Are you man enough for a RW?

[Ronnie]

My wife tells me what is wrong with me all the time.  She says it is because she is my friend and only friends tell the truth.  I told her I don't want to be friends anymore. 

Thomas

Great line Thomas!  Can I borrow it?

[Ronnie]

It sorta looks like there's no magic formula for who can and who cannot find happiness with an international marriage.  Other than druggies and stinkies and psychos, one can with diligence, find a good match somewhere.

My youngest daughter, the mother of my only grandchildren to date has the personality of an angel (neither her mother or I know where that came from  )  In other respects, she is very much like her dad, especially physically (not good if you're a girl!).  She's tall, big-boned with broad shoulders and a square jaw.  Did I mention she has the personality of an angel?

She got married 5 years ago to an terrific and bright guy...very tall, narrow shoulders, receding chin and from Argentina orignally.  At the wedding reception, the mutual friend who introduced them took great pride in being the one to bring these two unlikely candidates together.  He even composed a song and sang it.  The title was "Somewhere, there is someone for everyone." 

At the same time, my very good-looking older child, was married to a beautiful girl for about two years.  After their divorce he dated another beautiful girl who didn't want to ever get married and she meant it.  My son is now 35 and still single.  Sometimes I feel bad for him.  He has no interest in RW BTW and I don't push him in that direction. 

[vwrw]

(Note the 3 smiley faces?) 

No, I did not note any smiley faces in the post. There were only three shocked ones. That made it difficult to guess that you were kidding.

[KenC]

VWRW,
All the faces in yellow are "smilies", just with different expressions.  Humor is difficult to relay in this medium.  I was being very facetious at the time.
KenC

[Ronnie]

A financial planner friend of mine just sent me this today...

I did the math on the Paul McCartney-Heather Mills divorce. After 5 years of marriage, he paid her $49 million.

Assuming he banged her every night during their 5 year relationship
(and being married men, we all know THAT doesn't happen), it ends up costing him $26,849 per lay, not counting attorney's fees and court
costs.

On the other hand, Elliot Spitzer's call girl Kristen charges $4,000
an hour. Crazy, right?

But...

Had Paul McCartney employed Kristen for 5 years, he would've paid $7.3 million for an hour of sex every night for 5 years (a savings of
$41+million).

Value-added benefits are: a 22 year old hot babe, no begging, no
coaxing, never a headache, wide open menu, ability to put BOTH legs
around you, no bitching and complaining or "to do" lists. Best of
all, she leaves when you're done, and comes back the next day, ready
for another round. All at 1/7th the cost, with no legal fees.* *

Is it just me, or is it better to rent?

I don't know if this relevant but I once gave up a country club membership because my wife was letting me play golf so seldom  :crackthewhip: I figured it was costing me about $500 per round.

Decided it was better to go on a pay-per-play basis.  As I said, I don't know if it's relevant  :selfharm:

[Bob Smith]

A financial planner friend of mine just sent me this today...

I don't know if this relevant but I once gave up a country club membership because my wife was letting me play golf so seldom  :crackthewhip: I figured it was costing me about $500 per round.

Decided it was better to go on a pay-per-play basis.  As I said, I don't know if it's relevant  :selfharm:

Great quote Ronnie.  I'm a pretty conservative guy.  I've never been married... or divorced, no kids, plenty of education, career oriented etc, etc.  Basically I've tried everything in my power, besides going to the gym a lot more, to make myself a good potential husband.  Well after being in the dating market for over a decade I can honestly say most relationships between men and woman are prostitution.  The only difference is prostitution is more honest... and as your colleague pointed out far cheaper.  On another thread some people accused me of being too "literal" and "analytical."  Well I've worked in the financial services industry and I must say that if we applied the same metrics to our daily lives that we do to our investment strategies we would avoid a lot of the common mistakes.

If you have the time download and check out John McLaughlin's musings about the legalization of prostitution.  It was a nice debate.  Pat Buchanan weighed in.  It was the March 14th episode of The McLaughlin Group.  This is the link for the video podcast http://www.fednet.net/mg/MG031408.mp4.  The critical question is asked 6:45  into the program if you want to skip the rest.

