be used for finding a great woman to marry and share your life.  It can be used to keep your wife attracted to you and keep vitality in your long-term relationship.  If a man wants a woman in his life for a night, a year or a lifetime, he obviously must generate attraction in her.   You can increase your attractiveness by acting in some ways rather than others.  The choice of the word “game” for this isn’t really a great choice since it implies disingenuous manipulation.  I’m honestly looking for a woman to marry and be the mother of my children.  So I don’t believe that trying to generate attraction among them is disingenuous.

Granted there is nothing wrong with increasing your attractiveness as long as you do not pretend someone who you are not.  By pretending that you are not interested in a girl while you are interested in her, you exhibit a false identity. I agree obtaining affection by false pretense can be used to bed sluts in nightclubs.  However, being disingenuous when you are looking for a wife is doomed technique. You may be able to seduce high quality woman into marriage by usage of the method, but it is impossible and burdensome to maintain false pretense for 24/7, and once you are tired of doing that, your wife might start thinking about divorce on the basis of unmeet expectations.   

If I want to have a relationship with a woman, then I must be the leader.  I say this because I have the frames “men are the leaders in relationships” and “I am a high-value man capable of being a leader.”  If I date a woman and she also has the frames "men are leaders" and “TwoBitBandit is a good leader” then our frames are in agreement.  We have the possibility to get along because I want to lead, she wants to follow, and she trusts my judgment and enjoys my leadership.

TwoBitBandit, if you are a leader, you do not need to play games for everyone to see that. Only if you are not a leader, you need to fake frame it.

If a man has a high value woman at his side, then other women will be attracted to him immediately.  If a man is clearly leading other men, she’ll be attracted to that.  She cares a lot about what others think of the man.  Status is critical.  Women will very rarely "marry down" in status.

Although I agree that generally women are attracted to same men, and they rarely “marry down” in status, the problem with your theory is that you took a correlation (as quality of a woman beside a man increases, the number of women desiring the man increases) and converted it into causation (quality of a woman beside a man increases the number of women desiring the man). In fact, a third variable may be in work there. Lily referred to the third variable as "something that attracts women". I think the something is a combination of qualities. According to a survey in many different countries, the combination of qualities consists of a male being healthy looking, affluent, intelligent, and brave, if I recalled that correctly. This combination of qualities may attract the high quality woman that stays beside a man and other women to him.

[tim 360]

No comment on the game and frame etc but TBB and Lily are both correct in their own way, I think.  I have found that usually a given guy will have more "perceived value" to other women, if it is evident that other women find this guy very interesting.  I've seen this in action many times and I don't really know if women telegraph this telepathically or with eye and body language or if the guy possesses the "value ingredients" and women instinctively or rationally recognize it.  Now usually, the guy is not even in the "frame game" because he may not even see them, but the women are keyed on him.

Of course I have known some beautiful women who definitely do prefer a guy on the shy side.

I'm not knocking TBB's "frame" or "game" at all.  He has a limited amount of time to manage his trip and search and he wants some frame of reference or method to help him to decide if he thinks a girl is really interested in him or is he just spinning his wheels

[Ranetka]

Such an interesting discussion, thank you everyone. Had such a lot of post on Theory of Attraction (he he)

It is probably my fault for not expressing myself properly but I really meant something much simpler:

1. Do you think creating some insecurity in woman (i. .e not returning her call in time) will help you to attract her? I think it is only helps to attract insecure women, it used to work on me but not anymore, like Aloe I do not care for people who are not interested.
2. I fully agreed with VWRW, I think it is for the first time. (I rarely post but read a lot).
3. It was conformed one more time - once you disagree with native speakers they think it's because you do not understand English enough.

[Sculpto]

So, do you think it is because of the "lady" on your arm?  

or could it possibly be that when one is with a woman, or in a relationship, that one has a projected persona of relaxed confidence as opposed to one of 'trying to impress'?

I don't really know Dave.. I am pretty laid back as it is and I don't in general try to go out of my way to impress ladies in public.. I have much better luck when they approach me.. but.. the dynamics change when there is a lady on your arm for sure.. that is confirmed repeatedly

[Misha]

Granted there is nothing wrong with increasing your attractiveness as long as you do not pretend someone who you are not.  By pretending that you are not interested in a girl while you are interested in her, you exhibit a false identity. I agree obtaining affection by false pretense can be used to bed sluts in nightclubs.  However, being disingenuous when you are looking for a wife is doomed technique. You may be able to seduce high quality woman into marriage by usage of the method, but it is impossible and burdensome to maintain false pretense for 24/7, and once you are tired of doing that, your wife might start thinking about divorce on the basis of unmet expectations.

