It has begun

[SlowCooker]

I've moved from lurker to RWD member to dating site member, and begun communications.  So far I'm pleasantly surprised.  My baseline was set with a few of the US-focused dating sites, where it was difficult to get any attention.

My experience, backed up by some internet skimming research, is that the man's problem is to get noticed, whereas the woman's problem is to separate the wheat from the chaff:  he attempts to contact the women who interest him, while she is bombarded with bids for attention from loser and players and scammers and a few real people.  Previously, on the aforementioned US-focused dating sites, I was only contacted by obvious desperation cases or scammers ("Give me an email address and I'll share private pictures with you!").

So far I've joined only one of the RWD-recommended monthly-fee sites, and I've been pleasantly surprised, as I said.  I've received some messages from ladies initiating contact, and I've searched the pool and sent out some feelers.  I've been ignored a time or two, but I've been sure to reply to everyone who's messaged me, reasoning that it's good manners to do so.  If I'm not interested, I just thank them for contacting me and explain that it's going to take a while to go through all my correspondence.  There have also been some that had a generic feel and either offered me an email address in the first contact, or asked me for mine, which I don't like and have let drop - too similar to what I've seen before that ended up being ungenuine.

But a couple of those initiating contact with me, and a couple of those that I've contacted, have sustained correspondence for a few exchanges.  A bit of "what are you looking for", "what is your background" and "what do you think of X", where "X" is some relationship-related topic.  It has the feel of someone genuine on the other end, which is all I had hoped for at this point.

There are no guarantees of anything - I still don't know anyone I'm corresponding with.  So far, so good, though.  The ones that didn't feel right, I let go right away, and I didn't point out to them what I felt was wrong - why help them tune their approach if they're up to no good, or if they're genuine and just not my style, maybe they're someone else's style.

So I'll continue to swap messages with these ladies to see where things go, and continue to go through the pool.  And there are other sites to expand to, also.  For those that continue to seem like good prospects, I'll plan to move to Skype, but I'm not there yet.  I think I'm going to pursue a variant of the approach options that are recommended here, which I will call WMVU, for "Write Many, Visit Ukraine".  I hope that I will have someone(s) to meet there when I go, but if the in-person meeting doesn't go well, I will still be on vacation and enjoying a new destination.

I'll try to post updates as things continue, especially if I think I've learned something.  I appreciate the information I've picked up here, and would like to return the favor as I can.

[AC]

  to the forum.

[lordtiberius]

to the forum.

What he said . . .

[Faux Pas]

Slowcooker
Good going. You've made an initial baby step on a long journey. Should you choose to see it through to the finish line, you'll likely be very glad you did. 

If you are pleased with the quantity and quality of the responses you've received from the dating site you've joined. Don't worry with joining another. You'll only muddy the water and likely miss some quality ladies.

There will generally always be some nefarious women no matter which site you join. The onus is on you to discern which is real and which isn't. Use your big head and ignore the little one.

Email addresses aren't nudie pics or sacred cows. To move the communication to a more adequate venue for communication get and send them as expeditiously as possible. Communicate with the lady a time or two on email and set up a Skype session.

If a woman has contacted you on an American based site and she is still in Russia or Ukraine that is a really big flag. Ignore those.

Good Luck

[Shadow]

Good to see you are setting the first step. Some pointers that may help you along.

1. Start preparing your schedules for future trips. How many can you make to start the relationship? Are you able to spend a longer time, can you make several short trips or are you limited to two weeks a year? Be honest, as it will determine the interest you get.
2. Plan the time you will take your first trip. If asked you should have an idea when you may be traveling, should you still be in contact by that time.
3. Be careful with long letter that touch a subect but offer little of substance. They may lead to scamming. As the women in general do not have a huge knowledge of written English, even a small letter can take them some time. If you get relative short letters that are answering your questions to the point and ask specific ones, its good. If the text is generic and may answer questions you never asked, be careful.
4. Move forward on a steady schedule. Remember that to get trusted you also need to give trust. At any time you can decide not to answer or stop communication, meaning there is very little reason to be careful as long as you do not give out credit card details. Use Skype as soon as possible, and get over your own initial discomfort. The first time it may be nerve wrecking but you wil get used to it.
5. Be realistic and as honest as possible. The women can find men who play games and lie locally.
6. Remember this is not a job search, not a holiday romance and not a guided tour. Your sole purpose of communication and of the eventual trip is to see if there is ground to pursue a relationship.
7. Forget all you read about scams and dishonesty, it will only lead you away. Trust your own gut feelings, and in doubt do some searches here. Remember that you may be corresponding with the single young woman in Ukraine not having a cellphone.

