Russian Women Discussion

RWD Discussion Groups => Starting Out => Topic started by: japtats on January 15, 2021, 02:40:06 PM

Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: japtats on January 15, 2021, 02:40:06 PM
Note to self - do not engage with closed minded people who obviously know it all and everything about everyone else.

Bro it is her own words, and her friends who know how to fool certain (seems like majority) of western men. I repeated what you said, she is asking what is your top 5 ukrainian writers, as you are interested in literature. She is rolling her eyes at your responses hahaha

Liar, liar, pants on fire.
Same hot chicks are in Sweden and Norway. 
But you and I can't touch them because no economic advantage

Gf laughed and said 'yes'
Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: cameraguymn on January 15, 2021, 02:42:06 PM
You forgot Norway. Danish not so hot. I never got into Nordic literature.

I'm make decent dough - gotta look into those hot Kentucky back hills girls too - use my economic advantage. :)

Isn't the whole point of this forum for people who have a proclivity towards Slavic women and want to discuss them?

Liar, liar, pants on fire.
Same hot chicks are in Sweden and Norway. 
But you and I can't touch them because no economic advantage
Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: Boethius on January 15, 2021, 02:42:22 PM
I'm not going to Ukraine because it is a low income country. I am going to Ukraine/Russia because the women are hot, educated, smart and refine. I can't speak for everyone but I think many men are going there for those reason and not because they can exploit women. We see enough of this in the Philippines or Thailand where culture, cuisine are vastly different between the two people.

ROFL.  "educated" and "refined" are two adjectives I would not ascribe to Ukrainian women. 
Ukraine is filled with WM who are there as sex tourists.  The only difference between those WM, and the ones who go to the Philippines or Thailand is that in the former case, they prefer Caucasian women.

Bro it is her own words, and her friends who know how to fool certain (seems like majority) of western men. I repeated what you said, she is asking what is your top 5 ukrainian writers, as you are interested in literature. She is rolling her eyes at your responses hahaha

What are her top 5 Ukrainian writers?
Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: japtats on January 15, 2021, 02:46:25 PM

What are her top 5 Ukrainian writers?

Taras shevchenko
Lesya ukrainka
Ivan franco
Panteleymon kulish
mykola lysenko

Not sure what it all means, or why she even asked him.
Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: cameraguymn on January 15, 2021, 02:50:10 PM
The most brilliant writers for me are Chekhov, Gogol, Stanislavski, Bulgakov, and of course Tolstoy. Russian writers enjoy wider acclaim and there are fewer Ukrainian writers of note compared to the Russians but I prefer T. Shevchenko. Maybe Ukraine can claim Bulgakov too. I'm not into that regional battle. I'm here for love.

Bro it is her own words, and her friends who know how to fool certain (seems like majority) of western men. I repeated what you said, she is asking what is your top 5 ukrainian writers, as you are interested in literature. She is rolling her eyes at your responses hahaha

Gf laughed and said 'yes'
Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: japtats on January 15, 2021, 02:53:37 PM
The most brilliant writers for me are Chekhov, Gogol, Stanislavski, Bulgakov, and of course Tolstoy. Russian writers enjoy wider acclaim and there are fewer Ukrainian writers of note compared to the Russians but I prefer T. Shevchenko. Maybe Ukraine can claim Bulgakov too. I'm not into that regional battle. I'm here for love.

This is her response

'Gogol is Ukrainian writer
Only his last book were about Russian culture
He was born and raised in Poltavskiy district'
Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: Boethius on January 15, 2021, 02:55:25 PM
Taras shevchenko
Lesya ukrainka
Ivan franco
Panteleymon kulish
mykola lysenko

Not sure what it all means, or why she even asked him.

Shevchenko was a poet, not a writer.  Mykola Lysenko was a composer, not a writer.

My favourite Ukrainian writer is Gogol.  I like Franko, but his works are very tied to his times, and he certainly isn't in Gogol's league.

ETA - I disagree about Gogol and Ukrainian/Russian culture.  His themes are universal.  Only the backdrops change.

I prefer T. Shevchenko.
I've never seen a good translation of Shevchenko.  His later poetry, in particular, is complex and fascinating.  However, I think you have to read it in Ukrainian to truly understand Shevchenko's brilliance.
Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: japtats on January 15, 2021, 02:55:53 PM
Ask for me
Did he read Dostoyevsky "Poor people"
Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: cameraguymn on January 15, 2021, 02:58:22 PM
that in itself is a debate when there a genius like that. I do want to go to the Black Sea because of him.

This is her response

'Gogol is Ukrainian writer
Only his last book were about Russian culture
He was born and raised in Poltavskiy district'
Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: japtats on January 15, 2021, 03:00:32 PM

Shevchenko was a poet, not a writer.  Mykola Lysenko was a composer, not a writer.


My favourite Ukrainian writer is Gogol.  I like Franko, but his works are very tied to his times.

She said you are educated, she wanted me to spell one of the writers wrong, to see if anyone corrected her. I think she is doing it on purpose, seeing who can correct her and actually knows literature.
Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: Boethius on January 15, 2021, 03:02:07 PM
I doubt that.  Moreover, on spelling, you are dealing with transliterations in any event.
Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: Faux Pas on January 15, 2021, 03:05:08 PM
 :offtopic:
Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: japtats on January 15, 2021, 03:07:53 PM
I doubt that. 
She wanted me to switch a c and k over, and see who noticed. She said if he knows, he will know the name is incorrect.
Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: Davo on January 15, 2021, 03:10:22 PM
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Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: Boethius on January 15, 2021, 04:02:04 PM
i also believe that Western men are conditioned to be kinder more empathetic towards women in general compared to our Slavic counterparts. That is part of our normalized way - more democratic in decision making and yeah..a little less "manly" to say it in simple terms.


I disagree with this.  I think Western culture as a whole is more empathetic, thanks mostly to leftist "snowflakes" (I think this is a good thing).  The attitude toward women is different in the Slavic parts of the FSU, both good and bad.  In some ways, they are brutal, but in others, FSUM are much softer toward women.  I think the tendency for men to drink in that society is why women seek foreign men, particularly after age 30.  Before 30, I believe it's mostly about money/lifestyle.
Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: cameraguymn on January 15, 2021, 04:32:47 PM
I'm not sure we're really disagreeing. The drinking leads to bad behavior and how they treat women. And I do agree that drinking is a factor - along with cheating but men of all cultures cheat too.  I've actually never heard of FSUM men being softer toward women.  But that's just my experience and observation.  I'm curious if for many this is true...


I disagree with this.  I think Western culture as a whole is more empathetic, thanks mostly to leftist "snowflakes" (I think this is a good thing).  The attitude toward women is different in the Slavic parts of the FSU, both good and bad.  In some ways, they are brutal, but in others, FSUM are much softer toward women.  I think the tendency for men to drink in that society is why women seek foreign men, particularly after age 30.  Before 30, I believe it's mostly about money/lifestyle.
Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: Boethius on January 15, 2021, 07:40:20 PM
I have decades of experience with FSUM.  Of course UW are going to tell WM that UM are bad, just like WM tell UW that WW are bad.  I've experienced gallantry from FSUM that is dead among WM.  Even drunkards.
Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: 2tallbill on January 15, 2021, 08:08:36 PM
I have decades of experience with FSUM.  Of course UW are going to tell WM that UM
are bad, just like WM tell UW that WW are bad.  I've experienced gallantry from FSUM
that is dead among WM.  Even drunkards.

I sell a product, I never say anything bad about my competitors product even if
I know about deficiencies and/or problems.

Bill's mud analogy: In my opinion saying bad things about my competitors is just
slinging mud and it's impossible to sling mud without getting mud all over yourself.
I prefer to talk about how the products I represent and my expertise can create an
excellent solution for their wants and needs.

That way I've taken the high road and have no mud on me.

I've rarely had FSUW say to me that all or most Russian men are bad. I have rarely said
anything negative about Western women. I have said that the best American women are
already married to very happy American men and that there are many, many excellent
divorced FSU women, so why not go to the place that I can find so many excellent
women who want to get married.

In the West, there are a large contingent of attractive Western Women who like bad boys
and will always want to pursue them and try to fix them. They don't really care for the
good guys, they will always be more interested that type of man so I have avoided
them in my single life. Likewise, I avoid broken women. I have neither the time,
desire nor the psychological training to fix them.

There is no shortage of bad boys in the FSU. In my experience most women in the FSU
at the age I searched wanted anything to do with a bad boy.

When I was single, I have always been able to find women in the USA who were
interested in me with the exception of Western North Dakota during the oil boom.

Whatever, your situation look for the positive, proactive approach. The old adage
"You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar" works with women too.

Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: japtats on January 16, 2021, 03:54:27 AM

In the West, there are a large contingent of attractive Western Women who like bad boys
and will always want to pursue them and try to fix them. They don't really care for the
good guys, they will always be more interested that type of man so I have avoided
them in my single life.

