Agency Code of Ethics (ACoE) 0.1 Released -> Comments Here

[Admin]

As many of you will notice, there is a NEW menu item entitled Agency Ethics.

This represents the culmination of many weeks of effort and coordination on the part of many members of RWD and other organizations.

We invite your feedback.

- Dan

[Bruce]

Who were the individuals / agency owners who helped draft the agency code of ethics?  That may tell us a lot right there  .

[Admin]

Who were the individuals / agency owners who helped draft the agency code of ethics?  That may tell us a lot right there  .

No agency owners participated in the drafting or developing of the ACoE. Several provided feedback.

In any case, the ACoE should stand on its own merits. All comments appreciated.

- Dan

[Admin]

Dear Members,

Agency vs. Agency interaction on RWD is increasing.   Without a doubt, this subject creates some of the liveliest, emotionally charged and hotly debated topics this board has experienced.  Unfortunately, with so much effort expended, little, if anything tangible results. The lack of general consensus is apparent.  If one takes the time to review these heavily debated threads it will not be difficult to identify that the underlying difficulty is an inability to objectively measure the qualifications or performance of Agencies in general and much less when drawing comparisons. We endlessly debate who is bigger, better, brighter or more ethical but without an appropriate yardstick  this quest will remain futile.

With this in mind, RWD over the last months developed an Agency Code of Ethics (ACOE) which we hope will be accepted as the standard yardstick to measure acceptability of business practices in a manner that is fair, objective and transparent.  The ACOE was developed using  ideas from several discussions regarding standards in the RWD Project section and additional contributions and insight from several board members.

The goal of this project is to award Agencies and other foreign-relationship based businesses, certifications based on verified qualifications, business ethics and customer service.

The Agency Code of Ethics works and Certification process:

The Agency Code of Ethics is a document that regulates the agreement between RWD and interested business entities wishing to acquire certification.  The ACOE document is attached to this post.  It defines all prerequisites needed for certification.  Reading this document you will find that the standards set forth are indeed quite high and comprehensive.  In fact very few, if any will be able to comply with all provisions at the outset.  This is intended.  Surely one of the first questions that will be asked is why we would propose a certification process that is at first sight unattainable?  The answer is quite simple; we do not want to fall into the trap presented by a simple and easy process that does little more than act as promotional endorsement.  Instead we want to challenge the industry to raise ethical standards to a level that is accepted as reasonable by the general public.  This industry has been cast in bad light and we want that to change.

Realizing that this will involve a process of maturation and change for interested businesses we have developed a three-stage certification process which we have summarized below.  This will allow business entities to enter the certification process and strive for higher levels of performance and ethics.

Stage 1 Accountability – Perusing websites related to foreign relationships you will likely find quite a few that do not list any contact information at all except for an email address.  Although this may be a simple oversight, we feel anyone dealing with any commercial enterprise should know exactly who they are dealing with, full contact information, terms and conditions of services provided and affiliations with other related enterprises.  Furthermore it will be required to submit copies of any licenses and/or permits that may be required to operate at their business locations.  All information provided will be checked for accuracy and reviewed from time to time.  In addition a certified business will be required to guarantee response to subscribed customer queries within two business days.  A seal of Tier 1 certification will be provided for a certified business to display on their website or other web based advertising and will require the business to display the seal and backlink on their home page to a webpage describing details of the certification and provisions for reporting abuse.  In order to preclude any perception of unfair motivation, gain or favoritism on the part of RWD, the non refundable application fee for Tier 1 certification will be one US Dollar.

Stage 2 Ethics – Having attained Stage 1 certification for a period of 90 days without significant abuse reports or violations, the business can apply for Stage 2 certification.  As described in the ACOE, business processes and operational aspects will be reviewed intensively during on site visits to ensure conformance with pertinent legal and ethical standards.  Visits will include interviews and contacts with a statistically relevant portion of both men and women clients, by random sample, to assure that in-house procedures are followed and effective. In addition  the business will be required to advise all current and future clients (both male and female) of their adherence to ACOE and encourage use of provisions available to rate the services being provided.

