romance tours

[Dave]

ive done some research and from what i have read i think that european connections and a foreign affair are the 2 best and are about equal. i have never gone on a tour though and was wondering if they are the best and if so, which is better? also, has anyone gone on a tour with them and can share their experiences? i have thought about doing a tour for awhile and want to make sure i do the right one.

[Bruno]

A cheap and good tour :

Make it yourself... go to tourist agency and plan a trip to russia... send a e-mail to thousand woman from the oblast where you stay and say that you will be in the hotel xx in the room xx ... and say that you wish marry a RW...

When you are in your hotel in russia, don't forget to install a machine who give a nummer to each lady...

Cheap method, a lot of woman and the same chance of succes that a Tour from big agency...

Maybe you can use local russian newspaper and place a ads :

"AM search young and sexy RW for dating ( maybe marriage ). Will be visit xxxx at the hotel xxxx the xxxx to the xxxx. Send canditature to e-mail : xxxx@xxxx"

[BC]

Never done it but from descriptions of these tours seems like a good way to meat lots of women.

[Turboguy]

I have done three of European Connections tours.   I don't have a lot of time right now but I will post in depth in a few hours.    In summary I came back happy from them but looking back I am not so sure it is the best way.   I have a heating guy coming in a few minutes and when I get done with him I will post more.

[Turboguy]

Ok I am back.   I may not have a good answer for you but I will try and give you all the info I can.   I have done three of the European Connections tours.   They do a first class job, (possibly with the exception of the choice of hotels which is ok, but not more)   I have done  Kiev Moscow  11/01   Moscow St Petersburg  3/04  and Kiev Vinittsa  11/04  

The first tour was right after 9/11 which might have kept the attendance down but we had oh 18 guys and there were probably 150-200 gals each of the days.   The guys are basically pretty nice and you usually get together over breakfast and hash around war stories.  

Virtually any gal you invite to your table willl come and talk to you.  You can basically pick out any gal you want that you have talked to and invite her to dinner and she will go unless another guy got to her first.   You have an interpreter for free during the socials.   If your lady does not speak English you can have your interpeter go along to dinner.  It costs $ 10.00 for the first hour and $ 5.00 per hour after.  They will also call gals for you and invite them to meet you or go out with you.   The interpetrers are great.   After the socials are over they have some tours which are nice. 

I came back from my EC tour thinking it was the best thing I had ever done.  Unfortuantely I seem to have run into a high percentage of ladies who were scamming me so in retrospect, it may have not been as good as it seemed.

My first tour to Kiev Moscow I came back thinking I had the gal I was going to marry.   A Ukranian gal I met in Moscow named Irina.   The only thing that bothered me on our first meeting was when she said "She would never ask a man for money but if he did not offer she would think he was not intrested.  (red flag # 1)  After sending her $ 150 a month for english lessons.  we talked about going someplace warm.   She said fine but I needed to send the money for her part of the trip to her in Cash and let her make the arrangements or they would not give her an exit visa to leave the country.   (Sorry Irina, everyone I talk to tells me exit visas went out with the ussr.)  There were lots of other questionable things.

I thought I had met the gal of my dreams on the St Petersburg tour but when I when back for 6 days to see her, I spent $ 2100 in 6 days and figuer $ 800 went into her pocket on scams connected to the lies I caught her on.  (I did not say anything, I just dropper her)

I  went back in  11/04 to Kiev and Vinittsa.  In Kiev I met one lady I really liked but I think one of the other guys was working on the same gal and I think he won.

I met what seemed to be a nice one In Vinitsa, a tall nurse with a Julia Roberts smile.  at the end of my one night in Vinittsa she told me she and the interpreter would be over to visit me on Wednesday.   She would spend the night with me and the interpreter had a friend she would stay with.  She needed $ 200.00 for the car.   I gave her the money and returned to Kiev.  She and the interpreter both called the next day very appologetic that the lady had been up all night fighting with her parents who did not aprrove of her going to Kiev to see me.  (she still lives with her parents)   She would not be able to make it but would guard my $ 200 and give it back to me when I returned.   When I came back to the usa she would never return my e-mails.   I have a feeling that the same thing happens on every tour to vinittsa but who knows. 

