If it wasn't for Covid-19 a potentially FAR worse issue should be the news

[Gator]

The no fly zone should have been imposed 9 years ago.

Now, we would have to shoot down RU planes..

The West had a legitimate opening in 2013 to create a no fly zone when Assad  used chemical weapons against the rebels.  This crossed Obama's red line, and Obama was ready to bomb Assad, and I am certain NATO would have supported it.   

Putin responded by claiming Russia would retaliate if the US bombed Assad.  Even though the  Russian Navy told Putin they could not defeat the US Navy in the Med, Putin ordered his navy to sail and meanwhile told Obama "Let's talk."    Obama agreed not to bomb in exchange for Russia's promise to dismantle Syria's chemical weapons.

The Syrian civil war continued, and Assad with Russia slowly regained almost all of the rebel-held territory.  How many million refugees did the continuing war create? 

BTW, feeling emboldened after bluffing Obama, Putin seized Crimea in 2014.

[krimster2]

OTOH, if the war is REALLY about pipelines and not people,
cuz in reality
people care more about money than they do about the lives of strangers
then Obama, shrugging his shoulders woulda been the right thing to do for the US of A
cuz, why should a Kenyan born President be willing to use government resources for the oil and gas industry
ONLY Putin does that!
 
plus, at this point we already broke enough countries and really shouldn't do any more

[BillyB]

OK .. so you really DO want to compare 75 million killed ( YOU brought up those killed)  in WWII with the population THEN, instead of now ?

The things Silly Billy B will try to do to avoid admitting  his 'stats' suck and he can't  do percentages ..



I am with a micro-biologist, an MD and a retired Surgeon out here... how's THAT for starters ..

Then I've posted two links for you to conveniently 'forget'


Q: What sort of mask was she( GE passport control )  wearing, Silly BillyB?   


A: A Surgical mask ...To be properly protected against infection passed on through air particles, you would need a mask with a specialised air filter..  As soon as they are damp - they are useless ..( six minutes)

The only IDIOT here is YOU ..posting tech stuff you neither understand  and 'stats' you're arrived at - not WHO ones

My beloved is in Thailand ...  As I understand it - unthinking fools ensured a shortage, there - not that she'd buy or wear one - unless ordered to..

Have you self-isolated yourself and family, yet ? 

So you've got no proof masks don't work and can't provide links to anything you claimed. You gave the other forum advice masks do work if worn properly and changed out occasionally. Although they bash you more than this place does, it seems you care about them more than the people in this forum when you passed out bad advice that can get them killed. Nobody here is going to take your advice anyway.

At first I thought it was a bad idea your wife taking a vacation to Thailand with this virus going around. She's been there a month. I now realize she made a good decision and the longer she stays away from you, the better the decision becomes. If I had a choice to get locked up in a room with you or the virus, I'd pick the virus.

[krimster2]

dewd, I'm tellin ya, I've already lived through this once...
at first the masks are merely "for show" in case you cough or sneeze, with  a mask people won't get as freaked out as without a mask
also, if you or someone in your family gets the disease, if they can breathe OK, you'll wanna put the mask on them to reduce spread to you

Russians can make a hilariously improvised face mask out of an old pair of woman's panties, a couple of pieces paper towel and a piece of string
saw it lots of times

Russians!!!
that happened to me once, but had nothing to with a virus
never mind...

[BillyB]

at first the masks are merely "for show" in case you cough or sneeze, with  a mask people won't get as freaked out as without a mask
also, if you or someone in your family gets the disease, if they can breathe OK, you'll wanna put the mask on them to reduce spread to you

 I've worked with asbestos and paint before. Masks stop harmful objects. Even if a masks stops only 95% of the harmful objects we could possibly breathe, it's a huge improvement over breathing in 100% of the harmful objects. Are masks perfect? No. As I mentioned before, hazmat suits are the ideal protective gear.

[msmob]

So you've got no proof masks don't work and can't provide links to anything you claimed.

