Russian Women Discussion
RWD Discussion Groups => Starting Out => Topic started by: wrf101 on August 11, 2015, 01:35:24 AM
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Hi all I am new here! I've been to Ukraine twice but that was 9 years ago. Both trips I found a good girl and on the 2nd trip I found a couple scammers as well :(
Anyhow, figured I'd try Ukraine again as I'm now 41 and the dating scene in Utah is not that great - many of the women are divorced with 3 kids and emotional wrecks. I'm oversimplifying of course, but you know how it goes...
So per recommendations on this site I signed up to freeukrainianwomen.com. Probably spent 5 hours on it doing searches and also putting up a good profile with lots of interesting pics of me doing interesting stuff. I'm moderately attractive, in good shape, good job, and I'm pretty good with putting up a good online dating profile. But I am overwhelmed by 20 flirts and another 7-8 letters in 5 hours. I'm sure at this point another 10 have dropped in my inbox.
This may sound like bragging, but actually I'm a bit concerned as to how many of these might be scammers just waiting to pounce on the new guy? Has anyone else had experience with this PARTICULAR site, who could tell me how many of these might actually be legit? Is this just because I'm new, or are women really this desperate to find a decent guy and get the hell out of Ukraine?!? A lot of the girls who sent me flirts were ones I favorited first, and I was picking girls from towns other than the big ones like Kiev and Odessa.
Thanks for any input or tips for this specific site.
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First welcome to the forum. Not all sites are created equal when it comes to finding an FSUW. Any site or emails that seem to good to be true usually are. I met my fiancé on LuckyLovers, but even that site has it's scammers. Be smart with your search. Ask questions and don't fall for B.S. because of a pretty face. There are site recommendations, here on the forum. The one that's pretty honest is Elenas Models, you can post a profile for free, but you'll have to pay if you want to make contact. Please avoid the pay by letter sites, they're almost always a scam. Another site that's completely free and not so bad, is Fdating.com.
Do your homework and read the posts here. Lots of good info on what to do and more importantly what NOT to do.
Tag
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Cool, thanks Tag!
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I have never used that website. But I have used similar websites.
My dad always used to tell me that if you throw a bare hook in the water you ain't a gonna catch no fish. He then showed me what happened when I put a big fat juicy worm on the hook. Lots of fish would come to take a bite out of it.
Those who know the routine fairly well will tell you that a new profile gets tons of interest, while an older profile only gets interest from those that can't find anyone new. Similarly guys looking for women will always go after the new women.
It sounds to me, by your description, that you have put enough information out there (a big fat juicy worm on a hook) to tweak the interest of quite a number of ladies who are looking.
Remember, never send money to anyone prior to meeting them. Do not promise vacations or big gifts when going to meet someone.
It is better to gain some type of confirmation that the person is real by a VK account (with friend interaction) than to go in blind. Scammers are really good at create false personalities and profiles, so keep your radar up.
In all things, good luck.
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Ok, thanks Jone. What's a VK account?
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It is the same site as Ukrainiangirlsdating, dmlogin,com, etc. etc. They must have 30 different urls. The site is legit. You can pay $120 for an entire year. I get email there all the time, I just don't have a chance to check it. There are scammers, beware. The PPL scam is having major issues this year. So women are going out on their own at the honest sites. So be careful! Skype chat with your lady as soon as you can and if she can't give you home address, phone number, viber, whatsapp, etc. just drop her.
There are a few demons out there that are try to prodate at these sites. They are very hard to spot. So trust your feelings. If you feel you are being asked to buy something, if they are secretive about their social networking presence, you have to watch for signs. Make her talk about herself and her life, listen for clues.
I had a friend who used bridesandlovers. He was going to meet his lady in Italy. Unfortunately, for his scammer, she let him pay for the plane tickets. He arrived in Italy only to be greeted by her and her. . .Uncle. Of course, that was her boyfriend. They were arranging a post trip, visa scam. The "Uncle" claimed he gave the lady money for the visa to Italy. Well, he agreed to pay. But he needed to consult with his bank the next morning. Over night, while she slept, he cancelled her flight and hotel room. He took her to see her "Uncle" the next morning, but somehow lost track of her. Then he headed back to the hotel, made final payments and took the next flight out to London.
This looks how things will evolve. It is getting dangerous.
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Anyhow, figured I'd try Ukraine again as I'm now 41 and the dating scene in Utah is not that great - many of the women are divorced with 3 kids and emotional wrecks. I'm oversimplifying of course, but you know how it goes...
I live in the Bakken oil fields and even the toothless, drug addicted crones
with facial hair have a gaggle of boyfriends competing for their attention.
A lot of the girls who sent me flirts were ones I favorited first, and I was picking girls from towns other than the big ones like Kiev and Odessa.
Thanks for any input or tips for this specific site.
The site appears to be a pay by the month site rather than a pay
by the letter or minute of chat site, which is good. You can find
bad/fake girls anywhere so always use your head.
What's your theory on flirt/favorited ? In my mind you or them
are either interested in each other or not. As far as I can see there
isn't an additional cost of sending them a letter so why not send them
an introduction letter rather than a flirt/favorite?
If you are planning to visit just one girl my recommendation is to put
together a list of what you are seeking and then do a search and write a
letter to every girl in the database who meets your criteria. You won't be
writing anyone but girls that you are attracted to ages say 28-35.
Then you sift through your responses until you find the best one to
visit. If your plan is to visit one MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A BACKUP PLAN!!!
If you plan to visit many then I recommend that you pick a city and
two weeks before you get on a plane you write the same database of
girls in that city and ask them if they would like to meet you for tea or
coffee. I wouldn't write more than one or two letters in a visit many
campaign.
Udachi!
Bill
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I live in the Bakken oil fields and even the toothless, drug addicted crones
with facial hair have a gaggle of boyfriends competing for their attention.
Bill
Bill, stop bringing up your old girlfriend. Besides, I have it on good authority that she had one tooth.
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Hey guys thanks for your wealth of insights!
I don't send flirts it's a waste. I marked a bunch of favorites so I'd know who to come back to and write later.
One question I have is I hear there are a lot less 'serious' girls in Kiev. I've been to Kiev twice and each time I met a girl there, but one traveled from Krivoy Rog to meet me, and the other traveled from Poltava! I met a lot of nice girls in Kiev but they seemed to be either a lot more picky or not serious, or wanting me to buy them things at the local store. Actually two girls in Kiev seemed to genuinely be interested in me, but also wanted expensive dinners and presents, so I'm not sure if they were genuine or just wanted a nice time. I probably only spent $200 in gifts on my trip, but if I went again, I don't think I'd buy any girl a gift until she was my girlfriend. Also, this was 9 years ago, so I'm wondering how the dating/marriage landscape has changed in Kiev.
For those of you have been to Kiev in the last 2-3 years, have you actually met any really good girls there that were serious about finding a foreign husband? I would avoid Kiev altogether but I'm getting a lot of requests from girls in Kiev that are open to Skype video chat (and they're gorgeous) so I dunno maybe give Kiev girls a chance?!
Also has anyone heard of the agency cinderella1.com in Poltava and any comments good or bad about them? Their owners are American and seem legit.
Cheers!
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Hey guys thanks for your wealth of insights!
I don't send flirts it's a waste. I marked a bunch of favorites so I'd know who to come back to and write later.
One question I have is I hear there are a lot less 'serious' girls in Kiev. I've been to Kiev twice and each time I met a girl there, but one traveled from Krivoy Rog to meet me, and the other traveled from Poltava! I met a lot of nice girls in Kiev but they seemed to be either a lot more picky or not serious, or wanting me to buy them things at the local store. Actually two girls in Kiev seemed to genuinely be interested in me, but also wanted expensive dinners and presents, so I'm not sure if they were genuine or just wanted a nice time. I probably only spent $200 in gifts on my trip, but if I went again, I don't think I'd buy any girl a gift until she was my girlfriend. Also, this was 9 years ago, so I'm wondering how the dating/marriage landscape has changed in Kiev.
For those of you have been to Kiev in the last 2-3 years, have you actually met any really good girls there that were serious about finding a foreign husband? I would avoid Kiev altogether but I'm getting a lot of requests from girls in Kiev that are open to Skype video chat (and they're gorgeous) so I dunno maybe give Kiev girls a chance?!
Also has anyone heard of the agency cinderella1.com in Poltava and any comments good or bad about them? Their owners are American and seem legit.
Cheers!
Well, I can only speak from my experience. I met one classy, beautiful, almost perfect ten lady there. We dated for awhile and became intimate. It did not work out. I see her everytime I go back to Kiev. I know I need to stop that.
But anyway, I met another lady just last year, who was just a scammer looking to get over. I dumped her the same day we met.
I have to say that I have a different sense about Kiev. I actually believe it is among the more honest places to look for a wife. The women are usually professionals. They maybe picky but most have a real job. I have friends who have met "real" women there who have "real" jobs. One was actually quite wealthy and drove my friend around in her SUV for his entire visit. Nikolaev, Odessa? Those towns, on the other hand, have more sex workers, party girls, strippers, etc. who work in the system.
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w101: You have 2 basic choices. You can search the site and find the 20 ladies that most appeal to you.
Then start emailing 1 or more until you reach your limit of 1 or more with continued interest...... or you can just wait for the first 20 to email you. The best choice seems obvious, but that doesn't imply a lady can't be on both lists.
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I wouldn't discount Kiev or any other part of Ukraine. For example, my fiancé is from Zaporizhia. A good-genuinely-interested in you for who you are and not for what you can get them girl, will not ask you to buy her anything. If you are talking to any girl that mentions shopping or expensive restaurants, you need to quickly drop her like a hot rock. I'm not saying that you shouldn't buy her a nice gift or take her to a nice place to eat. You will have to determine who's worthy of these things. FSUW do NOT like greedy men (cheap and stingy) but it doesn't mean you should try to buy her love either. It's a delicate balance, we can give you the information, but you're the one that has to put it into practice.
There are lots of quality FSUW out there from all of the regions. Do your homework and find a good one. Think with the right head and don't get fooled by the pretty.
Tag
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Hey guys thanks for your wealth of insights!
I don't send flirts it's a waste. I marked a bunch of favorites so I'd know who to come back to and write later.
One question I have is I hear there are a lot less 'serious' girls in Kiev. I've been to Kiev twice and each time I met a girl there, but one traveled from Krivoy Rog to meet me, and the other traveled from Poltava! I met a lot of nice girls in Kiev but they seemed to be either a lot more picky or not serious, or wanting me to buy them things at the local store. Actually two girls in Kiev seemed to genuinely be interested in me, but also wanted expensive dinners and presents, so I'm not sure if they were genuine or just wanted a nice time. I probably only spent $200 in gifts on my trip, but if I went again, I don't think I'd buy any girl a gift until she was my girlfriend. Also, this was 9 years ago, so I'm wondering how the dating/marriage landscape has changed in Kiev.
For those of you have been to Kiev in the last 2-3 years, have you actually met any really good girls there that were serious about finding a foreign husband? I would avoid Kiev altogether but I'm getting a lot of requests from girls in Kiev that are open to Skype video chat (and they're gorgeous) so I dunno maybe give Kiev girls a chance?!
Also has anyone heard of the agency cinderella1.com in Poltava and any comments good or bad about them? Their owners are American and seem legit.
Cheers!
The site is garbage. If you look, they also own a "review" site. Where they trash a bunch of legitimate sites, promote another crap site and then talk about their own. They are a PPL, by the way. So they charge you by the letter and per minute for skype and phone calls.
I discovered a lady there who was lying about her occupation and I posted pics of her with her boyfriend. They claimed she was in "China" and had to wait for her return. We have been "waiting" ever since.
The lady is a model, one of their big earners.
http://vk.com/id120232647
Her occupation is supposed to be a "teacher". Exactly what or who does she "teach"? And of course as usual with every PPL site, you cannot talk to her on VK. "Friends", only. You have to stop pretending that Americans are not involved in the scam industry. The corporate greed culture in America has it claws deep into the scam industry in Ukraine. Anthony Volpe, the CMO for Social Discovery Ventures, just gave an interview in May about the scam infested crap site, AnastasiaDate. Look it up.
It is absolutely ridiculous.
If you are looking for an agency, I know of three;
marriagebynatali
dreamconnections
mordinson
There is a fourth, but me and my. . ."people" are in a heated discussion about it.
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If your plan is to visit one MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A BACKUP PLAN!!!
You knew I would jump on this, Beel
If you are going on a Visit one, and you have done due diligence -the only back up plan you should have in mind is places to visit..if you screw up and where to start contacting new ladies - it is quite wrong to have a lady(ies) 'in waiting'... They aren't daft ..
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I've been to Ukraine... I found a couple scammers as well :(
I don't think so. ML and I do our work behind a computer.
I am overwhelmed by 20 flirts and another 7-8 letters in 5 hours.
Exercise caution. Rarely do women contact men at first. Even if the site you're using is a monthly subscription, they try to keep their customers interested and if they make you feel like a king, you'll likely stay at a place you're king. Contact the ladies you're interested in and quickly move to Skype and the phone. Use other sites too.
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Where are you in Utah? I'm in SLC
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South Salt Lake City, Cottonwood Heights area. Lol! If you wanna do lunch I'm game :)
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Exercise caution. Rarely do women contact men at first. Even if the site you're using is a monthly subscription, they try to keep their customers interested and if they make you feel like a king, you'll likely stay at a place you're king. Contact the ladies you're interested in and quickly move to Skype and the phone. Use other sites too.
Billy,
This is, apparently, not your week for posting. I put up a nice profile on Elena's. I received over 40 expressions of interest and letters in the first three days alone. Many of the letters were from women that I was not interested in, but there were some that were true candidates.
As I said above, it is reflected by the profile you put up. If you have lots of pictures, then women will seek you out. I have not had my Elena's profile active for awhile. I still receive regular expressions of interest and emails. Originally I thought it was because they wanted to live in LA as I knew my ugly mug was nothing to write home about, but then I realized it was because I had taken care in how my profile appeared. It was apparent that I was looking for a good woman and capable of having a family.
For those reading this, you might want to watch the Walter Mitty movie. Early in the movie, Walter joins e-Harmony. He gets no expressions of interest. Later, after he has done all the things he does, women seek him out as desirable.
Food for thought.
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w101: Also, if you read the FSU women's forums, for a long time the ladies have been training each other to send out hundreds of emails to all the men on the sites, in the same fashion a few of the men here have done in the past.
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I received over 40 expressions of interest and letters in the first three days alone. Many of the letters were from women that I was not interested in, but there were some that were true candidates.
Go to Mamba or any free site that doesn't make money off you. You will not get the same results. Paid sites do this. Even American dating sites that you pay into do this. It ain't rocket science that when a man gets no mail, he loses interest and goes somewhere else. Paid sites often send men mail to keep them interested and even when you stop paying, you get mail.
This is, apparently, not your week for posting.
Why? I'm not ashamed of putting out the truth. If you really believe 40 women every three days per site you're on got the hots for you, that's your business but it ain't reality.
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Billy, please read my post again. I said the first thee days the profile was up there. There is a great amount of activity when you first sign up. Not every three days going forward.
I haven't been active on Elena's for awhile. For the same reason you would not be. I'm in a relationship.
Above you had commented that women don't seek out men. My own experience leads me to believe that you're wrong. I wrote to a couple of the women who contacted me. They were legit. The site didn't write the letters. They did. I had a nice profile, with nice pics and women contacted me. No big deal.
Tonight, in chat, we were sharing with one of the newbies some of the pics off Elena's. I went into my old, inactive account, and there were 23 new letters there. These were new letters of people who were looking for someone with my profile and found me interesting. Most of them were even women. :D
My profile says that I am in a relationship. But I would not be surprised if these women were using ML's scattershot approach.
While Elena's presents people to you, that fit your criteria, in regular emails, etc. (if you have an active profile) it does not generate the letters without the senders participation.
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I beg to differ that women don't seek men out. I am on both paid and free sites in the U.S. I have done online dating for a long time and I really know how to put up a good profile. I have U.S. women write me all the time and say my profile is funny, interesting etc. If I am constantly logging into a site (or just keep the page open) then that puts me near the top of most search lists when women do searches (searches are often ordered by most recent activity). It's not uncommon for me to get 5-7 flirts a day on a single U.S. site (admittedly 85% are girls I wouldn't date, but 15% are pretty good-looking, in fact I usually don't write girls in the U.S. - I let them flirt with me, then I respond). I've just never had 50 my first day lol.
When I first started out with online sites in the U.S., I didn't receive nearly as much attention. So, it is a skill. Many guys don't get many hits because they don't know how to set up a really interesting profile that also comes across as sincere and genuine.
Anywho, just FYI I can get 3 dates a week here in Utah, most of whom are fairly attractive. The problem is they are 33-43 y.o. divorcees with 2-5 kids (large families in Utah) who don't want to have any more kids, and I've never had kids so I want to have some. Most are also picky and choosy as hell once the fantasy wears off and they see that I'm just a normal albeit decent, gainfully employed guy. Yeah I get decent U.S. girls as gf's every now and then but in Utah, where most people marry young and then have a lot of kids, the divorcees my age tend to be bitter, wounded, scared of being hurt again (all understandable) and then pull all this entitlement shit out because most of the guys in Utah treat women really, really well (sometimes too well IMHO) so they just take decency for granted, and many don't appreciate it at all. Not to mention 60% are at least somewhat overweight, which makes the attractive ones feel even more entitled since they're rarer and thus chased that much harder. So that's why I'm giving Ukraine another shot. I had a lot of fun in Kiev.
And just one other observation: there are girls in the Ukraine who aren't serious about marriage, but will let you take them to a fancy restaurant. Plenty of girls like that in the U.S.A. as well.
Glad I got that off my chest. Ha!
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My own experience leads me to believe that you're wrong.
Get more experience. Go to Mamba.ru. There are more FSU women and active online women there than at any site. Set up the best profile you know how in any city of the world you want. At Mamba, you can see who's looking at your profile. Women rarely will search and view profiles and it's even rarer they write the man first.
People have said many good things about Elena's models and some got beat up for saying something bad about them. I've had guys PM me saying they've learned things aren't all cool there. I don't doubt they use the same techniques as American dating sites with recurring monthly memberships fees when they throw out a few teasing letters. Most men who come to this forum do not find an FSU wife. They come excited for a few days or weeks but fade away because it's not that easy to find women who are thrilled with them. If all they had to do is make a new high quality profile every few days to get 40 women writing them, they'd stay excited. Anybody else got 40 women writing them in a few days? Write back every woman who wrote you and see if they will send you a detailed personal letter second letter answering your every question.