Incel definition right there, blame women not yourself. Women in the West are going for men they are attracted to, question is what qualities do you and others lack that makes them not attracted to you. Let go of the entitlement, dig in deep, and you will find the answer


Davo

I said what you said (before you edited the post) regarding the woman you know/dating with $500k house, and $2500 a month. My gf said that is the same women she knwos wo runs an escort agency (i thought she was the escort), goes in dates with westerners charging $100 for interp, married to a western rich man, whilst f a local ukrainian guy who is poor but she likes him. She will do anything to supply her kid with more, there is always more needed.

Also i told her of the woman who grabbed your arm and cried when shopping, saying she was so lonely waiting for a man like you. My girlfriend said you may have hgh estrogen levels, and it is a manipulation technique (this girl is deep in psychology and wants to do a masters). SHe said they do it to create a memoerable memory, so you replay it constantly in your head and remember the woman. I came across such women, pick up a random flower and tell me 'look at this, so pretty', and put it on their hair, it is cringe, my girlfriend even cringed at the story you told me. She said she never would do such a thing , because it is fake, also i believe she knows i am too smart for such stupid techniques

I dodge these women, as i found deep down, they are big manipulators. FSUW despite what you and others think, don't need saving, they are not as fragile as you think. I can go on about what my girlfriend told me, but like you did before, you will call her a narcist and advice me to dump my girlfriend who i didn't find on a foreign dating site, of women actively pursuing foreign men, and is happy to reside with my in Ukraine.


My girlfriend has a wide variety of friends, some virgins, some like i described. YOu want to listen to people selling something to you, or have been brainwashed. Truth is countless men have been dumped, faux 15 friends are now all divorced to FSUW (western society is 50% divorce rate). Fool for cheap tricks, and you will be the next guy.

also regarding your last marriage to FSUW, i doubt the issue was the 11 year age difference. I have had that age difference, my girlfriends showed my photos to all their friends, i mean why wouldn't they? Muscular, bearded tattooed man. Issue is what are you offering, and making sure the woman wants you and not the escape
Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: Davo on January 16, 2021, 06:36:06 AM
Japs, Itís a big stretch of the imagination to compare a madam of a whore house to a woman with multiple uni degrees, who holds a senior position in a company with 50,000 employees and regularly travels to other countries on business as she handles all the English speaking accounts world wide. Further more you couldnít find a woman more mortally opposite to a seedy brothel owner, when sheís a patron of an orphanage that regularly raises money, cooks for and teaches English to the children in her spare time.

Ask yourself this.... Is your GF treating you like a gullible fool to feed your narrative? She should know more than any of us being a local, how difficult it is for divorced older single mothers in FSU countries, even if you donít.

Again only a person who lacks empathy would call my story cringey and manipulative.... Or sheís so caught up in herself she canít see the social and cultural issues women face in her community. Itís not something that can be argued.... Itís just a sad fact. An older Russian woman on this forum explained what Iíve said stated perfectly recently. Letís hope your GF never finds herself in the same position in 15-20 years.

If it works out with her, I have no issues that itís because she loves me..... Mainly because when we first met and shared our financial situation she was in a far better position than me.

I spent some time chatting with another kind hearted 40 year old woman from Moscow 3 years ago as friends. She was another who had incredible empathy for others and would cry occasionally video chatting because it was nice to talk to a man (none had ever replied to her except me), even one who had no romantic intentions and would never meet. I told her in my first message that combined we have too many children for my house. She was just happy to talk to a man instead of her female friends and colleagues.

She owned a psychology clinic specialising in children. She would open her clinic on weekends and volunteer her time to help orphans too. She was such a selflessness woman that after her husband left her with two children under 10, she adopted young twins who visited her clinic. Ask your GF if she manipulating me too with her tears?

You and your GF should get out and talk to some older women in her community, listen to their stories ... thereís some truely wonderful women out there without a mean or manipulative bone in their body.

Iím not sure how you got that Iíve married and divorced a fsu woman 11 years younger than me. I mentioned Iíd dated a local women 11 years younger after my divorce from another local woman.

I removed my original post due to the personal details.
Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: japtats on January 16, 2021, 06:47:04 AM
Japs, It’s a big stretch of the imagination to compare a madam of a whore house to a woman with multiple uni degrees

You stretched your imagination when you called my girlfriend a narcist because she wasn't buying what you were selling. We discussed this further, why do you think i am confident to allow her to join this forum? Stuff i told you lot, is stuff she knows already. Why i am in ukraine, is same reason i told her, i can trade my financial power and make dating easier. I just have a set of balls to admit it, and not skip around the line being insecure.

We also joked today, many of the guys here can't give western women what they want, because FSUW women want stability, western women want a guy who 'can make me cum motherxxxx' (lyrics from a song)

She did say women which are 'shit because no fsum wants them' exist. She told me today she wouldn't tell you this, but she doesnt mind me passing the message, if she met you in pass she would tell you in a much softer tone. Some people can't handle things well, and need to be spoon fed, otherwise their world will probably get crushed.

You can waffle as much as you want what women have and do not have, but they are buying stability, and you are supplying stability, they just can't find it in ukrainian men so they go abroad, but those men do exist, either they want more money, or they are not good enough. EIther way, it is same point, money is what you are offering.

You and your GF should get out and talk to some older women in her community, listen to their stories ... there’s some truely wonderful women out there without a mean or manipulative bone in their body.


I dealt with mothers, they are sweet, but ruthless. I don't even want to say what happened, but they are very very dangerous, but sweet on the outside. It is as if they are two different people, in one body.
Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: Davo on January 16, 2021, 06:54:58 AM
Iíd be happy to discuss this topic openly on the forum with her, in fact challenge her to. Iíd like to know how a guy who lives 15,000 km understands whatís occurring in her community better than she does.

I can give her a quite a few contact details of 40+ women in Russia and the numbers of two of my close friends wives, if she wants to talk to the women sheís calling manipulative herself. She wonít because she knows they will call her a silly little girl with no life experience and has never walked a mile in their shoes.... especially my mates wives. Heaven help anyone that tries to tell them they married for money, lifestyle and not love.

I go to social events regularly with them and youíll never see two couples  more in love, even after ten years of marriage for one couple. Sheís very attractive and gave up a good life and job near Moscow to become a farmers wife... drive tractors, muster sheep and cattle and live in more isolation than most Siberians.... Thatís what you call love!!
Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 16, 2021, 08:18:40 AM
I think we're talking of very different lives here. Davo is talking about 40 yrs plus ex-Soviet women with a lot of life experience behind them and different times. Japs is talking about a lot younger women post Soviet break up who have a very different mindset and have not had the number of years life experience. The two are world's apart and I don't think either you or your other halves are wrong they are just two completely different societies that we're talking about here. I'm not saying there aren't any bad women who are 40 plus Soviet girls but I think on the whole they had a very different upbringing just as poor materially as many post Soviet girls but brought up with better values in dealing with that poverty. I think ex Soviet girls look to good character to get them through hard times whereas post Soviet girls look to street savvy behaviour to get them through hard times. I think that's the real issue you two guys have here is that you're comparing milk & butter and not realising you're talking about two almost entirely different things.
Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: ML on January 16, 2021, 08:22:43 AM

I go to social events regularly with them and youíll never see two couples  more in love, even after ten years of marriage for one couple. Sheís very attractive and gave up a good life and job near Moscow to become a farmers wife... drive tractors, muster sheep and cattle and live in more isolation than most Siberians.... Thatís what you call love!!

Davo, wife was nearby, so I read this to her.

She smiled and reminded me: "I gave up good job in capital city Kyiv with tons of friends and family.  Came here to USA.  Now maintaining very large garden and yard, helping cut down some dead trees, after husband cuts to firewood length some manual splitting, stacking firewood, hauling in firewood in winter, keeping wood burning furnace going, empty ashes, etc., etc.  All this with masters degree and finishing up PhD."

And all this to live with a guy stupid enough  to fall over the top of a 12 foot ladder reaching to cut off 'just one more' branch, breaking 9 ribs and clavicle.

Note: She really has used sledge and wedges to split some logs that were cut to firewood length.  Mostly I did that however, and then the past summer we obtained motor driven hydraulic splitter to split up and stack a couple of years worth of firewood.  This is now at her insistence as I would just as soon use the oil burner option on our dual source furnace.  Plus we have heat pump for milder winter days which she mostly refuses to use, preferring to burn small branches she has gathered up from fallen limbs.  We have a LOT of trees.
Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: japtats on January 16, 2021, 08:39:16 AM
I’d like to know how a guy who lives 15,000 km understands what’s occurring in her community better than she does.

There is the delusion, you know better than someone living there. Keep in mind her friends range from 20's to 40's, she has nothing to sell you.

I can give her a quite a few contact details of 40+ women in Russia and the numbers of two of my close friends wives, if she wants to talk to the women she’s calling manipulative herself. She won’t because she knows they will call her a silly little girl with no life experience and has never walked a mile in their shoes.... especially my mates wives. Heaven help anyone that tries to tell them they married for money, lifestyle and not love.

