USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran

[msmob]

I'd advise SC to wear more clothes and be prepared to be hit on by many, many Georgian men. I'd also advise her to wear a wedding ring. That was what AW are advised to do who taught English here with the LTG program. Topless? I suppose she could. I'm not sure if the police would arrest her for indecent exposure if she was somewhat discreet about it. The place where I advise for sun bathing and splashing in the Sea is by an Army outpost. The water is the clearest there. I took you over there. She'd give the soldier on watch something to watch (probably with binoculars).

Hi Maxx

I think you know my question was 'generalised' .. as in many American beaches goping topless is frowned apon

SC knows how to handle Georgian / Turkish guys !

[Maxx2]

SC knows how to handle Georgian / Turkish guys !

My guess she knows how to handle stares as well.   

[msmob]

Attilla the Hun was a lefty all dictators are. Control by the State is a Lefty ideal.
Liberty, freedom and protection FROM the State is a Righty ideal.

Maybe you don't know what characterizes lefties and righties. 

Really, who WAS your teacher of history,  Beel ?  They must join your Mathematics teacher in shame..

So, according to the Beel School of revisionist History   ( or BS for short !) Hilter was a 'leftie' because he was a 'National Socialist ' ?    What about Mussolini, Franco et al ...  ? Why were socialists fighting them ?

Good lord, only you can bring up Brexit when discussing imaginary plots between
the USA, Japan and Iran, neither being a party to your beloved Brexit.

'Imaginary plots ?' Do tell us who is 'imaginating' what ?

[msmob]

Yes, definitely a Lefty. Using words like polarization as an excuse to shut
down free speech.

The very definition of free speech is to be able to speak freely about stuff
and not only stuff that lefties agree with. Lefty Dogma only works in a
vacuum where alternative thoughts and ideas aren't allowed. That's
why lefties nearly always lose debates. Their ideas suck.

1/ I care not what people call me - but at least they could listen to a fact or two, before being foolish ..

2/ Freedom to post bollox like 'Holocasut denial ' - you think THAT is OK, too ?

'Leftes' - sadly - often win debates - by gaining power in free and fair elections ..


Put on your listening head, 'Beel' .. You ain't thinking straight

[2tallbill]

Your photos are of drag queens.  Typically, they aren't looking for underaged boys.

Yet, 100% of men who like underaged boys are homosexuals.

As for the question, two words - Dennis Hastert. 

Jeffrey Epstein

You found ONE right wing pedo what has that got to do with his question? 

[2tallbill]

1/ I care not what people call me - but at least they could listen to a fact or two, before being foolish ..

You are a lefty, your opinions are lefty. Just because you know people who are
more lefty doesn't mean your right of center or even center.

2/ Freedom to post bollox like 'Holocasut denial ' - you think THAT is OK, too ?

Freedom of speech is exactly that, freedom to speak or to write. You don't have
that where you are, but in the USA we do. People can write books about denying
the Holocaust in the USA, but they can't make people read it. People in the USA
can write books about terrible things and it's protected by our first Amendment.

'Leftes' - sadly - often win debates - by gaining power in free and fair elections ..

Put on your listening head, 'Beel' .. You ain't thinking straight

There are all sorts of reasons that lefties win elections, winning debates is
rarely one of them.

[msmob]

You are a lefty, your opinions are lefty. Just because you know people who are
more lefty doesn't mean your right of center or even center.

As I said - you can 'label / call me daft 'names', as you please- but I support entrepreneurship- that's hardly 'leftie' 

Freedom of speech is exactly that, freedom to speak or to write. You don't have
that where you are, but in the USA we do. People can write books about denying
the Holocaust in the USA, but they can't make people read it. People in the USA
can write books about terrible things and it's protected by our first Amendment.

'Ri-ight'... So, do tell us why wackos like Alex Jones are having their ability post post lies removed ?  Really - bearing in mind your point ?

