Meeting Someone There

[Handycam72]

The Crimea is considered expensive and dirty destination compared to Turkey.

Really. Curious to know, who are the ones that consider Crimea in such a way?

[Handycam72]

It's all about economy.

I don't know much about the Ukraine. A Ukrainian girl told me that the average salary in Odessa was $200, in Nikolaev - $100.

Certainly, Russia is much richer. Streets are full of cars, new buildings are everywhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia
Nobody wants to relocate to the USA with its declining economy.

Yes I got to admit, the streets were completely empty of cars in Ukraine. All those BMWs, Mercs, Porsches, Chevy, Kia, Ford, etc must of all been imagined. As for buildings well, they were all old falling down 

[Vincenzo]

Yes I got to admit, the streets were completely empty of cars in Ukraine. All those BMWs, Mercs, Porsches, Chevy, Kia, Ford, etc must of all been imagined. As for buildings well, they were all old falling down 

Ukrainian Nikolaev. There are no big businesses. The shipyard builds nothing.
There are very few cars.

Russian Siberia. A small poor village. There is a luxury Japanese car near each wooden house.

[Handycam72]

I don't know much about the Ukraine. A Ukrainian girl told me that the average salary in Odessa was $200, in Nikolaev - $100.

Certainly, Russia is much richer. Streets are full of cars, new buildings are everywhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia

So Vincenzo are you going to say who Considers Crimea a "expensive and dirty destination compared to Turkey."?

Because judging by the number of Russians and Ukrainians that go there every year it can't be that bad a place. Oh yes, and using your scientific evaluation, they all have nice expensive cars, so must have money too   

Have you visited Siberia, last time I looked its quite a big place. Those wooden houses wouldn't be the Dacha that the city folk go to for small breaks?
 

[Handycam72]

Oh and its Ukraine, not The Ukraine 

[brian131]

You can check the K1 fiancee visa statistics per country: http://travel.state.gov/visa/statistics/nivstats/nivstats_4582.html
Russia: 2004 - 1,687; 2010 - 778 issued visas
Ukraine: 2004 - 1,205; 2010 - 827.
The numbers are certainly tiny. Probably, more Mexican women cross the border illegally each day.

Your fiancee may come to the USA, then she won't be able to find a comparable job and she'll say, "Good bye, America!"

I doubt it has much to do with economics.  Eastern and Western Europe has life that revolves around the city centers that we don't have much of the United States.  I would think an RW could have a very familiar lifestyle in Germany or France.  She would also be much, much closer to home.  Typical American arrogance says they all want to move here, but I see "basic German" in profiles on EM all of the time.  If I were an RW, I'd much rather go to Germany.

[chivo]

It's all about economy.

I don't know much about the Ukraine. A Ukrainian girl told me that the average salary in Odessa was $200, in Nikolaev - $100.

Certainly, Russia is much richer. Streets are full of cars, new buildings are everywhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia
Nobody wants to relocate to the USA with its declining economy.

Not sure how much you know much about Russia either. While the middle class grew exponentially until 2006, it dropped considerably in 2008-09 at the height of the economic crises. Salaries were cut on average by 20%. This was in Moscow, and was much worse in the provinces where whole cities dependant of one industry ceased to exist.  While better than Ukraine hardly anything to brag about.
 
And while new construction has begun to pick up over the last year or so, new buildings aren't everywhere by any stretch of the imagination. Things are improving but it will, like most things in an emerging economy, take time to really notice the improvements. Then there is the old school Russian mentality that will take a generation or two to change.
 
As declining an economy the US is, many ambitious young people in Russia still believe America offers more opportunity in the long run (although I'm not so sure I agree). Nevertheless, a woman in love goes with her man wherever he may live.
 

Typical American arrogance says they all want to move here, but I see "basic German" in profiles on EM all of the time. If I were an RW, I'd much rather go to Germany.

Maybe, but...before English became the international language German was taught much more commonly as a second language than English in schools throughout Russia. This is especially true for 30+ yr old RW compared to the 25 and under crowd whom were raised studying English.
 
