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Author Topic: Trench's Questions and Philosophies  (Read 19875 times)

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Offline Jumper

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #375 on: December 05, 2017, 12:17:43 PM »
Hi Boethius

AKAIK, there's no charter holidays to Egypt from RU, still  - those going must arrange tours via Belarus - or fly via Turkey - booking direct.

Not sure on details of travel, I'm sure you are spot on,  but when I was in sharm el sheik, it was full of mostly Russian and Ukrainian tourists.
So yeah I never thought much about it to see then with photos from Egypt , or Cyprus as you well know.  :)
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Online gaspar227

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #376 on: December 05, 2017, 12:32:44 PM »
Jumper, Ukrainian or Russian posting?

Offline Jumper

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #377 on: December 05, 2017, 12:58:10 PM »
Jumper, Ukrainian or Russian posting?

I'm not sure I follow exactly.
My wife is from Nikolaev, Ukraine.
The agency site the profile was on was one of the well known(And despised) PPLs based in the USA as most are.Actually it was on several big name sites.
  They all have the same business model of using affiliate local agencies in the FSU
to supply their websites content,(And allows them culpable deniability)

My point was so few men travel,  in relation to the amount of womens profiles listed, (or single women from regular fsu based dating sites)regardless whether it's to a provincial city in Russia or Ukraine, or to a more business hub like Moscow or Kyiv, that it won't matter.
 And ultimately it will still come down to you winning her heart, or not, just like domestic relationships ;)
Most women you'd meet there (anywhere in the fsu) havnt met a foreign man romantically, yes some would have, if she's still single ,why would it matter?
By far the biggest competition for any sincere woman is going to be the local men. They far out number you in any FSU city big or small . Lol


If a guy sweats a city , because of competition thst  it may have more foreign  men visiting,  he missed that train back 2 decades ago lol.
I saw piles of German businessmen in kharkiv and dnepropetrovsk back in 1999.A guy would be just  a tad late in the game to try and fish in perceived non-fished waters.


« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 01:16:35 PM by Jumper »
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Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #378 on: December 05, 2017, 01:42:56 PM »
I'm not sure I follow exactly.
My wife is from Nikolaev, Ukraine.
The agency site the profile was on was one of the well known(And despised) PPLs based in the USA as most are.Actually it was on several big name sites.
  They all have the same business model of using affiliate local agencies in the FSU
to supply their websites content,(And allows them culpable deniability)

My point was so few men travel,  in relation to the amount of womens profiles listed, (or single women from regular fsu based dating sites)regardless whether it's to a provincial city in Russia or Ukraine, or to a more business hub like Moscow or Kyiv, that it won't matter.
 And ultimately it will still come down to you winning her heart, or not, just like domestic relationships ;)
Most women you'd meet there (anywhere in the fsu) havnt met a foreign man romantically, yes some would have, if she's still single ,why would it matter?
By far the biggest competition for any sincere woman is going to be the local men. They far out number you in any FSU city big or small . Lol


If a guy sweats a city , because of competition thst  it may have more foreign  men visiting,  he missed that train back 2 decades ago lol.
I saw piles of German businessmen in kharkiv and dnepropetrovsk back in 1999.A guy would be just  a tad late in the game to try and fish in perceived non-fished waters.

Jumper, your luck was in there big time then herring a girl from not just a PPL site but also from the very heart of the 'dating industry' aka Nikolaev (Gaspar - by 'dating industry' we mean the bad side of the business). She is quite a stunner as well though I am supposing her photo is given the makeover. So how did this all go down? And how did you manage to get an agency girl from a PPL site without being burned as nearly all that try this route? Was it that there was just the attraction on meeting? Was it long ago?

