Trench's Questions and Philosophies

[msmob]

One of the reports is three years old the other is this year. Free travel within schengen has nothing to do with this. This is about those coming to live & work illegally within the EU. Keep up Mobers.

So, we can dispense with the three-year old links - as Ukrainians are free to travel within the Schengen zone, right ?

Does 'keeping up' involve pointing out BOTH articles were indeed  three years old ?

Perhaps, before 'banging heads' a little fact checking might be in order ...?

Can you get ANYTHING, right ?

[Trenchcoat]

So, we can dispense with the three-year old links - as Ukrainians are free to travel within the Schengen zone, right ?

Does 'keeping up' involve pointing out BOTH articles were indeed  three years old ?

Perhaps, before 'banging heads' a little fact checking might be in order ...?

Can you get ANYTHING, right ?

Yet you fail to answer the statement above tat shows the absurdity of what you are saying. The above is what you are saying isnt it? That they stay put depite being able to get what they want through back door immigration. Even with all the problems of inflation, conflict in the east, employment problems, problems with local men, problems with WM visiting, unpleasant areas where they live, etc. Answer me that one?

[Boethius]

You assume everyone wants to live exactly as you do, and that emigration, rather than a happy family life, is why they are looking abroad.  That is the first fault in almost all that you post.  It permeates your thinking, and is partly why I don't think you will be successful in this endeavor.

[msmob]

Yet you fail to answer the statement above tat shows the absurdity of what you are saying.

Deflecting from the repeated lack of evidence' now ?

Please..... show us something RECENT to back up your nonsense contention..

[Trenchcoat]

You assume everyone wants to live exactly as you do, and that emigration, rather than a happy family life, is why they are looking abroad.  That is the first fault in almost all that you post.  It permeates your thinking, and is partly why I don't think you will be successful in this endeavor.

I want a happy family life too. All I'm saying to Moby is that theoretically a girl stands a better chance of finding a western man in the west. I really don't think that she would not just travel to the west to increase her odds if it was that easy to do so. The girl I last met earned around $/£100-150 a month in retail. The first girl I met worked in a travel agency and I think earned similar money, well put it this way she needed me to pay for her train travel & hotel room for the week. Now if it was really that easy to move to the west and meet more guys and earn more money by the back door why wouldn't they do it. After all the end game for many western guys they meet is that they will move to the west anyway. Sure I think the girls I met wanted a happy family life but I don't think back door immigration was really a possibility for them. I think a lot of the women want out of their dreary lives in addition to wanting a happy family life. Where they are particularly if they have a child offers little happy family life or comfortable living. Single mothers out there will take any path to get to the happy family life and comfortable living they can hence my earlier phrase.

[Boethius]

 


You don't get it.  They are not looking for life abroad solely to find a better material life.  They are not moving to Western countries on their own to find a man.  Most who move abroad are already married, or have been married, and are not working abroad to find a man. 


Why do you assume their lives are "dreary"?  And what, exactly, is "dreary"?  The inability to buy cheap goods, such as Tommy Hilfiger shirts?  The inability to buy a cheap perfume?

[Trenchcoat]

You don't get it.  They are not looking for life abroad solely to find a better material life.  They are not moving to Western countries on their own to find a man.  Most who move abroad are already married, or have been married, and are not working abroad to find a man. 


Why do you assume their lives are "dreary"?  And what, exactly, is "dreary"?  The inability to buy cheap goods, such as Tommy Hilfiger shirts?  The inability to buy a cheap perfume?

Tommy Hilfinger shirts are not cheap, they cost several times the cost of a normal shirt and once on you wouldn't know the difference. One of the things that narks me is having to trawl through having to buy all this consumer cr*p that I don't really give a toss about but apparently is needed in dating FSW.

What I am saying is that many FSW aren't doing it for a better material life but they see it as in with a happy family life. Some women I think us western men need to be dubious off. The last girl I was with for instance wanted me to go through all the hassle of getting her a visa so she could come to the UK. Yet it would have been way easier for us to meet anywhere in Ukraine even in most of Europe yet she refused that point blank, does that sound like a girl intent on a happy family life to you?