Nowadays a RW is just as likely to learn Spanish as German with English by far the most prevalent. Nothing really to do with relocation, everything to do with their careers.

[wicheese]

Your fiancee may come to the USA, then she won't be able to find a comparable job and she'll say, "Good bye, America!"

Yes, if she was someone I had just met or someone who did not know what to expect when she moves here, then you would be correct.  But, she's spent better than 4 months in the USA over the last 2 years and we have talked extensively about the doom & gloom that exists and how it might impact her potential career so she knows what she's getting into.
 
Also, I have to agree with a couple of things that chivo wrote. 
 

As declining an economy the US is, many ambitious young people in Russia still believe America offers more opportunity in the long run...

 
Based on my conversations with Natasha and her friends, all well educated and well established in the middle class of Moscow (which is much different than the provincial cities), you would be surprised at the number of people who still view America as a better option despite our problems with the common theme being the fact that Russia will always be held back because of corruption.
 

Nevertheless, a woman in love goes with her man wherever he may live.

This statement should never be underestimated when looking at a RW, because I was told very early in my search that "A Russian women will follow her man to the north pole if she loves him".  In other words, if she's making excuses or unreasonable demands, then you really need to wonder how much does she love you.

[Jumper]

Ukrainian Nikolaev. There are no big businesses. The shipyard builds nothing.
There are very few cars.

Russian Siberia. A small poor village. There is a luxury Japanese car near each wooden house.

There are very few cars in  Nikolaev? really?
 
somehow less than an average  siberian village?
even per capita?
 
 
Really Vincenzo,
stating such factiods off some *impression* you have is silly and inaccurate.
 
Nikolaev's industry may be struggling, like many places are,
but it's still a city of roughly a 800,000+ , if including its suburbs..
 and there is certainly no lack of cars? 
My fiancee's friends drive the following,
 infinty,nissan,toyota,  ford, and yes even a chevy.A very typical selection of cars.Yes two of them do not drive,live near the city center ,or thier work ,and take public transport. This is not unusual in any provincial FSU city,but the majority of her friends own relatively new , or brand new, cars.
IMHO, They represent a pretty normal cross section of the cities population.
 Also like most FSU cities, there are both areas of  nice large housing tracts, western standard for sure, and also the older soviet style blocks of flats/apts.
 
 
 I was speaking from direct experience in  Nikolaev,
(and of resorts popular with RW/UW)
not from Google,where you seem to form idea's of exactly how things *are* from a few carefully selected facts the web provides.
 
So admittedly you don't know much about Ukraine,
but are going to tell us the relative intetest level of women to foriegn men,, and the  ratio of 35 yo to 20 yo UW walking in a park there
 I would say as far as the park, that would depend highly on what time and day you choose to walk in that park ,and which park, and if it was the *only* means you used to meet someone .
 
I'm not saying its some great method for a man to meet a UW.
(or even a local woman)
 
but it's rather silly in the context of comparing a mans overall chances of meeting a RW/UW at some foriegn resort location.
That was my point.
 
If you think a mans odds are better in turkey ,cyprus or egypt (all popular touriost locations for RW/UW)
because google has told you so. that's ok.
 
and I have no doubt a man  could meet someone at a resort..
as a lot of single RW do travel together on such excusions.
 
However,  I'll stick with the man's  odds being better if he is actually in her home country,  in almost any situation..
like a decent agency, a local newspaper ad, mamba,vkontake, the bus stop,the park.
All of which may be out dated idea's but still likely better odds overall.
If he is IN the city, and placing a personal add (or using EM or similar agencies per your example)
his level of interested women would likely far out strip his time to meet them.
 
I know many UW there would be interested to meet a decent foriegn man, and despite all the rhetoric i've read,
it's very little difference really from 10 years before in a provincial city.
Particularly in the 35 yo age range you speak of,
They do have the impression (whether real or perceived) that there are no serious minded local men available,and no shortage of single UW 25 to 45.
Now the younger 20yo crowd maybe not as prone to run off to marry as in the past.. ? as the whole ideal that you are an old maid at 24 are changing
 that is as much a cultural/ social change in climate, as it is economic, but certianly many things effect this.
 
