New dating search Specification & what I've Learned

[Trenchcoat]

Ok this is the new search specification as a result of what I learned from Odessa/Nikolaev Trip, above all of course I will be skyping until certain of girl, I will update as I go along as may not think of everything at once.

Looking For:

1). Chemistry - using Skype to establish this as much and as far as possible, decisions based on degree of chemistry possibly obtainable over Skype and number of girls I visit will be based on this. No possible chemistry with any girl = no visit.

2). A girl in her thirties - at least for online dating search, if I met a younger girl while out there on the hoof fine if chemistry was there and she was willing to commit, but for Online search I want a girl that is serious and not messing around. I'm not willing to search through a load of girls in their twenties in the hope of finding the odd few that are serious. Girls in their thirties are mostly serious about getting someone fast at that age if they want much chance of a family at all, so same goals as myself.

3). A girl with a high command of English - if a girls turns up with chemistry that is not great English but is really into me while out there fine, but as far the online search goes, no to girls without a high command of English. Not due to just wanting a simple path but I discovered while out there that girls that spoke good English were far easier to gel with on a personal/emotional level. They were open and accepting of English culture, not hostile or non-concerned, they had shown an active commitment and effort to wanting to be with English people/an English guy. Also, they sound just so lovely when speaking English, soft, smooth and rhythmical, far, far better than their native tongue which can be quite guttural.

4). A girl from an 'Airport City' in FSU which flights from abroad go to (does not have to be direct but helpful if it does). More chance of meeting a girl with a high command of English in these cities and less time wasted on travel/visiting her home city or her visiting me in airport city and having to pay extra accommodation & travel costs. Travelling to non-airport cities a major pain, travelling inconvenience, risk, and extra planning and time taken and to an extent cost as hotel or apartment rooms may have to be overlapped a little to ensure accommodation is there when you get there.

5). A girl without children - this is still on the list and remains so - if anything my experience in Odessa/Nikolaev has convinced me further that taking on a child is a big ordeal both mentally and culturally. They basically run around very much part of the language/culture and are attached to the mother, it would be a difficulty for all concerned and perhaps not fair on the kid. Again if a girl turned up on the hoof while out there with one and we all got on so well, chemistry, etc then maybe but it is not something I would be going out there to take on or searching for.


These I believe are realistic expectations that will give me a greater chance of realistic results in finding a FSW that is into me, can form a serious committed relationship and avoid non-serious girls and of course hopefully chemistry along the way. As a result of my Odessa/Nikolaev trip I have learned to avoid:


- Going too much on the photo of the girl which whether professional, photoshopped or natural often does not show what the girl is like in meeting or if there would be any chemistry present. Hence just to take photos are a rough indication and rely on skype more for the rest.

- Girls that are odd/demanding in their emails, that don't wish to skype. Just adds to stress when seeing them on top of cultural stress if region isn't very English speaking. Girls that are taking the search serious I think shouldn't be arbitrary in there responses to you and this girl to an extent was which made me wonder what type of girl she was - ok in talking to as it turned out but a bit odd going on upstairs I wonder, but not a good choice to follow through on.

- Ask girl to sit close to Skype cam before Skype session (this one I learned after Kiev trip).

- Girls without a high command of English - her English was good but not fluent - The less fluent a girls English the more difficulty bridging the void and the less generally they were into English men I think.

- Non/Low English speaking areas - I know a few pigeon words & phrases off Russian, some which could be understood by locals some not. Generally though travelling out to these areas is risky, you could end up anywhere in a worse case scenario situation - there are I dare say areas more remote than Nikolaev that are void of English speakers, lol. Much time and effort can be wasted by travelling out to these areas which could be spent on more fruitful encounters in an airport city. Nikolaev was interesting to visit mind for me architecturally and to see the industry scene of girls parading up & down Nikolaev high street so experience gained was insightful and worthwhile in that respect, not just of girl perving 


What I learned:

- Skype  above all else as you guys rightly pointed out before visiting, otherwise its just a random pot shot that will almost certainly fail. Also to get girl sitting close to cam on skype to increase chances of discovering if there is chemistry.