In a nut shell, I have had a great time on the tours.  EC does a first class job.  The interpreters are great.  Kyle Steckle does a reasonably good job.   I found a lot of scammers, perhaps it was a bad run or perhaps scammers are attracted to that type of thing.

My only caution about European connections is to avoid the Global ladies or E-700 site like the plague.   I don't think it is EC's doings but that is basically a big scam.  (Just do a web search for Gloabal Ladies + Scam and see what you get.

A Foreign Affair.   EC knocks them for a disco type atmosphere at their socials.   EC's tours are about $ 100 cheaper than AFA.   Both give a discount for repeat customers of about $ 200.00   The repeat discount is what kept me with EC, otherwise I definatley would have gone with AFA    Both should be fine.

I have to say this.  I have spent about  $ 12,000  with EC mostly on tours and about $ 350.00 with AFA on a listing.   I am sending off a packet to start on my K-I visa ap to my lady today.   She came from the AFA listing.   If she had not come along there is another lady I liked a lot, and met on my last trip to Kiev.  She too came from my AFA listing.     I had a listing type deal with Elena's Models but it came too late as I was already chatting with my gal but I was swamped with very desirable ladies.  (When I say swamped, to keep up I would have had to spend 14 hours a day sending e-mails.  

I owe AFA a lot more than I do EC and got what I got for a lot less money.  Both are good.   What else would you like to know.

 

 

[KenC]

In a nut shell, I have had a great time on the tours.  I have to say this.  I have spent about  $ 12,000  with EC mostly on tours and about $ 350.00 with AFA on a listing.   I am sending off a packet to start on my K-I visa ap to my lady today.   She came from the AFA listing.  
I owe AFA a lot more than I do EC and got what I got for a lot less money.  
 

 

 

Wow!  You had a "great time" on tours for $12,000, but found a fiancee with a $350 listing.  Call me crazy, but it seems clear that tours are not the way to go.  What you could have done for $12K in the fsu is mind boogling.

KenC

[Turboguy]

I had a wonderful time on the tours.   I think different things work well for different people.    I still have friends I met on the tours and they would do them again or are continuing to do them.    Of my three good friends from Moscow/St Petersburg tour one was getting married the last I heard so counting me that was a 25% success ratio.  That is probably about typical.  

Yes, you could have a great time in the FSU for $12,000    There may have been another $ 2000.00 or so that I had a great time with that I was not counting in the 12.  

I think for me the listings work the best.   If I went back on a tour it would be more the the fun of it than with the thought of meeting the gal of my dreams.  Of course when you go without a lot of expectations is when you have something great happen.   Hopefully I am on a track where I don't have to think about meeting women any more.  

[anzo]

I agree with everything Turboguy wrote. I've been on an Anastasia tour, and 3 TLC tours to South America. If you've never been to Russia/Ukraine, I can't think of a better way to get started, because most guys are going to need some hand-holding. It is impossible to convey the feeling of being in the Socials with a couple hundred women making eye contact with you. You gotta remember that these ladies are MUCH better at this than you are. Even in a big city like St. Pete, there are plenty of nice, attractive, sincere ladies, but guys always seem to aim higher than they ought to. Which leaves the nice/reserved/shy girls sitting by themselves. If I go on another tour, I'll go somewhere like Volgograd-a little off the St. Pete/Moscow/Kiev circuit. But I swear the tour will be the best time you've ever had.

Anzo

[Albert]

As I noted before, I have had first dates with over 150 women in FSU.  My total contact cost has been less than $100.  This was for some monthly memberships in websites like american singles, lucky lovers, etc., that offer unlimited contact to all ladies in their data base.  But most of my contacts have been completely free on websites like matchdoctor and freepersonals.  And despite the fact that Jack is incredulous, I have never had any problems with scammers on these sites.  Most likely due to the fact that I never contact any gal under age 35.  Gals 35 and up simply cannot make a living from being a scammer.