Stage 3 Customer service/satisfaction – Achieving this level of certification is entirely driven by customer satisfaction and sustained performance factors.  Businesses wishing this level of certification may apply 180 days after being granted Stage 2 certification.  Customer satisfaction reports generated from Stage 2 customer responses and unscheduled follow-up visits will be used to determine the award and maintenance of this highest level of certification.

Summary:

Change is never easy, without challenge or swift, but the greatest error of all is not to try.  We are confident that the steps outlined above can work to match the desires of customers and clients with businesses that are willing to take bold steps forward to promote business ethics and integrity to the forefront.

The challenges we pose are neither unreasonable nor unsurmountable for businesses big or small.  It is also not a race.  Adequate time is allowed for all applicants to maintain a steady and equal pace towards each certification level.  Considering the straightforward certification process that has been constructed, it is difficult to imagine any business truly interested in promoting ethics and integrity for this industry would willingly choose to be left behind.

The ultimate goal is not to regulate, but instead provide the framework necessary for customers, clients and even businesses to make informed, comparative choices, rather than reliance on good fortune and hearsay alone.

[William3rd]

I like this document. I hope that it gets wide play and that the COE becomes the industry standard.

Perhaps there needs to be some definitions included as to what constitutes compliance. Ex- last time  checked, marriage agencies in the PI were illegal;hence the presence of penpal clubs

[William3rd]

Would this appropriate license in the country be a business license, a registration of a marraige agency, or just a tour agency license?

[Bruce]

Now what is needed is a certification process.  Agencies who claim to meet the ethics requirements should have a site visit demonstrating proof of said ethics. 

"4-A (Profile Acceptance)
IR recognizes the right of Agencies to accept/reject individual requests for membership based on Agency Terms and Conditions of Service. However, generalized restrictions and discriminations based on physical and/or geographical criteria shall be prominently displayed on the first page of the Agency Site(s). "  I see no need for 4 - A.  Let the agency decide which girl or guy they choose based on whatever criterion they like.

"level of foreign languages spoken" is very subjective and difficult to verify without meeting.

"6-A (Certification Request)
Agencies may submit to IR a request for Certification (hereinafter ACoE Certification) of the conformance of their business conduct to ACoE standards, accompanied by with the remittance of the applicable, non-refundable examination fee."

Wow, the certification section is in, good thinking.  No mention of site visitors though - where's Turbo?

What do you do with the super middle man "agencies" that rely on real agencies to do all the work and then just bring men to get-togethers / help men arrange meetings with women from real bricks and motor agencies ie. recruiting, setting up profiles etc.?

Who gets the dollars for certifying these agencies and how is it done???  Ah, Dan, how did I know.  Well, I believe you are highly ethical Dan, but agencies are difficult to certify.  Make your site the Gold Standard.  Over time you will improve the agency business, if clients only read this board!!!

[BC]

"4-A (Profile Acceptance)
IR recognizes the right of Agencies to accept/reject individual requests for membership based on Agency Terms and Conditions of Service. However, generalized restrictions and discriminations based on physical and/or geographical criteria shall be prominently displayed on the first page of the Agency Site(s). "  I see no need for 4 - A.  Let the agency decide which girl or guy they choose based on whatever criterion they like.

Interesting document..

If I understand this part correctly, it seems like a non-discrimination clause..  If I were a woman with say less than optimum physical characteristics like age or beauty or maybe even disabled should the agency have the right to refuse posting of my listing on their website on that basis alone?? 

In such a case, I guess the agency would have to state up front on their website that they only accept model quality women under 35 with no disabilities.. 

Might be interesting to know if such discrimination is practiced.

[Bruce]

BC, the discrimination is practiced.  Go to any agency and open the books.  The prettiest photos (not necessarily girls) usually are first.  An agency could meet the clause fairly easily anyway ie. bury the ugly, old, handicapped etc. girls at the bottom of the books and at the bottom of their webpages. 