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Get more experience. Go to Mamba.ru. There are more FSU women and active online women there than at any site. Set up the best profile you know how in any city of the world you want. At Mamba, you can see who's looking at your profile. Women rarely will search and view profiles and it's even rarer they write the man first.
People have said many good things about Elena's models and some got beat up for saying something bad about them. I've had guys PM me saying they've learned things aren't all cool there. I don't doubt they use the same techniques as American dating sites with recurring monthly memberships fees when they throw out a few teasing letters. Most men who come to this forum do not find an FSU wife. They come excited for a few days or weeks but fade away because it's not that easy to find women who are thrilled with them. If all they had to do is make a new high quality profile every few days to get 40 women writing them, they'd stay excited. Anybody else got 40 women writing them in a few days? Write back every woman who wrote you and see if they will send you a detailed personal letter second letter answering your every question.
Why would I want more experience? My quest was successful. I'm telling what I experienced and you're telling me I'm wrong. I'm telling you that Elena's doesn't write letters for their members. You are trying to tell me that they do.
If we had Elena Petrova on here and she were responding, she'd tell you that you don't know what you're talking about with respect to her site.
I have no idea what Mamba.ru does. I don't care. I don't want to be a member there. My experience is not with Mamba.
I don't care what your opinion is of Elena's. I don't care that you want to trash the site because someone says you're wrong. My attempt was to tell a newbie what my experience was, not what yours was with Mamba.
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While many Russian and Ukrainian women use Facebook, the most popular social media site in Eastern Europe is VKontakte. If it looks a lot like Facebook, that is because Pavel Durov, the founder, appropriated software from Facebook to start the company. (Pavel was stripped of his company a couple of years ago by Kremlin machinations so that Russia had control over the content of the premier social website operating in the country.)
You can find it on www.vk.com
Sometimes you will hear of another social website operating in Eastern Europe. It is www.Odnoklassniki.ru. It translates, I think, into 'Classmates'. It is not as popular as VK. And none of my fiancee's friends use it. I have not heard of any of the forum users having success interacting with women on Odnoklassniki.
Good luck on your search.
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You knew I would jump on this, Beel
If you are going on a Visit one, and you have done due diligence -the only back up plan you should have in mind is places to visit..if you screw up and where to start contacting new ladies - it is quite wrong to have a lady(ies) 'in waiting'... They aren't daft ..
Moby,
I disagree on several levels.
I've written extensively on this and don't recommend having ladies in
waiting. That's why on a visit many trip I say to write one letter or at
the most two. On a visit one trip, you've eliminated every other girl to
visit one (that's where the name comes from) I don't recommend going
to your second option because you want a first place girl not a second place
girl and only a desperate girl would want to be sloppy seconds.
Regardless of your efforts before meeting in person it frequently doesn't
work out. Due diligence is the effort you make after meeting in person
and during subsequent trips to ensure you don't marry a girl that you
don't know. It's not the efforts you make with your penpal before you
get on a plane, that's called sifting and screening.
Telling Americans, Australians and Canadians that if there isn't mutual
chemistry after meeting a girl that they must now become strictly tourists
is not sound advice. It's too far, too expensive and too difficult to do.
However,there is nothing wrong with getting on Mamba and inviting a
number of ladies to tea to see if you might have chemistry. That's how I
met Angel Eyes.
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Bill, stop bringing up your old girlfriend. Besides, I have it on good authority that she had one tooth.
You should have seen her eat corn on the cob. Even the busiest beaver would have
been jealous ;D
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Get more experience. Go to Mamba.ru.
Read the entire post before you respond to it.
Jone is in a relationship with a FSUW hottie.
Why would you tell him to go get more experience?
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My profile says that I am in a relationship. But I would not be surprised if these women were using ML's scattershot approach.
Jone, I don't think scatttershot is a valid description of anything I have described about the way to go about a WMVM trip.
Also, I don't think it is very nice to keep a profile somewhere that women can see and respond to, even when you think it is inactive. Get rid of those profiles completely.
Same goes for women. Very nasty to keep up profiles where legitimate persons contact you in good faith.
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Our Norwegian friend Northkape gives top marks to this website. I value his judgement very highly because he has spent a lot of time on this journey and uses a very precise way of going about it.
Here is what he previously said:
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"Much better is freeukrainianwomen.com They are weeding out most fake profiles before listing them
and if someone slips through, they are usually removed within a day or two.
It is in my opinion the best dating site for finding a Ukraine woman on the Internet today.
A lot of serious women, and you can set up a very good profile with lots of photos.
And they have online translation with back-translating, using google translate, + many more features..
No other site has given me more results, per hour spent on correspondence."
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If I were doing a search today, I would head to this site first.
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Jone, I don't think scatttershot is a valid description of anything I have described about the way to go about a WMVM trip.
Also, I don't think it is very nice to keep a profile somewhere that women can see and respond to, even when you think it is inactive. Get rid of those profiles completely.
Same goes for women. Very nasty to keep up profiles where legitimate persons contact you in good faith.
ML,
I did not mean to diminish your teachings on meeting women. Actually I am kind of in awe of what you did, when you did it. It bears review and copying.
As to keeping my profile up, I attempted to remove it. But then I thought about it and changed it to how it now reads. I said I was in a relationship. If greedy little eyes go on Elena's, she will be satisfied to know that my profile says exactly what she wants it to say.
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ML,
I did not mean to diminish your teachings on meeting women. Actually I am kind of in awe of what you did, when you did it. It bears review and copying.
OK, being in awe . . . that's much better.
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As to keeping my profile up, I attempted to remove it. But then I thought about it and changed it to how it now reads. I said I was in a relationship. If greedy little eyes go on Elena's, she will be satisfied to know that my profile says exactly what she wants it to say.
But on the other hand . . . why keep it up at all?
Let's suppose your current relationship does sour.
Then you could put up a completely new profile and be the ideal candidate . . . one that is NEW.
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I'm telling you that Elena's doesn't write letters for their members. You are trying to tell me that they do.
I didn't say the agency is writing letters but they can throw it out for the ladies. Some agencies actually get permission from ladies to throw out their introductory letters to tons of men but don't be fooled and get a big ego.
We've had small agency owners come here saying they've become feeder agencies to larger agencies and supply them with their best profiles. Sometimes these larger agencies tell their feeder agencies their ladies aren't active enough and they are considering severing business ties. This stuff has been told on the forum from people in the business. That puts pressure on feeding agencies to perform even if the ladies aren't performing. Elena's Models is big and they can't control all their feeders but they can plant a seed in their heads. How do their feeders get paid? If none of their ladies write letters, do they get paid at all? Maybe Elena can tell us how she pays those who supply profiles to her site? If I supply a hundred profiles to her site and none of the ladies perform, will she still pay me? I doubt it.
I'm telling what I experienced and you're telling me I'm wrong.
We can beat our drums all day but there is a better way for you to understand how FSU women act on dating sites and possible make some money. Remember the time you and a few guys thought I wasn't married and I offered, for money, to take anybody to city hall and have them tell you my marriage is on the books? Money solves lots of problems. Let's bet $1000. You go to Mamba, a free site that doesn't make money off men, and create the best profile you can to attract girls. List yourself in any city of the world and you can even use photos of another man if that helps you better to win. That place is more active than Elena's models and if you can get 40 women to initiate contact with you in 3 days, you win $1000. If not, I win. Make the profile and supply the user name and password so anybody here can check the messages in the profile.
Jone, FSU women rarely contact men first. FSU women rarely waste their time to search for men on a site. They barely have enough time to read and respond to the men already writing them.
Read the entire post before you respond to it.
Jone is in a relationship with a FSUW hottie.
Why would you tell him to go get more experience?
A guy could be married to a hottie he met on AnastasiaDate. That doesn't mean he's experienced. He may have been fooled many times by the agency before he got results. Because a guy's in a relationship doesn't mean he has a grasp of what he was dealing with prior.
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One issue I see with Mamba is girls will only be searching locally, whereas with freeukrainianwomen.com and similar (legit) sites, women are searching for men all over the world, and vice versa. So, the pool of women looking at a profile is ipso facto going to be much smaller. But maybe list your profile in a large city like St. Petersburg and you'll still get some hits? I dunno maybe I'll try :)
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Billy,
Quite honestly it is you who doesn't even pass the first grade.
Elena's does not have feeder agencies. You claim to know their business model and, obviously, you don't.
You keep on talking about your wealth of experience and all you do is look silly.
Duh.
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freeukrainianwomen.com and similar (legit) sites,
Freeukrainianwomen isn't exactly free and a man is limited in what he can do. I've signed up for free on American sites called Horny Cougars and Penitentiary Playmates. Just kidding. Even with a basic profile, women write me letters. Most didn't interest me but when one did, I couldn't communicate with her so I had to sign up. That's when I learned how these American sites hook men. I got played. I admit it but I learn quickly. Those sites aren't pay to play like AnastasiaDate but to get men to pay for more than a month, they have to keep them interested. Most people will leave a site after a month if they aren't getting results. Look how many dating sites come and go? I know quite a few marriage agencies that have folded up. Many refused to play men.
Anybody can talk a good talk in a profile but truth is we aren't compatible with over 95% of the women out there no matter what you and they say in their profiles. I post a few photos of myself and generic description when creating a profile. If a woman likes my photo and I hers, we begin to learn about each other and forget about what is said in the profile.
One issue I see with Mamba is girls will only be searching locally,
True but FSU women are FSU women and on the average, they don't make first contact. It's even rare for the ugly ones to make first contact. So if a guy put his profile in a large city, he will not have a lot of first contact from women if any.
BTW, Freeukrainianwomen doesn't agree with you and says Eastern European women are shy to make first contact and recommends the men to do it first. They are right about that.
it is you who doesn't even pass the first grade.
It's hard to beat a first grader, isn't it? Since Jone won't put his money where his mouth is, will somebody else step up for him? I'll bet any guy to put up a profile on Mamba and prove that it's possible to get 40 FSU women to contact him in 3 days. It's hard for a guy to cheat on this experiment so it's easy money for me.
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So I'm actively chatting on freeukrainianwomen.com with about 6 girls now. I really can't handle any more. These are all girls that either contacted me first or sent me a letter/flirt after I "favorited" them (about 3/4 I didn't even favorite). They are responding to specific questions and laughing at my dumb jokes via chat, so no cut and paste responses from them. I friended one on FB and added 3 to Skype, although I've yet to do a video chat (it's only been a couple days), but so far most of the girls seem legit. One girl says she only writes letters through the site which makes me think she may be a scammer. I wrote a response saying I need more than letters to be induced to visit a lady. We'll see if she responds or disappears.
One thing I'll say about Elena's models. Last year I tried that site out for a couple months. I did get 2 Russian girls to come to Utah and visit me. Really they were already planning on coming anyway. The girl contacted me and said it was her dream to visit the Grand Canyon and all the parks in Utah where I live. Also she said she wanted an American husband. She bought her own ticket to Utah and brought a RW friend with her, so she wouldn't be scared that I or some other American would rape her. LOL! But I understand where she's coming from, totally. The girls were both nice and we had a fun 2 weeks together. Too bad she was a selfish and self-centered (albeit very cute) girl so not for me. Nice girl otherwise though.
BUT I did notice on EM I got a LOT of indicators of interest, and then I'd write the girls and half wouldn't even respond. So that leads me to believe that maybe some of these IOIs or flirts or whatever they were were fake. But I don't know for sure. I just know that so far on this new site, if a girl sends me a flirt, and then I write her, she's pretty much always written back. And I might add this new site costs quite a bit less than Elena's models.
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BillyB, I think you're trying to prove that the girls on sites like EM and freeukrainianwomen.com are fakes if they contact men first, because most 'run of the mill' women on a site like mamba would (in your experience) not contact a guy first, is that right? Problem is, the mindset of a woman willing to relocate and just a normal FSUW girl on mamba are not one and the same. So I just can't see your experiment proving anything. But I might join mamba anyway just to see what it's like, and I'll happily share my experiences if/when I do.
What I think will prove something is if I am able to video chat with some of these girls who contacted me first. The girls I've exchanged letters with didn't seem like scammers because they weren't sending me form letters. But they could just be good scammers. Stay tuned we'll see what happens!
Maybe I'm biased because I had a Russian girl contact me on EM last year and then come out and visit. That could have been a fluke but maybe I'm biased because of it.
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Freeukrainianwomen isn't exactly free and a man is limited in what he can do. I've signed up for free on American sites called Horny Cougars and Penitentiary Playmates. Just kidding. Even with a basic profile, women write me letters. Most didn't interest me but when one did, I couldn't communicate with her so I had to sign up. That's when I learned how these American sites hook men. I got played. I admit it but I learn quickly. Those sites aren't pay to play like AnastasiaDate but to get men to pay for more than a month, they have to keep them interested. Most people will leave a site after a month if they aren't getting results. Look how many dating sites come and go? I know quite a few marriage agencies that have folded up. Many refused to play men.
Anybody can talk a good talk in a profile but truth is we aren't compatible with over 95% of the women out there no matter what you and they say in their profiles. I post a few photos of myself and generic description when creating a profile. If a woman likes my photo and I hers, we begin to learn about each other and forget about what is said in the profile.
True but FSU women are FSU women and on the average, they don't make first contact. It's even rare for the ugly ones to make first contact. So if a guy put his profile in a large city, he will not have a lot of first contact from women if any.
BTW, Freeukrainianwomen doesn't agree with you and says Eastern European women are shy to make first contact and recommends the men to do it first. They are right about that.
It's hard to beat a first grader, isn't it? Since Jone won't put his money where his mouth is, will somebody else step up for him? I'll bet any guy to put up a profile on Mamba and prove that it's possible to get 40 FSU women to contact him in 3 days. It's hard for a guy to cheat on this experiment so it's easy money for me.
Who gives a flying f about Mamba?
You have been proved wrong by three members of the forum. I have never made ANY assertions about Mamba. It is you who are making them about Elena's and don't know what you're talking about.
Now you are trying to dodge the bullet when you made that long post about the feeder organizations that were submitting to Elena's ..... WHEN THERE AREN'T ANY! You made that assertion. Now back it up with a wager. You wager that Elena's gets its ladies from agencies. I wager that Elena's doesn't get their ladies from agencies. You stated above that they did. Put your money where your mouth is.
My original interaction with the op was to let him know that if he puts up a good profile, he will hear from women. As I did.
You have tried to bend my response three times, telling me what I experienced wasn't true. And you have intentionally misquoted me to make your points.
Get a grip!
As an aside, I ignored Mamba because I considered it specialized for the local community, where, I'm sure women do not wish to look too forward to the men they wish to meet. I would not be surprised if women do not make the first move on this particular website. People like Bill have had success using Mamba. I congratulate him and any others. It was not for me.
*********************************
I asked my fiancee tonight about Mamba. She told me that women who use Mamba are looking for love in their own cities. Not internationally.
We look forward to seeing you back in the first grade again next year, Billy.
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Now you are trying to dodge the bullet when you made that long post about the feeder organizations that were submitting to Elena's ..... WHEN THERE AREN'T ANY! You made that assertion. Now back it up with a wager. You wager that Elena's gets its ladies from agencies. I wager that Elena's doesn't get their ladies from agencies. You stated above that they did. Put your money where your mouth is.
Turboguy is a senior member here and is calm and stable. He owns a business and has his own money so he doesn't need ours. He doesn't hate me and I don't think he hates you. He also found his wife on there so he's not hating on Elena's. He's trustworthy enough for both of us to wire a $1000 and he can distribute it to the winner.
To be clear, I say Elena's models use feeder agencies so don't make the mistake I said they exclusively use feeder agencies. Any woman can sign up on their site by themselves. You say they don't use feeder agencies at all. I'm not the only one that needs to provide proof. You need to explain how an agency out of Australia gets profiles from women all over the FSU and who their affiliates, partners, and subsidiaries are that you're not allowed to sue according to their disclaimer. I will also explain who those partners are.
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What happened to just helping the original poster with his question? Guys let's set our egos down for a minute and get back to helping the newer guys find a good quality FSUW.
WRF, I'm glad to hear you're having some success already with contacting the ladies. Yes the one that said she'd only communicate thru the site sounds like a scammer. A girl that's genuine and truly interested will always want to move the conversation off site and to Skype. Don't fall for the I can't Skype BS either. Almost all FSUW have access to some sort of video camera either by their phones on computer. There is also the WhatsApp and Viber. Sounds like you're on pace my friend. Be sure about what you want and more importantly that you're both on the same page of life with goals and aspirations.
Tag
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What happened to just helping the original poster with his question? Guys let's set our egos down for a minute and get back to helping the newer guys find a good quality FSUW.
We've remained on topic. The OP said in his first post he's overwhelmed by 20 flirts and another 7-8 letters in 5 hours from a recommended site. This stuff isn't real no matter how good a profile is and when I said this stuff happens on Elena's Models some long time posters are probably unhappy believing most of that attention they've received isn't real. Even if Jone doesn't want to put $1000 in my pocket, I will later present my evidence for free for those who are new in this endeavor and need a better understanding of how agencies work so they can get away from fantasy and deal in reality. I'm not saying Elena's models is unethical and they are 100 times better than AnastasiaDate but they do deal with other smaller agencies that may or may not alter their lady's behavior.
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Thanks guys! Yeah I think I'm mostly wise to the scams, but these girls can get pretty creative so you never know what they might try and pull next. If a girl gives me her skype address or VK or Facebook, that or phone #, that goes a long ways towards setting my mind at ease.
I gotta tell you, IMHO the average lady 30-40 years old in the U.S. is a 5 or 6. Is it just me or does the 'average' FSUW seem more like a 7.5 or 8? I know some pics are photo-shopped but when I was in Kiev it was like holy shit every 40 feet on the sidewalk I'd pass a model-quality lady.
I'm not all about the looks, but it's rare for me to feel attracted to a woman who is 20 lbs. or more overweight. I still look for intelligence, humor, kindness, very much so. My inner suspicion is this is how most if not all men are wired, to want a physically attractive lady, even if they don't admit it. Not a supermodel, just moderately fit and feminine. What do you guys think?
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So I just heard from the suspected "scammer" girl. She says she's ok with video chat, but she's shy at first because her English is bad. Not saying she's not a scammer, but she also wrote me a detailed letter answering all my questions too, so who knows she might be legit, we'll see. I'm smart enough to know never to send a lady money, no matter how good her pics look.