So based on my experience, it is mind boggling to me when I read that guys have spent thousands of dollars in making initial contacts.

[Turboguy]

I have used some of the free sites and I agree they have fewer scammers.    No matter what value I put on my time, if I give it any value at all I have done better doing a listing type thing.   Also the gals I hear from are higher quality than I can get much action from on the sites where I write them (free or not)   If a gal responds to your info she has often (but not always) just started her seach and has listings of her own coming out.   Once her lising goes on a free site she is swamped with letters and you sorta get lost in the pile.  (I got swamped from some of my listings and it was easy to loose great cantidates in the pile of messages.

If you have never been there a tour is a great way to go because you have a lot of guys going through the same thing.  You have a great support group.  They take time to help each other.   

I have found older scammers too.  Irina who I talked about on my first tour was 38.   The Nurse was in her 30's   It is not just the young gals. 

I think Anzo is correct about the smaller cities.   Vinittsa was more fun than Kiev.   The guys who had been to Odessa said it was not good there but I think the choices are better in the smaller places that don't get tours as often.   Moscow and Kiev probably have tours from someone almost constantly.

I have come close to doing a few TLC tours.  I always sorta wanted to chat with Bruce the owner cause one of the first ladies I wrote to later became his wife.   Then I was corresponding with what was to become his sister in law after she hooked up with Bruce. 

I think Anastasia has changed hands but I met the guys on their first tour ever one one trip I made to Moscow (own my own)    I think most of the tour groups are ok if you stay to the major ones.   Between EC and AFA I think I might be tempted to go with AFA and try for some of the more out of the way cities.

[Bruno]

Wowww... 12000$ on tour... almost one year of my income... of 5 year from RW... and not already married ( more expense )...

Several Western man have not so high money... i know a local agency in Europa who make marriage between WM and RW... they ask a one time fee of 250 euro... they make the matchmaking, make "social" in France ( EU ), they help for paperwork and they help after marriage for integration... and it is a one time fee ( if 5 year is needed for your quest... no more pay )... AND I HAVE FIND THESE 250 EURO expensive !!!!

For 12000$, you can buy a woman ... sorry not one but more... Thse tour seem to be shopping for rich man... be carefull about gold diggers... scammers are not more the problem... they know you have a lot of money and can wait some year for the divorce... nationality and fortune !!! 

When you use so tour, it is like you write on your back : "i am a rich western man"... first you have the scammers, easy to detect ... but for the more dangerous, the bad one, the gold diggers, you are the perfect target...

Gold diggers are also commonly referred to as Visa Whores. While they are related to the opportunistic woman, they fall into this separate category due to their primary objective being a green card and not money. Don't get me wrong, these gold diggers want your money, but they want it in conjunction with foreign citizenship. In my opinion, Gold diggers are the most dangerous women of all. Because they are in the game for the long haul, they are exceedingly difficult to spot. The Red Flags may be subtle to non-existent, but the destruction they do financially as well as emotionally is second to none. 

 While true gold diggers span an endless gamut of types, the classic forms fall into two basic categories: the Visa Whore and the Trader.

The Visa Whore is a total user. She has a game plan from the word "go" to get her green card and as much money as possible, anyway possible. She will lie, cheat, or steal to gain her objective. She might cop for herself, or her designs on citizenship may be to bring her Russian boyfriend to join her. Who knows? Always the consummate actress, the Visa Whore will use her body to keep you happy until she feels confident enough to spring her trap. According to the immigration laws of the United States the trap will probably be sprung by an allegation of domestic violence or with the issue of the green card. If the Visa Whore is the scum of the Earth, she will play the DV card, but if she is just a scum bag with a heart, she will follow the "Day 731" rule.

