More Bad News for Russia

[cc3]

http://southfront.org/foreign-policy-diary-donbass-further-escalation-of-violence/

As I said things are very likely to go hot very quickly.

What a bunch of moskal anti-Ukraine propaganda! The server for southfront.org is in Belize...too ashamed of their neo-imperialist and mobbed-up Putinista connections?

http://www.rferl.org/content/podcast-all-mobbed-up-russia-putin-mafia/27717810.html

[msmobyone]

I SEE too! 

Nope, you have seen / read about it in various forms of media..

NOTHING beats having been there ...

My 'beef' with you was not understanding how Russian's 'fear' of invasion is being played on ...... So don't bring up the NATO base, again ...

[fathertime]

My 'beef' with you was not understanding how Russian's 'fear' of invasion is being played on ...... So don't bring up the NATO base, again ...

I don't suspect the leadership fears an invasion of Russia, and it was the leadership that decided to permit the NATO military base because they knew they could contain it...I still don't see how all this is proof that Russia isn't being surrounded by an aggressive West. 

Nope, you have seen / read about it in various forms of media..

NOTHING beats having been there ...

In 12 hours I'll be outside the USA...but I don't suspect that makes my opinion of the countries I am in as being so bulletproof that it can't be questioned by ANYBODY  who wants to!   If I were to exercise a strong opinion, I'd expect to hear something about it. 


Fathertime!   

[msmobyone]

My 'beef' with you was not understanding how Russian's 'fear' of invasion is being played on ...... So don't bring up the NATO base, again ...

I don't suspect the leadership fears an invasion of Russia

Thanks for demonstrating why it is not possible to 'debate' with someone who persists in responding to MENDY's point ..

Clue.. I took you up on not understanding how Russian people think - not the regime ..

I don't suspect that makes my opinion of the countries I am in as being so bulletproof that it can't be questioned by ANYBODY  who wants to!   If I were to exercise a strong opinion, I'd expect to hear something about it. 

You have...

[fathertime]

Thanks for demonstrating why it is not possible to 'debate' with someone who persists in responding to MENDY's point ..

Clue.. I took you up on not understanding how Russian people think - not the regime ..

You have...

You are simply making things up.  The discussion about a military base did not pertain to the 'Russian people'..the leadership was making the decisions and I don't believe are fearful of Russia being invaded...The point I was making... that should have been obvious as they are the ones making the decisions regarding the military base.


 Get a clue, so you can add something to the points being made, not a point that nobody made!


Fathertime! 

[msmobyone]

You are simply making things up. 

I'm quoting your words...

The discussion about a military base did not pertain to the 'Russian people'..

Sighs, it seems I must lead you by the nose ... I pointed out that the Kremlin prey on Russians' fear of invasion ...Mendy brought up the base ..two different points ... I pointed out you couldn't comprehend - try to justify this paranoia without having been here.....[Russia]

I hope your memory issues will be resolved, soon

 Get a clue, so you can add something to the points being made, not a point that nobody made!

  That's my laughing at your missing the irony - once more...

[fathertime]

I'm quoting your words...

Sighs, it seems I must lead you by the nose ... I pointed out that the Kremlin prey on Russians' fear of invasion ...Mendy brought up the base ..two different points ... I pointed out you couldn't comprehend - try to justify this paranoia without having been here.....[Russia]

I hope your memory issues will be resolved, soon


  That's my laughing at your missing the irony - once more...

I guess I'm discussing something with a person who hasn't learned to think very clearly. 




To the point I was addressing that Mendeleyev made...I don't see how having the NATO military base proves that the west isn't aggressive and surrounding Russia.  It is obvious that the Russian leadership isn't too concerned about an invasion.  It is also obvious that the Russian people probably feel differently.  None of this changes, the point I made and hasn't been addressed:
 How does the former NATO military base prove that the West hasn't been aggressive and surrounding Russia?


Fathertime!

[msmobyone]

I guess I'm discussing something with a person who hasn't learned to think very clearly. 

Isn't it amazing ... you keep expressing my thoughts about your good self..the irony keeps passing over your head..

To the point I was addressing that Mendeleyev made...

I keep trying to tell you - address THAT to HIM .. 




