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Author Topic: Second Meeting - Vacation - Something Rotten In Denmark / Nikolaev...?  (Read 12606 times)

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Offline Boethius

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Why not Nikolaev?


Because beyond visiting someone there, it isn't much to see.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline southernX

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Infoman 

Mate follow 2tallbill and boethius advice and you wont go too far wrong .

There both correct in the information you have got so far imo

SX
Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.

Offline Anotherkiwi

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Why not Nikolaev?

Because beyond visiting someone there, it isn't much to see.

Yup.  I did a day trip from Odessa to meet someone that I'd talked to on the phone quite a lot, and was happy to leave at the end of the day.  Nothing wrong with the people, but the city was definitely the most depressing I've visited in the FSU.

Offline lyndontom

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Only thing that was adamant is that she had no self respect. If i did that to majority of women, i would get blown away. You guys wonder why hot women won't give you time of day, that is because you treat them like meat, and in return you get 10 cents on the buck.


Sorry DK, but your post here shows your naivety and lack of life experience. Not all things are black and white and not everyone shares your view on certain things or feels that a certain path should be adhered to.


If Cal found his wife and they are happy with each other, who are you to judge who has self respect and who doesn't, based on the elite pond you seem to think you're fishing in?

Offline dragonkid

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Sorry DK, but your post here shows your naivety and lack of life experience. Not all things are black and white and not everyone shares your view on certain things or feels that a certain path should be adhered to.

Of course not, when you lack adequate candidates you can't be picky. You let the guy treat you like a tinder swipe. You obviously haven't met a girl who has options, i could do it, but i chose to get 90 cents to the dollar i spend, rather than 10 cents. I noticed this from the guys who do the visit many approach, rather than write to many, visit one, if you don't like go to the next.

Not all of us Brits have terrible teeth, right Msmoby?

Offline lyndontom

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Of course not, when you lack adequate candidates you can't be picky. You let the guy treat you like a tinder swipe. You obviously haven't met a girl who has options, i could do it, but i chose to get 90 cents to the dollar i spend, rather than 10 cents. I noticed this from the guys who do the visit many approach, rather than write to many, visit one, if you don't like go to the next.


I won't get into an argument with you here because there's really no point in trying to bring you into line with rational thinking. All I will say is that I'm also a similar age to you, I'm also from the UK and I'm successful in what I do. With all respect, I also think I'm a tad brighter with more street smarts and common-sense than you've demonstrated here. I can also take on board other people's views without dismissing them without due consideration.


I've seen some of the ladies you posted photos of and messages from that you clearly were into (or "with options" as you describe it) and I can assure you I've been on dates with equally, if not more desirable women in the FSU. Yes, I actually got on a plane rather than dating from behind my keyboard. Admittedly, they weren't all virgins as you demand...



The top matchmakers in the world deliberately place the person they think their client is most suited to in the middle of a series of first dates. The reason beings that when you meet "the one" you feel she is more desirable than the last ladies you met and when you go on the next few dates they will not compare to her. Why do some people date, go their own separate ways and move on only to end up back with each other down the road? It's part of a path of life and sometimes people need to experience other things to appreciate what they had/lost/missed out on/need/want. It's not about self respect or limited options.


As it happens, I just saw an older post by Pitbull in the thread directly below this one the first page which describes exactly such a scenario and is the reality of life.


Sorry to hijack this thread, I just strongly disagree with DK and his idilic and narrow-minded viewpoint on the matter. Just my two cents on the matter.

Offline dragonkid

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I've seen some of the ladies you posted photos of and messages from that you clearly were into (or "with options" as you describe it) and I can assure you I've been on dates with equally, if not more desirable women in the FSU.

[]I dated a few women with children in Ukraine

Yeh i read your posts, you went on a few tours. If you really had options, tours wouldn't be on your agenda, and if you are close to my age, you could find women with kids easily back home on POF.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 01:13:00 PM by AnonMod »
Not all of us Brits have terrible teeth, right Msmoby?

Offline tfcrew

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Or you could meet in Denmark :rolleyes:

Odessa though, is better :)
~There is no one more blind than those who refuse to see and none more deaf as those who will not listen~
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Offline lyndontom

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Yeh i read your posts, you went on a few tours. If you really had options, tours wouldn't be on your agenda, and if you are close to my age, you could find women with kids easily back home on POF.


Never been on a "tour", ever. Clearly you're reading ability isn't too great or your over-hyped imagination is getting the better of you again. I've visited many different cities and met ladies by different methods.