It's generally expected that a permanent green card will be issued in approximately 2 years or 730 days. The "Day 731" rule is commonly accepted to mean the day after the permanent green card is issued. At that point she is free and clear to walk out the door, file for divorce, get what she can get, and move on with her life. If you think it can't get worse, you are wrong. The INS has provisions for abused immigrant spouses. The law was designed to help in the event of real abuse, but in our politically correct society it doesn't always work that way. Even if you never harm her, a Visa Whore can claim emotional abuse due to a harsh word, a slammed door, or a threat to send her back to Russia. She can have you arrested and petition the INS to immediately issue a permanent green card.

While still morally reprehensible, the Trader differs from the Visa Whore in that she is more like an average woman. She wants to improve her position in life, and if she has to use you as a stepping stone, so be it. Remarkably, a Trader may not even realize that she is a gold digger. She believes it is normal to attach herself to a man who can help her to the next level and then trade up as soon as a better prospect presents itself. The Trader will accept any offer from any man who can get her to the west, all the while knowing that she will only stay as long as it is convenient to do so. Traders don't like to be alone. Like a little monkey that is afraid to release the branch it is on until it has the next branch firmly in its grasp, the Trader will stick with her man, but only until a better man comes within reach.

There is a subset among the Traders, and they are the Up-Siders. The Up-Sider is on the cusp of being truly honest. She will look at her prospects in her homeland and realize how few good men are available. She also understands how few men actually come from the west to look for a Russian bride. In her heart she wants happiness and a real relationship, but she can not help being influenced by her current conditions. Her up-side is a chance for a good man. Her up-side is the chance for a happy family. Her up-side is a better environment. She doesn't see a down-side, but she is not in love. The Up-Sider may even give an honest attempt at making the relationship work. She may not feel love in the beginning, but is hoping that love will develop. She will take the chance to realize her dream, but she also knows that if the dream fades, she is in a better position for happiness. I can hardly find fault in an Up-Sider; we all take our chances without knowing what the future holds, but you should understand that they are out there.

Can you protect yourself from a gold digger? The same rules apply as always: take your time, meet the family and friends, and heed the Red Flags. However, the answer really lies within you. Can you be logical? Can you show discretion? Do you have common sense? gold diggers rely on you becoming infatuated and not thinking clearly. They will use there feminine wiles. They don't call it being pussy whipped without reason. The key is to do your thinking with the head between your shoulders, not the one between your legs.

What are the alternatives? A homegrown woman can leave at any time, file for divorce and take half of your money and property. Also, any woman, foreign or domestic, can file false DV charges. It's the price we pay for being born male in America.

A GOLD ADVICE : NEVER SHOW THAT YOU ARE PLENTY OF MONEY... NO PHOTO WITH BIG VILLA, WITH YACHT... NEVER SEND BIG AMOUNT OF MONEY... NEVER GO TO THESE SOCIAL FOR RICH MAN... ETC

Good russian woman wish a secure life... not specially a rich man... If you are Bill Gate, say that you work in a software compagny... it will be a good surprise for your RW to know that you are more "secure" ( rich ) after the marriage... but on the other side, if you are without job and money, don't start these adventure...

[Turboguy]

Hi Bruno,  Actually that was $ 12,000 in fees to the agency.  Add in the money I spent for dinners taxis and odds and ends and it is probably more than $ 20,000. 

Add in the money I sent to scammers from the socials and the trip back to see the one gal who was one of the worst scammers of the lot (but one of the best at french kissing.  Humm I got about 7 kisses from her so that is about $ 1500 a kiss, must be a good kisser.  If I could get that I would wear out my lips.

[Bruno]

Hi Turbo,... 1500$ the kiss  ... sorry French kiss... Visit us in Belgium... i make it at 500$ the kiss... ( 100$ for lady and 400$ for me :cool: )...

i know some russian ladies in Antwerpen who give you a French kiss and the rest for only 100$  ( 1 hours )... for full night, it is 250$...

We call this hooker.... they are more cheap that your scammer ... and not so far...

If you stay working like this in your quest for a lady , i hope that you have a machine for make money !!! With people like you, in some year, it will be more $ in FSU that in US ...