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IMHO from what I've seen so far, having experience with both sites, I had a ton of flakes on EM although I did meet some nice ladies. A much larger percentage of the women on freeukrainianwomen.com seem legit as I've had conversations with a dozen where it was actual interaction and they didn't set off my scam alert (except for one). Also fuw.com deleted one suspicious profile in my favorites list. So I suspect they are better at weeding out fake/scammer profiles than EM. There is a 'complain' button at the top right of every message I read, so I'm guessing many suspicious women get complained on and weeded out.
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I just wanted to clarify some info I read in this thread...
EM does use the profiles from other agencies....How do I know? I have two friends here that have small dating/marriage agencies. They use EM's platform. For a small agency to build a platform is not cost effective.
About letter writing....There are signs posted all over the poles here with companies looking for people to write letters...It's a job
Also I know a woman here that writes letters for her daughters. She wants a better future for them and is genuine about helping her daughters find a better life with a foreign man...She gets plenty promises but no man ever comes to meet them. I must say the daughters are smoking hot...go figure. Also I know many women here that are professional and want to meet a "good man" but they are in there 40's and 50's which kinda puts them out of the "market"
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OSO can you message me how to contact these two ladies? I just might actually visit them :) I plan on a trip in 6-8 weeks. Where do they live?
Also, you said: "There are signs posted all over the poles here with companies looking for people to write letters...It's a job"
Sorry I don't know how to do the quote within a window.
Do you mean people are hired to write letters for fake profiles? Or help ladies who can't speak English write letters? I find it hard to believe they'd advertise on this site for scam letter writing?
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I will talk to the mother for you...Your age could be a factor.
About the letter writing, Also understanding that Russian language doesn't always translate to English well. But agencies look for letter writers...Fake profiles? I would guess that "letter writers" aren't writing about themselves. Igor could be writing if you know what I mean.
Also do your homework...wash them through the "blacklist" and check there ISP. Finding someone to write you is a piece of cake. Making sure the person who is writing is who they say they are....It is part of the process. When you learn how to check out a lady it will be simple. One thing I found out googling them, change your browser to .ru or .ua. You will be amazed!! and then write there name in native alphabet WOW!
Also most of the people here that are younger than 30-35 all speak English, unless they live under a rock.
Another thing when writing them, get very blunt early in your letter. Americans speak "around the bush" ask very simple direct questions. They use English different than we do. Try asking "what is your target" in relationship and future. My guess is you will get a very real answer that is most likely to be honest
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I live in Kyiv. The studies here show that the demographics are the young people moving to Odessa, and the older ones wanting to leave Ukraine. I am not saying that you can not meet great women in Kyiv...I have no problems in meeting young women here...They are everywhere. I am a western man in his 50's and it makes me a big target. I tell people if you want to meet one of these ladies, come here for a vacation. And treat it like a vacation....make sure that on your list of your destinations is the metro in Kyiv...and ride all day for less than .50. Friday night or anytime Saturday are the best...
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Cool, thanks OSO. You can tell the Mom I live in Utah, don't smoke, don't drink, 4 year university degree, have an above-average paying job (but not wealthy). I'll try to figure out how PM you a pic lol. But if they are under 24 then they may be too young for me!
Good advice - is there a link you can point me to so I can find out how to search blacklists and check out these girls? Thanks for your help!
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http://www.inter-mariage.com/en/scamlist.phphttp:
http://www.womenrussia.com/blacklist.htm
www.russian-dating-scams.com/black_lists/black_lists.htm
there are many...somewhere there is a master blacklist
Also learn to check ISP's
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Cool, thanks OSO. You can tell the Mom I live in Utah, don't smoke, don't drink, 4 year university degree, have an above-average paying job (but not wealthy). I'll try to figure out how PM you a pic lol. But if they are under 24 then they may be too young for me!
Good advice - is there a link you can point me to so I can find out how to search blacklists and check out these girls? Thanks for your help!
I am not bashing you here. I am giving you some good personal tips to help in catching the "right fish"
and when you catch the right fish she will rock your world. The words amazing and incredible won't come close to describing her :)
What ever you do don't boast....tell them you have higher education. Tell them you have a steady job and a home. Don't tell them you are a CEO of a fortune 500 company. an IQ of 185, live in a million dollar home with a Ferrari for every day of the week. Even if that is who you are. Kinda keep things a mystery for a while. Don't EVER lie or peddle BS. These women have have a sixth sense and are human lie detectors. Wear your heart on your sleeve.
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Great thanks for all the advice. I am a sponge right now.
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Moby,
I disagree on several levels.
I've written extensively on this and don't recommend having ladies in
waiting. That's why on a visit many trip I say to write one letter or at
the most two. On a visit one trip, you've eliminated every other girl to
visit one (that's where the name comes from) I don't recommend going
to your second option because you want a first place girl not a second place
girl and only a desperate girl would want to be sloppy seconds.
Regardless of your efforts before meeting in person it frequently doesn't
work out. Due diligence is the effort you make after meeting in person
and during subsequent trips to ensure you don't marry a girl that you
don't know. It's not the efforts you make with your penpal before you
get on a plane, that's called sifting and screening.
Telling Americans, Australians and Canadians that if there isn't mutual
chemistry after meeting a girl that they must now become strictly tourists
is not sound advice. It's too far, too expensive and too difficult to do.
However,there is nothing wrong with getting on Mamba and inviting a
number of ladies to tea to see if you might have chemistry. That's how I
met Angel Eyes.
Hi Beel,
thanks for explaining
I also base my opinion on experience - you'll remember my - then - RU wife turned down guys who were clearly on VM trips - regarding them as 'not serious'.
Kransnoyarsk, Siberia was a ten hour flying time - with a not inconsiderable layover and not cheap ;D
Sochi is only 5 hours flying time- via Istanbul or 6.4 via Moscow, but both involved nearly 24 hours travel, door to door - including hanging around airports - so I can appreciate the time / expense factor, but having tried VM - the stress factor involving 'speed dating' and VO, I, personally found the latter more productive.
I read your close call with AE and the previous date persistently contacting you and just don't didn't need that sort of stress ;D
With modern facilities for comms there is much we can establish before meeting for real
To each his own
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Hi Beel,
thanks for explaining
Sure, I wanted to explain to you and also the lurkers/newbies as well.
I also base my opinion on experience - you'll remember my - then - RU wife turned down guys who were clearly on VM trips - regarding them as 'not serious'.
Kransnoyarsk, Siberia was a ten hour flying time - with a not inconsiderable layover and not cheap ;D
Sochi is only 5 hours flying time- via Istanbul or 6.4 via Moscow, but both involved nearly 24 hours travel, door to door - including hanging around airports - so I can appreciate the time / expense factor, but having tried VM - the stress factor involving 'speed dating' and VO, I, personally found the latter more productive.
In my opinion a visit many trip is to meet several girls for tea to see if you have
chemistry before wasting any more of your or their time. The goal being to find
the girl that you come back soon for a visit one trip. Also I recommend never
dating a girl a second time unless she is an excellent candidate for Mrs_________
your name here.
Once you find your ___________ Mrs your name here then you spend your
time exclusively with her.
I also base my opinion on experience - you'll remember my - then - RU wife turned down guys who were clearly on VM trips - regarding them as 'not serious'.
Kransnoyarsk, Siberia was a ten hour flying time - with a not inconsiderable layover and not cheap ;D
Sochi is only 5 hours flying time- via Istanbul or 6.4 via Moscow, but both involved nearly 24 hours travel, door to door - including hanging around airports - so I can appreciate the time / expense factor, but having tried VM - the stress factor involving 'speed dating' and VO, I, personally found the latter more productive.
While we could debate the benefits of VM or VO my recommendation is that
guys who visit only one have a back up plan, with the backup plan of going
on Mamba or a dating site and meeting additional girls if the original plan
falls apart.
but having tried VM - the stress factor involving 'speed dating' and VO, I, personally found the latter more productive.
I read your close call with AE and the previous date persistently contacting you and just don't didn't need that sort of stress ;D
Believe me, anyone who spends months getting to know a girl on Skype
and letters and phone calls will be very stressed if the whole thing goes
down the tubes on day two.
The close call with Angel Eyes was that I originally went to Russia to meet
Green Eyed Girl (GEG) wovo. Things didn't work out and we broke up.
Then GEG had second thoughts and called me telling me she wanted to F#&K me.
Being a flaming heterosexual male I was tempted, but in the end pursued Angel
Eyes exclusively. The moral to my story is that I had a backup plan if things
didn't work out. I would ask out various girls who I never contacted before and
ask them to meet for tea and in the end met my wife.
If I had moped around going to various museums and being a tourist I wouldn't
have met the girl of my dreams.
Udachi!
Bill
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Hey guys thanks for your wealth of insights!
I don't send flirts it's a waste. I marked a bunch of favorites so I'd know who to come back to and write later.
One question I have is I hear there are a lot less 'serious' girls in Kiev. I've been to Kiev twice and each time I met a girl there, but one traveled from Krivoy Rog to meet me, and the other traveled from Poltava! I met a lot of nice girls in Kiev but they seemed to be either a lot more picky or not serious, or wanting me to buy them things at the local store. Actually two girls in Kiev seemed to genuinely be interested in me, but also wanted expensive dinners and presents, so I'm not sure if they were genuine or just wanted a nice time. I probably only spent $200 in gifts on my trip, but if I went again, I don't think I'd buy any girl a gift until she was my girlfriend. Also, this was 9 years ago, so I'm wondering how the dating/marriage landscape has changed in Kiev.
Cheers!
Let me ask you a simple question. When you go out on a date with an American woman, do you ask her to take a bus to a Burger King for a dinner date?
Now, a more serious question. What do you expect from these ladies in Ukraine? Do you think they are looking for someone to rescue them?
Really, it would help if you explain what are your expectations. ;)
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I will talk to the mother for you...Your age could be a factor.
Say it ain't so!!
All the young Ukrainian girls between 20 and 25 would do anything to marry an American who is 45 to 55. It is all over their agencies. They would even settle for an 80 yo man. ;)
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Hi Muzh,
Here is a long answer to your questions, I hope you don't mind if I reminisce a bit. Or a lot haha.
Interesting questions. When I visited Kiev (twice) I actually didn't mind taking the girls out to expensive dinners. I like expensive dinners myself :) Having them take me to a store and talking me into buying them a dress, however, was a bit off-putting. BUT I thought to myself "you know, these girls don't have a lot of money, so what if I buy them a dress? They need the $30 much more than I". Then later I learned about scams where girls do this with men, then come back the next day, return the dress and keep the cash. I have no idea if this is what the ladies did. But when I learned this, and heard about scams, it made me wonder, although I didn't care at the time. I really don't care about losing $30, but I just want to make sure the girl really likes me and is not just using me. And if I buy her a dress, I sure as hell don't want her returning it for cash.
There was one girl I met (Luda) who at the end of every other date (out of 6 or 7 while I was there) stopped by a store and wanted me to buy her boots, or a hat, etc. I suppose I bought her $150 or so in clothes over a week's time. Also on her profile it said she spoke ok English (level 3 out of 5) but then when I met her she had brought a translator along and I paid $15 an hour, and it turned out she knew almost no English, maybe level 1. The funny thing was even though she knew I was seeing other girls to find the right girl (this was a VM trip) she grabbed my camera from me once and got genuinely jealous when she saw pictures of me with other girls. But at the end of the trip she asked for money for English lessons that a local professor teaches so I gave her $300 (I figured she was my girlfriend and this point and that things would really go somewhere, so she'd need to learn English to come to America right?) Luda and I went out every night (she was my main interest). She was very kind and did nice things for me, bought me a couple small presents of her own, cooked for me once. She seemed to like holding hands and hugging but was shy to kiss, maybe because the translator was there. After the trip was over we talked on the phone a few times and she always seemed to be very excited to hear from me. But then the crash of 2008 happened and I was hard up for a couple years, so I never got to see her again. I bet on the trip I bought her $200 in gifts and of course gave her $300 CASH for the lessons.
To this day I don't know if she really liked me but was just high maintenance, or whether she was a very very good professional dater/scammer. I'm guessing she really liked me but also had learned that she could get American men to buy nice things for her. I also noticed that in the week I was there she wore the same shoes the whole time, only wore two different pants, and wore the same shirt more than once. As in, wore one shirt Monday, another shirt Tuesday, the Monday shirt on Wednesday, and the Tuesday shirt on Thursday. So I felt for her as I figured she didn't have a lot of clothes! Also she was drop-dead gorgeous. Kind of like a nice girl next door who could be a pro model but wasn't.
I met two other girls in Kiev that I really liked. On a prior trip (a 'visit one' trip after a few months of correspondence) I stayed with a girl for a week and things were very intimate physically. She was very frugal and never asked me to spend money on her, and she took care of me, cooked for me a couple times, bought me a couple small gifts, and even made arrangements for a train ticket when we visited her home town of Krivoy Rog and she also helped book an inexpensive but decent flat for me ($80 a night not bad for Kiev). But of course I still treated her well and took her to nice dinners and an opera. She was somewhat clingy but in retrospect she was a really nice lady and she told me eventually (after my trip) that she loved me. I could have married her. She was a kind sweet soul.
On my 2nd trip (VM trip) there was another girl who visited Kiev from Poltava. I had sent her $100 so she could travel to Kiev and see me while I was there. I know I know, I was too trusting! But she was the real deal and actually showed up. She spoke English well and her voice was a little weird, but my was she lovely. By lovely I mean damn she was a super hot blonde. It was pretty apparent that I could have slept with her. There was a situation where that could have happened, but I didn't because I was more into high-maintenance Luda. In retrospect, I think I should have gone for this girl instead but oh well. She was also very jealous of the fact that I was seeing other girls, and it was clear she wanted me all to herself.
There were other girls I met of course but these were the 3 I cared about.
What I learned from this is 1) Ukrainian women are gorgeous and can be very sweet and feminine, 2) they get jealous pretty easily, even if it is the first time they meet you and it's understood that I'm on a trip trying to meet several women so as to narrow things down to one. 3) Ukrainian women take very good care of a man they like, much better than I've EVER had an American woman take care of me. 4) Some Ukrainian women just want true love and a happy family, and don't care about materialistic things so long as there is enough money for stability, while others have no problem using a man to buy them all sorts of nice things.
After my 2nd trip I read a lot more about scams and it made me wonder whether my high-maintenance girl Luda was scamming me or just was high-maintenance. What do you guys think?
Anyhow, based on the behavior of the other two women, who never asked me to buy them fancy things, (I still took them to nice dinners, and paid for everything for them while I was there) I preferred the other women because I was sure they liked me for me and not for my wallet.
So what is a good man do if he was in Ukraine, and it was the first time meeting a girl, and at the end of the first date she took him to a shop and wanted him to buy her some boots? How is the best way to handle this? Is this girl definitely a pro scammer, or is there a chance she really likes me but also really needs some boots because she's dirt poor and winter is coming, and she knows it's no big deal for me to buy them? How to respond?
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So what is a good man do if he was in Ukraine, and it was the first time meeting a girl, and at the end of the first date she took him to a shop and wanted him to buy her some boots? How is the best way to handle this? Is this girl definitely a pro scammer, or is there a chance she really likes me but also really needs some boots because she's dirt poor and winter is coming, and she knows it's no big deal for me to buy them? How to respond?
wrf101
It sounds like you found a batch of pro daters. No good girl will ask you
to buy her anything more than a taxi ride home after a date and usually
they will take the bus. If a Western girl asked you to buy her a pair of
boots you would tell her to get off the crack pipe. It's the same thing
with Eastern girls.
If a girl asks for a present after a date dump her on the spot.
Luckily you are here at the forum and there is a plethora of information
here.
start here
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0
and then read the free ebook here
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=ezportal;sa=page;p=48
As you do your research you will have questions. Write them down and
keep going. Once you get a few questions lined up you can use the
search function or start a thread with your questions. When you ask
questions you will get a bunch of advice. Some of the advice will be
very good and other advice won't be as good.
Whatever you do don't get offended. Nobody knows you here so they shouldn't be able to offend you. Your job is to sort through the advice
and take the good stuff and ignore the rest.
Udachi!
Bill
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I just wanted to clarify some info I read in this thread...
EM does use the profiles from other agencies....How do I know? I have two friends here that have small dating/marriage agencies.
Whoa!!! What are you doing? You want to get crucified with me? Do you want to be told 3 people disagree with you, you're having a bad week posting, and you got the wit of a kid that flunked first grade?
I don't know what it is with Elena's Models, but when someone comes out and says something isn't right about them, some people on forums go on attack hurling insults. I've seen this over the many years I've been on the forum and it never fails. I've had guys PM'ing me about things that weren't right and didn't want to get beat up like the other guys who shared their experiences in the open. Why do people vigorously defend Elena's Models as if it was their own child? Is it because they used the site and if anybody had an idea they may have traded love letters with Ivan, the employee of the month, it would shame them? I guess they feel it's better to shut up those that question Elena's Models instead of questioning Elena's Models themselves.
Oso, thanks for sharing your experience but I wish you exercised patience and watch how this would play out. Jone hasn't posted in a while and he's probably doing some research and he's not liking the answers. Most likely in the end he'll thank you for saving him money but I don't want his apology. I wanted his money. If he was a gentleman and said "BillyB, I disagree with your opinion on Elena's Models business model but why do you think the way you do?", I would then give him everything, without a wager, that I'm going to give tomorrow and get people educated on how big agencies work. I say tomorrow because I'd like to give Jone another day to continue the bet he asked of me.
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Hi Muzh,
Here is a long answer to your questions, I hope you don't mind if I reminisce a bit. Or a lot haha.
(Snipped for brevity.)
WOW!! That was a lot of explaining. I do appreciate it. ;)
What I learned from this is 1) Ukrainian women are gorgeous and can be very sweet and feminine, 2) they get jealous pretty easily, even if it is the first time they meet you and it's understood that I'm on a trip trying to meet several women so as to narrow things down to one. 3) Ukrainian women take very good care of a man they like, much better than I've EVER had an American woman take care of me. 4) Some Ukrainian women just want true love and a happy family, and don't care about materialistic things so long as there is enough money for stability, while others have no problem using a man to buy them all sorts of nice things.
After my 2nd trip I read a lot more about scams and it made me wonder whether my high-maintenance girl Luda was scamming me or just was high-maintenance. What do you guys think?
Anyhow, based on the behavior of the other two women, who never asked me to buy them fancy things, (I still took them to nice dinners, and paid for everything for them while I was there) I preferred the other women because I was sure they liked me for me and not for my wallet.