BillyB,

AGAIN..Why are you making stuff up..I have posted such info ..with links from your v.own CDC, UK NHS and two other sources PLUS..I was with 2 medical doctors..one a retired surgeon and a micro biologist ...

 You gave the other forum advice masks do work if worn properly and changed out occasionally.

Nope...You are 'mistaken'... I referred to surgical masks v filtered ones...

Although they bash you more than this place does, it seems you care about them more than the people in this forum when you passed out bad advice that can get them killed.

I am sat in a plane where 25 percent of IDIOTS are wearing surgical masks and half the crew.

Do you understand anything about this virus, BillyB..


Far more important to wash your hands, regularly.

Nobody here is going to take your advice anyway.

It is not my 'advice' and as you know...the GE passport lass did..))

At first I thought it was a bad idea your wife taking a vacation to Thailand with this virus going around.

She's been there over a month and we discussed the risks v. crossing the road or being murdered..You would rather wear body armour and keep smake anti-venom injections and anti mosquito repellant on hand...You are MUCH more likely to be shot, bitten by and venomous snake or die of a mosquito bite...

She's been there a month. I now realize she made a good decision and the longer she stays away from you, the better the decision becomes.

I have not noticed her feeling as such and we planned our reunion, today...Though what this has to do with Covid-19 eludes me...

If I had a choice to get locked up in a room with you or the virus, I'd pick the virus.

)))

[BillyB]

Nope...You are 'mistaken'... I referred to surgical masks v filtered ones...

Another lie. I don't have time to address your other BS. Here's what you told the other forum "Masks are only effective, if changed regularly and worn correctly"  Fortunately it's too late to modify your post to add surgical vs filtered masks. People here can go read it for themselves.

[Grumpy]

[

dewd, I'm tellin ya, I've already lived through this once...
at first the masks are merely "for show" in case you cough or sneeze, with  a mask people won't get as freaked out as without a mask
also, if you or someone in your family gets the disease, if they can breathe OK, you'll wanna put the mask on them to reduce spread to you

Russians can make a hilariously improvised face mask out of an old pair of woman's panties, a couple of pieces paper towel and a piece of string
saw it lots of times

Russians!!!
that happened to me once, but had nothing to with a virus
never mind...

Could you please demonstrate this and post a picture?
For public safety in case of a mask shortage.

[krimster2]

maybe tomorrow I can find a pic...

[msmob]

Another lie.

Only at your hand...

Another lie.

 I don't have time to address your other BS.

Take you time...in between stockpiling and digging trenches...

Another lie.

Here's what you told the other forum "Masks are only effective, if changed regularly and worn correctly" 

Naughty Billy is 'quoting' about surgical masks..

1/ they are rarely worn properly

2/ You left out the 'useless' when damp...six minutes part... Why DO you make stuff up?

Fortunately it's too late to modify your post to add surgical vs filtered masks. People here can go read it for themselves.

)))

They can read what you wrote and I added what you omitted....I am sure you'd never try to influence the dear reader on purpose...

Sadly, for poor BillyB, I once again note he has tried to suggest 'not proven' then ''has no time'' to check the links he has now missed ...SEVERAL TIMES...

[BillyB]

Naughty Billy is 'quoting' about surgical masks..

Another lie. People can go over there and read that masks were talked about, not surgical masks specifically. You told one forum masks are effective if worn properly and you tell this forum masks are useless. What have you told your wife about masks? I'm asking a serious question.

[msmob]

Another lie. People can go over there and read that masks were talked about, not surgical masks specifically. You told one forum masks are effective if worn properly and you tell this forum masks are useless. What have you told your wife about masks? I'm asking a serious question.

It is bad enough suggesting I'm fibbing... when that award goes to you.. I said they are useless within 6 mins....when damp..and the micro biolkgists and two Medical Docs with me did not wear masks, either...


We took the metro, regularly and eat out in restaurants in the centre.

Then there's the actual advice re the 'usefulness' of surgical masks that you KNOW I have quoted from several, reliable sources...

I travelled on a code share plane with loads of folk from N.Italy..

What would be the point in wearing a surgical mask?

