How to Visit Many without lying?

[Trenchcoat]

That is a thread title that needs doing  ie


‘The Clueless Cheapskates Guide to Dating a FSUW.’ via Trenchcoat

If you don't --I will !!

Seriously -- I wrote in thread  of what to buy ( ie next to nothing) for first meeting  . I note the op has  ignored that --instead he listens to some truly clueless ( Trenchcoat)and near clueless (BillyB) and some ridiculous ( the K) comments for info.

I make no claim on knowing everything or suggesting there is only one way to do anything --BUT -- giving much credence to a guy with next to zero time on the ground ( trench = what ?6 days of failure?)  and guys who make ridiculous bragging claims from a yesteryear etc etc --compared with my average of well over 100 days a year in Ukraine over some years( quite a few in fact) etc etc

A few facts-- there is very little I can think of not available to buy in Ukraine -get your head around that.The last 24 hours-- the shops have been packed-- and i mean incredibly busy everywhere you turn --put that in the Trenchcoat pipe and smoke it !!

This in not the 1990's where girls did try and escape-- and tried to find a meal ticket to feed her family-- those days are long gone now.Unless guys are big city savvy &  cool ( ie interesting)-- chances are Ukrainian girls are going to be out of bounds for them . FULL STOP. Now that applies to a guy in a decent age range --if older and a bigger age gap-- a guy will really need something going for him.

If you have Trenchcoat type cheap in your head and are going to quibble over every cent you spend -- forget it -- you are wasting your time . FULL STOP
Today  above -I just read the height of ridiculous -- ie buying flowers to carry on an airplane LoL -too stupid for words.

Jay, you can look around for a girl that is happy with more modest ideas on gifts, wants, etc. I am generally doing that also, you seem to think too modest, that's fine I understand that.

What Krimster is saying I believe is that if a guy is intent on a girl then expensive gifts like diamonds  are the most sure fire way to bring a girl around. As Jone has pointed out this has its downsides - she will expect at least around that next time or more. Krimster is a software engineer that earns loads of money so money is not much off an issue to him I get the impression. Nothing wrong with that he is using what he has got that he knows works with a lot of UW as it is easy for him & of little consequence. Krimster was also looking at most relationships as short term affairs for personal enjoyment. Yes a guy that is looking for a long term relationship who is not loaded could seriously mess things up by going in with expensive gifts that he can't keep up. I know from my experiences with a girl last year that once you start on the gift giving apart from the greeting flowers/basic gift you are setting the  basis on which that relationship will likely be based.

The question is whether BB on meeting this girl will want a short or long term relationship?

He seems to indicate a desire for a long term relationship but his dating actions at home at the moment indicate that it might end up more of a short term deal.

Flowers incidently I have been told by a florist open out more in flight due to the warm cabin/hold temperatures as the planew is nearer the sun, etc. So it can help a rose particularly I'd it is the opening out type to look more beautiful. So long of course that you don't buy it days before the journey, within 24 hrs is best. Also apparently no water tube for the journey is needed either. A small bunch of flowers is not bad as you can then choose the best looking one once there.

I too have seen many Ukrainians around thE shopping area in Kiev, however few were at the shop tills buying - just me apparently, lol.

[krimster2]

geezzz JayH

there is information, knowledge, and wisdom
I do not believe that whatever quantities of these you possess is greater than anyone else’s on this board!

if you feel I am in error, then please enumerate by specific examples of your success in Ukraine

do remember, “it ain’t brag, if it’s fact”
and lay off the dingo juice


BTW mein volk
about jewelry in Ukraine
do remember Ukraine has a 20% VAT, plus there is an extra 10% luxury tax on top of that, so 30 % sales tax on jewelry in Ukraine!

IMHO, a lot of counterfeit jewelry is sold in Ukraine!
as a result of high tax and high probability of counterfeiting, I would NEVER recommend buying jewelry in Ukraine!!

so, if you are considering jewelry as a gift, you must bring it with you...