Also Gaspar just to clarify Moby taking issue with my stance on holiday photos. I did say there are some exceptions such as Turkey & the like, that it is a matter of being subjective that you learn with time. Yes Russians & Ukrainians can be found all over the world but for most FSU folk it is too expensive - their focus is on daily survival not globe trotting. When you visit countries like Ukraine look around you and tune in - you will notice that with some exceptions they are not all that wealthy. If I were looking at a girls photos and she had several of places in the west then I would be cautious, if she didn't have a very high status well paid job then I would be even more cautious. There no absolute hard and fast rules as Jumpers situation shows but by not following the often resounded conceived wisdom of the consensus of members on here nearly all men fall foul, it's just the odd few get real lucky every once in a while I think.

Online gaspar227

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #379 on: December 05, 2017, 01:44:40 PM »
I only asked out of curiosity. A knockout like that in Ukraine I would have thought would have met more people. Not anything More than just a reference point, and I 100% understand RM thing. It's not about competition, I'm fine w that.  Power to em!

Question about total costs. What is the estimate, outside of normal costs like food, travel. What does the process cost like legal, administrative, customs, visa, translating? I saw the visa costs like 500ish? Is there a turnkey service for this?

And yeah, I'm thinking a lot of costs. As far as the domestic violence thing and support - I get this is worst case- but considering what American girls are capable of... What happens if you marry, then Get divorced quickly or dv is accused?  Is it typical that you have a prenup? How can you protect yourself short of selecting wisely? I can't imagine how awful it would be to be stuck paying for some chick that made dv charges up, or for some lawyer to come after half my stuff for what amounts to a few months of nookie.

Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #380 on: December 05, 2017, 02:37:19 PM »
...or for some lawyer to come after half my stuff for what amounts to a few months of nookie.

Hear, hear :D

Offline Jumper

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #381 on: December 05, 2017, 02:40:41 PM »
I only asked out of curiosity. A knockout like that in Ukraine I would have thought would have met more people.

I dint take it any differently.  :)
I posted it exactly to show that the women just don't get the visitors you might imagine, regardless relative  attractiveness,,age, location ,that Ukraine isn't over run with foreign men.lol
Nikolaev just isn't far from Odessa, a popular tourist city.
Granted a TC asked about, her photos were a tad enhanced like all such agencies do,but still a very attractive 28yo , and men are men, and not one foreign man had bothered to go meet her, certainly thousands wrote,but none traveled.
My point remains don't concentrate on eliminating some city,country,  or region ,over such thinking. None of the things men commonly  dwell about are the real root issues.
Eliminating areas to look, when using international dating to expand your possibilities is counter productive . Dont do it.

Look for the woman, where she lives isn't the important factor in such a search.


Quote
Question about total costs. What is the estimate, outside of normal costs like food, travel. What does the process cost like legal, administrative, customs, visa, translating? I saw the visa costs like 500ish? Is there a turnkey service for this?

And yeah, I'm thinking a lot of costs. As far as the domestic violence thing and support - I get this is worst case- but considering what American girls are capable of... What happens if you marry, then Get divorced quickly or dv is accused?  Is it typical that you have a prenup? How can you protect yourself short of selecting wisely? I can't imagine how awful it would be to be stuck paying for some chick that made dv charges up, or for some lawyer to come after half my stuff for what amounts to a few months of nookie.

You need some disposable income,that's certain.
You absolutely do not need to be wealthy, that's total B.S..
Each individual will be different. A guy with a home paid for
And minimal debt load ,is in a different scenario from a guy with double the salary, but triple the debt load.
 
 You can't realistically protect yourself other than choosing wisely.
A good person, if good character isn't going to screw you over.
Take whatever time(and expense) is needed to really know  the person
 as best you can.

There are a million threads here in prenups. LOL!

I won't even go there as far as advice.its just  too individual and circumstantial regarding personal finances, whether prior children or a family business is involved, what state you reside in, etc etc etc etc etc

I'll just say I did not have one,  or need one with my ex, after 7 years we parted amicably and absolutely fairly in both parties opinion.
I do not have ,want, or need one currently either.


