Are age trends shifting?

[2tallbill]

The purpose of this thread is not to revisit the age debate!!! The purpose of this thread is to
discuss what I see as a trend.

A few years ago, if you were to look at the ladies on Elena's models most popular ladies
nearly every one of them was a 18-23 year old eye candy / arm trophy. I logged on to
Elena's today and see that nearly every one of the ladies are older than that.

Todays most popular list ages are 32,32,31,30,34,32,34,33,28,34,29,23,28,23,37,25,27,28,35,41
Two years ago a 41 year old would never be on the most popular list yet today she is and only two
are 23 years old.

Here are some of the reasons that I think this trend (a good trend in my opinion) is happening.

1. I think that the age debate here and on other forums has helped to lead to men looking for a
lady 5-10 years older then they have just 2 years ago. (I think this is a secondary reason not the primary reason)
2. There are more ladies in the 30+ age group searching for a foreign man and as a result quite a few more attractive ladies in the older groups are available.
3. The 18-23 year old have narrowed their age range no longer inviting letters from such older men.
4. The improving economic situation in the FSU has made ladies less likely to accept such large age differences.
5. Computers are becoming more and more common in every age group

I would like to know what other reasons you think affect this trend as well.

NOTE: Hopefully everyone is adult enough (although I doubt it) to discuss this without bringing up old flames wars etc.
I think that the age debate itself has been beaten to death here. If you that you absolutely need to debate the age issue in itself and not the trend in question then by all means feel free to start another thread.

[BC]

How about 'normalization'..

[KenC]

Bill,
Personally I think it is mostly due to your #2.
There are more ladies in the 30+ age group searching for a foreign man and as a result quite a few more attractive ladies in the older groups are available.

When I went to meet Lena back in '98, LTP litterally had only one decent lady listed over the age of 30!  And LTP was a rather large agency at the time too.  I think it may have become more acceptable to women in their 30's and even 40's now than as it was before.  Although most of those 20 year olds in '98 would now be in their 30's too.
KenC

[BC]

I think it may have become more acceptable to women in their 30's and even 40's now than as it was before.  Although most of those 20 year olds in '98 would now be in their 30's too.

I hate to say it.. but 'leftovers' came to mind..

<--cringing

[KenC]

I hate to say it.. but 'leftovers' came to mind..

<--cringing

Or pros.
 
KenC

[timothe]

I hate to say it.. but 'leftovers' came to mind..

<--cringing

My last trip was in October and I met quite a few trophy hunting men on this trip and one 44yr old pro-dating Ukrainian woman.  I contend with my anecdotal evidence that the quality of the person doing this has gone down on both sides. 

Nonetheless, I still think the "leftovers" in FSU are significantly more tasty than the "leftovers" here.  But it might be harder to find the treats that have not been spoiled than it was when I was hunting in 2002.   

[BillyB]

I can't comment on the ages of popular ladies at Elena's models then and now but IMO there are better looking ladies at Elena's models now than in the past.

I've heard that less women are signing up at agencies but it seems dating sites are doing well. I think the best answers of the amount of young women are signing up at agencies then and now would come from agency owners.

Go to bride.ru and the vast majority of women are still young. No trend changes there.

[Gator]

I vote for "young dyevs finding a lot of green in their own pond" and "aging leftovers" (hilarious, BC).

Some leftovers may indeed be married, etc. and have not been eliminated from the data base, yet the agency's computer hikes their age automatically each year.  While EM may cull its lists, I imagine many others do not.  I recall a RW whom I dated and who later married was still listed with AFA.

Your Numbers 3 and 4 are plausible reasons if it means that older men are now hunting older women and this has encouraged older women to sign up and turn out.

However, I discovered in my last and final attempt that many of these new broads are particular about acceptable ages for men.  I got turned down more by older women in 2007 than I did by younger women in 2002.

[SANDRO43]

I had noticed, and remarked here, a general increase in 40+ y.o. FSUW profiles more than a year ago, IIRC, venturing another possible explanation:

6. Their 20 y.o. daughters recommended them to try the new approach .

But maybe the daughters have done that not out of filial concern for their lonely mommies, but to get 50+ y.o. WM finally out of their hair .

