Novosibirsk Doesn't Believe in Tears: TwoBit's Sixteen Days In Novosibirsk

[TwoBitBandit]

Day 16: Sunday, July 11

The plan for today is to meet Katerina at 2:00 and Yulia at 5:00.  They’re both new girls.  Katerina I don’t know that much about and haven’t written her much, but I’ve been writing to Yulia for two or three weeks before I got on the plane. 

Yulia and I had a little bit of a “diplomatic tiff” after I didn’t answer her phone call a few days ago, but the reason I didn’t answer it is because I was on a date with Evgenia at the time.  I didn’t return the call because I didn’t recognize the number and didn’t figure out it was Yulia until I went through all my notes and matched up the number.  When I got in touch with Yulia the next day she was offended that I didn’t call her back until the next day since she waited up for me to return the call.  I don’t know where she got that expectation, but some diplomacy on my part settled it and we agreed to meet today.

I decide to go to the art museum on Krasnaya street as soon as it opens at 1:00, check it out for 45 minutes (it will be a fast tour), then return to Lenin Square at 2:00 to meet Katerina.  As I’m waking there at about 12:45, Katerina sends me an SMS saying she got off work early and can meet me with one.  So, the art museum will have to wait for the next trip.

We meet at 1:00.  She’s about 5’4” and has reddish-blonde hair and green eyes.  She has kind of a cute look that’s between Irish and Slavic: her facial features are Slavic but she has green eyes and a few freckles.  She’s a little bit heavier than a lot of the Russian girls but she carries it well.  We decide to go down to the river embankment and walk around.  The weather is cooler than the past few days, and this morning it rained like crazy.

We go there on the metro and start walking around.  She’s really pleasant and easy to talk to, and expresses a lot of interest in the topics I bring up.  At one point we stop at a café and get some sashlik.  As I spend more time with her I get more and more attracted to her: she’s just pleasant to be around.  I try not to lead her on because I’ve simply realized that she’s not the girl for me.  We talk about all kinds of stuff: travel, life in Russia, languages, English grammar, Russian cooking, etc.

At around 4:00 we start heading back to Lenin Square.  When we get there we hug.  I really want to be more into Katerina since she’s just so easy to be with… but I’m just not.

I set back off on the Metro to go north until the end of the line to meet Yulia at the zoo.  I wander around nearby until I find a taxi and pay him 200 roubles to take me to the station.  I managed to leave my “magic umbrella” in the taxi when I leave… I hope that its new owner enjoys it.  Yulia and I find each other.  She’s about 5’6” but she’s like 5’9” in her high heels.  She’s in good shape, has frizzy blond shoulder-length hair and blue eyes.  She’s wearing designer jeans and a white top.  I’m attracted to her.  I think she’s not quite as attractive as Galina and Anna but she’s pretty cute.  We head into the zoo.  It turns out that Yulia comes to the zoo a few times a year and follows what’s going on: she knows when what animals were born and where they all came from.  It’s actually pretty interesting.  I like her personality: she’s a live one.  She talks a lot and talks fast, but I’m amazed at how I understand almost all of it.  The Novosibirsk zoo layout is unstructured and there’s roads crossing each other everywhere, but Yulia knows it really well and guides me through like an expert.  I like Yulia’s personality: she expresses herself well and is intelligent, confident and articulate.  I think I’m a little more attracted to her than she is to me.  We have some light touching back and forth but when I tried to take hold of her hand she avoided it.

After the zoo she took me on a drive in her car through a large park on the outskirts of town complete with volleyball nets, rollerblade trails, trails, soccer fields, etc.  She takes me to some sort of an outdoor café for dinner.  The weather is pleasant and due to the rain and mild cold there are very few mosquitoes.  I ordered some уха (fish soup) and шашлык  (meat grilled on a metal stick).  It was quite tasty.  Yulia and I have a great conversation: she’s clearly very smart.  She talks about her work for awhile and I talk about mine.  She’s heard of my employer and actually knows a little bit about it.  She also has more clarity about what she wants out of life than the other girls.  The conversation is a little more strained than before because there’s live music at the restaurant and it’s a little harder to hear her.

