Do you ever wonder why learning Russian is close to impossible?

[2tallbill]

Do you wonder why learning to speak Russian is impossible?

Grape in Russian has no plural so it’s masculine.

Carrot is feminine for reasons unknown.

Cabbage is also feminine

Tomatoes are masculine

Cucumber is masculine but not for the reason you would think

Apple is neutral gender

Beets is feminine gender

Pears are feminine

Onion is masculine

Bed is feminine

Chair is masculine

Arm chair is neutral gender.

I am sure that others can provide similar examples of how us poor English speakers
with a set of rules (some exceptions I admit) can't grasp Russian?

[Misha]

Do you wonder why learning to speak Russian is impossible?

I am sure that others can provide similar examples of how us poor English speakers
with a set of rules (some exceptions I admit) can't grasp Russian?

Bill,

I am not sure why this is a problem.

The general rule is simple: if ends in a consonant (and consonants include "й"), it is masculine; if it ends in "o" or "e" it is neutral and if it ends in "a" or "я" it is feminine. There are very few exceptions. The main problem are the words ending in the soft sign ("ь") as they can be either masculine or feminine.

[Simoni]

All I know is that Spanish is very easy to learn compared to Russian...

[SANDRO43]

Bill, in this connection German is even worse, since word endings give no clue to their gender, as they do in Russian. I remember that when I studied the beast a lifetime ago, I had to devise little mnemonic schemes like the one below to serve me as gender reminders .

[mendeleyev]

Hi Bill,

Good news, you are in the process of learning and it will pay off.  My hat is off to you for putting in the effort!  Be consistent and you'll be rewarded.

The genders are simply a grammatical catagory.  The exceptions have to be memorized; nouns such as Uncle (Дядя), Papa (Папа), Grandfather (Дедушка), and Man (Мужчина) also look like feminine nouns but are naturally masculine.

It will get much tougher as you begin to learn how to assign cases to nouns (there are 6 cases), but if you keep your nose to the grindstone you'll eventually find yourself knowing a language that few in the West ever tackle and your wife and her family will give you an honourary Order of the Red Star for your efforts!

Once you learn how to make nouns plural there will be no genders for plurals so that will be nice.


Some FREE resources:

Start here if just beginning: www.russianlessons.net

Grammar issues will go much faster if you have a iron clad grip on the Cyrillic alphabet.  I'd recommend watching these Uncle Davey "Viktor Dmitrievitch Huliganov" YouTube Russian lessons for 16 minutes daily:

A) Alphabet-

Lesson 1 is an introduction and then go to lesson 2: and move forward from three.  There are 10 lessons on the alphabet--if you don't have that iron clad grip on the alphabet then watch all 10.

B) Grammar-
 
After, and only after you have mastered the finer points of the alphabet, then graduate to the 10 lessons on grammar.

To read Russian in the FSU you'll want to learn all 4 forms of the alphabet.  Russian signmakers and publishers routinely mix printed and cursive letters so you absolutely must know both forms.  Printed letters have 2 forms (upper and lower case often look very different) and the Cursive has 2 forms (again upper and lower case are often very different and several letters have more than 2 cursive forms).

C) Here is the best teaching tool I've ever found--period--to learn how to write the Cyrillic Cursive letters.  Just mouse over each letter and watch how the letter is made: http://www.brown.edu/Departments/LRC/RU_writing/index.htm#

D) Alphabet with sound examples: http://www.languageguide.org/im/alpha/ru/

E) Linguists say that if you can master the vowels (5 hard and 5 soft--each has a counterpart) you'll speak with very little of an accent.

[Serebro]

I am sorry for being bad,guys, but I couldn't resist....

your posts reminded me of a funny story that my friend who is a doctor told me.
We have a lot of foreign students  from African and Eastern countries here. So one day when they had a lesson of anatomy a boy from Lebanon said "penis" as feminine
Russian girls had to give him a lesson and explain....

[docetae]

I must admit that learning Russian is not easy but you must understand the logic of the language. Like my teacher said, "80% of language is following rules. Learn this first and you will have time after for exceptions"

The knowledge of German and ancient Greek are helping me a lot to understand this logic too (but Russian will be the 4th language I am learning, 5 if I include ancient Greek which is not spoken)

[Jet]

Do you wonder why learning to speak Russian is impossible?

Not at all! If you watch Mendeleyev's first alphabet link:
Viktor Huliganov clearly explains that the Cyrillic alphabet was invented by a pair of Albanian Monkeys
 

[SANDRO43]

If it can be of any help, here's a little table I concocted to help me remind declensions.

[ISORW]

I don't think Russian is particularly difficult.  Pronunciation is a breeze compared to English...which in itself has so many different ways to pronounce very letter and combination it's ridiculous.

But then again my fiancee teaches Russian and Ukranian and teaches me as well...

[mendeleyev]

Sandro, that is awesome.  Thank you for sharing the chart.