In the meantime

[fathertime]

Isn't it amazing ... you keep expressing my thoughts about your good self..the irony keeps passing over your head..

yes yes...'the irony'...haha...

I keep trying to tell you - address THAT to HIM .. 

I have addressed that point to mendeleyev, and really anyone else who would like to discuss. 


Fathertime!   

[msmobyone]

I have addressed that point to mendeleyev, and really anyone else who would like to discuss. 

..and deflected from mine... constantly telling me  what you said to Mendy - like I was interested..

I know now - you had no answer to my point and hoped to bore the readers.

[AkMike]

4 Russian Gold Medals from the Sochi Olympics are due to steroid doping according to Vitaly Stepanov. More to come on "60 Minutes" a CBS news program.

 http://www.rferl.org/content/report-charges-four-russian-gold-medalist-sochi-olympics-took-steriods-cbs-60-minutes-stepanov/27720872.html

[fathertime]

..and deflected from mine... constantly telling me  what you said to Mendy - like I was interested..

I know now - you had no answer to my point and hoped to bore the readers.

I don't even know what your point was/is.  If there is something you would like to say, that I can clarify, I'd be delighted to.  Just fire away!


Fathertime! 

[sleepycat]

There is a very big difference between someone who has experienced the life, and a person who has opinions but no experience in the subject.

In 12 hours I'll be outside the USA...

FT is finally listening to Mendy and making a trip to the FSU to gain some real life experience on the topic of his fluff opinions.

 

[Anotherkiwi]

FT is finally listening to Mendy and making a trip to the FSU to gain some real life experience on the topic of his fluff opinions.

 

Somehow I doubt it.  He's far more likely to be going to South America to visit his in-laws.

[msmobyone]

I don't even know what your point was/is. 

EXACTLY..

I have mentioned it several times - clue -Russian paranoia of invasion being used by the Kremlin to provoke  negative views towards nations seeking NATO membership..

A troll tactic is to attack the poster rather than discuss the subject - you even forgot the subject that got you in the circle 

Further hint ... I wondered how you were in a position to understand having never been to Russia - not seeing / understanding the state media or media controlled by bessie mates' of the state .... and questioning how you could comprehend the ease upon which such fears were played ?

If you read a post - properly -- before knee-jerk responses - one might believe you were interested in debate / learning...  You.. you kept telling me about a Nato base in Russia - which I never raised and pointed out 3 rimes..I even told you that you should respond to the poster that had ...Mendy

In conclusion - being charitable - I suggest you are inattentive and unworthy of my time.  I have said this before - but my generous side kept saying, the guy is receptive to learning / understanding

It is impossible to debate with a guy who admits he forgot how he arrived at such a situation - having been given plenty of clues..

I apologise if you have reading comprehension difficulties - then I could understand.

[fathertime]

EXACTLY..

I have mentioned it several times - clue -Russian paranoia of invasion being used by the Kremlin to provoke  negative views towards nations seeking NATO membership..

What a stupid post!


The issue you raised was addressed, but not in great depth, because it was a 1st grade conclusion, and I didn't disagree with it.


As far as travel goes, I don't think your sunbathing travels to Russia taught you very much, but if you want to use it as 'currency' you obviously can! It is not going to substitute for common sense. 

It is impossible to debate with a guy who admits he forgot how he arrived at such a situation - having been given plenty of clues..

As I mentioned earlier, I didn't realize the earlier point was SOOO important to you! As it turns out, I had already addressed it earlier.  It is YOU that is proving to be a little muddled up mentally.  If there was a point to discuss, I was/am willing to do so, but I've already expressed myself on this particular point, and you must have just not liked the response. 


Fathertime! 

[msmobyone]

The issue you raised was addressed, but not in great depth, because it was a 1st grade conclusion, and I didn't disagree with it.

Ah, 'excuse me'... either I have reading difficulties or it took you upteen posts and many reminders to get a VALID response...

This poster keeps forgetting you penchant for floundering around for valid ripostes and is on the beach enjoying quality time with loved ones..You have now exceeded your daily allowance for my attention...

Bon voyage...