[jone]

Shadow,

I have met many young and older women and men in Ukraine.  To my recollection, NONE of them lack a cell phone.

[jone]

Especially if they are literate enough to operate a computer.

[Shadow]

Shadow,

I have met many young and older women and men in Ukraine.  To my recollection, NONE of them lack a cell phone.

That is why I mentioned it being the single one of all young women not having one 
In general the ones under 30 will have more than one, as many plans offer free calling between users of the same company meaning it can be economical to own a phone of each company.

[Faux Pas]

Shadow,

I have met many young and older women and men in Ukraine.  To my recollection, NONE of them lack a cell phone.

I know a few older Russians in Russia that do not have a cell phone. I do not know a single one, middle aged or younger that does not own one. Not to say there isn't any, just that I don't know them. Cell phones to the younger-middle aged are as important as the wardrobe

[jone]

That is why I mentioned it being the single one of all young women not having one 
In general the ones under 30 will have more than one, as many plans offer free calling between users of the same company meaning it can be economical to own a phone of each company.

ACCCCCCTUUUAALLY -

Most in Ukraine have two different phone numbers for LIFE and whatever other network they use.  But many have a SINGLE cell phone that has slots for two different network cards (or chips or whatever you want to call them).  I know this because I was bemused by a gal who was answering a phone two different ways while I was with her.  One, I found out, was her business, the other was personal.  Her business?   Scamming Western men for money.  She was very good at it.  While she spoke English perfectly, she spoke in broken English when talking to guys calling her.  (I would presume so she could hit them up for English lessons.)

[calmissile]

You are correct, many of the modern smart phones have at least dual SIM chips so that you can use multiple carriers.  In some cases in Ukriane one carrier has lousy coverage in some areas and another carrier has good coverage.

[Patagonie]

Shadow,

I have met many young and older women and men in Ukraine.  To my recollection, NONE of them lack a cell phone.

+1

[SlowCooker]

So "cell phone" has become synonymous with "smart phone"?

Thank you for the tips, please keep them coming.  I don't promise to do everything that everyone tells me to do, but I do appreciate reading the advice.

1. Start preparing your schedules for future trips. How many can you make to start the relationship? Are you able to spend a longer time, can you make several short trips or are you limited to two weeks a year? Be honest, as it will determine the interest you get.
2. Plan the time you will take your first trip. If asked you should have an idea when you may be traveling, should you still be in contact by that time.

I am targeting March for a first trip.  I have plenty of vacation time, just need to make sure things are copacetic with work.  It sucks being in a position of responsibility sometimes.  I figure that's enough time to let something develop, if it does, and I want a damned vacation, the sooner the better.


3. Be careful with long letter that touch a subect but offer little of substance. They may lead to scamming. As the women in general do not have a huge knowledge of written English, even a small letter can take them some time. If you get relative short letters that are answering your questions to the point and ask specific ones, its good. If the text is generic and may answer questions you never asked, be careful.
4. Move forward on a steady schedule. Remember that to get trusted you also need to give trust. At any time you can decide not to answer or stop communication, meaning there is very little reason to be careful as long as you do not give out credit card details. Use Skype as soon as possible, and get over your own initial discomfort. The first time it may be nerve wrecking but you wil get used to it.

There will generally always be some nefarious women no matter which site you join. The onus is on you to discern which is real and which isn't. Use your big head and ignore the little one.