Now these are just my observations.  I am not saying that AW are prostitutes and RW are more genuine or anything like that.  My experience in most countries where I've lived is... When the looks quotient of the female increases and the pay disparity between the male and female also increases then the propensity for bull$h-t goes into the stratosphere.

[Turboguy]

We seem to spend a lot of time talking about who can't succeed with a RW in various threads. 

We often tell blacks, Asians and hispanics they can't.   Then they go out and find a nice RW.

We often tell the very young they can't but they do.

We tell those with average incomes they can't.  The only FSU woman AM who I have met in this area live on his disability income since he can't work and probably won't ever be able to.   I know a number of others who make under the average income happily married to an FSU woman.

Let's see, Mspankey says, drinkers and drug users.  Well, first off he could there are no shortage of those in the FSU so he could find a female counterpart and there are no shortage of non drinking women married to RM.  I am sure some would marry an AM who drank heavy.  Drinking is almost a proof of manliness there anyway.

There was people who don't talk.  Heck, half the women RW or AM once they have been married a while do most of their chatting with other women anyway.  Men only want to talk about sports, work and things like that.  They would much rather talk to another woman about some ache or pain or a friend who is cheating on their mate anyway.   That is not going to stop them. 

Ronnie,  Don't take this seriously but if someone came on here and posted in their introduction that he had given up his country club membership because his wife did not let him play golf often everyone would be telling him he had zero chance with a RW.   

I am not saying that every single adult male in America can find a wife in the FSU but there are a lot who can who we say can not. 

[Gator]

We seem to spend a lot of time talking about who can't succeed with a RW in various threads.... I am not saying that every single adult male in America can find a wife in the FSU but there are a lot who can who we say can not. 

Jet nailed this earlier in the thread, yet I infer from your posts that you think even Jet’s characterization has a reasonable chance for success.  Yes, it is possible that almost any man can find a RW given the large number of RW listed with agencies.  However, is it reasonable?

None of the many RW whom I met seemed like the type who would be attracted to a man lacking in social skills.  Several spoke critically of western men who had preceded me.

I dated AW for a couple of years following my separation/divorce.  AW were plentiful if a man met two requirements: 

-  show up

-  act normal. 

So the men striking out with AW of their peer group are not normal in my opinion or do not know how to show up. 

Will this differ in Ukraine and Russia?  Yes and no.  The MOB agency interface eliminates the need to know how to "show up."  A man in Russia/Ukraine does not need to chat up and impress an unknown woman at Starbucks, a kiosk, a nightclub, etc.   For a fee an agency will arrange a meeting where a man has a RW all to himself for an hour, a dinner, etc.   This may give some men, particularly shy men, the confidence to try this endeavor, yet it does not change a non-desperate RW’s preferences of the type of man she hopes to marry.

It takes much courage for a RW to leave her familiar Russian life and move to a strange country with a strange language and culture and with no immediate means for supporting herself.  Basically the issue boils down to whether she is: 1) attracted to the man, 2) finds him interesting, and 3) trusts that he will support his family.  How many men with some sort of social issue/problem would meet all three of these criteria?       

The point of this thread, I suppose, is to not encourage men to think that RW are so desperate that they will fall in love with you regardless of your baggage.  Nevertheless, the BCIS does not discriminate other than for some basic income requirements.  Any man can give this a try and perhaps he will meet a woman that will think him acceptable if not desirable.   The questions remain of what is the likelihood of not wasting his money in the search and whether the marriage will endure.

[KenC]

We seem to spend a lot of time talking about who can't succeed with a RW in various threads. 

We often tell blacks, Asians and hispanics they can't.   Then they go out and find a nice RW.

We often tell the very young they can't but they do.

We tell those with average incomes they can't.  The only FSU woman AM who I have met in this area live on his disability income since he can't work and probably won't ever be able to.   I know a number of others who make under the average income happily married to an FSU woman.

Let's see, Mspankey says, drinkers and drug users.  Well, first off he could there are no shortage of those in the FSU so he could find a female counterpart and there are no shortage of non drinking women married to RM.  I am sure some would marry an AM who drank heavy.  Drinking is almost a proof of manliness there anyway.

There was people who don't talk.  Heck, half the women RW or AM once they have been married a while do most of their chatting with other women anyway.  Men only want to talk about sports, work and things like that.  They would much rather talk to another woman about some ache or pain or a friend who is cheating on their mate anyway.   That is not going to stop them. 

