women and work

[Son of Clyde]

Do you guys have any thoughts about women with very small children who return to work right away and hire a "nanny" to watch the kids?

My wife has a "nanny" job so it is good for her but how good is it for the kids who really only spend time with both parents on weekends?

I made a comment while driving her to work today that I was opposed to women whose husbands make decent salaries, who insist on working before the children are of school age.

I say this as a former "latch key" child whose mother had no choice.

My mother worked 2 days a week from the time I was 7 until she separated from my father and was forced to work full time.

[KenC]

Clyde,

Russia has had a long standing "nanny" or "latchkey" system.  It is called "Babushka.":D  Seriously, I have had discussions with my wife regarding child raising and she is of the mind set that it is perfectly acceptable for the grandparents do handle the bulk of the child raising while the mom is working.

In my first marriage, I insisted that my wife did not work at least until our children were 5 or school age.  In a perfect world, I think that that is the way to go, but having a Babushka as back up isn't all that bad either.

BTW, Russia also has had a"day care system" for many many years too.

KenC

[TigerPaws]

Son of Clyde,

 You asked a very difficult question and while everyone is different I believe if the family is able to afford it the mother should stay at home with the child (children) as long as she is comfortable with doing so. Not everyone has a Babushka to handle the day care and shipping the child off to a general day care can be expensive as well as create problems for a young child (at least in my humble opinion). Of course if you and your lady must work then having a Babushka willing and able to watch the child is best option, other than that personally I believe it is in the best interest of the child to be with the mother. 

[docetae]

Having my ex at home during 2 years after the birth of our last children was mostly the root of my divorce ....

[KenC]

Having my ex at home during 2 years after the birth of our last children was mostly the root of my divorce ....

How so?  Please elaborate.

KenC

[jb]

Ken,

Have you ever watched "Desperate Housewives"? 

[KenC]

Ken,

Have you ever watched "Desperate Housewives"? 

Yes.

KenC

[Son of Clyde]

Seems to me todays parents are raising kids that are relative strangers.

I know women who left the workforce for 15 years to raise children.

Dad usually has to be the breadwinner but now it is mom too? 

[TigerPaws]

I was watching a program on this very subject some time ago and an observation was made which to me makes perfect sense.

 Children today are a luxury, we as parents no longer need them to survive as was the case throughout most of history. Historically children were necessary for the survival of the family and they felt this, without their help and contribution it is very possible the family would not survive. In more recent times children have become far less important to the survival of the family and for the continued care of their parent's as they age, so they have in essence become a luxury an indulgence of the parents perceived need for a child.

Just some food for discussion.

[Bruno]

Children today are a luxury, we as parents no longer need them to survive as was the case throughout most of history.

Not so sure... without children, no more new workers for when we will be retired... since private and state pension service invest our money pay in various economic sector ... they will be short in money for pay our pension if we have nobody for work...

Our pension is linked to the plus value of economie... all sector need new worker for replace us when we are retired... no child, no more economie ( worker and buyer of product ), ... so, no more retirement money... a country without children is a dead country at short term...

Of course, rich people will last a little more long

[KenC]

Tigerpaws,

I understand what you are saying.  My own Great- grandparents emigrated to Michigan from Russia.  They had a 35 acre farm there.  They had 9 children, mostly because the first 7 were girls.  They needed the male help for the future of the farm.  The girls were next to usless in their minds and my own grandmother was shipped off to the city for a prearrainged marriage to a man 26 years her senior.

KenC

[al-c]

In an ideal world, mom should stay at home to raise the kids until they start school.

But who lives in an ideal world?  We live in the real world, where two incomes are needed at all times to pay for things like food and shelter and clothing for those children.

 

[TigerPaws]

al-c,

 No one said you HAVE to have children:shock: and no one said if you want children that you must have the same lifestyle as you had before you had a child (children?). 

  

[TigerPaws]

 my own grandmother was shipped off to the city for a prearrainged marriage to a man 26 years her senior.

KenC

KenC,

 Do you know much about the history behind the decision to marry off your grandmother and how did the marriage work out besides producing your father or mother.

 

[catzenmouse]

I also come from a single parent family -latch key- similar to SoC. For us (if at all possible) she would stay home while the child is young with maybe some part time work evenings or weekends. Increase the part time work when the child starts school and then go full (or increase the P/T hours when the child is at a reasonable responsible age where they could be home for an hour or two by themselves. This is all relative to the desire of the woman to work and to the needs of the family.

Ken

[KenC]

 my own grandmother was shipped off to the city for a prearrainged marriage to a man 26 years her senior.

