Age difference from RW perspective

[BC]

Antidate seems to take a negative view of AM in general.

It's the Westernization of the FSU.  They have Oprah style shows on TV there too...
[/quote]

Think I've mentioned it before.. those posting here and on other serious boards are but a very small slice of the pie. An overall negative view might be quite realistic.

[Elen]

Wonder who you call Russian Oprah???:?

Though it does not matter because females' reactions at forums of such kind are not the result of Westernization but a consequence of Western males'  behaviour.

[Jack]

yep, all us Western men are bad Elen.

When are you women from the FSU going to realize that and stop seeking foreign men for marriage?  I guess it's just a matter of time before ladies from the FSU realize that they really do have the best overall men in the FSU and they will probably stop trying to seek this so -called better life that probably western men falsely created.

I guess the jig is up, we've been exposed. Now all Russian women will know that most western men are no good and that they really do not provide many of these women with a better, happier, healthier life's.

[andrewfi]

Jack, they are!

How many women are actively seeking foreign guys in Russia?

30,000, 50,000, maybe even 60,000. Unlikely to be more based upon agency figures for women's success rates and the number of K1 visa applications made.

 

[Elen]

When are you women from the FSU going to realize that and stop seeking foreign men for marriage?

 Have not idea when all those silly girls will stop to flood marriage agencies and you Western males stop to  empty your accuonts in banks through Western Union:P:P:P

As for me I don't play in such games

[Kvinna]

I guess it will be as soon as you WM will stop boosting the brand "Traditional russian wife". As we can see the most of owners of sites with russian brides are westerners who get a good income for selling nonexistent russian women's adresses and e-mails

 

 

[Kvinna]

I guess the problem I'm having is Kvinna trying to create a marriage between her site and this one. I really could care less what those women discuss over there, just keep it there.

 

Dearest JB, I know already your special feelings for me but I never try to harness a horse and a deer in one cart. We have the different targeting audience (if you knew this you would never tell such ridiculous things)

[Admin]

I guess it will beas soon asyouWM will stop boosting the brand "Traditional russian wife". As we can see the most of owners of sites with russian brides are westerners who get a good incomeforselling nonexistent russian women's adresses and e-mails

Kvinna,

You are doing it yet again. You state "As we can see the most of owners of sites with russian brides are westerners . . ."

During my travels through Ukraine I have met many people in business, and many of them ran agencies. While I am aware of a FEW western guys running agencies (Jack, Kevin, Bruno among them), the vast majority of 'agency owners' I have met are Ukrainians. Note: I am speaking ONLY of Ukraine.

So my question to you is simple - what is your basis for making the claim that MOST site owners are westerners?

If you are referencing ONLY those agency owners who ALSO have active websites - then maybe there is some validity to your claim, but I would still like to understand your basis.

TIA

- Dan

[Kvinna]

I guess it will be as soon as you WM will stop boosting the brand "Traditional russian wife". As we can see the most of owners of sites with russian brides are westerners who get a good income for selling nonexistent russian women's adresses and e-mails

Kvinna,

You are doing it yet again. You state "As we can see the most of owners of sites with russian brides are westerners . . ."

During my travels through Ukraine I have met many people in business, and many of them ran agencies. While I am aware of a FEW western guys running agencies (Jack, Kevin, Bruno among them), the vast majority of 'agency owners' I have met are Ukrainians. Note: I am speaking ONLY of Ukraine.

So my question to you is simple - what is your basis for making the claim that MOST site owners are westerners?

If you are referencing ONLY those agency owners who ALSO have active websites - then maybe there is some validity to your claim, but I would still like to understand your basis.

TIA

- Dan[/quote]
 

 Ok, let's count if you wish... I mention here only 3 the famous sites and then you could mention yours

bride.ru - the owners are westrener

AbsolutAgensy - the same, LL - the same, Origin Club, heart2heart and so on... according to our experts today in the Net we can find about 600 agencies and sites with russian brides that were run by westerners and only 300 - by FSU citizens

[Jack]

Hey Andrew, how you doing? Always nice to hear from you.
 
Andrew, I think the number of ladies from the FSU actively and openly seeking foreign husbands is one thing and those ladies who might have such an interest in a foreign man if the opportunity came along is another.
 