- Due Diligence extends into Skype and checking there is Chemistry, not just on her background on VK or whatever, which I do of course before visiting.

- Luggage (yes my luggage got 'delayed' - I will trip report in next few days when I can on this) - so using a carry on small suitcase the way to go as if no clothing arrives at all then it is pointless taking larger suitcases, better some clothing than none at all and having to go out buying some. This was a major bad start to the trip, I got reunited with my luggage after a day but it still caused unwanted/unneeded disarray/start to my trip that I would much have rather done without. In any case I never quite get to use all the clothing for a one week trip anyway. So silly to risk messing up a meeting because of this, though of course this was sorted in time in this case.

- I liked changing hotels mid way through (three different ones in this trip) but usually if I do do hotel I will stick to two in the same city (I never fully unpack either). This gives a different feel so it does not get boring and of course different hotel/restaurant staff, ahem, girls  or perhaps a hotel for first half the week then an apartment for the other half as a compromise, then both bases are covered.

- English speaking girls are the best to communicate with in general in terms of smooth feedback and disposition towards me as a WM.


That is about it, I will update and amend as I go but feel in a far better position to carry on this search having learned from this trip and of course your advice guys, many thanks for all of that it really is greatly appreciated     

[Boethius]

A girl from an 'Airport City' in FSU which flights from abroad go to (does not have to be direct but helpful if it does) Again, shows commitment of girl if she has moved to city so she can meet WM legitimately. More chance of meeting a girl with a high command of English in these cities and less time wasted on travel/visiting her home city or her visiting me in airport city and having to pay extra accommodation & travel costs. Travelling to non-airport cities a major pain, travelling inconvenience, risk, and extra planning and time taken and to an extent cost as hotel or apartment rooms may have to be overlapped a little to ensure accommodation is there when you get there.

I think there are two things from this that jump out at me.

1.  A woman is not going to move to a city for the possibility of meeting a WM.  The vast majority of FSUW, even those on international sites, are never going to marry a WM.  They know that.  So, this just isn't going to happen.

2.  Your focus on lack of your convenience to me suggests this endeavor is probably not for you.  That sort of inconvenience will pale in comparison to the cultural shocks and attitude adjustments you will have to make with a foreign born spouse.

[BorisS]

I think there are two things from this that jump out at me.

1.  A woman is not going to move to a city for the possibility of meeting a WM.  The vast majority of FSUW, even those on international sites, are never going to marry a WM.  They know that.  So, this just isn't going to happen.

2.  Your focus on lack of your convenience to me suggests this endeavor is probably not for you.  That sort of inconvenience will pale in comparison to the cultural shocks and attitude adjustments you will have to make with a foreign born spouse.

Dating and finding a woman to marry in the FSU shouldn't require the writing of a prospectus. :-)))



I'm sorry. But reading your other threads I have to agree with Boethius. It's no real knock on you. Not all men have the wherewithal to do this successfully. But whatever you decide to do...Good Luck.

[BillyB]

Trench, beggars can't be choosers. First you got to get a lot of women interested in you. Then you can choose the ones that best meet your requirements. Right now your requirements are going to get a lot of women disqualified and you'll be focusing on women that are in high demand since they live in easy access locations, speak good English, and have no kids. Women who have a lot of men to choose from are very hard to catch. If you feel you can beat your competition, go for it but if you don't beat them, you'll be lonely for a long time. Write a bunch of women and find a few that's into you. None of them may meet all your requirements but you'll still be happy with one if she's into you.

[Jumper]

Then you can choose the ones that best meet your requirements.

Yeap, choose the woman , not the destination.
TC seem like a WOVO type, so no need for any added
complexity to your plan ,  find someone you really click with
 on skype and phone. (yes good English helps)

Worry about the rest later.

 Your in the UK?
its close enough  provincial city travel shouldn't be any real difficulty
in the bigger picture.
 I generally flew Chicago to (vienna/prague/heathrow/warsaw) etc
 to  Kiev , then over night (8pm to 5am) train to Nikoleav.
Wasn't that bad , and your travel is half that at least.