There are all sorts of reasons that lefties win elections, winning debates is
rarely one of them.

Wow, there was me thinking that they were trusted to govern more by the electorate - hence winning ..So do tell how Tony Blair's new Labour actually came to power ?

[Gator]

WE INTERRUPT THE OFF-TOPIC DISCUSSION TO RETURN TO THE THREAD TITLE


Yesterday Iran downed an American military drone suveilling the Straits of Hormuz.    These are not ordinary drones.  It was the size of a commercial jet and cost $153 million. 

Iran claims the drone invaded its airspace.  The US military says it was over international waters.  A response is forthcoming. 

My question:  What do you believe the US military should do in response?  Will do?


My guess:  The US will require Iran to pay for the drone and to curtail its aggressiveness.  When we downed one of Iran's commercial airplanes 30 years ago, we paid Iran in an international court for the airplane and added some compensation for the lives of Iranian citizens killed. 

[2tallbill]

So where do you draw the line?  Should NAMBLA be free to advocate for grown men to have sexual relationships with prepubescent boys?  Should racists be allowed to hold rallies advocating for violence against the "other", whoever that is?

This post was composed without the aid of google.

What do you think NAMBLA advocates? What is the purpose of their organization?
You can use Google to find out. Do I have to listen to them? No, I don't.

The ACLU came to Nambla's defense.

ACLU To Represent NAMBLA
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20000831/aponline171914_000.htm

[BillyB]

WE INTERRUPT THE OFF-TOPIC DISCUSSION TO RETURN TO THE THREAD TITLE


Yesterday Iran downed an American military drone suveilling the Straits of Hormuz.    These are not ordinary drones.  It was the size of a commercial jet and cost $153 million. 

Iran claims the drone invaded its airspace.  The US military says it was over international waters.  A response is forthcoming. 

My question:  What do you believe the US military should do in response?  Will do?

Forgive me everyone for saying something on topic. If on topic material offends you, please stop reading now.

If we crossed into Iran's airspace, Trump should do nothing. If we were in international airspace, Trump should send a few cruise missiles into Iran as punishment. In the last month, 6 tankers were sabotaged, multiple drones were shot at, Saudi Arabia was shot at with missiles. This will not end by continuing to do nothing. This should not escalate to war but something should be done.

My guess:  The US will require Iran to pay for the drone and to curtail its aggressiveness.  When we downed one of Iran's commercial airplanes 30 years ago, we paid Iran in an international court for the airplane and added some compensation for the lives of Iranian citizens killed.

Iran will not pay even if they are in the wrong. They have their story and their sticking to it. If they reverse themselves and admit they are shooting and blowing up things beyond their boundaries at sea, then it shows everybody they lied and paying the country they call Satan, is a sign of weakness and God may deny them 72 virgins for sinning.

[fathertime]

Yes, definitely a Lefty. Using words like polarization as an excuse to shut
down free speech.

The very definition of free speech is to be able to speak freely about stuff
and not only stuff that lefties agree with. Lefty Dogma only works in a
vacuum where alternative thoughts and ideas aren't allowed. That's
why lefties nearly always lose debates. Their ideas suck.

That's because commies were banned during the cold war. After the cold
war they became allowed again so the lefties want to ban conservative
speech. ESPECIALLY if they are effective speakers

So on that subject you are to the right of commies. Almost everybody is to the
right of commies. Hitler was to the right of commies but to the left of you.

I didn't bring up Alex Jones, Maxx did.

Goalpost moved, Moby swerve. You talked about winning debates causing lefties
to win elections, now you are talking about trustworthiness winning elections.
Lefties rarely win debates.

I would have to think hard about something that I care less about.

Hmmmmm.................

I care less about whether the Pope wears boxers or briefs, but I don't
care about either enough to debate with you about them.

Looks like Mobers drove Bill nuts with his posts.  Not too hard to do obviously. 

