The Struggle For Ukraine

[Bee Farmer]

The only time a Challenger 2 Tank has been destroyed during operations was by another Challenger 2 Tank in a friendly fire incident at Basra in 2003,when the destroyed Tank had it's hatch open.


It has seen operational service in Bosnia & Herzegovina,Kosovo and Iraq.


The Russian Tank crews will be sh*tting themselves.

Very few will be.  Why?  Because there are only 14.  Most Russian tank crews will never see a Challenger 2.  The front line is too long.  14 tanks can't be everywhere at once.  Keep in mind that Zaluzhny said he could defeat the Russians if he had 300 Western tanks, and 700 IFV's.

14 tanks is less than 5% of what a competent general said is needed.  You're delusional if you think that 14 tanks is going to win the war.  It's a great tank, yes.  But 14 is still less than 5% of what is needed.

[Trenchcoat]

Very few will be.  Why?  Because there are only 14.  Most Russian tank crews will never see a Challenger 2.  The front line is too long.  14 tanks can't be everywhere at once.  Keep in mind that Zaluzhny said he could defeat the Russians if he had 300 Western tanks, and 700 IFV's.

14 tanks is less than 5% of what a competent general said is needed.  You're delusional if you think that 14 tanks is going to win the war.  It's a great tank, yes.  But 14 is still less than 5% of what is needed.

You're forgetting about the German Nazi Panzer tanks being sent also

Them combined will no doubt be a formidable force on the battlefield.

To be honest it's probably more about Ukraine holding their own but who knows. My guess is that the west are happy to prolong this conflict as they know good things will likely come as a result of doing so. Knocking back the Russian Invasion now could lead to a bruised and agitated Russia that could just come back later harbouring grudges. If the west drip feed Ukraine modern western weaponry and prolong the conflict till the Russians are exhausted and bankrupt then they can get rid of Russia as a threat permanently.

Anyhow it looks like the Challenger tanks being sent will be facing off against this gear:

http://defence-blog.com/russian-army-receives-new-batch-of-t-90m-tanks/

[krimster2]

too bad the confederate air force lost their B-17 last month
they coulda given it to Ukraine along with the British tanks!!!

what better way to say
that we stand shoulder to shoulder, heart to heart with Ukraine


don't be worried Tovarische!!
the "Shaman" he who casts NO SHADOW
the architect of the Kerch Bridge Bombing
is at this VERY MOMENT
somewhere in the Russian Far East
FREEZING HIS JHOPPA OFF!!!! it's SO freaking COLD!!
but it'll be worth it!!!
oh, and.... ummmm, short Chinese oil and gas stocks
PAKA!!

Volshebnick of Vilnius

[Chelseaboy]

How many thousand tanks do the Russians have?

3118 less than they had on February 23rd.

[Chelseaboy]

Very few will be.  Why?  Because there are only 14.  Most Russian tank crews will never see a Challenger 2.  The front line is too long.  14 tanks can't be everywhere at once.  Keep in mind that Zaluzhny said he could defeat the Russians if he had 300 Western tanks, and 700 IFV's.

14 tanks is less than 5% of what a competent general said is needed.  You're delusional if you think that 14 tanks is going to win the war.  It's a great tank, yes.  But 14 is still less than 5% of what is needed.

Ukraine has asked for 300 western tanks because they'd rather like to finish the war in less than a month.


I4 Challenger Tanks will take considerably longer,but the Russian Tank crews will still be sh*tting themselves,because they will never know what lurks around every corner waiting to obliterate them.


Just imagine every day the Russian Tank Commanders tell their crews to advance "Da Da " the crews say,until they get round their first corner and there it is facing them "Challenger 2 " they scream " Niet Niet "..then oblivion.

[krimster2]

Prigozhin will replace Putin next year
and purge 90% of the oligarchs
and claim THEY stabbed Putin in the back
and THIS is why Russia lost
Et Tu Navalny?

Bardakistan Airlines
Wagner - Flight of the Valkeries on golden shields to Valhalla

hard to believe, but next year, Russia is gonna suck EVEN more than this year...
depressing reality
the conduct of the presidential election this summer will tell you what's coming down the Ulitsa next year in Rossiya

[Chelseaboy]

How Russia will have declined as a nation having Prigozhin as their President


He spent nine years in Prison as a bitch.


The lowest of the low in Russian prison culture.

