visa for new wife and her two sons?

[JayH]

Bad joss to deny a man his rights.

LT-- it is also innappropriate to deny a woman the opprortunity to move on with her life.Too often the man uses the child in an attempt to exert control over an ex.
The courts in Ukraine have been stacked in the fathers favour in the past--regardless of how "bad" a father he has been.
Stories are rife in Ukraine of payments for signatures on release documents.

Of course-- the potential for a child to have a better life also needs to be considered-- but it seems that is not something the courts take into account.

[Photo Guy]

Tiberius, What in the world are you talking about???
My fiancee is on good terms with her husband. Don't imply that she's doing something wrong. If that's what you're implying, you had better elaborate and explain yourself.

[Boethius]

LT-- it is also innappropriate to deny a woman the opprortunity to move on with her life.Too often the man uses the child in an attempt to exert control over an ex.
The courts in Ukraine have been stacked in the fathers favour in the past--regardless of how "bad" a father he has been.
Stories are rife in Ukraine of payments for signatures on release documents.

Of course-- the potential for a child to have a better life also needs to be considered-- but it seems that is not something the courts take into account.

No, the courts generally are stacked against fathers.  It is rare for a father to obtain custody of a child in Ukraine.

If a father does not wish a child to move, that should be respected.  If you had children, you probably wouldn't want them to be moved to a country you could not visit freely, being raised by another man.  The selfishness at times noted here in this regard is mind boggling.  I also wonder what kind of mother would separate her children from a father who loves them.

It is a different story if the father is not involved in his child's life.

[JayH]

No, the courts generally are stacked against fathers.  It is rare for a father to obtain custody of a child in Ukraine.

If a father does not wish a child to move, that should be respected.  If you had children, you probably wouldn't want them to be moved to a country you could not visit freely, being raised by another man.  The selfishness at times noted here in this regard is mind boggling.  I also wonder what kind of mother would separate her children from a father who loves them.

It is a different story if the father is not involved in his child's life.

I was not referring to custody--but the ability to get consent to leave Ukraine.
This is difficult even when the father has given no support at any time and played no part in the childs life.
You are getting some quite different issues confused here.

[lordtiberius]

Tiberius, What in the world are you talking about???
My fiancee is on good terms with her husband. Don't imply that she's doing something wrong. If that's what you're implying, you had better elaborate and explain yourself.

If what I said applies to you, I am sorry I offended you.  If it doesn't, then I am not sorry.

Whatever you decide, it takes wisdom and guts to ask for help.  We all know too many people who know everything.

[lordtiberius]

I was not referring to custody--but the ability to get consent to leave Ukraine.
This is difficult even when the father has given no support at any time and played no part in the childs life.
You are getting some quite different issues confused here.

Really?  How?

[calmissile]

I was not referring to custody--but the ability to get consent to leave Ukraine.
This is difficult even when the father has given no support at any time and played no part in the childs life.
You are getting some quite different issues confused here.

Jay, you are correct and it was overlooked by Bo.
It will be a few weeks before I can post a full report on the custody issue, however to address one item that seems to be misunderstood......

In a contested custody case, one parent can be granted full physical and legal custody.  The court order states that the mother (in this case) has the power to decide where the child will live.  Absent any specific visitation orders, the mother can also decide if there is any visitation for the father at all.

What is misunderstood, is that the court order granting 'full custody' does not allow the custodial parent to remove the child from Ukraine, even though it specifically states the custodial parent can decide where the child resides.  In a constested custody matter, the non-custodial parent can still prevent the child from leaving the country.  For all practical purposes, the only way to overcome this obstacle is to sue in court to remove the others parental rights.  This is a nightmare and very expensive, not to mention it takes a long time.

It is at least partially enforced by the child needing an International Passport to leave Ukraine.  In order for a parent with sole custody to get an international passport for the child, she will have to provide a letter from the other parent (granting permission), or an order from the court allowing the child to exit.

There is a lot more to this than what I offered here, but at an appropriate time I will make a lengthy post about the whole process.

[Photo Guy]

We eagerly await. My fiancee has been actively pursuing the International Passport angle for her sons. I need to learn all about that. She has gone to Poland to visit relatives with at least one of her sons in the last 6 months, to get away from the war.

[calmissile]

We eagerly await. My fiancee has been actively pursuing the International Passport angle for her sons. I need to learn all about that. She has gone to Poland to visit relatives with at least one of her sons in the last 6 months, to get away from the war.

Good luck to all of you.