As Beo stated, FSU women are not  going to intentionally move to an international airport city to increase her odds of meeting a westerner over the I-net.
They do move to them, but for local job/life opportunities

If you meet someone from such a city, sure it makes it more convenient, and you could limit your search to that,
but  if you are trying to expand your dating pool of women ,
then limiting things right off just seems counter productive?

 I'd agree there is going to be a higher level of English in those areas..
yet I know  there were women in Niko that have near perfect English you did not  meet. So you'd just need to do more searching in provincial cities before hand, and you have plenty of time.

[Trenchcoat]

Perhaps your right, women may not move to an airport city to meet a foreigner or at least very few.

I think what I will do is keep it to just one airport city to start with St. Petersburg - I will use many legit dating sites, free & pay monthly. If no luck after a while I will expand from there. From what I saw in Odessa there seemed a lot of beautiful females (ok not all will be free, etc even if walking alone or with other females) but there seemed likely more than enough in just one city to not need go to provincial cities/towns. I may be wrong but I will try this first then widen the search. In fact for me it might be better to take two airport cities say St. Petersburg & Moscow rather than say St. Petersburg & surrounding provincial cities/towns.

Boe suggests this process may not be for me because of my focus on convenience/culture issues. I think that I have found where I can fit in the process, that is only immersing myself as far as the airport cities. This may sound restrictive to those that have not been or have been and are content when in the thick of alien cultures but to many like myself I think its important to go with what your comfortable with. For those that have not been it can be quite a culture shock, not real bad at all, just different. Some people for example may not be comfortable at all with Russian/Ukrainian culture. I'm comfortable enough but just not in a dances with wolves kind of a way.

For me capitalising where I feel I will get the most return makes sense to me. Bringing up randoms any person, any where just seems a non logical approach and will take me off track like what happened originally so not what I want to happen this time.

Just remembered also, not to get too caught up on pictures also, even natural home taken ones, they can all lie and give no idea of chemistry. So remembering that photos may just be roughly indicative of what the lady looks like and to skype to check out more fully is what was learned also, will add and adjust above. 

[LAman]

trenchcoat, you gleaned all that in a few months time and 2 short trips????

[Trenchcoat]

trenchcoat, you gleaned all that in a few months time and 2 short trips????

Yes, why you ask?

[jone]

Perhaps your right, women may not move to an airport city to meet a foreigner or at least very few.

I think what I will do is keep it to just one airport city to start with St. Petersburg - I will use many legit dating sites, free & pay monthly. If no luck after a while I will expand from there. From what I saw in Odessa there seemed a lot of beautiful females (ok not all will be free, etc even if walking alone or with other females) but there seemed likely more than enough in just one city to not need go to provincial cities/towns. I may be wrong but I will try this first then widen the search. In fact for me it might be better to take two airport cities say St. Petersburg & Moscow rather than say St. Petersburg & surrounding provincial cities/towns.

Boe suggests this process may not be for me because of my focus on convenience/culture issues. I think that I have found where I can fit in the process, that is only immersing myself as far as the airport cities. This may sound restrictive to those that have not been or have been and are content when in the thick of alien cultures but to many like myself I think its important to go with what your comfortable with. For those that have not been it can be quite a culture shock, not real bad at all, just different. Some people for example may not be comfortable at all with Russian/Ukrainian culture. I'm comfortable enough but just not in a dances with wolves kind of a way.

For me capitalising where I feel I will get the most return makes sense to me. Bringing up randoms any person, any where just seems a non logical approach and will take me off track like what happened originally so not what I want to happen this time.

Just remembered also, not to get too caught up on pictures also, even natural home taken ones, they can all lie and give no idea of chemistry. So remembering that photos may just be roughly indicative of what the lady looks like and to skype to check out more fully is what was learned also, will add and adjust above.

