$1250 cash to meet me????

[mies]

if you routinely pick women with large age difference - aren't you supposed to pay more for the pleasure of having young flesh?
also - isn't it an indication that you like high risks?

on the topic of your question: e-tickets work everywhere where there is an airport. In some not very developed towns in FSU - there is a more complicated procedure of using an e-ticket - you cannot just come to the airport register point and show the printout of the ticket - you have to go to the avia-company office, show printout, they check their computers and print regular ticket for you. But it's also doable - only requires more effort.

You can always write to A "утром деньги - вечером стулья, вечером деньги - утром стулья"  or "может Вам еще ключ от квартиры дать где деньги лежат?" or "Вы довольно пошлый человек - Вы любите деньги больше чем надо" - I'm sure she will appreciate your knowledge of russian literature and your sense of humor.

[mies]

Rambler: 2 weeks will be a lot worse than 3 days, if you and this girl do not hit it off.

HiTech

based on the confidence of Rambler - he is sure that he will hit it off with this girl with a good "bang for buck" ratio.
I'm wondering whether the girl who is visiting is aware of the particularities of this arrangement.

no kidding huh.. imagine being stuck in Nice with someone you despise who is also depending on you to support her financially.  Or worse yet.. what if you like her and she can't stomach you but is pretty much stuck since you brought her there..

Sculpto - do not worry. In the first case Rambler can always do "Вот тебе Бог, а вот - порог"
in second case (if girl refuses to have bang with him) - he can always use the magic tools for persuasion. If persuasion does not work - iterate to the response #1.
*Something* tells me he won't be musing too much over picking methods to get a "good ratio".

[rambler]

Hi everyone,
Not one positive comment... so let's balance this out a bit.  It's not quite as bad as it might at first seem.  

If you are in the USA or the UK, you more or less have to travel 9/10ths of the way to meet your girl because of the Visa situation.

If you are based in Europe the game plan changes. Why do I want to spend money on hotel bills and restaurants in the girls home town, or a 3rd location when my home is right there where I want it, in one of the best locations she or I could dream of, the Cote d'Azur? I have 2500 sq m of private garden and private pool and 200 sq m of home. Do I have a better shot at wooing her in Donetsk or Odessa? I don't think so. If I woo her, then sure, I'll go meet her family and learn more about her culture. But I think most girls would be very happy to see their potential new home and surrounding countryside at the earliest opportunity.  

It might cost me a few more Euro in groceries and maybe an upgrade on the wine bill instead of paying 100 to 200 Euro a day on food and maybe 100 to 300 on hotels. Plus I am 10km away from the shops and not right next to them on the Champs Elysee...  

The flight and two weeks hotel come with the deal. That's how they get EU Visas here, by booking an all inclusive tour.  Same way you get a visa to Russia. You book a hotel or you get a personal invitation visa which is far more trouble.

So even WITH back up accommodation the costs are about 2/3 rds of what A was asking for just for transport for 3 days together, never mind hotels and meals. So no worries about her not having a get out clause.  Plus air fare is cheap if she really wants to flee. 2 days Vs 2 weeks for less money, more privacy and total control of my surroundings and on my own home turf. i know every good beach, the restaurants, the scenic drives ...

On the website suggested (Not Elena's) there are 15,000 girls looking for partners and /or looking for travel companions for a holiday. There are 12500 guys willing to pay all the expenses and more guys and some girls willing to share expenses. are they all saying kick my ass? Nope.  If they had a girlfriend and they are a gentleman they'y be paying her way anyway because they wanted to.

There is an option for the girls to say what their attitude is to the possibility of intimacy on the holiday if they hit it off. They can say definitely no way or possibly.  To me that honesty is better than thousands of pro-daters and travellers posing as potential fiancees on supposedly marriage oriented web-sites. Times they are achangin ...

London, Paris and New York are overflowing with native pro-daters. We call them high maintenance, but when it's FSU women and USA / European men, all of a sudden they are called scammers?

