My first trip to Ukraine - May-June 2018

[SteveInBoston]

Hello,

I recently joined this website and forum to research travelling to and dating someone from a FSU country.  Thank you to all who have posted, provided advice and shared your stories.

I want to contribute by sharing my story, which went markedly different from some recent posts here.

I joined DMnotify.com in February this year (I will skip the reason why and my experiences with US sites like Match).  BTW, I highly recommend the site to anyone who is looking for a partner from Russia/Ukraine/Belarus/...  I met several ladies there, including Tanya from Ukraine.  After a couple weeks of messaging we switched to Whatsapp and developed a connection.  We texted every day and I decided to visit her the last week of May (3 months of communication?)

She lives in eastern Ukraine, near the conflict zone but in the Ukraine controlled area.  We decided to meet in Kyiv and travel together to Odessa and Lviv.  Oh, and before someone asks, I am in my late 40's and she is 9 years younger. 

Also, I do not speak any Russian/Ukrainian, but I did some "Learn Russian While You Sleep" videos and the Pimsler 8 CD Conversational Russian set.  Noticed that the Pimsler lessons seems outdated - Dva piva, pajalusta.  Skol'ka Ya dolja.  Chitiri ruble....It would be fantastic to get 2 beers for only 6 cents.   Fortunately Tanya speaks English very well - reads/writes fluently, but is not as fluent when speaking and listening.

May 26 - Flight from Boston to Munich via Lufthansa.  Nice overnight flight, but I couldn't sleep - perhaps due to the anticipation of the meeting?  In Munich I was able to get on the airport wifi and texted her my status.  I had lunch at the airport and forgot about the water - if you ask for water without specifying a brand, they give the most expensive one they have.  So, a 25 cL bottle of mineral water for 3.5 Euros.  Could be worse?

May 27 - Flight from Munich to Kyiv, Lufthansa, arrive at 3:45 PM.  I manage to sleep a bit on the ~3 hr flight, which helps tremendously.  Only took about 15 minutes to clear passport control and customs, surprising both of us.  The border control and customs agents in Kyiv were so friendly and quick compared to US counterparts.  Two questions - here for business or vacation (vacation) and how long will I stay (about two weeks).  Went to "nothing to declare" line with my huge luggage (used all of my 23.2 kilo allowance - didn't know what styles of clothes I should bring so I brought a bit of everything, including 3 sportcoats/jackets).  The customs agent picked me out and had me send the luggage through the x-ray scanner - no problems.    I walk out to the terminal waiting area, scan the people lined up on the other side of the rail but I do not see Tanya.  I start to worry a bit -- did she bail?  Was there a problem with her ride to the airport?  I walk out to the center of the terminal, and as look around I turn to the left and there she is, rushing up to me!  As I said, the quick processing surprised both of us - she was at the airport cafe drinking coffee. 

Now I am going to spend a few minutes gushing about Tanya.  Feel free to skip to the next paragraph if you want.  Tanya is stunning.  Tall, blonde, beautiful, in a nice dress and perfect hair.  She spent the morning preparing for our meeting - she went to a hair salon, went to the hotel I booked to drop off her luggage, borrowed a friend's club card for discounts at the hotel and restaurant, purchased a SIM card for me, and planned our afternoon/evening to visit the UEFA Championship festival zone on Khreschatyk street and Maidan square.  She is funny, intelligent, graceful, playful, kind, and mature and goofy.  I discovered most of this during the 3 month of communication, but meeting her just re-affirmed how wonderful she is.  During our stay at the Airbnb apartments she went grocery shopping and cooked breakfast and sometimes lunch, washed my clothes a few times, kept the apartments neat and tidy, and always looked out for my comfort.  A typical example is opening a bottle of water and offering me the first sip - a small gesture that sort-of defines who she is.  Anyway, back to the trip report.

May 27 - Post landing in Kyiv.  Tanya calls a taxi for me.   Taxi turns out to be someone with a private car, like Uber.  I expected this from reading about trips to Ukraine, but it was interesting to experience it in person.  30+ minutes to get to the hotel, which was Hotel Orly Park.  Tanya recommended it to me because one of her friends recommended it.  Everything about the hotel was great except it's location.  It's in the middle of Orly Park, and a lot of Uber/Uklon/Taxi drivers have a hard time finding it, especially at night.  The road in to the hotel is actually the parking lot for Orly Park, and some map apps do not show it as a valid road.  The cost was $75 US /night for a 1 bedroom suite in the top floor - a huge room with a large living room, bathroom with separate shower and tub, and a nice sized bedroom.  And Tanya reduced that price with her 15% member discount card.   We check in, she collects her little suitcase from the front desk storage, and we head to the room.  She gives me a present - a traditional Ukrainian shirt - Vyshyvanka.  She asks me to try it on and send her a photo - she will be downstairs at the restaurant to get a coffee and wait for me as I shower and refresh from the long flight.  I do as she suggests, showering and trying on the shirt.  I take a photo of it from a full length mirror and then switch to fresh clothes for the night.

Wow.  I realize the wall of text I am putting up here.  I will post some pictures next and continue later.

[SteveInBoston]

Pictures:

[southernX]

nice report so far steve , its good to read a trip report with apositive outlook on it

you will like kiev im sure , enjoy and keep us posted how things pan out for you

regards SX

[Trenchcoat]

Interesting choice of Hotel Steve, it's quite far out from the city centre though which is where I find most of the stuff to do is.

One of my favourite Hotels in Kiev is the Hotel Ukraine, it's slap bang central right in front of Maiden Independence Square in the city centre. Good quality hotel, great history and views and very decently priced for a Kiev city centre hotel. The Dnipro looks another good hotel I would be interested in staying at some time again pretty central but not stayed there yet.

So I'm guessing you're footing the cost of hotel & travelling for her?

[Boethius]

It's not that far - 10 minutes by tram.

[Trenchcoat]

It's not that far - 10 minutes by tram.

Sure but a pain nonetheless when you could be in  heart of the action and just step right out into it each day.

[Boethius]

No, it's not a pain.  I lived in that area, and know it very well.  I also lived just around the corner from Khreshchatyk, near the Dnipro Hotel.  I prefer the former area.

If you are doing touristy things in Kyiv, not everything is centrally located.  Not even all restaurants/bars are in the centre.

Anyway, you look good together, Steve.  Good luck!

[JayH]

No, it's not a pain.  I lived in that area, and know it very well.  I also lived just around the corner from Khreshchatyk, near the Dnipro Hotel.  I prefer the former area.

If you are doing touristy things in Kyiv, not everything is centrally located.  Not even all restaurants/bars are in the centre.

Anyway, you look good together, Steve.  Good luck!

+ 1 on the good luck Steve !

You beat me to it -- Kyiv is relatively extensive with a lot more than the very  centre   to  see and do and places to eat etc

Also of note -- Steve is( actually--that should be a was !!) not alone !!


Steve-- do not worry about the "wall of text" -- just put in into more paragraphs spaced a little !!

[Hammer2722]

Nicely done Steve. As Boe says, you two look good together. Here's to you haveing a very nice trip and hoping it all works out for you two! 

[BillyB]

I did some "Learn Russian While You Sleep" videos

Does that company sell any "Earn a million dollars while you sleep" videos? If so, I'm buying. Thanks for sharing this nice trip report.

[SteveInBoston]

Hi guys, thank you.

The  general location of the hotel (area of town) was not bad, but the specific location - in the middle of the park - made it a bit of a hassle getting taxi drivers to find it.

Trench and anyone else who is curious:  From this forum and from what I have read elsewhere, Ukraine and FSU custom is for the man to pay for just about everything on a date.  Your woman will let you, and expect you, to take the lead and decide on places to go and what to order, etc.  And they prefer you to be a gentleman - open doors, carry the luggage, assist them across steps, and the like.

T acted as I expected - womanly (FSU style) - but was also a bit independent.  She didn't mind suggesting places to go and things to do, menu items to order, etc.  If I ran out of cash for the taxi or a cash only restaurant, she picked up the tab.  I purchased the 1st class train tickets to Odessa (about $25 each), but she purchased the tickets for the overnight train from Odessa to Lviv and from Lviv back to Kyiv.  The few times we went grocery shopping she paid.  But, as expected, I footed most of the bill.   