Email addresses aren't nudie pics or sacred cows. To move the communication to a more adequate venue for communication get and send them as expeditiously as possible. Communicate with the lady a time or two on email and set up a Skype session.

I am applying my experience and common sense about moving forward or stopping progress.  Communication is the key, and if the communication is off in the wrong ways, I'm trusting my gut.  Initial messages that say something like "You're so handsome, give me your email and I will share my private pictures" reek to me of a generic come-on.  Sure, all I have to lose is maybe an increase in spam to that email address, but it feels wrong, and I won't proceed.

And I've learned another language as an adult (not Russian or other slavic language, unfortunately) so I am very attuned to the difficulties of communication in a non-native language.  I try to help out from my end by using short sentences, avoiding slang and contractions, and trying to choose single-meaning words when possible.

5. Be realistic and as honest as possible. The women can find men who play games and lie locally.
6. Remember this is not a job search, not a holiday romance and not a guided tour. Your sole purpose of communication and of the eventual trip is to see if there is ground to pursue a relationship.
7. Forget all you read about scams and dishonesty, it will only lead you away. Trust your own gut feelings, and in doubt do some searches here. Remember that you may be corresponding with the single young woman in Ukraine not having a cellphone.

Amen!  Well, mostly.  My trip will have the additional purpose of a vacation - I love to travel, and I haven't been further east in Europe than Budapest.  But no lying here.  I'm mindful that it might be found out at a critical juncture later on, and lead to losing someone I had begun to care about.  I want to underpromise and overdeliver, basically.

All this is happening on a RWD-recommended site, not an American-based one, so no worries with that.

It's early in the going, but already I am pleased with the difference in how things are going.  On American sites, I wasn't even given the honor of having anyone pretending to be a college-educated professional lady of appropriate age respond to my greetings, let alone contact me first.  I just want to expand my pool of ladies that I have met.  Most of them will be no-gos, naturally, either from my perspective or hers.  I had just run out of options locally (although I still keep an ear to the ground - I don't care much where she comes from, as long as she shows up in my life).

[jone]

So "cell phone" has become synonymous with "smart phone"?

Thank you for the tips, please keep them coming.  I don't promise to do everything that everyone tells me to do, but I do appreciate reading the advice.

1. Start preparing your schedules for future trips. How many can you make to start the relationship? Are you able to spend a longer time, can you make several short trips or are you limited to two weeks a year? Be honest, as it will determine the interest you get.
2. Plan the time you will take your first trip. If asked you should have an idea when you may be traveling, should you still be in contact by that time.

I am targeting March for a first trip.  I have plenty of vacation time, just need to make sure things are copacetic with work.  It sucks being in a position of responsibility sometimes.  I figure that's enough time to let something develop, if it does, and I want a damned vacation, the sooner the better.


3. Be careful with long letter that touch a subect but offer little of substance. They may lead to scamming. As the women in general do not have a huge knowledge of written English, even a small letter can take them some time. If you get relative short letters that are answering your questions to the point and ask specific ones, its good. If the text is generic and may answer questions you never asked, be careful.
4. Move forward on a steady schedule. Remember that to get trusted you also need to give trust. At any time you can decide not to answer or stop communication, meaning there is very little reason to be careful as long as you do not give out credit card details. Use Skype as soon as possible, and get over your own initial discomfort. The first time it may be nerve wrecking but you wil get used to it.

There will generally always be some nefarious women no matter which site you join. The onus is on you to discern which is real and which isn't. Use your big head and ignore the little one.

Email addresses aren't nudie pics or sacred cows. To move the communication to a more adequate venue for communication get and send them as expeditiously as possible. Communicate with the lady a time or two on email and set up a Skype session.

I am applying my experience and common sense about moving forward or stopping progress.  Communication is the key, and if the communication is off in the wrong ways, I'm trusting my gut.  Initial messages that say something like "You're so handsome, give me your email and I will share my private pictures" reek to me of a generic come-on.  Sure, all I have to lose is maybe an increase in spam to that email address, but it feels wrong, and I won't proceed.