[Boethius]

What is misunderstood, is that the court order granting 'full custody' does not allow the custodial parent to remove the child from Ukraine, even though it specifically states the custodial parent can decide where the child resides.  In a constested custody matter, the non-custodial parent can still prevent the child from leaving the country.  For all practical purposes, the only way to overcome this obstacle is to sue in court to remove the others parental rights.  This is a nightmare and very expensive, not to mention it takes a long time.

I didn't misunderstand that particular point.  I knew that was the case.  It is the same in many Canadian jurisdictions as well.  A custodial parent cannot just move to a different jurisdiction without a court order.  The best interests of the child are what govern.

[calmissile]

I didn't misunderstand that particular point.  I knew that was the case.  It is the same in many Canadian jurisdictions as well.  A custodial parent cannot just move to a different jurisdiction without a court order.  The best interests of the child are what govern.

Agree.

There is also a joke something like........ Even if the father is a drunk, has never paid child support, and never been active in the childs life, it is rare for a court to remove his parental rights.

That is why I think it is important to negotiate in good faith in the beginning (for all concerned).

[fathertime]

Doll, thank you. No need to adopt them.
Our history:
2006
  She arrived here in the USA on a K1 visa.
  Three months later she returned to Ukraine. No marriage.
  Her father went on a hunger strike demanding her return.
  I was disappointed. I met her again in Kiev later that year.
  She was ill and just had surgery then. Her parents divorced.
2007-2011
  We grew apart. I dated Americans. She got married and had
  two sons. Her father died. We stayed in touch.
2012
  She started communicating more, sent me Christmas photos of her family.
  We began doing a lot of emails and phone calls. She told me her marriage
  was bad. Her husband was an 'alcoholic'.
2013 to present
  We talk at least an hour a week, using skype and our translator.
  The same interpreter we used when we initially met in Kiev years ago.
We're in love. We need to reunite.

  I met with an immigration lawyer and now think the best course for us would be to do another K1 and K2's for her sons. She is about to get a 'friendly' divorce. Getting a statement from her husband, giving his permission for his sons to leave Ukraine should be doable. She would like her mom to attend our wedding here. Is this possible? What kind of visa?
  So this timeline is not exactly typical. It will be two K1's for the same woman...

very weird timeline....it seems to me that some of these entries should be red flags if that is all there is to it...


it is a big issue  moving children away from their father....it goes beyond whether it can legally be done...you have to rely on the lady's word...if it were me, I'd like to hear right from the horses mouth and discuss what your role will be....judging from the timeline (you presented), it doesn't appear you have visited for more than 7 years.  If that is correct, how the hell is this going to be deemed a 'relationship'...maybe you omitted a visitation, but if not maybe you should.


Fathertime!   

[Photo Guy]

Thanks for your input fathertime. Yes, that post represents about 4% of the entire story. 

[fathertime]

Thanks for your input fathertime. Yes, that post represents about 4% of the entire story. 

That is good photo guy, if the other 96% includes you meeting these children that would be an important element for both immigration and seeing if you actually want to be raising them.  The task you are taking on will be very large (mentally, physically, and financially), and you don't appear to be a spring chicken. 


Good luck,


Fathertime!   

[lordtiberius]

Agree.

There is also a joke something like........ Even if the father is a drunk, has never paid child support, and never been active in the childs life, it is rare for a court to remove his parental rights.

That is why I think it is important to negotiate in good faith in the beginning (for all concerned).

OK bud

[Turboguy]

Wow, I missed this thread until today.  Actually my wife saw it and she was thrilled to hear that after your long struggle things are finally working out for you PhotoGuy. 


I know some of your long struggle and how much you have wanted to build a life together and I am really happy that things are progressing.  You have had some good advice in this thread already.


I will agree that the K-1 & K-2 are the way to go.  The processing time is about the same for that and a CR-1 but it would take time for you to go there and marry so you will get her here faster on the K-1.  You have already spent time together so there should be few surprises on that part. 


I would also agree that the most worrisome step is getting the fathers approval.  I would suggest getting that out of the way first.  Some men would not want to be away from their kids.  Some want the best for their kids even if it means a sacrifice for them.  Some just don't care and are happy to be rid of an obligation.  If he is OK with it get the paperwork done before he changes his mind.  Sometimes some fathers get the idea that some compensation for their loss is required and it is better to get his John Hancock on the dotted line before he thinks about this.


I had lost faith in the saying that "Love conquers all" but hearing the good news has started me to be a believer again.

[calmissile]

I had lost faith in the saying that "Love conquers all" but hearing the good news has started me to be a believer again.

