Aloe, the desperate housewife

[BC]

Uh, guys. Limit yourselves just to listen. No heroes wanted.

Yep.  Aloe has all the professional resources necessary it seems.  Being able to 'vent' here is ok until the next appointment.  Sometimes it is nice just to have an 'ear'.. but problems need to get resolved locally.

[Doll]

Who do I call "borderline personality disoder", Aloe?
It is not me- American doctors.
Whatever it is- I agree with Turboguy:you're in abusive relationships that NEVER get better. It is not your fault (you just didn't see the signs), but now you need to take responsibility.
I can see almost all the signs of abusive marriage- your depression, your feeling of being worthless, etc.
I am sorry, but it (marriage) is not going to work. Don't ask me why I know it)).

[GoodOlBoy]

Remember that while your status depends on his, you are actually always protected in case of abuse. 

This is good information for Aloe to know.

 
I am curious Shadow, if this clown was choking and abusing a local Belgium girl (instead of a nice FSU foreign girl), would his behavior also be "tolerated" by them ?

Are Belgium women submissive?

Also, how does the Belgium society (in general) view men choking/abusing their girlfriends or wives?

GOB

[Doll]

Aloe, read this
http://anniekaszina.com/

[fathertime]

Yes, aside from the husbands abuse fighting, it is just skippy! 
 
 

Just being a little argumentative I guess, because of the lack of detail, which is almost always the case on a public board. 
Well it sounded to me like the wife did not put a stop to this when he turned up the music and flipping her off.  Resetting and discussing ‘how to fight’ seems like a good idea to me.   If I were the woman, I would also draw the line at physical abuse.  If that were to continue even one more time, I’d concur that it would be best to not walk, but run away.   If they have already discussed this, then it is time to leave, if they haven’t then that is what I’d suggest.   
 
Without being in the room and seeing the ‘pushing’ it is hard to say…there is different categories of pushing and I’m sensing this was not a shove to the floor or hard shove against a wall…to me it sounded more like a ‘get out of my way’ type shove as I walk past you.  The choking also would need further explanation.  Did the husband reach out and suddenly choke the wife, or did she make contact with him in any way and then he, by instinct go straight for the throat as a brief automatic reaction?   Was the broken glass thrown towards his feet, or in his general direction?  I might agree with your assessment of abuse, but only the wife knows what happened so it is hard to say, FOR ME. 
Perhaps the marriage is rocky for other reasons we are not hearing about, boredom, loss of spark, etc, etc? 


Fathertime! 

[TheTraveler]

I'm desperaaaaaaate I'm desperaaaaate. arghhhhhh. I desperately wanna live on my own. What to do?    Drop out of college and find a job, or finish college while staying desperate. sigh


How to explain to someone that violence is unjustifiable? That flipping off your wife while turning up your horrible music to deafening volumes is immature? I just don't see how the prospect of a broken glass justifies acting aggressively to your wife? He doesn't see how it doesn't. So what if i wanna break a glass, that's no reason to push me to the wall and choke (albeit for a second), and then grab me on the shoulders and push and yell some more, and then deny that you have a problem with violence, and disagree  that it is unjustifiable. Sigh. You know the strange thing? After every argument i'm the one left feeling like i'm the horrible person. How does that happen?

aloe, your english skills are phenomenal for a non-native speaker...  your marriage sounds like a trainwreck... you live in belgium -- a country where the heavy boot of the socialism-based government on your neck keeps your after-tax income level too low.
 
yet you don't have children, which gives you plenty of flexibility.
 
add all that together.... and what would be my solution?  if i were you, i'd get the hell out (country and marriage) and make a fresh start in the usa.

[Ade]

Aloe,


you need to tell your husband in no uncertain terms that the threatening behaviour, even if there's no physical stuff, is not acceptable. Ever. If he doesn't get that or won't accept responsibility for it I would suggest you start to make some long term plans which include an exit strategy.


If you want to save your marriage you have to sit down with the guy and try to discuss how to argue and disagree. Even if it's how to come to terms with agreeing to disagree. Disagreements happen in marriage but they don't have to be destructive and so hurtful that they threaten it.


Also, your selfish, self centred man-boy of a husband needs to be told that if he can't get over himself he will lose you. You need to say this plainly and without equivocation as men can be very good at hearing what they want to hear rather than what is said.