I looked past at your first jab at her , calling her a narcist telling me to run for the hills but your history doesn't give you much room to talk, luckily we have rules to protect you. If you continue calling her name's like silly little girl , I will rinse you for the truly pathetic specimen you are.


You are funny one sentence you are telling Trench how to play the financial game, what UK offers to attract women, next you are talking about farm lands, $500k apartments. Truth is women you go for is what she described, shit , nobody wanted them. What is hard to comprehend? They may or may not be manipulative, but nobody wants them, so they found you, hopefully this time you can keep one long enough. Or be another of Faux's statistics , 15 friends married FSUW, all divorced. You have one divorce, want to make it a double?

Don't be mad. No need to insult my girlfriend because you don't like the expired milk nobody wants to drink.


I know of a young russian guy, lost his legs, has no job,found a beautiful girl. But i am not giving up my day job or gym pass, you can looking for little outliers, make up stories, or be a big man, admit what you are doing, and just do it. Stop sugar coating stuff.
Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: japtats on January 16, 2021, 08:48:04 AM
Davo is talking about 40 yes plus ex-Soviet women with a lot of life experience behind them and different times.

Dangerous times, i am friends with my ex fiance's mother, she pushed my ex fiance to cheat on her boyfriend (This was after me). She would control everything behind the scenes, instagram pics, what to post and not to post, pics of me and her together on her instagram, a lovely woman, she was good to me, and still is good to me, saved me from a lot of medical issues i had in Ukraine. Very supportive of me still, great advice, but she would do anything to further her daughters prospects, bend and break any rule. She would call my ex fiance fat, with the smallest weight gain, imagine a 183cm at 50 something kg. But the mother was strong, heartless, strong, but was an amazing mother. Sacrificed so much to bring up the family without the father around, her strength is something i admire. Things she went through, and managed to accomplish bringup up 3 children, two daughters, who are each amazing.

Tattoo master i dated, she got a ruptured ovary, due to sex. We broke up, i said i would pay , as logn as my ex finished the tattoos (also pay hourly rate). Mother tried to push her to go to the police, but my girlfriend didn't want to (ex at the time). THe mother is lovely, she also helped me more than my girlfriend, even after everything, but like i said, these women are dangerous.

They are two different people in the same body, lovely and killers. I had a fall out with the tattoo masters mother one time, after the break up, she warned me what she would do if i ever messed with her. These old women can smile and in the next second cut your legs.

Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: Davo on January 16, 2021, 10:08:50 AM
There is the delusion, you know better than someone living there. Keep in mind her friends range from 20's to 40's, she has nothing to sell you.

I looked past at your first jab at her , calling her a narcist telling me to run for the hills but your history doesn't give you much room to talk, luckily we have rules to protect you. You are funny one sentence you are telling Trench how to play the financial game, what UK offers to attract women, next you are talking about farm lands, $500k apartments. Truth is women you go for is what she described, shit , nobody wanted them. What is hard to comprehend? They may or may not be manipulative, but nobody wants them, so they found you, hopefully this time you can keep one long enough. Or be another of Faux's statistics , 15 friends married FSUW, all divorced. You have one divorce, want to make it a double?

Don't be mad. No need to insult my girlfriend because you don't like the expired milk nobody wants to drink.


I know of a young russian guy, lost his legs, has no job,found a beautiful girl. But i am not giving up my day job or gym pass, you can looking for little outliers, make up stories, or be a big man, admit what you are doing, and just do it. Stop sugar coating stuff.

My advice to trench was being realistic. He wants children and would like a wife who stays at home and doesnít work. It doesnít matter if what country sheís from he needs to at least double his income and even then his wife will probably have to go out and work once the children are in school or his family wonít have the quality of life that most middle income families have... most have 2 incomes to get by.

You completely missed my point about a woman who lived a comfortable life in Ivanov Russia, before moving to a property on the edge of the Nullarbor. She didnít do it for the lifestyle or money.... google the Nullarbor and youíll see what Iím taking about. You have to truly love someone to live there.

Again you missed my point about expensive apartments. Not all FSU women have lower standard of living and income then us in western countries. Youíd be surprised how much many 40+ women are doing very well. All they are missing is a quality dating pool at home.

You can say what you want about the woman Iíve met, but the truth is in my country in my age group sheíd be at the top of the dating pool. How do I know this? After my divorce I went on went on 50+ first dates and had 8 short term and casual relationships over two years.... Believe me I know what shit is.

I call BS on the 15 friends who got divorced, if youíre taking about ďcloseĒ  friends who are living in western countries with a FSU wife and not random internet friends telling their horror stories. You know Russia keeps records of foreign marriages to their citizens (married in Russia) and the same for divorces, that arenít publicly available. Find a Russian friend who has the right contacts and youíll see a lower divorced rate than western marriages.

You can say what you like about my marriage, but I raised 4 children to be happy, healthy, exceed at school and 2 have moved onto uni. All the while isolating them from their mothers mental problems, alcoholism and serial cheating and double life she lead. I did it so successfully that they had absolutely no idea, until I kicked her out when she openly had an affair in front of their faces.

BTW Iíve lived and raised my children next door to a Russian couple while they raised theirs and 2 weeks ago my Daughter got engaged to a fine young man with a Russian father and Belarusian mother. Funny how their opinions align with the women Iíve chatted with and met in Russia.

You can argue as much as you want, but unless you or your GF have talked to many 40+ single Russian mothers from Rostov to Vladivostok, over 5 years on a daily basis youíre not going to change my mind. Most love their country and if it wasnít for social and cultural issues making them basically invisible to men, they wouldnít consider a foreign man.

So again if your GF is so sure sheís not just telling you what you want to here, Iíll happily discuss the ďshitĒ women Iíve met, even over the phone on a group call with a Russian woman, if sheís not comfortable chatting here. She wonít because she knows Iím correct and wonít want to look foolish in front of you.

As I said to Kim a while back, if you put some humour into your insults we can have some fun back and forth banter.... Our culture is based on that. We call mates c*%ts and c*%ts mate... mate!!  😜


Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: japtats on January 16, 2021, 10:54:01 AM
You completely missed my point about a woman who lived a comfortable life in Ivanov Russia, before moving to a property on the edge of the Nullarbor. She didn’t do it for the lifestyle or money.... google the Nullarbor and you’ll see what I’m taking about. You have to truly love someone to live there.

I dated someone in that city, living in a 8 bedroom house, her father had 3 stores in that city. She wanted the same, i had maybe £500 in my bank, no job, a business failed a month prior. At still each time i go sit with an fsuw and they ask me why ukraine, i say 'my income in fsu is considered better than the average guy'.

I am probably the only one on this on this forum that couchsurfed in Russia, and slept with his host, and had a short relationship with her. But still you lot lack the balls to admit what is the most 'attractive' you lot possess.


So again if your GF is so sure she’s not just telling you what you want to here

No she corrects me when she has a different opinion, such as i thought women with children were not wanted, she corrected me, she showed me friends who HAD BEAUTY AND A GOOD JOB, and found a guy, married, extended their family.

but the truth is in my country in my age group she’d be at the top of the dating pool. How do I know this? After my divorce I went on went on 50+ first dates and had 8 short term and casual relationships over two years.... Believe me I know what shit is.
50+ DATES????? 8 relationships and some casuals? in 2 years? That is a real big accomplishment (Sarcasm).

I call BS on the 15 friends who got divorced,

Calling BS on Faux, why would he lie? There is your problem, you selectively believe what you want to believe, that supports your fairy tale you built in your head.



You can argue as much as you want, but unless you or your GF have talked to many 40+ single Russian mothers from Rostov to Vladivostok, over 5 years on a daily basis you’re not going to change my mind.

Like i, and she said, if these women cannot find suitors because they are too undesirable, compared to the local women, then yes, But average Ukrainian/Russian woman can be compared to the Average Western women. It is just we have money that beats the local guys.

I challenge you to stay off foreign dating sites, if your balls are big enough, you can come to FSU, join a normal dating site like tinder, badoo etc, find a local woman, and see what happens when you minus the women actively looking to jump countries.
Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: Davo on January 16, 2021, 11:02:40 AM
Jap read my edit at the bottom of my post.... this is getting boring AF ... at least insult my mother or say something witty 😉

Edit...  I will say to your last comment.... I donít need tinder like you or badoo or flex my muscles to pick up women in FSU countries. In Russia all I had to do is talk with my accent for a young woman to close her shop and take me out to lunch. At the supermarket on my own and looking lost a woman took my hand and walked me around to find what I wanted, then followed me down the street, before I told her Iím here visiting another woman. Has that happened to you??? If I actually tried and did cold approaches Iím sure I could have lined up dates daily, given what happened above.