[Bee Farmer]

My guess is that the west are happy to prolong this conflict as they know good things will likely come as a result of doing so.

The west is not doing this in the hopes of good things.  Good things aren't going to come.
The west is helping Ukraine because if they do not, VERY BAD things happen. 

Russia is trying to plug geographical gaps where they have been invaded before, so they can create a better defended border.  Ukraine is not the goal.  Ukraine is a stepping stone.

Russia wants the Bessarabian Gap in Romania.  It wants the Polish Gap.  It wants the Baltic countries so the Baltic Sea is their border.

That means there will be a direct fight with NATO.  NATO knows that Russia doesn't stand a chance in a conventional war.  The Russian army will get annhilated. That means Russia's only option is to start nuking European cities.

Knocking back the Russian Invasion now could lead to a bruised and agitated Russia that could just come back later harbouring grudges.

Russia CAN'T come back later.  It is now or never for Russia.  When the Soviet Union fell apart, Russians stopped having kids.  There aren't enough young people to have an army big enough in the future.  Why do you think they are drafting 50 year old guys now?  Or kidnapping Ukrainian kids?  (trying to rebuild their population)

If the west drip feed Ukraine modern western weaponry and prolong the conflict till the Russians are exhausted and bankrupt then they can get rid of Russia as a threat permanently.

Russia is dying off from old age.  By 2070 there won't be enough people to be a country.

Russia knows it is dying.  The question is if they go away now, or if they go away in 50 years.

[krimster2]

remember Yanukovich Pro Russian President of Ukraine, ousted after Maidan?
he went to prison for robbing and beating women, and was also part of the Donetsk Mafiya after prison...google it!



a good strategy is to send them Ukrainians a small amount of a VARIETY of weapons and see what the "kill rates" are for for each type
kill rate is weapon results plus training, plus deployment all summed together
divided by "cost per unit"
and convert this data into some kinda "cost justification" value for each category
I propse the "DeadRussiansPerDollar" (DRPD Index)

Once you create this sorted list of DRPD values, from then on if you want to maximize the DRPD, you spend as much money as you can on #1 of the list

The problem of course, is you can't put all of your "eggs in one basket" you can't just ONLY fire HI-MARS!!
so, instead, and this next part becomes surreal, you gotta use "linear programming"
a technique developed by Soviet Mathematics to optimize the conversion of raw materials to products
in essence, the math behind a "centralized planned economy"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_programming

this is how you optimize your military "budget"

weird, how ideas resonate with other similar nearby ideas of the same frequency
like a warehouse full of tuning forks.....
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Putin's plan
get the republican "FreeDumb Caucus" to cause America to default on it's debt, due to not expanding the debt ceiling
this will cause economic chaos throughout the world

George Santos is a Russian plant and not George Soros (see the difference?)
one of Rand Paul's relatives was just convicted for illegally funneling Russian money to Trump's campaign (google both of these)
google Oleg Deripask'as close political association with these and other kentucy politicins plus Trump lifting sanctions from him, and then read of Deripaska's connections to Paul Manafort

neurotic Amerika will hang itself
and Russians will create the tweet that talks them into it
so thinketh Putin

[Boethius]

I highly doubt Prigozhin will replace Putin.  He is not part of that "inner circle". 


A long time ago, I wrote about Yanukovych.  I also said when he first appeared on the scene, that despite claiming to be a custodian, Medvedev was former KGB.  I also posted, contemporaneous with it occurring, that the Moscow apartment bombing, which lead to the second Chechen war, was an FSB plot, and not the work of Chechens. 


I believe the apartment bombing has now been linked to the Putin government.  I don't know if Medvedev's past has been confirmed.  You can be certain Yanukovych worked for the KGB.  Common criminals didn't have their records sealed, or get to travel abroad in Soviet times.

I asked my husband, who survived without arrest, despite being surrounded by informants, and a cat and mouse game with the KGB for about six years.  I asked him about Yanukovych's record.  His response (in part) -
 
Yanukovych allegedly served time for sexual assault in the 1960's.  The article of the Soviet criminal code for which an individual was convicted was emblazoned across his prison uniform.  I can guarantee you, Soviet criminals convicted of rape did not last in Soviet prisons.  In the late 1970's or early 1980's, the USSR started to put sex offenders in separate prisons, because they were killed, usually within a week of landing in a prison.  Nevertheless, according to a prosecutor looking into his record, he was convicted of robbery, not rape -
 
http://www.rg.ru/2005/07/13/yanukovich.html
 
Yanukovych went abroad in the 1970's, which means that his family records to before the Revolution were reviewed by the KGB, and he was deemed an "honourable member of the proletariat".  It was extremely unusual for Soviet citizens to travel to the West then, let alone someone convicted of a crime. 
 