And I've learned another language as an adult (not Russian or other slavic language, unfortunately) so I am very attuned to the difficulties of communication in a non-native language.  I try to help out from my end by using short sentences, avoiding slang and contractions, and trying to choose single-meaning words when possible.

5. Be realistic and as honest as possible. The women can find men who play games and lie locally.
6. Remember this is not a job search, not a holiday romance and not a guided tour. Your sole purpose of communication and of the eventual trip is to see if there is ground to pursue a relationship.
7. Forget all you read about scams and dishonesty, it will only lead you away. Trust your own gut feelings, and in doubt do some searches here. Remember that you may be corresponding with the single young woman in Ukraine not having a cellphone.

Amen!  Well, mostly.  My trip will have the additional purpose of a vacation - I love to travel, and I haven't been further east in Europe than Budapest.  But no lying here.  I'm mindful that it might be found out at a critical juncture later on, and lead to losing someone I had begun to care about.  I want to underpromise and overdeliver, basically.

All this is happening on a RWD-recommended site, not an American-based one, so no worries with that.

It's early in the going, but already I am pleased with the difference in how things are going.  On American sites, I wasn't even given the honor of having anyone pretending to be a college-educated professional lady of appropriate age respond to my greetings, let alone contact me first.  I just want to expand my pool of ladies that I have met.  Most of them will be no-gos, naturally, either from my perspective or hers.  I had just run out of options locally (although I still keep an ear to the ground - I don't care much where she comes from, as long as she shows up in my life).

I like what Shadow says about constantly moving forward.  But, the thought also promotes itself not to make this a months long proposition.  We used to say that if you are speaking to someone more than a month before seeing them that things can go stale even before the visit.  I think with Skype the relationship can draw itself out a little further.

[Faux Pas]

Slow Cooker

The reason I started looking to the East to begin with was because a scammer contacted me on American Singles. I think that was the name of the site. I bought it hook line and sinker. Fortunately for me I am either too slick or tight fisted with a dollar myself to send her any. I actually owe that scammer a debt of gratitude. Who knows, I may never have found my wife if that scammer hadn't contacted me.

I did okay as far as numbers and dates on the American date sites but many of the women were just nothing that I was interested in. I had just about given up using online dating completely when I decided, "what the hell", I could travel to Russia if I wanted to. Then I started looking for a site to help assist in contacting some Russian/Ukrainian ladies. I found a few dud sites and wasted some money on them although, they were helpful in me getting my feet wet as far as communicating went.

My point here; there are learning curves in just about anything to do with this endeavor, even the negatives. Don't take anything at this stage in the process to seriously and develop some thick skin and you'll be fine.

BTW, there is no RWD sites for meeting or communicating with women. There are a number of sites that are recommended by members but, not the forum itself.

[SlowCooker]

Slow Cooker

The reason I started looking to the East to begin with was because a scammer contacted me on American Singles. I think that was the name of the site. I bought it hook line and sinker. Fortunately for me I am either too slick or tight fisted with a dollar myself to send her any. I actually owe that scammer a debt of gratitude. Who knows, I may never have found my wife if that scammer hadn't contacted me.

I did okay as far as numbers and dates on the American date sites but many of the women were just nothing that I was interested in. I had just about given up using online dating completely when I decided, "what the hell", I could travel to Russia if I wanted to. Then I started looking for a site to help assist in contacting some Russian/Ukrainian ladies. I found a few dud sites and wasted some money on them although, they were helpful in me getting my feet wet as far as communicating went.

My point here; there are learning curves in just about anything to do with this endeavor, even the negatives. Don't take anything at this stage in the process to seriously and develop some thick skin and you'll be fine.

BTW, there is no RWD sites for meeting or communicating with women. There are a number of sites that are recommended by members but, not the forum itself.