TC,

I am not saying this as criticism, but I don't think you've at all penetrated the Eastern European culture yet.  Pieter is one huge city.    It has many different facets.  If you are down on Nevsky, it is a tourist destination.  But the majority of the city is a city like London and I don't have much faith that you, on your own, will be able to find what you are looking for. 

If you are really serious about this, I think you, above all people, should have help from a Wingman or a Introductory Service.

[Trenchcoat]

TC,

I am not saying this as criticism, but I don't think you've at all penetrated the Eastern European culture yet.  Pieter is one huge city.    It has many different facets.  If you are down on Nevsky, it is a tourist destination.  But the majority of the city is a city like London and I don't have much faith that you, on your own, will be able to find what you are looking for. 

If you are really serious about this, I think you, above all people, should have help from a Wingman or a Introductory Service.

I think PUA would be a fallback tactic or just for a bit of fun/interest. I wouldn't at all rely on this as I think your right in that something pre-arranged is better for me. Why do you say wingman or introductory service though? Aren't most introductory services a scam? Like the ones down in Nikolaev. Mt thought was to use the free & pay monthly dating sites to line up dates/date.

[lyndontom]

I think PUA would be a fallback tactic or just for a bit of fun/interest. I wouldn't at all rely on this as I think your right in that something pre-arranged is better for me. Why do you say wingman or introductory service though? Aren't most introductory services a scam? Like the ones down in Nikolaev. Mt thought was to use the free & pay monthly dating sites to line up dates/date.

TC,

I would stay away from the PUA stuff if you're serious in your search. Take a look at the video at the below link on scammers which also addresses the PUA subject by Svetlana Mukha an award winning matchmaker.

http://www.ukrainebridesagency.com/blog/

I think every man should try and be the best version of himself on a date, or to strive to improve his appearance, personality and demeanour. But for me PUA 'techniques' create a fake charicature and are doomed to failure in the long-term by mis-representing the real you.

Depending on where you are in the UK, you have plenty of direct flight options to Russia, Ukraine and Belarus if from London and to many convenient indirect cities (1 stop) from Manchester to Kherson, Kharkiv, Dnepropetrovsk, Zaporozhye, Kiev and Odessa with Turkish Airlines and probably plenty others to Belrus, Russia, etc. As others have pointed out though, unless you plan to meet a few women for dates and are tight on time, the visit should be geared around the woman not the city.


Not all matchmakers or agencies are scams either. You just have to have your common sense about you and sniff out who wants the best results for their clients and who is operating a profit seeking enterprise. There's no reason why one can't operate both and do so in a decent manner.

[HoundDaddyLee]

Trenchcoat,


Why do you think PUA techniques will help you? Based on your own words you seem to be afraid to talk to people. PUA "experts" (sociopaths in my opinion) can talk the chicken off the bone. You need to learn to develop your personality and be comfortable in any social situation. Until this is mastered you will not be successful. Many folks here have tried to help you. But you are not listening.


Going to large "Airport" cities and spewing PUA lines to women is not going to get you a quality woman. Being yourself and improving who you are will help you find a mate and also help you in life.


HDL

[Trenchcoat]

Trenchcoat,


Why do you think PUA techniques will help you? Based on your own words you seem to be afraid to talk to people. PUA "experts" (sociopaths in my opinion) can talk the chicken off the bone. You need to learn to develop your personality and be comfortable in any social situation. Until this is mastered you will not be successful. Many folks here have tried to help you. But you are not listening.


Going to large "Airport" cities and spewing PUA lines to women is not going to get you a quality woman. Being yourself and improving who you are will help you find a mate and also help you in life.


HDL

I'm not afraid to talk to people at all, but I know that some people are better at talking to people than others, they are socially skilled I am not so. Hence, if I were to talk to someone I would not know what to say as well as some people might, I have no problem with going up to people, but I am unlikely to get anywhere fast, some people can get somewhere fast with PUA. I am not saying PUA is going to be my strategy, it is not, as I know going to a city using this is unlikely to work for me. If on a whim the opportunity came up maybe, but my main strategy is going to be free & pay monthly websites for me from now on & skype with that.

