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Author Topic: Navalny 'poisoned' ..?  (Read 8470 times)

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Offline msmob

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Navalny 'poisoned' ..?
« on: August 24, 2020, 11:14:11 PM »
My apologies if there is a thread, elsewhere about this topic.

Several days have passed since this story broke and I am no longer shocked by the frequency of dissident opinion resulting in poisonings.

I have no idea if these events are state co ordinated or simply those who wish to warn off dissidents and the govt. turns a blind eye.

What irks most are the supposedly western educated contributors on fora who fall for the reasons behind poisonings..

We have read of Navalny having 'low blood sugar' and substances similar to 'date rape' drugs..
Yet when one questions why Navalny was isolated from medical care from Germany, after initial openess it is met with deletions ....

To me that is v.telling.

Some 'useful innocents' still exist in the 21 C?
Let's hope Navalny recovers and suffers not lasting effects.





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Navalny 'poisoned' ..?
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2020, 06:27:38 AM »
Kremlin defies calls to probe Navalny illness, says poisoning not yet certain

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-politics-navalny-kremlin/kremlin-defies-calls-to-probe-navalny-illness-says-poisoning-not-yet-certain-idUSKBN25L14Z


Russian opposition leader Alexey Navalny was poisoned, Berlin hospital says
http://www.cnn.com/2020/08/24/europe/alexey-navalny-germany-poison-grm-intl/index.html


Navalny Was Poisoned, But His Life Isn't in Danger, German Hospital Says

http://www.npr.org/2020/08/24/905423648/navalny-was-poisoned-but-his-life-isnt-in-danger-german-hospital-says


Kremlin voices distract and deny in wake of Navalny suspected poisoning

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/alexei-navalny-poisoning-1.5698651


« Last Edit: August 25, 2020, 06:59:27 AM by 2tallbill »
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Online 2tallbill

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Navalny 'poisoned' ..?
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2020, 06:58:48 AM »
Here are some Russian News Sources


Kremlin sees no grounds to launch criminal probe into Navalny’s condition
http://tass.com/society/1193455


EU Calls For Independent Russian Investigation Into Navalny’s Condition
http://sputniknews.com/europe/202008251080268978-eu-calls-for-independent-russian-investigation-into-navalnys-condition/


Kremlin: Putin Wasn't Involved in Talks on Transportation of Opposition Figure Navalny to Germany
http://sputniknews.com/russia/202008241080259954-kremlin-putin-wasnt-involved-in-talks-on-transportation-of-opposition-figure-navalny-to-germany/


Omsk Doctors Say They Found No Traces of Poison in Alexei Navalny’s System
http://sputniknews.com/russia/202008241080258316-omsk-doctors-say-they-found-no-traces-of-poison-in-alexei-navalnys-system/


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Offline msmob

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Re: Navalny 'poisoned' ..?
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2020, 08:39:33 AM »
#3 of Beel's links

Putin wasn't involved

His right hand fibber Press Secretary was ..  He's the guy who told us no RU military were involved in Crimea takeover ..

Then they expect to be taken seriously

Offline BillyB

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Re: Navalny 'poisoned' ..?
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2020, 11:15:35 AM »

Navalny was given a nerve agent. Hopefully it's more pleasant than radioactive poisoning or falling out of a 6th story window.
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Offline Rosco

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Re: Navalny 'poisoned' ..?
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2020, 11:48:09 AM »
Navalny was given a nerve agent. Hopefully it's more pleasant than radioactive poisoning or falling out of a 6th story window.

Can you quote that from an official source?

Online 2tallbill

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Navalny 'poisoned' ..?
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2020, 11:54:25 AM »
Can you quote that from an official source?

Hey Rosco welcome to the forum!

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Offline Rosco

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Re: Navalny 'poisoned' ..?
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2020, 01:15:12 PM »
Hey Rosco welcome to the forum!

Thanks Bill & epic avatar BTW 🤙

I think the Navalny thing is obvious, he just got a bum shot of the covid vaccine. Nothing to see here  :D

Offline BillyB

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Re: Navalny 'poisoned' ..?
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2020, 04:06:50 PM »
Can you quote that from an official source?

A spokeswoman for the Charité hospital in Berlin said on Monday that initial clinical findings pointed to “poisoning by a substance from the drug class cholinesterase inhibitors”. Translation is he was poisoned from a nerve agent.