Reality is bill is a bit of a weirdo when it comes to labeling, and 'lefties'.    Rather than address a point, it is much easier for bill to just commence with the labels and pretend it is relevant. Demonizing people that are thinking of solutions that don't support the status quo or current power structure,  may not be considered 'right wing' thinking, but in many cases it is how problems get solved. 

Fathertime!   

[fathertime]

.

If we crossed into Iran's airspace, Trump should do nothing. If we were in international airspace, Trump should send a few cruise missiles into Iran as punishment. In the last month, 6 tankers were sabotaged, multiple drones were shot at, Saudi Arabia was shot at with missiles. This will not end by continuing to do nothing. This should not escalate to war but something should be done. 

I'm convinced our escalation is the problem with the whole situation.  We (The US) is upset with Iran since we are out of the loop regarding their oil profits, and their use of the Euro in lieu of the dollar isn't appreciated either, as it encouraging other nations to do the same.   All our sanctions and efforts would go away if Iran would fall in line with what the US wants.  Saudi Arabia can get away with murder in our eyes, just look at how Pompeo bent over backwards to defend them. 

Fathertime! 

[GQBlues]

Iran will not pay even if they are in the wrong. They have their story and their sticking to it. If they reverse themselves and admit they are shooting and blowing up things beyond their boundaries at sea, then it shows everybody they lied and paying the country they call Satan, is a sign of weakness and God may deny them 72 virgins for sinning.

This may seem like a matter of semantics but make a clear distinction in who carried out the decision to down the US drone. IRGC is a secular power in Iran. It doesn’t answer to Iran’s politician, president or otherwise. Centcom was very clear in their report which they repeated multiple times. They reported it was fired by the IRGC.

Trump backed off from his initial rhetorics likely because he got briefed on who fired the missile. Saying only it was a mistake by a loose and stupid general. My suspicion he already received a Farsi-accented phone call.

[Maxx2]

Quote from: 2tallbill on Today at 09:30:15 AMFreedom of speech is exactly that, freedom to speak or to write. You don't have
that where you are, but in the USA we do. People can write books about denying
the Holocaust in the USA, but they can't make people read it. People in the USA
can write books about terrible things and it's protected by our first Amendment.
'Ri-ight'... So, do tell us why wackos like Alex Jones are having their ability post post lies removed ?  Really - bearing in mind your point ?

That is the issue, for me anyways. Alex Jones is having his free speech shut down by the media giants who support political Leftists.

[BillyB]

Saudi Arabia can get away with murder in our eyes, just look at how Pompeo bent over backwards to defend them. 

I'm sure ever nation's intelligence agency murdered somebody at one time or another. Saudi Arabia got caught. Can't sanction every nation for flaws. We need Saudi Arabia to keep the peace in the Middle East, kill terrorists, and counter Iranian influence.

This may seem like a matter of semantics but make a clear distinction in who carried out the decision to down the US drone. IRGC is a secular power in Iran. It doesn’t answer to Iran’s politician, president or otherwise. Centcom was very clear in their report which they repeated multiple times. They reported it was fired by the IRGC.

Everybody, including the Iranian president, answers to a few religious fanatics. If one group is truly independent of the others, Trump should  punish the IRGC and the other groups should be left alone.

Trump backed off from his initial rhetorics likely because he got briefed on who fired the missile. Saying only it was a mistake by a loose and stupid general. My suspicion he already received a Farsi-accented phone call.

Pushing buttons and launching off missiles shouldn't be a mistake. A General is supposed to be smart enough not to make a mistake that can escalate his nation into a conflict with a major power. All of what is happening now is done on purpose. Iran stated they will close off the Strait of Hormuz last month. They stated they will defend their airspace so their officers are told to fire on intruders. They have radar and know how far flying objects are off their coast. They've shot at numerous drones of ours already. This drone just happened to be the biggest prize. 220 million taxpayer dollars down the drink. If Trump does conclude Iran made a mistake and does nothing, you can bet everything you own that Iran will make more mistakes. Mistakes will stop when mistakes cost Iran more than the mistakes are worth.

http://www.wired.com/story/iran-global-hawk-drone-surveillance/

[msmob]

Well, I woke up to shocking news..