[Dave]

wow, some good info there from everyone. i placed an ad and received the many emails and found one or 2 good ones(or so i think) i too have had many scammers but luckily i havent sent any money to them. one trick that i have used to weed them out is to ask for their name and address and once i feel serious about them, i will send a flower without telling her(i have had several ladies that apparently didnt live at the address they gave...interesting aint it?) i have told them all that i wont send any money and most scammers seem to get that message and move on. a few have stayed though and one by 1 i use the flower drill. in fact i just did that with a girl that i liked very much this weekend(no such person at that address  i wrote to her for an explanation but i think i already know the answer.

with all these scammers out there, does anyone have any ideas on how to actually find a true woman? it seems that with the ad campain, most are scammers...now the tour from what turbo said has a bunch as well. am i simply wasting my time with this or is there actually a way to find a nice woman who wont leave you on day 731 after filing dv charges? man, after reading these replies it is hard to remain positive and have hope. i really dont feel like giving a $3000 down payment to get arrested and swindled of my life savings in 2 years. so what can a guy do to be protected and find a nice lady?

[Dave]

by the way, what is a TLC tour? havent heard of them before

[Bruno]

Hello Dave,

First, I'm outlining worst case scenarios.

Second, by arming you with this information, you will be less likely to end up in this terrible situation.

Third, there are more honest women than Scammers and Gold diggers combined.

Forth, any relationship involves some risk, and you can limit the risks by following a few simple rules of thumb. Plus, the benefits of finding a good Russian woman outweigh the limited risks.

Fifth, what are the alternatives? A homegrown woman can leave at any time, file for divorce and take half of your money and property. Also, any woman, foreign or domestic, can file false DV charges. It's the price you pay for being born male in America.


Read ads, make tour, start your quest without fear... but know where are the danger... at the end of way, you will find a wife... the best reward...

These forum are like news... we inform about the danger and bad side... but several people are happy married... the administrator of the site is happily married with RW and several other who post article too...

I have know a misluck with my first RW but i am now starting a relation with a other... and i was guilty about the first misluck relation, i have not see some warning sign... in these time, i have rush in the process without search information...

[Son of Clyde]

I considered a group tour at one point but I was able to find someone through an agency. Now that I know the money that can be spent on a group tour ($12,000.00 is almost one fifth of my annual salary) I'm glad I opted not to go.

[KenC]

Dave,

There is a tendency to dwell on the negatives in forums like this one.  The guys just want to be helpful and warn you of potential problems.  But there are many success stories and some like mine are really not all that complicated.  I saw a young woman on a web site that I was interested in getting to know.  I picked up the phone and called her.  After a few months of getting to know her by phone, I went to visit her in Russia.  I really didn't expect much to come of my visit as she was too beautiful and too young for me.  We now have been married for 5.5 years.  Here's my advice:

Whatever plan you use to gather women to meet the goals should be simple: meet or be introduced to women you may be interested in knowing better.  That is where any agency or web site's responsibility ends.  It is all up to you to pick and choose whom you want to pursue further.  Follow your instincts and your heart and you may just end up finding the love of your life.  But the single most important thing you can do is get on a plane and go to Russia and see for yourself.  No amount of research, reading or participation on forums like this one can replace the experience of actually being there.

Too many guys spend countless hours planning and deciding just what the best method is to find a woman and never even go.  Pick one or two and jump on in, the water is fine.

KenC

[Dave]

just trying to get all the advice i can get before i make the trip. im financially stable but certainly not rich and shelling out 3 grand for a trip is not something i can do lightly. i do plan to go at some point but i am hoping that i can make the most of the trips so i can make as few trips as possible.

[Turboguy]

First,  Dave you asked about TLC    They are based in Houston.  Run by a guy named Bruce.   They deal in Latin women.   They publish a magazine and do tours to places like Lima, Bogata, Panama City.   Most of their tours are $ 995.00  but don't include air or hotel.  They are reputable.  If you are interersted in SA women PM me and I will send you their URL or you could do a web search.