At around 10:00 she brings me home.  I kiss her on the cheek (she wouldn’t have taken the full kiss) and she smiles.  I see her off.

Smart girls are always like this: they always are slow to warm up while they evaluate you carefully.  If I had a few more days in town I’d see Yulia again but I’m leaving in the morning.  I think she’s attracted and she’d go out with me again if I was staying but there’s just no more time.

AND THAT’S ALL SHE WROTE FOLKS!

I had fun on this trip, improved my Russian and met some cool girls.  I don’t know about Yulia after just one date, but I can still write her.  Evegenia, Anna and Galina are still possible candidates for a follow-up visit-one trip.

I’ll probably write a follow-up soon after I get back.  I think I learned a few lessons here and I’ll try to express what I think I did right and wrong.
 
As an aside, I’m at Moscow DME as I write this.  Can you believe that there’s free wifi here?  I made it past the airport police when they asked for my registration by pretending not to speak Russian and saying “it’s on the computer, it was done electronically” and they guy waved me past after some frustration.  Passport control in Moscow accepted the Moscow registration and didn’t ask me about being in Novosibirsk.  So, it all worked out in the end.

I was worried about (a) being fined at the airport in Novosibirsk and (b) passport control asking why I didn’t register in Novosibirsk since I was there, but neither happened.

[Jooky]

I was worried about (a) being fined at the airport in Novosibirsk and (b) passport control asking why I didn’t register in Novosibirsk since I was there, but neither happened.

I'm glad to hear it! Have a safe flight home!

[I/O]

Can you believe that there’s free wifi here?

I can actually. A year ago I was walking near the bottom of red square, watching the changing of the guards, chatting via Skype on my Iphone using McDonald's free wifi to a good friend back home in Aus. Nikita would have been banging more than his shoe at the sight (and knowledge) of that.

[SMS60]

Day 16: Sunday, July 11  She also has more clarity about what she wants out of life than the other girls. 

Rejoice, At least someone in the story does



TBB, Kudos on the TR and taking the heat. Good job.

[Misha]

I didn’t return the call because...

TwoBit, you will have to remember to reply to SMS messages and return all calls the same day, no excuses 

AND THAT’S ALL SHE WROTE FOLKS!

Have a great flight back!

[Gtex]

I feel free to speak for many members here who truly enjoyed your report.  More, I thank you for your persistence.

You have had to suffer fools and the comments of the "well intentioned" that actually were not...

Certainly, there are lessons learned and approaches now evolving.  Look forward to your insights on return!

[OlgaH]

Elena is quite intelligent and we have a good conversation, but she’s not that much into me.  She doesn’t hold eye contact with me very long, never touches me and doesn’t do any of the traditional “I’m interested” things (playing with her hair or jewelry, smiling at me, letting our shoulders touch as we walk side by side, etc.)
She just isn’t into me that much.  When the show is over, I take her hand to lead her out of the huge crowd, but I can tell by her response that she doesn’t want me to hold it so I let go right away.  At the corner where we need to go in different directions, we say goodbye.
I’m into Elena and I’d like to see her again, but I don’t think it’s going to go anywhere.  I suspect that she might accept a second date… but the problem is that she has control of the frame.

I would not advise any man to make such conclusions.  Some women are enough intelligent to play the “flirting games” during the first date. They just will sit and listen what you have to say  trying to understand what you are really up to.  It is not a secret that the girls know that some foreigners come just to “fool” around. More over there are plenty of local men who do the same things … and they will just lie how busy they were with work or whatever…

 I tell her something like, “I was talking to my friend, and I told him I met this girl named Elena.  She seemed really intelligent, but she was really standoffish.  That’s the problem with smart girls: they overanalyze everything, and by the time they are ready to make a decision the window of opportunity has closed.“  This gets her interest.
 I’ve clearly increased her interest level: she’s leaning forward, constantly playing with her necklace and twirled her finger in her hair a few times.