ETA - Later, he told me "The USSR collapses.  A guy in Donetsk uses force to collect a fortune, buy a football team, and builds a sports arena.  He goes to a game, surrounded by bodyguards, and sits to watch a football match.  All of a sudden, he is blown up, together with hundreds of innocent spectators.  Shortly after that, Akhmetov steps into the vacuum.  And who happened to be at that match?

Obscure people will point to Yanukovych's criminal record and shout 'Tut tut', without looking at the whole picture.  Look at information that is being released today from the East (he means Eastern Ukraine).  It is not a coincidence that information from 2 decades ago is slowly making its way into the press now.

Everything points to Yanukovych being a former member of the KGB."

[krimster2]

Prigozhin is a Tambov
some of Putin's friends from the old days are Tambovs, and remember where Putin's from...

but not all Putin's friends are Tambovs
some are Solntsevskaya Bratva down in Moscva
so it's gonna be a turf war folks
fight club for oligarch's
WINNERS TAKE ALL!!!

http://charter97.org/en/news/2022/12/27/529829/

what better way than to pick some surrogate named Tambov for a key post when it all "goes down"!!!  LOL
and this guy looks like a "pillar of integrity"
and I'm sure there's a good reason why Putin's chef is appointing a Tambov (literally) as leader of the Western Miltary District
maybe he's some high minded altruist, protecting the public's safety
then again, maybe NOT!!! LOL!!!

but it's looking like
it's gonna be Tambovs vrs Moscva blatnoys next year
the snake will grab it's own tail and start eating it
blatnoys ain't pridorki though
there will be BLOOD

PS
Dear State Department:
"n July 2022, the U.S. State Department offered a reward of up to $10 million for information about Prigozhin, the Internet Research Agency, and other entities involved in 2016 U.S. election interference.

what?
state department
WTF were you when I was in jail in Honduras back in '88, I got myself out- thanks for nothing!
I'll give you everything you want about Prigozhin, Internet Research Agency, etc
hopefully you all in "state" recognize that Prigozhin  has talent from "Blue Orchid"
ask your neighbors in "customs" and "secret service" about the blue orchid case
and who it was who tipped them off with a letter - go ahead ask them - I gave them a career making case
and I can do the same for you

 but immunity + 20 million, no measly 10, and I can go back to work for them, after this is all over, if I so choose
that's my deal, take it, or stay a grade 12 the rest of your career

[Trenchcoat]

The west is not doing this in the hopes of good things.  Good things aren't going to come.
The west is helping Ukraine because if they do not, VERY BAD things happen. 

Russia is trying to plug geographical gaps where they have been invaded before, so they can create a better defended border.  Ukraine is not the goal.  Ukraine is a stepping stone.

Russia wants the Bessarabian Gap in Romania.  It wants the Polish Gap.  It wants the Baltic countries so the Baltic Sea is their border.

That means there will be a direct fight with NATO.  NATO knows that Russia doesn't stand a chance in a conventional war.  The Russian army will get annhilated. That means Russia's only option is to start nuking European cities.

Russia CAN'T come back later.  It is now or never for Russia.  When the Soviet Union fell apart, Russians stopped having kids.  There aren't enough young people to have an army big enough in the future.  Why do you think they are drafting 50 year old guys now?  Or kidnapping Ukrainian kids?  (trying to rebuild their population)

Russia is dying off from old age.  By 2070 there won't be enough people to be a country.

Russia knows it is dying.  The question is if they go away now, or if they go away in 50 years.

You have just shown your IW falls somewhat below mine Bee Farmer

Russia is not interested in geographical gaps at least not ones that it would contemplate using nukes to deal with. Russia does it want to use nukes against NATO countries as it knows NATO will have no other option but to return in kind.

Russia is hoping to pick off non-Nato countries as they are the easiest targets and even then they are struggling. If Ukraine fell it would then likely be Moldova then probably Georgia then probably the Stan's. That would likely satisfy Putler he would be getting on then so likely looking to retire knowing that he has pieced most of the Russian Empire/FSU back together again.