[alantodd]

Russia and Ukraine have a lot better economy today than 4 years ago.  There are a lot of Russian men who now make a very good living.  I know a lot of good Russian men.  Very family orientated.

Women now have a lot more options and living in Russia or Ukraine is not a bad option for the younger generation.  You will see less age gaps as these economies get stronger.

I have friends who married women from 1998 to 2003 from Russia and Ukraine and had a huge age gap with their husbands.  This is only going to happen in 2008 with very attractive women if the man is rich or is some type of celebrity.  I am referring to women less than 26 years of age at marriage who marry more than 12 years there age.

I do very well but my fiance dated several Russian men who earn several million $'s a year.  She just did not like the age gap of these Russian men.  She realized that a man more than 12 years older than her in most cases would not be in touch with her future children.  We have almost an 8 year age gap which I think is acceptable but 5 would be better.

There is always exceptions but I have not seen a man marry a very attractive Russian women who is more than 12 years older than him who was not rich.  There is one person on this board who has a very attractive younger wife but he did very well in his life and I see that they have no children together.  Plus this marriage was several years ago..

This is not to be offensive and my point of view.  The 40 year old man who is not rich is not going to marry a very attractive women in Russian under 25 years of age anymore.  That fantasy is over. 

I do see the possibility of an attractive woman with several children marrying much older.  This woman already has her children and wants a good man no matter their age.  Not many women fit this category.

[Lily]

Bill,
Personally I think it is mostly due to your #2.
There are more ladies in the 30+ age group searching for a foreign man and as a result quite a few more attractive ladies in the older groups are available.

When I went to meet Lena back in '98, LTP litterally had only one decent lady listed over the age of 30!  And LTP was a rather large agency at the time too.  I think it may have become more acceptable to women in their 30's and even 40's now than as it was before.  Although most of those 20 year olds in '98 would now be in their 30's too.
KenC

I tend to think this would be the reason.

It might be the case that women in 30+ have been recently out of some unhappy relationships, and want to explore other options.

The 30 + also may think that the local dating market just does not leave them any options at home, therefore they target west.

Last but not least, these days I see many more women who take care about themselves and are therefore able to look great despite their age. More than a decade before, let's say. With their assets, those women are pretty much marketable to men. However, as it has been discussed here, at home they hardly have any chances.

The word 'leftovers' looks funny to me     

[groovlstk]

There is always exceptions but I have not seen a man marry a very attractive Russian women who is more than 12 years older than him who was not rich. 

I know of at least one lucky SOB.

My Russian wife is extraordinarily beautiful and 15 years younger than I am. I make a very good living - but I'm far from rich. 

[I/O]

Discussed this whole thing with Mrs I/O a couple of nights ago and it was very interesting to hear some of her more open comments on the subject now she has been around this block with me.

In perspective, she comes from Omsk which IMO is about the pick of the Siberian cities by a good distance, speaking economically, constructions standards, modern shopping centres and so forth. By comparison with Novosibirsk for example, there is no comparison. Omsk too far in front to even speak of. It is not Moscow and it Is not St Pete, but in most aspects it is not too far behind. My point is she is comming from a fairly modern, well appointed location.

She shocked me with some of her remarks.

1) She considers 75% of marriagable aged women, say 19 - 45, broadly speaking, will to some extent, realistically consider a foreign man. Whether or not they ultimately go that route is another question.

2) She points out that 10 years ago, a handful of people in Russia could access the internet in any form. Usually they were Uni students or of that age. Those people are now 30 or more.

3) Those, example a friend of hers, 36, 1 child and not a half bad catch, is just now moving to the internet because she has become more computer literate. She is now a genuine propect for a decent guy and she ain't 21.

4) She thinks that improving economics are increasing the number of women seriously interested in a foreign man and not the other way as we might expect. :hairraising: Why? Because better finances have given some women home computers etc and they now have the means to devote the time to this idea they deem necessary.  Big clue here guys....what she is effectively saying is that serious women always knew that 1 visit wonder relationships were not what they were looking for, so they didn't put themselves in that risk group. They simply stayed away from the scene altogether. And.......these women she speaks of will not be in the 21 Y/O age group. They have worked a while and have themselves established to some extent.