I have not advised SC to buy a mask of any sort...waste of time...If she could buy one...


You've tried to big up the death rates of the virus...another FAIL...

You and I are far more likely to be murdered or die as a result of a venomous snake bite..

In the meantime...Turkey have ( apparently) shot down two Syrian war planes in Idlib and Greece has 10K 'refugees' at it's borders...

FAR more serious...

[BillyB]

It is bad enough suggesting I'm fibbing... when that award goes to you..

Then there's the actual advice re the 'usefulness' of surgical masks that you KNOW I have quoted from several, reliable sources...


You've tried to big up the death rates of the virus...another FAIL...

You and I are far more likely to be murdered or die as a result of a venomous snake bite..

Your refusal to answer the question on what advice you gave your wife about masks is revealing. I hope she decides to stay another month in Thailand remaining closer to the virus than you.

[ML]

There’s still no real need for the public to wear face masks, according to the CDC. The main point of them is to keep someone who is already sick from infecting others.

“We generally do not recommend the use of either masks or respirators for the general public. Of course, persons who desire to be extra cautious about their exposure to germs when in public may choose to wear a mask,” Martinello said.

There are other steps that are more effective than wearing a mask. For one, keep a distance from sick people, especially those coughing or sneezing. Also, not touching your face with your hands minimizes your exposure to harmful germs.

Lastly, hand-washing is your best line of defense against any virus, so wash frequently and thoroughly. That means spending at least 20 seconds scrubbing your hands with soap and rinsing water.

“Making sure people wash their hands and get their flu shot probably is going to be better at keeping them healthy than putting a face mask on,” Ison said.

http://www.huffpost.com/entry/do-face-masks-prevent-virus_l_5e304a13c5b6ce51a4ec0a09

[msmob]

Your refusal to answer the question on what advice you gave your wife about masks is revealing.

No - your inattentiveness is ..  there you go..))

Previously, in this thread

I have not advised SC to buy a mask of any sort...waste of time...If she could buy one...

There’s still no real need for the public to wear face masks, according to the CDC.

Quite

[Gator]

Back to our correspondent in Syria.

Syria war: Brutal endgame in Idlib risks spilling over[/b]

This war has been critical for a decade, and has  killed hundreds of thousands of civilians and displaced millions of refugees.  It began in March 2011 with the Arab Spring.   By 2015, Assad suffered a series of losses to various rebel groups and faced defeat.    To support Assad, the Russian military intervened directly in Septemebr 2015. 

Instrumental in the Russian intervention was this man, who had been directly supporting Assad since 2011. 



FROM OCTOBER 6, 2015 REUTERS ARTICLE

BEIRUT (Reuters) - At a meeting in Moscow in July, a top Iranian general unfurled a map of Syria to explain to his Russian hosts how a series of defeats for President Bashar al-Assad could be turned into victory - with Russia’s help.

Major General Qassem Soleimani’s visit to Moscow was the first step in planning for a Russian military intervention that has reshaped the Syrian war and forged a new Iranian-Russian alliance in support of Assad.

As Russian warplanes bomb rebels from above, the arrival of Iranian special forces for ground operations underscores several months of planning between Assad’s two most important allies, driven by panic at rapid insurgent gains.

Senior regional sources say he had already been overseeing ground operations against insurgents in Syria and is now at the heart of planning for the new Russian- and Iranian-backed offensive.

His Moscow meeting outlined the deteriorating situation in Syria, where rebel advances toward the coast were posing a danger to the heartland of Assad’s Alawite sect, where Russia maintains its only Mediterranean naval base in Tartous.

“Soleimani put the map of Syria on the table. The Russians were very alarmed, and felt matters were in steep decline and that there were real dangers to the regime. The Iranians assured them there is still the possibility to reclaim the initiative,” a senior regional official said. “At that time, Soleimani played a role in assuring them that we haven’t lost all the cards.”