First, you are generalizing and that goes against your own interests. Most women want true love and find a soul mate. Americans included. Ukrainian women have this exotic aura that gets your pump flowing downstream to certain vital organs. BUT, they are basically the same as any other woman.
Also, if you think they will stay "docile and feminine and sexy" give them a few years here. They'll be just like any other American woman you have dated. I'm sorry, I had to laugh at them not being materialistic. It's okay, you are just learning.
So what is a good man do if he was in Ukraine, and it was the first time meeting a girl, and at the end of the first date she took him to a shop and wanted him to buy her some boots? How is the best way to handle this? Is this girl definitely a pro scammer, or is there a chance she really likes me but also really needs some boots because she's dirt poor and winter is coming, and she knows it's no big deal for me to buy them? How to respond?
Thousand answers for you but I'll limit it to a few.
What to do meeting a girl in Ukraine for the first time? Exactly the same you would do when meeting a babe at the local watering hole for the first time. It's simple. Trust me, they are of flesh and bones.
Now, do you go buying clothes or shoes to the babe you just met at the local watering hole? No, of course. You can tell her many things but okay is not one of them, right? That should answer your question about the girl's motive.
That she is dirt poor? This is basically the main mistake many guys do when meeting a babe from the former Soyuz. Is she poor? That is none of your own damn business. Repeat after me, That is HER problem, not MINE. Do that 60 times and it becomes a habit. ;)
Many guys mistakenly believe they are there to rescue the fair maiden from impending danger, so they are there wide-eyed, bushy-tailed with their wallets wide open hoping that the babe will show some "gratitude." Boy, I know there are places like that in the US and usually they have a bouncer at the door.
It's winter and she is almost naked when you meet her. NO, she is NOT dirt poor. She is getting your blood flowing downstream to vital organs. DUH!!!
And if she is poor, That is HER problem, not MINE.
I suggest you work on your pick up approach and deal with these ladies in a very normal manner for you. After all, they want to meet the Amerikanetz.
BTW, my wife and I celebrated our 15th anniversary this year. Still holding hands (so she cannot hit me.)
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I've never used an agency to communicate with women but I have communicated with thousands of women and understand how FSU women write their own profiles and know they very rarely initiate first contact. Elena's models has too many women initiating contact with men. Many of their profiles were not written by the women or the women took advice from an agency on how to write their profile. Also too many photoshopped photos there. Most FSU women would not photoshop their photos for an online profile. I'm not going to supply a ton of information about Elena's Models using feeder agencies but here's a small sample below.
In the link below, a member said an FSU woman he's communicating with on Elena's Models is claiming she has orders to respond to 100% of the men writing her. Our beloved Lily says she never had to do that and other members point one can see the percentage of how much a woman replies and most do not reply 100% of the time. Who's right and who's wrong? Nobody is wrong and everybody is right. Individuals answer to nobody and feeder agencies of integrity won't have their ladies write 100% of the time. But not all feeder agencies are the same and some understand the more their ladies perform, the more money they make. Elena's Models can't control everybody.
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=9778.0
In the link below at post #87, a member said the first letter he received from his wife was fluent and encouraging but later his wife later revealed it was written by her local Elena's Models feeder agency. It is possible a man can be trading letters with slicky dicky Boris, the employee of the month at Elena's Models.
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=9778.75
Elena posted a photo at the bottom of the page in the link below of herself in a group photo with ladies from a local feeder agency she had a meeting with. This is her website.
http://www.womenrussia.com/who.htm
In the link below she explains the role of big Western agencies and local FSU agencies. She said local FSU agencies sends, rents, or sells women's profiles to Western agencies. This makes sense to me. Local FSU agencies have better access to the ladies and the bigger Western agencies are better to market the ladies. They need each other. Agencies outside of the FSU are so much bigger than agencies in the FSU and it seems unrealistic but truth is, the big agencies are just a bunch of small agencies united.
http://www.womenrussia.com/agencies.htm
If you still don't believe Elena's Models use feeder agencies from member's own words and Elena's mouth herself, you can do what I did. I wrote them I'm opening new agencies in various Ukrainian cities and I understand it's difficult to build a business without exposure and would like to team up with them. They replied they are not looking for more agencies to work with but to contact them later. Do you think they want me to contact them later because they like the attention or in the future may be in need of more feeder agencies?
One reason I have not petitioned for the removal of Elena's Models from the forum's recommended list is because I do believe Elena has set good rules for feeder agencies to follow and if a feeder agency violates those rules, it's not because Elena told them too. Elena's Models is nowhere near as bad as other big Western agencies so there is a difference on how they operate and part of the praise or blame goes to headquarters of every agency.
Because there are many feeder agencies working with Elena's Models with every one of them having different management styles, some men will have a bad or good experiences with Elena's Models. Just be aware there are all kinds of people(scammers) and businesses that want to separate you from your money. Things may seem innocent enough on dating sites in America and FSU when you can sign up for free but there is bait and that bait may lure you into a membership and if you sign up for a lower tier membership, you may be thrown more bait to lure you into a bigger membership. There is even bait to get men motivated to use the site for more than one month.
Now that you've been educated by the guy who flunked first grade, you are better prepared to enter into the world of FSU dating and women. I hope next week will be better for me when it comes to posting....and I can make some money off the naïve. Women aren't the only ones that can do that.
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So I'm actively chatting on freeukrainianwomen.com with about 6 girls now. I really can't handle any more. These are all girls that either contacted me first or sent me a letter/flirt after I "favorited" them (about 3/4 I didn't even favorite).
I wrote a response saying I need more than letters to be induced to visit a lady. We'll see if she responds or disappears.
They are baiting you. You have to write a number of letters to get closer to the ladies. You don't know who you're writing to until you get on the phone and Skype with them often.
BUT I did notice on EM I got a LOT of indicators of interest, and then I'd write the girls and half wouldn't even respond. So that leads me to believe that maybe some of these IOIs or flirts or whatever they were were fake.
Letters and expressions of interest are fake. They are baiting you to write back and the women doesn't even know they wrote you and if they did find out someone wrote on their behalf, they aren't interested in sending you a second letter.
So what is a good man do if he was in Ukraine, and it was the first time meeting a girl, and at the end of the first date she took him to a shop and wanted him to buy her some boots? How is the best way to handle this?
Say "NO" or walk away. Get tough and don't put up with nonsense. Can you do this? You are getting ran over by agencies and you are getting ran over by the women. You need to make changes on how you find these women and make changes on how you deal with insincere women. When they take you shopping or you give them money for English lessons, don't think of it how much they like you but how much they hate you. If they had the hots for you, they wouldn't insult you by bleeding your wallet dry. When you give into girls like that, they don't think you're a hero, they think you're stupid. They are experienced in helping fools separate from their money. When it's all said and done, you're not going to have any money left for the good girls.
About letter writing....There are signs posted all over the poles here with companies looking for people to write letters...It's a job
There was a story told earlier in this thread that if one uses a juicy worm on a hook, he'll catch more than if he just used a bare hook. That is true but when dealing with agencies, a guy needs to understand he is the fish and the agency is the fisherman with the bait. With a clear understanding what he's up against when doing business with an agency, a guy can properly move forward and won't know if he's dealing with a woman until he gets past the letter/chat form of communication.
If any guy ever gets beat up from other posters for questioning Elena's models, provide a link to this thread. I set those in denial straight.
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In my opinion a visit many trip is to meet several girls for tea to see if you have
chemistry before wasting any more of your or their time.
Rightly or wrongly, I 'filtered' who I wanted to meet using SKYPE or similar... Eventually, we'D end up casually chatting and you'll get to know each other when relaxed and see each other in a home environment. We didn't always have this facility, before and it is SO useful.
When I met SC, I knew what to expect and we decided it was pointless for me to book an apartment... and YET she nearly lost control of the car when I put my hand on her leg - as she drove me from the airport ;D
If I had moped around going to various museums and being a tourist I wouldn't
have met the girl of my dreams.
IF..it hadn't worked out, I would have tried to set up a date - I just wouldn't contact anyone before hand as a plan B.. AE knew your situation and accepted it - you were honest and it impressed
I agree many guys have met their wives using visit 'many' ..I tried visiting Kyiv and had lined up two ladies and they both told me they would never have agreed to meet me, if I had lined up more than one date ....
Keeping them apart was too stressful.I cannot fib to save my life and simply did not feel comfortable.
In MY opinion - if you are going a long way - it is better to get to know someone beforehand and really want to meet, rather than a series of dates - after a brief chat or two on line. The chances are the lady may not show - doubt your seriousness.A first date rarely reveals all the things you want to know
I am unique as is every person reading this and there is no 'right way'
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I needed to know if I was being scammed in my early days so I set up a second profile and contacted the ladies I was writing to. Soon weeded out the fakes and was well worth the effort.
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Thanks guys for advice on how to handle the pro-daters. Really there were only two women who did that, one I spent $30 on, but the other one got a good $500 out me. That was 9 years ago. It won't happen again believe me. Live and learn!
FYI by way of update... Right now I'm chatting with 4 women on Skype, one on Facebook, and one on Viber. So far I've had 2 actual video Skype chats and one phone call on viber all with different ladies. Not bad for the first 5-6 days or so. The video chats the girls look like their pics more or less. All in all very attractive girls. I am STILL getting well over a dozen 'winks' a day. 3/4 of them are unattractive and 1/4 are good. I have more than I know what to do with. The search engine for this site is not very good so really it's a lot of work just sifting through the ladies I want to contact, but I end up just 'favoriting' them and get enough write-backs from girls I've favorited, or contacts out of the blue, that I've only written actual first-contact letters to half a dozen ladies. When ladies contact me, most of them just send a flirt or write a letter with a smiley face and say 'hi' and that's it. Only two girls have stopped writing me, and I stopped writing maybe another 6. It would be ideal if I can narrow things down to just one girl for a visit, here's to hoping.
One thing I take exception to: BillyB says FSU women rarely contact men. I think it's more true to say "FSU women rarely contact men with average online game". I've had friends on U.S. dating sites say the same thing about American women: men have to initiate the contact almost always. For a long time, that's how I used to have to do it on U.S. sites too. But, for the past few years I have almost NEVER had to write women on U.S. sites. They all send me a flirt or write the first letter. Sure 80-90% are unattractive, but when I get 5 or so flirts a day, that's comes out to 3.5 attractive women sending flirts a week (and another 3-5 who are datable but only kind of attractive.) Only if I see a particularly attractive girl would I write her (and maybe 30-35% of the time they'd write back, but these are the girls getting 10-25 messages every day).
What I'm finding here is I'm getting exactly the same type of response on this new website, only the girls are on average much cuter (duh). I mean 1 out of 10 American women are foxes, on here it's almost 50% it seems. And I'm getting so many flirts a day because on these sites girls aren't just writing local guys, they're searching worldwide, and my profile is still pretty new.
Try doing a "recon profile" sometime. Take an attractive girl's pics and post them on a dating site. Your profile will probably get taken down in less than a week (or even a day or two) but in that week, you'll get 100 letters from guys. Read what they're saying. 98% of the guys have extremely lame online game. They say "hi" "hey" "what's up". A few will write something dirty. Some will say "oh you have such a beautiful smile, beautiful this, that, etc." It's all the same! And most men's profiles aren't all that interesting. They say what they want in a woman, what they do for fun, they talk about their job blah blah blah.
When it comes to writing a good profile, the trick is to post several of interesting photos, then write a few funny lines, some interesting and thoughtful lines, throw in a mysterious cryptic line, and then write something a little intimate and personal. Admit one thing you're struggling with but phrase it in optimistic terms (don't admit to a criminal record or porn problem or anything idiotic like that). This works absolute wonders. If you come off as too perfect, women will see you as fake and a player. If you show a little vulnerability and emotional intimacy, women see you as someone they can emotionally connect with. By showing a little vulnerability you are demonstrating the courage to be open and real with a women. They love it. It's a little secret almost no man's profile has. It's pure gold. And remember that women love to 'help' and 'fix' men.
I don't claim to be great at dating in person... I'm decent but not great. But online game, I've gotten pretty good at. I've asked hundreds of women to review my profiles and suggest improvements. If a woman reads a unique, funny, and interesting profile, do you REALLY think she WON'T hit the 'flirt' button when it's right there, and her curiosity and attraction are aroused? Of course she will. You've impressed her, she wants to know more, and it takes one mouse-click. And even the super-hot girls browse profiles to see what's out there. They're curious. And it's not hard to beat the competition when 98% of them all say the same thing.
I've done enough phone calls, facebook chats, video calls at this point to say at the very least, this site has a lot of real women on it. Maybe some are fakes I dunno, but most seem legit. I'm sure there are many sites out there that don't take measures to filter out the scammers; this one seems pretty good so far. I'll let you know as things progress.
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I needed to know if I was being scammed in my early days so I set up a second profile and contacted the ladies I was writing to. Soon weeded out the fakes and was well worth the effort.
'scammed' ..I do hope you don't mean if she dared' talk to another guy - before you even met ..
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Thanks guys for advice on how to handle the pro-daters. Really there were only two women who did that, one I
FYI by way of update... Right now I'm chatting with 4 women on Skype, one on Facebook, and one on Viber. So far I've had 2 actual video Skype chats and one phone call on viber all with different ladies. Not bad for the first 5-6 days or so.
I'd say that was pretty par for the course ..certainly don't agree that FSU women won't contact you - my Russian Wife did.
Being direct - I think most normal guys could build up a virtual 'harem' - but what cuts the mustard is if you get on the plane and you find a keeper.
But, for the past few years I have almost NEVER had to write women on U.S. sites. They all send me a flirt or write the first letter. Sure 80-90% are unattractive, but when I get 5 or so flirts a day, that's comes out to 3.5 attractive women sending flirts a week (and another 3-5 who are datable but only kind of attractive.) Only if I see a particularly attractive girl would I write her (and maybe 30-35% of the time they'd write back, but these are the girls getting 10-25 messages every day).
What I'm finding here is I'm getting exactly the same type of response on this new website, only the girls are on average much cuter (duh). I mean 1 out of 10 American women are foxes, on here it's almost 50% it seems. And I'm getting so many flirts a day because on these sites girls aren't just writing local guys, they're searching worldwide, and my profile is still pretty new.
Yup, I;m getting the feeling you may be judging 'success' by the 'flirts' you get ... I made a very specific profile about what I was looking for and made it clear that 'flirts' were a 'turn off' as if someone felt like contacting me, I'd appreciate at least a few introductory words ... My profiles were 'hard' but smart women realised I was serious.
Try doing a "recon profile" sometime. Take an attractive girl's pics and post them on a dating site. Your profile will probably get taken down in less than a week (or even a day or two) but in that week, you'll get 100 letters from guys. Read what they're saying. 98% of the guys have extremely lame online game. They say "hi" "hey" "what's up". A few will write something dirty. Some will say "oh you have such a beautiful smile, beautiful this, that, etc." It's all the same! And most men's profiles aren't all that interesting. They say what they want in a woman, what they do for fun, they talk about their job blah blah blah.
I cannot think of anything more daft to advise. You are wasting some other guys' time and using someone else's images.
(don't admit to a criminal record or porn problem or anything idiotic like that).
OMG - Please tell me no-one is taking this poster's 'advice', seriously .... What exactly is your aim - to get as many virtual friends or to find a life-partner ... I have a feeling your potential victims have a right to know if you have a criminal record / porn problem - or 'anything idiotic' ....
I don't claim to be great at dating in person... I'm decent but not great. But online game, I've gotten pretty good at. I've asked hundreds of women to review my profiles and suggest improvements. If a woman reads a unique, funny, and interesting profile, do you REALLY think she WON'T hit the 'flirt' button when it's right there, and her curiosity and attraction are aroused? Of course she will. You've impressed her, she wants to know more, and it takes one mouse-click. And even the super-hot girls browse profiles to see what's out there. They're curious. And it's not hard to beat the competition when 98% of them all say the same thing.
I've done enough phone calls, facebook chats, video calls at this point to say at the very least, this site has a lot of real women on it. Maybe some are fakes I dunno, but most seem legit. I'm sure there are many sites out there that don't take measures to filter out the scammers; this one seems pretty good so far. I'll let you know as things progress.
Let us know when you get back from meeting the girls .... that is what counts
Really, that IS good advice
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Thanks guys! Yeah I think I'm mostly wise to the scams, but these girls can get pretty creative so you never know what they might try and pull next. If a girl gives me her skype address or VK or Facebook, that or phone #, that goes a long ways towards setting my mind at ease.
I gotta tell you, IMHO the average lady 30-40 years old in the U.S. is a 5 or 6. Is it just me or does the 'average' FSUW seem more like a 7.5 or 8? I know some pics are photo-shopped but when I was in Kiev it was like holy shit every 40 feet on the sidewalk I'd pass a model-quality lady.
I'm not all about the looks, but it's rare for me to feel attracted to a woman who is 20 lbs. or more overweight. I still look for intelligence, humor, kindness, very much so. My inner suspicion is this is how most if not all men are wired, to want a physically attractive lady, even if they don't admit it. Not a supermodel, just moderately fit and feminine. What do you guys think?
Years ago, I joined this site with a question regarding this 5-6-7-8 beauty scale for women :) From my perspective, I'd say that it is true that an average Russian woman's appearance would be more attractive than that of an average American woman. Different genes, food, education counts. No diversity, no promotion of weak or mediocrity, a winner-takes-all mentality.
A beauty bar in Russia is therefore higher. If you live among many women of similar race and looks, you probably will start comparing them to each other, and inevitably you will find out that this one is pretty, and that one is prettier, and the other one is even more so, etc, etc.
Women are born and bred with this in mind. We do therefore take pride in our appearance, we dress, behave and carry ourselves to impess. :-*
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Mobyone, are you just being a troll here? Seriously?!?
I am only reporting my experience, that's all. I never said flirts = success. That is purely your assumption. My goal, if you read my original post, was to find out whether the girls sending flirts were legit girls and not scammers. I am now reporting that many of the flirts are converting to live conversations, meaning at least a good chunk of initial flirts seem to be legit, interested ladies. This is all relevant to the purpose of this thread.