5) Taking the above into account, (Information access via the internet etc) she considers the whole idea is less frightening to many women because they can freely access information on various forums and such like from their own countryfolk who have been through the whole deal. She see this as a significant factor in some of the more mature women being prepared to venture this way.

6) Another factor which should be a wake up call to us that she remarked upon was that women now understand more fully that this is a realistic option and although many would prefer a Russian man, they are prepared to forego that in search of the best, Russian or foreign. Yeah before you all jump on me, I know mine failed miserably in her quest to find the best. (Silly girl) Simply the thoughts of one Russian women from one Russian city.

I will add to this that I strongly disagree the quality has gone down. I know a few stunning (In all senses of the word) ladies who would consider a foreign man. But these women are ladies, not 16 Y/O hot arses, although most of these ladies have not half bad arses anyway, but I think you get my point. The number of sleek sexy photos might have gone down but I ask someone to show me real evidence the quality of available Russian women has gone down. My personal, on the ground observations suggest the opposite and I am not limiting my observations to one city.

I/O

[IAmZon]

I have found virtually ALL non-American women (Latin; Eastern European) being vastly more "open" to men that do not fit into an "ad campaign" profile.  Wider age ranges; Different religion, different nationality, even different race.

A couple of months ago, I was with three YOUNG (21 - 26) very pretty, smart, and ambitious girls ALREADY in the USA with many AM trying just as hard to get a date with them as an AW.  It was a BIG beach club in the Hamptons on a Sunday.  One of the girls, observed that the bar tender was looking at me.  Another girl told me, "You should go meet her, she likes you." I declined ..

But this lead to a conversation of "who do you think is attractive."  And we all played.

These girls liked guys that looked like Justin Timberlake - but also VERY regular looking guys too.  I was surprised. In some cases VERY SURPRISED.

We were to meet some of their male friends later that day, and it became obvious that this one guy, Vlad, who was born in the FSU and had become successful in the USA in his own right, was very desirable to all these ladies.

Vlad came later that day.  One of the homliest guys in the joint!!!  But a great personality and a gentleman - and optimistic.

Why I am sharing this?

Because I have concluded that there are personality factors that FSU ladies - in general - value above simply physical appearance.  Moreover, they have a broader understanding of handsome than we in America.   

[KenC]

I tend to think this would be the reason.

It might be the case that women in 30+ have been recently out of some unhappy relationships, and want to explore other options.

The 30 + also may think that the local dating market just does not leave them any options at home, therefore they target west.

Last but not least, these days I see many more women who take care about themselves and are therefore able to look great despite their age. More than a decade before, let's say. With their assets, those women are pretty much marketable to men. However, as it has been discussed here, at home they hardly have any chances.

The word 'leftovers' looks funny to me     

Lily,
Along this same line of thinking, isn't it true that most RM tend to ignore RW in their 30's & 40's and chase the younger ones?  Especially if they have a kid?  If these assumptions are true, it doesn't leave a 30 or 40 years old RW many options for a future long term relationship.  Is it no wonder that more and more women of this age turn to foreign men?

I just checked the LTP site and they had over 162 woman listed today over the age of 30!  A far cry from the 3 or 4 listed back in '98.
KenC

alantodd,
Nice post and some good thoughts expressed.  However, your assumptions that money is the key motivation may apply to most, but not all as Groov and rivardco's post support.  (Trying hard not to take this thread off track and into age gap marriages again)
KenC

[Gator]

Angelica Network has over 18,000 women listed.  I constructed a chart in Excel showing the number of women listed by age (you too could see it if I knew how to attach it but it is not in an acceptable format).

The number of women with the ages of 25-29 is:

-   slightly less than those in the 30-34 age group,

-   slightly more than the 35-39 age group,

-   and 33% more than the 40-44 group.

There are more women in each of the ages 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45 and 46 than age 22.