I feel the  biggest hurdle a decent man  would face in that city, would be getting past the sex tourist image.
 The cities  known for a lot of scam agencies, but the women  there here equally about men scamming, or nothing but stories of men coming there to merely *play*.
 Odessa isn't far,  and Odessa has long been a play ground for european businessmen.
 
 If a decent man there(regardless nationality)  is known as being serious, he would have no problem at all getting dates in the age range you mention, that simple.
 
I am not receommending men planning a trip to the FSU  around  hanging out in a park or cafe!!
 
I'm also not recommending they plan thier trip around  hanging out at a turkish resort hoping to meet their future wife.
 
They should do their own due diligence in finding interested people to meet, through various means.
 
I do feel  Jack has one good method , and offers several others, his agency is very  flexible service provider for someone interested in going to the FSU.
 
 

[Jumper]

The numbers are certainly tiny. Probably, more Mexican women cross the border illegally each day.

 
 
Sure! and this would be somehow  shocking with a common shared border?
a history of ecomomic dispararity, and immigration from south american ciountries through mexico as well as mexican immigrants?
no country is going to actually match those immigration numbers no matter how ecomomically depressed they are?
Haiti ring a bell?
 
A few facts do not tell a complete story.
 
 
 
I do feel Ukraine is more ecomoically depressed than Russia and there is still a stronger MOB presense likely for this reason (and others)
 
 
Overall percentage wise it seems an incredible small number regardless.

[Vincenzo]

Oh and its Ukraine, not The Ukraine 

http://learnenglishtoday.blogspot.com/2007/05/ukraine-definite-article-in-front-of.html

(The) Ukraine

The definite article in front of ' Ukraine " is there from the time before Ukraine was an independent state. It was a region of the Russian Empire.  Furthermore, the work "ukrajina" means edge/border/borderlands - i.e., the borderlands of Russia .  So, being a region, it took the definite article - something like "the borderlands" - like when we say "the South" meaning the south of England or the south of the USA . 

So it's really up to you if you want to use the article or not.  Using it doesn't mean that you view Ukraine as a region or as inferior -- it is just a habit of the English language, and probably won't change soon among native speakers who have always heard it with the article.

[Vincenzo]

Ok, I've found a video about the roads in Nikolaev.
[youtube]s15Gdk2eoAM[/youtube]
Most cars are old Ladas, there are plenty of marshrutkas, but there are hardly any cars parked near houses... Everybody walks.
I've seen it myself, I don't need to google it.

Here is a tiny park on Sovietskaya in Nikolaev. It's in the center of the city.
[youtube]TY6eEmuF604[/youtube]
There are young ladies strolling along Sovietskaya. You may find somebody there if you have enough time.

Here is Siberia. Plenty of Japanese cars.
[youtube]T4gmJO8cNFM[/youtube]

[Handycam72]

Vincenzo.
 
Yet more Google, Wiki, Youtube etc to back your limited knowledge 
 
You have a very shallow view on how you estimate a countries wealth and that of its people.

You go to Ukraine, and refer to it as "The Ukraine" and see how far you get, it will create some amusement/offense for the locals that another dumb ignorant foreigner is in town who sees people there as inferior.
 
Vincenzo I strongly suggest you do more listening and stop passing your very very very limited knowledge of Ukraine or Russia as experienced fact.

I suggest you read Jumpers post again and other members who have the experience to back up their their Opinions with regard to FSU.
 
I will ask you a 3rd time.
Who considers Crimea an expensive and dirty destination compared to Turkey?
I'm waiting 

[Daveman]

Observations and assessments do vary.