I agree with VWRW's post. It is one thing to use "game" to get a one night stand. The challenge is the morning after, or the eventual transition to a long-term relationship. Sure, game may be good to get a first and second date, but how do you keep it going after that?

[Ade]

Granted there is nothing wrong with increasing your attractiveness as long as you do not pretend someone who you are not.  By pretending that you are not interested in a girl while you are interested in her, you exhibit a false identity. I agree obtaining affection by false pretense can be used to bed sluts in nightclubs.  However, being disingenuous when you are looking for a wife is doomed technique. You may be able to seduce high quality woman into marriage by usage of the method, but it is impossible and burdensome to maintain false pretense for 24/7, and once you are tired of doing that, your wife might start thinking about divorce on the basis of unmeet expectations.   

TwoBitBandit, if you are a leader, you do not need to play games for everyone to see that. Only if you are not a leader, you need to fake frame it.

Very strange. I actually agree with you. 

"Game playing" is for teenagers. He should be himself, be open, straightforward and honest.

[TwoBitBandit]

Day 5:  Wednesday, June 30

I wake up unusually early, at around 8 am.  As I do my daily ritual of reading news and drinking coffee, I feel very restless.  I’m pacing around the kitchen like crazy.  My mind is going a million miles an hour thinking about girls and visas.

Olesia sends me an SMS to say that she’s on her way from Kemerova and will arrive at 2:55 pm and gives me the address, Красный Проспект, 4.  It’s about a half-hour walk from my place.  The metro won’t really save me that much time.

I have a chat with the flat agency owner about the visa registration.  I really want to like her because she’s obviously sincerely trying to help, but she’s just not equipped to solve the problem.  I’m sort of annoyed with her: why is she marketing a flat rental business to foreigners if she doesn’t have the right contacts to fix this problem?  I get hold of some contacts I know in Moscow and they just register my visa in Moscow for 1500 roubles.  I don’t know if this will cause me a problem when I get to the border.  I guess I’ll find out in twelve days.

Around noon my mobile phone just stops working.  I can’t send SMS messages or get my balance, I just get weird error messages like “can’t connect.”  I don’t think it’s low balance, since I added a bunch of money right when I got it and don’t use it much.  Besides, even when you have low or zero balance the system will usually let you dial the “check balance” feature (*105# in this case).  I try to turn it off then off a few times, take out the SIM card, etc but nothing brings it back to operation.  I decide to walk to the supermarket and add a couple hundred roubles at the electronic kiosk but that doesn’t help either.  So, I’m distraught.  I can contact girls using ipipi but I can only do that from my flat.  Today’s plan will be a disaster if I don’t get a working phone.

About half an hour later it starts beeping like crazy and all of the messages I tried to send earlier were automatically sent and made it through.  Perhaps the network just went down for an hour.  This is Russia: expect the unexpected.

I call Anna up to talk about the ballet plans.  She can’t make it in time for the opening, but she’ll meet me at the intermission.  I agree.

At around 2:15 I leave the flat to go meet Olesia.  As soon as I get out, I regret wearing a heavy cotton shirt: I should have worn one of my linen shirts…. Cuz it is friggin’ HOT.  I get to the bus station about six or seven minutes early.  Olesia gets to the station a few minutes late and then we spend ten minutes trying to find one another.  The problem is that the station is very noisy and I can’t understand what she’s saying on the phone.

We finally find each other: she looks exactly like her pictures.  She’s also passably cute: above average for Russian girls but not what you’d call “hot.”  I suggest the zoo, but she says it’s too far away and doesn’t want to risk being late coming back.  We walk down to the river which is pretty close and start walking along the embankment and chatting.  The conversation is a little cold and lightweight.  She doesn’t laugh at most of my jokes.  If I “accidentally” rub shoulders with her while we’re walking, she increases the distance.  Eventually we get to a middle part of the embankment where there are a bunch of childrens’ rides and “tent cafes.”  (Those of you who have been to the FSU know what I’m talking about.)  I lead us into one of the cafes.  We get some drinks and sit down.  I’m a little more comfortable now since we’re sitting in the shade of the tent.  We sit there chatting for about half an hour.