Ronnie,  Don't take this seriously but if someone came on here and posted in their introduction that he had given up his country club membership because his wife did not let him play golf often everyone would be telling him he had zero chance with a RW.   

I am not saying that every single adult male in America can find a wife in the FSU but there are a lot who can who we say can not. 

Turbo,
It is the same old debate with you.  Just because there may be an exception to every rule does not invalidate the rule.  Sometimes being the nice guy that you are, your advice misleads others into thinking they have a reasonable chance for success when they really do not.  This thread was not started as an effort to exclude anyone, but more so to protect those whom may not be best suited for this pursuit.  Maybe you should read some of Maxx's threads where the men you suggest "have a chance" end up with their lives destroyed by women who have taken advantage of their weaknesses.

I see threads like this as more of a service to those who might have difficulty in this process (like the recent thread regarding blacks)  What is so wrong with giving these men a "heads up" to what they may be up against in the fsu?  Why shouldn't we warn them?  I think that is much more humanitarian than to just lie and say everyone has an equal chance.  If they then want to buck the odds, then so be it.  But they should be warned that the odds are stacked against them.
KenC

[mspanky]

Jet nailed this earlier in the thread, yet I infer from your posts that you think even Jet’s characterization has a reasonable chance for success.  Yes, it is possible that almost any man can find a RW given the large number of RW listed with agencies.  However, is it reasonable?

None of the many RW whom I met seemed like the type who would be attracted to a man lacking in social skills.  Several spoke critically of western men who had preceded me.

I dated AW for a couple of years following my separation/divorce.  AW were plentiful if a man met two requirements: 

-  show up

-  act normal. 

So the men striking out with AW of their peer group are not normal in my opinion or do not know how to show up. 
      

The point of this thread, I suppose, is to not encourage men to think that RW are so desperate that they will fall in love with you regardless of your baggage. 

  If you're socially retarded you may find a desperate RW willing to marry you. Anything can happen, but I doubt it'll be true love. Key to any good relationship is communication,respect and self value. Desperation,lack of social skills,lack of self respect and value,lack of manners,drug addiction or addiction of any kind along with loads of baggage rarely ends with success.

[Misha]

I have to admit that I fall under the shy category. Over the years, I have grown to manage my shyness at work and in most social spheres, but dating was harder. I am not the kind of guy who can approach a woman in a supermarket, flirt with her and then ask her out on a date. For me, online dating was a godsend. It allowed me to find women who were looking and ask them out on a date in a way that managed my social anxiety.

Why Russia versus Canada? It was simply a question of numbers. In the small city where I live dominated by mills, single and educated women tend to move away. I did Lavalife and Plentyoffish and found few women with a much greater ratio of men-to-women dating. There were at best a couple dozen women on the sites, and it was difficult to arrange first dates, even when you did hit it off online. I did date a handful of women in a year, seduced a couple, but did not find any compatible matches. Quite often I was not attracted to them. Having done that in my first marriage, I decided not to settle. There was one woman that I like, but she had become a serial dater: she loved first-dates from what I gathered. In my experience, attractive and eligible Canadian women in my city did not really use online dating sites and eligible women who really wanted to find a man did not stay eligible for long.

I even went to an expensive matchmaking agency in my city. I gave them my criteria: attractive, educated and younger than 35. She looked at me and said there is one woman who would fit my criteria. She then went to find her file, sighed and said that she had already found someone. After that, she did not even try to convince me to sign-up with her agency.

Russia was very different. The numbers of women on free Russian dating sites are phenomenal. Even a small Russian city with have hundreds (or thousands) of women with active profiles online. You don't find the same social stigma attached to dating sites as you do in Canada. Russian women, in my experience, were also much more likely to quickly agree to meet a guy on a simple date to check him out. These two factors made it possible for me to meet a large number of women. The simple fact of the matter is that the more women you meet, the more likely you will find the one for you (the same is true for women). I stopped dating when I met my wife. We hit it off immediately and we spent six hours on our first date simply talking. However, if my wife and I had not hit it off, I would simply have lined up another date the next day or the day after. The number of women on the free dating sites, my knowledge of Russian, the ease of getting a woman to agree to meet for at least a coffee, made dating in Russia so much more easier than dating in my small Canadian city. When you meet large numbers of women, eventually you will find one who is compatible.