1/ 'Beel''s' howler re Fascists ( 'lefties to him' ) was put down while I slept ... thereby rendering any definition of left / right political views from him as "a very personal viewpoint to which he is entitled"


2/ GQB  thinks the Iranians have 'apologised' for the tanker incidents ( but then shot down a drone, for good measure)  ..

Yup - the world could be going mad - and 'Trampu' ruining a Nuke deal 'O'Bama' has done with Iran - supported by the EU, RU, China et al - kicking off oil price hikes - isn't a suprise at all .....

[fathertime]

I'm sure ever nation's intelligence agency murdered somebody at one time or another. Saudi Arabia got caught. Can't sanction every nation for flaws. We need Saudi Arabia to keep the peace in the Middle East, kill terrorists, and counter Iranian influence.

Iran simply doesn't want to be forced into the US system of giving us a portion of their profits.  As is normally the case the US doesn't care about the "Iranian people", just the money.    Once these obvious facts are accepted, everything else makes sense.   

 The US economic war on Iran is a war of aggression in an effort to force Iran to bargain with us.  They haven't folded, nor does it appear they will.   Since our economic war is failing, we are potentially helping to create incidents to justify a military war, or the threat of military war.   

The US is 1000's of miles away from home, aggressively trying to stage scenes right on Iran's doorstep.  It is very clear who is being aggressive.  The leading sponsor of terrorism in the world, the USA.   Like many nations recently Iran is holding it's ground.  Trump's policy of aggression has failed in Venezuela, North Korea, and now Iran.  Many of our traditional allies aren't quite backing us like they used to, so I"m curious what is going to happen next. Generally Trump has taken the US right up to the point where it appears we are going to attack, and then found a face saving reason not to.  Attacking Iran and starting a war would be an error and be a ruinous lose/lose.

Fathertime!   

[GQBlues]

2/ GQB  thinks the Iranians have 'apologised' for the tanker incidents ( but then shot down a drone, for good measure)  ..

Hhhhmmm....chalk that up to...

http://youtu.be/ZRzOJJ74-IA

[Gator]

Yup - the world could be going mad   

So far, Trump has shown remarkable restraint.   Even more remarkable is his transparency.    The hawks are not happy.

Evidently his plan is to get Iran to the negotiating table. 

and 'Trampu' ruining a Nuke deal 'O'Bama' has done with Iran - supported by the EU, RU, China et al -   

The Nuke deal was woefully weak.    It still allowed Iran to develop a nuke in 15? years.  Meanwhile Iran is using its oil revenues (boosted initially by the $1.7 billion cash payment) to accomplish the following:


    1.   Developing long range missiles to deliver nukes

    2.   Supporting armed conflicts in several parts of the Middle East (proxy wars).

    3.   Funding a clandestine nuke program (inspections allowed by the Obama nuke deal were limited) 

    4.   Building a Shia terrorist network to be released on call around the globe.
   

kicking off oil price hikes - isn't a suprise at all .....

Wrong!  The world is awash with oil supplies mostly because of US's fracking operations.    VZ, Libya, Iran produce less and less, yet price of oil is in a long downward trend.   The decline in oil price will stabilize as it approaches the cost of production.  It could zoom if the Strait of Hormuz is closed.

[msmob]

So far, Trump has shown remarkable restraint.   

 

It's down TO him that we have this inevitabe and predicted mess

The Nuke deal was woefully weak.    It still allowed Iran to develop a nuke in 15? years.  Meanwhile Iran is using its oil revenues (boosted initially by the $1.7 billion cash payment) to accomplish the following:

Only 'Trampu' and his hawks thought so ...

