Asking for money

[Vaughn]

Whiskey,

Even before I read about the $70 blackmail, I had bad feelings about this woman's treatment of you. "While I was there everything seemed fine, but she really couldn't spend evenings with me because she said she had to study for her finals."

Well, maybe she did have finals pending. Regardless, whenever I hear of a woman offering excuses for her lack of available time, after a man's traveled halfway around the globe to visit her, I get an acid feeling in the stomach. This is not gospel, but 90%+ a bad signal.

"and invited me to eat with her family on the last day,"

The last day? Why not the second or third day? At the tender age of 18, her parent(s) were certainly curious about the foreigner she was entertaining; nevertheless, she sheltered them from you (and you from them) until the last possible moment. The reason for this would be pure speculation, so I won't bother trying - but keeping you away from them, who love her and know her best, is not a hopeful sign.

I'm sorry things did not work out as you hoped, but there are sincere ladies out there waiting for you. She was not one of them. And congrats to you for not bending to her unreasonable and selfish demand.

Vaughn  

[Photo Guy]

[user=89]Doug Salem[/user] wrote:

Todd,
and the girl's Mom blathered something at them in broken English like "Natasha no home! Natasha go Ameerika! Have leetle beebee! Gude Buy!"

      That made me laugh!!

Cut the agency out of the loop as soon as you have made initial contact with the women.
SNIP
But if you did not have lots of good, solid, clear communication up front, trying to ford both the communication issue AND the cultural issue both at the same time, and both at the tail end, sweeps most guys away and down into the rapids.
- Doug S.
www.goeastnow.com

Doug, this gives me a lot to think about. I use a big agency
for exchanging and translating emails. Should I cut them out
of the loop? (two months so far) Also, I get the definite impression
that Larisa writes her own emails. They are all stylistically similiar.
That's also true for another woman I was emailing through
this agency. The combination of email and translation makes
it fast and easy to communicate with her, but now you have me
reconsidering the whole process.  -doug L.  

[whiskey187]

I feel really sad, but no money will be sent. I just feel crushed that I can't get past weeks of communication with a woman and then she just disappears. This girl lasted months with me. But, the girls who I wrote at  www.merrydating.com and www.freepersonals.ru stopped writing me after a couple of letters and weeks. Also, this happened with the ladies from the ad that this guy posted. What really hurts me is that this girl asked my so called friend to post an ad for her to look for guys if I don't buy her a computer for Valentine's Day. I feel totally betrayed by the friend.

Todd

[jb]

Whiskey,

She signed all of the forms, gave me a piece of paper that I wrote stating that she had the intent to marry me, and let me take lots of pictures with me and her with her family.

I will always give general advice to guys going over, but I rarely get between a guy and a gal he's already met.  In this case I'm gonna take the young lady's side.  If you don't send the $70, you are an arse.  If you had her fill in K-1 doc's she thinks she's engaged to be married.  You are suppose to help her now that the relationship has changed.  Heck, you are suppose to want to help her now instead of griping and complaining on a chat board.  Besides, if she lives as poor as you say she does, you could do a lot to improve her living conditions until she leaves for the USA and it won't cost you that much. As for the computer she wants, did it ever occur to you that she might need the computer to communicate privately with the man she thinks she's going to marry?  She may have the idea that you love her,,,, silly girl that she is, she may just want to have some bragging rights about her fiancee.

December and January are cram times for examinations in the FSU.  Do you have any idea what their exams are like?  They don't have multi-guess questions, or even simple essay style. What happens is the student is brought before a panel of Professors, and questioned orally to probe the depth of a student's knowledge, if the girl gave you any time at all she must think you are very special.  

I think you are a big dissappointment to this girl if you've dumped her over $70.

You are right, there is someone who is  immature in this relationship, but it's not the little girl...

[Goombah]

Thanks for the explaination on exams.  I landed in Kiev on December 9th, met my current lady on the 10th, 11th, and 12th, then she bailed on me for 3 days to study for exams.  We met up again on the 16th and 17th.

I wondered about that.  Many have claimed that if she was truely interested, she would have found a couple of hours every day to be with me.

Alas, there have been other issues, but its still good to know what happened back then was reasonable.