I am not building up a "harem" as you put it, or preying on 'victims'. The reference to a porn problem or criminal record was a hypothetical example, nothing more. The point of me saying that was to illustrate the point that one shouldn't reveal too much too soon on a public profile regarding certain weaknesses one may have (and I realize that certain violent/exploitive criminals should be avoided by the ladies at all costs, but you know in my home state, a traffic ticket is a crime, so 'criminal' is a very broad term). It's GOOD advice. I never said that if someone had problems along those lines, that they shouldn't eventually disclose that. I'm not looking for mere "virtual" relationships. Did I ever say anything to indicate I was? I've visited Kiev twice in the past and found one girl who told me she loved me and was willing to marry me. I don't claim to know everything but also I'm not a total newb to this.
Why do you think writing several women at once, to find the RIGHT ONE to visit and hopefully marry, constitutes assembling a harem? I find your terminology disrespectful. You realize a harem is a captive group or prostitutes and/or sex slaves right? When you were writing your spouse-to-be and other ladies online, did you look at them as your harem? Why are you using terminology like that here? You are seriously trolling me because I'm honestly reporting my online experience? Do you really have a problem with me sharing my beliefs on how to write a good profile, that may help other guys on this site get results? Isn't our point here to share and help each other get better in this area?
Yes I set up a recon profile once a few years ago, for maybe 5 days. If you don't like that, fine whatever. But I guarantee you've done much worse things in your life, so get off your high horse you condescending hypocrite.
Fortunately almost everyone else on this site has been great, so thanks guys (and gals).
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Lily, that's exactly what makes you ladies so special :)
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Sorry guys, here's something I don't understand: why would people pose as ladies and write several fake letters, when the site I'm on charges a flat monthly rate and is not pay-per-letter? I can totally understand if this were pay-per-letter, but if I already paid my $35 and I now can write unlimited letters, how does this work to their benefit? I don't see how being written multiple fake letters by multiple fake ladies for over a month, where specific questions are being answered and vice versa (not just form letters), merely to induce him to continue another month for another measly $30, can be profitable given the time and effort writing said responses requires.
I'm not saying the posters here are wrong, not at all. I just don't understannd why 'ghost writers' would do this on site that is not pay-per-letter.
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One thing I take exception to: BillyB says FSU women rarely contact men. I think it's more true to say "FSU women rarely contact men with average online game".
After all that was said in this thread, if you still believe all that online attention you are getting is all you, then we can't help you. You need to help yourself. Earlier you said you were going to try Mamba.ru and get back to us. Have you signed up? Bride.ru advertises heavily at Mamba and gets the ladies that will consider overseas relationships. It's a monthly fee there but try it out and tell me how popular you are. With the exception of Nigerian scammers on Mamba, you will be dealing with real women in control of their own profile at those sites, not agency ghost writers.
I probably don't have online game and I don't care about making the world's best profile but after writing enough ladies who tolerate my looks, I'll get phone numbers and get dates. Smart women aren't impressed with online game and men certainly have to have more than that to get to first base with them.
Sorry guys, here's something I don't understand: why would people pose as ladies and write several fake letters, when the site I'm on charges a flat monthly rate and is not pay-per-letter? I can totally understand if this were pay-per-letter, but if I already paid my $35 and I now can write unlimited letters, how does this work to their benefit? I don't see how being written multiple fake letters by multiple fake ladies for over a month, where specific questions are being answered and vice versa (not just form letters), merely to induce him to continue another month for another measly $30, can be profitable given the time and effort writing said responses requires.
I'm not saying the posters here are wrong, not at all. I just don't understannd why 'ghost writers' would do this on site that is not pay-per-letter.
Since Elena's Models doesn't do pay per letter, she keeps her site cleaner than the other big agencies but charging a flat fee monthly doesn't stop all questionable activities.
After one month, a guy will pretty much get bored with an agency if he's getting no action and not sign up for another month. There is motivation to get you to sign up another month and then some. If I were a feeder agency that supplied Elena's Models 100 profiles and none of my ladies are writing men, do you think Elena's Models will sign another contract with me or cut ties? Feeder agencies have motivation to perform. Now if I was a feeder agency and 10 out of 100 ladies of mine are actively writing letters sometimes and my competition on the other side of the country has 100 out of 100 ladies writing men 100% of the time, where are the men more likely to go? They will visit the women that's giving them the most attention and the agency for those women will benefit from the men having to hire translators, guides, apartment rentals with the agency getting a cut and many agencies will charge a fee for every date you go on with their ladies.
Now you understand why ghost writers are so important? Do you believe what Oso said earlier that there are advertisements out there for people to be ghost writers? It's a job for some and until you deal with dating sites that are not under the influence, everything you said about you having great online game is unbelievable. Don't lie to yourself. Get to reality and then report back your experiences.
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Since Elena's Models doesn't do pay per letter, she keeps her site cleaner than the other big agencies but charging a flat fee monthly doesn't stop all questionable activities.
Note: my comments are about the site two years ago. They've changed their interface
to a clunky Microsoft system, screwed up the search feature, and a few other things
that made their site worse than before.
Back when I used EM there were significantly more men then women more than a 2 to 1
ratio. Most of the women who wrote to me from EM first didn't interest me. So I wrote to
the girls that I was interested in. I advised girls to join EM (if they were thin) and I advised
men to use other sites including Mamba. NOTE: I didn't tell men to avoid EM, but I stopped
recommending it ahead of other places.
A man only needs one woman, but who knows where you will find her. I highly recommend
avoiding the pay by the letter or pay to chat sites.
Udachi!
Bill
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Hi all,
I will say when I was on EM I'd get expressions of interest but most of them never converted to letters after I wrote the girls. The site I'm on now seems to more or less have a 1:1 ratio rather than the 2:1 so perhaps that's what's making a difference. Also I don't do form letters at all. Form letters are both good and bad. I could write a lot more ladies a lot more quickly, but I know my response rate would go way down. It's not a bad way to go, just a different approach.
I can absolutely see flirts being sent out by the system to lure guys in. There was a U.S. website I was using where on occasion a woman would send me a flirt, and I'd respond by writing her and saying 'thanks for the flirt' and she wrote back saying 'you're welcome but I never sent one' lol.
It's only been a week that I've been on this site. It could be a lot of ladies will start to flake. That wouldn't surprise me. We'll see what happens.
I think what I really need help with is getting the right girl when I visit her. Believe you me I'll need some help with that ;)
I'll be sure to check out mamba.... when I have time! Thanks guys even if I don't agree with all posts this is a good discussion to have.
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I'll be sure to check out mamba.... when I have time!
Why wait? Also sign up on bride.ru who gets most of their women from Mamba. At Bride.ru the ladies full contact info, email and phone are available right off the bat. You'll find your online game is not as good as you think but the action you receive there is realistic. Until you accept reality, you'll have a hard time functioning and being successful in the online dating world. Western dating sites with Western women aren't much different than Western sites who use FSU women. A guy can be played here or there.
DM World is the parent company of freeukrainianwomen.com and many others. Below link shows how much the top performing partner site made per day. They also say one out of six registered men will pay for a membership. Like a car salesman, they know if you walk away, you probably won't buy from them. It's probably why you get bait(a lot of first contact from women.)
http://www.owndating.com/
Here they say a partner site will get paid for every profile they list and 50% of the membership fees. Now you understand the motivation to keep you interested and signed up and that there could be profiles at the site that are not real.
http://profitdating.ru/info_rule.html
Below is a list of sites they work with from 2010. Some are still active and they've added a few since then. Some FSU feeder agencies own those sites and there is motivation to list profiles since they get paid for everyone and get YOU to pay a membership on their site since they get a cut. They also want you to continue a membership month after month.
http://www.romancescam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=32125
Some agency probably got bold by putting a tv star's photos on the site. They got caught. Proof that every lady there is not verified as real and really interested in getting married to a Westerner.
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/177228/Cheryl-Cole-is-a-bride
A few more sister sites below.
http://bridesukraine.net/texts/company_at_glance
http://www.ruswomans.com/
http://lovewife.ru/texts/services
http://www.russianwomencenter.com/
If you want to continue to use freeukrainianwomen.com, you have been educated and as long as you understand you're the fish, not the fisherman, the bait will be delicious.
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Very interesting, BillyB. Sounds like bride.ru is a better match than mamba, so I'll be sure to check it out. I do think time is better spent going to a site that is geared towards women who want to marry foreigners, over one where women are aiming to date locals. But if you can make a compelling argument as to why mamba is better, I'll check that out. I still work a 9-5 job so I can't be running all over the place though :)
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Sounds like bride.ru is a better match than mamba
Bride.ru is only better in the fact all women there are open to relocating. There are much more women at Mamba. You're going to get less first contacts with women at these sites and you'll have less women responding to your messages and mail so the key is to write as many as possible and hopefully enough women write back to keep you busy.
Bride.ru also gets rid of old profiles and doesn't get involved with agencies. I've also learned many FSU women give up their pursuit of a Western husband after a few months. They enter this endeavor excited but quickly become jaded by the losers, not serious, and the morally bankrupt men out there. I didn't get many responses from profiles older than 6 months, sometimes because the ladies stopped checking their emails but I called them on the phone and most of them were happy I did.
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I'll take quality over quantity any day of the week. I'm only going to (hopefully) marry one girl anyway right?
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I'm only going to (hopefully) marry one girl anyway right?
Yep, one girl.... at a time.
I've been doing some research and notice on freeukrainianwomen.com there are more women online than men and women tend to write more letters than men. I created a profile with no description of myself and no photos to get this info. I already got matches in my inbox. It's Sunday night for American men and we're sitting awake at home so one would think we'd be on the site more than women yet FSU women are online more than us. It's in the morning hours for FSU women so they should be sleeping or working. Maybe they are working? Things that make you go "Hmmmm". It's not normal for FSU to burn their morning hours looking for a husband on the internet.
First link below is a profile on freeukrainianwomen definitely written by an agency. Next two links are from Bride.ru that are most likely written by the individual. Usually FSU write profiles like this or with less info.
http://freeukrainianwomen.com/gal/details/101318918?forceiframe=1
http://bride.ru/ph/htcgi/ladies/925/925011P5.html
http://bride.ru/ph/htcgi/ladies/924/924803P3.html
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That's a long-ass profile. Not very many on freeukranianwomen.com (FUW) are as long as that. Most are like the bride.ru links.
One thing I've noticed is there are some profiles on FUW that are model pictures, or have the girl in all sorts of sexy poses. None of the girls I'm talking to on Skype and Viber are anything like that. So yeah, some of the profiles are suspect.
I must say the $99.95 per month for bride.ru is pretty damn steep. Sure I could afford it, but at the same time I know there are real girls on FUW so maybe the $35 a month is a good deal even if some of the profiles are fake.
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There's a LOT of flakiness when it comes to online dating, let alone international online dating. Another site you could try that's absolutely free is Fdating.com. Free to send messages and receive them. Ladies from all over too, not just FSUW. Again it's online dating, but just use some common sense and you'll be fine.
Tag
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I must say the $99.95 per month for bride.ru is pretty damn steep. Sure I could afford it, but at the same time I know there are real girls on FUW so maybe the $35 a month is a good deal even if some of the profiles are fake.
Honest businesses have to charge more to stay in business. I don't have a problem with businesses making money, only how they make that money. The last time I used bride.ru, I was allowed to get 30 contact info a day or roughly 900 a month. That amounts to 11 cents a profile which includes email, address, and phone number. I only needed them a month so it was good value for me. 11 cents each to get the email, address, and phone number of 900 beautiful FSU women is a damn good deal. Surely one of those 900 women is going to like you. Isn't the ONE worth $99?
On the site you're using, you don't get all that. You've been doing this for years probably on questionable sites. If you wasted an hour a day with Boris, the employee of the month, you will have wasted 30 hours of your life each month with ghost writers. The girls you end up meeting online may lure you to visit but not be interested in you. What is the cost of all that nonsense in time and money? Sure you can do things cheaper and navigate through the games that are played but I don't think it's worth it. There are free sites out there with less games. Freepersonals.ru is one of them.
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That's a good point. Sorry freeukranianwomen.com was the first site I saw recommended in the newbie section on this forum, so I figured they were pretty legit.
Just to set the record straight, I did this whole thing 9 years ago. I bet I spent a good $2000 with agencies that I didn't have to spend. I still met some nice 'real' girls when I visited Kiev though. I'm just jumping in again after all this time. Who knows maybe I'll up and marry an American after all. American women aren't all bad lol.
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Billy has some great points....The reality is there are guys that have met women (real women) on the sites that have the biggest scam rates. Use caution on any site and keep the guidelines in mind
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I'm only going to (hopefully) marry one girl anyway right?
That's sort of taking a limited view to your potential enjoyment of life.
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Mobyone, are you just being a troll here? Seriously?!?
IF you had read all my post, you would know my observations were quite serious. Your 'research' made YOU a 'scammer' - if you meant a profile that was not real ....You didn't stop to think about the consequences of creating fake profiles using someone else's photos ...
I am only reporting my experience, that's all. I never said flirts = success. That is purely your assumption.
Hardly, I based my conclusion - backed up with your words ..
My goal, if you read my original post, was to find out whether the girls sending flirts were legit girls and not scammers. I am now reporting that many of the flirts are converting to live conversations, meaning at least a good chunk of initial flirts seem to be legit, interested ladies. This is all relevant to the purpose of this thread.
Just to remind you, I read you posts and I'm sorry, you aren't convincing me... I rather think, you are trying to convince yourself ..
I am not building up a "harem" as you put it, or preying on 'victims'. The reference to a porn problem or criminal record was a hypothetical example, nothing more.
LOUSY examples, then
The point of me saying that was to illustrate the point that one shouldn't reveal too much too soon on a public profile regarding certain weaknesses one may have (and I realize that certain violent/exploitive criminals should be avoided by the ladies at all costs, but you know in my home state, a traffic ticket is a crime, so 'criminal' is a very broad term).
Luckily, most of us don't live in such states... please bear that in mind ..
Naturally, I agree about not posting too much info on a public profile - other than what you seek / desire. Negatives - esp. if needing translating - are something you might want to reveal - if you want to progress past a few dates. As you should know,most serious FSU women will be inquisitive and ask searching questions
I'm not looking for mere "virtual" relationships. Did I ever say anything to indicate I was?
Again, it's the impression you give in your 'conclusions' - whether you intended it or not.
I've visited Kiev twice in the past and found one girl who told me she loved me and was willing to marry me. I don't claim to know everything but also I'm not a total newb to this.
You suggest otherwise with you 'reliance' on flirts. In MY experience, legit, hot women, who register on dating sites quickly tire of the flood of - mainly - inane emails and occasionally login - hoping for a sensible guy. They rarely send 'flirts' You need to contact THEM
Why do you think writing several women at once, to find the RIGHT ONE to visit and hopefully marry, constitutes assembling a harem? I find your terminology disrespectful. You realize a harem is a captive group or prostitutes and/or sex slaves right? When you were writing your spouse-to-be and other ladies online, did you look at them as your harem? Why are you using terminology like that here?
I used the term virtual 'harem' - please don't get bent out of shape / 'offended'. I see no harm writing to a few ladies, if you are honest in your intentions to try to meet the one or ones you wish to check out in reality - I see harm - if you have the gall to create female profiles that your fellow males may waste their time writing to - let alone who's photos you've used. You are no better than the 'scammers' - the 'fake' ladies. To be clear ... my Russian partner used the term virtual 'harem' for the guys who have loads of women as friends online, but in reality never have an intention to meet. Guys that get a thrill out of being popular / getting many replies.
Your research proves nothing other than you are guilty of the 'stunts' by ladies that you suggest offend you.
You are seriously trolling me because I'm honestly reporting my online experience? Do you really have a problem with me sharing my beliefs on how to write a good profile, that may help other guys on this site get results? Isn't our point here to share and help each other get better in this area?
YES, it is great to see a member posting helpful advice - I don't regard much of your 'research' as being sound, nor your conclusions. That I might be a 'troll' for countering your 'advice' speaks volumes ...
Yes I set up a recon profile once a few years ago, for maybe 5 days. If you don't like that, fine whatever. But I guarantee you've done much worse things in your life, so get off your high horse you condescending hypocrite.
It was a dumb thing to do and to suggest others to do - I have explained why.
I have indeed done some daft things and posted them here as a testament of how not to do act... examples
1/ I have paid money to pay per letter dating sites
2/ I have paid money for an airline ticket for a woman I had never met - and invited her to visit ME first - but we later married.
Fortunately almost everyone else on this site has been great, so thanks guys (and gals).
May be they don't want to upset you, couldn't be bothered to post or worse thought you were being 'smart' ...
I saw you offering some really BAD advice - based on daft conclusions and here we are.
I do not seek to upset you - I want you to 'wake up'... I want you and other folk to be successful and meet the woman / guy of their dreams
Try not to be hurt and realise that no matter how upset you might be by my countering your 'advice' - it was meant to make you modify your approach and to highlight it's flaws and even insensitivity
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Bride.ru also gets rid of old profiles and doesn't get involved with agencies
Billy, Bride.ru allow ladies to keep rejoining using the same photos they used 10 years ago and they never age .. :D
Example - Alexandra from SPb... she was 36 in 2005 and when I last looked was 41.
I saw profiles on EM with profile photos from 2006
I don't blame the sites - but wonder why certain folk think it is ok to use old photos and lie about their age.
The first skype - or similar - meeting will reveal the fib, any way
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freeukranianwomen.com was the first site I saw recommended in the newbie section on this forum, so I figured they were pretty legit.
Somebody recommended them and they're similar to Elena's Models which many people recommend. Both require men to pay monthly. Although there's less chance for feeder agencies to scam men compared to pay per letter, there's still the opportunity for feeder agencies to try and make extra money in another fashion.
Billy, Bride.ru allow ladies to keep rejoining using the same photos they used 10 years ago and they never age .. :D
A poster once said he met a woman on an online dating site and he drove the next State over to meet her. She was 15 years older than her photos and 100lbs heavier. No dating site or marriage site is perfect. They can't be our protective mother and police all rolled into one. As individuals we have to be aware not everything may seem as it is on the internet.
What Bride.ru does is call all ladies who sign up, no matter where they're at in the FSU, to verify they are a lady and are searching for a Western man. Less chance for scammers there but anything is possible. What I like about Bride.ru is that they don't throw bait to men to lure them into paying for a bigger or recurring membership. They also don't deal with feeder agencies who have different motives. A lot of their women come from Mamba, a dating site, not a marriage agency. A guy will get less action there compared to at the big agencies but it's real.
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A poster once said he met a woman on an online dating site and he drove the next State over to meet her. She was 15 years older than her photos and 100lbs heavier. No dating site or marriage site is perfect. They can't be our protective mother and police all rolled into one. As individuals we have to be aware not everything may seem as it is on the internet.