Of course I can find ladies on POF, Match, tinder. If I couldn't and can't, then the same must be said for you? We all have our own idiosyncrasies and reasons for looking in the FSU. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...

Offline lyndontom

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Infoman, you've received some sound advice here and it's clear to see you've taken it on board. Fair play to you for keeping an open-mind and seeing the situation for what it is.


Nevertheless, I am interested to know where guys have met in a neutral city - where sufficient quality meetings have taken place already in the ladies home town - how this has worked logistically. I appreciate it probably isn't rocket science but some guidance on the practical issues would be useful.


Assuming that the two are flying from different countries (Ukraine and USA, UK for example) to the destination and sharing a room, how is the best way to approach booking various elements? Online? To use a travel agency in Ukraine or the mans home country?


Some pointers would be appreciated. Semi-hypothetically I am suggesting somewhere such as Punta Cana, Playa deal Carmen in December - which sadly rules out Odessa as a sunny getaway...

Offline alex330

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Nevertheless, I am interested to know where guys have met in a neutral city - where sufficient quality meetings have taken place already in the ladies home town - how this has worked logistically. I appreciate it probably isn't rocket science but some guidance on the practical issues would be useful.


Assuming that the two are flying from different countries (Ukraine and USA, UK for example) to the destination and sharing a room, how is the best way to approach booking various elements? Online? To use a travel agency in Ukraine or the mans home country?


Some pointers would be appreciated. Semi-hypothetically I am suggesting somewhere such as Punta Cana, Playa deal Carmen in December - which sadly rules out Odessa as a sunny getaway...

Yes, not rocket science as you say. My wife and I did met in neutral cities every 2 months over a period of around 1.5 years. It was exciting, fun planning trips, and romantic, but did drain the bank a bit.

I paid for all trips so arranged everything through American websites online. Depending on country you either book a hotel or an apartment ahead. There are cheaper options to certain countries for those in the FSU, but just made more sense for me to arrange it all on my card.

Usually would let wife pick and let her know what I could afford, etc. Like most FSUW she was quite good at finding deals for nicer places and saving us money.

It turned into a strategy board game like risk after a while. Trying to find the time and place to meet without blowing through money.

We did Punta Cana one trip for NY Eve. It was a bit more expensive as she had no Schengen and had to fly from CDG to DR versus through the US. But it was her first tropical destination so loved it.

The best location in the middle for ius to meet due to logistics and finances turned out to be Turkey. Istanbul is a cheap flight from Ukraine and a major airport hub so likewise for me. Lot to see and do in Istanbul. Two trips there and one to Antalya. We still talk about a return trip to Cappadocia one day.

Offline Boethius

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Istanbul is probably not a viable destination currently.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline lyndontom

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Thanks Alex. As you point out, Istanbul would ordinarily be ideal, given the scope for onward options and especially as there are flights to Odessa, Kiev, Zaporozhye almost daily. But as Boethius points out, not ideal in the current political climate.

I had thought about doing everything myself, I'm used to arranging all of my own travel through my profession. I was just intrigued to know if there was a more streamlined method of doing it, especially where all inclusive resorts, for example, are being used.

Coincidentally, flights to and from Cancun airport from my home city and Kiev arrive and depart at exactly the same time, which certainly helps.

Online Hammer2722

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I would recommend you ask her if it would be possible for her to not bring her 16 yr old. This would allow the 2 of you to spend as much time together getting to know each other.

I would also recommend you bring some kind of translation tool to help you communicate with each other.
every ship can be a minesweeper at least once...

Offline alex330

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Istanbul is probably not a viable destination currently.

You are probably correct given the current climate. Thailand is very cheap right now from the US ($800 last I looked) and there are deals for those living in Ukraine at local agencies.
 
In most cases it just makes the most sense for the man to fly out to Ukraine (or Russia) unless she has Schengen.

Offline alex330

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Coincidentally, flights to and from Cancun airport from my home city and Kiev arrive and depart at exactly the same time, which certainly helps.

Wife and I just did Mexico. Flew into Cancun and drove a bit south. Excellent trip, much better than DR in my opinion. You can find all inclusive travel deals online and the ruins in Mexico are amazing.

The only issue is that all the beaches were covered in Sargasso seaweed which smelled horrible. Cancun itself they clean or is out of the currents path.

Costa Rica all the RW love, but hard to find flights that do not stopover in the US.