I think we just proved it.   

After nearly 2 years of court hearings in Ukraine, wifey just notified me we are victorious.
We faced.......
Contested divorce
Contested child support
Contested custody

If the embassy will grant Tourist Visa to daughter (like my wife's), they should be in the US shortly.
It was a long arduous fight, but well worth it.

Had it not been for my wife's determination and hard work, we would never have made it through the process.

[JayH]

Congratulations Doug--all the best to you and your family.

[lordtiberius]

The Father has rights and they need to be respected.

[Gator]

I had lost faith in the saying that "Love conquers all" but hearing the good news has started me to be a believer again.

The saying "All things come to he who waits" also comes to  mind.

Congratulations Photo Guy.  Your fiancée should take the lead on negotiating with her children's father.  I recall that Vaughn eventually spoke to the father and the father consented upon feeling reassured that his daughter would be taken care of. 

[Ade]

So, I'm probably one of the few that thinks this is a train wreck in the making then.


Let's see, after a hiatus in the "relationship" of 8 years or so, you talk for "at least an hour a week". In that 8 years, she got married to an apparent alcoholic and had 2 kids and was, I assume, being emotionally unfaithful to this dude for part of the time with you. You haven't actually met the kids face to face nor have you actually met her in the flesh since 2006.


And you are planning a marriage to this person? You understand that it is a huge thing to be responsible for children? That  their emotional and psychological well being is very dependent on the environment they are raised in? And you haven't even touched their mother in 8 years let alone lived with her.


That's my cheerful and optimistic take on this.


My pessimistic take is that she and her husband are taking you for a ride - when she gets settled you will be kicked into touch or perhaps she will suffer a dose of "domestic violence", and then wifey will reunite will the "ex-husband" in the good ol' U.S. of A.


Are you mad?

[Turboguy]

So, I'm probably one of the few that thinks this is a train wreck in the making then.

So there is someone who is not a believer in "Love conquers all"


Personally I think when women are young the are attracted to "bad boys" and think in terms of a knight riding in on a white horse and carrying them off to the life of a princess living in a castle and a life of eternal bliss. 


Once they get a dose or reality many start to realize that a good man who loves them and wants them to be happy is worth his weight in gold and a far better choice than someone who appeals to their wilder side.  PG fell head over heals in love long ago and never gave up on his dream.  She could not do better and I think a hard dose of the realities of life have shown her that.  I think they will be fine. 

[Gator]

PG fell head over heals in love long ago and never gave up on his dream. 

I don't know Photo Guy's story.  It was chronicled before I joined RWD.  Yet, there are factors important to any RW-AM marriage, and the most important are feelings. 

What did she feel 8 years ago?   Did she not marry PG then because she had concerns about moving to America?   Or did she simply not feel love/attraction for PG?

If the latter, the question remains of what does she feel today.  There could be trouble if her feelings are nothing more than:
   
     -   1) I am desperate because I married a bad man, do not have enough income to raise two children,  no FSUM is interested in marrying me, etc.

     -   2)  Photo Guy is a decent man and my only option.

OTOH, if she enters the relationship in good faith and is willing to do her part, then maybe love will grow.   Big MAYBE.   I recall from years ago a survey that revealed most RW married AM not feeling love.  Many such marriages failed, yet many have succeeded. 

No one can say for certain that there will be a train wreck.  However, PG needs to recognize the risk involved and be prepared if the worst outcome happens.

This marriage is far from a done deal.  PG needs to get on an airplane and spend much time with his fiancée in the year before she arrives.  How does he interact with the kids?  What passion does she have for PG?

[Gator]

Let's see, after a hiatus in the "relationship" of 8 years or so, you talk for "at least an hour a week". In that 8 years, she got married to an apparent alcoholic and had 2 kids and was, I assume, being emotionally unfaithful to this dude for part of the time with you. You haven't actually met the kids face to face nor have you actually met her in the flesh since 2006.

Excellent points. 

You understand that it is a huge thing to be responsible for children? That  their emotional and psychological well being is very dependent on the environment they are raised in?

Very true, yet PG seems like a man who would enjoy children.  If not, the train wreck you predict is likely.

That's my cheerful and optimistic take on this.

Given your normal response a couple of years ago, I say fatherhood has mellowed you.

Are you mad?

Anyone who undertakes this is touched, some more than others.

[Turboguy]

PhotoGuy could answer this better than I could but some of the reasons she chose to go back was that her parents were ill and she felt they needed her.  They have died since then so that is no longer an issue.