You might think none of the women you are dating want to leave, but all of them are secretly hoping youíll take them away from their life in Ukraine. They have far less to stay for (Adult children, careers, elderly parents, property etc..) and much more opportunities in a western country than older women do.
Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 16, 2021, 11:07:57 AM
Dangerous times, i am friends with my ex fiance's mother, she pushed my ex fiance to cheat on her boyfriend (This was after me). She would control everything behind the scenes, instagram pics, what to post and not to post, pics of me and her together on her instagram, a lovely woman, she was good to me, and still is good to me, saved me from a lot of medical issues i had in Ukraine. Very supportive of me still, great advice, but she would do anything to further her daughters prospects, bend and break any rule. She would call my ex fiance fat, with the smallest weight gain, imagine a 183cm at 50 something kg. But the mother was strong, heartless, strong, but was an amazing mother. Sacrificed so much to bring up the family without the father around, her strength is something i admire. Things she went through, and managed to accomplish bringup up 3 children, two daughters, who are each amazing.

Tattoo master i dated, she got a ruptured ovary, due to sex. We broke up, i said i would pay , as logn as my ex finished the tattoos (also pay hourly rate). Mother tried to push her to go to the police, but my girlfriend didn't want to (ex at the time). THe mother is lovely, she also helped me more than my girlfriend, even after everything, but like i said, these women are dangerous.

They are two different people in the same body, lovely and killers. I had a fall out with the tattoo masters mother one time, after the break up, she warned me what she would do if i ever messed with her. These old women can smile and in the next second cut your legs.

Indeed, I wouldn't cross a post Soviet woman, doing so over her family is likely to be very bad news. Post Soviet women tend to be resilient as ML"s post above illustrates. As you know doubt know Soviet society was not about being weak and it had its own hard edges to it. Soviet history shows us how bad it could get yet I believe the collective/communist values still instilled a way of being of having to work together, shared virtues and a certain citizen to be, those that stepped out of line didn't fair well.

The mother who was pushing the daughter to cheat and controlling her Instagram I think is trying to do the best by her daughter. She is not acting well but her interest is not in acting well but doing the best by her daughter in the times in which they are living. Survival is a basic instinct of most and a good prospect is not to be passed over lightly. I think it's a case there of playing the game a bit little fiercely but like I said Soviet society was not about being pussies it had a hard edge when push cane to shove, when people felt they needed to act aggressively. Aside from that though I still think in terms of virtue they are more sound even if they are shrewd underneath.

Post Soviet girls are more into gameplay, at least Ukrainian girls are, possibly Russian girls also. I don't think they are as shrewd underneath as ex Soviet girls though as your example shows, it's her mother making moves for her daughter in the dating game making sure her daughter doesn't f*CK up. She wouldn't do that if she thought/knew her daughter knew her stuff, it's because her daughter although likely street wise isn't likely all that shrewd. Let's face it most young Ukrainian girls are stupid to rip a WM off for what amounts to a money off coupon. A shrewd woman would hold off and see what good a deal the guy may be. Some Ukrainian women learn that as they get older into their thirties some may not. Take the girl I was with, Kherson girl, for all she knew I might have been very wealthy or at least a way better deal than most local men, I paid for her to go on holiday with me to Cyprus and bought her nice clothes, etc. I bet you she hasn't been on holiday abroad in the three years since or necessarily likely to ever again unless she met another WM. Her social media tells me that nothing much outside of living in Kherson has happened for her since. She's not the only one though, after reading 'Odessa Dreams' a while back it appears a lot of young girls make the same mistake and get laughed at by locals who see that they passed over on the big prize of a comfortable life in the west to instead go for a quick one off fast buck with a guy or two. Kherson girl apparently lived in a concrete block apartment with her brother, his other half who she didn't get on with and their child and hated it, I don't doubt it, I think though manipulative that she was honest enough, but she passed over on me to make a quick one and is most probably still living in the same situation to this day.
Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: Davo on January 16, 2021, 11:24:54 AM
Davo, wife was nearby, so I read this to her.

She smiled and reminded me: "I gave up good job in capital city Kyiv with tons of friends and family.  Came here to USA.  Now maintaining very large garden and yard, helping cut down some dead trees, after husband cuts to firewood length some manual splitting, stacking firewood, hauling in firewood in winter, keeping wood burning furnace going, empty ashes, etc., etc.  All this with masters degree and finishing up PhD."

And all this to live with a guy stupid enough  to fall over the top of a 12 foot ladder reaching to cut off 'just one more' branch, breaking 9 ribs and clavicle.

Note: She really has used sledge and wedges to split some logs that were cut to firewood length.  Mostly I did that however, and then the past summer we obtained motor driven hydraulic splitter to split up and stack a couple of years worth of firewood.  This is now at her insistence as I would just as soon use the oil burner option on our dual source furnace.  Plus we have heat pump for milder winter days which she mostly refuses to use, preferring to burn small branches she has gathered up from fallen limbs.  We have a LOT of trees.

Nice to see she adopted a country lifestyle after coming from a complete different and probably more fast paced life in Ukraine. It give me hope, because I spend a time out in the country doing a lot of those things. Who ever I marry will have to enjoy both city and country life.

My mates wife struggled at first, coming from an office job in a large city to a remote property where the closest town had a population of just 14 people. My mate used to do regular trips back to the city when she got home sick. She missed the hustle and bustle of city life. Now sheís an out back girl and canít stand being away from the animals too long. Sheís hand raised lambs atm who were rejected by their mothers.
Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: 2tallbill on January 16, 2021, 12:20:49 PM
Post Soviet girls are more into gameplay

Your ability to over generalize based on a few anecdotal experiences
is becoming legendary.

I expect that the the lurkers/peanut gallery can figure that out without
Moby writing 20 pages to rub your nose in it.



Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 16, 2021, 12:54:25 PM

Tattoo master i dated, she got a ruptured ovary, due to sex. We broke up, i said i would pay , as logn as my ex finished the tattoos (also pay hourly rate). Mother tried to push her to go to the police, but my girlfriend didn't want to (ex at the time).

The Mother may have been bullsh*tting here as the way I here it the Police out there don't care much for stuff that goes on in people's relationship as they see it as generally between those involved.
Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: I/O on January 16, 2021, 12:55:45 PM
I expect that the the lurkers/peanut gallery can figure that out
I haven't read all posts in detail - becoming yawnworthy to be honest.

The summary seems to be that Jap is arguing the only tool a WM has in his favour is financial while others argue their main tool is that FSUW are tired of poor available choices locally, especially those women plus 30 odd or with kids.

Among the endless heaps of BS, there's an element of truth in both arguments - it's a case of "Caveat Emptor" (SP?).
Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: Davo on January 16, 2021, 01:50:43 PM

I expect that the the lurkers/peanut gallery can figure that out without
Moby writing 20 pages to rub your nose in it.

Well this peanut is out of here. Donít really have the time to be sitting up all night engaging in pointless arguments.

Heard a young couple had their flights from the uk to home cancelled yesterday due to further restrictions on numbers returning. They were booked in October at a reasonable price and If they accept the refund and rebook itís going to cost them $36,000 aud. At this pace we will still be bringing  back covid infected people well into the latter part of the year. I canít see anyone flying out this year. I think Iíll just forget the FSUW thing for the time being.
Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: Davo on January 16, 2021, 02:12:16 PM


there's an element of truth in both arguments - it's a case of "Caveat Emptor" (SP?).


You are correct I/O.... My only real argument was you canít make make the general statement that all women put a comfortable western lifestyle as their main goal above genuine love. You only need to read the FSU womenís only forums to see that thatís not true in a lot of cases.
Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: 2tallbill on January 16, 2021, 02:22:37 PM
I haven't read all posts in detail - becoming yawnworthy to be honest.

The summary seems to be that Jap is arguing the only tool a WM has in his favour is financial while others argue their main tool is that FSUW are tired of poor available choices locally, especially those women plus 30 odd or with kids.

Among the endless heaps of BS, there's an element of truth in both arguments - it's a case of "Caveat Emptor" (SP?).

The Topic of the thread is What planted the seed in your mind to consider FSUW??
And where are you now? Jap and Trench couldn't be more off topic if they tried
to discuss aluminum siding, hair gel and farting in chlorinated pools. 

I somehow allowed myself to get sucked in.

Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: Davo on January 16, 2021, 02:24:04 PM
The Topic of the thread is What planted the seed in your mind to consider FSUW??
And where are you now? Jap and Trench couldn't be more off topic if they tried
to discuss aluminum siding, hair gel and farting in chlorinated pools. 

I somehow allowed myself to get sucked in.

Hey I take some blame too Bill.
Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: 2tallbill on January 16, 2021, 02:27:22 PM
Hey I take some blame too Bill.

No worries, threads tend to unravel over time. With Trench it can happen
on post number two.
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: 2tallbill on January 16, 2021, 04:02:12 PM
Incel definition right there, blame women not yourself. Women in the West are going for men they are attracted to, question is what qualities do you and others lack that makes them not attracted to you. Let go of the entitlement, dig in deep, and you will find the answer

Do you know how to read? There are women who go after men on death row. 
Am I over entitled because I don't go for that type? Midgets, little people. I
don't go for them either, I have nothing against them they just aren't for
me. Is that an incel definition blaming the girl?

I am married, I don't pursue ANY women because, I am MARRIED.