I meant to say RWD-recommended, from ML's thread with info for beginners:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0

I agree, just learning now, although I am not going to write off anyone I am communicating with now just because I still have my training wheels attached.  I'll see how it goes.  And I suppose that everyone's timeline is different, but it takes me a little while to get going, and I expect that will be OK with a compatible lady - she probably will, too.  Let the hair-trigger people match up among themselves. 

As I've tried to say before, all I'm wanting out of this is exposure to more of the kind of lady I'm looking for, and I'm pleased with what I see out of the gate.  It's OK with me if the ones where our communication styles or timetables don't mesh drop from sight.

[JayH]

Commenting on phones and internet access---
* not all have smart phones
* not all have easy internet access
* not all have their own computers
*not all are able to communicate at any hour
* not all are out to scam
Much of what is said above is good advice-- but being paranoid of details will not help.
As an example-- phones get damaged/lost etc and are often not able to be  replaced overnight.
Internet access in some places can still be difficult--reception in some areas not always there.It can happen!
Currently--the power is being restricted intermittently in Ukraine and interrupting communications.
Most want a smart phone--but not all have them--but the % would be increasing everyday-the younger they are-the higher priority it will have in their life.
Being too aware of being scammed will not help you-- a lot of things happen that can be misunderstood.

btw-- on phones and sim cards--I have a phone that carries 4 sim cards--plus my smart phone that carries 2 sims !!

There are some gems in the advice above--Faux Pas makes the point about a "learning curve" that I 100% agree with.Your first trip should be aimed at learning as much as you can-getting the feel of the culture and people etc, You may meet a lady first up--but I always wonder about guys who do that. If you read the forum recently-- we have seen marriages of guys 4-8 years in the process- so immediate success is not guaranteed. You can move to slowly-that is true-- but you can also move too fast!!There is no formula.

[AC]

My only advice is save your money and go to Hawaii or some other warm place with lots of beaches and plenty of horny women.  It's easy to get lei'd there and the money you save you can put in the bank.   




PS...here's a link about internet dating by one of our funnier married members.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3459.0

[jone]

Slow Cooker

The reason I started looking to the East to begin with was because a scammer contacted me on American Singles. I think that was the name of the site. I bought it hook line and sinker. Fortunately for me I am either too slick or tight fisted with a dollar myself to send her any. I actually owe that scammer a debt of gratitude. Who knows, I may never have found my wife if that scammer hadn't contacted me.

I did okay as far as numbers and dates on the American date sites but many of the women were just nothing that I was interested in. I had just about given up using online dating completely when I decided, "what the hell", I could travel to Russia if I wanted to. Then I started looking for a site to help assist in contacting some Russian/Ukrainian ladies. I found a few dud sites and wasted some money on them although, they were helpful in me getting my feet wet as far as communicating went.

My point here; there are learning curves in just about anything to do with this endeavor, even the negatives. Don't take anything at this stage in the process to seriously and develop some thick skin and you'll be fine.

BTW, there is no RWD sites for meeting or communicating with women. There are a number of sites that are recommended by members but, not the forum itself.

I thought you said that if we don't got to 'Planet Love Match' we'd never find our mate?  Oh, that must have been another forum. 

Sorry.  My bad.

[SlowCooker]

Commenting on phones and internet access---
* not all have smart phones
* not all have easy internet access
* not all have their own computers
*not all are able to communicate at any hour
* not all are out to scam
Much of what is said above is good advice-- but being paranoid of details will not help.
As an example-- phones get damaged/lost etc and are often not able to be  replaced overnight.
Internet access in some places can still be difficult--reception in some areas not always there.It can happen!
Currently--the power is being restricted intermittently in Ukraine and interrupting communications.
Most want a smart phone--but not all have them--but the % would be increasing everyday-the younger they are-the higher priority it will have in their life.
Being too aware of being scammed will not help you-- a lot of things happen that can be misunderstood.

btw-- on phones and sim cards--I have a phone that carries 4 sim cards--plus my smart phone that carries 2 sims !!

