More Bad News for Russia

[JayH]

In a further humiliation to midget putin, the country which he considers not a real country being Ukraine, wins this year's Eurovision Song Contest.

Ooops Russia even misses out on 2nd place, won by a country not even in Europe.

President huilo's country did managed to scrap in third, befitting of their third world status.

http://us.yahoo.com/music/26-countries-compete-final-eurovision-song-contest-111301645.html

Yeah-- consigned to the salt mines !Maybe they should have asked the doping section of the Kremlin how they could cheat!

I did hear that  the winners  singing(Ukrainian btw) was distorted on Russian TV to make it sound bad.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=20843.msg430864;topicseen#msg430864

[mendeleyev]

I see the narrow minded troll has learned to write. Perhaps you will learn to read as well (understand maybe not so well), much of what is in print and on various media is little more than propaganda by ALL sides. The U.S. and Russia play the same game as well as every other country, group or political movement, corporations disseminate propaganda.

It is up to the individual to sift through the information and decide for themselves what the truth is or what they want it to be. Right/Wrong, Good/Bad, Evil/Righteous or any other label someone wants to place on someone or something are just that labels based on personal experience, prejudices and preconceived ideas based on fact or belief.   

No, the narrow minded troll (you) has NOT learned to write. Your uneducated use of English makes me wonder how much Dmitry pays you to post such garbage. Perhaps I'll rib him about it next week. He is really scraping the bottom of the cess pool these days.

[cc3]

Mendy, I will not feed the troll; instead, I will just call him out, tersely, when he insults the members here with his ludicrous comments and links.

 

[msmobyone]

I did hear that  the winners  singing(Ukrainian btw) was distorted on Russian TV to make it sound bad.

OMG..again?

Believe me....that's nonsense...
I watched it on Russian Tv AND checked the 'veracity' of such a claim on the BBC.

And some folks think Russians have the upper hand in silliness?!

[sleepycat]

"I did hear that  the winners  singing(Ukrainian btw) was distorted on Russian TV to make it sound bad."

Hey Moby, these are JayH's words in post#4675 not mine.
Please show due care before assigning blame.

[msmobyone]

"I did hear that  the winners  singing(Ukrainian btw) was distorted on Russian TV to make it sound bad."

Hey Moby, these are JayH's words in post#4675 not mine.
Please show due care before assigning blame.

I humbly apologise - no excuses - other than I was still laughing at the 'third world' comment and thinking of you ..

[TigerPaws]

Demanding that Russia give back Crimea is  , not going to happen any more than Israel will give back Jerusalem or the U.S. would give back the lands taken by force of arms from the Native people.

It is time to move on.


 

[mendeleyev]

TP, I am one who thinks that it will be a long time before Crimea is returned, if ever.

However, I have a brain and thus understand that when Ukraine gave up nukes, part of the deal was that Russia would respect Ukraine's existing borders.

Having a brain, I also understand that a referendum is rigged when the only two questions on the ballot were options to leave Ukraine and join Russia as part of the Federation, or as a protectorate.

Having a brain means that I understand that there was no ballot option for remaining in Ukraine.

With a functioning brain, I understand that turning away voters who held Ukrainian passports is a sure way to ensure that Ukrainians living in Crimea could not vote.

Ah, that same brain allows me to remember the Crimean Duma being ousted overnight (as a majority were Russians it still begs the question as to why) and announcing a new Duma the next morning is a COUP. Especially since the new leader was a Russian citizen with no dual (Ukrainian) citizenship--something outlawed in both the Crimean and Ukrainian constitutions.

Using my brain, I understand that when Yanukonvikt's Party of Regions, still holding a majority in Kyiv, voted to impeach him, that was NOT a coup, regardless of how much drivel and vomit the folk in Moscow try to feed those of you in the troll factories.

My brain also kicks into gear when remenbering a press conference at which a certain president insisted that those unmarked troops dropped from hundreds of helo sorties coming from the Russian border were not really Russian soldiers, but instead were average Crimeans who had gone shopping down at the corner Army Surplus store. Oh, but a year later he reversed the story, and in order to bolster his poll numbers, bragged on Russian television how the annexation of Crimea with his unmarked forces had been accomplished.

You are a sick, pathetic, useless troll.

[TigerPaws]

TP, I am one who thinks that it will be a long time before Crimea is returned, if ever.

However, I have a brain and thus understand that when Ukraine gave up nukes, part of the deal was that Russia would respect Ukraine's existing borders.

Having a brain, I also understand that a referendum is rigged when the only two questions on the ballot were options to leave Ukraine and join Russia as part of the Federation, or as a protectorate.

Having a brain means that I understand that there was no ballot option for remaining in Ukraine.

With a functioning brain, I understand that turning away voters who held Ukrainian passports is a sure way to ensure that Ukrainians living in Crimea could not vote.

Ah, that same brain allows me to remember the Crimean Duma being ousted overnight (as a majority were Russians it still begs the question as to why) and announcing a new Duma the next morning is a COUP. Especially since the new leader was a Russian citizen with no dual (Ukrainian) citizenship--something outlawed in both the Crimean and Ukrainian constitutions.