[Bruno]

"4-A (Profile Acceptance)
IR recognizes the right of Agencies to accept/reject individual requests for membership based on Agency Terms and Conditions of Service. However, generalized restrictions and discriminations based on physical and/or geographical criteria shall be prominently displayed on the first page of the Agency Site(s). "  I see no need for 4 - A.  Let the agency decide which girl or guy they choose based on whatever criterion they like.

Maybe it is needed... specialy now that procedure are different from US customer or other western customer... some agency have already split service and site... by example, if a site don't follow the IMBRA rule and don't make background check, they need to inform that the site is not for American customer on the home page... not making so is a perfect way for a delayed crash at the interview...

If i was starting my site again, so disclaimer will exist on my site since i have no the time for check every American customer ( too much expensive in time )...

[Bruno]

5-A (Responsibility)
All Agencies Services, even if supplied by third parties, shall be under the full responsibility and accountability of the offering Agencies.

Hmmm, responsabilities... what about other service presented via link... i think, by example, the RWD Storefront and RWD Travel section... Is it RWD responsible in case of problem with third parties... I don't think, so will not be agency... IF a agency propose several service of externe translator, they are not really responsible... A agency is only responsible if they don't remove these link/service to third party when several customer have complain about them...

[SANDRO43]

An agency could meet the clause fairly easily anyway ie. bury the ugly, old, handicapped etc. girls at the bottom of the books and at the bottom of their webpages. 

Bruce, an agency cannot really bury/hide the least attractive items in their portfolio, IF they had accepted them.

On the contrary, they usually PROMOTE them through special season-sale sections (check out their FREE ADDRESS lists) .

[Bruno]

Stage 2 Ethics – Having attained Stage 1 certification for a period of 90 days without significant abuse reports or violations, the business can apply for Stage 2 certification.  As described in the ACOE, business processes and operational aspects will be reviewed intensively during on site visits to ensure conformance with pertinent legal and ethical standards.  Visits will include interviews and contacts with a statistically relevant portion of both men and women clients, by random sample, to assure that in-house procedures are followed and effective. In addition  the business will be required to advise all current and future clients (both male and female) of their adherence to ACOE and encourage use of provisions available to rate the services being provided.

Seem that the bold section is a violation of the privacy since agency need to give contact information about clients ( men-women ) for interviews... not really compatible with :

2-G (Confidentiality of Agency Client Information)
Agencies shall clearly and explicitly inform their staff of the confidential and private nature of Agency Client information, and implement appropriate procedures and controls to ensure that said confidentiality and privacy are respected at all times.

[Fiorella]

I didn't see anywhere the definiton WHO exactly is the customer of the agency. As it works now, customers are foreign men who pay to agencies for women info. And who are women then?

[BC]

Fiorella,

From what I can see clients are clients... maybe that's good?

[Kvinna]

2-B (Business Regulations)
All clients are equal. No one can be refused to be served the basis of distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, age, religion, political or other opinion, national or  reputation of the country, territory or city to which a client belongs.

Conform with the rules and regulations governing their type of business activity in their country of registration. Should Agency Clients reside in countries other than an Agency's registered place of business, the corresponding rules and regulations of such other countries shall also be complied with.

2-G (Confidentiality of Agency Client Information)
Agencies shall clearly and explicitly inform their staff of the confidential and private nature of Agency Client information, and implement appropriate procedures and controls to ensure that said confidentiality and privacy are respected at all times.
No one personal information about client cannot appear in open source of internet
All rights on content provided to agency by client belong to client, Agency cannot use it beyond agency and its site, agency have no right to sell content to third part.
Agency take responsibility for safety of content provided by clients, so must garantee that content will be not stolen and not appear on any other site, especially for adult.
Agency should garantee safety of clients against abouse, sexual harassment and stalking (here necessary to dermine what is abuse, harassment and stalking)

No about Scammer
I offer the criminal term scammer to exchange into unconscientious client, because according to articles of Human Rights declaration Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he
has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence. As no one went through this trial he cannot be labeled as a criminal/
I'll continue to think it is to hard to write all this in english

[Durk]

        Stage one and stage two should have a six month min. time
in business for each tier. You could sign up a bunch of clients and
take their money and disappear.