OK, due to the fact, that most of the readers of this board are uncultured hillbillys
I should explain the Krimster Jewelry Policy in the context of a first date meeting
and yes the Krimster Jewelry Policy does have MULTIPLE contexts

you keep the jewelry for “later”
I always plan for success by the way
have never known failure in Ukraine

a total inventory of gifts would include from the following:

1. tea/coffee sampler set
2. handmade soap and beeswax candles from my hometown
3. if it’s winter - fur lined leather gloves in her size
4. cashmere sweater (highest quality in her size and color)
5. gold/platinum necklace or diamond+saphires

you begin with the simplest, and then as your relationship progress you keep surprising her with gifts, it’s the surprise part that’s also important!

on the evening that the two of you are going to have sex for the first time, you give her the necklace during dinner

OK, all ist klar?

JayH, please remember there are two kinds of men in this world
the kind that have to wash their own underwear
and the other kind that have a beautiful woman do the washing for them

I know which kind of man I am...
JayH, which kind are you?

[Boethius]

For krimster -





This post was composed with the aid of youtube.

[krimster2]

don't mock me wench!
for I am the mighty Tatar lord who lays waste to all in his path!

[Boethius]

You do know what happened to the Tatars, right?

This post was composed without the aid of google.

[JayH]

For you K man --advice to buy jewelery to a guy that has never met the girl --is ridiculous. FULL STOP
The OP is  in the barely know her category -- with even less of an idea of what he is facing .
To spell it out --going overboard with an expensive gift will embarrass  someone -the girl or the OP !!It is totally unwarranted and out of place  --like a guy who buys dinner and expects to get his leg over as "payment" !!

Now for all to note --the K exposure was 20 years ago --and handing out expensive gifts as an opener ( Jone put it more bluntly what it was intended to open)   The real fact is that the K man has bragged about what I see as a modest "scoreboard" of his "achievements"all in the no big deal category  that idiots like Trenchcoat thinks he can emulate . For those that think I am being cruel-- note TC is a disciple of numerous sex tourists that promote some of the garbage TC has sprouted and continues to sprout.
Like I said above --the experiences of yesteryear are quite different -- so for all of yesterdays people--face it.Sure -- relationship issues do not change that much -- but it is a very very different world.

I note above --Trenchcoat thinks he knows better -- for anyone else here who has been in Ukraine this last few days-- please -- spell out what I was alluding too. The shopping centres are packed,the markets are jumping ( -4C outside today)  -- and specifically for TC-- queues at cash registers 10 deep !! And TC still thinks he is an oligarch compared to people in Ukraine !!

The point of my comments --if you go with such outmoded arse up ideas -- YOU WILL FAIL.That fundamentally condescending lack of respect reflects on the dunce who thinks like that.
Those encouraging ideas like that -- are not helping anyone . There are enough dumb guys who arrive here without encouraging them to be even dumber !!

[GenMish]

For you K man --advice to buy jewelery to a guy that has never met the girl --is ridiculous. FULL STOP
The OP is  in the barely know her category --

The way I read it, K man isn't saying its the right thing to do, K is just goading BB into buying jewelry for her. imo-K man thinks BB is going to be shot down, and why not have BB go down in flames?

[krimster2]

you guys seem to predicate everything being based on a failed outcome...

this NEVER happened to ME in Ukraine even with women 20 yr younger than me!

NEVER! NOT ONCE!
and why I always planned for success there
and also why I’m totally baffled by guys who have struck out there




“You do know what happened to the Tatars, right?"

yes BO!
they got rich from selling pretty little Ukrainian girls in the slave markets of Constantinople!

JayH,

on the issue of currency of experience
as has been said here before by others
the more things change, the more they remain the same
my experience in Crimea this past July
fully verified this
BTW, JayH, I read that Tide is a great laundry detergent for getting out those really tough underwear stains!

[Boethius]

Every Tatar khanate was defeated by the Russians, subsumed to Russian rule.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

[Trenchcoat]

OK, due to the fact, that most of the readers of this board are uncultured hillbillys
I should explain the Krimster Jewelry Policy in the context of a first date meeting
and yes the Krimster Jewelry Policy does have MULTIPLE contexts

you keep the jewelry for “later”
I always plan for success by the way
have never known failure in Ukraine

a total inventory of gifts would include from the following:

1. tea/coffee sampler set
2. handmade soap and beeswax candles from my hometown
3. if it’s winter - fur lined leather gloves in her size
4. cashmere sweater (highest quality in her size and color)
5. gold/platinum necklace or diamond+saphires

you begin with the simplest, and then as your relationship progress you keep surprising her with gifts, it’s the surprise part that’s also important!

on the evening that the two of you are going to have sex for the first time, you give her the necklace during dinner

OK, all ist klar?