Second, if you re-read my post about spending $ 12,000 I said I spent that with EC on tours.   I did not say that one tour cost me that.   The tours are usually between $ 3295 and $ 3595 unless you want a long one with a lot of cities then they get steep.  They will tell you to bring $ 100 a day for expenses minimum.   Don't believe it.   The costs are different in different cities.   My meals in St Petersburg were running as high as $ 200 a meal.   In Kiev $ 30-40

If you have never been there a tour would be a great option.   You have some handholding and you will come back thinking it was the best thing you ever did.  You my find different over time and you might not.   The only plart I don't like about hopefully having found the gal for me is I will miss the tours and the searching too.  I always enjoyed the tours.  

I was so disapointed after the one gal I met at the tour turned out to be a scammer I gave up the whole thing for a year.   I quit visiting any web sites, I quit writing anyone.  I totally gave up on Russian women.   It is not that I minded the money so much but when you think you have found the right gal and all your work and efforts and the dreams you have had seem about the be reality it is sort of disheartning to find all all she is interested in is what is in your wallet.   It is only through a fluke and because one of the gals who I always thought was terrific married a jerk that I am here today.   Life is funny.  

[Dave]

First,  Dave you asked about TLC    They are based in Houston.  Run by a guy named Bruce.   They deal in Latin women.  

how are latin women compared to russian? i had actually thought about an AFA tour to costa rica since the price is much cheaper then russia. do they have the same values as russia?

[jb]

just trying to get all the advice i can get before i make the trip. im financially stable but certainly not rich and shelling out 3 grand for a trip is not something i can do lightly. i do plan to go at some point but i am hoping that i can make the most of the trips so i can make as few trips as possible.

Dave, if that three grand includes air fare and hotels, the price is not that bad.  In any event, a 10 day trip to any major FSU city will cost in the neighborhood of two plus grand just for airfare, (during a not shitty season of the year), flat rental @ about $40 per day, feeding yourself decent food, etc.  Your entertainment habits, drinking, clubbing, womanizing, etc., will run the tab up accordingly, so the extra grand you'd pay for the tour doesn't sound excessive to me.

Personally, in your shoes I'd prolly not do the tour thingy simple because of what Turboguy mentioned about the scammers.  On other boards I have read of tour operators who advertise these parties in the local papers, inviting young women to a gala, free for the girls, dinner, drinks, meet rich American men for the evening, and what they attract is every hooker and scammer in town with a nose for good business.  

This is something you do knowing the risks up front.  That young lovely thing you were so enthralled with may very well be plying her trade with the next group of "tourists" the day after you leave town.

[jb]

im financially stable but certainly not rich and shelling out 3 grand for a trip is not something i can do lightly. i do plan to go at some point but i am hoping that i can make the most of the trips so i can make as few trips as possible.

[/b]

So.... your kinda not serious at this point?

how are latin women compared to russian? i had actually thought about an AFA tour to costa rica since the price is much cheaper then russia.

Once again, what is your goal here?

I was ex-pat in south America for some time and can tell you all about Latin women if you wish, but not on this forum.  Personally I wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole.  They are bad news.

[Dave]

So.... your kinda not serious at this point?

that isnt the case at all. i am serious about it but as i said earlier, im no millionaire. i cant just shell out several grand just to "check it out". the reason im asking these questions is because im serious and want to gather info. the last thing i want to do is spend that money and a week later say..."ya know, i shoulda done this other thing instead." maybe you have enough money so you can travel 6-7 times but for me, its going to be a little strain on the wallet.

 

[Turboguy]

As far as latin women vs Russian women.   I think the Russian ladies are better educated and have more class.    The SA women are more passionate and hotter.   I like the looks of the Russian ladies better but there are some nice looking south american women.   I started off contacting SA women, then moved my focus to the philippines and then to Russia.  Once I started contacting Russian gals I never went back to the others.   I had thought about a TLC tour but I think it was more for entertainment.   For $ 995 plus hotel and air I just wanted to go some places I had never been.  

As i have said before most of the guys who do the EC tours think it is the best thing they have ever done.   I think sometimes the results are not as good as they think they will be but lots of them meet the gal they want to find too.