I don't know when this happened, but in 2015 it should pretty much NEVER happen. There are enough ways to video chat...even in the worst case scenario where a man would have to pay a few bucks for a gal to have access to the internet for a video feed....that is a hell of a lot better than making the effort of a trip to see a woman 100 pounds different than advertised.
Fathertime!
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I have communicated with thousands of women and understand how FSU women write their own profiles and know they very rarely initiate first contact.
BillyB
I beg to differ - it my experience I received many letters - irrespective of the site. My former Russian wife contacted me on Lucky Lovers - as I had excluded her - having viewed her profile a few times and decided 9 years was too big a gap - I was 45 and she 36, at the time.
Sure, I wrote letters - but not many ladies fitted my criteria and my profiles were quite 'hard' in attempt to STOP the inane letters from ladies who were never going to be written to by me. I would say most were genuine profiles and perfectly charming ladies - just didn't 'do it' for me.
*I* wrote to SC.. on Mamba.ru and one of the dmnotify.com family - forget which one - there are so many names and they all lead to the same place ... She rarely logged in - so set about looking through social media sites to track her down...
May be our differing experience is based on the fact that I was 44/5 - looking for a woman in her early 40's the first time and and 8 years on was looking for a woman in her mid 40's.
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BillyB
I beg to differ - it my experience I received many letters - irrespective of the site. My former Russian wife contacted me on Lucky Lovers - as I had excluded her - having viewed her profile a few times and decided 9 years was too big a gap - I was 45 and she 36, at the time.
I've heard many good things about Lucky Lovers and there have been others that showed up at the forum that found their husband or wife there. It's possible most ladies who do not get a lot of attention engage in initial first contact.
Lucky Lovers lets you sign up for free but to use most features, one has to pay right? It's normal for this business model domestic or foreign to lure men into paying for a monthly membership. Does it happen 100% of the time? Probably not but it happens more often than not.
I've used sites where women have more freedom and less chance for the business owner to play games. You've seen my photos. I'm not ugly or severely out of shape. Friends and family have told me my wife isn't the most beautiful FSU lady I've dated so I can believe I can attract women but still, ladies initiate first contact with me very rarely and I'm confident if any guy, no matter how good looking he is, that uses bride.ru or Mamba will have the same results.
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Hi all I am new here! I've been to Ukraine twice but that was 9 years ago. Both trips I found a good girl and on the 2nd trip I found a couple scammers as well :(
Anyhow, figured I'd try Ukraine again as I'm now 41 and the dating scene in Utah is not that great - many of the women are divorced with 3 kids and emotional wrecks. I'm oversimplifying of course, but you know how it goes...
So per recommendations on this site I signed up to freeukrainianwomen.com. Probably spent 5 hours on it doing searches and also putting up a good profile with lots of interesting pics of me doing interesting stuff. I'm moderately attractive, in good shape, good job, and I'm pretty good with putting up a good online dating profile. But I am overwhelmed by 20 flirts and another 7-8 letters in 5 hours. I'm sure at this point another 10 have dropped in my inbox.
This may sound like bragging, but actually I'm a bit concerned as to how many of these might be scammers just waiting to pounce on the new guy? Has anyone else had experience with this PARTICULAR site, who could tell me how many of these might actually be legit? Is this just because I'm new, or are women really this desperate to find a decent guy and get the hell out of Ukraine?!? A lot of the girls who sent me flirts were ones I favorited first, and I was picking girls from towns other than the big ones like Kiev and Odessa.
Thanks for any input or tips for this specific site.
I havent had a chance to read this discussion in detail. But wanted to respond regarding the subject with my "limited "experience.
I had signed up on quite a few sites in my pursuit and felt that this site was better than others in weeding out fake profiles. Found my girl here, met her twice in the past 6 months and working towards the next step.
I would give a thumbs up to this site.
At the same time, the more you read all the earlier discussions and suggestions from the pros, the better equipped you will be to handle this not so easy pursuit.
I learnt a lot about the women from others peoples experiences on this site. I think the guys here are spot on with their assessment. My respect for the women from these regions has gone up a notch or two. They are not only beautiful, but have great character too. (There are always shady people everywhere in the world, I'm focusing on the good ones here).
In terms of the strategy, I came up with my own game plan, rather than following the text book routine suggested here as I know my strengths and weaknesses better than anybody else.
Good Luck.
They key is being rational in your thoughts and a good understanding of your self.
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I've heard many good things about Lucky Lovers and there have been others that showed up at the forum that found their husband or wife there. It's possible most ladies who do not get a lot of attention engage in initial first contact.
BillyB - I assure you that 'lack of attention' was not an issue - just being so far east. Plenty of guys who wrote said. 'I'll be in Moscow, if you want to meet up' - not realising that a 3 day train journey or the equiv of a trans-atlantic flight east to west was hardly an incentive to meet a guy on a VM trip.
Please note I did mention that with ALL the sites, I tried ..that there was no shortage of ladies who wrote- taking the initiative.. I was taking issue with your generalisation that "I know they [ FSUW] very rarely initiate first contact. "
That is just not my experience ... hence I do not want members thinking otherwise - if they are blessed with letters. I always responded to every letter - as the lady had taken the trouble to write.
Lucky Lovers lets you sign up for free but to use most features, one has to pay right? It's normal for this business model domestic or foreign to lure men into paying for a monthly membership. Does it happen 100% of the time? Probably not but it happens more often than not.
I've used sites where women have more freedom and less chance for the business owner to play games. You've seen my photos. I'm not ugly or severely out of shape. Friends and family have told me my wife isn't the most beautiful FSU lady I've dated so I can believe I can attract women but still, ladies initiate first contact with me very rarely and I'm confident if any guy, no matter how good looking he is, that uses bride.ru or Mamba will have the same results.
BillyB, I'm afraid I'm the last person to ask if you are handsome - or not - I'm a bloke ;) I've not seen your good lady - all that matters is what you think of her ;)
I haven't used LL for 8 years - so I can't remember the business model - sorry. I would NOT use a pay by letter model - I seem to remember that there was a monthly fee.
I have used Bride.ru 2004/5 and 2014 and mamba.ru in 2014 - as I said,the latter is where I found S.C. On both sites I received lots of initial contact from women - I always made it clear that I will not respond to 'flirts' , 'Hellos' , 'Hearts' or what I consider to be inane forms of first contact, in my profile - and still got them - thus proving many ladies don't bother to read the profile :D
Bride.ru is a shadow of it's former self and EM - I hated the new layout - never gave it a spin second time around
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Mobyone, are you just being a troll here? Seriously?!?
***snipped for space***
Yes I set up a recon profile once a few years ago, for maybe 5 days. If you don't like that, fine whatever. But I guarantee you've done much worse things in your life, so get off your high horse you condescending hypocrite.
Wow, you advocate setting up a fake profile to, "recon", then ask Mobey if he is the one being a troll? I couldn't care less about getting into a personal pissing contest, but how could you seriously offer advice like that, then in any way imply someone calling you on it was being a troll?
Who cares what Mobey, or anyone else, has done in their life? It has no bearing on what you are suggesting.
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From my perspective, I'd say that it is true that an average Russian woman's appearance would be more attractive than that of an average American woman. Different genes, food, education counts. No diversity, no promotion of weak or mediocrity, a winner-takes-all mentality.
I disagree with this. There is plenty of promotion of the weak and mediocre in Russia.
As for attractiveness, I disagree that it is because of genes or education (what does education have to do with beauty?). Food, yes. Less junk food, and less food (calories) consumed.
Recently, I was reading about Richard Avedon. His favourite model was an American housewife, discovered coming out of a store. One of his most iconic photos of her is below (with the elephants). She retired at 35, she said, before the camera would be cruel. Her ethnic background was English. Are her genes "inferior"?
(http://www.karinsfashion.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/1-dfordoll-Dovima-vintage_daily-statigram-0011.jpg)
(http://iconicphotos.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/avedon-elephant-picture1.png?w=700&h=445)
FSUW are not more innately attractive than other women. They do dress better than WW, and they are generally thinner, and thinner people usually are more aesthetically pleasing than are heavier people.
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I must say the $99.95 per month for bride.ru is pretty damn steep. Sure I could afford it, but at the same time I know there are real girls on FUW so maybe the $35 a month is a good deal even if some of the profiles are fake.
$99.95 is cheap, if you are going to visit one, you should be able to write
at least a couple hundred girls in a months time and start getting your
sifting your list down.
If you are going to visit many then you can pick a city and then write a
letter to every girl who meets your eye test in a given city and ask them
to meet you for tea.
A trip is going to cost you $3K and up, what's a hundred bucks? You don't
need to be a member once you have contacted a girl and start exchanging
emails, phone and Skype calls.
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I disagree with this. There is plenty of promotion of the weak and mediocre in Russia.
As for attractiveness, I disagree that it is because of genes or education (what does education have to do with beauty?). Food, yes. Less junk food, and less food (calories) consumed.
Recently, I was reading about Richard Avedon. His favourite model was an American housewife, discovered coming out of a store. One of his most iconic photos of her is below (with the elephants). She retired at 35, she said, before the camera would be cruel. Her ethnic background was English. Are her genes "inferior"?
FSUW are not more innately attractive than other women. They do dress better than WW, and they are generally thinner, and thinner people usually are more aesthetically pleasing than are heavier people.
FSUW tend to walk a lot more and eat less junk food. Thinner often
(but not always) makes for a more attractive appearance and this is
especially prevalent in ages above thirty. The percentage of thin Western
Women over the age of thirty is probably less than 10% the percentage
of Russian women who are over 30 and thin is probably more than 50%.
The 20 year old Western Girls are just as attractive as the 20 year old
Russian girls (and likely just as flaky)
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The percentage of thin Western Women over the age of thirty is probably less than 10% the percentage of Russian women who are over 30 and thin is probably more than 50%
Same with WM. Though I didn't follow the 10%. Are you saying 90% of WW over 30 are fat? I would say it's about half.
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FSUW are not more innately attractive than other women. They do dress better than WW, and they are generally thinner, and thinner people usually are more aesthetically pleasing than are heavier people.
I am (almost) the only one who has been saying this for years.
It used to drive business men like Jack (rest his soul) crazy.
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The 20 year old Western Girls are just as attractive as the 20 year old Russian girls (and likely just as flaky)
I have also been saying this for years and getting denials from many of the guys here.
On this past Sunday (day before University classes started), Ochka and I drove to the University to check out her classrooms for teaching.
She was assigned to teach on the Engineering campus in buildings she has not been in before. We wanted to go and look, to make sure there were no surprises and to make her feel more comfortable. (Actually this was mostly my idea because I am such a great guy and look out for her in any way I can).
Anyway, freshman orientation was underway, and 5,000 new students were being led here and there across many parts of the campus.
Temperature was over 90 degree F.
Many of the girls were wearing shortest shorts possible.
I am a leg man . . . so quite a treat.
Ochka doesn't mind at all when I go 'wow look at those legs.'
She knows that when a man stops admiring legs (no matter whose) . . . he is close to losing interest in the opposite sex (no matter who).
Now, although showing great legs and butts . . . these gals may still not drive the men here as crazy as do the FSU gals . . . because they did not have on their full prostitute look of make-up, high heels, etc. They were all into comfort . . . not looks.
However take a close look at many faces . . . drop dead gorgeous. Without make-up!!
But no . . . these gals aren't about to be interested in a guy 10 - 30 years older.
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My daughters are c. 20 and I whilst I can appreciate good looks, my 'radar' tunes out when presented with lasses that COULD be my grand kids/ daughters of friends...
Does this mean I am finished 'urge' wise .. ? :D
I find there are more slim = good looking (?) FSUW women aged over forty. I do believe this a combination of dietary habits and life style.
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I find there are more slim = good looking (?) FSUW women aged over forty. I do believe this a combination of dietary habits and life style.
Over 40 years old? It's not even remotely close. This is where the percentages
skew overwhelmingly to the FSU. What's more is that these women have almost
no prospects of getting married locally.
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FSUW are not more innately attractive than other women.
They're the most beautiful women in the world. Those Slavic features and their willingness to let their femininity all hang out will get them a lot more attention in America than the average American girl.
Of course if one went to an Asian women discussion forum, the guys there would say Asian women are the most beautiful. Same goes for men chasing Hispanic women.
Regardless if women from every culture are equally beautiful, some know how to separate themselves from the others and deserve more attention.
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IMHO FSUW aren't naturally better looking, they just do a lot more with what they have. It's not just how they dress or the fact that they tend to be in better shape. It's also how they walk, and their overall enhanced femininity. To me many seem more gentle and sweet than a lot of U.S. women (and that is really an overgeneralization, but there you have it). But I know at least some of this is subjective.
I would say even by their late 20s some of the U.S. girls start putting on a little weight, and I hate it when women get married and then they chop their hair short and stop trying to look good for their man. To me that's just selfish. The man should please the woman, but the woman should also try and make her man happy. There have been numerous scientific studies done that have found that men with attractive wives makes for happier, more supportive husbands and thus happier wives and happier marriages. We can say that's 'shallow' but hey it's our biological wiring and science doesn't lie. It is what it is deny it at your peril.
But yes, in my college days there were hotties everywhere. No doubt about it.
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Generalizations..... but I did find one gal who had great qualities:
sweet
sexy
feminine
thoughtful
direct
strong
religious
humorous
ironic
domestic
unselfish
...some of these qualities have a certain je ne sais quoi.
...a slavic quality, something not like feminism, but she's
comfortable in her skin. It's hard to describe. She has a strong
will, but not in a competitive way...
I think a similar woman can be found anywhere, but her type
is relatively rare in the USA.
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IMHO FSUW aren't naturally better looking, they just do a lot more with what they have. It's not just how they dress or the fact that they tend to be in better shape. It's also how they walk, and their overall enhanced femininity.
Well... I dunno about that. I have dated an assortment of women in my lifetime from different ethnicities and I've found that FSUW have a look about them that makes them standout amongst the rest. I'm not saying that they are the end all, be all when it comes to women. Everyone has their preference as to whom they are attracted to. When I visited Ukraine, I saw lots and lots of beautiful women there and there was DISTINCT difference between them and AW. Are there hotties here in the States? Of course there are, but the Slavic look of an FSUW give them an advantage in my opinion (And of course this just my opinion)
Tag
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To me many seem more gentle and sweet than a lot of U.S. women (and that is really an overgeneralization, but there you have it)
.
That made me laugh out loud.
You evidently have spent zero time with FSUW.
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There have been numerous scientific studies done that have found that men with attractive wives makes for happier, more supportive husbands and thus happier wives and happier marriages. We can say that's 'shallow' but hey it's our biological wiring and science doesn't lie. It is what it is deny it at your peril.
There are also numerous "scientific" studies done that have found that women with wealthy husbands make for happier, more supportive wives and thus happier husbands and happier marriages. We can say that's shallow but hey it's our biological wiring and science doesn't lie.
So, unless you are making a six figure salary by your 40's, as a man, you are a loser who will never satisfy a woman.
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Boethius those studies have merit, BUT nothing is black and white. There are poor, uneducated, unattractive people who are happily married too. And rich educated attractive people who are miserable.
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I was being facetious.
Looks fade over time. It may be what brings a couple together, but it won't sustain a marriage.
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Of COURSE it won't. That's why I stopped writing the hot bitchy girl (read my earlier posts on this thread) But it DOES help :) I have science backing me up, you just have your opinion :P
Ok, to spell it out to folks there are MANY things that make a marriage happy OK?!?!? I'm just pointing out a few individual factors that are helpful. OK?!?!!? Glad we got that settled.
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I read those studies. Pseudo science, and I would bet that half the couples they interviewed are now divorced. One of those studies was conducted on newlyweds.
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I read those studies. Pseudo science, and I would bet that half the couples they interviewed are now divorced. One of those studies was conducted on newlyweds.
A very unscientific way to put it "I bet half are divorced" yeah what do you back that up with?!?! Also psychology, the entire field, is often referred to as a pseudo science. Not because it's not valid, but because it's not like physics where an experiment can be repeated with the same results 100% of the time, in most instances.
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40% of newlyweds divorce. That isn't pseudoscience, it's a statistic.
Think with your heart/intuition if you want success.
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When I visited Ukraine, I saw lots and lots of beautiful women there and there was DISTINCT difference between them and AW. Are there hotties here in the States? Of course there are,
People upthread say those hotties in the States are in college but you're right, there is a distinct difference and every Western man who visits the FSU will see that difference.
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I know that this post is old to respond to but wanted to make a statement do not believe all you hear if its not backed up with evidence.
Just wanted to make a statement of truth and honesty here.
True anyone can claim anything but Cinderella1 is a very good website think wrf101 mentioned this as well at start of this thread.
The site that recommends Cinderella1 and other sites is owned by Dave Stevens in past now by Fred they are not affiliated by Cinderella1, completely diffent sites and owners.
Personally knows that the people behind marriage agency scams investigates all their recommends matchmakers sites in person at their offices in Ukraine, so whats on their gold list is good sites truly and fully reviewed and honest sites to find a girl on to marry.
They screens out most or many of the scam sites to avoid.
About Cinderella1 talked with them they would ban any married girl and refund their clients fully if any girl were found out were married.
So if anyone claimed to find a married girl at Cinderella1 and is a member this also must be backed up by real evidence in order to get a full refund and get the girl banned from the marriage matchmaker, not just empty talk and "photos" must exist social media vk status or something alike that proves the girls is married by their own statement other forms of evidence, to be frank this is very hard to prove outside of ukraine.
For those living in Ukraine its possible to prove if hire a detective to find out the girls passport and their see if they are singel or married, but most will not do this or have the money or time to do this.
Seen claims from 1 person and his small group of people that they supposedly finded "married" girls on Cinderella1 by finding out their girls vk profiles seeing their pictures but this is not proven those girls vk status were not shown.
Rogerrab were is your evidence for your claims were is the vk profiles status shown that any of the girls at cinderella1 were married?
Do not bash the few honest sites out there without any evidence...
Personally talked to this girl he listed on vk link she is singel and she is both a teacher and a model part time and she had a trip to China.
Her pictures mean 0 as it aint her boyfriend....
She is not their top earners Cinderella1 very honest they do never pay their girls ever spoken with the owners Gregory and the other owner Carl Loeber in past.
Of course you can trust Gregory as he is american and the other american owner Carl Loeber of Cinderella1.
Not all Americans is involved in scams of the Ukraine matchmaking dating scam fields...