When you stop pursuing 18 year old girls without fully formed brains
you will be old enough to to give advice to twenty year olds. When
you start dating 40 year olds then you can start giving advice to
30 somethings.

You have no experience and no credibility.

Udachi!
Bill
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: japtats on January 16, 2021, 04:29:32 PM

The summary seems to be that Jap is arguing the only tool a WM has in his favour is financial while others argue their main tool is that FSUW are tired of poor available choices locally, especially those women plus 30 odd or with kids.

Among the endless heaps of BS, there's an element of truth in both arguments - it's a case of "Caveat Emptor" (SP?).

I said main, i mention other qualities , but people are ignoring the financial gain quality.
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: japtats on January 16, 2021, 04:34:29 PM
Do you know how to read? There are women who go after men on death row. 
Am I over entitled because I don't go for that type? Midgets, little people. I
don't go for them either, I have nothing against them they just aren't for
me. Is that an incel definition blaming the girl?


You are saying women go for bad boys, not the vast majority. They just go for something hard for a lot of men to be. I hanged out with male friends who bashed women, calling them shallow. I tenderly reminded them of a simpel fact, they could grow. They didn't want to, instead i did what it took to grow.


When you stop pursuing 18 year old girls without fully formed brains
you will be old enough to to give advice to twenty year olds.

My girlfriend is 24? I mean, difference is the women i go for, have something called options?
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: 2tallbill on January 16, 2021, 06:18:03 PM

You are saying women go for bad boys, not the vast majority. They just go for something hard for a lot of men to be. I hanged out with male friends who bashed women, calling them shallow. I tenderly reminded them of a simpel fact, they could grow. They didn't want to, instead i did what it took to grow.

My girlfriend is 24? I mean, difference is the women i go for, have something called options?

Your passive aggressive posting is becoming tiresome.

I am married and not looking for the same things as you.
You are too young and inexperienced to relate to the same
things as me and certainly your posts have nearly nothing
worth wasting my time on.

Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: japtats on January 16, 2021, 06:49:36 PM
Your passive aggressive posting is becoming tiresome.

I just pointed out what you said regarding women going for bad guys in western society, is same stuff MGTOW and Incel community preaches. It is ludicrous to believe majority of women are going for bad guys. They are going for men of value, i never came across a man of value (not people hiding behind screens), that preached that. They just became the man of value.

Regarding passive aggressiveness, i agree. My girlfriend said today if i feel i am different from others, she later explained i am direct, sometimes too direct. I tend to not sugar coat stuff, not really my style. Maybe for you and others sugar coating is needed.
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: Davo on January 16, 2021, 07:33:02 PM
Japs Iíll bury the hatchet and we can amicably agree to disagree regarding the comments above.

Us older guys can appreciate your conquests with younger women Iím happy to hear them, but maybe lay off the digs about us having less ability to pleasure a woman in bed and being able to bring her to orgasm. You wonít believe me now in your mid 30ís but the best sex of your life is still a good 5-10 years away and your ability to bring a woman to orgasm is too. As your testosterone levels drop in your 40ís youíre ability to last longer in bed rises a lot. Combine that with the fact that a lot of women find it easier to have multiple orgasms and more intensely in their early to mid 40ís, you have the recipe for some epic marathon sessions with a woman whoís enjoying sex a lot more than she did in her 20ís and 30ís and believe me they arenít shy to let you know either. If youíre physical fit those all night sessions no longer require a gut full of alcohol and a pre date wank.... well most of the time 😉
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: ML on January 16, 2021, 08:24:00 PM
Japs Iíll bury the hatchet and we can amicably agree to disagree regarding the comments above.

Us older guys can appreciate your conquests with younger women Iím happy to hear them, but maybe lay off the digs about us having less ability to pleasure a woman in bed and being able to bring her to orgasm. You wonít believe me now in your mid 30ís but the best sex of your life is still a good 5-10 years away and your ability to bring a woman to orgasm is too. As your testosterone levels drop in your 40ís youíre ability to last longer in bed rises a lot. Combine that with the fact that a lot of women find it easier to have multiple orgasms and more intensely in their early to mid 40ís, you have the recipe for some epic marathon sessions with a woman whoís enjoying sex a lot more than she did in her 20ís and 30ís and believe me they arenít shy to let you know either. If youíre physical fit those all night sessions no longer require a gut full of alcohol and a pre date wank.... well most of the time 😉

I agree Davo.
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: I/O on January 17, 2021, 02:17:40 AM
TBH, the whole "I can give her.." or "I can make her...." Could be slightly amusing if not so distasteful.

Frankly, most women of some class who know their own bodies well enough to obtain the maximum satisfaction from a bedroom interlude, particularly FSUW, would be more than a little turned off reading these threads.

The others would laugh - I can't recall the Russian saying but it rather mirrors our "an empty drum makes the loudest noise"....

Just FWIW.
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: japtats on January 17, 2021, 06:37:44 AM
Japs I’ll bury the hatchet and we can amicably agree to disagree regarding the comments above.

Us older guys can appreciate your conquests with younger women I’m happy to hear them, but maybe lay off the digs about us having less ability to pleasure a woman in bed and being able to bring her to orgasm. You won’t believe me now in your mid 30’s but the best sex of your life is still a good 5-10 years away and your ability to bring a woman to orgasm is too. As your testosterone levels drop in your 40’s you’re ability to last longer in bed rises a lot. Combine that with the fact that a lot of women find it easier to have multiple orgasms and more intensely in their early to mid 40’s, you have the recipe for some epic marathon sessions with a woman who’s enjoying sex a lot more than she did in her 20’s and 30’s and believe me they aren’t shy to let you know either. If you’re physical fit those all night sessions no longer require a gut full of alcohol and a pre date wank.... well most of the time

I never said you lot cannot perform, I listed attributes such as income, looking good (I didn't specify muscles), and not busting a nut in 10mins under.

You took that as an insult to yourself regarding lack of muscle and busting a nut under 10mins, but amusingly the income doesn't hurt you. Maybe you feel comfortable with your income and not the other attributes?

I repeat I never said you guys cannot perform, but if someone says something and it hurts you when not directed to you, there must be something deep down inside with truth.

If you go back , it is actually you more older gentlemen that were boasting at your skills acquired years back. I am not going to open up people's pasts (unless they take a deep jab).

And you still don't understand good sex , the best sex is emotional sex , when sometimes it is slow paced and with someone you care about. Sometimes I don't even need to orgasm for me to feel that it is good , it is the mental stimulation and closeness that makes it good . I am a switch between dominance and emotions . Sometimes I scroll through WhatsApp , see a contact who I forgot I slept with , physically it was good , but there was no emotions.

This is coming from a guy who carries BDSM equipment whenever he travels 
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: GenMish on January 17, 2021, 07:57:48 AM
LOL
This thread is really OT
Every guy is different, some peak in their 20's some 30s some 40s. Heck I knew one silver haired fox, that was still going strong in his 70s with much younger women (he had that white powder stuff)
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: japtats on January 17, 2021, 08:06:55 AM
LOL
This thread is really OT
Every guy is different, some peak in their 20's some 30s some 40s. Heck I knew one silver haired fox, that was still going strong in his 70s with much younger women (he had that white powder stuff)

Exactly , i forgot to mention the peak thing. I remember 7 years back on here, guys told me how my future would play out, how i will go downhill etc. But they were wrong at all levels. It is about the mindset and the willingness to improve. Sure if you are going to approach old age with your hands in your pockets, reading countless articles on stuff that have no effect on your actual life, then you will have a very different life. You can tell most people are in the hands in the pockets mindset, they have good salary, but there is nothing else about them. They are one dimensional , same with guys in the gym who focus solely on fitness.

There are men who are multifunctional, look good, physically fit, make a good living, they will blow one dimensional guys out the water.

Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: ML on January 17, 2021, 08:42:54 AM
Hey, nothing wrong with a sex thread.
However, it is not much useful if only filled with generalizations.

But I will add some without really detailed specifics.

As I mentioned elsewhere, my AW was almost asexual.
We had fairly regular sex for many years and she did have the standard pleasures.
But it was all fairly vanilla stuff and her willingness to participate decreased dramatically over the years.

However, when I got into sex with FSUW, my sex life expanded dramatically.
(Note: This probably would have happened with AW also, so nothing special about FSUW)

With the FSUW, I was able to experiment with almost any technique and they even suggested to me some items.  Not that this would be the case with all FSUW, but a 'natural selection' had occurred that led us together transpired.

And, I found many who had that magical ability to have unlimited multiple orgasms.  Quite a fascinating event for men who are willing to help the woman achieve such.
(My AW thought that it was impossible to have such, had no interest in such, and probably illegal to have such).

When I first told each FSUW of my high interest in frequent sex, they mostly responded: What is the problem with that?  What a relief.

Then, I also encountered those who said they wanted to have sex at least twice a day, every day.
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: GenMish on January 17, 2021, 12:44:03 PM
I follow along with ML, because it was the reverse with me.