To pick up where I left off:

I showered, changed and went downstairs.  T decided to get a glass of wine while she waited.  I joined her but picked an awful wine - a gewürztraminer that was recommended by the waiter.   It was cool but not cold (I didn't realize that Ukraine do not keep white wine at refrigerator temperature) and sweet.  I wanted to toss it after one sip but T didn't want me to waste the order.   After two more horrendous sips she acquiesced and we left.   

We went downtown and walked around a bit, making our way to Maidan square.  T is very patriotic about Ukraine - she demonstrated in 2014 and was proud to show me the monument and paid respects at shrines of those who were killed during the protests.  We walked a bit more and eventually went to Petrus-b restaurant.  T was excited to have me try vareniki.  I ordered 3 different types and, well, they were ok.  I am not a fan of the sour creme sauce that came with the dumplings.

T only had a couple - she was dieting because she gained weight in the past month from various parties with friends (birthdays, engagement, girls' night out).  She gained almost 1 kg - LOL.  She ate normal portions for breakfasts (perhaps slightly more than normal) and regular lunches, but decided to eat light dinners.

We took a taxi back to the hotel and spent our first night together.  It was...um...I'll leave it with saying we enjoyed each other's company.  Great 1st day in Ukraine!


May 28:  2nd day in Ukraine. 

We did mostly tourist stuff - Motherland monument, Andriivs'kyi decent, 1 hr river cruise and walks along some parks.  3 things stood out for me:  my first experience with Kvas (not bad), the russian tanks near the Motherland monument (I am a huge fan of military vehicles) and dinner at an Argentinian steak restaurant outside the city called El Gaucho.  I was like a kid looking at the T-34, T-54, T-62, T-64 and other tanks.  I would have loved to see a KV-2 or a T-72.

El Gaucho was a fantastic restaurant.  I highly recommend it.  It is in a wooded area outside of the city, and has several outdoor seating areas under awnings, gazebos and huts. The steaks were fantastic and the wine was very good.  Plus the setting was very romantic for a date.  The only problem was the taxi to the restaurant stopped on the side of the road about 2 km away.  His navigation app stated that was the location of the address - a huge empty lot.  Google Map showed we were 2 km away, down the same road.  The driver didn't want to continue because his app stated we arrived and automatically finalized the fare.  T convinced the taxi driver to keep going, and we made it to the place.   Same thing happened when we called for a taxi. The driver called saying he could not find the restaurant - T told him to keep driving down the road.

Second night together at the hotel.  Even better than the first night.


May 29:

We packed our bags.  T helped me reduce my pack down to about 1/2.  My roll-along luggage has dual zippered sections - I convinced her to pack her things on one side and for me to take my reduced load on the other.  The rest of my clothes I put into her smaller luggage.

We took our final Kiev taxi to see her sister.  Her sister, A, lives and works in Kiev.  I kissed A on both cheeks, and had to kiss her a 3rd time for luck (even numbers are a no-no, I discovered).  We left the small luggage with her and she drove us to the train station.  On the way in we stopped at a grocery store for a make-shift picnic dinner on the train.  I kissed A goodbye (one cheek only) and we boarded our train.

The afternoon train to Odessa was a modern ICE model, not the typical soviet compartment style train.  I think it was called IC+.  I actually purchased all 4 seats around one of the 4 tables in the cabin.  We had plenty of room to relax, have our things nearby, and enjoy our charcuterie style dinner, with wine and beer.  Long, uneventful 7 hour ride to Odessa.

We arrived in Odessa near midnight.  For the first two nights I booked a seaside room at the M1 Club hotel.  I arranged beforehand to have champagne and fruit waiting for us in the room - I told them it was an early birthday celebration for my girlfriend (which was technically true - her birthday was 3 weeks away).  Great hotel, great room, with a balcony looking out over the black sea.  Another wonderful night, and our first day in Odessa.


I want to point out something - I had a fantastic time in Ukraine, which I will go in more detail later, due to T.   First, just meeting her in real life and being with her was wonderful.  But without her I could not have navigated the pitfalls some have experienced - communication difficulties with taxi drivers, not knowing what to order in restaurants, and even not knowing how to order a drink with ice.  If at all possible, I think it is best meet someone online and arrange to meet them, rather than going there and winging it.  But then again, it will be a cool adventure doing the latter and having interesting stories to share.

Next post:  Odessa!

[jone]

Keep it up, Steve. 

We're enjoying your trip.

[myrddin]

Hi guys, thank you.


I want to point out something -
  If at all possible, I think it is best meet someone online and arrange to meet them, rather than going there and winging it.  But then again, it will be a cool adventure doing the latter and having interesting stories to share.

Next post:  Odessa!

Thanks, Steve.

On all  trips, I had help from someone in-country (more recently family and friends, but before that trusted rwd members).  I always have contigency plans, too (even now), but the most important thing is attitude when facing inevitable bumps in the (literal and figurative) road - no amount of planning can stand up to the FSU.

I'm glad things went so well for you! 

[Davo2]

In case anyone is interested, I checked the DM notify webpage statistics on hypestat. Their website receives 280 visitors per day. That alone wouldn't be a warning sign, as I met my FSU wife from a small agency(25 years ago before widespread internet), but this agency boasts 2.7 million members on their home page. That would mean members would only check once every several years

Maybe that's an average over many years...... Since I've been a member there has been a lot of traffic, several thousand women checking in everyday and usually 200-400 on line at any one time.

I've only been on two sites DM and f dating. I found with fdating, women didn't make first contact as often as DM, but reply rates when I made contact are very similar.

Billy was concerned that I was receiving to many messages when I first signed up  and it wasn't realistic (I had this concern also)..... But after chatting , all but one seemed genuine (some I didn't talk to long).

I think in my case, being from Australia, may have contributed to the amount or women contacting me. Many women have Australia on top of their list in their search for a spouse. I did a search of Aussie men aged 20-60 and I'm not boasting, I'm an average guy, but there really was not much competition and only a handful of full members that can reply to messages. I haven't been a full member for several weeks and as of this morning I have 19 new messages from women. 

[Trenchcoat]

Well she sounds decent enough if she's not sticking rigidly to the 'man pays' mantra for everything Steve. I find women I'm their thirties onwards can be more reasonable on this than younger women. Your second day our to that restaurant in that city is an interesting choice. There's tons more stuff you could have done in Kiev city centre alone. So more cities are interesting but I'm not sure you will have seen enough of each. Lviv in itself has loads of stuff to see.

Your point of a girl as a tour guide is a good one. I would have been totally lost too on my first trip to Kiev without the girl I met. Fortunately things are getting better now only a mere two years on with stuff like Uber & Uklon mobile apps where you can book taxi's for the same price as the locals If you are still out there try & get a Lifecell sim or similar so you can do this next time. Becoming more able to do a trip without relying on a girl is a real development I feel though I've always enjoyed those trips more so far to date when already set up with a solid girl for the duration.

[SteveInBoston]

Hello everyone.

About DM notify:

I can't comment about the average traffic.  They are unusual in that when I signed up, I logged into russian-ukrainian-women.com.  T logged into a different website, VIP-Royal-Date.com or something like that.  They are all link into DMnotify.com.  I found this out one day when I could not see past messages.  The web support staff told me to log into DMnotify.com, which fixed my issue. 

In the first two weeks about a dozen women initiated contact, with about 3 or 4 of them being scammers (asking to message via personal email only and then sending long letters once a day with tons of details about their day and how they loved me and missed me, no matter what I wrote in response).  I sent about 30 - 40 messages in total - some didn't respond, some stated they were interested in someone else already, and one said I was outside her desired age range (I limited my search to women who were 30+).  In those two weeks, I started genuine communication with about 15 women.  After a while it came down to 4 women.   T was one of the women who contacted me first, via their match game (like tinder - you go through pictures of many women and say yes or no.  If both say yes it notifies both parties).  She was not in my search because of height - I limited that to women the same height or less (I am 5'7" - 170, she is 5'9" - 175).  I am eternally thankful she sent me that first message.


Davo2:  Interesting what you said about Australians.  T initially had no interest in Americans.  Her preference was men from Greece, Spain...or Australia. 


Back to the trip report.  May 30:

T and I spent the whole day at M1 Club Hotel.  I arranged a surprise for her - a massage and aromatherapy session.  The hotel staff set up the equipment in our room and I headed downstairs to work out a bit and then went up to the rooftop bar (P1 Prosecco Bar) with my laptop to work.  There was an urgent project at home and they needed some help.  I was able to use VPN to solve the issue.  This gave me an idea - I could potentially spend more time in Ukraine and work remotely.  Hmmm.