Just don’t be so sure that you increased her interest level with your words about “closed window” that honestly sound childish.  She could take the fact that you were talking to your friend about her as a sign of your serious interest in her and therefore she wanted to invite her friends to meet you.  BTW You also should know that the women sometimes “play with their necklace” or  “twirled their finger in their hair” not because they are flirting.

In the evening I could meet with Evgenia or Elena if I can sell them, or I can try to pull in some new girls.  There’s plenty of prospects I think.

And women can have exactly the same intuition about a man.

In the beginning Elena was intriguing, and her standoffishness was like a puzzle to be solved.  Now I’ve just simply lost interest, even after having invested a lot of time with her.  I just feel like we don’t connect when we talk, and she doesn’t understand me and I don’t understand her.  I’m doubting now that I’ll do another date with her. I dropped Elena just because she was too introverted and there just wasn't enough of a draw.

Or it could be because the process is more important for you than the result…
 It takes much more time to understand each other than three or four dates

Despite all your reading, TwoBit, I submit that you don't really understand women.  All the women on this thread have told you so, in one way or another, but you've rejected their comments.

Women have differing views on what is attractive.  I think most women want a man who projects confidence, but beyond that, everything is subjective.  Ultimately, a woman is going to live with the real you, not what you project, or some evolutionary theory.

Boethius, I tend to agree with you.

TwoBitBandit, I wish you all the best and good luck

[Misha]

Her frame of mind might be that she wants a man wrapped around her finger.

Or, she simply does not want a player. He rudely did not answer her SMS and turned her down for a date, and of course she knew that he was doing this to date another woman or many women. Why would she be in any "frame" to consider TBB a serious contender? 

The one thing, IMHO, that a Western man can offer to a RW that she cannot find at home is the potential to be with a man who is a good marriage prospect and won't be playing games with her. Dating in Russia following the PUA handbook will convince her otherwise. If she really wants to date a "player" who will treat her rudely and will be indifferent to her while chasing a multitude of other women, she pretty much has her pick of dozens of Russian men who will likely be younger and/or more attractive. Why would she want more of the same from a Westerner?

[kievstar]

TBB - Galina is probably seeing other men and makes since she is not in a committed relationship.  June, July, and August are months where foreign men visit in high numbers.  So like you who is juggling different dates Galina is well.  She is going to Greece with a foreign man or local man.  You mentioned of all the girls Anna and Galina were very attractive.  Attractive girls get a lot of attention.  

Galina may work out in the future.  My advise send her a nice note wishing her well on her trip to Greece and that you would love to hear about it upon her return.

I think your trip was a success.  You learned a lot and you have one girl in Galina who may work out. If she has a bad experience in Greece she is back on the market (man being a sex tourist).  

From your writing I can tell height and looks are your most important feature.  You should never see women shorter than Galina in the future.  Your wasting your time if you do.  You have narrowed down the pool of women and now can look for other important qualities.  

I made the mistake on height as well.  I used to see girls under 5 foot 9 all the time and realised no matter there personality they would be eliminated.

[GQBlues]

Basic instinct is an undeniable force and an irresistable inspiration. You lay the 'WOW' factor in a woman, she will break prior engagements, forget errands, shun her dog, her family, her friends, etc..just to spend time with you again - and again, and again. She will sit by her phone hoping for your call. Some women will even easily betray their husband/marriage, boyfriends/fiancee, friends and sisters, etc...just to be with you. That's just life..

The world will appear to be in the shade of grey outside of your presence. When you're around her, everything falls silent and moves in slow motion. You'll see the glint in her eyes when she start to feel numbed. Every woman will show that. She will think of no one else but YOU. So leave the speculation to everyone else.

That's been my experience here, in FSU, and anywhere else I've been in 5 continents.