R
www.digilume.com

[groovlstk]

Do I have a better shot at wooing her in Donetsk or Odessa? I don't think so. If I woo her, then sure, I'll go meet her family and learn more about her culture. But I think most girls would be very happy to see their potential new home and surrounding countryside at the earliest opportunity.

This is so foolish on so many levels that I'm speechless.

Rambler, is an attractive and comfortable lifestyle all you have to market to women? Where do YOU fit in the equation? You're begging to be used this way, you'd have a better chance of success if you picked out a random face on the metro and offered her a million dollars to marry you. 

[BillyB]

Rambler,
  Are you paying for this woman's trip? If so, what's the difference between her compared to the lady at the start of this thread who needed money to meet you at a neutral location? They both need traveling expenses.

One reason I recommend guys meeting women in their hometown is because sooner or later you need to meet the parents so why not see them now and see your lady in her own environment? She also may be a biatch so if she is, best not reward her with a nice, all expense paid trip.

Come back and let us know how things work out with your current lady. I hope you're not doing this so quickly based off an emotional reaction from your previous experience with the lady who asked for $1250. Everything is happening so fast you may not make a good judgement evaluating your current lady.

[mies]

i think you are reasonable Rambler - especially in the part where you speak of controlled environment, and girls knowing they are open for the intimacy option if they come to visit you. I do not agree that this is foolish approach if you want to have a good time, and potentially attract a young "high maintenance" girl.

[mies]

Rambler,
  Are you paying for this woman's trip? If so, what's the difference between her compared to the lady at the start of this thread who needed money to meet you at a neutral location? They both need traveling expenses.

the difference is that first lady most likely will take $1250 and never show up, while Rambler will spend additional money and his time to get to a location where he'll be alone.
In the second case - he will send e-tickets to a girl, and will have her in a "controlled environment" of his house - for 2 weeks instead of 3 days, with much higher possibility of a good bang. I think he'd chosen the proper strategy.

[Sculpto]

the difference is that first lady most likely will take $1250 and never show up, while Rambler will spend additional money and his time to get to a location where he'll be alone.
In the second case - he will send e-tickets to a girl, and will have her in a "controlled environment" of his house - for 2 weeks instead of 3 days, with much higher possibility of a good bang. I think he'd chosen the proper strategy.

Just a question.. this is not a judgement at all.. but.. if you are going to do this.. why not just find a beautiful French girl.. or a Brit.. why go to the FSU for this sort of arrangement?

[mies]

Just a question.. this is not a judgement at all.. but.. if you are going to do this.. why not just find a beautiful French girl.. or a Brit.. why go to the FSU for this sort of arrangement?

why not? Are russian girls so much worse than beautiful french or british girls that meeting a russian girl is an act of desperation in itself?

[BillyB]

the difference is that first lady most likely will take $1250 and never show up,

How do you know that? It's been 5 days since Rambler broke up with the $1250 lady. How is he going to know the motivations of the new lady in a short time? Sometimes us men get reckless when breaking up with a lady. We may go out and find the quickest easiest woman for a fling or pay for a woman. We aren't always in our right mind during these times.

The$1250 lady lives in Stavropol and Turkey isn't the best place for a romantic vacation. The woman is hot and can command guys to take her to Paris if she wishes. A scammer would also recommend a more expensive place to scam more money. I believe Rambler was writing a real woman who would show up but I also believe she is spoiled. In some ways I understand why she doesn't want men to come to her hometown for a first visit. If there's a type of woman who be stalked by the wackos on the internet, it's her type.

[Sculpto]

why not? Are russian girls so much worse than beautiful french or british girls that meeting a russian girl is an act of desperation in itself?

On the contrary Mies.. but before I state why I posed the question I would prefer to let the OP answer.  Fair?