Andrew you mention 30,000 , 50,000 and even 60,000 Russian women seeking foreign men as being unlikely. Hell Andrew, one agency alone, AFA, claims to have almost 30,000 of these type women! I think if you consider the large number of ladies on the many various internet websites and those listed with agencies the numbers will greatly exceed the figures mentioned.
 
And what about the great many ladies who are not listed with any agency, not listed on any internet sites who write men from personal ads? I think you and Elen would be amazed.
 
The number of Russian women who will respond to a nice photo and well written newspaper ad is staggering. I think, as with many things, you will have different results in different areas, such as Moscow being one of those areas which would have different results. If you look at the great number of people who live in Moscow, almost 10 million people, and the percentage of eligible ladies who respond to foreign men seeking brides from newspapers compared to other cities such as Novosibirsk, Barnaul, Kurgan, Perm you will see a much higher percentage of replies from these other cities. Why? Well for one thing life is not so bad in Moscow. It's not 1994, 1997, where these lovely ladies were looking for the first ride out of town. On the other hand fine Russian ladies from Togliatti for example are dying to find a prince on a white horse to rescue them, to offer them a better life than what they have, to offer their children a better place to live and be raised.
 
Times are a changing, their is no doubt about that. In my opinion more guys are going to have to get off the beaten path to find the type of lady he once dreamed of.
 
And the typical Russian man of 10-15 years ago is not quite the same today. As in all societies you are going to have your loser's and the average Russian man was not painted in the best light over the last 20 years, but these men are also making strides and improvements. The days of every Russian man having two mistress's are not so common. And although acholism is still a problem amoungest many Russian men, even some improvements are being made there.
 
And to Elen, their will always be the stupid foreign man who thinks his money will buy him a beautiful, model type Russian wife. His thinking of him sending her $200 a month thru Western Union is going to make her want him. Ha! Yea, sure. I have to agree with you, their are a lot of smart, beautiful Russian women taking these guys to the cleaner. Often these men are the first to holler scam. Smart, careful, educated, non-desperate men are not scammed nearly as often.

[Admin]

Ok, let's count if you wish... I mention here only 3the famoussites and then you could mention yours

bride.ru - the owners are westrener

AbsolutAgensy - the same, LL - the same, Origin Club, heart2heart and so on... according to our experts today in the Net we can find about 600 agencies and sites with russian brides thatwere run by westerners and only 300 - by FSU citizens

Kvinna,

My principal point is to ask you to be more circumspect about claiming "fact" when all you are really offering is opinion.

Your opinion is valid - and many here will want to hear, and debate, your opinions - but your opinions are not "fact" unless and until you can substantiate them with objective evidence.

For example, in this post you reference; "according to our experts today in the Net we can find about 600 agencies and sites with russian brides thatwere run by westerners and only 300 - by FSU citizens."

My questions are:

1) Who are your "experts"?
2) Where is the result of their studies that substantiate your numbers?
3) Why are they performing these studies?

I suppose another legitimate question might be; "Who cares - what difference does it make?"

Even if it turns out that westerners are dominant with websites - is that merely because they have greater access to the computing infrastructure to provide this service?

Even if it turns out that westerners are dominant with websites - does that mean that westerners are in some way BAD because of it?

Even if it turns out that westerners are dominant with websites - does that mean the local FSU people are NOT deeply involved with these western agency owners?

In the final analysis, I am just not sure the specific point you raised is all that important.

I am pretty sure that your "facts" are not substantiable, and you might want to be more careful in what you claim as fact, and what you offer as opinion.

FWIW

- Dan

[Jack]

Kvinna, are you sure that Bride.Ru and Absolute Agency are owned by Westerners?
 
About 1.5 years ago I talked with the two owners of Bride.Ru, two men from Moscow. I guess in the past 1.5 years they could have sold their company to some Western interest but I did not hear about this. Can you tell us who the new western owners are?
 
And the Absolute Agency, they were owned by a company out of Visaginas, Lithuania.
 
I think Dan might be on to something about you and your somewhat many inaccurate statements.

[Bruno]

Hey Guys and ladies... it is the 8 March... send flower to all woman today but not a cactus ...