Im sure I peaked in my 20s. I split the time between two live in gfs with high sex drives. The first was bat sh!t crazy, the second was a total freak. At 30, I figured it was time for a wife and thats when I went to Russia. Sex was NOT high on my list, trust and quality character were tops. Yeah I needed looks, and reliable sex (daily) but boring marital was fine  and came without all the drama I had with my AW gfs. Its like they thrived on drama, to make sex better.



My Russian wife asked after a few months if she was performing well in that area, and was willing to do anything else I wanted. I said its all going well ( mistake- there were a few things I should have added then, cuz you can add them in later years) You want disappointment? The kids were out for the night, and I did something off script. She went along with it, I thought she loved it. Im thinking to myself 'We are going to this every night!!. ' After we were done, she gets up, looks at me and says "I sure hope you are happy' and stomps off to the shower. Never tried that again

Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: LAman on January 17, 2021, 02:18:43 PM
Sooooo... a thread in Starting Out with a topic of "Off Topic Offshoot" ( whatever that means) is about your sex habits???
I am sure this will increase membership!!!
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 17, 2021, 03:46:02 PM
Ah, the members :D
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: Boethius on January 17, 2021, 03:52:10 PM
Sooooo... a thread in Starting Out with a topic of "Off Topic Offshoot" ( whatever that means) is about your sex habits???
I am sure this will increase membership!!!

This didnít start as a sex thread. Did you read the entire thread?

Threads ďgoĒ where members post.
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: japtats on January 17, 2021, 03:53:13 PM
Im thinking to myself 'We are going to this every night!!. ' After we were done, she gets up, looks at me and says "I sure hope you are happy' and stomps off to the shower. Never tried that again

Women I been with in fsuw called me crazy, but they wanted more 😂 women here have good sex drives , but I haven't come across many that really came across the extremes
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: Boethius on January 17, 2021, 03:58:51 PM
She said you are educated, she wanted me to spell one of the writers wrong, to see if anyone corrected her. I think she is doing it on purpose, seeing who can correct her and actually knows literature.

Riiight. Franko is a direct transliteration, BTW. That doesnít mean ďFrancoĒ is wrong.

I wouldnít expect posters here to know Ukrainian writers, let alone to have read them, any more then Iíd expect your girlfriend to know Robertson Davies, Mordechai Richler, or Anna Burns.
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: japtats on January 17, 2021, 04:16:08 PM
Riiight. Franko is a direct transliteration, BTW. That doesn’t mean “Franco” is wrong.

I wouldn’t expect posters here to know Ukrainian writers, let alone to have read them, anymore then I’d expect your girlfriend to know Robertson Davies, Mordechai Richler,  or Anna Burns.
I asked her , she doesn't know Anna , others she does. She read a lot of books when younger, as that was her upbringing , to enrich herself with books. She went to an elite school . She is smart enough to understand quantum mechanics , astronomy and such without prior background in physics. She does a bit of data science . I think you got caught in her game she wanted to play , but instead she was trying to play with the others and test the others. That is why she asked the question , to see people's answers , the answer she gave you was a test , when she gave me the answer she smirked  she is sly
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: LAman on January 17, 2021, 05:33:01 PM
This didnít start as a sex thread. Did you read the entire thread?

Threads ďgoĒ where members post.


Doesn't matter where it starts, they all seem to go in a certain direction. Some love to speak of their exploits and dismiss any others.
Isn't 'Starting Out' open for all to read?
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: ML on January 17, 2021, 06:54:27 PM
. . . women here have good sex drives . . .

I doubt if different than women anywhere.

But in some cultures, the drive is likely suppressed.

One interesting feature relates to fact that a 2 or 3 room apartment in FSU might contain a grandparent, parents, younger married couple, and a child or two.

Now do you suppose the women or men will make any sounds during the sex or at the climax ?  Or often not even give much of a physical indication of the finish.

So sometimes takes some encouragement to modify that situation.

Some mentioned there was often more privacy in hallways than inside the apartment.

- - - -  -

Actually the same situation likely exists in China and India regarding multi-generations packed together.

Yet they keep churning out the kids.

Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: mhr7 on January 18, 2021, 12:03:25 AM
I wouldnít expect posters here to know Ukrainian writers, let alone to have read them, any more then Iíd expect your girlfriend to know Robertson Davies, Mordechai Richler, or Anna Burns.

Gogol is one of my favorites.
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: japtats on January 18, 2021, 09:23:00 AM
I doubt if different than women anywhere.

But in some cultures, the drive is likely suppressed.

One interesting feature relates to fact that a 2 or 3 room apartment in FSU might contain a grandparent, parents, younger married couple, and a child or two.

Now do you suppose the women or men will make any sounds during the sex or at the climax ?  Or often not even give much of a physical indication of the finish.

So sometimes takes some encouragement to modify that situation.

Some mentioned there was often more privacy in hallways than inside the apartment.

- - - -  -

Actually the same situation likely exists in China and India regarding multi-generations packed together.

Yet they keep churning out the kids.

I guess it is because for them it is normal , there is no alternative, for me having sex few times a day , in the bedroom and other places around the apartment is normal .

I wonder how the women I been with survived , they used to have sex once every week or two weeks . Guys would be staying with their parents, then I come along , look physically better than their ex's , and more put together . I don't blame them wanting my kids hahaha
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: GenMish on January 18, 2021, 10:05:25 AM
Riiight. Franko is a direct transliteration, BTW. That doesnít mean ďFrancoĒ is wrong.

I wouldnít expect posters here to know Ukrainian writers, let alone to have read them, any more then Iíd expect your girlfriend to know Robertson Davies, Mordechai Richler, or Anna Burns.

As an aside, for lurkers out there. FSUW bring lots of intellectual value to your relationship versus their AW counterparts. As an American, our schools provide little in this area. Its neat to bond sharing cultures, and interesting



OK  back to Sex, hallways??? lol ML
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: Boethius on January 18, 2021, 12:14:11 PM
I disagree about the unique "intellectual value" of FSUW.  The US consistently outperforms both Russia and Ukraine on PISA tests, although overall, American scores are nothing to write home about.  I think this is very much based on the individual.
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: ML on January 18, 2021, 02:09:12 PM
I disagree about the unique "intellectual value" of FSUW.  The US consistently outperforms both Russia and Ukraine on PISA tests, although overall, American scores are nothing to write home about.  I think this is very much based on the individual.

Yes Boe is right.

I have written here several times that men get wrong ideas regarding FSU folks as a whole because they (mostly) are interacting with a non-representative subset.

Just as a wild a$$ed guess, I would say that 90% of the women I met were in top 20% IQ wise for FSU population.  Plenty of 'nit-wits' left over.
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: I/O on January 18, 2021, 02:13:17 PM
I disagree about the unique "intellectual value" of FSUW
Agree 100%. If you're used to trailer trash then, maybe but on the whole, no.

That said, of course there are many very well educated and intelligent women available.
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: GenMish on January 18, 2021, 02:15:52 PM
I disagree about the unique "intellectual value" of FSUW.  The US consistently outperforms both Russia and Ukraine on PISA tests, although overall, American scores are nothing to write home about.  I think this is very much based on the individual.

Let me know when PISA controls for hot looks, because that was the demographic I was speaking too. Nobody is going to the FSU for an 'average'  girl. Good looking FSU women are far more intelligent that their American counterparts
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: Boethius on January 18, 2021, 02:44:33 PM
You don't know that as a fact.  That is your subjective opinion.


I went to law school, lots of gorgeous women in my class, in the two before me, and the two behind me.  My sister went to med school, lots of gorgeous girls in her class.  I can't imagine it's much different in the US.  Perhaps what was available to you was different.


I do think that FSUW present themselves better, always have.  They don't leave the house in unpressed clothing, let alone sloppy clothing such as sweatpants.  They also mostly polish their shoes, something that's a bit of a lost art in North America.
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: japtats on January 18, 2021, 02:58:16 PM
Stem exams at college level is harder in the fsu, I seen the exam papers
Title: Desire or hangup?
Post by: 2tallbill on January 18, 2021, 03:00:42 PM
I doubt if different than women anywhere.

But in some cultures, the drive is likely suppressed.

Exactly right imagine two women

Woman A is is told: 
1. If you have sex before you are married you will burn in hell
and you will be a filthy, slutty, tramp that no man will ever want
or desire.

2. If a man touches your poop place with his penis or finger then
you are an abomination it's just like having sex with farm animals!

3. If you have sex with more than one man outside of marriage you
will catch terrible diseases, your vag will smell like a sewer and no
man will ever desire you.

4. If your vag doesn't smell, look or be prepared properly you should be
super self conscious and buy products we sell on TV. No man will like you
if your vag is strange.

5. Your vag is F#ucking strange unless you spend lots of money to fix
and maintain it.
   
Woman B is is told: 
Having frequent sex is good for your health.


Which woman is more likely to have hangups?
Which woman is more likely to have a healthy sex drive?

Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: 2tallbill on January 18, 2021, 03:09:46 PM
I disagree about the unique "intellectual value" of FSUW. 