With regard to "leftovers", 50% of the women were listed in 2004 or earlier.  Considering their distribution, women have been listed for an average of 2.6 years, which is not significant when talking about 20s vs. 30s and 40s.

[DKMM]

To add to this:

I made friends with my fiancee's friends in Russia.  Most of them hinted at me that they would be happy to find a foreign man to marry, even some of these girls that had boyfriends.  Its something that crosses all of their minds and does seem to have grown on the socially acceptable scale of behavior (for women).  the men there are brutal in their own opinions on this.

E seems to know a LOT of girls that have or are considering foreign marriage.  I asked about the trends and since her friends were in their 20's she said most of the men they went with were within 10 years of age, usually in their 30's.  This is probably more common with European/FSU marriages than American ones.

[Jumper]

not been eliminated from the data base, yet the agency's computer hikes their age automatically each year.

I'm sorry to be so jaded..about the RW websites-
 
but i feel this is,and  by large margin, the #1 reason..
the odds that the large sites simply leave a TON of profiles up. regardless if the RW has already married locally or no longer in the process for whatever reason.

some of them have data bases with 40,000 profiles since mid 90's , that automatically age,
if not removed.
and it is NOT in thier best interest to remove them !
with the vast majority of address buyers and email correspondents never getting on a plane.
?

if said keyboard romeo writes 500 women a note,, and 400 dont reply,
he certainly doesn't attribute most of that to the fact they are "ghost profiles."

just how much money does that business generate per year on such a scenerio?

it's a fantastic business model ,if you are a little unscrupulas-
 so dont expect anyone to change it.

 a lot of good points were made
 about more 30 something RW having I-net access,
 and other inrteresting points have been brought up as well..
and i'm sure that contributes..

but
as jaded as i am,
 the over poweringly obviuos one to me is simply greed by the "dating website busines"
and the fact the business model and database is aging. not so much the actual median age of women looking -
and no ,
this is not limited to the RW arena,,
just how many of the US based dating profiles are truly *valid and current *
do you think?  afterall there is no way for someone to really verify,and they wouldn't even think to do so!
 they'd just assume the other party wasn't interested ,
and keep paying thier membership dues ..
it's BIG business, and big business cares about return on investment ..
there  could hardly be a better busines model !!??

take a primal fundamental human  need, and want.
make it easily accesable to the customer, its readily availible
 in thier home and at any time that is  convenient.
it is incredibly conveneint  to pay,
and not expensive to the target market customer,
but very decent margin for the business.
the product itself is virtually "free" to the business,
and restocks itself with almost no reinvestmnt costs.
the product can not be veirified if iot even exists and wil no tb equestioned by at least 90% of the customers.

and best of all -
even the customer base that recognizes the faults in the busines model,
 will likely ,accept it as "that's just how it is", pay up , and still use it .


again sorry for being so cynical..
PT barnum would be so proud.


Actually - i'm just mad i din't think of it first,
 and mad that also if i did, i wouldnt have been able to do it ,
with a silly danged character flaw of wanting to sleep well at night
lol

[Jumper]

This is not to be offensive and my point of view.  The 40 year old man who is not rich is not going to marry a very attractive women in Russian under 25 years of age anymore

well LOL it just seems it would depend a lot on the diffinition of *very attractive*,
 and diffinition of rich.....  pretty subjective stuff, no pun intended.


maybe just a different perspective and i could be wrong..
but  i have plenty of single friends in thier early 40's,
not wealthy,but certainly stable , who do honestly look quite a bit  younger, are handsome and fit,
and know of plenty of 24 yo RW that would seriously consider them for marraige..if they met. that doesnt mean theyd jump at the chance,
or that it would be thier top preference,
 but they would certainly be open to the possibilty.
*shrugs*

(and I would agree that regardless ,the 40yo man would be much better off  not specifically targeting that age group,,not to open that whole can of worms again..sorry )
 

[goforit]

The closing of the age gap between men and women in the west is a very recent phenomenon, historically speaking, and is tied to two things: prosperity and the rise of feminism.