For more about the Russian-Iranian connection in the Syrian civil war,, this article continues at: 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-soleimani-insigh/how-iranian-general-plotted-out-syrian-assault-in-moscow-idUSKCN0S02BV20151006


P. S.  Also in 2015, the the Iran nuclear deal framework was negotiated. 

[Trenchcoat]

Wearing a mask won't protect 100 percent from the virus but it will likely reduce the risk. I would go with the rubber/plastic respirator mask with googles if I were going out & about. The better the mask can mold to the face the less air gaps there will be. Unfortunately a lot of the paper masks tend to have gaps as paper doesn't mold to the face well. If the paper mask is not well designed the air gaps can be quite large so making them likely less effective. In the pictures in the news you can often see this with people with huge gaps around their paper masks lol.

I think the hand washing thing only comes into its own if around places where the risk of getting the virus jumps. Once a virus touches your hand would washing it remove it? I am not so sure. I think it is likely more of a idea to busy the population with and hope it helps out.

The best way to avoid the virus is most probably isolation. If we stock up on enough food & toilet rolls and stay indoors for weeks on end that is probably our best chance of avoiding the virus by keeping well out of public areas. However, that can probably only be done for so long until people need to go back to work to avoid other problems doing themselves in instead.

The most riskiest areas are probably places like public transport, buses, trains & places. Any places that are confined public places that put people into close proximity with one another. With Spring coming as a nation we would do well to ban all busses & trains and tell people to walk, cycle or use cars & taxis instead.

I personally don't really care about what goes down in Syria. I am not fan of Syrians or Turks, they are all religious nutters. Putin gets overly involved in foreign intervention. It could well be that he ends up exhausting Russia's military & economy in doing so. Let's not forget he is also involved in Ukraine's conflict with its daily death toll as well as Georgia & Chechnya.

[krimster2]

stages of the virus...

A
1. travelers from infected area are mmediately detected and quarantined
2. travelers from infected area are detected later and quarantined

B
1. known infected travelers infect local people

C
1. local infection has unknown connection to carrier - means it was spread by an unknown local carrier who will infect more

D
1. the number of cases per contact and the number of new unknown carrier cases begin to grow in a linear fashion

E. the growth hits the exponential phase, and the number of cases quickly escalates

F. game over folks


here in the USA we are currently at the beginning of “C”

the virus will have been installed by the time next flu season comes ‘round
so we can expect much higher numbers until it hits “E” and whatever “F” will be...

[BillyB]

There’s still no real need for the public to wear face masks, according to the CDC. The main point of them is to keep someone who is already sick from infecting others.

“We generally do not recommend the use of either masks or respirators for the general public. Of course, persons who desire to be extra cautious about their exposure to germs when in public may choose to wear a mask,” Martinello said.

There is no need to wear masks unless there's an epidemic in your city. 330 million Americans will walk around today and 330 million Americans will not catch the virus today. if each American wears a mask 3 times a day, we'd need a billion masks everyday to serve our population. The CDC doesn't want the public that has a better chance in winning the lottery than catch the virus to waste masks. The masks we have should be reserved for those infected and health care workers who are the frontline fighters. China has over a 1000 of their medical workers infected. Masks do not stop them from catching the virus 100%. An N95 mask that is worn properly will stop 95% of airborne objects. There's still a chance a virus hoping a ride on a water droplet can get past the mask.

As part of my wife's nursing education, she spends time at the VA and a psychiatric hospital. The college and hospital does not require the students to wear masks at this time.

In other news a postal worker has been infected in Federal Way, Washington, which is 20 minutes from where I live and it was a city I used to live in. Don't know how it was acquired but if it was acquired when handling a package, people would be scared to order things online.

http://www.kiro7.com/news/local/local-usps-employee-tests-positive-coronavirus/XLKCBEXO5FFJ3DRQSBHNACPW2M/

[krimster2]

your wife "spends time at the VA and a psychiatric hospital".
nooooo, REALLY?
surprised, I am to hear of something like this in regards to someone close to YOU
could NEVER imagine such a thing, surely...

instead of "Sex In The City"
it's "Sex In The Cemetery" starring YOU homeboy

that's right and our next episode will be shot entirely on location at the state psychiatric hospital in the masturbation addiction ward
and guess who the most wacko patient will be?