They have EVERY type in the FSU. They have smart girls, dumb girls,
funny girls and girls that crawl on rocks (sing it to the Armor hotdog jingle).

They have women who can bake up delectable treats and they have women
who use the smoke alarm for a cooking timer. They have Angels and devils,
they have women who are bat-sh!t cRaZy and they have woman who are
perfectly sane.

Anybody who starts generalizing about FSUW they are going to be wrong after
about 10-15 words, because they have all kinds.



Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: GenMish on January 18, 2021, 04:16:32 PM
Im sorry if I offended anyone

My point is, a guy can(could) go to the FSU and get a girl with both brains and beauty. Even as a 'good catch' in the USA, I couldnt get both no matter how much I tried. FSU was great for me, I didnt have to settle

Thats all
Title: Re: Desire or hangup?
Post by: ML on January 18, 2021, 05:31:40 PM
Exactly right imagine two women

Which woman is more likely to have hangups?
Which woman is more likely to have a healthy sex drive?

I give up . . . which one ?
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: ML on January 18, 2021, 05:37:11 PM
Im sorry if I offended anyone

My point is, a guy can(could) go to the FSU and get a girl with both brains and beauty. Even as a 'good catch' in the USA, I couldnt get both no matter how much I tried. FSU was great for me, I didnt have to settle

Thats all

OK, now you are right on . . . mainly because you are saying the same as I have said here many times before.

Western men can trade up in FSU because of economic advantage.

There can be a gal in USA who meets all your criteria . . . but who will not consider you.

You can go to FSU and find her exact twin who will spend time with you and probably marry you.

But never deny there exists the same fine woman in the west.
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: fathertime on January 18, 2021, 08:18:25 PM

Western men can trade up in FSU because of economic advantage.

There can be a gal in USA who meets all your criteria . . . but who will not consider you.

 
Many like to pretend to be studs, but the reality is much of the foreign bride scene is based on financial advantage.  Although my woman is from South America, the same applies there of course.   I've been with her for over 12 years and it is extremely unusual because she is a stunning goddess and I'm a wreck.  I realize this wasn't likely to happen unless finances were brought to the table EARLY ON.  Of course the way it lasts after the early phase is other attributes, but what gets us older gasbags in the door is financial advantage. 

Fathertime!
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: I/O on January 18, 2021, 11:07:31 PM
what gets us older gasbags in the door is financial advantage
I'm not sure I'm universally convinced but for the moment, I'll join this side of the debate.

Why then, if living standards are similar to the West and FSUW are living Western equivalent lifestyles as some are arguing, is there any remaining market and although diminished, there is no doubt, it's still there?
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: japtats on January 19, 2021, 12:27:39 AM
I'm not sure I'm universally convinced but for the moment, I'll join this side of the debate.

Why then, if living standards are similar to the West and FSUW are living Western equivalent lifestyles as some are arguing, is there any remaining market and although diminished, there is no doubt, it's still there?

THe market has dried u, also people struggle, and think going to the West will make it better. Thirdly money is more important in FSU. You can convince yourself it is financial comfort, or your viewpoints on politics that is attracting these women, but goes to the original statemnt which nobody has yet answered.

Why can the magic work only in countries with low incomes? Why out of the 'International Monetary Fund (IMF) identifies 39 "advanced economies". The OECD's 37 members are known as the "developed countries club". The World Bank identifies 81 "high income countries"', women are not lining up on these sites?
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: japtats on January 19, 2021, 12:29:45 AM
OK, now you are right on . . . mainly because you are saying the same as I have said here many times before.

Western men can trade up in FSU because of economic advantage.

There can be a gal in USA who meets all your criteria . . . but who will not consider you.

You can go to FSU and find her exact twin who will spend time with you and probably marry you.

But never deny there exists the same fine woman in the west.

Hardest pill for people to swallow, even grown men on their death beds will delude themselves to save ego
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: I/O on January 19, 2021, 03:05:08 AM
"high income countries"', women are not lining up on these sites?
Hmm, perhaps a glance at websites catering to USA, UK, AU, NZ and various European ladies might be worthwhile. I don't recall Tinder having its origins in Russia...🤔
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: fathertime on January 19, 2021, 05:55:10 AM
I'm not sure I'm universally convinced but for the moment, I'll join this side of the debate.

Why then, if living standards are similar to the West and FSUW are living Western equivalent lifestyles as some are arguing, is there any remaining market and although diminished, there is no doubt, it's still there?
0f course my earlier post isn't 100% universal, which is I used the term "Much of". 

In Colombia, the living standards are not at all what we can enjoy here in good old California.  If you have a certain level of wealth in Colombia, then perhaps the lifestyle can be even better than here though.... A very small percentage of the population has that kind of wealth though.   I won't speak for Ukraine or Russia, but perhaps that is the case there too. 
Overall, when you see a 50 something walking arm in arm with a 30 year old beauty queen, most of the time it isn't because he is worldly, distinguished, or a great conversationalist (Although he may be all of those things), it is  because of his financial prowess relatively speaking.  All that said, it can grow into something special and when it does the man has done very well for himself and going for a lady abroad is seen as a wise choice.
 
In the case of Japtats, my impression is he is young, works out, and covered in tattoos so his situation is much different than most of us greying, balding, slumped over gasbags from a different era. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: ML on January 19, 2021, 07:01:16 AM
  Of course the way it lasts after the early phase is other attributes, . . .

Yes, that's the key.  True affection and love can develop.
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: I/O on January 19, 2021, 10:35:44 AM
In Colombia, the living standards are not at all what we can enjoy here in good old California.  If you have a certain level of wealth in Colombia, then perhaps the lifestyle can be even better than here though.... A very small percentage of the population has that kind of wealth though.   I won't speak for Ukraine or Russia, but perhaps that is the case there too. 
Overall, when you see a 50 something walking arm in arm with a 30 year old beauty queen, most of the time it isn't because he is worldly, distinguished, or a great conversationalist (Although he may be all of those things), it is  because of his financial prowess relatively speaking.  All that said, it can grow into something special and when it does the man has done very well for himself and going for a lady abroad is seen as a wise choice
That's a pretty good assessment of things although things have improved a fair amount in Russia and some other FSU locations.

That said, and it was my point very early on, given the political systems in Russia and especially some other FSU states, economics, living standards and freedoms were not, are not and never will be on par with the West.

My Ol' lady and I have this debate more than occasionally and regardless of how much emotion she pours in, at the end of the day, even she concedes it is very different for many.
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: japtats on January 19, 2021, 10:50:56 AM
Hmm, perhaps a glance at websites catering to USA, UK, AU, NZ and various European ladies might be worthwhile. I don't recall Tinder having its origins in Russia...🤔

Tinder is finding someone nearby , not purposefully looking for people half way across the world
Title: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: 2tallbill on January 19, 2021, 11:21:13 AM
Many like to pretend to be studs, but the reality is much of the foreign bride scene is based on financial advantage.  Although my woman is from South America, the same applies there of course.   I've been with her for over 12 years and it is extremely unusual because she is a stunning goddess and I'm a wreck.  I realize this wasn't likely to happen unless finances were brought to the table EARLY ON.  Of course the way it lasts after the early phase is other attributes, but what gets us older gasbags in the door is financial advantage. 

Fathertime!


There are TWO factors in the FSU.

1. Financial: This includes income, security, safety, better
prospects for starting a business etc. 

2. Supply and demand: A 40 year old woman in the FSU has
virtually no prospects for marriage. If she has kids she has even
poorer expectations for marriage. The supply and demand factor
doesn't exist for younger women with no kids.

The first factor is true in all cases, the second factor is only true
with older women.

Women 35 years old and older is the sweet spot, because both
factors apply.

Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: Davo on January 19, 2021, 12:04:04 PM
Re menís financial advantage, I agree in some cases and maybe a lot of cases when it comes to younger women,  but the posts below could be anyone of 20 or so 40+ women iíve met online and in real life. Life isnít so hard for many now financially. There are some very motivated women who are determined to be successful financially after divorcing. They are just looking for a good man and will move to another country to and even a less secure financial situation for love and companionship.

There are lots of successful women with a great level of income, assets etc... and a quality of life compared to us in the west. I met one woman with a string of hairdressing / beauty salons making 6 figures US, who was willing to sell up for the right man.

On the other end of the scale, iíve met women who have struggled financially after divorce and are living at home with her parents and kids in a small apartment on below minimum wage.

Itís no different than dating anywhere else in the world. I found the same at home... financially secure women and then those living in a granny flat at their parents house who were looking for a man with a good income and a big house to move into with her kids.... I dumped her after two weeks.

I see my biggest advantage in the demographic iím searching in is women donít have a fraction of quality local men to chose from compared with a younger woman whoís never been divorced. Lots were dumped for younger women.

If youíre ur worried about a woman marrying you for your financial situation and not love, then donít marry a woman who in a lower financial situation. You could go online today and meet women who arenít, theyíre not rare by any means. It was the first thing that surprised me when I was first online.