Krim, is it ok if I substitute an expensive diamond necklace for a cheap but no less impressive Zirconia necklace in this enterprise?

I would off course make out it was a real expensive diamond necklace I'm pretty sure most would be none the wiser!

[Trenchcoat]

you guys seem to predicate everything being based on a failed outcome...

this NEVER happened to ME in Ukraine even with women 20 yr younger than me!

NEVER! NOT ONCE!
and why I always planned for success there
and also why I’m totally baffled by guys who have struck out there.

I think pretty much all WM are clueless as to how  things are out there in terms of Ukrainian dating conventions & Ukrainian dating society. They go out there having been brought up in western society and are influenced  & conditioned by western society. Western society, it's norms & values are all they know and are used to. Western society is influenced greatly by the media and it's feminist agenda, take this article on the BBC website today:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-46164568

I mean wtf how is a guy supposed to grow up in western society today even vaguely knowing what thd hell he is supposed to do and think in the western dating world, never mind in the Ukraine.

Our western society relays men in articles like these that they need to kow tow to whatever rubbish the girl comes out with to even stand a chance with a girl and even then their  chance us slim. As this article shows, one word out of place or one thing done by western dating convention that was the accepted way of doing things all off a sudden has become a bugbear of feminism and hence your relationship also. You can have your relationship ruined by one small insignificant detail or thing you do or are.

Most men are so confused as to what they are supposed to be doing in western relationships that they just don't know how to act, hence the situation of INCELS. The west generally teaches guys that they need to be namby pamby weak girly men so as to not offend girls if they are to stand any chance with them which they tend not to anyway.

Ukrainian women are a completely different scene, they are feminine not feminist. They know to take up feminism would be to destroy themselves and condemn them to a single life struggling on alone. Decades ago in the west women were probably more like UW not now though. I remember the eighties just and that was probably the last decade that had any conventional boy-girl notions of dating thd the boy being the boy and the girl being the girl. Guys growing up in the west since then will have utterly no inkling and will think the feminist western world is thd norm and how 'civilised' society is supposed to be.

Most of us on here are a bit older than that so some will have one clue BUT we are still influenced daily by the feminist media and that has its affects. A western man in Ukraine, particularly a newbie isnt going to have a clue of hos things are most of the time. Over time we learn some stuff but even still compared to a local such as yourself Krimster we only know but a few pieces of the puzzle. I for one am grateful to you in helping us all in how things are out there and hos to go about dating beautiful UW

[Trenchcoat]

I note above --Trenchcoat thinks he knows better -- for anyone else here who has been in Ukraine this last few days-- please -- spell out what I was alluding too. The shopping centres are packed,the markets are jumping ( -4C outside today)  -- and specifically for TC-- queues at cash registers 10 deep !! And TC still thinks he is an oligarch compared to people in Ukraine !!

Jay in a city like Kiev of near 3 million people sure a few thousand even in bad times will have money to go shop a little bit. They will buy the odd few items. This is not the majority though. Both Donna Pedro & Krimster have told you that most Ukrainians are poor in general. Statistics, news reports and girls I have met have backed this up.

I know there was a time about a decade ago when we in thd west hit recession due to the credit crunch, etc. At that point many in the west weren't doing too well and Ukrainians by comparison weren't doing too badly. Since then their economy has crashed, civil war has erupted, inflation had gone up - they are back towards the bad old days of the nineties. Meanwhile much off western society is now getting on quite decently compared to credit crunch times of a decade ago.

A decade ago people I remember on here were saying the same thing as you now are - that Ukrainians are now quite wealthy and live a comparable life to us. They may have done for a while but now I'm pretty sure matters have returned most of them to a poor life style.