[Boethius]

Tommy Hilfiger polos are, on average, $50. That’s cheap.

Perhaps the girl wanted to see how you live in order to determine if you’re a serious man.

[Trenchcoat]

Tommy Hilfiger polos are, on average, $50. That’s cheap.

Perhaps the girl wanted to see how you live in order to determine if you’re a serious man.

For you maybe but for many guys in the UK that is half a day's wages, now on its own that is not a problem but buy a few shirts, shorts, trousers of that sort of brand and it all adds up and soon you've spent a week maybe two weeks wages. The way she shopped is like you do that nearly every day, I cannot afford to see all my wages just go on clothing alone I have other bills and stuff to buy. Besides I see no point in spending $50 on a polo shirt when you could by one for $10 elsewhere in an everday wear shop or even 3 polo shirts for $50. What exactly is this polo shirt for $50 supposed to do for me? Have girls dropping to their knees around me at the sheer marvellousness of seeing me in it! It just sheer stupidity.

See how I live? I live like most people in the UK in a bog standard house. Its terrace and not large, yes I own it and you could bring up a family in it but while it is not necessarily cramped its stuck within a lot of other terrace houses. So am I rich, by many Ukrainian standards maybe, even by some very poor people in the UK but generally no I am not. So if she is after a rich man she would be severely disappointed by me and many guys in the UK, similar situation in the US I hear from guys on here, most are not at all wealthy. Yet sounds like she needs to see that I am wealthy or I am not 'serious' lol - well that's a interesting way of putting it and yet she is just looking for happy family life? 

[Boethius]

You chose to buy that girl clothing.  She wasn't taking you to Dolce & Gabbana, or Valentino, she took you to a cheaper end clothier.  The amount you agreed to spend is on you, not her.  She didn't know if that was a significant amount for you. 


As for how you live, I don't mean materially.  I mean the rhythms of your life, and how she would fit into them.

[Trenchcoat]

You chose to buy that girl clothing.  She wasn't taking you to Dolce & Gabbana, or Valentino, she took you to a cheaper end clothier.  The amount you agreed to spend is on you, not her.  She didn't know if that was a significant amount for you. 


As for how you live, I don't mean materially.  I mean the rhythms of your life, and how she would fit into them.

Yeah but surely it is reasonable for the guy to want to see her for more than just two weeks before that bridge is crossed? I mean demanding it and blocking any further meeting to get to know each other better is just creating a problem/hurdle/block in the relationship call it what you will.

Theoretically yes I agreed, I thought it would make her happy and would be content but she just wanted more and more all the time despite my protests. I should have put my foot down more firmly I know that now, I wanted to satisfy both of us but buying her stuff just damaged our relationship greatly I feel. Most of the shops that were around was selling that sort of price clothing it wasn't really the sort of place where there was a lot of reasonable price clothing stores. There was one or two but despite me liking the dresses in there she passed over these (not just for the price either). I get the impression she would tend towards the designer label stuff quite a lot and for me I would find this a pain, a nice dress to me is a nice dress it can be bought quite cheaply. Again like said before I think many FSW think WM are made of money and it grows on tree's. She should have gotten the idea from my protests that I did not really want to go in these designer label shops but I think she didn't care at all. Just seems callous to me.

I isn't it possible to just meet someone on this venture get on well and be into each other and enjoy being in a relationship together without all this weirdness of needing to go on bizarre shopping sprees.

[Boethius]

Yeah but surely it is reasonable for the guy to want to see her for more than just two weeks before that bridge is crossed? I mean demanding it and blocking any further meeting to get to know each other better is just creating a problem/hurdle/block in the relationship call it what you will.

Or is it telling her she is not important enough to you to share your life with her?  She may have taken your refusal as evidence you are not serious about her.  All she was to you was a roll in hay.