[line]
How many women are actively seeking foreign guys in Russia?
[line]


I don't know for Russia but for all ex-USSR, it is around 100.000 woman... it is not a lot...

[line]
Antidate seems to take a negative view of AM in general.

[line]

Like we have on RWD a lot of negative view of RW... The two site explain a lot of mislute relation and problem... Why ? For try that these don't happen to other... But generaly, in the reality, you have more good story that bad one... several couple already married don't use anymore forum like these two because they don't need it anymore...


[line]
During my travels through Ukraine I have met many people in business, and many of them ran agencies. While I am aware of a FEW western guys running agencies (Jack, Kevin, Bruno among them), the vast majority of 'agency owners' I have met are Ukrainians.
[line]


Dan, during my search for help a woman for remove all his profile from internet, i have see that the real chief are generaly western people... these woman from Ukraine was listed on more that 100 site... around 50 of these site was owned by the ABC group, a business group from Europa... several was from Anastasia Web ( a American group )... of course, the local agency in Ukraine are owner by Ukrainian but the big chief is somewhere in our western country... he is only needed for count the $ earned... these Ukrainian are only manager of local agency who are part of more bigger group... manager and owner are not the same people...

If you wish, i can make the search for several site and see who is the real owner... it will be interesting... my report for next week...

 

[Elen]

And what about the great many ladies who are not listed with any agency, not listed on any internet sites who write men from personal ads? I think you and Elen would be amazed

There is little in this world which would be capable to "amaze" me:P

And actually I thought the point of this discussion was to show you what a huge part of women (I presume according to your own statistic of dates the biggest part) had in their females' minds after dating with WM. But it seems you don't care.

Well such position just leads you to facing more scammers . As for women who don't want to read those anti-date forums such ignorance is the best way to burn their "pink" (or "blue" ) dreams after meeting WM. (in the best case. The worse one would be some borthel in Turkey)


[/size][/font] 

[Elen]

from Togliatti for example are dying to find a prince on a white horse to rescue them, to offer them a better life than what they have

Ah Toliatti! It's "special" case:? You should visit local cemetery to find out where all "princes" dissapeared. I was in shock when they shown it on our TV in programm about car-mafia:shock:. It was a long row of headstones with males' names on them. The majority was not older than 25 year old:?[/size][/font]

[Fiorella]

I think, Kvinna mean that most of relatively small marriage agencies with sites who present "brides" from FSU are runned of women who are married to western men and moved to the West as LL.

The bride.ru and absoluteagency.com was posted by error, just as sites with fishy reputation.

[Kvinna]

My questions are:

1) Who are your "experts"?
2) Where is the result of their studies that substantiate your numbers?
3) Why are they performing these studies?

 

Ольга Маховская Тема нашего сегодняшнего разговора - электронные брачные агентства, которые, на мой взгляд, превратились в технологию выезда за рубеж. На сегодняшний день, если говорить только об американском направлении, работает 600 брачных агентств в США и 200 в � оссии. Это число, на мой взгляд, значительно преуменьшено, потому что брачные Интернет-агентства растут как грибы, поскольку приносят большие прибыли. По некоторым сведениям, брачные агентства находятся по прибыльности на третьей строчке после торговли оружием и наркотиками. Ежегодный доход только в � оссии оценивается в 4,5 миллиарда долларов.
 http://www.svoboda.org/programs/sc/2003/sc.071503.asp

Olga Mahovskaja is an expert from RAN

 

[Jack]

Bruno, you write " Like we have on RWD a lot of negative view of RW". 
 
Bruno, I think their are a LOT of men on the RWD who are quite happy with their experience and life's with Russian women. I think you see a lot of happily married men here trying to help new guys in also finding a good Russian bride. Sure we mention scammers, we would not be painting an accurate over-all picture if we did not. But Bruno, I do not think so many men here have a negative view of Russian women.
 
I have said this for many years, and I could only say this after meeting many good Russian women and some bad Russian women, In my opinion god's gift to man is Russian woman. Period, end of story.
 
Now if man wants to be stupid, marry the first Russian woman he meet's, marry some Russian woman 25 years younger than he, if he is a frog and thinks he is going to marry a princess, then you are going to hear from these men how bad Russian women are, but what you should hear is how stupid he is.