T joined me up there after her massage and we had lunch.  Afterwards she went to the hotel beauty salon for a haircut - she didn't like the style she got in Kyiv.  I finished my work, put away my laptop and joined T at the beach.  The "beach" at the hotel is actually a wood and concrete deck that leads to the black sea via swimming pool style stairs.  We relax on sun loungers, except we were in the shade - T doesn't like sunbathing until after 5 PM.  One of her quirks.  To be fair, she does have really fair skin.  I actually prefer being in the shade, so win-win. 

She had her first margarita (we texted about it a few weeks ago) and I had a vodka martini, slightly dirty.  Confused the hell out of the bar staff.  I had a hard time getting T to understand that I wanted them to add the pickling brine from the olive jar.  She eventually translated it for me, to puzzled looks.  In the end I had a watered down martini with a very sad olive.  And found out later they charged me an additional 120 grivnas for the olive - about $5.  First and last time I ordered a custom drink.

That evening we went back to the P1 Prosecco bar for dinner.  We noticed at the table behind us there were 2 young, pretty girls with a couple of older men.  It seemed one of the men introduced the girls to the other guy, and then he stepped away.  Client entertainment?

After dinner T and I came to the same conclusion about the M1 Club Hotel.  Very nice, exclusive boutique hotel, but the service was lacking based on price of lodging.  The waiter was inattentive, my dinner (sea bass) was cold when it arrived, and he left out one of our orders.  T had the waiter replace the cold dish for a fresh one, and the manager came over to apologize.  She may have deducted the cost as well, I think.  The majority of the staff, except the front desk (who were excellent), seemed to go through the motions of their shift.  Maybe it was because it was still off-season?   Anyway, I would rank M1 Club 3 or 3.5 out of 5, mainly due to cost vs service/expectation.  It is a great hotel at a fantastic location, but there are better accommodations in Odessa.

We end the night by sitting at our balcony, looking out across the glittering sea under the moonlit night.  Actually we end the night in bed, but that is not as poetic. 


May 31:  Arcadia!

We get up and enjoy the complementary breakfast (sort-of, there is an option to get the room without breakfast for a lower rate).  The breakfast was actually very good.   Afterwards we check out and take a taxi to our Airbnb apartment in Arcadia.  The apartment is on the 9th floor of a 20 story building.  It is a 1 bedroom with a great view of the sea.  I think it is listed as Sea and Sky Apartment on Airbnb.  I highly recommend it - 5 stars.  While I take a shower T went downstairs for groceries.  We spend the afternoon inside, fooling around.  There is a British slang for this - tickling?  slapping silly? -  Help me out guys.

After our fun we get a bit lazy but get up to head out for dinner.  We took an Uklon to Tavernetta.  First time using Uklon - hooray!  In Odessa I exclusively used Uklon, except for the taxis arranged by M1 Hotel.  Tavernetta was the best restaurant I visited during this trip.  T agrees.  Fantastic waiter - Slava.  Attentive without being annoying, answered any questions we had about the dishes or drinks, made great wine recommendations, and had a warm and professional attitude.  If only the staff at M1 was half as good...  The food was very good, on par or better than anything I had in Ukraine.    Tavernetta - 2 thumbs up!

We finish our dinner around 11 PM and take an Uklon back to our apartment.  We figure out how to get T's favorite channel on the TV (1 + 1) and then head to bed.  She likes falling asleep to the sound of the TV.  Another great day in Odessa, even though I have been to only 3 places.


Next post:  T makes Breakfast!!!

[SteveInBoston]

June 1:  Breakfast!

First morning at the apartment in Arcadia.  T makes breakfast of omelets, sausages, herb bread with cheese and caviar, sliced cucumbers and tomatoes, and stuffed peppers, along with black tea for me and coffee for her.  Everything was delicious except the caviar - I am not a fan.  It was an inexpensive orange type (trout caviar?), but I probably wouldn't have liked it even if it was the expensive variety.  I like fish, but only the mild tasting types.   After breakfast I did the dishes and she washed a load of my laundry.  I took a shower, she tidied up the apartment and we headed out to the Prymors'kyi district of Odessa.  We walked around a lot, visiting the Potemkin Stairs, Opera Theater, and the shops along Derybasivska street. 

T was looking for a specific Diesel handbag she saw in March when she visited Odessa.  She wanted to wait until it was on sale, but that handbag was sold out.  We instead got a couple pairs of shoes - comfortable loafers for me and sandals for her.  I quickly realized that although Ukraine is cheap, for meals and lodging and regular items, clothes are as expensive as in the West, especially for brands like Diesel and Tommy Hilfger and the like. 

We headed to Sophie Cafe for a late lunch.  It is highly rated on Tripadvisor, but turned out to be average.  Definitely not as good as Tavernetta, although Sophie is rated higher.  After lunch we continued our walk around the city, going past several museums and monuments.  T kept checking my back pockets.  She warned me to be careful of pickpockets - to keep my wallet in my front pocket.  She was testing me all day by occasionally checking.  She caught me once when due to habit I put the wallet away back there after buying something.  By the end of the day I was good about keeping it in the front, and kept teasing her that what she really wanted had to wait until we were back at our apartment. 

We weren't hungry after the late lunch so we stopped at a grocery store on the way back and picked up some snacks for the apartment (wine, cheese and artisan cured meats).  We ate our light dinner back at the apartment and then sat down for a serious discussion.

I told her that I was having a great time, and that everything was turning out better than I expected.  I've had some feelings for her as I got to know her from texting, but meeting her affirmed she was who I was looking for, who I wanted to be with.  She agreed - she initially limited her expectations to having a couple of fun weeks together, but was pleasantly surprised how well we got along.  Hope for the best but plan for the worst?  Well, it seemed the best happened.  We decided to be committed to each other, and spent the evening sharing war stories - our online and offline dating experiences.   


June 2:

Another wonderful breakfast by T.  This time it's shakshuka, my favorite thing for breakfast.  She made it with fresh tomatoes, peppers, onions and curry powder.  Delicious, but to be honest, second runner to shakshuka at a middle eastern cafe in Boston.  To her I say it is the best I ever had!

After breakfast we walked to Ibiza beach club, which is about 1 km from the apartment.  We rented a lounge bed for 1000 UAH, which required an additional 1000 UAH food and beverage deposit.  We spent the afternoon exhausting the deposit and had a relaxing day. 

Even though I am a newly committed man by then, there were very beautiful, scantily clad women at Ibiza.  T didn't mind me looking, probably because I wasn't ogling or drooling at anyone.  There was one comment she made, which I agreed.  One mother had a 1 or 2 year old baby with her and sat near one of the loudspeakers in the area.  That day they had a guest DJ and the music was pretty loud - typical dance and club music.  She and I thought it odd and irresponsible to bring such a young kid to that area.

If you are single and sightseeing in Odessa in the summer, head to Ibiza or similar beach club.  Plenty of sightseeing to be had. 

I forgot what we did that evening.  I think we ate out?  Well, if we did the place wasn't that memorable.


June 3:  Train to Lviv

We had a simple breakfast of leftovers, packed and met the apartment owner around noon and checked out.  We took an Uklon to the train station to place our luggage in storage.   We walked around the city center a bit more, and went to Kotelok Mussles Bar for lunch.  Very good restaurant - I had the steamed mussles and T had fried herring - one of her favorite dishes.  Second to Tavernetta for Odessa, in my opinion.

We walked around the city after lunch, stopping at a make-shift shack that was a coffee bar and ordered iced coffee.  We then made our way back to the train station area and stopped by a cafe for some snacks.  There I met the most difficult thing I faced the entire trip - an unpronounceable menu item.  Свежевыжатые сокі - svezhevyzhatiye soki.   Fresh Juices. 

After T finished laughing at me it was time to head across the street to get our luggage and board the train.  T booked a first class sleeper cabin for us - my first trip on a soviet style train.  We settled in, the train headed out, and the attendant gave us our complimentary tea/coffee.  The A/C was turned off - it was cool evening.  But it got stuffy in the cabin so we had the window open with the shade pulled down over it - a very awkward arrangement.  The window pulls out into the cabin to open, and the shade is on a guide track to be pulled down or up.  This caused a bulge at the top of the shade where the window was opened. 

We tried to snuggle into one bed, but the bed/cot was too narrow for two people to be comfortable.  So...our first and only evening slept apart. 

Next -- Lviv!