Tuck this as an experience. A very good one and don't make anything more of it than what it has been. The challenge does not reside in Russia or anywhere else. The challenge is when you bring her 'home' and she's surrounded by those far more 'schooled' than you and she still keeps that 'frame' only for you...

Good luck!

[OlgaH]

Basic instinct is an undeniable force and an irresistable inspiration. You lay the 'WOW' factor in a woman, she will break prior engagements, forget errands, shun her dog, her family, her friends, etc..just to spend time with you again - and again, and again. She will sit by her phone hoping for your call. Some women will even easily betray their husband/marriage, boyfriends/fiancee, friends and sisters, etc...just to be with you. That's just life..
... You'll see the glint in her eyes when she start to feel numbed. Every woman will show that. She will think of no one else but YOU. So leave the speculation to everyone else.

Exactly! Right after several hours of correspondence and phone calls and two-three dates! What else you can expect from women  

[Misha]

Basic instinct is an undeniable force and an irresistable inspiration. You lay the 'WOW' factor in a woman, she will break prior engagements, forget errands, shun her dog, her family, her friends, etc..just to spend time with you again - and again, and again. She will sit by her phone hoping for your call. Some women will even easily betray their husband/marriage, boyfriends/fiancee, friends and sisters, etc...just to be with you. That's just life..

Yes, some women are like that. However, other women will hit hard on the brakes if they think that a man is simply not worth their efforts. Some women are perfectly capable of controlling themselves emotionally and brush off a man even if he is "irresistible" if they think it through and conclude he is a waste of time.

[GQBlues]

Yes, some women are like that.

 

ALL, if not, at the least the very vast majority of 'most', is exactly like that, Misha.

[Misha]

Not in my experience. Many women are more than capable of thinking with their heads. Then again I have no pretensions of being a player

[OlgaH]

TBB - Galina is probably seeing other men and makes since she is not in a committed relationship.  June, July, and August are months where foreign men visit in high numbers.  So like you who is juggling different dates Galina is well.  

Kievstar, no need to judge Galina by TBB's example.

She is going to Greece with a foreign man or local man.

 
BTW Have you ever thought that Galina as many Russians now can have quite enough her own financial means to go to Greece.  

And for the sake of what she should drop her departure preparation? for a someone she has never met and had just a short correspondence?  

[OlgaH]

Not in my experience. Many women are more than capable of thinking with their heads.

Misha there are probably much more women who are capable of thinking with their heads than men     

[GQBlues]

3 for 3...

Not in my experience.

I can see that, so I agree.

Many women are more than capable of thinking with their heads.

Which explains above, so I agree.

Then again I have no pretensions of being a player

I have no doubt you aren't, so yes, completely agree there too!

So you see, we do agree in some areas, eh?  

[Lily]

Misha there are probably much more women who are capable of thinking with their heads than men     

Because, unlike men, we women only have one big head

[Misha]

3 for 3...
I can see that, so I agree.
Which explains above, so I agree.
I have no doubt you aren't, so yes, completely agree there too!

So you see, we do agree in some areas, eh?  

I could make a few statements that you would disagree with, but I shall bite my tongue  :evil:

[GQBlues]

I could make a few statements that you would disagree with, but I shall bite my tongue  :evil:

So can I, but why break the streak with our new found common ground?

Bottom line is, when it comes to mainstream Russian social and gender relations, what is the numero uno complaints Russian women have about Russian men (ironic as it is) ?

Bingo! Infidelities. Unless you also believe most if not all RMs are gay then one can easily conclude there's just as many Russian women playin'-n-cheatin' as there are Russian men, yes?

...and guess who is generally responsible in raising these men? Yep, it sure ain't Mr. Deadbeat Sergei.

There's no such thing as a partly-poisoned well.

[Gator]

TwoBit,

As I did near the beginning of your trip, I applaud your report.