[mies]

How do you know that? It's been 5 days since Rambler broke up with the $1250 lady. How is he going to know the motivations of the new lady in a short time? Sometimes us men get reckless when breaking up with a lady. We may go out and find the quickest easiest woman for a fling or pay for a woman. We aren't always in our right mind during these times.

The$1250 lady lives in Stavropol and Turkey isn't the best place for a romantic vacation. The woman is hot and can command guys to take her to Paris if she wishes. A scammer would also recommend a more expensive place to scam more money. I believe Rambler was writing a real woman who would show up but I also believe she is spoiled. In some ways I understand why she doesn't want men to come to her hometown for a first visit. If there's a type of woman who be stalked by the wackos on the internet, it's her type.

he does not need to know the motivation of a new lady - he does not give her money, that's it. And she can't exchange the e-ticket for money.

i don't see what's so real in developing over-complicated scheme for a simple meeting. People agree for bad conditions if they aren't going to follow those conditions anyway. Hence - it makes perfect sense for me that woman agrees to go to not-so-good place in Turkey if she isn't going to go there at all - she just wants to get real money - 1250.
A scammer would request for as much money as she can realistically get. Very few scammers would be requesting $10'000 for a trip, but many scammers request 936$ for visa and ticket to JFK, if you see my point. 10K seems hilarious for a request - nobody would eagerly give these money, 936 seems quite reasonable, though a bit on a pricey side.

There are  plenty of hot women, if all of them can command guys to take them to Paris - i bet Parisian hotels should pay those women some "agent fee" % - for making major share of hotels' profits. But that isn't happening. Which leads us to conclusion that hot appearance isn't enough to command guys to pay for trips to Paris.   

[bobb]

Or am I just bitter and twisted after just 6 months looking!?

Sorry for my late reply to your first post.  I was disappointed after two years, several years ago, but that was as much my fault as anything.  I don't believe there is any quick way to meet a future wife and have it last - for most.  Especially right out of the gate.  Maybe if I had experienced what you have, although I don't know what that is, I would be bitter also - anything is possible.

As always we do not know all the facts.  Even if we did you would get a wide variety of advice.  Every man's experience is different and only you can decide what advice to listen to and what to ignore.

[rambler]

Thank you all, valid and helpful comments and questions.

I will answer some  points raised but at the moment I am working on the logistics of a meeting in Nice with the lady who is in the Ukraine and I am in London. Target meeting date is 11th or 15th August. .. sooooo getting a bit busy ...  
One quick point though .. why is anyone looking for a FSU woman instead of in their own back yard? Demographics! And I want to father a child and maybe adopt 'hers" if she already has a young baby --OK OK I know ...  another thread for that one....  so age range is likely to be up to what..35- 40 max.. The minimum age ... Well that's another thread too !!!!  

Mies, I have PM d you asking for some practical help or pointers ....

R

PS I think the 1 st young lady would have arrived but ... lots of buts so no go! I wouldn't say it was a break up because we never met but we tried. Who knows with a bit of compromise maybe we still will.  She plays chess with men...or backgammon too .. it's the endgame that counts. If I relate the above example to her -
she might modify her position, but she'd hang up the phone and create about it. Not that that is in my plan; but if I was more Machiavellian ... ; >) ... I mean I know she will see several guys before she makes a selection, she is systematic...  so there is time .. and so will the Ukranian gal  ... who is 5 years younger than A BTW ... I know I know  .... but ... 

[Aloe]

There are  plenty of hot women, if all of them can command guys to take them to Paris - i bet Parisian hotels should pay those women some "agent fee" % - for making major share of hotels' profits. But that isn't happening. Which leads us to conclusion that hot appearance isn't enough to command guys to pay for trips to Paris.   

No, that leads us to conclusion that hot appearances prefer other destinations than paris. You underestimate the power a young hot thing has on many men

[groovlstk]

And I want to father a child and maybe adopt 'hers" if she already has a young baby --OK OK I know ...  another thread for that one....  so age range is likely to be up to what..35- 40 max.. The minimum age ... Well that's another thread too !!!!