There are some gems in the advice above--Faux Pas makes the point about a "learning curve" that I 100% agree with.Your first trip should be aimed at learning as much as you can-getting the feel of the culture and people etc, You may meet a lady first up--but I always wonder about guys who do that. If you read the forum recently-- we have seen marriages of guys 4-8 years in the process- so immediate success is not guaranteed. You can move to slowly-that is true-- but you can also move too fast!!There is no formula.

Right, no formula.  This forum's members have a lot of strongly-held, diametrically-opposed viewpoints, from what I've been able to tell.  I'll cut my own trail, bearing in mind the experiences of others; your mileage may vary, etc.

And I want to emphasize that I'm not paranoid about scammers.  I only recognize that they're out there, and I don't want to waste my time, with them or with genuine ladies who are not what I'm looking for.  The anonymity of the internet empowers scammers, and they tend to congregate in areas where people's feelings are involved.  Think about it - if you're in the market for a can of beans, you can find one at a competitive price at any grocery or convenience store.  One is about like the other, and no one tries to rip you off.  But if you're looking for an original edition of the book you loved as a kid, there generally aren't many around and the folks offering them know that you're probably emotionally invested in finding it, and therefore are ripe for manipulation, if they're so inclined.  So it's best to be aware.

The above bean analogy is not to be misconstrued as an argument in favor of prostitution.   

[Faux Pas]

I thought you said that if we don't got to 'Planet Love Match' we'd never find our mate?  Oh, that must have been another forum. 

Sorry.  My bad.

That wasn't me my bruddah. My advice would be to forget marriage/intro/dating sites altogether and just go  But, they are helpful to the beginner. You don't know what you don't know, ya'know?

[RoboCop]

Good luck SlowCooker, may the force be with you.

The only thing I can add to the thread that hasn't already been said, is to not get deterred or upset when you have seemed to establish a rapport with a girl, and she suddenly stops communicating with you. Most girls are corresponding with a a few guys that they like, and usually it's the first guy who packs his bags and plans for a trip oversea's that has the biggest chance of winning them over. (Granted the lady is genuine and not a scammer.)

Happened with a girl I was communicating with from Donetsk, all of a sudden she stopped sending me emails and messages on viber, several months later I see a testimony of her with some New Zealand guy on the dating website.

[RoboCop]

That wasn't me my bruddah. My advice would be to forget marriage/intro/dating sites altogether and just go  But, they are helpful to the beginner. You don't know what you don't know, ya'know?

My own personal experience validates this. Don't spend too much time on the forums, especially if you're one of those guys inclined to suffer from decisional paralysis. The best thing you can do is get your visa, pack your bags and fly off to meet her. Theories and anecdotes about FSU women have their place, but action takes precedence.

I wasn't even aware of forums like this before I met my wife, I reckon if I did I would have over-analysed things and risk losing her to the Irish dude she was communicating with.

Another word of advice is to use a wide range of photos that show the "real" you. Not only ones taken from hail Mary angles that make you look 30 pounds lighter than what you really are.   

[SlowCooker]

Good luck SlowCooker, may the force be with you.

The only thing I can add to the thread that hasn't already been said, is to not get deterred or upset when you have seemed to establish a rapport with a girl, and she suddenly stops communicating with you. Most girls are corresponding with a a few guys that they like, and usually it's the first guy who packs his bags and plans for a trip oversea's that has the biggest chance of winning them over. (Granted the lady is genuine and not a scammer.)

Happened with a girl I was communicating with from Donetsk, all of a sudden she stopped sending me emails and messages on viber, several months later I see a testimony of her with some New Zealand guy on the dating website.

Good stuff, RoboCop, thanks.  It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings.

I scan resources (including RWD) for useful info, but I make my own decisions, and I consider the source.  There is a variety of experience and opinion here, which is good for drawing out multiple aspects of any given issue, but certainly not nearly all of it is going to be something that I will adopt for myself.

Things certainly would be easier if each woman on earth wasn't one of a kind.  Not better, just easier.

[jone]

Slowcooker,

It's easier if you just understand the mind of a woman.  It is an easy thing, really.  No, really, No.  Really!