[BillyB]

 Seems like she genuinely cares about you. Courting a woman is a fun phase to go through. Seems like you're definitely having fun and things are moving in the right direction. Grats on your commitment to each other.

[SteveInBoston]

June 4:  Lviv

I am not going to go into specific daily details about Lviv.  We spent almost a week there and it is my favorite city in Ukraine so far.  I love older cities with a dense city center where you don't need a car or taxi - everything is in walking distance.  Like Avignon or Edinburgh.  I highly suggest some travel videos or vlogs on youtube that shows the city.

I rented another Airbnb apartment for Lviv.  A 1 bedroom unit on the 1st floor (1st floor off the ground floor, that is) in an older, grand building.  I think the address was Panteleimona Kulisha St, 24, about 500 meters north of the Opera.  For anyone curious, Google maps has a great street level view of the building and the surrounding area.  Our apartment was the corner unit, the one with the balcony.  It extends to one window along Panteleimona Kulisha and 2 windows along the cross street - Medova?

We arrive way early - overnight sleeper train from Odessa that got in around 8 AM.  The owner was kind enough to allow us to check in right away, instead of having us wait until 2PM.  We took an Uber from the train station to the apartment.  First time using Uber in Ukraine!  Actually, first time T and I ever used Uber.  During our 6 days/5 nights in Lviv we used Uber 4 times total.  The rest of the time we walked, and once we took the tram.

This was my first experience at a typical or traditional Ukrainian apartment.  The stairway was dark and dingy, with exposes live wire on one wall and a busted light at the 1st landing.  It was almost too dark at night, but manageable.  The building had a central courtyard that was in disrepair, with clotheslines crisscrossing above from the 2 levels of apartments. 

The apartment layout was unusual, at least for me.  A long, narrow entryway from the door to the kitchen, which was also long and narrow.  The entryway and kitchen was laid out in L-shape.  Door from the other side of the kitchen to the bathroom.  Opening to the right (next to the bathroom door) to a narrow living room.  Door from the center of the living room to a large, spacious bedroom.  Bedroom was the same or larger in size than the size of the combined living room/kitchen/entry/bathroom.

I really liked the windows and door to the balcony.  They were double hinged - they opened fully sideways, and opened partially from a hinge on the bottom (la "V" shape when looking at the window side-on).  Pretty cool.  Unfortunately, the windows were the only way to keep the apartment cool - no AC.  It seemed most apartment in Lviv didn't have AC - something about difficulties with permits to add an AC unit that changes the historic exterior appearance of the building.  Maybe they can install one with the condenser unit on the courtyard side? 

Before the owner left she and T had a long conversation.  She told T the location of nearby grocery stores, including a huge on at a shopping mall just 500 meters to the north (Forum Lviv?).  She also made recommendations for the best restaurants for breakfast specifically and recommendations for best restaurants for lunch/dinner.  Awesome.

I want to point our another wonderful thing about T.  She has traveled extensively as a tourist - I think she's traveled to more places than I have.  One of the things that peaked my interest in her was a profile photo of her in Machu Pichu, Peru.  She has been to Peru, Venezuela (she says it's the most beautiful country she's visited), Bolivia, Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, Egypt, Greece, Spain, Portugal and Poland.  Also several FSU countries.  She has this natural way of speaking to strangers to get insider info on places to go or things to see.  She's very good at putting people at ease and getting them to open up and share.  Except once, which I will get into later.

Quick summary of our activities in Lviv:

• Walked around everywhere, even to Lychakiv Cemetary, which is 3 km away.
• Enjoyed various restaurants in the city center, details of 4 of them below.
• Took the tram once - on the way back from Lychakiv Cemetary.
• Had plans to do some tours - museums, rooftop tour, etc - but ended up with enjoying each-other's company too much and didn't have the time/desire.
• T made more greats breakfasts and a few lunches.
• Flooded the apartment once when we had the windows opened and was out when a thunderstorm rolled through.  Minor flooding - 4 bath towels' worth of water to soak up.
• Got some gifts for my friends/family, including a vishivanki shirt T purchased for my sister.
• Lviv Chocolates - yum!
• Lviv Croissants - good.
• Day trip to Bukovel - details to follow
• Kryivka - Slava Ukraini!
• She said Yes! - details below

Kryivka

What an awesome place.  I will not spoil it - you have to experience it yourself.  If you only visit one restaurant in Lviv, go to Kryivka (unless you are Russian)

Kumpel

Cool restaurant/micro brewery.  Went to the one that is just north of the Opera.  They have a gift shop on the first floor of the building with souvenirs and a few food items to take home.  The beer was very good, and we had the tableside grill menu item.  A bit like hot pot or Korean BBQ for any here that have experienced it - they bring out various raw meats (beef, chicken, pork), several sauces for dipping, and a charcoal grill for you to cook at the table.


Meat and Justice

Another cool restaurant.  It has a huge bbq pit/grill section in the open kitchen.  Grilled meats is their specialty, and they have a performance they do at 9 PM every evening.   Please check the time - it might be different from what I recall.  My favorite dish there was actually a soup/stew.  I forgot the name of it - T told me it may be a Hungarian dish?  Huge chunks of meat in it, and very savory.   It is a bit difficult to get to, even with google maps.  It is inside of a fortified walled yard at the back of the Bernadine Church.  Had to walk along the wall until we found an opening.


She said yes and The Most Expensive Galician Restaurant

I have no doubt in my mind I want to marry T.  T wasn't as sure, but she was open to the possibility of a proposal some day.  So back in Odessa I asked T what type of ring she prefers - diamond solitare, plain, type of cut, etc.  She said that she liked rings from Zarina, a Ukraine jewelry store chain that has custom designs.

On our first day in Lviv we went to Zarina.  T preferred sapphire, and picked out a couple of styles.  Just as an idea of what I should look for in the future.

On a whim I asked T to look at rings in another jewelry store - Zoloty Vik.  She notices a diamond ring that she really likes.  The diamond is small, about .2 carat or so.  But it is surrounded by smaller diamonds and the effect makes it look bigger - about 3/4 of a carat.  When she wore it she and I got excited about the reality of it - that we would be engaged sometime soon.  So, we talked a bit, one thing led to another, and we picked out matching wedding bands of the same style as the solitaire.

In the end, I placed a small deposit (200 UAH) for the rings to "think about it overnight".  Next morning, as T made breakfast, I headed out to get some "shaving cream".  I stopped by a florist - by the way, flowers are CHEAP in Ukraine, $15 for huge bouquet that would be $100+ in the US - and went to Zoloty Vik.  I purchased the solitaire and wedding band set, less than $2k for all three. 

I head back to the apartment...and spring the question.  T is not surprised, much to my chagrin, but she said Yes!  I am rubbish with my subterfuge.  We took some photos, texted our friends and family, and talked to her mom who called right away. 

That evening we head to The Most Expensive Galician Restaurant.  There are some elements on how to find the place and get in, which I will not spoil.  It is formal style of restaurant, separated into several dining rooms.  We have a wonderful meal, pretty good wine, and several awesome photos.   Even though everything there is super expensive, we were offered a member discount card that lowered our bill by 90%!  And by lucky coincidence, we noticed that all the other diners qualified for the discount that night.   


Next:  The day trip to Bukovel

[ML]

June 4:  Lviv

She has traveled extensively as a tourist   She has been to Peru, Venezuela, Bolivia, Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, Egypt, Greece, Spain, Portugal and Poland.  Also several FSU countries. 

Oh My . . .

[JayH]

Oh My . . .

Da !

[Trenchcoat]

Lviv is currently my favourite Ukrainian city too, however after a while you come to notice everything is geared to extracting money from tourists and a lot of quasi-phoney tourist attractions have grown up that never were loosely based of Lviv history etc. A lot of monuments exist that have just been put in over the last decade or so. Still it has lovely traditional architecture and I must admit to enjoying the tourist trap stuff myself. The gas lantern restaurant was a fun place and the pork & rib restaurant below the armoury was good also.