Seeing some of Cinderella1 girls in marriage photos does not prove anything maybe they been married in past now divorced maybe they were on a wedding and they themselves not married could be many reasons.
From what many that investigated Cinderella1 founded out is that it exist no true honest real evidence that they do anything fishy.
Even people can contact Cinderella1s members that tested out their service and hear what they have to say just go to Cinderella1 webpage and contact them and you will get contact details of their happy customers.
Cinderella1 very honest.
Another important thing to mention about Cinderella1 matchmaker is that they are relaying real postal letters to their girls from their clients not emails.
As said before try to use low cost monthly sites with good online reputation or free sites avoid agencies.
A word about Mordinson finded this online check it out bit.ly/2PnPTGk before joining them.
Rogerrab both marriagebynatali and dreamconnections both today are scam agency sites dreamconnection more honest but lately not that honest avoid and mordinson not good at all not honest pay per email letter exist honest many true complaints about mordinson.
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I know that this post is old to respond to but wanted to make a statement do not believe all you hear if its not backed up with evidence.
Just wanted to make a statement of truth and honesty here.
True anyone can claim anything but Cinderella1 is a very good website think wrf101 mentioned this as well at start of this thread.
The site that recommends Cinderella1 and other sites is owned by Dave Stevens in past now by Fred they are not affiliated by Cinderella1, completely diffent sites and owners.
Personally knows that the people behind marriage agency scams investigates all their recommends matchmakers sites in person at their offices in Ukraine, so whats on their gold list is good sites truly and fully reviewed and honest sites to find a girl on to marry.
They screens out most or many of the scam sites to avoid.
About Cinderella1 talked with them they would ban any married girl and refund their clients fully if any girl were found out were married.
So if anyone claimed to find a married girl at Cinderella1 and is a member this also must be backed up by real evidence in order to get a full refund and get the girl banned from the marriage matchmaker, not just empty talk and "photos" must exist social media vk status or something alike that proves the girls is married by their own statement other forms of evidence, to be frank this is very hard to prove outside of ukraine.
For those living in Ukraine its possible to prove if hire a detective to find out the girls passport and their see if they are singel or married, but most will not do this or have the money or time to do this.
Seen claims from 1 person and his small group of people that they supposedly finded "married" girls on Cinderella1 by finding out their girls vk profiles seeing their pictures but this is not proven those girls vk status were not shown.
Rogerrab were is your evidence for your claims were is the vk profiles status shown that any of the girls at cinderella1 were married?
Do not bash the few honest sites out there without any evidence...
Personally talked to this girl he listed on vk link she is singel and she is both a teacher and a model part time and she had a trip to China.
Her pictures mean 0 as it aint her boyfriend....
She is not their top earners Cinderella1 very honest they do never pay their girls ever spoken with the owners Gregory and the other owner Carl Loeber in past.
Of course you can trust Gregory as he is american and the other american owner Carl Loeber of Cinderella1.
Not all Americans is involved in scams of the Ukraine matchmaking dating scam fields...
Seeing some of Cinderella1 girls in marriage photos does not prove anything maybe they been married in past now divorced maybe they were on a wedding and they themselves not married could be many reasons.
From what many that investigated Cinderella1 founded out is that it exist no true honest real evidence that they do anything fishy.
Even people can contact Cinderella1s members that tested out their service and hear what they have to say just go to Cinderella1 webpage and contact them and you will get contact details of their happy customers.
Cinderella1 very honest.
Another important thing to mention about Cinderella1 matchmaker is that they are relaying real postal letters to their girls from their clients not emails.
As said before try to use low cost monthly sites with good online reputation or free sites avoid agencies.
A word about Mordinson finded this online check it out bit.ly/2PnPTGk before joining them.
Rogerrab both marriagebynatali and dreamconnections both today are scam agency sites dreamconnection more honest but lately not that honest avoid and mordinson not good at all not honest pay per email letter exist honest many true complaints about mordinson.
When some agencies or matchmakers are bashed by an other "professional" i generally have some suspicions about the quality of the informations delivered, considering that's an internal battle.
However i spent some time to check out what has been told about Mordinson (i contacted them 9 years ago myself) and DM and both are raising serious concerns.I came to the conclusion that i would never used him for myself, considering the very high price asked by DM (I already noticed this price is insane in Ukraine and wrote it on the forum recently) except for the benefit of the owner.
I had believed on DM but many proofs are gathered that many women in socials are just recruited in speed mode in the nearby agencies few time before the tour.
Therefore the conclusion is always the same, cut off the go between and go directly to such agencies, they are not a lot more to say I think.
You find before your trip a, old lady professional terp and pay her 1000$ a week ( i doubt that she will refuse such bargain, she will be your slave night and day) and bring her everywhere and ask her to find you a flat, come to the meetings of course, and tell you the truth every time.
Ask her her assistance and believe me you will hardly expense half of 5000$ with a beautiful flat, your private Uber taxi and so on for 8 days of meeting including fees for meeting agencies girls.
My advice is to tell the agency : I will bring my personal terp so I know that you will loose some money, so rather than pay the fee 50$ I will pay you 75$.
Agency should be very happy because this is directly 25$ in his pocket and don't have to share with the terp if they want.
Many men needs validation and to rreassured. Is the price of sweet words and paternal care should cost five grands (not including the fare and many things)? It's up to you.
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While many Russian and Ukrainian women use Facebook, the most popular social media site in Eastern Europe is VKontakte. If it looks a lot like Facebook, that is because Pavel Durov, the founder, appropriated software from Facebook to start the company. (Pavel was stripped of his company a couple of years ago by Kremlin machinations so that Russia had control over the content of the premier social website operating in the country.)
You can find it on www.vk.com
Sometimes you will hear of another social website operating in Eastern Europe. It is www.Odnoklassniki.ru. It translates, I think, into 'Classmates'. It is not as popular as VK. And none of my fiancee's friends use it. I have not heard of any of the forum users having success interacting with women on Odnoklassniki.
Good luck on your search.
Jone's 'advice' in 2015 sucked then, too
OK ( Odnoklassniki) is, and was more popular with 'older' ladies and is where I traced SC - her having not logged in to dating profiles I found ...
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Cinderella1 hmm
What is 'honest' about posting profiles of ladies that use photos that are not exactly recent ?
..and that are found on other pay per letter scam sites such as
http://www.anastasiadate.com/profile-ukrainian-russian-lady-larisa-1803062.htm
http://www.bridge-of-love.com/russian-brides/beautiful-Ukraine-woman-Larisa-125652.html
http://m.marmeladies.com/profiles/nice-miss-larisa-kiev-1545124/
Really?
Do you believe our members are THAT stupid ?...The image I posted is over three years old..
PS: For members - like our 'expert' Jone ... this is from the 'lessor known' RU social media site Odnoklassniki.ru
The simplest search using yandex images and knowing FSU Geography busts such 'honest' sites as Cinderella1
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Well done MSB,
So the question
to Cinderella1 is now :
From where you girls are coming, because if it's a shared database whith X Y or Z it worths IMHO
ZERO.
I only trust local agencies who knows the girls of their cities.
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my wife is on klassniki!
if you were searching for 40+ yr olds....this is a good spot to look
but russki, you monolinguists
but some of those photos on klassniki look kinda scary to me...
just sayin...
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What I researched and founded out talking with Cinderella1 owner Gregory is:
Cinderella1 do not share any database but do this:
"
Many marriage agencies accept all women in to there agency even though they are
not marriage oriented in order to build up there database, we do not.
We personally interview each lady in depth
to make sure that her intentions are sincere, honorable and marriage oriented.
We only accept women in our agency who express these high standards to us.
We also own a English school and a photography studio here in Poltava.
With these other enterprises it helps us keep our expenditures low
therefore giving us the opportunity to offer you reasonable prices and nine free offers."
Cinderella1 knows their girls locally of their cities in Ukraine.
Regarding the photos of Cinderella1 girls they are natural no photoshop the girls themselves chooses what photos they wanna use that best match their apperance either if its newer or older it is up to the girls themselves to choose.
Cinderella1 girls themselves chooses the photos that they think match their apperances best and that they think is their best photos.
Also as using live video chat one can see their photos match their apperance very accurate.
Cinderella1 girls would never use photos that not match their apperance.
About the scam pay per online letter sites they steal pictures and videos of real girls from honest sites and upload to their scam sites often this happends with fake translator playing them and fake live video no sound recorded feeds, but at Cinderella1 you get real live Skype video chat with sound and clear honest interaction from the real girls at Cinderella1.
In general girls in Ukraine take care of their health much and eat healthy and often age slower in apperance not always but often look younger and more in shape then other girls in other parts of the World.
For more quastions go to cinderella1.com and talk to the owners Gregory or call them phone number at their matchmaker site.
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Cinderella1 girls would never use photos that not match their apperance.
I already proved that is patent nonsense
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I already proved that is patent nonsense
MSB, at this stage i would not disqualify an agency because one profile is in some others (and not the best) as we know that profiles are also stolen.
But Cinderella i am more intrigued by the fact that you have ladies from Kiev, Kharkov, Poltava and Vinnitsa.
May you explain us how is possible to stretch yourself in those cities (I know 3 on 4) to manage an office in each, meeting all the girls and be present to welcome a client?
May you explain us how you do this?
Other question what is the price of fee for a meeting, and how much for a terp (per hour)?
Thank you for your answer.
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Haha sorry me a bit too used to Ukrainian girls sorry .
First I did not get your point.. I know personally girls age way slower in Ukraine a girl I saw that were 60 years old looked like 35 years old...
Larisas pictures is the ones she used to use on Cinderella1 I believe they are recent and that is how she looks now.
Some girls in Ukraine can look about 20 years or more younger then they are on the age number.
Larisas pictures is recent it is how she looks today. As said before Cinderella1 girls will never use pictures of themselves that do not reflect how they look.
Girls in Ukraine is not like girls in our home countries. I seen Ukrainian girls that were in age 45 that looked 20 years old...
This is not nonsense many girls in Ukraine look many years younger then they really are on the age because they eat healthy and work out and good genes I guess.
Of course in very high age like 90 years old then of course the girls in Ukraine will look older.
"Funny reality for the older readers: also you will see that even the old Ukrainian women still look 20 years younger compared to their Western competition if you are 50+ and looking for a new relationship or date. Real tale! Appearance are very important and a lot of Ukrainian ladies learn this at a early age."
http://linea12.com/ukrainian-ladies-the-things-i-discovered-from-5-3/ (http://linea12.com/ukrainian-ladies-the-things-i-discovered-from-5-3/)
I did first not get it but Larisa looks as her pictures on Cinderella1 now..
What goes for the pay per online letters scam sites that stolen her pictures and videos from honest sites those sites avoid it aint real her but translators impersonating.
Larisa on Cinderella1 she is beutiful but me beeing used to Ukrainian girls well usually many look like 20 years younger some even more and some less compared to our girls in our home countries it is a big difference.
You can also verify this with many of Cinderella1 girls they look as their pictures in live video at Skype.
Gregory owner at honest Cinderella1 is a very good person he goes by treat others as you wanna be treated saw what he discussed on his social media today with other people.
I will await to see what Gregory says about the other quastion as soon I have the answer from Gregory I reply again.
If you want faster answer how Cinderella1 verify girls in different cities in Ukraine feel free to contact Cinderella1 directly.
For more quastions contact honest cinderella1.com and its owners as Gregory he can answer all your quastions about their girls and culture differences and so on and also how they verify their girls in other cities in Ukraine.
Our team has recommended Cinderella1 to 1000s of western guys none came back yet so far having a honest true complaint.
In our many 8 years around of helping western guys out finding honest Ukrainian Matchmakers Cinderella1 is the best. Other honest matchmakers in our experience interfere in ways that is not ok.
Of course it do exist a few more matchmakers but the owners of Cinderella1 stands out for most honesty we seen so far our team seen much.
We are not gurus or experts but our team stands for whats right and true that develops real marriages with real honest Ukrainian girls through a real honest matchmaker.
To honestly help people out just that is a beutiful thing initself.
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You didn't answer to ANY of my questions.
Make your answer shorter rather than to ad.
Five lines should be enough to answer to my 3 questions.
What were my questions ? (so 4 quesitons to answer sorry lol)
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You didn't answer to ANY of my questions.
Make your answer shorter rather than to ad.
Five lines should be enough to answer to my 3 questions.
What were my questions ? (so 4 quesitons to answer sorry lol)
Frankly, I think that the poster is full of it.
There is no way in hell that the writings are that of someone native to the United States. The use of the English language is butchered from one end of the post to the other. Inasmuch as the poster is attempting to have us believe he is from the US, it makes one wonder what else he is making up.
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Patagonie
Do not worry will answer your quastions as soon Gregory replies to your quastions I sent your quastions to Gregory at Cinderella1.
I wait on owner Gregorys response of Cinderella1 as soon I get a response I will write the response here short.
You will get your short response as soon as possible.
General information:
Our team is based in United States which I am part of my primary language is not English correct.
I admitt very guilty of this yes me and our team is big guilty of helping many western guys out leading them to honest matchmakers in Ukraine we been doing this for many years now as said before.
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WHAT ???? GREGORY IS BACK?
We are still waiting for the guarantee's of answers from his last appearance !! :shock: :ROFL:
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Was thinking the same thing.......
Wondered what happened to him after he left A-Date.
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Patagonie answers to your quastions about cinderella1 matchmaker.
Me says:
"At the forum Gregory they ask this quastion answer in detail so I can reply them" :
Patagonie says:
"
But Cinderella i am more intrigued by the fact that you have ladies from Kiev, Kharkov, Poltava and Vinnitsa.
May you explain us how is possible to stretch yourself in those cities (I know 3 on 4) to manage an office in each, meeting all the girls and be present to welcome a client?
May you explain us how you do this?
Other question what is the price of fee for a meeting, and how much for a terp (per hour)?
Thank you for your answer. "
Gregory S owner Cinderella1 says:
"I state on the website I will met them in Kiev. Most clients enter Ukraine by way of Kiev airport.$100 per 1st meeting, translator $25 a hour.
Interviews are done on Skype if needed."
Me says:
"True however what they at forum is wondering is how cinderella1 verify their girls in several diffrent cities how you meet the girls in diffrent cities do u have several officies one in each city ?"
Gregory S owner Cinderella1 says:
"Yes
Office in each city"
Me says:
"Ok perfect this will have to do as answers."
Gregory S owner Cinderella1 says:
"Thank you"
Time Late in Ukraine now.
For more quastions contact owners Gregory S at direct at cinderella1.com honest matchmaker they have all contact details there. Gregory S owner of Cinderella1 can answer all your quastions about his matchmaker best.
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Patagonie answers to your quastions about cinderella1 matchmaker.
Me says:
"At the forum Gregory they ask this quastion answer in detail so I can reply them" :
Patagonie says:
"
But Cinderella i am more intrigued by the fact that you have ladies from Kiev, Kharkov, Poltava and Vinnitsa.
May you explain us how is possible to stretch yourself in those cities (I know 3 on 4) to manage an office in each, meeting all the girls and be present to welcome a client?
May you explain us how you do this?
Other question what is the price of fee for a meeting, and how much for a terp (per hour)?
Thank you for your answer. "
Gregory S owner Cinderella1 says:
"I state on the website I will met them in Kiev. Most clients enter Ukraine by way of Kiev airport.$100 per 1st meeting, translator $25 a hour.
Interviews are done on Skype if needed."
Me says:
"True however what they at forum is wondering is how cinderella1 verify their girls in several diffrent cities how you meet the girls in diffrent cities do u have several officies one in each city ?"
Gregory S owner Cinderella1 says:
"Yes
Office in each city"
Me says:
"Ok perfect this will have to do as answers."
Gregory S owner Cinderella1 says:
"Thank you"
Time Late in Ukraine now.
For more quastions contact owners Gregory S at direct at cinderella1.com honest matchmaker they have all contact details there. Gregory S owner of Cinderella1 can answer all your quastions about his matchmaker best.
Yeah, your an American all right...... :ROFL:
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" 60 years old looked like 35 years old..."
yo machick...
you should get your glasses checked, because it sounds like you can't see too clearly
because the ONLY way a 60 yr old Ukrainian woman is gonna look like she's 35...
is if she's using a 25 yr old photo, which is probably about what most of 'em do...
so enjoy the pretty pictures fellas
the map is not the territory
and neither is a picture of the map...
see, this is exactly what you noobs have to look out for...
there is no substitute for you noobs to just go out into the jungle on your own...
but most of you just don't measure up for this approach...
so you want the quickest, easiest, CHEAPEST shortcut
and there are plenty of people out there selling shortcuts to noobs
but these shortcuts are worthless...
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Live video at honest sites do not lie or free Skype live video with honest Ukrainian girls nor do my eye sight neither do reel meetings Ukrainian girls in real life many look many years younger some look 25 years younger some more some less in real meetings.
No it is not what most of them do...
In real life meetings :
"Funny reality for the older readers: also you will see that even the old Ukrainian women still look 20 years younger compared to their Western competition if you are 50+ and looking for a new relationship or date. Real tale! Appearance are very important and a lot of Ukrainian ladies learn this at a early age."
http://linea12.com/ukrainian-ladies-the-things-i-discovered-from-5-3/ (http://linea12.com/ukrainian-ladies-the-things-i-discovered-from-5-3/)
Owner Gregory S is American and other owner Carl Loeber is American owners of Cinderella1 matchmaker.
Repeat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrJe3ZbHk6Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrJe3ZbHk6Q)
General information:
Our team is based in United States which I am part of my primary language is not English correct. My roots is European.
I admitt very guilty of this yes me and our team is big guilty of helping many western guys out leading them to honest matchmakers in Ukraine we been doing this for many years now as said before.
I know about many Americans that do not write perfect English also it is late in Ukraine Gregory S tired before now likely sleeping.
More quastions easiest contact them directly at cinderella1.com you can also call them you will hear the owners Gregory S and Carl Loeber speak English fluently in the same way they speak in USA because the owners are Americans.
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MSB, at this stage i would not disqualify an agency because one profile is in some others (and not the best) as we know that profiles are also stolen.
But Cinderella i am more intrigued by the fact that you have ladies from Kiev, Kharkov, Poltava and Vinnitsa.
May you explain us how is possible to stretch yourself in those cities (I know 3 on 4) to manage an office in each, meeting all the girls and be present to welcome a client?
May you explain us how you do this?
Other question what is the price of fee for a meeting, and how much for a terp (per hour)?
Thank you for your answer.
Pat,
That was but one series of images that misrepresent.