I agree, I may not have the best personality around in social situations, I'm normally fine one on one, and of course person dependent on how you get on. If I could improve it so I shine more in public I would but no easy answer seems forthcoming on that. I would not regard myself as real bad but of course they are guys around that are the life of the party in an instant and with them I cannot compete of course.

[Patagonie]

I'm not afraid to talk to people at all, but I know that some people are better at talking to people than others, they are socially skilled I am not so. Hence, if I were to talk to someone I would not know what to say as well as some people might, I have no problem with going up to people, but I am unlikely to get anywhere fast, some people can get somewhere fast with PUA. I am not saying PUA is going to be my strategy, it is not, as I know going to a city using this is unlikely to work for me. If on a whim the opportunity came up maybe, but my main strategy is going to be free & pay monthly websites for me from now on & skype with that.

I agree, I may not have the best personality around in social situations, I'm normally fine one on one, and of course person dependent on how you get on. If I could improve it so I shine more in public I would but no easy answer seems forthcoming on that. I would not regard myself as real bad but of course they are guys around that are the life of the party in an instant and with them I cannot compete of course.

TC,
Don't listen the last two posters about pua and game, they know shit about it.
They speak about something that they have no experience and not practiced.

Give you a try, take a course and give 15 days of your time about this to read about what they say.
If you find a good course it will help you.
Being yourself is the most stupid thing i have ever heard, except for the guys who are natural and already get a lot of women (perhaps 10 % of men).
Do you imagine your soon saying, dad i don't want to go to school this morning. "Stay yourself my son and stay here".
Ten years after he is telling you dad, my boss is a pain in the ass, i don't want to go to work. "Stay yourself my son, stay at home today".

For people who have some problems in the social room and especially with women, the stay yourself is absolutely not helping them, they need someone to explain them the step by step and they need to practice.
I saw two videos of french men coming in FSU to meet some women. The first was a truck driver and he was easy in social but i would say that the second had a better profile for FSU marriage. Guess what, the second, a shy guy, screwed up totally his meeting because he was NOT EVEN capable to create A SPARK of attraction. The first one got easily a second date and she was into him, that was obvious on the video.

So when a guy has some difficulties with women he has to make some progress and no other people than the pua stuff is qualified to help you in this topic. I have read tons of psychology, litterature, seen movies. THat's totally useless. Worse a lot of people who are writers and producers are more betas than the average.
I have come along women and spent years to listen them about what they have to say about how a man has to deal with them. It never worked because they have no clue about the secret language that is exchanged between two lovers. They don't say what they think and they don't think what they say when it's about men and women.

"Going to large "Airport" cities and spewing PUA lines to women is absolutely going in the future to help you to meet a quality woman. Because attraction has absolutely nothing to do with quality or not quality women, with social skills you will be able to attract any type of women, that your personal choice to choose a woman just for the bang or for a marriage. The two very hackneyed statements written by people who know nothing about pua and game is that players (gamers) are only going to attract the crappiest women and that every women will notice that you have done a pua training. That's totally wrong of course except if you are a beginner and you open sets of women in a place usually heavily targetted by a lot of players.
I got during my game life twice more women (affairs) at least than in my previous life. And they were more "quality" women during my game time. It allows me also to find my wife.

"I think every man should try and be the best version of himself on a date, or to strive to improve his appearance, personality and demeanour." That's exactly what the pua staff repeats to their students every minute.
They will give priceless informations about how to use your non verbal expression, how to interpret the signs of interest or disinterest, how to speak (voice), how to telling, when to leave, how to raise the sexual tension etc....  And you cannot change if you don't practice, theory is nothing without practice.

I already explained that a lot of company are using and paying high price for training like "improving your leadership", "liberating your creativity", "solving conflict in a group", "voice and energy", "convincing someone", "negociation art", NPL of course, there are a lot of training of this type.
I have never saw companies wasting money just for the pleasure, so it adds something.