Time over again with a girl in the Ukraine though I wouldn't go the western 'engagement ring' route. In the FSU it is traditional for local guys just to get a bunch of flowers and ask the girl, if she accepts the proposal that is it, no ring or anything just the promise to marry, wedding bands are bought later. I can see why they do this now, it makes great common sense - if things later go south the girl does not walk off laughing with expensive rings. The guy does not waste money, in FSU he could be taken for a ride time and again by women that go after guys just to get expensive rings. I'm not saying your girl is suspect here Steve but a $1500 can be a year's salary for many women in Ukraine. Conversely going the FSU engagement route the girl is pretty much committed when it gets to the wedding band stage, i.e the wedding, and they can be pretty cheap anyway so if a girl is encountered who is not for real then she is not likely to be interested in going through it just for that. I think this custom has come about for good reason, a genuine girl will stick by you on a promise alone, so I say when in Ukraine do as the Ukrainians do, it's the best way to ensure you've got a solid girl

[John Gaunt]

We took a taxi back to the hotel and spent our first night together.  It was...um...I'll leave it with saying we enjoyed each other's company.  Great 1st day in Ukraine!

A fumble on the first night!!!!!
You would be wise to abandon all thoughts of marriage at this point. You don’t know this woman and are being led by the little head.

[Hammer2722]

A fumble on the first night!!!!!
You would be wise to abandon all thoughts of marriage at this point. You don’t know this woman and are being led by the little head.

Alittle too late for that don't you think. Without looking like a complete ass. While I agree that proposing after about a week of vacation meeting is pretty foolish, its his mistake to make.


Steve, have you done any reading on this forum before going to meet this lady? She may seem like a great lady. Many a guy has come to the same conclusion after a 1 week meeting. I am one of them. I proposed on my second trip. It took 2 more trips to see my "fiance" before finding out she was meeting another man while I was in the states preparing for her k1.


If she really loves you and you her, you should proceed slowly. What is your rush?

[John Gaunt]

Alittle too late for that don't you think. Without looking like a complete ass. While I agree that proposing after about a week of vacation meeting is pretty foolish, its his mistake to make.


Steve, have you done any reading on this forum before going to meet this lady? She may seem like a great lady. Many a guy has come to the same conclusion after a 1 week meeting. I am one of them. I proposed on my second trip. It took 2 more trips to see my "fiance" before finding out she was meeting another man while I was in the states preparing for her k1.


If she really loves you and you her, you should proceed slowly. What is your rush?

No, not really. Better to look like an ass now than be a victim in the not too distant future.

[IvanM07]

Several red flags here man,

Sex on the first day of meeting, 90% discount from a restaurant she likely picked, traveled all over the world including south America not just typical places nearby, and she picked out a $1500 ring that as trench said isn't typical to have an engagement ring.

Any of these on their own would be a red flag and cause for caution but together I think she's trying to screw you over. Cancel the K1 if you already started.

[Boethius]

Several red flags here man,

Sex on the first day of meeting

Not unusual for a woman in her late thirties/early forties in Ukraine, given the lack of men.  Women have needs too, you know.

90% discount from a restaurant she likely picked

Across the country from where she lives?  That would be a scammer extraordinaire!

The 90% coupon is just a marketing ploy.  It happens every night. for all patrons.
 

traveled all over the world including south America not just typical places nearby, and she picked out a $1500 ring that as trench said isn't typical to have an engagement ring.

I'm not certain the travel is a red flag.  She may have traveled to all those places with one man, or two different men, or some solo.

Engagement rings are not a Ukrainian custom.  But Ukrainians know it is a Western custom.

[IvanM07]

Not unusual for a woman in her late thirties/early forties in Ukraine, given the lack of men.  Women have needs too, you know.

Across the country from where she lives?  That would be a scammer extraordinaire!

The 90% coupon is just a marketing ploy.  It happens every night. for all patrons.
 
I'm not certain the travel is a red flag.  She may have traveled to all those places with one man, or two different men, or some solo.  Or some of it could have been work related.  I know UW who travel the world for work.

Engagement rings are not a Ukrainian custom.  But Ukrainians know it is a Western custom.

Cool, you're right as always Bo, all is right in the world ignore me and carry forth on the K1 

[Boethius]

I'm just saying that not everything you pointed to is a red flag.  The restaurant definitely was not a red flag.  I've been to that restaurant.  It's a marketing ploy.  Everyone gets a 90% discount every night.  But yes, you could be correct.  She could have arranged a 90% discount for everyone in the restaurant, in a city over 800 km from where she lives.

Having sex with someone you built a connection with is not a red flag.  Ukrainians don't have the same hang ups about sex as do Americans.  Plus, there are what my husband called "sex deprived" women.  He used to get hit on all the time, almost always, by women in their thirties, because there is a lack of men due to high rates of alcoholism.

If you look for red flags, you invariably will find them.  We don't know how she traveled abroad, but Steve probably does.  I'm not saying there are not "flags", just that there are plausible explanations for everything as well.

[BillyB]

Steve has communicated with his fiancée 3 months before visiting her. I don't consider him marrying a stranger. Only he knows the quality of his correspondence with the lady he's going to marry and they may know each other very well before making the decision to marry.

She's well travelled but she may also make good money. I don't think she's after Steve's money. She paid for some of their taxis and train trips. She doesn't always eat out and  she cooked food for Steve, washed clothes, and cleaned the apartments. If she's clumsy doing those chores, then a guy could be suspicious a woman is faking it. If she's skilled at those chores, then she'll probably be a good wife. Steve's fiancée also chose a ring with a .2 carat center stone. It's not like she wanted to empty Steve's bank account on that decision. Let's not scare him into getting cold feet just yet.

[Hammer2722]

Steve has communicated with his fiancée 3 months before visiting her. I don't consider him marrying a stranger. Only he knows the quality of his correspondence with the lady he's going to marry and they may know each other very well before making the decision to marry.

She's well travelled but she may also make good money. I don't think she's after Steve's money. She paid for some of their taxis and train trips. She doesn't always eat out and  she cooked food for Steve, washed clothes, and cleaned the apartments. If she's clumsy doing those chores, then a guy could be suspicious a woman is faking it. If she's skilled at those chores, then she'll probably be a good wife. Steve's fiancée also chose a ring with a .2 carat center stone. It's not like she wanted to empty Steve's bank account on that decision. Let's not scare him into getting cold feet just yet.

Yes on the rings. He paid 1500.00 for the whole wedding set. Not just the engagement ring if I recall. I just paid almost 5k for mine and my wife's engagement and wedding set so $1500.00 is not that much reallly.

[ML]

Yes on the rings. He paid 1500.00 for the whole wedding set. Not just the engagement ring if I recall. I just paid almost 5k for mine and my wife's engagement and wedding set so $1500.00 is not that much reallly.

I paid something like $2.99 for a packet of 3 rings for me at a teenager's trinket shop.
Wore one of them twice, for wedding and to visit immigration.  I can't stand ring on finger.

[Trenchcoat]

I don't think its a full gone conclusion that she's not straight up, only time will tell on that one. I think that there are some flags of suspicion - that she may use men for holidaying, that her smoothness with proceedure is down to that, that she comes from an area Steve is unlikely to be able to visit as its near the conflict zone so too dangerous for a foreigner and that Steve has rolled into buying what to most people in Ukraine would be relatively expensive rings.

All that may come to not mean a thing and she may be genuinely into Steve.

What I'm learning along the way in this search is a need to play a tighter game. Being able to visit a girl's home town up front does this, proposing with Roses instead of a Ring does this, avoiding holidaying or clothes shopping does this, avoiding putting up photos where I may look very wealthy does this, etc - that not doing these things while not meaning I've got a bad one does mean I leave myself more vulnerable to a bad one should I be with one. Getting a bad one to shove off by showing her she has little to gain is no bad thing I think. It's also reasuring that when playing a tighter game I'm not worringing about - Is she really with me for this? or that? dubious reason.

If a girl were to question me on a ring thing I would say I just wishes to respect her custom seeing that she is Russian, Ukrainian, etc. If she has a problem with that then that could well be a Red Flag.

I think Steve as a first outing is handling it how many of us handle it, without having done this scene before his game is likely to be pretty loose and hence vulnerable. So its just down to luck and hopefully he's intuition to see if it comes through for him I think.

Please though Steve continue the trip report    
 

[Davo2]

Even though I would have taken a bit longer as I definitely don't want to repeat what I've just been through. At the end of the month I'll finally be free of my mistake, a bad choice I made 20 years ago. It's taken me 3 years and 130k to reach a conclusion.

At the end of the day, the path of international dating / marriage is a high risk high reward enterprise. It's all relative. If he had made 3-4 trips as many do, he still would have only replicated 2 months of dating locally, before proposing. 1, 3, 6 trips.... You're still in the honeymoon period where you are both presenting your best side and it's maybe not the real you or her. Even after 4 trips,  It's an insanely short period of time to get engaged, when you actually think about it. It's acceptable here on this site, but I'm sure most of your friends and family would privately be thinking you've lost your marbles.

