More Bad News for Russia

[BC]

Polish Artist Jerzy Bohdan Szumczyk has unveiled a statue "Komm Frau" [Come Woman] to commemorate the Soviet soldiers rape of thousands of women on their way to Berlin in the ending years of the war..

Needless to say that Moscow's a bit miffed..

http://www.macleans.ca/politics/polish-artist-jerzy-bohdan-szumczyks-monument-to-hate/

AKMike,
I really, really wish you would cease your incessant one-liner posts that have no purpose at all other than to somehow try and raise an eyebrow or two here or there.  This is an article from 3 years ago and you unveil it now as if it was recent.. jeez.. start your own board and paste all you want.

[msmobyone]

Fact is- any nuclear issue at this time would come from Russia on some bs pretence. As it stands-the only country abiding the Budapest agreement is Ukraine- but   they are now moving to rectify that piece of trust and bad judgment.

I think you might be more accurate when 'knocking' folk to refer to them as pro- Kremlin rather than pro Russian..

The Kremlin say 'Ukraine broke the Budapest Memorandum' ... by 'illegally removing the legit president', Yanu' ....

btw what is happening about trying him in absentia for his and family members' alleged corrupt practices ?

[TigerPaws]

Russian Exodus From Kazakhstan Continues Unabated

http://russia-insider.com/en/russian-exodus-kazakhstan-continues-unabated/ri14258

While this might at first glance be bad news for Russia it mirrors what happened to my wife who was born and raised in Tajikistan during the Soviet era. Once Tajikistan became independent it quickly  to began revert to its ethnic roots, Tajik became the official language, Islamic Fundamentalism began to rise and ethnic Russians we regulated to second class status.

Then the country descended into a bloody civil war as the various factions pushed for power. Many like my wife, her family and numerous others left for Russia which as it turned out was to their advantage in the early days of the post Soviet Russia.

Even with the current economic difficulties Russia is experiencing today 25,000 to 30,000 political and economic refuges per year can be absorbed in a general population of over 160 million but their opportunities will be reduced.

Generally speaking Russia's population has until recently been on the decline due to a low birth rate so any immigration is a net benefit.

[Boethius]

Russians do not have second class status in Kazakhstan.  I know this, as I have relatives (in laws) who live in Astana.

What most Westerners do not know is how ethnic Russians often behaved in other republics during Soviet times.  They were sent to "Russify" those republics, and, most often, viewed themselves as superior to the locals.  My husband remembers vividly seeing this on display in a couple of the Baltic republics.  The locals always assumed he was local, and would comment to him, usually in a language he didn't speak, about the boorish behaviour of the Russians around him.

This even occurred in Ukraine, mostly in Western Ukraine, up to the collapse.  The population there was viewed as suspect, it was ruled not from Kyiv, but from Moscow, and all key positions were held by ethnic Russians who were not locals.

Soviet and post Soviet societies were, and still are, about who is the "boss".  A "boss" garners respect and can get away with many bad behaviours.  This is something many who emigrate from post Soviet countries to the West have issues with.  I've seen it first hand.  It is difficult for them to adjust to the fact that here, they are just another average schmuck.  That is also what is happening with Russians moving back to Russia.  Some of it is opportunity (more in Russia than in most of the former republics).  But is also about that loss of position/respect.

[TigerPaws]

Russians do not have second class status in Kazakhstan.  I know this, as I have relatives (in laws) who live in Astana.

What most Westerners do not know is how ethnic Russians often behaved in other republics during Soviet times.  They were sent to "Russify" those republics, and, most often, viewed themselves as superior to the locals.  My husband remembers vividly seeing this on display in a couple of the Baltic republics.  The locals always assumed he was local, and would comment to him, usually in a language he didn't speak, about the boorish behaviour of the Russians around him.

This even occurred in Ukraine, mostly in Western Ukraine, up to the collapse.  The population there was viewed as suspect, it was ruled not from Kyiv, but from Moscow, and all key positions were held by ethnic Russians who were not locals.

Soviet and post Soviet societies were, and still are, about who is the "boss".  A "boss" garners respect and can get away with many bad behaviours.  This is something many who emigrate from post Soviet countries to the West have issues with.  I've seen it first hand.  It is difficult for them to adjust to the fact that here, they are just another average schmuck.  That is also what is happening with Russians moving back to Russia.  Some of it is opportunity (more in Russia than in most of the former republics).  But is also about that loss of position/respect.

Most of what you said is correct, the Soviet Union wanted to force integration and homogenize the republics under its rule. That of course always ends well.

Hundreds of thousands of ethnic Russians were relocated to the various republics in order to achieve the goal of  integration and homogenization. Russian was the official language, local cultural practices were actively discouraged or suppressed.

Peace and harmony was guaranteed by brute force. It is little wonder that once the oppression was removed that nationalism grew in attempt to regain the local identity.