[Admin]

I didn't see anywhere the definiton WHO exactly is the customer of the agency. As it works now, customers are foreign men who pay to agencies for women info. And who are women then?

Fiorella,

Here is an excerpt:

The Agency Code of Ethics (hereinafter ACoE) represents the views of International Relations (owners of RussianWomenDiscussion.com, Planet-Love.com, and GoodWife.com, hereinafter IR), on the standards that should govern the conduct of private organisations (hereinafter Agency/Agencies) having male and female clients (hereinafter Agency Clients) who seek serious emotional relationships, and offering to them mutual information, assistance and services (hereinafter Agency Services) to facilitate their encounters and establishing such relationships, regardless of whether such Agency Services are rendered for free or for a fee.

Please note the text in RED. The language of the ACoE explicitly identifies BOTH men and women as clients of the agency, equally.

Further, the text in GREEN explicitly states that the agency shall treat the men and/or women equally even if the woman (or the man) does not pay a fee.

- Dan

[Admin]

        Stage one and stage two should have a six month min. time
in business for each tier. You could sign up a bunch of clients and
take their money and disappear.

As stated in one of the early posts, we are in no hurry to rush into things. If any agency wishes to subscribe and are concerned about us being 'flaky' - they are free to check out the business registration here in Colorado - the length of time RWD and GoodWife and Planet-Love have been in operation (since 1997, BTW) - and the number of posts I have made over the years on numerous sites. We are not going anywhere, except maybe to do an inspection if an agency wishes it - but if there is any concern - go slow. No problems here. In fact, there is some advantage to us to proceed deliberately and with caution as we have, admittedly, not considered all the many issues which will undoubtedly confront us in this pursuit. Still, we felt compelled to make this important first step, and to venture down this path to making a positive difference in this business.

- Dan

[BillyB]

I've seen agencies with seals of "approval", a guarantee of service, and links to anti-scam sites but that does not stop them from having unethical business practices.

Some anti-scam sites are owned by the agency themselves. Who knows who sponsors that seal of approval on certain sites? Many big agencies protect themselves from lawsuits in America claiming they have a great anti-scam program etc... but they encourage feeder agencies to do the dirty deeds. Remember what Marc Dayton said in the now erased lawsuit thread against AFA? He said he gave profiles to AnastasiaWeb and it made him money. When he wanted to add more profiles to AWeb, they refused because there was not a lot of letter writing on his girls behalf. Marc did not meet Awebs standards but what AWeb was encouraging is that feeder agencies pump out letters "any way they can" if they want to do business with AWeb. Now Marc didn't come out and say that's what they told him but one doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to understand what they require from feeder agencies. No increase in letter writing, no money.

The big bad agencies have survived quite well with the fact many anti-scam sites are in existence and the people in forums have bad mouth them. They have survived before "The Agency Code of Ethics" existed and they could easily survive with it in existence.... unless Dan has a way of making it the well known in the industry and accepted to the point it can't be ignored.

Most guys don't read seals of approval, guarantees, or anti-scam sites. I think the what needs to happen is that there should be a warning on the front page of every agency who wants to participate in this program to use additional sources to verify the agency they are to do business with. Such as Warning!!! Please ask questions at RWD for additional information pertaining to the agencies you are about to do business with. Let's see if agencies have the guts to post something like that on their front page?

Dan, I know you and others have put a lot of effort into the ACoE but without widespread acceptance of the document and the possibility that it won't be read by many customers if it's not accessible on agencies front pages and in bold print, the code may not hold value but for a few. I do admire your efforts to improve an industry that needs improving. My two cents.

[Admin]

I've seen agencies with seals of "approval", a guarantee of service, and links to anti-scam sites but that does not stop them from having unethical business practices.