[fathertime]

Ah, 'excuse me'... either I have reading difficulties or it took you upteen posts and many reminders to get a VALOD response...

I actually have no idea what you are referring to...that is the truth.  If there was a subject that actually needed a response, I'd have responded. 

This poster keeps forgetting you penchant for floundering around for valid ripostes and is on the beach enjoying quality time with loved ones..You have now exceeded your daily allowance for my attention...

Bon voyage...

Oh come on!  I'm sure you dredge up something recent to disagree with me on!  I've made lots of debatable posts. 


Well, enjoy your day in the sun then.


Fathertime!   

[Boethius]

http://southfront.org/foreign-policy-diary-donbass-further-escalation-of-violence/

As I said things are very likely to go hot very quickly.

This is hardly newsworthy.  This is typical, and has been with every ceasefire.

[Boethius]

I SEE too!  And what I see is that your earlier quoted post didn't make logical sense, you have had opportunities to explain it further, but what I SEE currently is that instead of doing that, you are in essence saying that I shouldn't be commenting on what you said.   That can be called deflection. 


So how does what amounted to a temporary NATO military base in Russia, which provided Russia real benefits, prove that the West isn't aggressive or surrounding Russia?  I SEE flawed logic in what you said, but perhaps you are holding back a more rational explanation. 




Fathertime!

Russia met with NATO a couple of weeks ago, the first time in two years.

Russian leaders have never felt threatened by NATO.  By America, yes.  By NATO, no.  The sale of NATO as a threat is to enable the Russian leadership to rebuild its armed forces, which takes precious resources from other pressing domestic matters, such as housing, hospitals, and roads.  The breakdown and Russia's "fear" of NATO coincided with their invasion of Georgia.  Coincidence?

Someone upthread stated that the US promised NATO would not expand into Eastern Europe.  That is not accurate.  Gorbachev stated that, as has Lavrov, but the Americans dispute this, and there is no proof that such a promise was ever made.  What is NATO to do when the Poles, Lithuanians, Estonians, etc., who have been occupied quite brutally by the Russians, ask for NATO protection?

NATO has never been a threat to Russia.  The IMF and the US did many things on the collapse of the USSR which prolonged the pain of Russians, primarily by insisting on Jeffrey Sach's "shock therapy", which resulted in complete economic collapse.  A better path would have been the one followed by Poland (which also implemented shock therapy, but in a very different way).  However, other factors also caused Russia's problems, including the continued Duma power of former commies who stymied real reform at every turn, yearning for a return to the rotten system that ensured their complete hegemony.  Furthermore, unlike Poland, Russia had no historical tradition of democracy, and the authoritarian nature of its central government continues unabated.

[Larry1]

What is NATO to do when the Poles, Lithuanians, Estonians, etc., who have been occupied quite brutally by the Russians, ask for NATO protection?

Interesting question.

1. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia

While they are NATO members it would be difficult for NATO put significant land forces there to stop a full-fledged Russian invasion. There are probably enough ethnic Russians within those countries for Russia to use as a pretext for invasion. And Russia could lie, as it did about its invasion of Ukraine, and send in Russian troops with their insignia removed.

All three of the Baltic Republics are very small and have very small militaries. A full-fledged Russian invasion could be over before NATO could do much about it. NATO could use air power to slow such an invasion down though.

2. Poland

I don't think Putin is reckless enough to invade Poland. Poland has a large and fairly effective military. A Russian invasion would be much more difficult than its incursion into Eastern Ukraine, even without NATO assistance. And I think NATO would send member forces to help Poland repel a Russian invasion.

It would be much easier for the large NATO members to get land forces into Poland than it would be to get them into the Baltic Republics.

The Putin administration can lie with impunity to the Russian people to cover up the deaths of a few hundred or a few thousand dead Russian soldiers, as it did to cover up its invasion of Eastern Ukraine. But this would be much harder to do if 20-30,000 Russians die in Poland.

Furthermore, it's not likely that Russia has enough money to sustain a long war in Poland. Modern warfare costs a lot.  Russia's economy is not doing well.  If the costs of a major war cause it to really tank perhaps even the fanatically patriotic Russian citizens will stop their support of the government.  I think Russia still has a draft. A lot of parents of boys might react badly to sending their sons to risk dying in a foreign war that did not have to be fought. Governments have fallen for such reasons.