The simple fact of the matter is that I easily succeeded in Russia finding a beautiful, educated woman with no children who fell for me, something that I did not manage to do in my home city. Perhaps if I had been willing to continue dating for a few years in Canada I would have found someone. Perhaps if I had been a bit less shy it would have made things easier. Perhaps if I had found a job in another city in a few years, I would have been in a city with more eligible women.

Was I lacking in social skills? Well, there are different types of social skills. Yes, I will be the first to admit that I am not the outgoing social butterfly who can easily flirt with any woman. That made dating harder. However, once married, this is no longer a liability. My wife wants a man who will be there for her, and not a "бабник" (a "womanizer"), who has refined social skills but low commitment to one woman. It takes me a while to open up, but when I do I often cannot stop talking. Again, not a good trait for making a great first impression on a first date, but wonderful for a marriage.

Am I man enough for a Russian woman? Well, it depends on which Russian woman. I am man enough for the Russian woman who is my wife, and that is good enough for me  

[KenC]

Misha,
You may have lacked the ability to pick up strange women, but you also have many positive traits too.  You knew what you wanted and you took steps to find the woman of your dreams.  It takes a real man to identify his own shortcomings and to overcome them.  Kudos to you Sir!
KenC
 

[Jet]

Misha,
I don't think that being shy precludes one from being an "adventurer". As Ken said, you were smart enough to take stock in yourself, identify the issues that were giving you difficulty, and employ resourcefulness in finding a "work-around". That is far from the "socially retarded" behavior that Gator spoke of. Two things I think are critically important in this endeavor are self reliance, and the "adventurer" type personality, and they go hand in hand. You obviously possess that, in spite of your shyness. I really don't believe that the "Alpha males" have the market cornered. 

[Misha]

Thank you Ken and Jet. It is important to be objective and analyze one's success (or lack of success) when dating. You have to recognize your weak points and your strong points and understand what are the problems you will face when dating. The challenge is knowing where you can improve and figuring out what works best for you. Fortunately, you don't have to please all women, just one and the challenge is to meet enough women to find the one that you can please and who will please you.

[Gator]

Two things I think are critically important in this endeavor are self reliance, and the "adventurer" type personality, and they go hand in hand.....I really don't believe that the "Alpha males" have the market cornered. 

Agree 100%.  In fact RW are attracted to men with this attitude, because RW who would consider moving to a foreign land are also self-reliant and adventurous.  They are not dull, boring women.

You have to recognize your weak points and your strong points and understand what are the problems you will face when dating.

That attitude separates you from those men who find 100% of the fault in AW and none in themselves.

[vwrw]

Am I man enough for a Russian woman? Well, it depends on which Russian woman.

Good point, Misha!

    
The point of this thread, I suppose, is to not encourage men to think that RW are so desperate that they will fall in love with you regardless of your baggage. 

It does not seem to me that the above mentioned is the point of this thread. In my opinion, this thread is an attempt to reinforce the claim, that only strong, smart, stunning and charming men may woo heart of FSUwomen; to reinforce it independently from validity of the claim and to make the claim to be a strong belief through repeated assertion.
 In a consequence use the fabricated belief as a confirmation that married RWD’s members are superior ones.

[Misha]

That attitude separates you from those men who find 100% of the fault in AW and none in themselves.

That is why I never complain about Canadian women. I met a lot of wonderful Canadian women, many of whom I would have married in a heartbeat. Either they were married while I was single, or I was married when they were single, or they were looking for something else, or I was not at the right stage in my life to be with them when were were both single.

[KenC]

In my opinion, this thread is an attempt to reinforce the claim, that only strong, smart, stunning and charming men may woo heart of FSUwomen; to reinforce it independently from validity of the claim and to make the claim to be a strong belief through repeated assertion.
 In a consequence use the fabricated belief as a confirmation that married RWD’s members are superior ones.