Suggest if the members wish to check other images v. more current ones available on social media....you'd realise this is an all too familiar practise.
ANYONE using such a biz model is a MUPPET ready to have their wallet raided.
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Biz model ... Many girls in Ukraine look much younger and many girls in Ukraine look like models not all but many and that is initself not a sign to get drain in wallet....
Its about how the Ukrainian girls is as a person honest or not.
Do not judge a book by its cover or condem by its cover.
Many girls of the honest sort the good girls in Ukraine can be very honest and kind nomatter how good or model like and young they look.
Know many people and girls in Ukraine with greater appearence then Larisa that is super honest and no golddiggers that also look like 20 years younger then the girls in our home countries.
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What a joke. This guy should go on TV, he would be laughed at by everyone.
The women in Ukraine look just like the women in the rest of the world. They might be a bit skinnier, but, overall they are the same. They age the same in looks.
I went to the website to take a gander. (I'm sure our intrepid poster will understand that idiom.) The girls that were displayed on the front page were airbrushed and some had their heads moved from other pictures. This is no more, no less than any other internet based presence.
Glad I wore cargo pants. I can button up the pockets so no one gets to my wallet without my permission.
Tell Gregory hello from us. Too bad he had to leave A-Date. I hear they're not doing so well any more.
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Whaaat? !
Who is discussing Larisa's character?
Her profile images do not reflect her current looks and that IS misrepresentation.. PERIOD.
The pay per letter / chat 'biz model' needs to misrepresent to survive ...?
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Seriously go and meet some Ukrainian girls in real life they are not like the rest girls else in World many look younger and many look like models.
About Larisa her apperance do reflect her current look Period you can find this out in live Skype video with her at Cinderella1.
In real life meetings :
"Funny reality for the older readers: also you will see that even the old Ukrainian women still look 20 years younger compared to their Western competition if you are 50+ and looking for a new relationship or date. Real tale! Appearance are very important and a lot of Ukrainian ladies learn this at a early age."
http://linea12.com/ukrainian-ladies-the-things-i-discovered-from-5-3/ (http://linea12.com/ukrainian-ladies-the-things-i-discovered-from-5-3/)
Biz model .... Cinderella1 do not need any Biz model to survive have you meet Ukrainian girls whats wrong with you?
Never seen a beutiful Ukrainian girl?
Usually Ukrainian girls look much younger and model like you will find this out if you meet some Ukrainian girls in real.
Gregory S has never been involved with Anastasiadate scam site that Gregory you refer to is another person.
Cinderella1 is not pay per online letter relaying real postal letters to their girls not emails.
People who know Ukraine is the ones who gets the last laugh its a common fact Ukrainian girls age slower in apperance nomatter if you get that or not.
No point of arguing this more.
The wise will get it the fools will keep arguing BS hope they grow up and wise up.
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Seriously go and meet some Ukrainian girls in real life they are not like the rest girls else in World many look younger and many look like models.
You may be addressing Jone, but most of us involved in this thread have had / have FSU partners and know how to find one..and advise those who do not as to type of sites to avoid.....
About Larisa her apperance do reflect her current look Period you can find this out in live Skype video with her at Cinderella1.
)))
Are you suggesting the image I posted of Larisa...which is at least three years old.. is not her?
In real life meetings :
"Funny reality for the older readers: also you will see that even the old Ukrainian women still look 20 years younger compared to their Western competition if you are 50+ and looking for a new relationship or date. Real tale! Appearance are very important and a lot of Ukrainian ladies learn this at a early age."
http://linea12.com/ukrainian-ladies-the-things-i-discovered-from-5-3/ (http://linea12.com/ukrainian-ladies-the-things-i-discovered-from-5-3/)
Biz model .... Cinderella1 do not need any Biz model to survive have you meet Ukrainian girls whats wrong with you?
There are PLENTY more suitable biz models to find FSU ladies...
Never seen a beutiful Ukrainian girl?
Usually Ukrainian girls look much younger and model like you will find this out if you meet some Ukrainian girls in real.
Most members have seen plenty and know the type of sites to avoid.
The sites where ladies post their own profiles and more representitive photos are the ones serious men should visit..
Agencies are a biz model that (thank goodness) are nigh on DEAD..
Gregory S has never been involved with Anastasiadate scam site that Gregory you refer to is another person.
Cinderella1 is not pay per online letter relaying real postal letters to their girls not emails.
People who know Ukraine is he ones who gets the last laugh its a common fact Ukrainian girls age slower in apperance nomatter if you get that or not.
No point of arguing this more.
The wise will get it the fools will keep arguing BS hope they grow up and wise up.
I have no idea who runs or is involved ...MY
point is that this site ..clearly.. misrepresents..
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What a joke. This guy should go on TV, he would be laughed at by everyone.
The women in Ukraine look just like the women in the rest of the world. They might be a bit skinnier, but, overall they are the same. They age the same in looks.
I went to the website to take a gander. (I'm sure our intrepid poster will understand that idiom.) The girls that were displayed on the front page were airbrushed and some had their heads moved from other pictures. This is no more, no less than any other internet based presence.
Glad I wore cargo pants. I can button up the pockets so no one gets to my wallet without my permission.
Tell Gregory hello from us. Too bad he had to leave A-Date. I hear they're not doing so well any more.
I’ve been searching for an article all afternoon, but can’t find it atm. It put a group of FSU and American women along side each other fully clothed, wearing make up etc... and then naked and natural (no make up) and there was no difference, you couldn’t tell if they were US or FSU women... they were just women.
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If you meet and had many Ukrainian partners you should know that many ukrainian girls look much younger.
Not all Ukrainians look much younger but many do.
Larisa choosed her pictures herself to list at Cinderella1 I can assure you Larisa neither Cinderella1 do not misrepresent anything it is how she looks...
This can be verified at free live skype video through Cinderella1.
I am sorry you do not get that.
I had many girls from Ukraine I know first hand they look much younger often then they really are. I seen Ukrainian girls in Larisas age that looked even younger and more model like then her.
Last post about this.
Also Cinderella1 very honest no photoshop but natural pictures of their matchmaker girls.
Hope you meet Larisa in person I will tell you what did I say she does look exactly as her pictures she choosed to use on Cinderella1.
It is pointless to argue this futher.
Your head is the only thing that is misleading you in this.
I am in contact and know many Ukrainian model girls that are models most of them look much younger then their age it is a fact regarding Ukrainian girls in general.
The wise wise up the fools talking more bs.
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If you meet and had many Ukrainian partners you should know that many ukrainian girls look much younger.
Not all Ukrainians look much younger but many do.
Larisa choosed her pictures herself to list at Cinderella1 I can assure you Larisa neither Cinderella1 do not misrepresent anything it is how she looks...
This can be verified at free live skype video through Cinderella1.
I am sorry you do not get that.
I had many girls from Ukraine I know first hand they look much younger often then they really are. I seen Ukrainian girls in Larisas age that looked even younger and more model like then her.
Last post about this.
Also Cinderella1 very honest no photoshop but natural pictures of their matchmaker girls.
Hope you meet Larisa in person I will tell you what did I say she does look exactly as her pictures she choosed to use on Cinderella1.
It is pointless to argue this futher.
Your head is the only thing that is misleading you in this.
I am in contact and know many Ukrainian model girls that are models most of them look much younger then their age it is a fact regarding Ukrainian girls in general.
The wise wise up the fools talking more bs.
Can you explain the benefit of spending money with an agency when a guy like myself can join a free site like fdating, build up numerous English speaking contacts in a matter of weeks and visit these women.
Why use an agency when it’s a simple process for even the most basic beginner to meet handfuls of genuine women without the risk of being taken advantage of by a middle man? What do you get for your money and what gives you an advantage over using a free dating site or even an affordable monthly subscription site?
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If you meet and had many Ukrainian partners you should know that many ukrainian girls look much younger.
Not all Ukrainians look much younger but many do.
Once again, few here are disagreeing withe benefits of a FSU partner...
Larisa choosed her pictures herself to list at Cinderella1 I can assure you Larisa neither Cinderella1 do not misrepresent anything it is how she looks...
)))). You need your eyes tested...
This can be verified at free live skype video through Cinderella1.
It can be verified via her profile on Odnoklassniki that you are BUSTED....
I am sorry you do not get that.
I am sorry that you might think you are dealing with idiots who do not know Ukraine / Russia or speak Russian..
LM..
I had many girls from Ukraine I know first hand they look much younger often then they really are. I seen Ukrainian girls in Larisas age that looked even younger and more model like then her.
Last post about this.
Also Cinderella1 very honest no photoshop but natural pictures of their matchmaker girls.
Hope you meet Larisa in person I will tell you what did I say she does look exactly as her pictures she choosed to use on Cinderella1.
It is pointless to argue this futher.
Your head is the only thing that is misleading you in this.
I am in contact and know many Ukrainian model girls that are models most of them look much younger then their age it is a fact regarding Ukrainian girls in general.
The wise wise up the fools talking more bs.
The 'wise' don't try to pull fast ones in places where the people pointing out the sites 'issues' live in the FSU half of the year..
FAR better to use sites such as dmnotify.com fdating, etc.
Many of us wake up with FSU wives and find your 'excuses' risible..
Now run along to a place where you'll find suckers who will believe you..and whose money is easily parted from their wallets.
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" 60 years old looked like 35 years old..."
yo machick...
you should get your glasses checked, because it sounds like you can't see too clearly
because the ONLY way a 60 yr old Ukrainian woman is gonna look like she's 35...
is if she's using a 25 yr old photo, which is probably about what most of 'em do...
so enjoy the pretty pictures fellas
the map is not the territory
and neither is a picture of the map...
see, this is exactly what you noobs have to look out for...
there is no substitute for you noobs to just go out into the jungle on your own...
but most of you just don't measure up for this approach...
so you want the quickest, easiest, CHEAPEST shortcut
and there are plenty of people out there selling shortcuts to noobs
but these shortcuts are worthless...
60 is pushing it, my 48 yr old Ex can easily pass for early 30s, and still blows the 30 yr old women away in looks. Im so glad I went in the early 90s, when there was no photoshop. It saved time.
BUT what older men looking have to remember, older FSU women have aged on the INSIDE. American women and FSU will both hit the WALL in their 40s. The WALL is undefeated. FSU women will turn into Stalin era Babushkas on the inside even if they look great on the outside.
There is a good reason why Ukrainian men are not dating these 'good looking' women. I feel sorry for any sucker who would date my Ex now.
For older guys, just go get yourself a beautiful adorable submissive Asian 20 year old. There is a new crop of MILLIONS each year. Sure, they will get the wall too, but at least you get 20 years. FSU is (imo) ideal for young guys looking for a 20 yr old
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60 is pushing it, my 48 yr old Ex can easily pass for early 30s, and still blows the 30 yr old women away in looks. Im so glad I went in the early 90s, when there was no photoshop. It saved time.
BUT what older men looking have to remember, older FSU women have aged on the INSIDE. American women and FSU will both hit the WALL in their 40s. The WALL is undefeated. FSU women will turn into Stalin era Babushkas on the inside even if they look great on the outside.
There is a good reason why Ukrainian men are not dating these 'good looking' women. I feel sorry for any sucker who would date my Ex now.
For older guys, just go get yourself a beautiful adorable submissive Asian 20 year old. There is a new crop of MILLIONS each year. Sure, they will get the wall too, but at least you get 20 years. FSU is (imo) ideal for young guys looking for a 20 yr old
Yes correct I took the example of what I experienced in real that with 60 year old is an example not always so.
But yes you correct many Ukrainians look many years younger like 20.
Regarding that many ukrainians aged in personality even that they look much younger true that is part of life.
It is the opposite however many Ukrainian girls do not want their ukrainian men because too much drinking many not wanna work lazy and many not faithful that is what my girl who work as a very famous very attractive model worldwide in her 20s years of age from Ukraine told me a few days ago in phone.
Wish all honest good guys the very best in your search for love and marriage either it be in Ukraine or elsewhere.
The thing that all is getting older in personality even with younger looks it varies talked to many ukrainian girls in older age that were young in personality and had a very young beutiful model look.
Why good honest Ukrainian girls is to prefer they are very family oriented with a marriage in mind and very faithful.
Not against asian girls or alike but for marriage and family Ukrainian good girls is to prefer but people are free to choose what they want.
Russian girls from Russia of the honest kind very good too and girls from Belarus very good of the honest ones and honest girls from China very serious not discounting that.
Beutiful Asian girl nothing wrong with that either.
Ukrainian age difference that is ok is between 10 to 15 years heard about bigger age gap can happend but is not the norm.
Nah hit the wall in 40s no but to build a serious family life with family kids well for that too late age is not ideal but hit the wall in their 40s no can not generalise all girls like that. Beeing in 40s is no high age at all especially for girls in Ukraine or Russia or Belarus either in apperance or personality for most part.
About photoshop does not matter in real live skype video chat and real live meetings Ukrainian girls overall look much younger especially those that works as models as profession, but also others that look attractive of the Ukrainians look much younger some are also younger as personality not all but some.
Personally yes I am experienced but young when it comes to girls in Ukraine and Russia both options is good when you find honest girls there.
Ukrainian and Russian girls especially and girls from Belarus keep fit and healthy they take care of their apperance and health way more then girls from our home countries that many not all but many getting fat and is some too much feminism and age harder on outside.
For older guys not serious for family life and mostly want one thing with much younger girls 20 year asian girls submissive might be for you.
Exist many exceptions however concerning submissivness of oriential girls thanks ML for pointing this out true it is an individual thing as much in life is not all the same:
(What ML is saying below is true also Asian or oriential girls can be very bossy at home and in private, but submissive in public.
A friend of mine is together with an Asian girl that is very bossy at home and in private he told me this beeing happy to admit it, but in public his Asian girl is submissive.)
Those serious for family life and marriage good honest Ukrainian girls is a very good choice or honest girl from Russia usually look much younger also of the attractive ones and many younger in personality but mature also in same way.
You know were to find honest Ukrainian girls verified serious honest ready for family and marriage even some willing to move to your country with you, not all is willing to do that as they love Ukraine with its culture and traditions and family and friends too much to leave, but some is willing to move to your country.
Many in Ukraine hate the poverty of course but still love Ukraine and its culture and traditions very much making it hard for many of them to leave their country.
The few honest good girls in Ukraine is very family oriented for their future huspand very submissive usually in mutual love care consent and they are not extreme feminism and they are not materialistic or greedy. Money has little value to them they value other things in life much more and true honest soul connection and love as long they have what they need to survive.
They do not earn much in Ukraine not even in high educate jobs like 200 to around 300 usd a month or alike it were more difficult to survive in Ukraine in past better now just avoid the places in Ukraine were its war common sence in those parts it is terrible...
Things does not cost that much in Ukraine for Ukrainians but still they have very little tiny salery... They barely survive in Ukraine and by our standards in our home countries overall Ukrainians have it very poor of the major population over there.
Some in Ukraine is very rich but most is pretty poor nomatter high educated jobs.
For us visiting Ukraine we find most things very cheap there for most of us at least depending on how much people earn in their home countries.
"UKRAINIAN LADIES: THE THINGS I DISCOVERED FROM 5 YEARS DATING GIRLS THAT ARE UKRAINIAN!
Funny reality for the older readers: also you will see that even the old Ukrainian women still look 20 years younger compared to their Western competition if you are 50+ and looking for a new relationship or date. Real tale! Appearance are very important and a lot of Ukrainian ladies learn this at a early age."
Whole:
http://linea12.com/ukrainian-ladies-the-things-i-discovered-from-5-3/ (http://linea12.com/ukrainian-ladies-the-things-i-discovered-from-5-3/)
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"60 is pushing it, my 48 yr old Ex can easily pass for early 30s, and still blows the 30 yr old women away in looks."
in order to do that, my wife needed a facelift and veneers, total bill almost $50,000
but she can EASILY pass for 35, and after coming in out of the cold with her cheeks flushed, maybe 30...
you should note that my wife is 6'1" tall and quite fit...
the best part, is she thinks this was all for her benefit, and she showers me with gratitude...
but to me honest, it was more for my own pleasure...
my wife knows to perfection how to give me the kind of sex I want...
she reaches deep down into the hidden corners of my mind...
and takes my deepest, darkest desires, with all the things I fantasize about
and she teases me with it...temps me with it...
AND she has the sexiest Russian accent you could ever imagine
like a cat purring
to me, my wife is kinda like a Russian Elizabeth Hurley, pretty much my favorite type of woman...
what a sweet wife and life I have...
spossiba bog!!
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BUT what older men looking have to remember, older FSU women have aged on the INSIDE. American women and FSU will both hit the WALL in their 40s. The WALL is undefeated. FSU women will turn into Stalin era Babushkas on the inside even if they look great on the outside.
There is a good reason why Ukrainian men are not dating these 'good looking' women. I feel sorry for any sucker who would date my Ex now.
WOW . . . this is some pretty deep stuff.
Would take me a long time to decipher what it all means, and whether I can relate to it.
But thanks for the thoughts.
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For older guys, just go get yourself a beautiful adorable submissive Asian 20 year old. There is a new crop of MILLIONS each year. Sure, they will get the wall too, but at least you get 20 years. FSU is (imo) ideal for young guys looking for a 20 yr old
I don't have any current experience with this.
I did spend a lot of time and lost my virginity to Asian gals back when I was 17 and in US Navy.
However, these were mostly very short term relationships and no time (or desire) to analyze the type of personality they had.
However, surely there must be a lot of offsetting negatives to go along with the positives you posit for Asian gals.
And I know for a fact from discussions with older Asian professional couples that I know very well here in USA . . . they are all uniform in stating that the females really do run the relationship.
The men readily admit that their wives are the boss at home . . . and they don't seem unhappy about it.
Interesting too that, when the Asian couple are together, it seems that the wife is very deferring to her husband and all men nearby. But in private it seems the women are in control.
I remember recently visiting with a 70 year old ethnic Chinese man who was a retired medical doctor associated with the local university. We were talking for some time when I looked around and noticed that his wife was standing in the doorway looking at us. She had apparently been there quite a while, but she remained silent and away from us . . . until the husband noticed her also and motioned for her to come sit and join us. Then she readily joined in the conversation; and she was highly educated also. They both had immigrated here some 40 years ago from Taiwan and obtained their post bachelor's degree education here in USA.
Just an example of how the oriental wife (at least in this age bracket) can follow all the traditional roles and be submissive in public . . . and yet they dominate when in private . . . at least as the men tell me.
So I have my doubts when the 'submissive' nature of oriental women is touted.