There wouldn't be many guys who actually knew their wives before they started living together and to be honest you're lying if you say you did. It takes years and I can tell you right now, you can live with a woman for 20 years and still not fully comprehend what she's capable of or her true personality.

Steve, congratulations i hope it works out for you and without being a downer, you have the same chance as everyone else of being successful in a modern marriage. If you have known her for a week or like me 5 years before you get engaged, your odds are the same as winning a coin toss, maybe more if some of the international marriage stats are to believe. You have the chance to get to know her now and see if your instincts are  correct.

[SteveInBoston]

Lots of comments!

Let me address a few items:

The Most Expensive Galician Restaurant.  <--- The "title" says it all - the prices on the menu are astronomical but everyone gets a 90% "discount" - basically, remove the last 0 from all menu items for the actual price.

The places she traveled:  with her ex husband.  Except for Spain, Portugal and Greece.  Greece was just after they split.  Spain and Portugal was a recent trip to visit a friend who was getting married to a guy from Barcelona.

Wedding rings - seems not to be a popular thing in Ukraine.  Maybe a simple wedding band at the most.  She humored me at my insistence - I was pointing out $5k - $10k rings online, she steered me to something simpler.

She is wealthy by Ukraine standards, normal per Western.  She and her ex husband owned several retail stores. 

Sex on our first day:  She's 40, I'm 49.  Neither one of us has hang ups about it.  Also, this is after 3 months / 350 pages of Whatsapp chat and occasional voice and video calls.   It would have been odd/awkward if we were not intimate - 2 weeks of planned cohabitation in hotel rooms/apartments with 1 bed...

She has dated other men, as I had dated other women.  I think I mentioned that we shared our dating stories with each other in Odessa?  After I returned, she spent a day in Kiev with her sister then took an overnight train east to her city.  The following day she went to a nail salon to fix a nail that she split during our trip.  Then to the bank, and then to the gym.  Following day she drove to a nearby town to meet her friend and talk about me.  She stayed overnight in her friend's son's bed - one of those race car beds.  She woke up the following morning with some rashes.  She was worried about an infection or an allergic reaction, but discovered her skin was irritated by sand in the bed from her friend's son's sandpit.  She cleared out all the sand, spent one more night there, irritation free, and drove home the next day.   

How do I know any of the above is true?  Shared photos, miss you video calls and about 10 pages of Whatsapp messages each day.  There is always the remote possibility that all of it are elaborate lies, but that would be extremely impressive.  I think I have a pretty good handle on our relationship.  Thank you all for your concerns and warnings - I will keep my eye out.

Oh, I started the K1 visa.  NOA1 received June 22.  Timeline for NOA2 is estimated at January 7 or so according to visa journey.  What is the rush?  She is 40, I am 49.  Both of us desire children.  I don't have any from previous relationships, she had a miscarriage which was one of the factors of her splitting up with her ex.  We will probably need to visit a specialist.   Time is ticking...

Next post:  Bukovel and Difficulties with Demonstrators.
 

[JayH]

Ok -- I am good on explanations - so thankyou.-- particularly on travel.

The issue of a much travelled girl is the "how she could be doing it" . There are numerous ways that can happen.
One is the obvious that ML alluded too.

On travel-- this is different to earlier times -- it is possible to get incredibly cheap flights from Ukraine to many countries  now. Charter flights ( that are basically a subscribed purchase) that could go to eg Spain.Egypt,Turkey ,Maldives,Thailand  etc etc could cost as little or less than $100 return . Girls will save for a year or more for a 7-10 day holiday -- sometimes to a fixed price including meals accommodation that is very cheap by western standards.

Regardless of what some backward thinking cretins think -- a girl with a job can be doing relatively ok -- and in some types of work very ok.
That all needs to be considered these days before jumping to any conclusions prematurely.

[Trenchcoat]

Well Steve it looks like those Flags if suspicion are unlikely to be a problem in your case. Many that are can indeed be unfounded in reality. So well done to you in sounding it all out so early on in this venture

I know from looking up over some women I have been interested in that the chances of fertility are not good for women in their forties. The percentage chance is pretty low each month, that and problems can be a risk. If she has had a miscarriage already then that probably adds to the potential problems. I think though if I were in your place there is little other choice than to shoot for it and hope for the best. I think you have a lot balls going for all of this at your age so well done and good luck with it all

[myrddin]

Thanks for sharing your story, Steve.


The shade of red can change with age and experience.
Personally, I think the engagement was a bit quick, but ultimately that decision is up to only 2 people.
 I see someone who dealt with advice, issues, and his own experience before making his own choices.  I'm guessing you read a lot here before joining officially.


Congratulations, and best of luck

[jone]

I, for one, enjoyed the trip report.  There is nothing unusual about falling in love and getting engaged.  However, I will say that until two people have lived together and found common ground on cultural issues, it is difficult to assess the success of the relationship.

I recommend finding a place, mutually acceptable, and live together for a month or two.  Such living arrangements make up for a whole lotta "oh, you think that?" type moments.

[southernX]

gday steve

mate , i can say only you two know if it is right or not , time spent together does not always let you ''know ''your partners true self

people are adept at hiding parts of themselves if they want or need to to gain others approval in many subtle ways

years ago i got married after an 18 month engagement and 4 years of living with my partner at that time [now ex wife ]

i wanted to be sure it was right , se we took our time, however after 18 years i found she was not the person i though i had known by her actions and it was surprising how she had almost lead a double life , in secret and betrayed my trust

small things at times i ignored and did not pick up on later became timelines  where i had been betrayed badly  which later revealed themselves to their fullest extent

we dont always know people like we think we do , but we do know  ourselves and what values we have , and what we need to be happy if we do enough self discovery

when i met my now wife we very quickly discovered a strong bond and it just grew very intense very quickly , almost beyond belief to be honest when i look back ..
like you we communicated for several months before i travelled to meet her , like your story there are similarities , but some differences , but mostly the bond of trust and attraction was strong between us and we both felt that intrinsically

hard to explain that to ''others '' but i trusted my gut instinct and my experience with her over our short relationship time with a lot of reflection on the choices i could take

 we got engaged on my first trip after 3 weeks together now  nearly 9 years on and we are still strong and have grown together in ways i could not have imagined back then , !!and im very glad i trusted my own judgements as my wife has enriched my life so much for the better , we both are not perfect and we have had differences over that time , often over very small things that have escalated funny enough  , but they have bonded us even more and the trust and commitment has grown ever more

back then friends , family cautioned me that i might get hurt emotionaly and financialy !!    question i  asked them is what is the difference from my prior long term relationship and divorce ??  in the end you just have to trust your judgements and take a risk or not , make achoice or not and then be the best person you can be to make it work !! as nothing is gauranteed in this life

my wife is strong , independent , has high moral values , works hard at anything she puts her mind to achieve, is very direct in her views or opinions and does not suffer fools gladly , she is intense ,soft , compassionate , caring and kind  loves deeply and is incredibly loyal !! and can be as determined as she is stubborn 

in my experience this is not for every one and certainly needs a high level of trust and preparedness to be challenged by another strong person in many ways if you are to succeed

you wont be a knight  saving some poor girl in distress thats for sure 



you cant change others , and you cant control others , all you can reasonably do is be your best & make if difficult for them to not love you and respect you , and to support them to be the best they can be imo

travel your own journey with this adventure and trust yourself first imo

keep us posted as you continue on the adventure ,

best wishes of what life has to offer you both

SX

[SteveInBoston]

SouthernX,

Thank you for sharing.  I feel the same with T that you felt for your now wife - I hope to have a great relationship like yours.

Jone,

That could happen.  I am going back to Ukraine to spend a month, possibly two, with her.  I have to set up things at my job to work remotely.

Back to the trip report:

June 7:

I had a strong desire to visit the Carpathians - my grandfather was from eastern Slovakia, somewhere in those mountains. So, I rented a car for 1 day in Lviv.  I checked various rental companies, local and international, and ended up renting from Avis, mostly due to having unlimited miles for the 1 day rental (other companies had a 200km limit).  I might have been able to min/max by calculating the extra mileage fees, but decided to just go with Avis.

We took an Uber in the morning to Lviv airport.  We got the car - a Volkswagen Polo - and headed South.  Our destination was Bukovel - a ski resort town south of Ivano-Frankivsk.  T picked the destination - she and her ex used to go there in the winter. 