As far as travel, I viewed it as certainly  not her problem I choose such a long commute for a date.lol
I did not find it expensive,compared to any other vacation,
But I've lived in several countries , including eastern europe,and nothing was really new to me there
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 11:23:37 AM by Jumper »
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Offline Jumper

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #382 on: December 05, 2017, 02:45:13 PM »
Hear, hear :D


If it's viewed by the guy as a risk vs reward scenario over a few months (or years?)of sex, with a hottie, he is likely to get exactly  what he fears.
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Offline Jumper

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #383 on: December 05, 2017, 03:09:08 PM »
Jumper, your luck was in there big time then herring a girl from not just a PPL site but also from the very heart of the 'dating industry' aka Nikolaev (Gaspar - by 'dating industry' we mean the bad side of the business). She is quite a stunner as well though I am supposing her photo is given the makeover. So how did this all go down? And how did you manage to get an agency girl from a PPL site without being burned as nearly all that try this route? Was it that there was just the attraction on meeting? Was it long ago?


We have been married 6 years, initially met in 2010.

I did not post a trip report, or a how it worked out,as I don't think men should follow that path,but as I said during rwrecruiters Trip report , some have done so, several members here are married to women from Odessa or niko,after  an initial meeting on a ppl site,as poor of a method as it is.

I do think luck plays a role, but only as much as you let it ;)
  I met and married  prior,  as well,and it's not like we did not have a good relationship for several years, or some train wreck ending.
We ultimately just had different goals in life and views on priorities.
That's more  on me as her, and regardless two people can care about each other that are not truly compatible.Life happens.I matured from the experience,she did as well. Anyway, to say i just got lucky in meeting sincere FSU women twice seems a stretch, but hey, perhaps it was only luck.
:)
You'd have to throw out that i met a smart,wonderful, stunning  irish woman in 88,and married her, as just luck as well right?
Maybe I just like accents.

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Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #384 on: December 05, 2017, 03:35:54 PM »
I guess something is happening for you jumper though without knowing your exact situation it's not always easy to say what. At 28 your girl was like RW's in the retirement package needed age bracket for agency girls. Interesting that no one ever visited her - it probably is lowish a figure though depends if she's telling the truth. If she said no one visited then she may look less of an agency girl so less bad vibes.

I know from being to Nikolaev they don't seem to get a lot of foreigners there, a few business people from time to time and I guess guys like us. Although nearish to Odessa the airport is not operating there and it kind of feels a little desolate when compared to Odessa. Odessa too I think has a few more foreign visitors but is still mostly home crowd that go there for holidays.

Personally with pics I would much rather have personally taken unprofessional pics any time tells me so much more. Pro pics that have had any sort of make over done is almost like putting a kind on blindfold on. I think from when you were looking was coming to the end off the PPL era and onto pa monthly then free sites. I looked briefly online around 2008 and did a cheap PPL site. Did a Skype with a girl that seemed to go well but when trying to separate her from the agency (get her email things went dead). I think perhaps the agency (or a worker working on her messages probably intervened).

Gaspar, I think you asked about Asians at some point. All I will say is to many FSW they ate not that keen on them, not as in keen as Turks but still get tend to go for WM. Some if they are wealthy enough will go for anything ;)

Offline Jumper

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #385 on: December 05, 2017, 04:44:53 PM »
Lol I don't take offense,  so don't worry.

A couple of things-
1. One of my wife's friends is the most popular
woman for niko in the agency. She's 36.
Another is an interpreter and popular member and 35.
Yes the agencies recruit young women as it's both were they are the most likely to get more profiles up and what many men want,but no it's not some need to retire deal for women over 26,as the agency will gladly put them up.Many of their target men are older, somewhat sensible, so are looking in an older age range than university students.

2.As far as meeting foreign men, my
Wife would have absolutely  zero reason to not be honest.
I already knew quite well the agency deal, and friends with a prior owner of one, she knew that well.
I wouldn't care even the slightest then, or now.
She's at an international dating agency, for heavens sake the entire point is to meet people.
The fact she hadn't would be of far more concern!!
We joked around easily about all kinds of things,then,and I've known her friends and family now for years, so no, lol she never met a foreigner.