Offline LAman

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Infoman, you've received some sound advice here and it's clear to see you've taken it on board. Fair play to you for keeping an open-mind and seeing the situation for what it is.


Nevertheless, I am interested to know where guys have met in a neutral city - where sufficient quality meetings have taken place already in the ladies home town - how this has worked logistically. I appreciate it probably isn't rocket science but some guidance on the practical issues would be useful.


Assuming that the two are flying from different countries (Ukraine and USA, UK for example) to the destination and sharing a room, how is the best way to approach booking various elements? Online? To use a travel agency in Ukraine or the mans home country?


Some pointers would be appreciated. Semi-hypothetically I am suggesting somewhere such as Punta Cana, Playa deal Carmen in December - which sadly rules out Odessa as a sunny getaway...

I am one who didn't mind meeting in different country, though never for first meetings.

There were three points which lead me to advise the OP NOT to have this holiday.

1 Girl had no English speaking skills
2 Involving her child(son)
3 Expecting lady to fork out her airfare

You have to have some kind of close relationship to meet for a holiday without fearing being used for a trip.

In my cases both were different. First was a girl I met once wrote quite often and felt we were moving along on our relationship. She used a travel agency in Odesa and we went to Egypt, of course we met in Odesa for trip( at airport). I paid for all costs. We both had a nice time. We spend close to 1.5 years together before we decided we weren't for each other. Second was someone we clicked quickly on first trip. During one winter I asked if she wanted to see DR. I did all travel arrangements online, for her airfare and hotel together( she needed this), I bought my airfare separate and called hotel to let them know it was 2 people in room. I was also going to meet friends in Costa Rica after this trip, so it was combo trip for me. I guess anytime a girl gets a free trip she is 'elated'!!

Many here would not do as I did. I enjoy having a good time as long as company is good. I do travel often and don't get hung up on the 'looking for wife' talk, if it happens, it happens.
Life isn't tied with a bow, but it's still a gift

Offline Patagonie

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Thanks, Trenchcoat.  Well said, and again, points well taken.  Yes, I was crazy - but you all have woken me up to reality.  Nothing had been booked, so there's nothing lost except for time.  I'm going to explain how it is - nicely - to Natalia, and either she will understand (and want to meet locally for an extended stay) or she won't.  One way or another, I'm know how to proceed - or not - depending on her response.  I feel silly and stupid now...have no idea what I was thinking, or lack thereof.


Andy
Don't do the yo yo (yes no) dance too often with FSU women, because they would drop you at the end like a hot potatoe.
I agree with my fellows here: you don't know her so you date her seriously at home, you look forward for some backup in her city so you can rebound anytime.
You are the man, you decide, you lead and she is not still worth of paying a trip ten grands.
Don't forget YOU decide. But of course you are expected to pay ALL, except if she goes to the market and decide to buy you some bananas because she likes you.
"Je glissais through the paper wall, an angel in the hand, s taboy. I lay on the floor, surgi des chants de Maldoror, je mix l'intégrale de mes nuits de crystal, i belong to the festival.

Offline Patagonie

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Only thing that was adamant is that she had no self respect. If i did that to majority of women, i would get blown away. You guys wonder why hot women won't give you time of day, that is because you treat them like meat, and in return you get 10 cents on the buck.

Not exactly, that's the soul's beauty of FSU women, they are strong minded and are strongly courageous when they are interested in a man, not like their western cousines, who have been raised in the "chut, don't show him that you COULD be attracted to him".
So they are absolutely capable to push their curiosity without any shame and let you clearly know that they want to give you a try and even that's YOU SHOULD give her a try. But please DK, consider and don't forget that they have a real and higher proud than the western ladies.
So when you start to be used to such women things start to become clearer and you forget the headaches you were getting with western women, unless you are good enough in the game to decrypt the BS they are giving you all the time.
At the end the most important is to find a lady seriously interested in you, and finally there are not a lot. And you neeed a woman capable to endure the painful immigration journey. Because, that's a pain in the ass DK, believe me.
"Je glissais through the paper wall, an angel in the hand, s taboy. I lay on the floor, surgi des chants de Maldoror, je mix l'intégrale de mes nuits de crystal, i belong to the festival.

Offline Boethius

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Quote
not like their western cousines, who have been raised in the "chut, don't show him that you COULD be attracted to him".


This may be cultural and again, age related.  From the experiences of my sons, girls (they are not yet really women) have no problem conveying their attraction.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline ML

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And you need a woman capable to endure the painful immigration journey. Because, that's a pain in the ass DK, believe me.