Some anti-scam sites are owned by the agency themselves. Who knows who sponsors that seal of approval on certain sites? Many big agencies protect themselves from lawsuits in America claiming they have a great anti-scam program etc... but they encourage feeder agencies to do the dirty deeds. Remember what Marc Dayton said in the now erased lawsuit thread against AFA? He said he gave profiles to AnastasiaWeb and it made him money. When he wanted to add more profiles to AWeb, they refused because there was not a lot of letter writing on his girls behalf. Marc did not meet Awebs standards but what AWeb was encouraging is that feeder agencies pump out letters "any way they can" if they want to do business with AWeb. Now Marc didn't come out and say that's what they told him but one doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to understand what they require from feeder agencies. No increase in letter writing, no money.

The big bad agencies have survived quite well with the fact many anti-scam sites are in existence and the people in forums have bad mouth them. They have survived before "The Agency Code of Ethics" existed and they could easily survive with it in existence.... unless Dan has a way of making it the well known in the industry and accepted to the point it can't be ignored.

Most guys don't read seals of approval, guarantees, or anti-scam sites. I think the what needs to happen is that there should be a warning on the front page of every agency who wants to participate in this program to use additional sources to verify the agency they are to do business with. Such as Warning!!! Please ask questions at RWD for additional information pertaining to the agencies you are about to do business with. Let's see if agencies have the guts to post something like that on their front page?

Dan, I know you and others have put a lot of effort into the ACoE but without widespread acceptance of the document and the possibility that it won't be read by many customers if it's not accessible on agencies front pages and in bold print, the code may not hold value but for a few. I do admire your efforts to improve an industry that needs improving. My two cents.

Billy,

Where I *think* the ACoE stands apart from all others is:

* This is an independent initiative and we are not beholden to ANY single interest.
* This is a collaborative product and represents a collection of input from numerous sources, paramount being the members here at RWD and their many comments over the months/years. In fact, some of my seemingly inane questions in several past topics may now be more apparent as to my motives 
* Timing for this initiative is on the heels of some VERY contentious topics here at RWD, and is not too long after the intervention and passage of IMBRA legislation. There is obviously some turmoil in these businesses, and now *may* be an opportune time to congeal direction of the industry towards a positive and worthwhile objective.

I have a few other reasons for believing this is the time to release this. Maybe with the approval of some others who participated in the ACoE, I can make that announcement soon - but in any case, the upcoming few days should tell us something about the viability of the ACoE.

- Dan

[jb]

This is all very pretty, but I'm reminded of the phrase; "as difficult as herding cats".  I just don't see how you are going to get all those folks headed in the same direction.

[Durk]

        Dan I meant the agency or agencies you would be giving
approval to. If I would have been concerned about RWD I would
not be here period! You have done good for all of us. Thanks!

[viking]

Business is business and money is money. Agencies are in business to make money.
Just a lonely thought on my part, but if there was a web site, separate and apart from RWD, that would come to the top of any search engine hit on dating sites, russian dating site, russian women, MOB, etc....that said something like "guys, these sites have met with the RWD good housekeeping seal of approvel, use THEM" and these approvals actually drove business to these better sites, don't you think these agencies would make more money? And hence want to participate?

Wouldn't it be nice if an agency was begging to become part of the program because it added another X% revenue to their bottom line? Wouldn't it be nice if scammers were relegated to the bottom feeders and others knew about this?

I don't think that these codes will stop the fishing in the yahoo personal oceans, and other similiar sites, but I am all for this big step in the right direction.

[Admin]

Business is business and money is money. Agencies are in business to make money.
Just a lonely thought on my part, but if there was a web site, separate and apart from RWD, that would come to the top of any search engine hit on dating sites, russian dating site, russian women, MOB, etc....that said something like "guys, these sites have met with the RWD good housekeeping seal of approvel, use THEM" and these approvals actually drove business to these better sites, don't you think these agencies would make more money? And hence want to participate?

Wouldn't it be nice if an agency was begging to become part of the program because it added another X% revenue to their bottom line? Wouldn't it be nice if scammers were relegated to the bottom feeders and others knew about this?

I don't think that these codes will stop the fishing in the yahoo personal oceans, and other similiar sites, but I am all for this big step in the right direction.

Careful - you may be on to something   

- Dan