Chivo, Misha, OlgaH et al are making some interesting comments regarding how your "frame and plan" may conflict in some key ways with RW mentality.  Remember that young Russian women have been trained by Russian men within the Russian culture, not by American men in Silicon Valley. 

GQBlues makes good comments that women still are women.  However, I never got the impression that you wanted to lay the "WOW" factor on a woman during this trip based on what happened in your prior trip.  Perhaps a couple RW might have wanted to bring you into their world and keep you there if you had advanced the pace and opened your Gamebook 201.  Who knows?!

As you state, you have the names of four good prospects.  I recommend that you not waste time and get on the phone with each ASAP.  The cream will float to the top.  I always have leaned towards women with whom conversations are easy and interesting, even if their legs were shorter or their breasts smaller.

[JohnDearGreen]

She might decide that he is now workable for her 

Not sure what you are saying.  Explain further.

3 or 4 might decide he is workable.   What if he forced a quick commitment to one near the end of his trip like some suggested, and said goodbye to the others....then when he gets home she changes her mind and says she is not interested.   He is left with almost nothing.

But the important thing is would she still be interested in a few weeks or months when he plans his next trip?  Things can change.  I had one AFA gal turn down my request to meet on the last day of my 1st VM trip.  I asked her again before my 2nd trip 6 months later.  She turned me down again.  Almost 2 years later I made yet another VM trip to Kyiv and asked her again.   She accepted.  Keep trying.

[Misha]

Bingo! Infidelities. Unless you also believe most if not all RMs are gay then one can easily conclude there's just as many Russian women playin'-n-cheatin' as there are Russian men, yes?

It would be a facile conclusion. You should know that women are perfectly capable of having sex with more than one man. Thus, one unmarried or divorced woman could sleep with a number of married men. It is therefore possible for married men to sleep around more than women without sleeping with other men 

...and guess who is generally responsible in raising these men? Yep, it sure ain't Mr. Deadbeat Sergei.

There's no such thing as a partly-poisoned well.

No, but there are double-standards in any society, and this is not limited solely to Russia. Men can be encouraged to philander, while women doing the same can be reproached. It is thus possible for women to raise boys and girls with different expectations for each.

[Misha]

Not sure what you are saying.  Explain further.

I had one AFA gal turn down my request to meet on the last day of my 1st VM trip. 

The thing to keep in mind is that TBB was not meeting AFA gals, simply regular Russian women on Russian dating sites who clearly were not desperate. Given this fact, they are much more likely IMHO to tell a man such a TBB to take a hike.

[GQBlues]

It would be a facile conclusion. You should know that women are perfectly capable of having sex with more than one man.

Glad we again agree. Thus being an accesoory or participant to a sin makes that person just as guilty as the perpetrator. For every 'Adam' there will always be an 'Eve' - vis-a-vis. It is easily a foregone conclusion. I'm glad we agree.

As for TBB's TR, I am stating something he already admitted he knew and experienced in his first post on this thread about what exactly he didn't want to do, or need to recognized, based in his last/recent trip/experience...

My biggest mistake is to chase the girl I can keep the interest of but not quite catch.  A foreign guy in good shape with money and confidence can get some attention from hot girls just by being different.  Having a foreign guy come and chase them can be entertaining for girls, and it’s a refreshing break from their normal lives.  So, they’ll lead you on a little even if they don’t have a serious interest.  On this trip I need to be better at detecting this situation and either (a) cutting them loose or (b) kicking up my game a notch.

I offered him a 'c' option upthread. That is, forget it and move to the next one, or better yet meet women on a whim since he can apparently easily navigate the streets of Novo much better than the average John Doe who solely relies on virtual dating scene and action. To me, that's a much better option than spending wads of gift monies and time in hopes he treks the fine line and not become a PITA or an AC.

Unless the prevailing wisdom being spent here is doing exactly that and lavishing these women with gifts and try convincing them how much he's into each one, or any of them, despite the signals they're giving him. If so, then, I will admit such act is something alien to me.