The drive down was unremarkable, other than the poor road conditions in Ukraine.  The main route from Lviv to Ivano-Frankivsk was pretty good, on E-471 and H-10.  But there was a section on H-10 where the road was almost unpaved - perhaps they were going to re-pave it soon?  A notable part was T getting concerned when I blew through the first town on H-10 at full speed - apparently there is a maximum speed of 50 or 60 km when going through any town, even if the speed limit is not posted.  I think I was going 90 or 100.   I did slow down through the next towns.

The worst section of road was about a 10-20 km section of H-09 south of Ivano-Frankivsk.  Very rough shape.  The rest of it was fine.  One oddity was when crossing over the Prut river in Yamna - there were a lot of police and many parked cars along the road.  As we passed the center of Yamna there was a large gathering.  While waiting in traffic T asked a policeman at the side of the road what was going on - there was a demonstration planned that day.  Something about the locals being fed up with the poor road repair and high traffic.  It wasn't much of an issue driving through...on the way to Bukovel, that is.

Bukovel:

Nice resort town.  The mountains there were not tall, but there were some impressively long ski runs.  T was excited to show me the regional style of restaurant - typically round or hexagonal buildings with Carpathian cuisine - I forgot the name.  We drove up to Voda Club, a beach club on a man-made lake.  We passed it and saw someone riding a bike on a zip line.  We had to try!

We pulled up and purchased a couple of tickets, I think 200 or 300 UAH each, and took the plunge.  The setup was 3 sets of zip lines.  Each set was two lines, one above the other, with no "slope" - the cables were level across to a landing on the other side.  The wheels of the bike (rim only - no tire) were on the bottom line and a support post from the back of the bike was attached to the overhead line.  It was a sturdy setup, and we were also in a harness clipped to the overhead line for safety.

The bikes had electrical assist - a button on the right handlebar grip.  The gears were set pretty low, and they forbade me from shifting gears.  All of this was explained to me in Russian, but I got the gist of it from the gestures and them pointing to various parts of the bike.  2 rules - do not try to turn and do not shift gears. 

Off we went.  The first "step" is a bit daunting, not knowing how stable the bike would be and seeing the 20 foot drop below you.  I peddled out, and slowly T reached up to me on her "track".  Soon she passed me and built up a pretty good lead before I realized that the electrical assist was faster than me peddling on the low gear setting.  1/2 way across, when we were above the lake, one of the staff members overtook us on the 3rd track.  He was peddling - probably set to a high gear.  He got to the other side and prepared to assist us when we reached the landing.

We got to the other side, the guy set up the bikes for the return trip, and yelled at me as I tried to shift to a different gear.  This time I got the lead over T by mashing the power button as far as possible.  But about 1/2 way across T overtook me again - I couldn't compete with her power/weight ratio.  Rats.

The return trip was awesome - now that both us was used to the setup and realizing there was nothing to worry about, we enjoyed the view of the mountains and ski slopes.  We reached the starting area, unhooked and took off our harness, and headed back to our car.   

Lunch was at one of the restaurants T wanted me to try.  We had rabbit veriniki, fried mushrooms and borscht.  My first borscht!  It was pretty good, but T said there was better elsewhere. Especially hers, made with roasted beets and pineapples.  I have a doubt about that, but didn't mention that to her.  We shall see (in the future - apparently borscht takes a while to prepare).

We stopped at a few hotels to see what the rooms were like and check the room rates for this winter.  It was too early to get a confirmed rate - seems they set the prices in the fall for the ski season.  They provided some estimates - about $200 - $300/night for the rooms at slopeside hotels, $100/night for rooms at hotels a few hundred km away.  Perhaps we'll return this winter and stay in one of those places.

Local Yokels:

Remember Yamna?  Well, at around 5 PM we left Bukovel to head back to Lviv.  Approaching Yamna, there were a line of cars stopped with their engines off.  And more police hanging around.  T asked one of them what was happening.  The gathering of people we saw in the morning were demonstrators.  They camped the bridge over the Prut river, preventing any traffic from passing.  This made T livid!  A little at the police, for not doing anything about it, but mostly at the demonstrators.  She thought the road blockage was stupid - it prevented honest people (truck drivers) from earning their living and interrupted tourists like us.  She stated they should get out of the way and squat in front of the mayor's house if they wanted the local government to do something about the roads.

After waiting a bit, and finding out from the Police that the demonstration and road block would go on until sunset (about 9PM), I decided to do a little bit of back-roads driving with the aid of Google Maps.

First, it was surprising that Google maps had the local backroads charted.  Second, the local backroads were actually cow paths.  Unpaved, with deep wheel ruts.  This caused our car to bottom out now and again as we drove through.

At one part of the road we had to go uphill a bit.  On an uneven dirt road with small and large rocks.  A local mom and her little girl looked worried as I gunned the engine and spewed rocks.  I stopped to let them walk by and get a good way down the road before I resumed.  With some loud clunks of rocks hitting the undercarriage, we made it to the top.  Barely. 

We navigated our way to the other side of the hill, where google maps showed a bridge across the river to rejoin H-09.  At the bottom of the hill --- 4 cars waiting to cross the small bridge, where, you guessed it, more demonstrators were squatting.   Rats.

We parked the car, got out, and T located the head of the small splinter group.  She argued with him until he relented a little by telling her that we could go back, talk to the police about an urgent need to catch a train, and the police would escort us past the blockade.  T explained all this to me, but I broke the bad news:  there was no way the car could go back up the hill we descended.  We had a hard time going up the hill on the other side - this side the hill was just as steep and longer/taller. 

I settled T down by staying calm and getting out some food and wine we packed earlier.  I set up a little picnic right in the middle of the protesters, on the other side of the bridge.  They kept looking at us and wondering what we were about, but I just smiled and distracted T from thinking about the demonstration.

About an hour later the splinter group decided to stop guarding the bridge and set up their blockade on the main road.  T and I were relieved - we got in our car and headed our way back...almost.  At the other side of the bridge the demonstrators made the cars turn right - back toward the center of Yamna and the main blockade.  I put on the left turn signal and pointed the car left.  The demonstrators blocked my car and one of them approached the driver side door to talk to me.

I think he was trying to tell me what he and his group were doing, why the demonstration was just and proper, the grievances they had, etc.  I smiled and said "Ya Americanich.  Menya zovut Steve.  Ya gavaru pa russki ni ochen horosho.  Kaktori seychas chas.  Gdye Andreskyiy ulitsa."

He looked at me, and then back to the guys in his group, said a few things, and tried to talk to me again, in Russian.  At this point T said a few things to him, and then another guy from the group pulled him back and motioned for us to pass.  I said "spasibo" or "dakuyu" or both, and we got past the roadblock.

I asked T what she said to him.  She said she told him that she was trying to show me how great Ukraine was, that he and his friends were making Ukraine look bad, and that he was embarrassing her in front of me.  She was fired up!  I calmed her down again and pointed to something positive - the road ahead of us was clear.  The demonstration cleared up what would have been rush hour traffic.   

In the waning hours we noticed several old women waking along the side of the road here and there - babushkas.  T made me laugh when she said the babushkas were so small.  She was amazed how short some of the women were.  Apparently eastern Ukraine has taller babushkas. 

At the next gas station I pulled over to let T drive, at her insistence.  She was concerned the long day made me too tired to drive, and she was right.  We got some drinks - coffee for her and some orange juice for me, and she drove us back to Lviv.  After dropping off the car at the airport and getting an Uber back to our apartment, it was past midnight. 

An interesting and fun-filled day.


Next:  Train to Kyiv and BBQ at T's sister's place.