   Charité said Mr Navalny was being treated with the antidote atropine. “That — and the reference to cholinesterase inhibitors — suggests he was exposed to a nerve agent,” said Jean-Pascal Zanders, an expert in chemical weapons. He said atropine is used to treat patients who have been exposed to nerve agents such as novichok, sarin or VX.  Some of you probably recognize the nerve agents mentioned. They are controlled by the military. Statement from the Kremlin is they don't think an investigation is necessary.


http://www.ft.com/content/9b47a04f-6e5b-414b-98d6-ce6caaf21e25

Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline GQBlues

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Re: Navalny 'poisoned' ..?
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2020, 04:59:14 PM »
….Translation is he was poisoned from a nerve agent....

Your inference is 'someone poisoned him'? I didn't see that in the article. I thought this drug was used for people with Alzheimer's disease?
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Online Hammer2722

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Re: Navalny 'poisoned' ..?
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2020, 06:55:59 PM »
Your inference is 'someone poisoned him'? I didn't see that in the article. I thought this drug was used for people with Alzheimer's disease?


Anyone that served in the military would definitely recognize Atropine. It is used to treat nerve agent victims......
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Offline BillyB

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Re: Navalny 'poisoned' ..?
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2020, 08:08:12 PM »
Your inference is 'someone poisoned him'? I didn't see that in the article.


Do you think a highly controlled nerve agent that can get a person thrown in prison for crimes against humanity if used on a large scale just happened to be laying around and Navanly just happened to touch it or fell into his stomach by accident? Nobody else had the same bad indigestion that led to a coma that day. Nerve agents, radioactive material, and falling out of windows are all tools used to make leaders of opposing parties think twice about starting a revolution. Putin sees what is happening to Luka in Belarus. He doesn't want to have any opposition leaders gathering enough support like what we see there.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline GQBlues

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Re: Navalny 'poisoned' ..?
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2020, 10:54:13 PM »
Do you think a highly controlled nerve agent that can get a person thrown in prison for crimes against humanity if used on a large scale just happened to be laying around and Navanly just happened to touch it or fell into his stomach by accident? Nobody else had the same bad indigestion that led to a coma that day. Nerve agents, radioactive material, and falling out of windows are all tools used to make leaders of opposing parties think twice about starting a revolution. Putin sees what is happening to Luka in Belarus. He doesn't want to have any opposition leaders gathering enough support like what we see there.

Gotcha! You don’t know either. Just wanted to make sure.
Quote from: msmob
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2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline BC

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Re: Navalny 'poisoned' ..?
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2020, 12:53:05 AM »
BillyB,

Cholinesterase Inhibitors are found in some insecticides and pest control products as well.  You may well have some under your kitchen sink or in the garden shed.  Doesn't have to be a military nerve agent.

Atropine is also used in cases of accidental and intentional poisoning.  Even vets keep it handy.

Offline msmob

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Re: Navalny 'poisoned' ..?
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2020, 12:53:13 AM »
Thanks Bill & epic avatar BTW 🤙

I think the Navalny thing is obvious, he just got a bum shot of the covid vaccine. Nothing to see here  :D

Rosco,

IF you had thought, you would ask yourself why German doctors would 'do their states's bidding'  ...You have to be suggesting it's a western conspiracy..

« Last Edit: August 26, 2020, 04:08:08 AM by msmob »

Offline Rosco

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Re: Navalny 'poisoned' ..?
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2020, 02:30:27 AM »
A spokeswoman for the Charité hospital in Berlin said on Monday that initial clinical findings pointed to “poisoning by a substance from the drug class cholinesterase inhibitors”. Translation is he was poisoned from a nerve agent.


   Charité said Mr Navalny was being treated with the antidote atropine. “That — and the reference to cholinesterase inhibitors — suggests he was exposed to a nerve agent,” said Jean-Pascal Zanders, an expert in chemical weapons. He said atropine is used to treat patients who have been exposed to nerve agents such as novichok, sarin or VX.  Some of you probably recognize the nerve agents mentioned. They are controlled by the military. Statement from the Kremlin is they don't think an investigation is necessary.


http://www.ft.com/content/9b47a04f-6e5b-414b-98d6-ce6caaf21e25

So that's a no then Billy. None of the above proves anything.

Billy you're just running with some speculation that aligns itself with your own prejudice. He may well have been poisoned but equally it could be something to do with heavy drinking and medication. It may well have come from Putin but equally it may well have come from another source, assuming it was intentional.