Recently I drove from Donetsk, through (naming only major 'cities')  Zaparozhe, Vinnitsya, to Privetnoe (Crimea), back up through Simferopol, then west to Khelminski, Ternopil (where I had to pay the only bribe of the trip), continuing west into the Carpathian mountains and as far (south) west as Shayan (about a mile or two from the Romanian border), then north to Lviv and on to Kiev for my flight home.  I went though a ridiculous number of cities, towns, villages, farm land, Babushki heavens (sunflower farms), etc.


There is, without question, an enormous number of expensive SUV's, Mercedes, BMW, Infinity, Lexus, Skoda, VW, Pugeot, Audi, Renault, Mazda, Honda, Toyota, Hundai, some American made cars (Mustangs were the ones I noticed the most) as well as Lada.. 


Do most own a car? Hardly, but that is changing.. within the past two years I know of at least 10 ladies who purchased cars within that time frame.


figures of $100 or $200 per month may be true for a few, and especially so in the more rural villages, but those numbers just don't match up anymore with my observations within the circles of people I know (even in Zakarpathia, almost everyone under 50 has a car - not so many Mercedes or BMW's there, but far from being only Ladas).

[Handycam72]

Now where could these of been taken?
 

[Handycam72]

New bulidings too.
 

[Daveman]

...
 
I will ask you a 3rd time.
Who considers Crimea an expensive and dirty destination compared to Turkey?
I'm waiting 

I can't really say "expensive and dirty", but most ladies I know do say it's overpriced with bad service.  Generally I agree with their observations though there are exceptions..  I can't compare with Turkey, however, as I haven't been there.


The biggest drawback with going to the beaches of Crimea, aside from the mostly rocky shores, is that it takes weeks to get the voices out of my head -- "Kukuruza kto zhalaiyet...", "Piroshki!"  "Soshni samosi"  (the peach version - "persik" of the latter is to die for.. it's basically fruit and juice inside a "ball" of doughy deep fried pie shell.. VERY similar to good ole homemade southern Peach Cobbler in taste..  amazing...  and I can still hear the voice.. "Soshni SAAAAAAmosi"... that one should be classified as "food porn" in any culture.

[Handycam72]

Well service in Ukraine is, well..... relaxed.
 
It seems though our experiences are different with regard to how Crimea is regarded. I would say the majority I know love the place, and hold it in good regard, even compared to Turkey, and these are from well travelled Ukrainians and Russians. Yes people have there gripes about it, expensive being one, but that's the same for any tourist destination. Also the general gripes are the same as they have for Ukraine in general.

[OlgaH]

Why vacation in the Crimea is more expensive than in Turkey
Google translation
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://cripo.com.ua/%3Fsect_id%3D3%26aid%3D117757&ei=8edTTqmRDqrg0QHsxu3DBQ&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=2&sqi=2&ved=0CCUQ7gEwAQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25D0%259A%25D1%2580%25D1%258B%25D0%25BC%2B%25D0%25B4%25D0%25BE%25D1%2580%25D0%25BE%25D0%25B6%25D0%25B5%2B%25D1%2587%25D0%25B5%25D0%25BC%2B%25D1%2582%25D1%2583%25D1%2580%25D1%2586%25D0%25B8%25D1%258F%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1133%26bih%3D578%26prmd%3Divns

in Russian
http://cripo.com.ua/?sect_id=3&aid=117757

[Vincenzo]

So Vincenzo are you going to say who Considers Crimea a "expensive and dirty destination compared to Turkey."?

Because judging by the number of Russians and Ukrainians that go there every year it can't be that bad a place. Oh yes, and using your scientific evaluation, they all have nice expensive cars, so must have money too   

The beaches in Crimea are small and overcrowded. There is no infrastructure. Everything is expensive.

[youtube]4f2fQswAkkE[/youtube]

Turkish beaches are clean and empty.
I've checked tourist websites. A week tour to Turkey from the Ukraine including the flight costs $250 per person.
[youtube]OrBNvzhkEJ4[/youtube]

When I was in Siberia, my lady's relatives were preparing to go to Turkey. They said the trip was relatively cheap.
Though, I heard Mr Putin has been investing heavily into the Russian Black Sea coast preparing for the Olympics.