 


Не могу ответить от имени всех женщин. Которые ищут своего мужчину в других странах. Могу сказать только про себя. Мой уровень жизни выше в России ,в Москве, чем у моего друга в маленькой деревне в Германии. У меня два высших образования, а у него только среднее-профессиональное образование. У меня есть недвижимая собственность в Москве, а мой друг снимает жильё. У меня один ребёнок от первого брака. У моего друга два маленьких ребёнка от первого брака. Я сделаю свой уровень жизни хуже- при переезде в другую страну. Не смогу работать по специальности сразу. У меня не будет дома в собственности. И у меня прибавится ответственности. Был один маленький ребёнок в жизни, станет три маленьких ребёнка в жизни.
Но это все не стоит на первом месте для меня. Я искала своего человека, своего мужчину. И он мне встретился. Я была одна со всеми своими достижениями и благами, а сейчас мы вместе. Мы вместе- это стоит на первом месте. Не одна я ищу своего мужчину. Много женщин из России и прочих славянских стран ищут своего мужчину, своего настоящего друга в жизни.

óóóóóóóóóóóóóó

Анастасия, согласна на все сто процентов! Многие мои знакомые даже не рассматривают брак с иностранцами по причине того, что их уровень жизни значительно ухудшится. Здесь хорошее образование, престижная работа, недвижимость в собственности. А что там - не всегда понятно. Подруга, например, совершенно не хочет уходить с огромной по российской меркам зарплаты в домохозяйки. Престиж же и в самореализации тоже. И это еще мы не затрагиваем детей мужчины, которых, чаще всего, не один. а два-четыре. И я, обычно, не соглашаюсь с мнениями мужчин. что женщинами при переезде движет меркантильная составляющая. Альтруизм тоже присутствует. Да еще какой! Оставляем работу и бизнес бросаем, и недвижимость передаем в чужие руки. и теряем дружеские и родственные связи. Да таким женщинам надо памятники при жизни ставить за наши силу, веру в будущее и стремление!

Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: GenMish on January 19, 2021, 03:17:39 PM
The way I am reading the last posts, there is a discussion between

Financial vs love and companionship

In my case, let me add a third., goals and lifestyle. we both wanted a family and a US suburban lifestyle. I know 'soccer moms' is looked down term, but many women want this. Soccer on Monday, swimming lessons on Tuesday, Piano on Wed, Dance and Ballet on Thursday, all in a fancy SUV. Soccer mom lifestyle would be TWICE the price in Russia if available at all. So much for the money stuff.

My gaffe, we moved up to Country club lifestyle, and she hated being a golf widow. If she loved me, she wouldnt have kicked me to the curb. So much for the love stuff.  IMO its common goals for lifestyle. And I will repeat, US men cant compete if they want a city lifestyle, 95% of our cities cant compete. I would rather live in Moscow or St Petersburg than almost all US cities
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: Davo on January 19, 2021, 03:40:06 PM
The way I am reading the last posts, there is a discussion between

Financial vs love and companionship



Pretty much.... It was a discussion with women from late 30ís to late 50ís on that subject and stereotypes. There was a really good reply about finding a man whoís in your league.... looks, interests, financially etc... too. Iíll see if I can find it.

Hereís another couple of posts from an older womanís point of view.

Да я не про вас даже, Анастасия. Да и не первое это обсуждение. Тема "меркантильность VS бескорыстность" поднимается регулярно, часто, и всегда вызывает бурный отклик. Потому что хотя вроде бы конкретных обвинений никто никому не выдвигает, но в глубине души каждой, кто относится к "славянкам" неприятно, что ее могут заподозрить в наличии каких-то иных мотивов, кроме как "поиски настоящей любви".
Пора бы нам избавиться от негативного отношения к обсуждаемому вопросу. Ничего плохого нет в том, чтобы подходить к вопросу брака практично (мне слово практичность нравится больше, чем меркантильность). Рыба ищет, где глубже, а человек, где лучше. Совершенно ествественно и в человеческой природе - стремиться к более комфортной, стабильной жизни. А комфорт и стабильность это гораздо большее, чем просто деньги, как нам пытается преподнести Татьяна из Слупска.

óóóóóóóóóó-

Мне кажется, Татьяна зесь на форуме, в открытой теме пытается сломать стереотип " меркантильной русской женщины" Что многие участницы и показали, что женщина , в большинстве случаев уезжает в страну мужчины не из меркантильных целей. Не жертвуя не чем. А уж кто хочет слышать, что русские, славянские женщины меркантильные, то он и будет именно таких и находить.Еще и рассказывать всем и составлять " мнение" И множество примеров о гармонии в отношениях, такому человеку бесполезно рассказывать. Вижу , в реальной жизни у нас две пары, когда муж иностранец, живут в Питере. 1 я пара молодая. Муж итальянец, большую часть времени проводит дома. Он постоянно со своими маленькими детьми. Забирает их из садика, гуляет с ними. По доброму смешно смотреть , как он берет своих троих детишек и идет с ними гулять. Жена большую часть времени проводит,видимо на работе. Все вместе гуляют вечером. Язык не повернется назвать этого парня " альфонсом" ,хотя он вроде как попадает под это определение. В паре гармония,и это главное. И мне кажется, им на мнение окружающих плевать. Вторая пара- мужчина иностранец, европеец, женщина русская. Пара уже в возрасте он и она, на пенсии. Понятно, что женщина не хотела здесь все бросать и мужчина переехал к ней. Очень милая пара. Он всегда к своей женщине с таким уважением относится, с такой нежностью. Постоянно их вижу, как они каждое утро сидят в кафе и разговаривают на английском. Им интересно вместе и это видно. Кто бы , что не говорил. Когда люди живут в гармонии друг с другом, все эти " мнения большинства" вообще не имеют никакого смысла. И почему в этой теме захотелось написать стих Автор Ирина Самарина " Есть люди "закаты и "люди-ęрассветыĽ








Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: japtats on January 19, 2021, 04:14:49 PM
If you’re ur worried about a woman marrying you for your financial situation and not love, then don’t marry a woman who in a lower financial situation. You could go online today and meet women who aren’t, they’re not rare by any means. It was the first thing that surprised me when I was first online.

You still know nothing about FSUW manipulation, many women i communicated tell me how well they have it, what their parents have . Heck i think a month ago i dumped a girl, she told me her father has a big business, brother is in texas as an IT manager, she dressed in expensive clothing, she was a high class girl. But also a Gold digger to a certain extent, I could tell, i dumped her after our first hook up, hence why she went ballistic to flex to me. Many women i came across said such thing, but it is no real shock, well off people, like more money. Not rocket science, but you like being fooled by women, and taking what they say too literally.
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: Davo on January 19, 2021, 05:04:17 PM
You still know nothing about FSUW manipulation, many women i communicated tell me how well they have it, what their parents have . Heck i think a month ago i dumped a girl, she told me her father has a big business, brother is in texas as an IT manager, she dressed in expensive clothing, she was a high class girl. But also a Gold digger to a certain extent, I could tell, i dumped her after our first hook up, hence why she went ballistic to flex to me. Many women i came across said such thing, but it is no real shock, well off people, like more money. Not rocket science, but you like being fooled by women, and taking what they say too literally.

Believe me I have far more experience being married to and dating manipulative women. After my divorce iíve had a one strike and I walk policy.

Iíve met enough guys here married to FSU women and two of my close friends to see there are good women out there. Thereís multiple men successfully married and divorced  men here who have an intimate knowledge of my relationship and infinitely more experience than you with FSU women. Apart from a few communication issues a while back, no one sees any red flags. She doesnít have a manipulative bone in her body and has a kind selfless soul. You only need to see how active she is in her community supporting the less fortunate, her relationship with her parents and children and the admiration her friends and colleagues have for her to see this.

Youíre in a country and a city with a notorious industry where young women taking advantage of western men like you.... You worry about yourself and iíll take care of my situation. If I want advice itís not going to be from a guy with less relationship experience than me. Iíll get my advice from men who are or have been in a relationship with women a generation before you have experience with. You have absolutely nothing to offer me.




Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: ML on January 19, 2021, 05:54:44 PM
You worry about yourself and iíll take care of my situation. If I want advice itís not going to be from a guy with less relationship experience than me. Iíll get my advice from men who are or have been in a relationship with women a generation before you have experience with. You have absolutely nothing to offer me.
Davo why are you holding back ?
Title: Re: Off Topic Offshoot
Post by: Davo on January 19, 2021, 06:05:06 PM
Davo why are you holding back ?

Lol, You know me. It takes 6 months hearing how a guys sleeping his way through the young women of Ukraine, before I tell him [deleted by Admin].... At least he’s a tad under 40 and not an old codger like my last mate.


Or I could just say what everyone is thinking.... We have this problem with our citizens in financially challenged south East Asia, we call them sex tourists and are despised in our community. Typically mid 30’s+ on holiday or living in country and dating young women in their 20’s. One rung up the ladder from the rock spiders who try the same tactics with girls 10 years younger again and one below us desperate old guys searching for equally desperate and manipulative older mail order brides.