The most popular one mentioned above?
Has met about 7 in a decade if being at the site.
She was seriously interested in a couple,  and was with them awhile,  but ended up not working out.


Perhaps it's niko is slightly out of the way,
But in general the bulk of women listed anywhere, in any FSU city havnt met many, if any foreign men for romance. Thru work is more likely perhaps.
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Offline ML

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #386 on: December 05, 2017, 05:38:54 PM »
Quote from: msmob on December 03, 2017, 10:21:05 PM
    AKAIK, there's no charter holidays to Egypt from RU, still  - those going must arrange tours via Belarus - or fly via Turkey - booking direct.


Not sure on details of travel, I'm sure you are spot on,  but when I was in sharm el sheik, it was full of mostly Russian and Ukrainian tourists.

You are probably referring to BEFORE the Russian airliner was blown up.
Before, tons of Russians going to Egypt.
After . . . that's when the tour operators mostly stopped as Moby said.

I took a tour from Ukraine to Egypt back in 2009 or so.  Glad I got that under my belt, as I likely won't go back again.
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Offline Jumper

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #387 on: December 05, 2017, 06:28:47 PM »
Yes, it was prior to that.

At any rate ruling out people from profile, vk, odno, mamba travel photos before contacting them seems a tad over sensitive.
No one loses a limb if the initiated  conversation reveals she's just in the dating scene for travel.

Thailand was a popular destination as well?, travel photos more often than not just mean  she traveled.
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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #388 on: December 06, 2017, 12:05:25 AM »
Trench, the only 'fool' may well be YOU!

My younger sister wasn't THAT academic - but has always been diligent- and went into a career in the legal  profession. She chose - LONG ago - to follow that path over settling down and having kids - preferring to be a kind aunt to her nieces. Her fellow Uni students - with whom she shared accommodation - and are still close friends - have mostly gone on to have careers - like Vets, Doctors and managed to have kids.

From a FSU  woman's perspective - according to my former Wife - coming to the west 'opened her eyes' to the possibility that the society she grew up in ( the man provides, etc) now seems flawed ..she now has her own business, provides for herself, etc., Is she a 'feminist'? - no way.

Moby, you can't nearly double the workforce & there be no affect on society. Yes some women will be able to have teir cake and eat it but the more women that become career women the leas they will be able to do this. Have a look at graphs for income publushed recently for the current generation they are earning far less than there equivalents (their parents) in the 60s, 70s & 80s - cost of buying a home has gone trough the roof too so earning less to afford housing. It's the have it all culture of women that is meaning far more in western society are losing out. It sounds all lovely that specific cases of this or tat woman have been liberated and become absolutely fabulous. Reality is for fewer & fewer women this is the case they toil away day after day in mediocre low paid first step 'career' jobs either that are dressed up with a fancy title to make them feel the part or they dress it up themselves. The guys are often in the same mind numbing numbers, poorly paid or have fallen out off the rat race. Hell even the papers back me up on this one like that article link I shared to Gaspar that stated a lot of blue collar guys are passed over by blue collar girls as they are seen as not good enough and even a fair amount of wealthy men aren't. Look what happened with you and your wife Moby, essentially she got all of that which you stated and you became not good enough. Do you think Russian society would allow that? No she admits that herself - she would have not outgrown you if you chose to live in Russia. She would still be looking up to you as the breadwinner and would know nothing of what she could get in the west. You made the mistake of letting her get on/get too familiar with how things are in the west which is why you in the end got returned to go on the FSU dating game.