I’m not that impressed with Olesia.  She’s 26 but doesn’t really seem to have any clarity about what she wants out of life.  She hasn’t really stepped out of her box in any meaningful way: she still lives in the same house where she grew up and the only other cities she has visited are Tomsk and Novosibirsk.  She seems to defer to her parents’ opinions a lot.  Honestly, I’m surprised she even came to meet me: her parents were against it.  She’s not sure if she could leave the country if she found the right man.  Between her lack of clarity and the lack of chemistry between us, I think this isn’t going anywhere.  I’m not that into her and she’s not that into me.

We continue to walk around the park and sit on some park benches here and there.  We’re either roasting in the sun or getting eaten by bugs in the shade.

At 5:40 we start heading back, and I drop her off at 6:00.  I shake her hand, thank her for coming and head back to the main theater on Lenin Square and arrive in about twenty minutes.  I’m starving but I don’t have time to eat anything.  The theater entrance is packed, and I can’t figure out why.  Is it that everyone is trying to buy tickets?  Or that they haven’t opened the doors to let ticketholders for the 6:30 show go in?  Finally I figure it out: the holdup is that they’re making everyone go through a metal detector (but there’s no x-ray machine).  It’s phenomenally stupid: if they’re going to screen for something they really should be screening for explosives, not guns and knives.  And they’re letting the women send their purses around the metal detector without any inspection: any woman could easily smuggle two or three handguns in.  And the sheer volume of people they have to screen in a twenty-minute period means they have to keep it moving, which means their attention to detail is sloppy.  I set off the metal detector for something and they asked me to go back through.  I set it off again, but by then the officer at my detector was paying attention to some other people and I just kept going.  It was like TSA in America only even stupider.

I find my seat.  The interior of the theater is beautiful.  I wish I would have brought my camera so I could show all of you.  Soon, the show starts.  I turned my phone down to vibrate so Anna can send me SMS messages without annoying my neighbors.  At around 7 she sends me an SMS asking for me to come and get her at the entrance (since I have her ticket in my pocket).  It wasn’t really the agreement: we were going to meet during the intermission.  I’m trying to decide how rude it is to move around in the theater and go get her while the performance is going.  And once I’ve got her, will they let us back in before intermission?  She sends a second SMS, so I decide to just go get her.  They let us back in.

Anna came straight from work.  She’s dressed in black slacks and a white blouse.  Her clothes fit her really well.  She’s getting more beautiful by the day.  (Or am I starting to fall for her…?)

In about ten minutes the intermission comes.  I spend most of it waiting for her to use the restroom, then we go back.  She compliments me on my clothes and especially the shirts I've worn when I have been out with her.  I order all of my dress shirts made to measure and point out some of the subtle tailoring details that I like.  (My tailor is http://www.mytailor.com/ if anyone is interested.)  

The ballet was absolutely AWESOME.  I can’t believe that just yesterday I was considering not using the tickets.  I would have missed out on a spectacular performance.  It was one of the best live performances I saw in my life.  I was on the edge of my seat for a lot of the performance.

Anna and I have some good chemistry, occasionally holding hands.  For awhile she rests her head on my shoulder.  The performance goes on until a little after 9:00.  We leave the theater and I suggest we go get some sushi, since we’re both hungry.  We go to a Japanese place she knows of that’s very close to the theater.  The food is good but the service is terrible.  (As it often is in the FSU.)  I start to open up to Anna a little more, telling her about a couple of my past relationships and what I learned from them.  I answer some of her questions but in response to others I tell her I need to know her better.  I’m trying to show a little vulnerability to get her a little more interested.  Our conversation is a little deeper.  We spend some time talking about our career goals.  She has an idea to start a clothing company and has some ideas about how she could market it.  I talk about my future plans to try to start a software company and talk about some of my product ideas.  It’s fascinating to hear her talk about what she wants to do with her life: it’s such a refreshing contrast to Olesia earlier today.

She has to take the bus home and the last run is coming up, so we get the check and leave.  I escort her down to the metro station.  She takes my hand and holds onto it the whole way, but still won’t let me kiss her.  