Theoretically yes I agreed, I thought it would make her happy and would be content but she just wanted more and more all the time despite my protests. I should have put my foot down more firmly I know that now, I wanted to satisfy both of us but buying her stuff just damaged our relationship greatly I feel.

If this damaged your relationship, then you didn't have a relationship to begin with.  Just a mercantile exchange.

Most of the shops that were around was selling that sort of price clothing it wasn't really the sort of place where there was a lot of reasonable price clothing stores. There was one or two but despite me liking the dresses in there she passed over these (not just for the price either). I get the impression she would tend towards the designer label stuff quite a lot and for me I would find this a pain, a nice dress to me is a nice dress it can be bought quite cheaply. Again like said before I think many FSW think WM are made of money and it grows on tree's. She should have gotten the idea from my protests that I did not really want to go in these designer label shops but I think she didn't care at all. Just seems callous to me.

You were weak.

I isn't it possible to just meet someone on this venture get on well and be into each other and enjoy being in a relationship together without all this weirdness of needing to go on bizarre shopping sprees.

I am fairly certain the vast majority of men here who married did not go on shopping sprees.

[Trenchcoat]

Or is it telling her she is not important enough to you to share your life with her?  She may have taken your refusal as evidence you are not serious about her.  All she was to you was a roll in hay.


If this damaged your relationship, then you didn't have a relationship to begin with.  Just a mercantile exchange.



You were weak.


I am fairly certain the vast majority of men here who married did not go on shopping sprees.

Yes I accept that I was weak as I should have just rejected all of the clothes shopping advances. I know to do that now but at the time I made the mistake of thinking it would not be a continuous problem if I just bought her a few things. I was wrong.

I would like to think our relationship was not just a mercantile exchange, I think though that it felt like that the more I gave into her shopping habits, again this was a mistake which damaged our relationship or at least it felt like that from my perspective - I wanted to spend time with her on her hobbies and interests and talk to her to get to know her not stand around all day in clothes shops.

There may have been something in the sharing my life with her, I understand that she did not want to with me until she had seen mine because if my life did not suit the fall out would be embarrassing to her, talk where she lives, etc. She failed to see it from my perspective though that we are not ready to for that stage yet we need to get to know each other better. It was not the case of her being a roll in the hay for me, I am out after a serious relationship, a happy family. For me her doing her shopping spree showed me she was more interested in that than looking to be with me in a serious family relationship. I mean why would you want to keep peeing off the guy you are with if he is protesting about your clothes buying if you want a serious family relationship?

I've no doubt many of the guys on here did not do shopping sprees, I made an error of judgement I will not be making again. The fact that she will not compromise to meet up again is not a great place to be really I mean getting a visa for the UK is a serious pain in the ass.

But yes I guess its possible that we distrust and misunderstand each other so much from different perspectives and have great difficulty understanding each other. I may have misunderstood that his is what she wanted and the problems of me visiting her but how am I supposed to know. She I think was overzealous in distrusting me and not understanding my issue with being told she did not want me to visit first that I would take that as an insincere intention of having dubious motives for taking up this stance. Again how an I supposed to know? I'm a foreign guy and I know nothing of the intricate workings of how life is over there. I mean couldn't she see it from my perspective at all, I tried to tell her my perspective on it even if it did seem distrustful I thought at least she would discuss it with me. 

[Boethius]

You didn't have a relationship.

You were sleeping with her, but were not at the stage where she could come and visit you?  So what role did she, exactly, play in your heart?  It seems to me none.  You weren't even willing to attempt to obtain a visa for her because it is a "PITA".  Yup, seems to me like a relationship made in heaven.

You are not supposed to "know".  You are supposed to feel it in your heart.  The fact you didn't, and still regret spending money, suggests to me you never had strong feelings for her.

[Trenchcoat]

You didn't have a relationship.


You were sleeping with her, but were not at the stage where she could come and visit you?  So what role did she, exactly, play in your heart?  It seems to me none.  You weren't even willing to attempt to obtain a visa for here because it is a "PITA".  Yup, seems to me like a relationship made in heaven.