Kevin C.

[jb]

Goombah,

I'm glad that my post answered a question mark in your mind. Sometimes having a more complete picture of life in the FSU helps to understand why these women do the things they do.  I'm quite certain many perfectly nice girls get screwed over because of a simple misunderstanding like this.

It's too bad many men don't try to learn a bit more about the culture before they jump on the "pretty face/great body" bandwagon and go rushing off to meet a girl they can't understand, much less communicate with.

[Goombah]

Well... I'm trying.  I gave my lady an ATM card while I was there - she took about 1000 grivna after about a week, but hasn't touched it since (not in over 6 weeks).  I thought that was a good sign.

On the flip side, she sure like fine dinning, although the 240 grivna a bottle for wine I bought one night seemed to bother her - she wouldn't let me buy wine after that.

Kevin C.

[jb]

Goombah,

Good for you, 1,000 gr is what?  About $200?  In all likelyhood she bought herself something nice and when her friends noticed, she was able to brag a bit on her new status as an engaged woman.  These girls are not so different from AW in this regard, the difference is an AW would be bragging about the 2 carat diamond engagement ring that set you back 3 months wages.

You got off cheap.

[KenC]

 "While I was there everything seemed fine, but she really couldn't spend evenings with me because she said she had to study for her finals."

Well, maybe she did have finals pending. Regardless, whenever I hear of a woman offering excuses for her lack of available time, after a man's traveled halfway around the globe to visit her, I get an acid feeling in the stomach. This is not gospel, but 90%+ a bad signal.

"and invited me to eat with her family on the last day,"

The last day? Why not the second or third day? At the tender age of 18, her parent(s) were certainly curious about the foreigner she was entertaining; nevertheless, she sheltered them from you (and you from them) until the last possible moment.

I had almost the same thing happen on my first trip to meet my wife.  My trip was kind of a last minute thing and I was warned that she had finals and had commited to some holiday plans prior to ,y announced trip.  My point is that these can be legitimate excuses.  I also had one dinner with Lena's family.  I wouldn't have thought she was sincere without meeting them.

KenC

[Goombah]

Well, she is not engaged yet, at least not to me.

I left her the card to help cover the cost of English lessons, I-Cafe, and cell-phone.  Not sure what she used the money for, although I believe she bought some books, and she did spend a Saturday evening at an I-Cafe.

Alas, she needs to spend a LOT more time there.  

Kevin

[BC]

jb wrote:
"If you don't sent the $70, you are an arse. If you had her fill in K-1 doc's she thinks she's engaged to be married. You are suppose to help her now that the relationship has changed. Heck, you are suppose to want to help her now instead of griping and complaining on a chat board."

In my opinion 'engagement' is taken waaay too lightly by many. The basic line of thinking that bringing a girl over for a long K1 holiday is doing her a favor even if it doesn't work out is simply wrong. Might be time for a girl to sue for damages if his intent was indeed off base and she left everything behind.  After all documents of intent were signed somewhere along the way.. who knows maybe he could be banned for filing further frivolous K1's.. Good thread starter if anyone wants to pick it up..

Somehow I think Whiskey was not serious to begin with.  

[jb]

BC,

I couldn't agree more.

What bothered me about this thread was that it took 2 pages of back and forth postings to get enough information to draw a conclusion about what really happened. After I finally read the real events, it hit me, Whiskey didn't have a clue about this girls life style before he got there, or what is involved in being a fiancee to a FSU woman.

I have some grave doubts about Vaughn as well.

[jb]

Goombah,

Well, she is not engaged yet, at least not to me. <snip> I left her the card to help cover the cost of English lessons, I-Cafe, and cell-phone.(etc.)

Just a question, why would you assume a provider/support role without having made a decision about your possible compatibility as a married couple?  While I admire your spirit of generosity, I wonder if you didn't plant some seeds with this act of kindness and she might have some level of expectation you did not intend to convey.

You really confused me with that post.  I don't know where you are coming from, and I wonder is she confused as well.

[Turboguy]

I have made a lot of trips, met a lot of women and have been scammed many times.   I have also met some very honest, caring women who would not think of ripping off a guy. 