I ask her to meet me tomorrow.  She waffles a little bit and says she'll tell me tomorrow.  "Before noon" I reply.  She agrees.  She gives me a hug and we part.

I think she’s interested but just playing hard to get.  (Female game, if you want to call it that.)  All of the other body language signs say that she is interested.  I really like Anna.  Time will answer the question of whether we should be together.

[Gator]

Moderator - the game talk is interesting and deserving of its own thread.  Certainly it should not be here, distracting from TwoBit's fine story.

[Ade]

Moderator - the game talk is interesting and deserving of its own thread.  Certainly it should not be here, distracting from TwoBit's fine story.

Of course it should. He's defined it as a part of his methodology and as such it's open for comment and criticisms.

[Sculpto]

SJ and others.. try not to get the message and the nomenclature mixed up.  I agree the word "game" or "gaming" can be offensive.  Some of the hardcore practitioners are in fact quite offensive people. 

However, when adjusted for sociological and personal empowerment by an individual with honorable intentions the knowledge is invaluable.  I say that simply because people are people and those who understand how people tick as well as understanding their own ways of interacting are ore likely to get positive results from their interactions.

[Gtex]

Gator:

Thanks and an excellent idea... Mods?

SJ:  I believe you are a native English speaker, so I am puzzled.  You stated:

"Game playing" is for teenagers.

Have you not read this thread in its' entirety?  If you wish to make meaningful contributions, you should know what others have already said.  How could you possibly not understand his lengthy exposition on the word?  Your comment makes you seem intentionally obtuse.  His usage, execution and structure of explanation where excellent and obviously the opposite of your comment. 

This is why moving this aspect of the game topic is a good idea.  It does distract from the story without contributing to his success or anything else.  Some are so tied to their own ideas they will continue to bash everyone with their opinion until long after relevance has ceased (and it has by now).   

2012, I was not addressing you (but it did occur to me)... I still hope you do well with the new amore.

[Seeker]

Moderator - the game talk is interesting and deserving of its own thread.  Certainly it should not be here, distracting from TwoBit's fine story.

It distracts to some extent, but it is a part of the story that needs to be understood in context so I am hesitant to break it off as long as it stays civil.

I think it has been explained well from all sides.  I also think not everyone agrees.  Imagine that!   

I for one am not comfortable with the word 'game' and what it implies.  But TwoBit has his own way.  And since it is part of his story and strategy, discussing it (civilly) is just discussing the TR.

There is a TR thread option of no comments.  TwoBit chose to post here, and hear the comments.  Just keep it cool people.  Disagree, okay... explain, okay... argue, no.  Otherwise what is the point of posting a TR in a forum where comments and questions are allowed?  And it is a key part of his strategy, based on his own words.

Edit to add:Maybe someone could post a new "Game" thread... if they wish to battle it out.

[Lily]

I have experience similar to this.

Dears, I see what you mean here. Your point is that when you are with your girlfriends, you receive more attention from other women, then you do when you are alone. Therefore, it seems to you that women may be more interested in you when you are taken than when you are available. Did I get you correctly?

First of all, I allow myself to doubt that what you noticed from other women around may indeed be signs of attention to you. My observation is that men often take for attention, especially with sexual undertones, in reality was not even close to that. For example, in a two weeks business seminar I got into a group of people where one guy became an apparent leader in a few days. He was bold, active and straightforward. As soon as I noticed that, I tried to make a sort of counterweight for him, attacking him as well, answering his rants right on the spot, and so on. I had no interest in him as in a man, though. However, in a week I learned that one of my colleagues approached that guy and told him that, in his opinion, Lily seems to be into him To say that I was surprised that my actions were interpreted like that were to say nothing

Are you getting my drift? Men often take for attention, and even for sexual innuendos, various things where the woman was not even close to something like that. On the other hand, men may believe that whet they observed on a woman, was a honest sign of attention. The reason may be because for men, sex plays a more significant role than it does for women. Therefore they tend to see sex everywhere.

Further on, unlike employment or investments, mating is not a reasonable choice. This is a big distinction between the examples that you touched upon here. We all know that if we reasonable persuade the employer, or buyer, that by making this choice, he or she gets a problem resolved, then they are likely to make a purchase. This can be calculated relatively easy, because this is a reasonable choice that humans make. Attraction is NOT a reasonable choice. It is an instinctive, subconscious choice that humans make. Hope you know what I mean.