The West know that this domino effect is in play and want to stop it happening in Ukraine from Russia becoming an even bigger threat. As Krim has shown they have maneuvered the situation to their economic advantage. Now they have Russia in a position where they are stuck and exhausting themselves. The West aren't going to want to let Russia out of that strangle hold not by not giving Ukraine any more aid and not by giving Ukraine so much aid that they win against Russia before Russia is exhausted.

Another reason not to give Ukraine the means to finish Russia of now of course is that the West doesn't want to take the illusion of a possibility of a conventional military victory from Russia so soon. If it does then there is a greater possibility of Russia seeing it as themselves having to be forced to use unconventional means against Ukraine. Better instead to have Russia exhausted, bankrupt and on the verge of breaking up. That way they have Russia completely at their knees begging for an end to it all rather than a wounded beast seeking revenge.

[Bee Farmer]

You have just shown your IW falls somewhat below mine Bee Farmer

Russia is not interested in geographical gaps at least not ones that it would contemplate using nukes to deal with. Russia does it want to use nukes against NATO countries as it knows NATO will have no other option but to return in kind.

Russia is hoping to pick off non-Nato countries as they are the easiest targets and even then they are struggling. If Ukraine fell it would then likely be Moldova then probably Georgia then probably the Stan's. That would likely satisfy Putler he would be getting on then so likely looking to retire knowing that he has pieced most of the Russian Empire/FSU back together again.

The West know that this domino effect is in play and want to stop it happening in Ukraine from Russia becoming an even bigger threat. As Krim has shown they have maneuvered the situation to their economic advantage. Now they have Russia in a position where they are stuck and exhausting themselves. The West aren't going to want to let Russia out of that strangle hold not by not giving Ukraine any more aid and not by giving Ukraine so much aid that they win against Russia before Russia is exhausted.

Another reason not to give Ukraine the means to finish Russia of now of course is that the West doesn't want to take the illusion of a possibility of a conventional military victory from Russia so soon. If it does then there is a greater possibility of Russia seeing it as themselves having to be forced to use unconventional means against Ukraine. Better instead to have Russia exhausted, bankrupt and on the verge of breaking up. That way they have Russia completely at their knees begging for an end to it all rather than a wounded beast seeking revenge.

Explain this:

[Trenchcoat]

Explain this:

Is that where to you're getting your info from Bee Farmer some so called 'expert', you might as well listen to the resident forum expert here

Most of Europe has an aging population issue, I would say made much worse by feminism in western Europe and less state support in the case of the FSU. Birth rate however goes up and down over time. I would say this guy is overcooking the issue to push out his theory.

Russia has no interest in attacking Poland. Poland is a part of NATO and the Russians know even if Ukraine falls their army would not be good enough to take on NATO forces. Beside that if Putin went to Nukes over Poland so would we. It would simply be a case that we kicked his ass out of Poland and an armistice would be signed. Putin is NOT going to go for NATO countries their are much easier prey to be had, Moldova, Georgia, the Stan's, etc.

Even if the argument were true about the low population issue Putin knows that he doesn't stand any hope of taking these 'gaps', strategic points, etc. His economy is going south now so is his military he won't be able to take on NATO it's not even on the cards. He bungled the Ukrainian invasion and his forces got shown up as inadequate against an army not equipped to NATO standards. His army would be destroyed like it was in a shooting gallery if it went up against NATO, the thought of the matter is laughable!

[krimster2]

Peter Zeihan, is a paid commercial analyst, who is able to make a living by "scraping the web" either with a program or with an intern, from sources like twitter,facebook etc and organizing them and summarizing them, he does this without EVER having to visit there

this is the "other thing" that YOU DON'T GET!
there is just no substitute for GOING THERE...
and BEING THERE

[Chelseaboy]

Looks like Europe is gearing up for a war with Russia,


The head of the European Council,Charles Michel  ,predicted that the next 2-3 weeks would be decisive in the war in Ukraine ,and that "they will largely determine our future " .