[BdHvA]

Krim, is it ok if I substitute an expensive diamond necklace for a cheap but no less impressive Zirconia necklace in this enterprise?

I would off course make out it was a real expensive diamond necklace I'm pretty sure most would be none the wiser!

Trench, While I am not certain what Krimster's opinion is, nor do I care. The above sums up your mentality and attitude quite well. Trying to get a pearl of great value on the cheap and by deception.

You continue to ignore members common sense advice and reinvent the wheel. Good Luck!

In the what it is worth department a fair number of younger women of Ukraine can sense (see and feel) the difference between carbon and zircon.

[krimster2]

dewd

he was joking...
that humor thing....

[Davo2]

It's hard to pick Trenches humor. He needs to utilize emoji's better.

Krim, is it ok if I substitute an expensive diamond necklace for a cheap but no less impressive Zirconia necklace in this enterprise?

I would off course make out it was a real expensive diamond necklace. I'm pretty sure most would be none the wiser! 

[JayH]

It's hard to pick Trenches humor. He needs to utilize emoji's better.

Nothing "humorous  in what the complete and utter f......g idiot says --  it may not be a serious comment from most people but it equals about how the idiot thinks.

I only bother to post my comments when I see  such misguided wrong headed crap from the idiot -- and a few others that are amused to egg him on. Naive people read this stuff -- and the volume of this idiots posts can only serve to be extremely unhelpful to anyone reading. His comments are offensive--  on many grounds. He cannot seem to ever learn or change -- regardless of how often and how many others have tried. I made the call that he is a social misfit ( in any world) very early here on the forum -- and a fair number here gave him the benefit of the doubt and showed great patience in trying to redirect him -the result --one by one and almost universally my assessment has been agreed with.

Read his responses above -- a painful attempt to  misrepresent what I actually said.This guy still thinks he can conquer a new world with a mirror and a hairbrush to achieve his end.

[krimster2]

picture sez it all really...

[JayH]

Jay in a city like Kiev of near 3 million people sure a few thousand even in bad times will have money to go shop a little bit. They will buy the odd few items. This is not the majority though. Both Donna Pedro & Krimster have told you that most Ukrainians are poor in general. Statistics, news reports and girls I have met have backed this up.

I know there was a time about a decade ago when we in thd west hit recession due to the credit crunch, etc. At that point many in the west weren't doing too well and Ukrainians by comparison weren't doing too badly. Since then their economy has crashed, civil war has erupted, inflation had gone up - they are back towards the bad old days of the nineties. Meanwhile much off western society is now getting on quite decently compared to credit crunch times of a decade ago.

A decade ago people I remember on here were saying the same thing as you now are - that Ukrainians are now quite wealthy and live a comparable life to us. They may have done for a while but now I'm pretty sure matters have returned most of them to a poor life style.

I am following up again on some of this -- as the post above is so wrong on many fronts.
In particular I want to elaborate on what I wrote earlier (this is all a waste of time to attempt to educate the idiot )
The TC exposure is so tiny - really a waste to even bother pointing that out.
 
In Kyiv -there are areas and shops that are more Knightsbridge or 5th Avenue with retail prices to make you squirm-- but -that does not stop a girl looking!
In Ukraine --Black Friday has become a serious event for retailers and consumers  and that is why all the hyper activity over these last few days .The picture painted by the idiot TC is so far from reality that is is a complete and utter joke.
Today -I was again at numerous stores and centres --the largest which is super king size even by US standards  --which sells near enough anything you can think of with a huge range -- cars lined up waiting to get into the large dedicated car park --it's own bus stop etc. Super busy and people buying what you would see anywhere at this type of  store !
Now that also goes for each and every centre and store we visited all the way to closing time.The demographic covered all.
So -- people are spending money ( the black economy is larger than the official one in Ukraine)

There is no dispute that many people are short of money in Ukraine-- and I am not disputing that point--  but the idiot Trenchcoat chooses to believe he is a king compared to Ukrainians who  he has repeatedly said are as poor as a church mouse or whatever_)   and even in the post quoted above -- attempts to quote words from a few that are misleading-to say the least ( the 2 quoted have spent how many days in Ukraine in the last 5 years--what is it 10  or 15 and all by the K man a few months ago).