Women have their own instincts, and they don't need to see someone else's choice in mates, they don't need someone's approval or someone's example. Nevertheless, and unfortunately, when we are in love with someone, we discover that we are not alone after this guy. It is rather a painful discover, believe me This guy has something that makes women fall after him, fall independently, without looking at each other.

Please note, that so far I was talking only about sincere attraction. Here I don't consider any reasonable choices like wanting to marry an American because of his passport, or because of money, or because the parents want their daughter to be married, or because your most hated neighbor girl is in love with a fine gentlemen and you want to deprive her of this just to make her unhappy. These things also happen, but they are not the subject of my posting.

Last but not least, about your being attractive to others when you have a girlfriend. I suppose that when you are in love, you look different. You look happy, confident, you shine and project love and happiness around you. That can be attractive, though. You are yourself but you are a better self, let me put it that way. In this case, you indeed may be noticed by women more often than usually

[Gator]

Upon reading Seeker's non-decision, I will present my view about game as used here.

Is romancing analogous with selling?  Those of you who have succeeded in business sales know the steps:

1.   Prospecting.
2.   Meeting and greeting.
3.   Understanding your buyer (needs, how they make decisions, criteria they use, …).
4.   Presenting your product (packaging it as a “concept” rather than “brand”).
5.   Closing.
6.   Filling the need.


Some “game” goes in all steps, yet the “game” discussed in this thread by those who claim to have “game” is focused on Step 2:  stirring interest after meeting a prospective buyer.  

The same as in selling, Steps 3, 4 and 5 are far more important than Step 2.  Step 3 requires more than communication skills, it takes empathy as well as separation.

Some "game" goes in Step 4 by presenting yourself as a unique 'concept' rather than one of many 'brands.'  Step 4 is interesting because you are selling yourself.  You can not turn the sell over to the Engineering Department; you must deliver yourself and meet all of her expectations.    

What about the part where after a successful closure, a good salesman will awaken next morning and look for another buyer?      

[BillyB]

Dears, I see what you mean here. Your point is that when you are with your girlfriends, you receive more attention from other women, then you do when you are alone. Therefore, it seems to you that women may be more interested in you when you are taken than when you are available. Did I get you correctly?

First of all, I allow myself to doubt that what you noticed from other women around may indeed be signs of attention to you.

Last but not least, about your being attractive to others when you have a girlfriend. I suppose that when you are in love, you look different. You look happy, confident, you shine and project love and happiness around you. That can be attractive, though. You are yourself but you are a better self, let me put it that way. In this case, you indeed may be noticed by women more often than usually

I don't get more attention from other females when I'm on a date. My female date isn't what attract other females, it's who I am, how I look, and how I act that does. If a guy is a man in demand, it's his qualities that create the demand and get the attention of women.

I agree with you about that when a guy has a woman who likes him, he portrays a better image of himself and that makes him more attractive. Since 2012isFiction has been happily dating a woman and his woman is happy with him, I think we can all agree he has a happier online attitude and his confidence has improved. Don't get too happy 2012, a lot of us still disagree with you on many issues.

[Gator]

Lily,

Interesting story.  Yes, men are more oblivious than women.

Last but not least, about your being attractive to others when you have a girlfriend. I suppose that when you are in love, you look different. You look happy, confident, you shine and project love and happiness around you. That can be attractive, though. You are yourself but you are a better self, let me put it that way. In this case, you indeed may be noticed by women more often than usually

Some of what a man may perceive as attention from other women directed at him is really women checking out another woman, especially if his woman is beautiful, dressed fashionably, and mysterious.  If his woman is this way, why would he notice other women?

[Lily]

  If a man has a high value woman at his side, then other women will be attracted to him immediately.  

My comment to this would be that if a man has a high value woman at his side, first, his self-respect skyrocket immediately and, at the same time, other men notice this and start to believe that this guy may not be as simple as they thought he is initially. A high value woman therefore increases the man's own value and weight in the society almost to his maximum possible level.

That's why finding a quality woman used to be that important, at all times.

 

Lily,

Interesting story.  Yes, men are more oblivious than women.

Some of what a man may perceive as attention from other women directed at him is really women checking out another woman, especially if his woman is beautiful, dressed fashionably, and mysterious.  If his woman is this way, why would he notice other women?