[krimster2]

maybe...

it depends...
Wagner has only a VERY short time left to DELIVER SOMETHING
otherwise
Putin will have the same decision to make that the Kaiser made in 1915 at Ypres
but because dumb ass Russians ALWAYS play the "Nuclear Threat" Card
that when they REALLY want to DO IT!
they can't just send some subltle signal
it has to be BIG

at the same time, there's no way to avoid telegraphing to the USA that things are gonna go this way...
USA will know what missile and from where it will be firing BEFORE it's even fired
whereever in Russia it's launched from will be TOAST xtra crispy

Putin needs to be convinced that escalating the war this way will COST HIM FAR MORE than he can imagine
NATO will have to do a major escalation as well

OTOH, Putin is likely to go all in and say look MFers
each of these freaking Satan Ballistic Missile has an EMP warhead bigger than the Tsar Bomba
and it'd only take just one to blow North America back to 1830....
and I'd show it on the silo launchpad
then...

Putin skazal, "you Westerners don't know about EMP Weapons, but we Russians DO"
but don't worry...
I just launched three that are about 10% that size
and they will be detonating over the territory of these so called Ukrainian Fascists in less than 30 seconds

when they do, every piece of Western Military technology will be worthless unless you can throw it at someone

then the drunken, horny soldiers will be turned loose, and after they slaughter the "so called Ukrainians"
let them have their women in usual Russian fashion...

this is what vicory looks like to Russian dumb asses now...

when you think about HOW CLOSE they came to usurping Ukraine's national destiny
by covertly interfering in Ukraine's elections....

if Russia coulda rolled the clock back to making Regions popular again in Ukraine (or a new fake party)
they could've pretty much just bribed their way to get 75% of what they wanted in Ukraine
but NO...
THEY wanted to be the ones to GET the bribes
and not PAY them....

and to do that you gotta grab the whole enchilada for yourself
and bitchslap the poor Mexican kid who was trying to sell it to you
pagarte? 
sal de aquí!!!

it's a tough world folks
where ONLY the tough thrive let alone survive

still the issue about "the offensive" from either side
the usual "late winter" timing issues weather influencing mobility, etc

we do KNOW that IF Russia launches an offensive, the USA will know exactly how many, where, when...
and Ukrainans will be freakin slaughtering them

Israel just allowed the transfer of the USA's "pre-positioned" inventory of military "consumables" like 155mm artillery shells from Israel
the kinds with proximity fuses
plus Israel will throw in some of their own
in view of what's happening in the middle-east, I wonder what changed Israel's mind
that they are willing to decrease their own security and allow this transfer to Ukraine

[Trenchcoat]

Looks like Europe is gearing up for a war with Russia,


The head of the European Council,Charles Michel  ,predicted that the next 2-3 weeks would be decisive in the war in Ukraine ,and that "they will largely determine our future " .

I doubt that, Germany is dragging its feet on allowing other countries license for them to send their Leopard Tanks to Ukraine. Sholtz & his government aren't wanting to get that involved. France is a long way from the action as I don't think to bothered about it all. The EU itself while seemingly somewhat sympathetic to Ukraine I personally think doesn't have the military leadership and has other issues. I don't think they are looking to put themselves against Russia directly.

That leaves NATO led mainly by the US. On that front I don't think they are looking to engage Russia in conflict, there's no military build up on a scale that would suggest that.

In general I think the view of the West is that they are happy for Russia to slog it out and exhaust themselves. In general the Russians are becoming weaker as a result of this war and the West stronger. Already it has shown that Russia who were once seen as powerful is not so much so. Going to war with them could play into their hands by justifying the need/use of chemical & mass destruction weapons. At the moment the West has Russia where they want them. Russia is unhappily locked into a war of its own choosing and losing out all they way, so no need to upset that now

[BC]

Looks like Europe is gearing up for a war with Russia,


The head of the European Council,Charles Michel  ,predicted that the next 2-3 weeks would be decisive in the war in Ukraine ,and that "they will largely determine our future " .

I interpreted the statement to mean that EU countries will bring forward substantial increases in assistance and arms.

[BC]

I doubt that, Germany is dragging its feet on allowing other countries license for them to send their Leopard Tanks to Ukraine. Sholtz & his government aren't wanting to get that involved.

Germany has a history and wishes to balance their actions accordingly, not acting unilaterally, which places its role as an aggressor state.  Poland asked for permission, and rather than approve, Germany stated they would not object.  A subtle but essential difference in their POV.  Poland is being more subtle by insisting on permission, so their stance might also be a veiled form of reticence with acting alone.