[treadmilldude]

Sorry Patagonie, but I disagree with most of the advice you have given Trenchcoat. Using PUA lines is not going to help TCoat find a wonderful, extremely high-quality, marriage-material woman. Sure, it might get him a few dates with some attractive women. But a long-term relationship with a woman who is beautiful on the inside? No sir, pick up lines from PUArtists are not the answer.

HounddaddyLee's advice is solid and right on the money "Going to large "Airport" cities and spewing PUA lines to women is not going to get you a quality woman. Being yourself and improving who you are will help you find a mate and also help you in life."  Bingo, I could not have said this any better than HDLee said it.

Myself, I have a lot of areas in my life I can improve on before I ask a woman to marry me. And I am actively working on those areas right now, improving myself in those areas. I think Trenchcoat, likewise, also has some areas in his life he can make some improvements on to make him a better catch for a wonderful, marriage-material FSU woman. TC and I (actually every RWD member who has embarked on this endeavor) both need to spend a lot of time bettering and improving ourselves, not wasting time listening to PUA gurus.

Lyndontom's advice is also phenomenal. I agree with everything Lyndontom said...perfectly, succinctly stated by Lyndomtom.

PUA techniques is not the way for TC to go Patagonie, I am sorry. He is much better off following the recommendations of HDLee and Lyndontom.

[HoundDaddyLee]

Pat,


I actually know more about PUA than you think. I have done some reading and there was a TV show here a decade or so ago that featured a PUA "expert". I have read one of Roosh's books, again out of curiosity. My opinion is he (Roosh) is a sociopath. I guess we are lucky that his "thing" is scoring with women and not murdering them. If you have to lie and obfuscate to get a woman into bed all you will end up with is a conquest. Again, my opinion. Did you use PUA to land your wife, Pat? I hope it was your natural personality that did it and not PUA "game". I guess you come from the line of though that women are prey and men are the predators. I happen to disagree. I find the PUA "philosophy" to be misogynistic and views women as objects.


We will have to agree to disagree on this. I don't think PUA practitioners land "bad" women. I just think it is rare to land a keeper and not a one night stand. If Trenchcoat want so "plant his flag" in the FSU, then PUA will get him there. If he wants to find a wife/friend/lifelong mate, he should just be himself. I believe in the view that it is better to tell the truth because you won't have to remember each lie you have told.


Again, just my opinion. I have a wonderful women who loves me for who I am, not for some facade that I created to woo her.


HDL 

[treadmilldude]

Pat,


I actually know more about PUA than you think. I have done some reading and there was a TV show here a decade or so ago that featured a PUA "expert". I have read one of Roosh's books, again out of curiosity. My opinion is he (Roosh) is a sociopath. I guess we are lucky that his "thing" is scoring with women and not murdering him. If you have to lie and obfuscate to get a woman into bed all you will end up with is a conquest. Again, my opinion. Did you use PUA to land your wife, Pat? I hope it was your natural personality that did it and not PUA "game". I guess you come from the line of though that women are prey and men are the predators. I happen to disagree. I find the PUA "philosophy" to be misogynistic and views women as objects.


We will have to agree to disagree on this. I don't think PUA practitioners land "bad" women. I just think it is rare to land a keeper and not a one night stand. If Trenchcoat want so "plant his flag" in the FSU, then PUA will get him there. If he wants to find a wife/friend/lifelong mate, he should just be himself. I believe in the view that it is better to tell the truth because you won't have to remember each lie you have told.


Again, just my opinion. I have a wonderful women who loves me for who I am, not for some facade that I created to woo her.


HDL

That is wonderful to hear HDLee. You are very blessed.

[Patagonie]

Sorry Patagonie, but I disagree with most of the advice you have given Trenchcoat. Using PUA lines is not going to help TCoat find a wonderful, extremely high-quality, marriage-material woman. Sure, it might get him a few dates with some attractive women. But a long-term relationship with a woman who is beautiful on the inside? No sir, pick up lines from PUArtists are not the answer.

HounddaddyLee's advice is solid and right on the money "Going to large "Airport" cities and spewing PUA lines to women is not going to get you a quality woman. Being yourself and improving who you are will help you find a mate and also help you in life."  Bingo, I could not have said this any better than HDLee said it.