For lack of a better regional terms the Stans are ethnically, culturally and religiously different than traditional Russian culture. Islam which is on the rise in these areas is fundamentally at odds with the most basic of western values, the two systems cannot survive within each other sphere of influence. As these regions push for their own unique culture, language and values many ethnic Russian will opt to leave.   

[AkMike]

AKMike,
I really, really wish you would cease your incessant one-liner posts that have no purpose

Count the lines  silly..

 That was just a reminder of some of the horrors from WWII. I didn't know that you put an expiration date on mass rape. But maybe that's just you? 

[BC]

Count the lines  silly..

 That was just a reminder of some of the horrors from WWII. I didn't know that you put an expiration date on mass rape. But maybe that's just you? 

Ok so the topic is now war horrors....How about Vietnam and mass murders?  In one incident alone 500 civilians killed in 4 hours and a lunch break. Or how about  5000-7000 civilians killed in one operation alone just to be the king of kills with slogans like "If it's dead and Vietnamese, it's VC", days off or a case of beer for the highest body count for the week.

Any War is pure hell where very worst of mankind comes out in full force from all sides involved. 

No army is immune so what's the point of your post?

[TigerPaws]

There are no good players on the world scene, Russia, China, England, Israel and America among others each have their own agenda. When their goals are aligned they work together, sometimes against each other, always in their own best interests be that for good or evil.

[msmobyone]

There are no good players on the world scene, Russia, China, England, Israel and America among others each have their own agenda. When their goals are aligned they work together, sometimes against each other, always in their own best interests be that for good or evil.

I'm not aware the UK has broken up, yet...Why do uniformed folk from across the pond refer to 'English'  and England' when they mean British and Britain...?

Carry on - cranky moment passed

[Muzh]

I'm not aware the UK has broken up, yet...Why do uniformed folk from across the pond refer to 'English'  and England' when they mean British and Britain...?

Carry on - cranky moment passed

I think it has to do with the last vestiges of rebellion from the colonials. 

[TigerPaws]

I think it has to do with the last vestiges of rebellion from the colonials. 

Just remember that these "Colonials" kicked England's sorry ASS twice and if was not for the sacrifices of "We the People" of the United States of America the official language of England would likely be German today and the first Atomic Bomb might have gone off over London.

It would take almost 3 of that little piss ass little country to make up 1 Texas and with a total population of around 66 million, California, Florida and Texas have a bigger population, not to mention the other 47 states. It takes around 5 to 6 hours to drive the length of England, it takes 11 hours to drive from corner to corner across Texas.

The brits are a bit to arrogant and self absorbed for their own good.

[Boethius]

Most of what you said is correct, the Soviet Union wanted to force integration and homogenize the republics under its rule. That of course always ends well.

Hundreds of thousands of ethnic Russians were relocated to the various republics in order to achieve the goal of  integration and homogenization. Russian was the official language, local cultural practices were actively discouraged or suppressed.

Peace and harmony was guaranteed by brute force. It is little wonder that once the oppression was removed that nationalism grew in attempt to regain the local identity.

For lack of a better regional terms the Stans are ethnically, culturally and religiously different than traditional Russian culture. Islam which is on the rise in these areas is fundamentally at odds with the most basic of western values, the two systems cannot survive within each other sphere of influence. As these regions push for their own unique culture, language and values many ethnic Russian will opt to leave. 

No, that is not quite accurate.  The masses were not Russian.  It was at the party level that most of this took place.

There were policies of Russification, however, each republic did have information still printed in its own language, each had its own schools (though lack of Russian would be a career limiting move).  The issue related to the republics' languages and cultures was about nationalism rather than homogenization.

The CPSU did want to create a new man, free from the constraints of the past, as that was a central tenet of Bolshevism. 

[TigerPaws]

No, that is not quite accurate.  The masses were not Russian.  It was at the party level that most of this took place.

There were policies of Russification, however, each republic did have information still printed in their own languages, they had their own schools.  The issue related to the republics' language and culture was about nationalism rather than homogenization.

The CPSU did want to create a new man, free from the constraints of the past, as that was a central tenet of Bolshevism.

We need to keep in mind that we are discussing in broad generalities not specifics.

[Boethius]

I'm talking ideology, not generalities.

The proletariat was expected to know Russian, because it was the language of Lenin, the leader of the world's proletariat.  Mayakovsky was, according to the CPSU, the "world's greatest proletarian poet" -

Да будь я хоть негром преклонных годов,
И то б, без унынья и лени,
Я русский бы выучил только за то,
Что им разговаривал Ленин!  - В. Маяковский

[TigerPaws]

I'm talking ideology, not generalities.

The proletariat was expected to know Russian, because it was the language of Lenin, the leader of the world's proletariat.  Mayakovsky was, according to the CPSU, the "world's greatest proletarian poet" -

Да будь я хоть негром преклонных годов,
И то б, без унынья и лени,
Я русский бы выучил только за то,
Что им разговаривал Ленин!  - В. Маяковский

For the purposes of discussion it is irrelevant if the language is Russian or Chinese backwards. The locals were required to learn the establishment's designated language and the local language was suppressed as was the culture and religious practices.