[SANDRO43]

English...which in itself has so many different ways to pronounce very letter and combination it's ridiculous.

That's because English is a 'mongrel' language: http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=4441.msg80887#msg80887

[SANDRO43]

Sandro, that is awesome.

Thank you, I just put together on a single page the information that is usually scattered over several different pages in Russian grammars .

[oldernotwiser]

Thanks Mendeleyev

I spent some time this afternoon using some of the links you provided.

For some reason I believe that  2 tall Bill is perhaps way ahead of me in trying to learn some Russian. 

I am planning a trip again this summer and I am hoping to be able to communicate just a little more in the local language this time.

I think learing the alphabet is helping, but perhaps I am deluding myself.

[FredC]

I've been trying to use Rosetta Stone, but it has been very difficult without the knowledge of their alphabet. I think I'll try using the Utube links before I try tackling any more R.S.

[2tallbill]

Mendeleyev & Sandro

Fantastic Information.

Maybe it could be combined and made a sticky?

Just my two kopecks

Bill

[Lit_1nce]

I am enjoying the YouTube videos on the alphabet... A lesson, a joke, and a song.. awesome !

[mendeleyev]

2Tall, Older, 7 and Fred, I'm not a big fan of Rosetta Stone for a laundry list of reasons.  I use Pimsleur as a teaching tool but usually for pronounciation benefit.  CDs teach you phrases but very little about the how/why phrases are constructed.  And as you know a phrase can change several times in midst of a short conversation depending on grammar, gender of the speakers, etc. 


Learning the alphabet will help you read signs and directions on your trips there. 
Here are just a few examples:

1- One sign advertises sporting goods, the other advertises Zenith
2- Street Arbat (We would say 'Arbat Street' in English)
3- Enter from (the) rear
4- Red Square


BTW, just to underscore the necessity to learn all 4 forms (2 printed and 2 cursive), look at the first photo, on the left.  That is 'sport' just like in English...s-p-o-r-t.  The last letter fools a lot of us.  We think its a small M.  A small Cyrillic M looks like a full cursive u (not to be confused with a cursive 'e' which looks much the same).  This M looking letter is actually a printed form of a cursive T (teh) in lower case.  That is why it is absolutely necessary to learn both printed and cursive.


Its very encouraging to see guys interested in learning Russian!

[SANDRO43]

Mendeleyev & Sandro Fantastic Information. Maybe it could be combined and made a sticky?

I think I'll put both our contributions into the RWDpedia, when Dan solves some after-server-relocation problems afflicting it .

[2tallbill]

I think I'll put both our contributions into the RWDpedia, when Dan solves some after-server-relocation problems afflicting it .

Spasibo, grazie, gracias, thank you,

Bill

[ISORW]

My g/f thinks I'm like a little kid when we go around the city, I'm constantly reading signs and store names, billboards, etc. to practice my pronunciation.  I find that my ability to pronounce written Russian improves greatly doing this but of course you don't have this option in the states.  I will read something then ask my g/f to tell me what I just said.

On a similar humorous note, my g/f buys childrens books for me to read and learn Russian as well.  I read to her on Skype and she corrects me and teaches me that way as well as me using Pimsleur and traditional texts.

[2tallbill]

My g/f thinks I'm like a little kid when we go around the city, I'm constantly reading signs and store names, billboards, etc. to practice my pronunciation.  I find that my ability to pronounce written Russian improves greatly doing this but of course you don't have this option in the states.  I will read something then ask my g/f to tell me what I just said.

On a similar humorous note, my g/f buys childrens books for me to read and learn Russian as well.  I read to her on Skype and she corrects me and teaches me that way as well as me using Pimsleur and traditional texts.

Yeah, I have books that I can also color in. I think that children's learn to read books are the great.

Ya dva kopecks...........my two cents (I used the wrong form)

Bill

[ISORW]

Yeah, I have books that I can also color in. I think that children's learn to read books are the great.

Ya dva kopecks...........my two cents (I used the wrong form)

Bill

LOL Bill you don't look like 2 kopecks...

I believe the correct way to say it is Oo minya yeest dva kopecks .

[SANDRO43]

On a similar humorous note, my g/f buys childrens books for me to read and learn Russian as well.

It may sound humorous, but actually is a shrewd idea that I experimented unwittingly .

When I started studying English in school at 11, I accidentally discovered the original versions of Walt Disney's comics, bought them regularly (our Italian version was/is small, rather than A4, and only some pages were in colour) not because I wanted to learn English, but because I wanted to read better comics . In a few months, I was at the top of my class in English.

The main advantages of this method are that the language used in children's books/comics is usually simple (and often repetitive), and that illustrations may offer a clue to the meaning of words.

Much later I was reading "Punch", and bought a copy of Крокодил: way out of my league then .

[Misha]

LOL Bill you don't look like 2 kopecks...

I believe the correct way to say it is Oo minya yeest dva kopecks .

Вот мои две копейки! Vot moi dve kopeyki! Here [are] my two kopecks!