You are not supposed to "know".  You are supposed to feel it in your heart.  The fact you didn't, and still regret spending money, suggests to me you never had strong feelings for her.

I don't regret spending money but I do see the clothes shopping as getting in the way and ending up as something we could have done without at least the extent it became. There was no happy medium on that one. I'm guessing that she was not enough into me to agree to another visit elsewhere even if she thought I was just doing it for the sex so it works both ways. A girl who truely loved someone would agree to it even if she was dubious of that being the reason the guy wanted to meet up again. It isn't it's to get to know her better to have a relationship as you put it which we could have been doing were it not for her strolling off into shops all the time.

[msmob]

I don't regret spending money but I do see the clothes shopping as getting in the way and ending up as something we could have done without at least the extent it became. There was no happy medium on that one. I'm guessing that she was not enough into me to agree to another visit elsewhere even if she thought I was just doing it for the sex so it works both ways. A girl who truely loved someone would agree to it even if she was dubious of that being the reason the guy wanted to meet up again. It isn't it's to get to know her better to have a relationship as you put it which we could have been doing were it not for her strolling off into shops all the time.

OMG

Trench, do you ever pause to think what you write before hitting 'post' ?

1/ You took a plane to meet someone
2/ You paid for a holiday in a third country
3/ She wanted to see how you lived - which would have been entirely possible- if she had waited to prove a durable relationship

Love never came into it - you 'resented' her 'tests of your seriousness' and you should have learnt a lesson about dating a young FSU W

You didn't and don't 'get it' and you're arguing with a FSU W...  about FSU W ..  You are getting golden help - you refuse to see it.

Please start absorbing and stop offering 'advice' to newbies - when you are so demonstrably clueless - despite 'hints'

[Boethius]

I’m not a FSUW. But I do know a number of them, most of them married to FSUM, and a slight majority live in the FSU, with zero desire to leave. Including a number of single mothers.

[Trenchcoat]

OMG

Trench, do you ever pause to think what you write before hitting 'post' ?

1/ You took a plane to meet someone
2/ You paid for a holiday in a third country
3/ She wanted to see how you lived - which would have been entirely possible- if she had waited to prove a durable relationship

Love never came into it - you 'resented' her 'tests of your seriousness' and you should have learnt a lesson about dating a young FSU W

You didn't and don't 'get it' and you're arguing with a FSU W...  about FSU W ..  You are getting golden help - you refuse to see it.

Please start absorbing and stop offering 'advice' to newbies - when you are so demonstrably clueless - despite 'hints'

I agree entirely withappy the 1, 2 & 3 points that you state so where exactly do we differ? I both went on plane to meet her and agreed to holiday with her I enjoyed it despite the over the top shopping trips. So I met at least two of her tests I showed up and showed commitment and a wish to spend time with her. The third I would have met had we fit to know each other more so at the right time yes. I don't resent doing any of this nor wish to take it back. I think I made mistakes when J was with her and I think she should have thought what was more important to her having marriage & family of shopping. I think resent would be too strong a word to my feelings about her shopping more displeased that she disregarded my position on the subject. I appreciate Boethius is enlightening me that I might have got this girl wrong but I still am unsure on it. It's just a bizarre situated mean whatever happened to just dating and getting to know & be with each other.

[Davo2]

Trench all these concerns are over anyway, now you're concentrating on women your own age, but I think you should be getting on skype soon as the woman I'm chatting with said she would never meet a man who she didn't have a good connection with online first. If you have only been chatting with young women who aren't established in life, I think you will have an eye opening experience. I think you're passing up your greatest asset by not chatting with women right now. Women your age are an entirely different kettle of fish. You're probably going to be dealing with women who are divorced and have seen the worse of what can occur in a  relationship, they will be cautious, it might take months online to be comfortable with you and open up.
Mine isn't out shopping today..... She woke at 6am and baked all morning, now she's at a fund raiser for the local orphanage, that pretty much sums up her selfless personality and the way she was raised. She couldn't care less for designer clothes and material possessions, she'd probably donate them to the needy : )

[msmob]

I’m not a FSUW. But I do know a number of them, most of them married to FSUM, and a slight majority live in the FSU, with zero desire to leave. Including a number of single mothers.