We in the west are programmed with relentless propaganda promoting feminist values and we rarely realise it. We think that is the way society should be tat we are open and liberated when at the end of the day it is just socoal conditioning of  the lower orders. Just look at how feminist content pops up every so often on BBC news, it influences society and guides how it wants us all to act and think - to our benefit I think not.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 12:11:32 AM by Trenchcoat »

Offline Jumper

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #389 on: December 06, 2017, 07:50:59 AM »
TC-
Women have been a huge part of the work force in FSU culture for decades.
I know  many women there supporting their husbands or carrying an equal load of financial family matters. My wife would certainly support us if I wasn't working.
(She has a career and education easily transferable to in demand and decent pay here, and worked here prior)

 That doesn't dispute your claims of the job market being less than the available employees, but it does show how most *blue collar* FSU women live, and think.

 On your thoughts on women entering the labor force in the west, the unemployement rate in western countries ,industrialized nbations fluctuates with economy and changes in industry from ag, to tech, etc  far more than it has over those social changes?

In Asia where women have long been a huge part if the industrial and ag. work force
The unemployement rate is seldom different, or in many cases lower than in the west?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by
_unemployment_rate#/media/File%3AUnemployment
_rate_map_of_the_world_(ILO).svg

Perhaps you have a point as the number of available workers in any  given trade vs the amount needed has to balance,  but you seem to have overlooked other factors, such as -
one person having the *earning/purchasing potential * for 2 people aspect of economy versus each individual having that potential. Yes they may both make less but spend the same or more?

I believe it to be a bit more complex than *feminism has taken jobs" lol


 
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 04:32:57 PM by AnonMod »
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Offline kynrazor

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #390 on: December 06, 2017, 08:28:51 AM »
Look what happened with you and your wife Moby, essentially she got all of that which you stated and you became not good enough. Do you think Russian society would allow that? No she admits that herself - she would have not outgrown you if you chose to live in Russia. She would still be looking up to you as the breadwinner and would know nothing of what she could get in the west. You made the mistake of letting her get on/get too familiar with how things are in the west which is why you in the end got returned to go on the FSU dating game.

 :o Shots fired.

We in the west are programmed with relentless propaganda promoting feminist values and we rarely realise it. We think that is the way society should be tat we are open and liberated when at the end of the day it is just socoal conditioning of  the lower orders. Just look at how feminist content pops up every so often on BBC news, it influences society and guides how it wants us all to act and think - to our benefit I think not.

I don't see why it's anything new. :popcorn: Fight for female rights and participation has always swung from one extreme to the other throughout history. There was a time when men could have as many wives as they could financially take care of  ;D and no woman would bat an eyelid  :P
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 08:35:43 AM by kynrazor »
Sincerely,
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Offline Jumper

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #391 on: December 06, 2017, 09:02:08 AM »
Some cultures are still somewhat that way?

For myself I'm glad my wife is *westernized* and assimilated easily.
She is certainly far far from a feminazi, quite conservative,so I think
those type of fears are unfounded and based in inexperience
with FSU women and FSU culture.
They have been in a workforce environment for decades
and often take care of all matters of the household.
  The stereotype of a stay at home ,subservient mother
is not FSU culture, and just the marketing fodder of MOB agencies.
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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #392 on: December 06, 2017, 09:18:50 AM »
Kyn you're dead right. Females in the UK, US, etc have been sent on a fools errand. They don't see that by pursuing a career they are scuppering their own boat. They are going all out to provide for themselves - a task that used to be handed to the man. When they get to their late twenties to early thirties they ask themselves 'where are all the good men to choose from?' Meaning guys that have/can provide for themselves. They don't like it that a man would come and sponge of the provision they have made, i.e own property, etc. They seem to not realise that ghd man was supposed to provide this. They have mare life harder for themselves and put themselves into a position where virtually no man is suitable for them. The men left are the ones they knocked out in competition to get the plum job or to get a job. They have unwittingly dug theor own grave and will have to remain in work till retirement.

It's true that many of these women get off on getting carried away with the job. Men can do but tend to see it more as a means to an end of providing the money they need for family/comfort. Women are very easy to lead on and a lot of employers see this and target this aspect. Women love a pat on the back, recognition and an idea of status - basically a facade that they are something special. All of it is meaningless but they just can't grasp the big picture. One day they are going to retire or be laid off - their employer they will find won't care as they thought. The company that told them how it cares for them in their material to its employees will find its a lot of meaningless words. Shortly after moving on they will quickly be forgotten about along with all their years of hard work.