[Misha]

10 years ago, Ukrainian girls were enamored of every foreigner. Now, they don't care much.

Did you visit Ukraine 10 years ago? You seem to be making some pretty sweeping generalizations...

[Hammer2722]

How can you approach them if your Ukrainian language skills are poor?
10 years ago, Ukrainian girls were enamored of every foreigner. Now, they don't care much.

I don't know about you but of the 4 times I have been to Ukraine (Odessa, Kiev and Lviv), I have never had a problem with striking up conversations with ladies in the parks, waitresses in restaurants and other public places. Maybe you should get out more. Yes, many of them don't speak English but many of them do. You won't know till you try.

[OlgaH]

Kerch: Raw sewage dumped right into the sea
Google translation
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://www.segodnya.ua/news/14279100.html&ei=qOxTTrWgH8HAtges2rzOBQ&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCEQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25D0%259E%25D1%2582%25D0%25B4%25D1%258B%25D1%2585%25D0%25B0%25D1%258E%25D1%2589%25D0%25B8%25D0%25B5%2B%25D0%25B2%2B%25D0%259A%25D1%2580%25D1%258B%25D0%25BC%25D1%2583:%2B%2522%25D0%259F%25D1%2580%25D0%25B8%25D1%2585%25D0%25BE%25D0%25B4%25D0%25B8%25D1%2582%25D1%2581%25D1%258F%2B%25D1%2581%25D0%25B8%25D0%25B4%25D0%25B5%25D1%2582%25D1%258C%2B%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B0%2B%25D0%25BC%25D1%2583%25D1%2581%25D0%25BE%25D1%2580%25D0%25B5%2B%25D0%25B8%2B%25D0%25BA%25D1%2583%25D0%25BF%25D0%25B0%25D1%2582%25D1%258C%25D1%2581%25D1%258F%2B%25D0%25B2%2B%25D0%25B2%25D0%25BE%25D0%25BD%25D1%258E%25D1%2587%25D0%25B5%25D0%25B9%2B%25D0%25B2%25D0%25BE%25D0%25B4%25D0%25B5%2522%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1133%26bih%3D578%26prmd%3Divns

in Russian http://www.segodnya.ua/news/14279100.html

[Misha]

It's all about economy.

I don't know much about the Ukraine. A Ukrainian girl told me that the average salary in Odessa was $200, in Nikolaev - $100.

Certainly, Russia is much richer. Streets are full of cars, new buildings are everywhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia
Nobody wants to relocate to the USA with its declining economy.

Nobody? First, some women marry for love and choose the man not the economy. Second, the rise of Russia's middle-class is hyped. Sure, there is a very small elite making a lot of money, while the bulk of the middle class you cite via Wikipedia is making roughly 15,000 to 30,000 roubles per month. My wife was part of the middle class when she left Russia and even working part-time she is earning more than she did in Russia. But, it is more than simply salary: she enjoys the lifestyle and the stability Canada has to offer, and I expect the same would be true for a RW emigrating to the United States.

[Jumper]

Most cars are old Ladas, there are plenty of marshrutkas, but there are hardly any cars parked near houses... Everybody walks.

what?
 
HOUSES are mostly in suburban areas ,
and the vast majority of those home owners,  also own cars.
 
 
The vast tracts of soviet style flats, like any provincial FSU city,
will be served by buses and marshrukas.
 
that differs from a russian village?
since there is no marsutka?
 
 

I've seen it myself, I don't need to google it.

you've seen it on youtube or in person?
when where you last in Nikolaev?
 
 I was there not long ago..not sure where you stayed, but there is plenty of traffic to dodge..
 
 
I'm certainly not saying its utopia,
but at 800,000 population , it is far more similar to Joliet, Illinios,  than a Russian village.

 
I saw very  few lada's, they were the exception, not the norm.
 
Yes I agree many Ukranians do not have a car, yet  many do,and plenty of people in this city do.
 
You seem determined to compare some random  russian village to a city of almost 1 million..
it just seems very strange.