Until the 1950's in the west, when centuries of economic progress began to multiply at an unprecedented rate, large age gaps were not unusual. In most of the world today, large age gaps still are not unusual. The reason is a biological one, when young women most need security, i.e. during the time they are most fertile and wanting children, the men most able to provide are older. And given that women in general mature faster than men, it was a natural match. In general, historically speaking for men, financial stability and maturity go hand in hand.

So it should not be surprising at all, that as economic circumstances improve in the FSU, especially in the larger cities, where the very feminism that many women in the west are beginning to outright reject, is taking root, and economic prosperity heretofore unheard of is happening, that age gaps should narrow.

However there is a very interesting trend in America. Women in their second marriages (when they can find a good man willing to marry them, which is a problem) tend to marry with a bigger age gap. One of the reasons is that economic prosperity among the younger men doesn't seem to bring emotional maturity and stability. So they aren't as easily swayed by romance and good looks and washboard stomachs and all the stuff that does not make for a successful relationship.

On the other hand, outside of the big cities, I doubt the marriage agencies reflect a serious trend. I think there are more eligible older women, and young women will still go for a much older man if they find him attractive (a subjective thing) and financially secure. Even in the US, 40 year old men who really take care of themselves physically and are financially stable tend to have no problem in the late 20's crowd (especially among those who have been divorced), which is saying something in the US, where women have down to the bone knee jerk reactions to large age gaps. Biology, in other words, is hard to deny, even here in the land of radical feminism.

[Misha]

You do have sites in the United States to help young women find their sugar daddy: http://www.sugardaddyforme.com/.

[Turboguy]

However there is a very interesting trend in America. Women in their second marriages (when they can find a good man willing to marry them, which is a problem) tend to marry with a bigger age gap. One of the reasons is that economic prosperity among the younger men doesn't seem to bring emotional maturity and stability. So they aren't as easily swayed by romance and good looks and washboard stomachs and all the stuff that does not make for a successful relationship.

Go, I can't find much to disagree with but I am not so sure about the above.   I find two things in America.   The woman has not taken good care of herself and will go after any man she can get but usually is in a normal age range.   OR   The woman has taken great care of herself and looks quite attractive.   Her first divorce has often left her fairly well off financially so she can go after any type guy she wants and will often look for a guy 20 years younger or so.

[Bruce]

Goforit - great post.  I would add that because of their "reputations" marriage agencies looking to match FSU women with Westerners are having a much harder time recruiting the type of girls we prefer.   Women they have rejected outright in the past they now are putting on their books.  The marriage agencies are struggling to stay afloat.  The internet, widespread personal computers, faster internet connections are all contributing to girls looking on their own.  I suspect the trend will continue and probably only the best or the most corrupt or perhaps a combination of both of the marriage agencies will end up surviving.

[BC]

I just checked the LTP site and they had over 162 woman listed today over the age of 30!  A far cry from the 3 or 4 listed back in '98.
KenC

IIRC, many have mentioned that only a very small percentage of women would actually meet a WM and even smaller amount marry one.

The same women that were interested in this venture 10 years ago have aged 10 years.  I have also noted that the prospective WM seeking RW nowdays seems to be a bit younger than a few years ago..

Those 'hottie' 20's are now in their 30's.

[KenC]

Goforit,
Very impressive second post.  Sure wish you would start an introduction thread so we could get to know you better.  RWD needs all the deep thinkers we can get.  Welcome BTW.

I also agree with your take on second marriages in the US being larger age gaps than the first.  I was one year older than my first wife,  Upon divorcing, I dated women 10 to 15  years younger.  She on the other hand dated men close to her age in the beginning and then 10 to 15 years older eventually.

There used to be a saying that a 40 y.o. woman had a better chance to be killed by a terrorist than to get married.  Unfortunately, the odds have gotten better to be killed by terrorists, but the marriage potential has not improved at all for women that age.  Unless the woman is exceptional (that is younger looking than her age), a single 40 y.o. woman will have to look to men in their 50's or 60's for companionship.  And I say "companionship" because marriage is highly unlikely.
KenC