Germany has already committed to providing training with the Leopard and is surveying their inventory so they are prepared when the political situation is settled.  IMO they will act and provide tanks participating as part of a coalition.

The US throwing in Abrams tanks is not practical at this time due to its complexity, fuel, lengthy training, and high maintenance requirements, mainly regarding the turbine engine it uses. The US has already or will start training on the Abrams, which may come into play later.  There are still some classified aspects with the Abrams so that plays a role as well. Wouldn't want to lose one or have one break down near the front.  The standard firing range of both Leopard and Abrams is only around 3 miles, so they are effective only close to the front lines.

I'm confident UA will get Leopards when a coalition is present.

[Trenchcoat]

Yesterday Ukraine's Foreign Minister was interviewed on the BBC News Hardtalk program. A big clanger he made was admitting that the level of economic support (at present) was not enough to support Ukraine's economy. Despite that he didn't agree that Ukraine's economy would collapse.

I personally think Ukraine can go on sometime with it's economy failing but that in the end it could become a real issue for it perhaps moreso than what is happening on the front line. Russia too is likely to suffer badly economically but is really a case of seeing she can gote distance there before economic collapse and break up. For all the military rhetoric I can see this war more likely ending up being concluded on an economic victory/defeat of either or both nations.

[Chelseaboy]

I interpreted the statement to mean that EU countries will bring forward substantial increases in assistance and arms.

How would that determine our future ?


In any event, the much-wanted Leopard Tanks are still not being transferred to Ukraine,after weeks of being asked for them,which suggests the countries who have them are keeping them for a reason ?


Maybe these countries prefer to wait until the wolves are at the door,rather than trying to destroy them before they reach their doors.


Germany needs to wake up,because the Chechens have already stated that ,unless Putin says no,they won't stop until they reach Berlin.


I doubt German forces will be able to hold back the horde...or maybe they're relying on NATO ( the USA ) to save them.

[Chelseaboy]

According to the ru media,out of the 50,000 + prisoners recruited by Prigozhin for PMC Wagner,only 10,000 are still fighting in Ukraine.


The rest were killed,wounded,missing,surrendered or deserted with weapons in their hands,including to Russia.


Sounds like anarchy in the Russian Fed is looming.

[Trenchcoat]

Ukraine's Deputy Defence Minister has now been hauled up on corruption charges. I kind of expected this from the start of the war and I know said as much on here that there are no assurances that money given would necessarily get to where it was supposed to go. Perhaps it's at least something that Ukraine are trying to bring some of these people to book. It's a form of utmost stupidly I think to risk illegally taking when doing so may undermine Ukraine's war effort and lead to defeat. Then those idiots who did so may end up on the sharp end as a result of their own greed. I think unfortunately on that front Ukraine is as bad a Russia for endemic corruption. Zelensky has vowed to stamp it out and as lofty goal as it appears I hope he does though history tends to suggest he is up against it on that one.

At the moment it's looking like Ukraine is going to get more T-72's from countries around Europe than Leopard Tanks. Possibly Germany fears triggering a full scale war if giving the green light to their use while counties such as Poland who would give them probably feel hamstrung without a legal green light on the issue from Germany. News was that they approved the transfer of six tanks to Ukraine but I'm not sure if that was actually correct, possibly still no tanks approved by Germany for transfer/use.

That just leaves the 12 or so Challenger Tanks from the UK as the only Modern Tanks for Ukraine to use unless Germany changes it's stance. Russia is getting some new T-90's through so it could make it even Stevens, we'll see. Looks like a big tank battle could be in the offing this spring so we'll see how they perform.

One possible issue with the Challenger and possibly Leopard tanks are that they are a lot heavier than the Soviet tanks. That means that weather dependent they may be stuck to road/town/city usage.

Looks like by the time training/tanks arrival for both sides are complete will probably be early spring so things could heat up a fair bit then around late March/early April time perhaps.

[Chelseaboy]

Yes,corruption and deceit has always been a huge issue in Ukraine,as it is in Russia.


They are very similar people really with many marriages between the two countries,which makes it astonishing the Russians decided to invade the country of their "brothers and sisters " and cause such death and destruction.


Anyway,it seems someone read my post of earlier today...again,because according to Reuters 23 minutes ago,Germany has now decided to send Leopard Tanks to Ukraine ,and will allow other countries such as Poland to do so.