Rambler, you've dodged this question several times: how old are you?

[mies]

No, that leads us to conclusion that hot appearances prefer other destinations than paris. You underestimate the power a young hot thing has on many men

i know many hot things personally, and I assure you - not all of them have power over men's minds. so it's not only about hottt...ness

[rambler]

Thank you all for your words urging caution and restraint.
You are right I am wrong. It is my Modus Operandi to blame; so that has got to change.

The Internet Profile for the second girl says she is in Donetsk
Her IP address resolves to Mobile bla bla Kiev
The bank instructions of her "Travel Agent" say Kiev he wants "Only" 455 EUR
His IP address resolves to dial up Odessa ! Even though she did send a photo holding up 3 fingers .... I cannot prove who she or he is so far.

I fold ...  If it sounds too good to be true - it is too good be true.

http://whatismyipaddress.com/staticpages/index.php/trace-email-source-IP-address

Just paste in the email header to see where it comes from. 

In Gmail the headers can be found by clicking on the reply button and selecting "show original"  Just paste that text into the box provided in the above link
Especially useful if get tells you she is away in Siberia visiting her sick granny and it actually comes from Barcelona!


R

[BillyB]

If a woman wants to meet a stranger in a strange land after only a few days of communication, then she needs to have her head examined by a professional or she/he is a scammer. Slow down Rambler because at the speeds you're going, you're going to get in a wreck. Unless you got luck, it's going to take time to find and court a good woman in your life.

[Ranetka]

Thank you all for your words urging caution and restraint.
You are right I am wrong. It is my Modus Operandi to blame; so that has got to change.

The Internet Profile for the second girl says she is in Donetsk
Her IP address resolves to Mobile bla bla Kiev
The bank instructions of her "Travel Agent" say Kiev he wants "Only" 455 EUR
His IP address resolves to dial up Odessa ! Even though she did send a photo holding up 3 fingers .... I cannot prove who she or he is so far.

I fold ...  If it sounds too good to be true - it is too good be true.

http://whatismyipaddress.com/staticpages/index.php/trace-email-source-IP-address

Just paste in the email header to see where it comes from. 

In Gmail the headers can be found by clicking on the reply button and selecting "show original"  Just paste that text into the box provided in the above link
Especially useful if get tells you she is away in Siberia visiting her sick granny and it actually comes from Barcelona!


R

I Have checked my email address. Whay can I say,, the country is correct, the city is TOTALLY WRONG. I mean not even close. Be aware when check girls.

[Sculpto]

when checking IP addresses you must find the "originating ip".  There will be several different IP addresses in the header that trace the routing of the message across the interweb.  However, I have noticed lately that gmail and yahoo addresses are becoming harder to verify the originating.  The scammers are getting smarter also, switching from russian isp to yahoo and gmail.  At this stage, I just assume if it is a gmail especially, it is leaning towards a scammer address.  also, just put the ip into google and search it alone.  You will be shocked what you can discover that way.  Good Ips NEVER come up with any links to scam or spam sites.  And, even when you think you have found someone good, you need to keep checking during the duration of the correspondence.  One of my scammers was smart enough to know all this, was using seperate email addresses but after a couple of months it was the google IP search that broke the case and within a week she had dropped the money bomb, under a dozen different but similar email addys on at least that many men who started posting and asking questions at the same time.  Even right up until the end, her email addy came up clean, but, the IP google search turned up all the other addys she was using and all the complaints, all within a week. 

Rambler, if the lady is in Donetsk I can have her verified.  PM me for more info.

However.. I think you are trying to take shortcuts that are going to lead you no where.  You say you live in London, well, how many Russians live in London now?  getting close to half a million!

http://www.easterneuropeans.co.uk/?page=56&article=50

So, again, I ask you, why are you trying to do what you are trying to do the way you are trying to do it?  Please do not take this comment the wrong way, but, I think you have read to many agency sites and you have some ideas in your head that may not be truths.  I do not buy into the demographics argument.  I think its agency BS that makes WM think that way.  And, I am not trying to be high and mighty, I got sucked in also and it took a wasted and miserable trip to Ukraine to wake up to reality.