Using my brain, I understand that when Yanukonvikt's Party of Regions, still holding a majority in Kyiv, voted to impeach him, that was NOT a coup, regardless of how much drivel and vomit the folk in Moscow try to feed those of you in the troll factories.

My brain also kicks into gear when remenbering a press conference at which a certain president insisted that those unmarked troops dropped from hundreds of helo sorties coming from the Russian border were not really Russian soldiers, but instead were average Crimeans who had gone shopping down at the corner Army Surplus store. Oh, but a year later he reversed the story, and in order to bolster his poll numbers, bragged on Russian television how the annexation of Crimea with his unmarked forces had been accomplished.

You are a sick, pathetic, useless troll.

Perhaps you should use that brain to realize the you can complain all you want, you can rant all you want. It will not change anything. It is time to move on.

Russia has Crimea and is not in any foreseeable future going to give it back anymore than Israel will give back Jerusalem or the U.S. would give back the lands taken by force of arms from the Native people.

You may not like those facts but that is the reality most of us live in. Perhaps you live in another reality?

[fathertime]

You are a sick, pathetic, useless troll.

Whoa there big guy! 


 TP is stating his opinion, and there are aspects of it that are NOT unreasonable.  Is there a specific reason that you are labeling him a 'sick pathetic useless troll? I seriously doubt that he is being paid by the Kremlin to post, but it wold seem he is making some analogies that do make sense, and are worth addressing.    I'd say his arguments can be addressed without the name calling.  There are a few posters that are on the other extreme, and I don't see you reprimanding/labeling them....I'm sensing some extreme bias. 


Fathertime!

[msmobyone]

Perhaps you should use that brain to realize the you can complain all you want, you can rant all you want. It will not change anything. It is time to move on.

This isn't going to happen TP. This is the 21C. Putin can try to justify his stunts in Ukraine, to divert from the economic crisis - but a reckoning there will be.  You sometimes speak of war..it's already happening .. it just hasn't involved any western nations.

Perhaps you live in another reality?

Nope, we live in Russia... we see a nation with super weapons, super rich and teachers having their salaries cut and civil servants losing their jobs and food prices still rising way faster than pensions/ salaries.

What Putin fears most is people power.  He may need further distractions.

Please add me to your list of 'trolls' .. 

[msmobyone]

Whoa there big guy! 

Enter FT - 'the voice of reason'...

 TP is stating his opinion, and there are aspects of it that are NOT unreasonable.

My opinion is that TP and you like to play devil's advocate - hoping for a 'reaction'..

In the case of Crimea - he seems to believe militarly creating the circumstances for insurrection in neighbouring nations is something 'we' should allow - as trying to stop it might bring war ...

Then he is suggesting 'move on' while VVP plans his next move in trying to create his 'novorossiya' 

I have no idea IF TP has been in Russia / Ukraine, recently...His posts - like yours - would suggest not

[TigerPaws]

Enter FT - 'the voice of reason'...

My opinion is that TP and you like to play devil's advocate - hoping for a 'reaction'..

In the case of Crimea - he seems to believe military creating the circumstances for insurrection in neighbouring nations is something 'we' should allow - as trying to stop it might bring war ...

Then he is suggesting 'move on' while VVP plans his next move in trying to create his 'novorossiya' 

I have no idea IF TP has been in Russia / Ukraine, recently...His posts - like yours - would suggest not

Actually I was in Russia for 10 weeks last winter, while my wife and daughter were visiting family and friends. I went south on business to the Russian/Ukraine border and I am fully aware of the myriad of issues facing the most of the average working people.

Sanctions have spurred Russia to find new trading partners, there is a renewed drive to produce goods locally. This will in time (and it takes a lot of time) will reduce Russia's external needs, eventually making the Russian economy stronger. Russia currently selling a lot of grain globally, mostly because of the weak Ruble, but that is how economies work.

You may not like the way Russia is run today but unless you are willing to personally become involved then you have zero voice in how things might change for the better.

I understanding that sitting at a computer and complaining is easier than actually trying to change things but will that solve anything?

The results of change are never instantaneous, these things take time. As to if the Russian people will wait, only time will tell.  

[cc3]

You may not like those facts but that is the reality most of us live in. Perhaps you live in another reality?

"Another reality"? You are such a poseur, pretending to be an American and writing at an English level that is certainly less proficient than that of an average native-born speaker who is thirteen years old.

[mendeleyev]

Perhaps you should use that brain to realize the you can complain all you want, you can rant all you want. It will not change anything. It is time to move on.

Russia has Crimea and is not in any foreseeable future going to give it back anymore than Israel will give back Jerusalem or the U.S. would give back the lands taken by force of arms from the Native people.

You may not like those facts but that is the reality most of us live in. Perhaps you live in another reality?

Again, use your brain. And, read.


On one small point, you are singing to the choir because I said:

TP, I am one who thinks that it will be a long time before Crimea is returned, if ever.

You repeat your drivel about "moving on" because you have no defense against facts.

[krimster2]

cc3, he's NOT pretending to be an American, he is American,  but otherwise your description is fairly accurate!