Myself, I have a lot of areas in my life I can improve on before I ask a woman to marry me. And I am actively working on those areas right now, improving myself in those areas. I think Trenchcoat, likewise, also has some areas in his life he can make some improvements on to make him a better catch for a wonderful, marriage-material FSU woman. TC and I (actually every RWD member who has embarked on this endeavor) both need to spend a lot of time bettering and improving ourselves, not wasting time listening to PUA gurus.

Lyndontom's advice is also phenomenal. I agree with everything Lyndontom said...perfectly, succinctly stated by Lyndomtom.

PUA techniques is not the way for TC to go Patagonie, I am sorry. He is much better off following the recommendations of HDLee and Lyndontom.

Using lines (openers) is only a little part of what is learnt to lead the complete process of dating.
It could help any guy to gain some confidence and be more comfortable the first minutes when he meets a woman.
Contrary to what some stupids movies are showing, shyness and nervousness during the first minutes of a meeting are not cute or desirable for a woman, that's a big no no. 
Airports could be a place, but it doesn't matter, as BillyB and 2tBill and ML (and some others) wrote, the meeting can happen anytime and anywhere. You can get some staring from a woman at the theater while visiting FSU but if you are too shy to go and to meet her nothing will happen. And that woman could be your future wife, you never know. So your future wife could be any woman around you coming at the right time, provided that you know how to interest her enough to get the next meeting (and her phone number) and to keep her interest any steps during the ladder climbing.
Improving who you are is absolutely in the guidelines of any pua programs but the specific helpful hints for dating will never be found in rwd, people magazines or marriage agencies.

The problem for many guys, when you have removed the culture problem, the language problem, is that they don't know how to raise enough the interest of the girl. As a result they come back saying "no chemistry".
The question of chemistry, this very dark science,  is largely improved and explained when you have hitten the player's road. That's a real blessing  and a real help for many guys. Marriage minded or not.


So you, who have no experience and no knowledge about the dating science, i would ask you " is there something embarrassing for you" if TC get little or big improvments of such experience?
Let him  go and  make his own opinion (hoping that he gets a nice coach, there are many stupids people all over the world).

[Boethius]

Contrary to what some stupids movies are showing, shyness and nervousness during the first minutes of a meeting are not cute or desirable for a woman, that's a big no no. 

I don't think this is true.  It is very subjective. 


I think overall, a woman wants a man who is confident in himself over time, but most women will forgive shyness or nervousness in a first meeting, if they are physically attracted to the man.

[lyndontom]

I don't think this is true.  It is very subjective. 


I think overall, a woman wants a man who is confident in himself over time, but most women will forgive shyness or nervousness in a first meeting, if they are physically attracted to the man.

+1 Boethius.

Patagonie, you have no idea how much or how little I or others here know about PUA. Before I decided I wanted to settle down, I read a lot of stuff. I read Neil Strauss, and have every ebook Roosh wrote until last year. I travelled the world and occasionally I got laid. What some people (his followers) fail to realise is that Roosh has descended into a characature that is purely controversial now for the sake of selling books, causing protests and generally trying to maintain some fame in the public domain.

You make broad generalisations about what women want. You are married and I can respect that but I'd be more interested to know what got and maintained your wife's interest and how much of that was down to you, PUA and exactly how that correlates to everyday life with you now. Is the reality, and your defensive nature towards PUA, simply something you try and pinpoint as being tangible in your becoming a more desirable man? PUA's are generally associated with trying to get sex; you can change your personality for a short time but anything beyond that and the facade will fade away.

I don't think anyone is saying someone who is socially awkward or struggles in certain situations should not try to change that. I am extremely comfortable around my friends and in social settings but I hate doing big presentations professionally in my work. Will I get better at them by avoiding them wherever possible? Of course not, that's simple common sense.