Usually if I think I am being scammed or ripped off I just cut my losses and move on.   What would I think if I were in that situation.   Well, I might have a red flag up and maybe not, but I would not be too concerened about $ 70.00.

I have only dated one student who happened to be from Ukraine and this was a long time ago.  She was a real beauty.   She was in school in Sevastapol.   I flew in there and because of classes was only able to see her a short time each day.   (Sounds like a similar situation) The second day she said to me, now that she is "my woman" I would not want her running around in such an old coat and she wanted $ 400 for a new leather coat.  We went from there on Friday to Krivoy Rog and spend a few days with her family.  They were great and she was very attentive.    On my last day she told me her Dad was running short of money and she was going to have to drop out of school.   Now of course since she was "my woman" I would not want her to be uneductated would I, so could I give her $ 800.00 for her tuition,  ahhh, ok.   Well despite being "my woman" I never heard from her after for about 11 months then she wrote and apolgised for not writing but wanted me to come back and go camping.   Probably time for more tutiion, some new shoes and etc.   I did not.   Truthfully I would have been happy to help if she was sincere but I really think if she was she would not have gone a year without writing.

My current gal never seemed to want to take money.  She kept paying for things and trying to pay for things. and when I mentioned money she would say, she worked and she could pay for things too.   We decided to start the fiancee process receintely and now that we are officially engaged she seems a little more willing to take some help.   There is a change of status and to me I have accepeted the responibiltiy for her.   She always lets me know where the money is going.   I just sent her $ 400.00 this past week (She had not asked and I had not told her how much I was sending)  So what is she doing with it, arranging the apartment for my next visit.   I meant that money to be for her and did not really plan that.   I got myself a good girl and when you have one you know it.     If all you see is red flags sooner or later you will be smart to bail out.

To the subject at hand, $ 70.00 is peanuts.  I don't like the way the gal asked but she is yound and perhaps a little immature.   If you chase young girls you should not be surprised to catch one who is a little young and not all that experieced in life.   My thoughts, the finals could be real, the $ 70.00 is nothing even thought the way she asked is not good.  If it would be me I would say here darling is your $ 70.00 I am including an extra $ 50 in case you need shoes to go with it and if every two days she is writing for more money, I would either drop her or just say no.    Telling someone NO is always an option. 

It is nice there is someplace like this to get another opinion.  When I cut my losses on one other gal I really felt more comfortable once I talked to a few people and was able to confirm that what I took to be a lie about visas was infact a lie.   A board like this would have helped me a lot then.

 

 

[jb]

Turbo,

You are quite right, there is "reasonable" and then there is "unreasonable".

It sounds as though you have found a great gal who has the best interests of you, as a couple, are concerned.  

In your shoes, I'd have bailed on the first girl, just as you "reasonably" did.  Something I remember reading years ago, "you can make friends with a thief, but never a liar."

[Goombah]

Well, after 5 dates, we felt pretty excited about our future together.  She has returned to school for a 2nd degree, money is tight (I saw the part of town she lives in with three other ladies sharing a 2 room flat), and the money was designated to help her communciate with me.

Honestly, it was also a bit of a test.  If she drained the account on a regular basis, it would tell me a lot about her.  Not doing so also told me a lot.

The account is stand-alone, with a small ($50) monthly transfer automatically made.  She new the balance, and the montly amount.  I have offered more, and she refused, saying the $50 was enough.  Felt pretty good about that.

Kevin

[Vaughn]

JB,

Perhaps Whiskey does have some unreasonable expectations from a woman so young. I'm from her father's generation at 54. Trying not to pass judgement on the maturity level at her young age, I feel when a woman, regardless of age, from the FSU, begins to make monetary demands in exchange for cooperation, I would head for the hills. My wife of two years never once asked for a kopeck - and that's not say I did not volunteer help, and plenty of it. Of course Whiskey should be (IMO) financially responsible for her well-being, IF he senses she's serious. All I perceived from her behavior was a serious shortcoming in what it takes to have a functional and committed marriage.

Vaughn

[jb]

I've got to think about this a bit, Goombah.

But my initial reaction is not good, I don't like head games, and this looks very much like a test of some kind.  Five dates is not enough to determine anything, the ATM card was a huge mistake at this point of the courtship, IMHO.