In summary -- what I am seeing now is not that much different to much more affluent countries ( who also have people with little disposable income)  -- and where Walmart level shopping is the norm -- and not 5th Avenue !

[SteveInBoston]

I am in Vienna right now, but was in Kyiv last week.

It is interesting to see how popular Black Friday has caught on.  My wife-to-be got a promotion message from her bank - install apple pay on her phone and all purchases on Black Friday weekend with her bank card via apple pay will get 5-25% discount, plus cash back incentives. 

I even got a black friday promo code from Allo.ua, which I signed up for just out of curiosity (I was looking for a cell phone last week).

I noticed consumerism in Ukraine is similar to South Korea - people will spend 1/2 month or more salary on name brand items that are in fashion.  Add in a discount event like black friday and...wow. 

I also noticed that on Saturday and Sunday some stores were promoting "Black Discount", not wanting to mention "Friday".

[krimster2]

jayh

would you like cheese to go along with that WHINE of yours?

what you’re observing in kyiv is not new
I used to shop at walmart type stores in kyiv in the early 2000s and even been in the “Tiplitsa”
I hated shopping for things like furniture in Ukraine
only shopping I liked was in the outdoor markets like Kurazh Bazar

but these are just trendy little details
regarding the degree that western commercialization has penetrated Ukraine

if you look at the underlying economic advantage WMs have in Ukraine
then nothing has really changed very significantly in the last 10 years

search on Google for
ukraine gdp per capita 2017

and you’ll see that Ukraine is at the same spot it was 10 yr ago
whereas in a really swell country like the USA it has increased by 25% during this same period

ergo, economic advantage of WMs is INCREASING
Ukraine economy is going to take a BIG hit in 2019 when NorthStream opens

[jone]

jayh

would you like cheese to go along with that WHINE of yours?

what you’re observing in kyiv is not new
I used to shop at walmart type stores in kyiv in the early 2000s and even been in the “Tiplitsa”
I hated shopping for things like furniture in Ukraine
only shopping I liked was in the outdoor markets like Kurazh Bazar

but these are just trendy little details
regarding the degree that western commercialization has penetrated Ukraine

if you look at the underlying economic advantage WMs have in Ukraine
then nothing has really changed very significantly in the last 10 years

search on Google for
ukraine gdp per capita 2017

and you’ll see that Ukraine is at the same spot it was 10 yr ago
whereas in a really swell country like the USA it has increased by 25% during this same period

ergo, economic advantage of WMs is INCREASING
Ukraine economy is going to take a BIG hit in 2019 when NorthStream opens

Kyiv is a helluva lot different than the rest of the country.

[krimster2]

"Kyiv is a helluva lot different than the rest of the country."

sadly, true...

[rwd123]

Kyiv is a helluva lot different than the rest of the country.

Further, the center of Kyiv is different to the rest of the country. It's almost like comparing the City of London to the rest of the UK.

I was talking business with a friend in Kyiv last week. She said it's harder to get rich people to spend than it was a few years ago (i.e., before 2014). Black Friday is popular because a) status is valued and it provides an opportunity to buy status on the cheap, and b) saving money matters to most people.

Just because the majority of people in Ukraine are poor does not mean they are looking to move, any more than the majority of Britons are not wealthy bankers, traders, entrepreneurs, etc. and looking to migrate. People are creatures of habit and generally comfortable with what is familiar to them.

[JayH]

Kyiv is a helluva lot different than the rest of the country.

My specific reference of Kyiv was because it related to the TC post and what he "thinks"he saw.

Up market stores are not confined to Kyiv -- eg Odesa has plenty -- and in virtually every city of any size across Ukraine has stores  of many well known brands.
The growth of western style shopping centres right across Ukraine  has been substantial over the last 4 years ( despite everything) and is a reality that reflects the changes happening in Ukraine.

Going back some years -I mused in a thread about the number of large flat screen TV's I used to see being  carried across the road heading for the bus stop --these days --it is across the car park to a car !!

[brownbeard99]

Geez... of all the weeks to go to Ukraine.... I pick the week Russia attacks them and parliament wants to institute martial law.

This should be fun...