Until then I prefer to wait for facts before running off with a foamy mouth.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2020, 02:35:30 AM by Rosco »

Offline Rosco

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Re: Navalny 'poisoned' ..?
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2020, 02:36:22 AM »
Rosco,

IF you had thought, you would ask yourself why German doctors would 'do their status's bidding'  ...You have to be suggesting it's a western conspiracy..

What are you mumbling on about now Moby?

Offline msmob

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Re: Navalny 'poisoned' ..?
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2020, 04:10:08 AM »
What are you mumbling on about now Moby?

OK, there was a spelling 'mistook' , but my Q  is clear, now ..

Q: Are you suggesting the German Docs are lying ?

Offline BillyB

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Re: Navalny 'poisoned' ..?
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2020, 06:11:02 AM »
So that's a no then Billy. None of the above proves anything.

Billy you're just running with some speculation that aligns itself with your own prejudice. He may well have been poisoned but equally it could be something to do with heavy drinking and medication. It may well have come from Putin but equally it may well have come from another source, assuming it was intentional.

Until then I prefer to wait for facts before running off with a foamy mouth.


You're suspecting heavy drinking topped off with some prescription drugs after what the German doctors and chemical weapons experts said? Alrighty then! I guess the German medical professionals weren't capable of doing accurate bloodwork.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline Rosco

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Re: Navalny 'poisoned' ..?
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2020, 09:10:02 AM »
OK, there was a spelling 'mistook' , but my Q  is clear, now ..

Q: Are you suggesting the German Docs are lying ?

I'm suggesting that the Germans doctors have confirmed that Navalny has tested positive for the same group of chemical compounds used as pharmaceuticals for both medical and abuse purposes, insecticides and nerve agents.

Over and above that we have speculation and people choosing to fit public information into their prejudices.

Was he poisoned? There's a reasonable chance. Was it Putin? We wouldn't be overly shocked. Is there proof? None yet.

Offline msmob

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Re: Navalny 'poisoned' ..?
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2020, 09:34:17 AM »
I'm suggesting that the Germans doctors have confirmed that Navalny has tested positive for the same group of chemical compounds used as pharmaceuticals for both medical and abuse purposes, insecticides and nerve agents.

Over and above that we have speculation and people choosing to fit public information into their prejudices.

Was he poisoned? There's a reasonable chance. Was it Putin? We wouldn't be overly shocked. Is there proof? None yet.

Thanks, Rosco

Now.. combined with Mr Peskov back-tracking on, " you can take him to Germany"  and the German team being kept at arms length.. one must wonder what they ( Russians ) were covering up ?

 
« Last Edit: August 26, 2020, 09:37:12 AM by msmob »

Online 2tallbill

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Navalny 'poisoned' ..?
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2020, 11:17:32 AM »
Over and above that we have speculation and people choosing to fit public information into their prejudices.

Was he poisoned? There's a reasonable chance. Was it Putin? We wouldn't be overly shocked. Is there proof? None yet.

I totally agree, well said. 

« Last Edit: August 26, 2020, 11:23:50 AM by 2tallbill »
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Offline BillyB

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Re: Navalny 'poisoned' ..?
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2020, 12:38:05 PM »
Prescription drugs that fall under cholinesterase inhibitors category side effects are much less dangerous than the side effects of nerve agents. Going into a coma is not a side effect of a prescription drug. Russian doctors said he had a sugar imbalance and problems with his metabolism which led to a coma. That's what their blood work "supposedly" revealed. They did not claim he had any drugs or alcohol in his body.

FWIW, Putin will never be found guilty because there will not be an investigation that leads to him ever. Political opposition and journalists have a much higher rate of assassination attempts in the FSU than elsewhere in the world. Not hard to figure it out folks.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2020, 01:29:45 PM by BillyB »
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Offline BillyB

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Re: Navalny 'poisoned' ..?
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2020, 09:24:36 AM »

For those who are still in denial about what Navalny was poisoned with. Look at the photo below and ask yourself why German Army medics transported Navalny in a special stretcher to protect their medics from getting what Navalny got.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline ML

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Re: Navalny 'poisoned' ..?
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2020, 10:32:16 AM »
For those who are still in denial about what Navalny was poisoned with. Look at the photo below and ask yourself why German Army medics transported Navalny in a special stretcher to protect their medics from getting what Navalny got.

Billy that only indicates they are taking precaution.

That photo (I believe) is before Germans did any testing, so they could not have known for sure what the poison was, if it existed.

Sure, I believe Putin and his boys did poison Navalny . . . but medics taking precaution before any testing doesn't verify anything.
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