I thought this was only in the USA.
A beautiful woman is pleasant to look at, but it is easier to live with a pleasant acting one.

Offline Patagonie

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I thought this was only in the USA.
Unfortunately not, in France too. Especially to get the visas before boarding to Europe.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 04:08:17 PM by Patagonie »
"Je glissais through the paper wall, an angel in the hand, s taboy. I lay on the floor, surgi des chants de Maldoror, je mix l'intégrale de mes nuits de crystal, i belong to the festival.

Offline Patagonie

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This may be cultural and again, age related.  From the experiences of my sons, girls (they are not yet really women) have no problem conveying their attraction.
All depends of HOW they convey attraction from their point. A point that a lot of guy are not capturing. They do believe that they convey, on just a woman side.
Western women, having a quite good worthiness on the market (lets say this starts at 7), usually play  the hard to get game.
More a woman is wanted and used to be on the field and less the signs she is going to give. That's the answer of the nature when there is scarsity of nice women and too much males. She is protecting her by restricting her attraction output flow  (known as IOI) and using BS (usual tricks) to test and or discourage her suitors. The BS system is the natural alternative solution to replace the old knight's games when it's time to inquiry of male worthiness. And many men fail.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 04:12:41 PM by Patagonie »
"Je glissais through the paper wall, an angel in the hand, s taboy. I lay on the floor, surgi des chants de Maldoror, je mix l'intégrale de mes nuits de crystal, i belong to the festival.

Offline Gator

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Trouble is that I don't know how the 16-year-old son will fit into the scheme of things - for me - so you might wonder why I'm even still pursuing this lady.  To be honest, I have an open mind and thought that when I meet him ON THE VACATION WITH NATALIA - yes, that's true - I would get a feeling one way or the other as far as if this could potentially work or not. 

Infoman, two points: 

1.  The 16-yo son is not as important as you and Natalia.  The development of the relationship should focus on you and Natalia because he is becoming his own person and will be gone from the home in not many years.  If you marry and he emigrates to your home, he will survive.     

2.  I don't feel your relationship has yet advanced to the "let's vacation together."  See her again and spend some time together, just the two of you.  Having the son around will rob time that should be spent on  determining if you are ready to advance the relationship, especially if his English is weak. 

Some have suggested Odessa.  Good idea.  Just you and Natalia.   Get an apartment, not separate rooms at a hotel.  You will save enough to send the son to a summer camp while you and Natalia spend time together.  Meanwhile, Skype with the son if his English supports it. 

If that goes well, see her in the winter in Thailand. 

She will be disappointed, maybe even angry, about the change of plans.  I suggest you apologize.   Explain to her directly you have examined the costs and can not afford it.  If she wants a wealthier husband, count your blessings for  learning this earlier.   

BTW, I have done a few short vacations with a FSUW I did not know well.  One became the "vacation from hell"  (sex had nothing to do with it).  Some were okay.  Only once did I meet the woman again.  Never did I bring the kid.  That came later after deciding to be exclusive. 

Offline Patagonie

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Infoman, two points: 

1.  The 16-yo son is not as important as you and Natalia.  The development of the relationship should focus on you and Natalia because he is becoming his own person and will be gone from the home in not many years.  If you marry and he emigrates to your home, he will survive.     

2.  I don't feel your relationship has yet advanced to the "let's vacation together."  See her again and spend some time together, just the two of you.  Having the son around will rob time that should be spent on  determining if you are ready to advance the relationship, especially if his English is weak. 

Some have suggested Odessa.  Good idea.  Just you and Natalia.   Get an apartment, not separate rooms at a hotel.  You will save enough to send the son to a summer camp while you and Natalia spend time together.  Meanwhile, Skype with the son if his English supports it. 

If that goes well, see her in the winter in Thailand. 

She will be disappointed, maybe even angry, about the change of plans.  I suggest you apologize.   Explain to her directly you have examined the costs and can not afford it.  If she wants a wealthier husband, count your blessings for  learning this earlier.   

BTW, I have done a few short vacations with a FSUW I did not know well.  One became the "vacation from hell"  (sex had nothing to do with it).  Some were okay.  Only once did I meet the woman again.  Never did I bring the kid.  That came later after deciding to be exclusive.

+1 of course let the child out this story now.
"Je glissais through the paper wall, an angel in the hand, s taboy. I lay on the floor, surgi des chants de Maldoror, je mix l'intégrale de mes nuits de crystal, i belong to the festival.

 

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