 


 

[Trenchcoat]

I agree Krim, we are at C in the UK as well. It is pretty much inevitable that it will spread now. China should have shut off all flights & travel in & out of the country till it had run its course.

It's now a case individuals have to decide on whether they are going to go about their usual business when it hits or more or less go into hibination and if so for how long. Odds are most can only do this for a limited time, some more than others. The retired are more at risk but are more able to isolate themselves do to relying on pension more than wages. I'm guessing those with families will find it more difficult as you can't really not bring home income for long.

Myself as a single guy I could probably go a few months without bringing in income.

Apparently it is possible to catch it a second time though it is to date apparently rare. The point at which someone decides to avoid going out in public is also one to consider. Seeing that the virus is invisible in its early stages it can infect without people knowing they are mixing with someone who is transmitting it. My guess is when cases start to rise nationally and/or when the first few local cases start popping up.

Some people may be able to work from home by their employer and we are in an age when more of that is possible. That and being able to do financial transactions online all along with ordering goods and food could help reduce a lot more people getting it. In a way this virus could be a test of how we might transform society. See if we can move from a lot of unnecessary commuting and going into work to working from home and ordering food for delivery.

Just consider the economies of scale if most of the population ordered their groceries online rather than doing the supermarket shop. It could make supermarkets virtually redundant which in turn could be converted to warehouse use, possibly with a pick up counter like we have in places like Argos & Screwfix here for those that stop by on their journey perhaps tapping in what they like into a screen like you get in McDonald's.

In many ways we might find there really isn't much need to go out as much.

[krimster2]

well, there's a report of a vaccine coming from Israel, it's credible, but I'm skeptical, hope to hear a lot more about this soon

[Grumpy]

Wearing a mask won't protect 100 percent from the virus but it will likely reduce the risk. I would go with the rubber/plastic respirator mask with googles if I were going out & about. The better the mask can mold to the face the less air gaps there will be. Unfortunately a lot of the paper masks tend to have gaps as paper doesn't mold to the face well. If the paper mask is not well designed the air gaps can be quite large so making them likely less effective. In the pictures in the news you can often see this with people with huge gaps around their paper masks lol.

I think the hand washing thing only comes into its own if around places where the risk of getting the virus jumps. Once a virus touches your hand would washing it remove it? I am not so sure. I think it is likely more of a idea to busy the population with and hope it helps out.

The best way to avoid the virus is most probably isolation. If we stock up on enough food & toilet rolls and stay indoors for weeks on end that is probably our best chance of avoiding the virus by keeping well out of public areas. However, that can probably only be done for so long until people need to go back to work to avoid other problems doing themselves in instead.

The most riskiest areas are probably places like public transport, buses, trains & places. Any places that are confined public places that put people into close proximity with one another. With Spring coming as a nation we would do well to ban all busses & trains and tell people to walk, cycle or use cars & taxis instead.

I personally don't really care about what goes down in Syria. I am not fan of Syrians or Turks, they are all religious nutters. Putin gets overly involved in foreign intervention. It could well be that he ends up exhausting Russia's military & economy in doing so. Let's not forget he is also involved in Ukraine's conflict with its daily death toll as well as Georgia & Chechnya.

The people most at risk (those with pre-exisiting lung conditions) generally can't breathe through a respirator.
Washing hands, practicing good sanitation, and hygiene have been  known for over a century to prevent the transmission of disease.

[krimster2]

yeah, geezer victims, fer sure...
I know from my own experience from raising two children, that schools are the biggest spreaders of infection
they will ALL shut down probably when the USA totals go above 2,000...

[BillyB]

2nd death in the USA just happened. Both deaths are 30 minutes away from where I live. Out of 9 people who finished their battle with the virus, 2 died and 7 recovered. Mortality rate from this virus is currently at 22% in America.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/second-person-dies-of-coronavirus-in-us/ar-BB10BBKe?ocid=spartanntp