Sorry that you have such a negative outlook on the motivation behind this thread.  You could not be futher from the truth however.  As I already stated:

I see threads like this as more of a service to those who might have difficulty in this process (like the recent thread regarding blacks)  What is so wrong with giving these men a "heads up" to what they may be up against in the fsu?  Why shouldn't we warn them?  I think that is much more humanitarian than to just lie and say everyone has an equal chance.  If they then want to buck the odds, then so be it.  But they should be warned that the odds are stacked against them.
KenC

[Gator]

In my opinion, this thread is an attempt to reinforce the claim, that only strong, smart, stunning and charming men may woo heart of FSUwomen....

Of all AM that I know, I would say that only a few have what it takes to be successful with RW.  What are the reasons why most would not undertake this venture or would drop out after starting?

-  They are not patient enough to mentor a RW while adjusting to America.

-  They would not respect the cultural differences and would expect her to behave like an American.

-  They are not adventurous enough to undertake the trip.

-  They are contented with their choice of AW.

-  They do not have the free cash necessary to woo and wed a RW, much less support her RW during her adjustment.

-  They are "committed" men - committed that no relationship will go very far.

-  They are too set in their ways to adjust to a woman from a foreign culture.

-  etc.

VWRW, there is nothing "exclusive" about the club of OMBs.  Not their "stunning" good looks, their high intellect, the jingle in their pocket, their fascinating sense of humor, etc.

[KenC]

Gator,
Good post.

Discussions like the one we are having in this thread is not an attempt to exclude anyone from pursuing a RW.  It is more a comparason of what kind of men have been successful and those who have not.  That is what RWD is here for: to help guide men through this process.  To offer up as examples what our experiences have been.  I strongly oppose the idea that we are here to encourage everyone to seek a woman in the fsu as it is not a "one size fits all."
KenC

[Turboguy]

Turbo,
It is the same old debate with you.  Just because there may be an exception to every rule does not invalidate the rule.  Sometimes being the nice guy that you are, your advice misleads others into thinking they have a reasonable chance for success when they really do not.  KenC

Rule?  Since when are there any rules.  Just because one of us says something it does not make it a "rule"

My comments were not meant to encourage or discourage anyone.  I think one of the problems with this kind of discussion is that none of the comments are going to discourage anyone which means we all are just blowing hot air.

First place, people won't recognize themselves.   How many people are going to read this and think to themself, Oh, I am a social misfit so I had better give up my plans to go to the FSU.  If you passed out a small questionnaire on that plane that was mentioned earlier with three health questions.  1.  Do you have a history of heart problems?  2.  Do you have respiratory problems?  3.  Do you have severe BO?   Do you think those dudes are going to answer yes?

Second thing they don't care.  If to use an extreme example we had an 80 year old who dreamed of a 19 year old bride and we said.  Listen up you old geyser it ain't ever going to happen.  He would just say KenC is nuts.  I have my membership in A-Web and the 19 year olds are writing me like crazy and think I am hot.   No one is ever going to read this and say it is not for me. 

Let's look at another example.   Dan is about as fair and accommodating a guy as you could ever want to find.   He shows a lot of wisdom and patience in the way he runs RWD.   Would it be fair to say you would almost have to be a social misfit to get banned here.   I could go along with that.  Yet if you think of those that have been banned most have a RW they are living with, engaged to or married to. 

The last thing I will say is that I understand your topic was intended to help people avoid mistakes even though I think it will not deter a single person.  There have been some good and interesting thoughts come out in this thread.   I do also see the side of it that VWRW does that we are ranking people as those who can and can not do this and casting those who can as better people than those who can not.  I have seen lots of people succeed that are in the class of those who can not.  I don't think it is our place to judge people and I have always tried to look at all people as equal.  I don't look at a movie star, professional athlete, or very rich person as being better than an average person.  I don't look at Blacks or Asians or those with menial jobs as been less than the average person.  I know it is not your intention but it smacks of that and I do find it a bit distasteful.   Of course sometimes I just enjoy playing the devils advocate as well.   

[Jet]

Turbo, let's face it, there is only one criteria for pursuing a wife in the FSU and that is that one has access to enough disposable income to finance the search. Just because anyone CAN do it, really doesn't mean anyone SHOULD do it. There are those that head to the FSU that are doing a huge disservice to themselves, their penpals, their countrymen, international relations, and the human species as a whole. CAN they find mutual happiness with a woman from somewhere else across the globe? Maybe... but how much carnage are they going to leave in their wake and what's the statistical probability of success?