[Bruno]

[line]
Olga Mahovskaja is an expert from RAN
[line]


Pravda, April 29, 2003

Marriages between Russian women and American men are very successful and harmonious, Olga Makhovskaya, the senior research assistant at the Psychology Institute in Russia's Academy of Sciences says. When an American man switches from the model of American family where husband and wife are partners equal in rights to the model of an Orthodox family, he thus raises his own significance. In Orthodox families men are given more authority and are more respected. It is certainly an advantage for a man and raises his social and psychological status. In a word, American men seem to have tired of the feminism propagated by American women, and it is frequent that they seek Russian women to start families.

Russian wives in America give up the traditional model of the Russian Orthodox family which relieves them of a heavy burden of responsibility and gives a chance to have a normal life in a family where the range of responsibilities is more definite for them: children, family affairs and housekeeping. At that, Russian women enjoy more attention and support from husbands.

As psychologists say, now Russian men undervalue the essence of family. The whole of the burden, housekeeping, upbringing of children, earning of money are shifted onto women. And, at the time when Russian women have so much responsibilities, their husbands spend their time dozing in front of TV sets in desperate attempts to find out the meaning of life and to understand the truth of the universe. They merely disregard everyday problems that are essential for their families as they consider the above mentioned idle thinking to be of higher importance.

That is why, as Olga Makhovskaya thinks relations in families between Russian and American partners are more harmonious. Each party gets what it wants to have. Husbands get authority and status, and wives are given, in exchange, peace in family and well-being. "Families of this kind where husbands are Americans and women are Russians prove to be long-living, as the roles in the family are clearly distributed and the mechanism operates good, although these are mixed families. In such families each of the couple is ready to make concessions and on the whole, wonderfully performs the role."

Good expert... she say that AM are perfect man for RW...

It is sad, but the researches don't mention for whom Russian men suit wonderfully.

[ConnerVT]

I think, Kvinna mean that most of relatively small marriage agencies with sites who present "brides" from FSU are runned of women who are married to western men and moved to the West as LL.

The bride.ru and absoluteagency.com was posted by error, just as sites with fishy reputation.

But it shows the bias and inaccuracies of her statements. Let's follow her logic:

Both of these companies were used to support her statement that most of the agencies are run by Westerners.  That agencies are bad.  Westerners must be bad because they own most of the agencies.

Then, Kvinna presented two agencies that are run by men from the FSU as evidence to support your assertions.  Unfortunately for her, she was called out for it.  Her credibility was already being questioned.  This is just an example that is being shown clearly.

[Bruno]

Sorry Jack, i think that negative view was not the good words for express my meaning... it is like when parents educate children... don't make this, don't make that... we make a list of all potential danger... it not mean that every RW is a danger... and antidate make the same on his side... they inform woman of potential danger... but it not mean that all western man are bad...

[Kvinna]

I will check bride.ru and absolutagency... but as I quote here 600 sites/agencies were started by westerners against 200 - by FSU citizens

and as it bring the good benefit to their owners it will never stop

[Jack]

Hello Kvinna, you check out who owns Bride.Ru and Absolute Agency for us and let us know, but in the future Kvinna maybe you should check your facts before you quote them.
 
Now Kvinna I see in a span of 1 hour and 43 minutes the number of agencies and sites run by FSU citizens as quoted by you have dropped from 300 to 200. Do you get away with these type of statements on the other discussion boards you post on? Do these other Russian women believe everything you post?

[Kvinna]

Hello Kvinna, you check out who owns Bride.Ru and Absolute Agency for us and let us know, but in the future Kvinna maybe you should check your facts before you quote them.
 
Now Kvinna I see in a span of 1 hour and 43 minutes the number of agencies and sites run by FSU citizens as quoted by you have dropped from 300 to 200. Do you get away with these type of statements on the other discussion boards you post on? Do these other Russian women believe everything you post?

 

Yes, I was mistaken, but when I have checked up statistics given by the Russian Academy of Sciences the situation is even worse than I have posted here

end this situation looks like the westerners earn money for selling MOB...

by the way read this also http://usinfo.state.gov/russki/topics/traf/2004-07-15h-brokers.htm 

[Muzh]

And you hope they would learn from this.  Holding my breath.

And yes, you are doing a very good job, really.