[newjason]

Hey Aloe!

I had been wondering how you were doing. 

It sounds like you have those feelings again    Bummer..

Have you lost your interest in Music and playing your new piano? I know you said you were busy with school, but do you still play once in a while? Perhaps getting back into it would be a good way to regain some perspective by doing something you enjoy. I know it can be frustrating as a beginner and results don't come instantly.  Doing a little practice every day or so, you will be amazed at your progress over time.  Maybe getting some lessons from a hip teacher will help to keep you focused on your dream and love of music. 

As for the fights, well..
Have you and Hubby ever set ground rules? I mean have you sat down (not while fighting) and come to agreements about boundries..    example ..   arguments are ok . ..
throwing things,  pushing,  grabbbing neck, breaking glasses, is not ok.... 
 Violence in not a good thing and if not kept in check will progress.  Nip it in the bud now  before it becomes a routine.  I think your therapist is best qualified to help you and your hubby with this, or at least advise you on where to go to get the help you need.  A little education for you and your hubby about how to deal with anger and frustration will work wonders once you both learn how to constructively deal with the issues each of you have.  Think of it as college for couples.

If you have thoughts of wanting to be independant, that is normal, but needs to be addressed. You may need to find a quiet or safe place you can go regularly for "Aloe time" where you can just be yourself for a while.

Keep busy on your piano practice, I want to hear a performance by you soon, ok?

Jason

[Shadow]

This is good information for Aloe to know.

 
I am curious Shadow, if this clown was choking and abusing a local Belgium girl (instead of a nice FSU foreign girl), would his behavior also be "tolerated" by them ?

Are Belgium women submissive?

Also, how does the Belgium society (in general) view men choking/abusing their girlfriends or wives?

GOB

It would, as always, depend. Some would accept almost anything, others would kick him out of the door.

I know a story from a Dutch girl who had a bad news boyfriend who thought about hitting her. While she looked like a skinny model, she had training in several martial arts as well as being a professional security guard.
Needless to say that the boyfriend needed a doctor....

[BC]

Within most of EU that i know it would be difficult to claim abuse without a well situated third party giving evidence.  Its not like the US.

Plusses and minuses here.. Imho

[Gator]

It would, as always, depend. Some would accept almost anything, others would kick him out of the door.

I know a story from a Dutch girl who had a bad news boyfriend who thought about hitting her. While she looked like a skinny model, she had training in several martial arts as well as being a professional security guard.
Needless to say that the boyfriend needed a doctor....

The girl with the dragon tattoo was also thin, and we know what she did to her state guardian.

[TheTraveler]

The girl with the dragon tattoo was also thin, and we know what she did to her state guardian.

now that was a classic!

[Manny]

Within most of EU that i know it would be difficult to claim abuse without a well situated third party giving evidence.  Its not like the US.

Not in the UK. In the UK, one phone call and the guy is right down the pokey - just like in the US. If not worse than the US. The guy is never innocent and the woman never malicious here.

A pal of mine experienced this only recently. The court wouldn't let him go back to his own home even for months. A drunken attack by the woman, led to her calling the cops and them ending up fitting cameras and panic buttons in his house! Complete overkill. The whole government machine moved against him in a heartbeat. They wouldn't even accept a retraction from his wife when she saw what she caused the next day. She admitted she attacked him and was very drunk and they didn't care. They only wanted a conviction - facts and circumstances were irrelevant. They don't even need a prosecution witness any more..... only an original allegation. Drunken and uncorroborated doesn't matter.

Thankfully, he had enough cash to get good enough lawyers that he got back home pretty lively and got all the snooping electronics out of his house. Charges were dropped.

[missAmeno]

Also, your selfish, self centred man-boy of a husband needs to be told that if he can't get over himself he will lose you. You need to say this plainly and without equivocation as men can be very good at hearing what they want to hear rather than what is said.

Wrong.

Aloe, never ever say you walk away if he doesnt stop. You only can say that if you have safe place to go straight away. Almost always such statements do reverse from what we hoping to achieve by saying them. Even if it will not cause immediate violent outburst, it will lower his trust to you and can push him to try to control your freedom in some way.
 

[Belvis]

i do feel like killing myself after every argument, cuz i'm too lazy to deal with life. And cuz life is empty. But i'm too chickenchit to hurt myself, so looks like i'm stuck here.