KenC

KenC,

 Do you know much about the history behind the decision to marry off your grandmother and how did the marriage work out besides producing your father or mother.

 
[/quote]
There were just too many girls to feed on the farm in 1928 so an arraingment was made.  I know there was a dowery paid.  The marriage didn't work out too well.  My Grandfather was controling and abusive.  After 14 years and bearing him two children, my Grandmother divorced him in 1942.  I always thought it was ironic that my Grandmother went from an old fashion concept of an arrainged marriage to a rather progressive concept of divorce in a span of 14 years.

KenC

[Todd]

Has anyone done the economics (number crunching) of women working when they have young children?  I just want to confirm that my estimate wasn't too far off the mark?  I live in Boston as an FYI...and I calculated that my wife would have to make roughly $50 K/year prior to breaking even financially.  Here was the calc:

$1000/month/kid-day care=$24,000 annually

Tax (State and Federal on wife's income):  $20,000 annually

Tax Impact (pushing husband's income into higher tax bracket...3%):  say $5,000

$200/month....increased food costs= $2,400 annually (eating out more)

Other expenses???  Clothing...transportation (whether another car would be

needed,etc.)

Is my math wrong?  Does someone have real world experience and could help me out?

[BC]

IMHO taking care of kids and home is a full time job that should not be delegated to others..  being good parents should be THE priority with kids in the house.

[Bruno]

Does someone have real world experience and could help me out?

I have real experience... but these experience is limited to my own country... a country with a social system who "finance" children... it is a politic choice : pay for children or accept massive immigration !!!

About your math... don't you have lower tax when you have child ? Maybe you can spare some thousand $ year on the extern activities... Having child change your life... finish the long night in disco or cafe... all the time you use for take care of child, you don't spend money in other activities 

Of course, you need rise your yearly budget for visit family since the parents of your wife will wish see the children...

I don't think that ONE child bring more expense... you only spend your money in a other way... TWO child become difficult... THREE child bring you a lot of social adventage ( maybe only in Belgium  : mortage for home with 0% interest, lower price for energy, 75% reduction on railroad and bus, free entrance to attraction park, first 45000$ income free of tax,... etc )

[KenC]

KenC

[Bruno]

But raising two fine human beings, as I have done, is priceless.

Fully agree with you... my first marriage was a misluck but the best experience of my life, because of the child... not always easy but it is a real life reward... this experience have fully change my life, in the good way...

 

[Son of Clyde]

I remember mom probably went to work full-time when I was 13.

We were very close to the neighbors so if I had any problems I could go to the neighbors on either side of us.

When I was about 15 she took a job further from home meaning I would be alone from the time I returned from school until around 5:15. I would usually put our dinner in the oven and it would be ready when she got home.

For a long time she was bowling one night a week meaning she would leave from 7:30 and return home about 11:30. It was the night Carol Burnett was on and I would go to sleep after watching the program.

Funny how my wife's babysitting job brings up all these memories. I did learn independence and so is my step-son who is often home alone. He actually enjoys the freedom.

[docetae]

My ex is Canadian, not from FSU. We have 3 children, 2 were at home, 1 at the day care. I was supporting all the $ side but she found herself like in jail at home ...add to this issues for her during pregnancy and the delivery and I was reponsible of all the trouble happening to her ...

no more comments on this topic ...

the woman I'm will meet next march is mother of one and she wants to take care of a large family , me too

[TigerPaws]

[user=16] [/user][user=16]

KenC

[/user]

wrote:

[size="3"]But raising two fine human beings, as I have done, is priceless.[/size]

[color="blue"][size="4"]KenC,

 Sometimes I was not so sure my son was going to make it to his 18th birthday, if you know boys then you know when they turn 12 or 13 you have to use a baseball bat just to get their attention:)
 I have often joked that if I ever kill one of my children I want a jury of my peers, that means no grand parents, no single people and no one who dose not have children the same age as mine. My defence would be "I just lost it, they mouthed off one time too many". :seething:
 Well in the end he made it out of the house alive but there were times I could have ...........
[/size][/color]

[KenC]

Tigerpaws,

You know I only remember a couple of times when I had to back my kids up against a wall (figuratively and really)  Once was my daughter when she was mouthing off very disrespectly to my ex and once when my son challanged me.  The most hurtful thing I could ever do to my kids was just to tell them I was disappointed in them.  Whatever I did, it must of worked.  I just got off the phone with my son and he won salesman of the year for his company.  The lil SOB knocked down about $56K last month.  Not too shabby for a punk 26 year old a few years out of college.  (Bare with a proud Daddy on Christmas)

KenC