Agree with you Gator that a woman would check another woman first, in order to draw instant comparison to herself Unless, of course, it is the man who got her attention.

About why would the husband of a beautiful wife check out other women if he has this beauty on his side - my take would be that many women know the answer why Because he is a man, therefore his instincts make him want to check out other women irrespectively from the fact that he already has one of very high quality. A number of women believe that men may want many women, therefore her competitive edge over that beauty might well be the simple fact that she is different from his wife.

Women want many things from just one man. Men want one thing but from different women. Here is why

[BillyB]

Upon reading Seeker's non-decision, I will present my view about game as used here.

Is romancing analogous with selling?  Those of you who have succeeded in business sales know the steps:

1.   Prospecting.
2.   Meeting and greeting.
3.   Understanding your buyer (needs, how they make decisions, criteria they use, …).
4.   Presenting your product (packaging it as a “concept” rather than “brand”).
5.   Closing.
6.   Filling the need.


Some “game” goes in all steps, yet the “game” discussed in this thread by those who claim to have “game” is focused on Step 2:  stirring interest after meeting a prospective buyer.  

The same as in selling, Steps 3, 4 and 5 are far more important than Step 2.  Step 3 requires more than communication skills, it takes empathy as well as separation.

Some "game" goes in Step 4 by presenting yourself as a unique 'concept' rather than one of many 'brands.'  Step 4 is interesting because you are selling yourself.  You can not turn the sell over to the Engineering Department; you must deliver yourself and meet all of her expectations.    

What about the part where after a successful closure, a good salesman will awaken next morning and look for another buyer?      

Yes, many focused on step #2 and you bring up good points that having "game" goes beyond that.

Some guys are good at getting female attention online with an intro letter. Some guys are good a getting first dates after a few letters. Some guys are good at getting more than just first dates with women. Even when there is not relationship possiblity with a woman, some guys have enough good qualities that a woman would want to maintain a friendship with them.

#5 Closing  would be marriage. A man may be fun to date but can he get a woman, any woman to marry him?

#6 Filling the need would mean a man must have the ability to fulfill a woman's needs throughout marriage and she will come back for more since she's happy instead of ending the marriage one day.

[tim 360]

Women want many things from just one man. Men want one thing but from different women. Here is why

Perfect Lily.  Yet,  I do think that some women will view some men in a better light if he is with a lovely lady.  I think it enhances his presented image to other women and is not so much about needing another womans approval.  I think the presence of the lady with him elevates the mans status to some.  

[SMS60]

I agree with VWRW's post. It is one thing to use "game" to get a one night stand. The challenge is the morning after, or the eventual transition to a long-term relationship. Sure, game may be good to get a first and second date, but how do you keep it going after that?

Pretty simple Misha, you keep gaming her. Many relationships fail because the man gets too comfortable and or lazy in the relationship. They quit gaming or dating their spouse.

Reading your posts I think you are still gaming your wife but you dont recongnize it in those words. Its why you have a good relationship.


I laugh my butt off the way the word "gaming" causes some men to curl up in a ball.


[quote
author=TwoBitBandit link=topic=11863.msg233758#msg233758 date=1277923711]
  

I ask her to meet me tomorrow.  She waffles a little bit and says she'll tell me tomorrow.  "Before noon" I reply.  She agrees.  She gives me a hug and we part.

I think she’s interested but just playing hard to get.  (Female game, if you want to call it that.)  All of the other body language signs say that she is interested.  I really like Anna.  Time will answer the question of whether we should be together.

[/quote]

Hey bud, you are about to lose control of the frame unless you step it up. You are approaching a critical point. You know the saying of...... "who ever needs the other the least has the power"......... You are falling for her and must decide weather to continue to meet other women or give Anna the rest of the week. You know you are taking a chance of losing her interest if she senses you are still meeting other women after opening up to you? If you can keep her interest level high you might be able to continue to meet other women and still see her. How are you going to do this?

She felt a connection by revealing some of her personal thoughts. You could easily deflate her if your not careful. Some women dont mind if you date other women in the early stages but if they feel something after a couple of dates and you slap them in the face by going out on a date with someone else they will eject in a hurry. Don't lead her on.

One other thing. Why are you worried about someone labeling you a sex tourist? Hell, I dont see anything close to approaching sex in your meetings Poor guy.