[Goombah]

Well, she didn't abuse it, which was good, and seems to appreciate having it.  May have provided her a test for me as well, since she has asked permission to pull money a couple of times, but never has since the initial withdrawl. May not matter, the relationship is suffering from communciation problems.  I'm expecting a "Good Bye" e-mail tomorrow, after about 7 weeks of just SMSing - it will only be the 2nd e-mail she has ever sent me.  Now THATS a problem.  Hope I'm wrong.  If I am, I'll chalk this up to inexperience for both of us with regards to international dating.

Kevin C.

[Photo Guy]

'... the relationship is suffering from communciation problems.  I'm expecting a "Good Bye" e-mail tomorrow, after about 7 weeks of just SMSing...
Kevin C.

Kevin, how would you summarize the communication problems?
Was there just a lack of communication, or secrecy, or
lack of openness, or what? Or was it a personality conflict? -doug

[Goombah]

Doug -

Lack of meaningful communications.  We SMS each other, but mostly the "I miss you"/"Thinking of you"/*hugs**kisses* type things, filled  out to 160 characters, sometimes several a day, but nothing serious.

It took me a month to get her to an I-cafe where she read a backlog of about 20 messages (One a day until I realized how far behind she was getting).  She answered the biggest questions via ICQ that day in three lines (written in Cyrillic).  Even the ICQ session was weird, it often took her 10-15 minutes to reply, in Russian - something was distracting her (since I sent a mutual friend with to help and she was actively ICQing with her boyfriend - that might have been it, but hardly justifiable).

She has not pursued improving her English, despite gentle encouragement from myself and her roommate, our interpretor.

She has promised to send pictures, class schedules, etc. and never has.  Often it "I'll send in 2-3 days" or "I'll send", but tomorrow will only be the second time she has sent me e-mail, if she does.

We got along great while I was there, much better than I had any right to anticipate.  Body language was fantastic, (no sex, we just never got to that point and I wasn't going to demand it) follow-up calls were always greeted with surprise and pleasure (even if we could only make out half of what each said), at least until todays which was noticibly more neutral in tone.

We have managed serious SMS based conversations around Internation Passports and things like that, but they have been far and few between.

Honestly, I'm baffled.  I'm guessing she has gotten back together with an ex-boyfriend or found a new local one (one of those who-to-sleep-with vs. who-to-live with relationships?), but I could just be paranoid.  Lack of meaningful communication is allowing my mind to run wild - almost like sensory deprevation!

Kevin

[BC]

Goombah,

One thing I have noticed over time with all women, not just RU women:

Once you've met and had a great time together don't hesitate to take a step back and wait for her to initiate further communications. Might take a little time, but if she is really interested in you she will call. IMHO women see things in a different light and may not enjoy being 'smothered' in the initial dating stages.  This may lead her to think that there might be control issues involved and can result in her beginning to resent the constant barrage of queries and attention.

If you get to the point where you feel like you have to do something to get her attention then it is indeed best to move on.

I really wasn't a great dater in my younger years but did have a lot of experiences I tried to learn from.  When fishing which would you enjoy more, a nice lure, patience and tactics culminating in the battle to get that fish landed or having a fish jump in your lap..

I'm sure many RW's find themselves with a lapful of fish and sit there wondering how stupid can a fish be.

[Goombah]

Suppose this is just another one of those "The more you love them, the less they love you" threads.

Odd though, I know so far successful couples that after meeting talk twice a day on the phone, send e-mails daily, and SMS each other 20 times a day.  There is a lot to talk about when one is truely hunting for a spouse and not just a date.

Alas, I haven't found such a communicator yet.

Kevin

[jb]

Then my advice to you is; cancel the ATM card, dump her, and move on until you find someone really special.  This marriage thing is supposed to be a two-way street.

[Goombah]

Agreed about it being a two way street.  I am proceeding cautiously in case this is just a matter of unexplained expectations or other some cultural difference we haven't talked about.  I do not want to casually terminate this and possibly miss out on a otherwise perfect wife.

On the flip side, perhaps tomorrow she will tell me she is back together with her ex-boyfriend.  Then its obviously over.

Kevin