It's unfortunate that the feminist world that offered so much back in the 70s & 80s forward has only served to bugger both sexes up and cause a lot of loniness & misery. Both sexes in the west have been set against each other hacking the cr*p out of each other only for both to end up the losers. We really need to adjust our thinking in the west as society itself is falling apart.


I do not think I've read such complete crap in my 10 years of reading RWD. New heights indeed.
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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #393 on: December 06, 2017, 09:32:11 AM »
There was a time when men could have as many wives as they could financially take care of  ;D and no woman would bat an eyelid  :P



That practice is still acceptable to a number of women. They'd allow themselves to be a mistress although they claim to want their own man. Many women would prefer to share a winner than have sole possession of a loser.
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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #394 on: December 06, 2017, 11:59:11 AM »

I do not think I've read such complete crap in my 10 years of reading RWD. New heights indeed.


Indeed.  Plus, it is not accurate.  I suppose Trench is unaware of the fact that most women worked long before all those "libbers" gave them options - as domestic servants (where they also had the added pleasure of being raped by their male employers), in factories, in small businesses.  In 19th century England, 2/3 of women women worked for wages.
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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #395 on: December 06, 2017, 02:53:39 PM »
Trench back at it again?  Dude needs to learn how to simplify his thoughts.  Every post he does is 10 rambling sentences.  He seems to like to hear his own voice much more than those who have the actual experience and success in this endeavour.


Offline Anotherkiwi

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #396 on: December 06, 2017, 04:36:10 PM »
I do not think I've read such complete crap in my 10 years of reading RWD. New heights depths indeed.

Try this version...  8)

Offline JayH

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #397 on: December 06, 2017, 06:51:14 PM »

I do not think I've read such complete crap in my 10 years of reading RWD. New heights indeed.

I think it is Manny & A Fi  who created this idiot  & are trying to destroy this forum !! ;D
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Online msmob

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #398 on: December 06, 2017, 07:19:52 PM »


Also Gaspar just to clarify Moby taking issue with my stance on holiday photos.
  :shock: :ROFL:

Not just me, Trench - do try to be accurate.. and take good advice on board...

I did say there are some exceptions such as Turkey & the like, that it is a matter of being subjective that you learn with time. Yes Russians & Ukrainians can be found all over the world but for most FSU folk it is too expensive - their focus is on daily survival not globe trotting. When you visit countries like Ukraine look around you and tune in - you will notice that with some exceptions they are not all that wealthy. If I were looking at a girls photos and she had several of places in the west then I would be cautious, if she didn't have a very high status well paid job then I would be even more cautious. There no absolute hard and fast rules as Jumpers situation shows but by not following the often resounded conceived wisdom of the consensus of members on here nearly all men fall foul, it's just the odd few get real lucky every once in a while I think.

Even more Trench bollox.. you've simply ignored the sensible comments from members FAR more experienced than you.

I know PLENTY of FSU lasses that have been to Italy, Spain, Dominican Republic, Cuba and paid for that holiday of a life-time with their own graft.

It was also pointed out to you that they may indeed have been trips paid for by guys with whom they may actually have been in a LTR or even with their former husbands - but you chose to 'overlook' those pertinent points in your 'advise'  ..

Then again, the trip may have been paid for by 'winners' :sick/vomit:

« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 07:21:52 PM by msmob »
Sod off Photobucket - this punter moved to flickr - rather than being blackmailed

Online msmob

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #399 on: December 06, 2017, 07:23:47 PM »

I do not think I've read such complete crap in my 10 years of reading RWD. New heights indeed.

Oh, I don't know - the post that followed yours wasn't far behind..
Sod off Photobucket - this punter moved to flickr - rather than being blackmailed

 

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