Point taken re your status..!

[Nightwish]

I mean getting a visa for the UK is a serious pain in the ass.

such bullshit, I took Tanya to London to do some Christmas shopping, it took the travelagency 7 days to obtain a Visa for her and the cost was about $150.
one bank statement and a deceleration of employment was all that was needed. and taadaaaa and she got her visitor visa.

Now I know, 150 bucks are way to much for you to spend on something like this, that is most likely the reason you say its a pain in the ass...

[Trenchcoat]

such bullshit, I took Tanya to London to do some Christmas shopping, it took the travelagency 7 days to obtain a Visa for her and the cost was about $150.
one bank statement and a deceleration of employment was all that was needed. and taadaaaa and she got her visitor visa.

Now I know, 150 bucks are way to much for you to spend on something like this, that is most likely the reason you say its a pain in the ass...

Her bank statement & declaration of employment or yours? The girl I was last with did not have a bank account and her job was very low pay, it also like many Ukrainians apparently not on the record for tax purposes - i.e the black economy. So it would be down to me to apply with my financial background for her.

Anyway, she quickly started looking for another guy online when the situation came to loggerheads of whether I visit her or she me. Her dating profile started showing activity on a daily basis and she didn't even tell me. I do not take that as a good sign. It tells me she would easily go behind my back be deceitful and she is not that into me.

[Trenchcoat]

Trench all these concerns are over anyway, now you're concentrating on women your own age, but I think you should be getting on skype soon as the woman I'm chatting with said she would never meet a man who she didn't have a good connection with online first. If you have only been chatting with young women who aren't established in life, I think you will have an eye opening experience. I think you're passing up your greatest asset by not chatting with women right now. Women your age are an entirely different kettle of fish. You're probably going to be dealing with women who are divorced and have seen the worse of what can occur in a  relationship, they will be cautious, it might take months online to be comfortable with you and open up.
Mine isn't out shopping today..... She woke at 6am and baked all morning, now she's at a fund raiser for the local orphanage, that pretty much sums up her selfless personality and the way she was raised. She couldn't care less for designer clothes and material possessions, she'd probably donate them to the needy : )

Thanks Davo well according to the guys on here a woman will often meet up with a foreign guy if in her city as it is covenient for her to do so. Note meet up rather than string of dates though that may come. I think I need to see other women to see how I feel. A materialistic one is a real pain in the bum. It's nice to hear your story of this woman Davo as it shows they are not all like that. My concern with the one I had is that her shopping habits would be a constant problem if she came over here. I still kind of like her even with all her issues but there may be a better fit out there for me and yes one who displays better values like you have seems more a preferably situation to be in

[Nightwish]

Her bank statement & declaration of employment or yours? The girl I was last with did not have a bank account and her job was very low pay, it also like many Ukrainians apparently not on the record for tax purposes - i.e the black economy. So it would be down to me to apply with my financial background for her.

Anyway, she quickly started looking for another guy online when the situation came to loggerheads of whether I visit her or she me. Her dating profile started showing activity on a daily basis and she didn't even tell me. I do not take that as a good sign. It tells me she would easily go behind my back be deceitful and she is not that into me.

so........ you mean your finances are so bad you cant even support a woman coming to visit?
then, how do you intend to take care of a woman if she decides to move in with you?
All your cheap comments about finances is starting to clear up a bit here, and the reason why you want her to start working day 1 and take care of herself..

[Trenchcoat]

so........ you mean your finances are so bad you cant even support a woman coming to visit?
then, how do you intend to take care of a woman if she decides to move in with you?
All your cheap comments about finances is starting to clear up a bit here, and the reason why you want her to start working day 1 and take care of herself..

No my finances are fine but the whole process is a lot of form filling and paperwork on my side. It's just far easier for me to jump on a plane and visit her in Ukraine all visa free. I don't see why there has to be such an ordeal about it all.