Getting confident and more comfortable in dating situations can come through practice, changing dress style slightly, getting in the gym more, career success, having a good haircut. Anything can improve that. Getting caught up in what essentially has become a 'game' industry is not something I personally think will help TC - however little you think we might know about it. Do I think using PUA techniques is more likely to help anyone land a higher calibrate lady? Not a chance. If you can't catch her and keep her anyway who are you trying to kid?

Again, just my opinion. I have a wonderful women who loves me for who I am, not for some facade that I created to woo her. HDL

HDL is bang on the money in my book.

[Trenchcoat]

+1 Boethius.

Getting confident and more comfortable in dating situations can come through practice, changing dress style slightly, getting in the gym more, career success, having a good haircut. Anything can improve that. Getting caught up in what essentially has become a 'game' industry is not something I personally think will help TC - however little you think we might know about it. Do I think using PUA techniques is more likely to help anyone land a higher calibrate lady? Not a chance. If you can't catch her and keep her anyway who are you trying to kid?



HDL is bang on the money in my book.

Suprisingly I think ther is some truth in that, I found for me, something towards a suit in look seemed to work better for me out there then T-shirts (fine for dressing down for local travel though) I came across better I think. Not so much in any attempt to 'pick up' girls, just in dealing with them in everyday exchanges. I normally feel better when my hair is in a reasonable state, if its gone too long without one then I think it just doesn't look fashionable and I probably feel a bit out of it compared to others walking around with shorter, cleaner hair cuts. Gym I need to allocate more time to this as well, presently next to nothing but I'm going to put some time once a week towards this I think. I'm not taking the PUA as a serious proposition, just something I may try out to try to improve conversational skills, dating online/skype is going to be my main way forward so   fixing up dates in adavance before going with women where there is chemistry.

[ML]

I am here to support Pat.

I know nothing about PUA, have never read a book or seen any film clip about it.

However, I can get the general gist of it, and I think it can be very useful in a broad sense which is what I think Pat is trying to get across.

Actually, looking back, I could have probably benefited from knowing  something about it, even as I have no trouble in relating to women or talking to them.  But maybe knowing something along the order that Pat knows, my casual interactions could have been moved along further.

And, I don't look at the PUA as strictly trying to get into a woman's panties, although I realize the Roosh guy and others may be promoting that aspect.

Rather, I think the PUA knowledge could be useful in just meeting gals, moving the initial contact along to a second contact, etc.  At that advanced stage, then just the normal dating process ensues.

So look at PUA as just 'getting your foot in the door.'
Most men could probably benefit from this alone.

[lyndontom]

ML/TC,


I don't think picking up a book and trying to learn a few things ever did anyone any harm. I wouldn't knock a wholistic approach, I simply would not use it as the foundation for a strategy on which to build a search for a good FSU woman.


Sure there will be strategies, techniques etc that will help get a foot in the door and may eliminate some awkward silences on dates with women. I don't think it is linked solely to PUA stuff, but Patagonie seems to dismiss the alternatives.


TC - where in the UK are you? If ever you are up north let me know and we can grab a beer.

[ML]

Sure there will be strategies, techniques etc that will help get a foot in the door and may eliminate some awkward silences on dates with women. I don't think it is linked solely to PUA stuff, but Patagonie seems to dismiss the alternatives.

Exactly right.  Many things people can do to improve themselves with respect to many attributes, etc.

Pat and others are just telling that they have been helped with this one method and are advising others that it might help them also.

I doubt Pat dismisses other alternatives, because of French Pragmatism.

[Trenchcoat]

ML/TC,


I don't think picking up a book and trying to learn a few things ever did anyone any harm. I wouldn't knock a wholistic approach, I simply would not use it as the foundation for a strategy on which to build a search for a good FSU woman.


Sure there will be strategies, techniques etc that will help get a foot in the door and may eliminate some awkward silences on dates with women. I don't think it is linked solely to PUA stuff, but Patagonie seems to dismiss the alternatives.


TC - where in the UK are you? If ever you are up north let me know and we can grab a beer.

Thanks, lyndontom, I'm down south, near Bournemouth, have been since I was a child, how far up north are you?