[Turboguy]

Jet, I can agree there are people who should not do it.   One guy on one of my EC tours was a discrace to American men.   The guy was the ugliest of ugly Americans who I have ever met overseas and even managed to end up in jail in Moscow one night.  Is anything we ever say here going to deter him, no of course not.

I have another friend who really would do himself a favor by hanging up his quest.  He keeps going back on AFA tour after AFA tour and throwing money in the hopes of catching a beauty queen.  If I told him to hang up the search all I would do was lose a friend.  He would be right back on the next tour. 

It is just a sad reality that we have to put up with the bad image all those plus the sex tourists and others create.  We have to deal with the adverse effect of sensationalized TV exposes about RW ending up being sex slaves.  We have to deal with lots of things that just are not going to change.   It is just part of the price of admission. 

[KenC]

Rule?  Since when are there any rules.  Just because one of us says something it does not make it a "rule"

  You cannot be so out of touch that you have never been exposed to this common saying.  The "rule" is what is typical.  No one is making guidelines here, only suggestions of what types of men might have a more difficult time than others.

My comments were not meant to encourage or discourage anyone.

 
Oh really?  Is that why you always give the opinion that anyone can do this?  No matter what their personal circumstances?
 

I think one of the problems with this kind of discussion is that none of the comments are going to discourage anyone which means we all are just blowing hot air.

Again, no one is trying to discourage anyone of anything.  We are just trying to be helpful and give an accurate account of what these men might face.

First place, people won't recognize themselves.   How many people are going to read this and think to themself, Oh, I am a social misfit so I had better give up my plans to go to the FSU.  If you passed out a small questionnaire on that plane that was mentioned earlier with three health questions.  1.  Do you have a history of heart problems?  2.  Do you have respiratory problems?  3.  Do you have severe BO?   Do you think those dudes are going to answer yes?

Second thing they don't care.  If to use an extreme example we had an 80 year old who dreamed of a 19 year old bride and we said.  Listen up you old geyser it ain't ever going to happen.  He would just say KenC is nuts.  I have my membership in A-Web and the 19 year olds are writing me like crazy and think I am hot.   No one is ever going to read this and say it is not for me. 

With such a dismal outlook on the ability of the this forum to help others, maybe you should leave?  I disagree with your outlook very strongly.

Let's look at another example.   Dan is about as fair and accommodating a guy as you could ever want to find.   He shows a lot of wisdom and patience in the way he runs RWD.   Would it be fair to say you would almost have to be a social misfit to get banned here.   I could go along with that.  Yet if you think of those that have been banned most have a RW they are living with, engaged to or married to.

  The small number of posters that have been banned compared to the overall membership kind of proves that this is not a significant problem.

The last thing I will say is that I understand your topic was intended to help people avoid mistakes even though I think it will not deter a single person.  There have been some good and interesting thoughts come out in this thread.   I do also see the side of it that VWRW does that we are ranking people as those who can and can not do this and casting those who can as better people than those who can not.  I have seen lots of people succeed that are in the class of those who can not.  I don't think it is our place to judge people and I have always tried to look at all people as equal.  I don't look at a movie star, professional athlete, or very rich person as being better than an average person.

I think you are as wrong as VWRW on this subject.  I have asked you some questions up thread that you refuse to address.
I see threads like this as more of a service to those who might have difficulty in this process (like the recent thread regarding blacks)  What is so wrong with giving these men a "heads up" to what they may be up against in the fsu?  Why shouldn't we warn them?  I think that is much more humanitarian than to just lie and say everyone has an equal chance.  If they then want to buck the odds, then so be it.  But they should be warned that the odds are stacked against them.

 

I don't look at Blacks or Asians or those with menial jobs as been less than the average person.  I know it is not your intention but it smacks of that and I do find it a bit distasteful.   Of course sometimes I just enjoy playing the devils advocate as well.   

What truly smacks of distastful is that you seemingly to be lumping Asians and Blacks with those who have menial jobs!  If I were Black or Asian, I would be highly insulted by your comment.
KenC

[LiveFromUkraine]

Great line Thomas!  Can I borrow it?

Use and abuse it Ronnie.   


Thanks,



Thomas