The RoW don't agree and understand Iran - which you should - better.. the idea was to reward Iran comiong vack into the fold and hoping the progressive majority will undermine the Iranian hawisk conservatives ..'Trampu' is f'n up all the good works of wiser players

Wrong!  The world is awash with oil supplies mostly because of US's fracking operations.    VZ, Libya, Iran produce less and less, yet price of oil is in a long downward trend.   The decline in oil price will stabilize as it approaches the cost of production.  It could zoom if the Strait of Hormuz is closed.

Oil prices are unstable - mainly because of ...'Trampu'..

They fell due to falling demand expected rom China ..They've gone up because of the inveitable fal out of pressure on Iran's economy ..   This is 101 stuff... the USA did this to Japan in the thirties and look how THAT worked out ...

Trade Wars cause real wars

[Maxx2]

It's down TO him that we have this inevitabe and predicted mess


Only 'Trampu' and his hawks thought so ...

The RoW don't agree and understand Iran - which you should - better.. the idea was to reward Iran comiong vack into the fold and hoping the progressive majority will undermine the Iranian hawisk conservatives ..'Trampu' is f'n up all the good works of wiser players

Oil prices are unstable - mainly because of ...'Trampu'..

They fell due to falling demand expected rom China ..They've gone up because of the inveitable fal out of pressure on Iran's economy ..   This is 101 stuff... the USA did this to Japan in the thirties and look how THAT worked out ...

Trade Wars cause real wars

You play checkers while Trump plays five dimensional chess. He will go down in History as the Greatest Man of the 21st Century!   

[GQBlues]

...Everybody, including the Iranian president, answers to a few religious fanatics. If one group is truly independent of the others, Trump should  punish the IRGC and the other groups should be left alone....

Actually no, BillyB:

1) IRGC is literally a 'state within a state' as far as Iran is concerned. As a matter of fact, IRGC's military body is completely separate from Iran's military - Artesh..
2) IRGC, like Iran's political body/state answers only to a 'supreme leader'. Although most believe IRGC mostly acts on its own accord in its intent to protect Iran domestically and internationally.

... If Trump does conclude Iran made a mistake and does nothing, you can bet everything you own that Iran will make more mistakes. Mistakes will stop when mistakes cost Iran more than the mistakes are worth....

There already was a counter strike primed in 3 different locations. When Trump asked and briefed 10 minutes prior to the attack what the estimated casualty will be (150), Trump backed off and cancelled the strike. He didn't believe 150 deaths is equivalent to the lone drone.

A lot of great information here, BillyB: http://www.centcom.mil/

[msmob]

You play checkers while Trump plays five dimensional chess. He will go down in History as the Greatest Man of the 21st Century! 

 

[mhr7]

That is the issue, for me anyways. Alex Jones is having his free speech shut down by the media giants who support political Leftists.

The results of the study are consistent with the results of a similar exercise undertaken by Media Matters last year. That study, which measured engagement on the same set of pages over the previous six months, found that right-leaning pages had a nearly identical average rate of interactions with left-leaning pages. It also found that the right-leaning pages it studied earned 51 percent more total interactions than left-leaning pages.

http://www.theverge.com/interface/2019/4/11/18305407/social-network-conservative-bias-twitter-facebook-ted-cruz

Facebook is only censoring those on the fringe. Alex Jones is a complete whacko who denied that Sandy Hook ever took place. Why listen to this man? Why support him? He's scum. This has nothing to do with Leftist media giants.

[Boethius]

Hastert was a hypocrite.

Irrelevant.  He was a Republican who could have supported NAMBLA, which was your question.

BTW Boe, those were videos and not photos I posted before. I think you have no idea how degenerated your side has become.

I don't have a "side".  I am far more conservative in my personal life than any poster on this forum.  I am fiscally conservative (by Canadian standards), but socially liberal (though middle of the road by Canadian standards).