[ML]

gday steve

mate , i can say only you two know if it is right or not , time spent together does not always let you ''know ''your partners true self

people are adept at hiding parts of themselves if they want or need to to gain others approval in many subtle ways

years ago i got married after an 18 month engagement and 4 years of living with my partner at that time [now ex wife ]

i wanted to be sure it was right , se we took our time, however after 18 years i found she was not the person i though i had known by her actions and it was surprising how she had almost lead a double life , in secret and betrayed my trust

small things at times i ignored and did not pick up on later became timelines  where i had been betrayed badly  which later revealed themselves to their fullest extent

we dont always know people like we think we do , but we do know  ourselves and what values we have , and what we need to be happy if we do enough self discovery

when i met my now wife we very quickly discovered a strong bond and it just grew very intense very quickly , almost beyond belief to be honest when i look back ..
like you we communicated for several months before i travelled to meet her , like your story there are similarities , but some differences , but mostly the bond of trust and attraction was strong between us and we both felt that intrinsically

hard to explain that to ''others '' but i trusted my gut instinct and my experience with her over our short relationship time with a lot of reflection on the choices i could take

 we got engaged on my first trip after 3 weeks together now  nearly 9 years on and we are still strong and have grown together in ways i could not have imagined back then , !!and im very glad i trusted my own judgements as my wife has enriched my life so much for the better , we both are not perfect and we have had differences over that time , often over very small things that have escalated funny enough  , but they have bonded us even more and the trust and commitment has grown ever more

back then friends , family cautioned me that i might get hurt emotionaly and financialy !!    question i  asked them is what is the difference from my prior long term relationship and divorce ??  in the end you just have to trust your judgements and take a risk or not , make achoice or not and then be the best person you can be to make it work !! as nothing is gauranteed in this life

my wife is strong , independent , has high moral values , works hard at anything she puts her mind to achieve, is very direct in her views or opinions and does not suffer fools gladly , she is intense ,soft , compassionate , caring and kind  loves deeply and is incredibly loyal !! and can be as determined as she is stubborn 

in my experience this is not for every one and certainly needs a high level of trust and preparedness to be challenged by another strong person in many ways if you are to succeed

you wont be a knight  saving some poor girl in distress thats for sure 



you cant change others , and you cant control others , all you can reasonably do is be your best & make if difficult for them to not love you and respect you , and to support them to be the best they can be imo

travel your own journey with this adventure and trust yourself first imo

keep us posted as you continue on the adventure ,

best wishes of what life has to offer you both

SX

Wow SX, you became a philosopher !

But nice words.  :-)

[Trenchcoat]

Probably best to let your girl do the talking Steve both with protesters and Hotels. Things will no doubt go better that way. With Hotels they may well charge a higher price if they hear a foreign guy, those prices seemed a bit steep. Check online through Bookings.com or Airbnb, no doubt you can get cheaper than asking in person. I'm guessing it's the same for Hotels like for Taxi's, if you just turn up and ask on the spot the price will nearly always be higher but if you book in advance the rate is way better.

[SteveInBoston]

Trip Finale - Kyiv

The last post to finish this trip report

June 9 - Train to Kyiv

I want to point out the apartment I stayed in in Lviv.   Close to everything, large apartment, friendly owner and very affordable.  Just watch out for the wanky stairs, especially at night.  Owner is Ірина Кубай, her place is listed in Airbnb as "Cozy 2 rooms apartment in city centre".  190 USD total for 5 nights/6 days.   

One caveat:  no AC.  Seems most traditional apartments in Lviv don't have AC.  Could be uncomfortable in July and August.

We took the 11:27 train from Lviv to Kyiv.  We stopped at a Lviv Croissants store on the way to the train station - just for me to actually try something from there even though we talked about it every time we passed by the shop on our way to other restaurants and stores.  Pretty good chocolate croissant.

The train was soviet style - cabins instead of open seats.  T purchased 2 first class seats, which meant 4 people per cabin.  At first we had an issue because my 26" roll-along hard-side luggage did not fit.  Then T noticed the people in the next cabin lowered the top bunk and used it as a platform for their luggage.  Problem solved (the first class and second class cabins are the same - a 4 bunk room with the bunks folded.  In second class 6 people are assigned to each cabin).

About an hour in on our scheduled 5 1/2 hour trip I climbed on the top bunk and took a nap, with my feet raised over my luggage.  One of the other passengers, a man, did the same but didn't have the luggage to deal with.  T stretched out and took a nap on the bench seat, and the 4th person - an older woman, read a book on her phone.   

About 4 hours later the train stopped - the engine gave out. We had about a 90 minute delay while they motored in another engine to take the train the rest of the way to Kyiv.

We arrived at around 6:30 PM in Kyiv.  We took an uber to the A-Loft hotel, which was pretty central to everything downtown (it is on Esplanadna Street, pretty close to the soccer stadium).  We checked in and left our luggage with the service desk because we were late to a BBQ party at T's sister's house.  We took the same Uber to N's place, which was south of the city.  T could not provide exact directions to the house, so she had the Uber pull over at a nearby restaurant. 

Enter Sasha!  Sasha is N's husband, who drove up next to us.  We left the uber and Sasha drove us to the house, which was down a few winding streets in a residential area.  Very colorful guy, and very friendly.  It was his birthday (hence the BBQ) and he already had a few drinks.  He even spoke some english - he worked security detail for a British company for a couple of years.

I met N again (one kiss on the cheek), and Sasha fired up the grill again and BBQ'd some meat - pork and chicken chunks on spits. I met some of Sasha's friends, they congratulated us on our engagement, and had a great evening eating and drinking.  I also met one of T's nephews - the other one was away at a friend's house. 

One very remarkable thing - N has a dog named Leika (possibly a miniature pincher mix, medium size, about 30-35 pounds).  She was a stray they adopted, which I later found out is unusual in Ukraine (people go for pure breeds).  They also adopted a kitten, maybe 4 weeks old?  Their dog, Leika, started lactating when they brought the kitten home.  She has been breastfeeding the kitten ever since (this all happened one week before my trip).  Very cool dog.

Just after sundown everyone started leaving and N drove us back to the hotel.  We claimed our luggage from the front desk, went to our room and retired for the evening.


June 10 - Kyiv

Nothing really remarkable.  We went out for lunch and dinner, and went to a few shops on Khreschatyk Street.  T purchase a few outfits at a new designer discount store, and I got to play the boyfriend-waiting-outside-the-dressing-room role.


June 11 - Return Flight

A-Loft hotel - a nice, western style hotel at a great location, nice rooms, reasonable price (I think $105/night?)  Nothing great and nothing bad.  As I age I prefer Airbnb or other apartment/house rentals over hotels.  I would have stayed at another Airbnb place, but a hotel seemed more convenient for my last two days in Ukraine.

We checked out and we took an Uber to the airport.  T went with me to keep me company and say farewell.  It was sad but not tearful, mainly because we made plans to meet again soon, at the end of August.  T has a group of friends who rented a 4-berth sailboat in Greece.  They had room for more and invited me to join.  So, on the last week of August, I will meet T in Greece and we are going sailing around the islands for one week.  Then we are going to spend an additional week exploring Peloponnese.

I took Swiss Air on the return leg, connecting in Zurich.  The plane experience wind shear during landing and had to abort and circle around.  First time I experienced something like that - it was a bit scary.  The second attempt was much better and we landed without any issues. 

Zurich has a US passport control section for US bound flights.  I had to hurry because my inbound flight was late, but I was quickly processed - a couple of basic questions about where I went and how long I stayed there.

The Customs and Immigration control at Boston took longer to clear.  It was annoying that I had to go through immigration/passport control again.  I wondered what was the point of passport control at Zurich if I had to go through the same thing again in Boston?  I can understand having separate customs control, but a second immigration/passport control?

Another annoying thing was the customs form I had to fill out on the flight from Zurich to Boston.  It is the old customs form, which makes you list out all purchases and declare if you have any food (I was bringing back Lviv chocolates as gifts).  In Boston, they made me go through an electronic customs declaration kiosk.  That system only makes you declare items if the total value is more than XX ($400?) and asks if you have certain foods like meat, dairy, fruits and vegetables.  They need to eliminate the old paper forms which are outdated (non-produce processed foods are not controlled, I believe). 


Well, that is the end of my trip.  Successful, fun, and the start of another adventure - the K-1 visa process!

Let me know if there are any questions about the hotels, restaurants or other things I experienced on my trip.  If you need advice on girls...I can share what worked for me but I am far from an expert.

Cheers.

[krimster2]

good deal congrats!!!
but the adventure is only just beginning for you
any idea of K1 visa waiting times these days?

[SteveInBoston]

Hi Krim,

The USCIS website lists the processing time as 5 - 7 months at the California center (it seems all K-1 visas are process through there now rather than the closest regional center).

Visajourney forecasted my NOA2 to be around the first week of January.

[ML]

Steve, thanks for sharing your trip report.
Also nice to see that some can still write fairly well in English; a dying skill.

[Jumper]

Nice trip report,thanks.


Congratulations!


So you'll soon be in the Peloponnese,
I lived there  in a village a few years, you'll have a great time.
If you stray from the more touristy areas you'll think you are in the 1920's,  and that's actually pretty cool in most ways. 

Wish you continued success!