I know that I've said that the average Russian would full-throatedly defend Russia's government even if he were living in a three foot slit trench with a sheet of plastic to keep out the snow and rain and only a potato and half a head of molding cabbage to eat. But this is a slight exaggeration.

[calmissile]

Agree Larry.

[TigerPaws]

Obama Requests Support for Possible War Against RussiaU.S. President Barack Obama is “demanding the active deployment of the Bundeswehr [Germany’s armed forces, including their Army, Navy, and Air Force] to NATO’s eastern borders” at Poland and the Baltic republics, to join the quadrupling of America’s forces there, on and near those borders of Russia. (This is an extreme violation of what Russian leader Mikhail Gorbachev agreed to when he ended the Soviet Union and its NATO-mirror organization the Warsaw Pact, but it’s actually culminating a process that began shortly after he agreed to America’s terms, which included that NATO “not move one inch to the east.”)

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2016/04/obama-requests-support-possible-war-russia.html

http://www.globalresearch.ca/obama-requests-eu-support-for-possible-war-against-russia/5521560

[mendeleyev]

TP, I had to laugh at that first link. It is so beyond silly that I hope you only posted it in jest.

For example, the idea that Russia was protecting Crimeans from US takeover almost made me spill my tea! The article would be funny were it not truly pathetic.


Another example:

Right after Crimeans voted overwhelmingly to rejoin Russia, Obama slapped sanctions against Russia (even though Western-sponsored polls in Crimea, both before and after the coup, had shown higher than 90% support by Crimeans for rejoining with Russia), and nuclear weapons were prepared, both on the U.S.-EU side and on the Russian side, for a possible nuclear war.

Here is the truth about the Crimean referendum:

- Unmarked Russian forces stormed the pro-Russian parliament, disbanded it, and then appointed new leadership. That is the only "coup" that took place in Ukraine that year.

- The Kremlin had done extensive polling for months prior to annexation of Ukraine. They had a majority, but not as overwhelming as your boys suggest. That is why Crimean citizens who showed up at the polls were turned away if they only had Ukrainian passports.

- These guys you link are so stupid that they believe it was a legitimate election. What is legit about a referendum that only included two questions, but neither of the two questions gave voters the option to remain as part of Ukraine?! The only two options were to leave Ukraine and join the Russian Federation, or to leave Ukraine and appeal to the RF for protective status.

Even Russian opposition nationalists like Alexi Navalny who applaud the annexation, agree that the referendum was illegitimate, saying that a real referendum should be conducted in the near future.

[TigerPaws]

TP, I had to laugh at that first link. It is so beyond silly that I hope you only posted it in jest.

For example, the idea that Russia was protecting Crimeans from US takeover almost made me spill my tea! The article would be funny were it not truly pathetic.


Another example:


Here is the truth about the Crimean referendum:

- Unmarked Russian forces stormed the pro-Russian parliament, disbanded it, and then appointed new leadership. That is the only "coup" that took place in Ukraine that year.

- The Kremlin had done extensive polling for months prior to annexation of Ukraine. They had a majority, but not as overwhelming as your boys suggest. That is why Crimean citizens who showed up at the polls were turned away if they only had Ukrainian passports.

- These guys you link are so stupid that they believe it was a legitimate election. What is legit about a referendum that only included two questions, but neither of the two questions gave voters the option to remain as part of Ukraine?! The only two options were to leave Ukraine and join the Russian Federation, or to leave Ukraine and appeal to the RF for protective status.

Even Russian opposition nationalists like Alexi Navalny who applaud the annexation, agree that the referendum was illegitimate, saying that a real referendum should be conducted in the near future.

Reality check: Russia now controls the Crimea, Russia is not going to give it back. Everything else is a mute point. Who was right and who was wrong is immaterial any more.

Russia intends to keep Crimea and will use all necessary force of arms to keep it.

Ukraine cannot win a war against Russia to reclaim the Crimean territory and the west will not risk Thermonuclear War with Russia.

Ergo Crimea is now part of Russia. Argument over, case closed. Time to move on.