All of this was enforced by the muzzle of a gun.

Once this threat was gone the locals quickly moved to reestablish their former culture and language. Hatred of the former oppressors is to be expected even if those remaining had nothing to do with the oppression.      

[Boethius]

There were policies of Russification, but no, you are incorrect.  Local languages were not suppressed.  Every republic in the USSR had schools where one could learn the local language.  Other than in Stalinist times, the policies were far more subtle than you state, though the intent, and practically, the effect, was the same.

[Boethius]

In Ukraine, if a child attended a Russian school, he/she was required to learn Ukrainian as a second language, and vice versa. I know this was true in Estonia and Kazakhstan as well.

What was ruthlessly oppressed was any expression of nationalism.

[TigerPaws]

In Ukraine, if a child attended a Russian school, he/she was required to learn Ukrainian as a second language, and vice versa. I know this was true in Estonia and Kazakhstan as well.

What was ruthlessly oppressed was any expression of nationalism.

The key word is suppressed. 

[Boethius]

Nationalism and national identity, though, differ from language.

Nationalism was not oppressed because of a policy of Russification.  It was oppressed because Marxism viewed national identity as a remnant of the bourgeoisie.  Lenin held these views as well, however, he modified it by allowing NEP, to save his Revolution.  Under NEP, which first was introduced in Ukraine, national identity and national consciousness flourished.  The late 1920's/early 1930's produced a great amount of Ukrainian literature and critical thought.  But that strengthened national identity meant a different path of the Revolution, which is why it eventually was cut.  However, the NEP pattern was replicated in almost all the other Soviet republics.

Without NEP, the Civil War in Ukraine would have lasted much longer, and Petliura might have won, eventually.

I will also add that policies of Russification predate the communists in Ukraine.  Read about the Ems Ukaz for the historical background.

[fathertime]

There are no good players on the world scene, Russia, China, England, Israel and America among others each have their own agenda. When their goals are aligned they work together, sometimes against each other, always in their own best interests be that for good or evil.

it seems that most like to think of their home nation as being 'good'....maybe that is human nature.... In recent years, by taking a step or two back and listening to the other side, it seems pretty clear to me that your statement is true.  I can accept that our nation (The USA) is not much different than others, although we have the most power/money/influence so our misdeeds are packaged more neatly with ribbons and bows, so more people purchase them.


If for some reason in the future something changes and another nation is in our position, our citizenry would probably feel differently about a lot of things as it pertains to the world stage, and how events are perceived....


Fathertime! 

[TigerPaws]

it seems that most like to think of their home nation as being 'good'....maybe that is human nature.... In recent years, by taking a step or two back and listening to the other side, it seems pretty clear to me that your statement is true.  I can accept that our nation (The USA) is not much different than others, although we have the most power/money/influence so our misdeeds are packaged more neatly with ribbons and bows, so more people purchase them.

If for some reason in the future something changes and another nation is in our position, our citizenry would probably feel differently about a lot of things as it pertains to the world stage, and how events are perceived....

Fathertime!

A little like most people believe (wrongly I might add) that there elected representative is honest and that the others are crooks, when in fact all of them are crooks to one extent or another.

[AkMike]

Ukraine trails at #5 


 The Economist compares crony capitalism in the world and Russia leads by a healthy margin! Congrats... 

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2016/05/daily-chart-2

[Boethius]

So Ukraine is still one of the most corrupt countries in the world, and that's a cause of celebration?

I think the Economist's rankings are strange.  Singapore more corrupt than Ukraine?  Really?

In Russia, the political elite determine the power of the oligarchs.  In Ukraine, the oligarchs determine the power of the political elite.  Which one of those sounds more corrupt?

[LiveFromUkraine]

So Ukraine is still one of the most corrupt countries in the world, and that's a cause of celebration?

I think the Economist's rankings are strange.  Singapore more corrupt than Ukraine?  Really?

In Russia, the political elite determine the power of the oligarchs.  In Ukraine, the oligarchs determine the power of the political elite.  Which one of those sounds more corrupt?

haha  As long as Ukraine is doing better than Russia, it's all good. 

[TigerPaws]

haha  As long as Ukraine is doing better than Russia, it's all good. 

Ukraine doing better than Russia? Are you insane?

Ukraine is bordering on becoming a failed state, the country is broke, the U.S. took all 33 tons of Ukraine's physical gold reserves and Russia is adding to its gold reserves which officially exceed 1352.21 tons. Russia I making trade agreements with numerous other countries to trade in their currency, not dollars.

And much more.

Ukraine is a small unimportant country with little more than Russian/Soviet pipelines passing through it which Europe depends on.

It is a pawn in the global game of who controls what.