You have the money, just get on the plane and go.  Odessa this time of year is fantastic, as a member writing another thread can attest.  Kazantip is coming up if it hasn't already started, there is so much going on, the ladies are barely dressed!  Don't be lazy, just do it and quit trying to be slick and beat the system. 

You need to court and woo the lady and be a gentleman and I suggest you would be much better off doing that with your charm than your wallet.

[mies]

Kazantip? For Rambler???
Sculpto, tell me you aren't serious  

If Rambler lives in London, he might just as well go to one of Hackney warehouses. Minus sea - same result: skinny, freaky, high teenagers  
Plus, there is no shortage of 20yo muscular and heterosexual sky-divers in Kazantip - in case girls came there for good time. However not too many prostitutes and 0 (or in decimals) of pro-daters. Not to mention that regular drug intake reduces sex drive, and coming to Kazantip for prostitutes is too long way - since prostitutes there aren't local and came there to accommodate the demands of infrequent foreign tourists.

[Aloe]

when checking IP addresses you must find the "originating ip".  There will be several different IP addresses in the header that trace the routing of the message across the interweb.  However, I have noticed lately that gmail and yahoo addresses are becoming harder to verify the originating.  The scammers are getting smarter also, switching from russian isp to yahoo and gmail.  At this stage, I just assume if it is a gmail especially, it is leaning towards a scammer address.  also, just put the ip into google and search it alone.  You will be shocked what you can discover that way.  Good Ips NEVER come up with any links to scam or spam sites.  And, even when you think you have found someone good, you need to keep checking during the duration of the correspondence.  One of my scammers was smart enough to know all this, was using seperate email addresses but after a couple of months it was the google IP search that broke the case and within a week she had dropped the money bomb, under a dozen different but similar email addys on at least that many men who started posting and asking questions at the same time.  Even right up until the end, her email addy came up clean, but, the IP google search turned up all the other addys she was using and all the complaints, all within a week. 

How can they switch from a russian isp to yahoo and gmail if they live in russia, and yahoo/gmail are not isp's? ISP stands for internet service provider, in case you are wondering  
What about ISPs with dynamic IP addresses? As far as i know, majority of ISPs in Moscow (dont know about other cities) provide dynamic IPs, and to get a static ip address you must pay extra money every month, so every time you connect to the internet with a dynamic ip, you get assigned a random ip within the range of this ISP, so who is to say a genuine girl and a scammer cant use the same ISP and get assigned the same IP in different sessions? So condemnding someone just cuz their ip shows up as some scammer ip is not smart imo

[rambler]

Well - Interesting development - from $1250 down to Zero - "A"  will be there on business and ...  
So should I stay or should I go now? as the song says ..  hmmmmm....  

The Russian girls in London - ain't in London Now - It's August and they are in Russia or on the beach! But you are right - Odessa will be buzzing now ----
R

[Ade]

Well - Interesting development - from $1250 down to Zero - "A"  will be there on business and ...  someone else must be paying for her expenses - just didn't want it to be me cos I could see it coming that there might be more than 1 guy met on consecutive days in the same city and even maybe more than one guy paying for the same air\taxi ticket. Still just 2-3 days offered though ...
So should I stay or should I go now? as the song says ..  hmmmmm.... 

The Russian girls in London - ain't in London Now - It's August and they are in Russia or on the beach! But you are right - Odessa will be buzzing now ----
R

This sort of turns the tables on the WMVM male crowd if she is seeing a bunch of guys while she's there "on business" - isn't that the excuse Sculpto says should be used if asked by one of the VM women?

Personally, I think if you're a WMVM type of guy, you'd be a hypocrite to criticise her for doing the same...