If life is empty you can do nothing. You may dare to divorce and jump in illegal status. Life will be full of diverse content, but you've got  a chance you'll like back the taste of regular life. Another idea: drop the college temporarily and find a waitress  job  for a couple month- existence determines consciousness. 

[calmissile]

Not in the UK. In the UK, one phone call and the guy is right down the pokey - just like in the US. If not worse than the US. The guy is never innocent and the woman never malicious here.

A pal of mine experienced this only recently. The court wouldn't let him go back to his own home even for months. A drunken attack by the woman, led to her calling the cops and them ending up fitting cameras and panic buttons in his house! Complete overkill. The whole government machine moved against him in a heartbeat. They wouldn't even accept a retraction from his wife when she saw what she caused the next day. She admitted she attacked him and was very drunk and they didn't care. They only wanted a conviction - facts and circumstances were irrelevant. They don't even need a prosecution witness any more..... only an original allegation. Drunken and uncorroborated doesn't matter.

Thankfully, he had enough cash to get good enough lawyers that he got back home pretty lively and got all the snooping electronics out of his house. Charges were dropped.

Not necessarily.  I am not sure of all states and juristictions, but in California the police often try to sort out who did what to who based on witnesses and physical evidence before deciding who, if anyone goes to jail.  Years ago, it was much more like you describe but the cops are more savy to the false charges made by either parties.  In some cases, they both go to jail.   LOL

My Russian neighbor has told me stories about some Russian women/American men couples whereby the women actually beat up on the men!  They are all since divorced.

[Doll]

Wrong.

Aloe, never ever say you walk away if he doesnt stop. You only can say that if you have safe place to go straight away. Almost always such statements do reverse from what we hoping to achieve by saying them. Even if it will not cause immediate violent outburst, it will lower his trust to you and can push him to try to control your freedom in some way.
 

+100

[kmin]

Aloe,

Sorry to hear about these problems.  If you want to talk hit me up on skype (you have me in your contacts)

I agree with others here.  This is going to get worse and not better if something doesn't change.

Both of you should definitely set some limits on fighting that should never be crossed.  He needs to understand that ANY physical contact when he is angry is WRONG.  If he can't control himself when he gets angry than he needs to leave the house and come back when he has cooled down.

You may have to work on your temper too.  In a way it seems the two of you are both short tempered and just get each other riled up even worse when the two of you get get angry at the same time.

[Jumper]

Aloe,

Sorry to hear about these problems.  If you want to talk hit me up on skype (you have me in your contacts)

I agree with others here.  This is going to get worse and not better if something doesn't change.

Both of you should definitely set some limits on fighting that should never be crossed.  He needs to understand that ANY physical contact when he is angry is WRONG.  If he can't control himself when he gets angry than he needs to leave the house and come back when he has cooled down.

You may have to work on your temper too.  In a way it seems the two of you are both short tempered and just get each other riled up even worse when the two of you get get angry at the same time.

x2

[LiveFromUkraine]

Aloe, sorry to hear the bad news.

You both need counseling.  If your husband doesn't get help, along with you, the marriage won't work.

Sometimes things happen and we lose respect for each other, harbor feelings that create animosity which builds up into bad fights.  That type of stuff will only get worst unless both parties deal with it. 

It doesn't matter how great things are when both are happy. 

[Doll]

If he abused Aloe physically, and Aloe let it go then he will do it again (and again). 
Talks like "I will leave you if you hit me again" will do nothing just because she let it go once. See what she writes? " I am a terrible person, I am worthless", etc.

[LiveFromUkraine]

See what she writes? " I am a terrible person, I am worthless", etc.

Is that from abuse or something else?

Either way, that needs to be fixed before any type of relationship can work.  Aloe should be putting herself first and foremost and fix whatever it is that is making her unhappy. 

[Doll]

Is that from abuse or something else?

Either way, that needs to be fixed before any type of relationship can work.  Aloe should be putting herself first and foremost and fix whatever it is that is making her unhappy.

What "that"?

[LiveFromUkraine]

What "that"?

"That" would be the stuff she says and thinks about herself.  She won't have a happy relationship if she isn't happy with herself.

[Hammer2722]

LiveFromUkraine is correct. It seems from that statement she may have some self-esteem issues. She needs to work on these before any relationship will work for her either now or in her future.