[krimster2]

>Actually I was in Russia for 10 weeks last winter, while my wife and daughter were visiting family and friends.

Actually, according to your wife, you were in Texas during this time period, read for yourself here:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Viktoria-The-Russian-Chefina/1538908709661884

[cc3]

Krimster, I'm married to a Russian speaker who is very proficient in English, but, not being an English native speaker, she makes mistakes in expressing herself, most frequently, because of the native Russian speaker's inexperience with articles and with the various forms of the verb 'to be'. TP's mistakes in English language usage are very similar to hers. I looked back at some of his initial posts eleven years ago, and, for the few that I scanned, I did not see the same mistakes as he makes now. Maybe he has been in Russia too long, or mostly communicating in that language with his wife and offspring...but his grasp of the English language has markedly deteriorated over the years. (Sorry TP...I call 'em as I see 'em).

[krimster2]

cc3, while I agree with what you're saying, I know quite a bit about Michael, er I mean "TP", and he currently lives with his wife Viktoria (who was Russian), at his sister-in-law's house in Melbourne, FL.  Michael, is just someone's whose conservative social view points resonates closely with contemporary Russian xenophobia, and so as a result he's become a Russian supporter, Steven Seagal the actor, would be a public figure with a comparable view point

[TigerPaws]

  Fortuentally block/Ignore works well.

[jone]

Perhaps you should use that brain to realize the you can complain all you want, you can rant all you want. It will not change anything. It is time to move on.

Russia has Crimea and is not in any foreseeable future going to give it back anymore than Israel will give back Jerusalem or the U.S. would give back the lands taken by force of arms from the Native people.

You may not like those facts but that is the reality most of us live in. Perhaps you live in another reality?

Funny you used the Israel analogy.  Israel gave quite a bit of conquered territory back in order to acheive peace.   Russia seems to do just the opposite.  It continues to exacerbate the situation in Ukraine.   You keep claiming that sanctions are bad for Western powers and not bad for Russia, therefore having little to no impact except ruining everyone's (but Russia's) economy. 

My take is that without sanctions and unity against Russia for its actions in Ukraine, the situation would be much worse.  A bully continues bullying until someone stands up against the bully.    Russia is an international bully in all ways.  Western powers will continue to rachet up the pressure against Russia.  And with Russia doing barrel rolls over American ships and confronting Western leaning countries everywhere possible, my guess is that sanctions and continued pressure against the Russian economy will not abate any time soon.

I do believe that the sanctions and continued diplomatic pressure are having a significant impact on Russia.  Russia is using the pushback to further alienate its own society against the West.  A proposed law, which heard its first ruling in the Duma last week will give Russia the ability to restrict foreign travel to anyone it considers to be a troublemaker.    This law is clearly intended to head off any support for internal dissent in Russia.  Another mark of a dictator abrogating freedoms.

[fathertime]

Enter FT - 'the voice of reason'...

At your service! 

My opinion is that TP and you like to play devil's advocate - hoping for a 'reaction'..

The implication here is that people like TP and myself, don't actually hold the belief we are saying we do, and are merely stating our case for grins.   I know you are mistaken in my case, and probably his case too.   You must be so certain you are correct that you don't allow for a completely different line of reasoning.  Believe it or not, a sensible case can be made for why Russia has done what it did.  Big nations often use what they have to swallow the smaller ones in one form or another...I don't see it so much as clear cut good guys and bad guys in the same light that you and many others here might.


Fathertime!   

[Anotherkiwi]

Fortuentally block/Ignore works well.

"Fortuentally????"  New one on me!  However, cc3, have you ever thought that it might just be Mrs Tiger Paws posting on her husband's account?

[sleepycat]

It is time to move on. [/color]

Maybe it is also time for your beloved president huilo to move on in accepting his USSR had lost the cold war and there is absolutely nothing he can do to reassemble that pathetic commie empire... 

[msmobyone]

Actually I was in Russia for 10 weeks last winter, while my wife and daughter were visiting family and friends. I went south on business to the Russian/Ukraine border and I am fully aware of the myriad of issues facing the most of the average working people.

Not apparent from your postings..

Sanctions have spurred Russia to find new trading partners, there is a renewed drive to produce goods locally.

I think the word you are looking for is isolationism. Selling a lot of grain externally, but the price of bread internally goes up.

Let's be honest... you avoided my point about 'novorossiya' and responded as if we were purely talking economics.

You may not like the way Russia is run today but unless you are willing to personally become involved then you have zero voice in how things might change for the better.

What's to like about a policy of promoting polarisation in Ukraine followed by direction - tearing up treaties? I wanted Russia to take her place at the G8 - not to be regarded as a pariah state.

I understanding that sitting at a computer and complaining is easier than actually trying to change things but will that solve anything?

I'm a guest here and it is for the Russian people to figure out ...When it comes to customer service - I'm not afraid to try to change attitudes... 

The results of change are never instantaneous, these things take time. As to if the Russian people will wait, only time will tell.

Indeed, Putin has been effectively in control since the late 1990's - he has done very well for himself - and his mates.