FSU women

Hi guys!

I was wondering if women from different countries in the FSU differ very much, culturally or in any other ways. I am not really talking about the difference in urban vs rural (though maybe a little).

For example, are moldvian girls different than ukrainian or kazakhstan girls? Are they different than RW? Maybe I am asking the wrong question, because I know that there are different ethnicities within each country.

I ask this becuase I know a moldvian girl (she is the reason why I am on this board...), who has been living in the US for about 5 yrs with her family. When anyone asks her she says she is russian (no one here knows where moldova is), and she also says that these countries all the same.

I doubt that many of you guys can answer me unless you have traveled to atleast more than one of these countries. I need to here from the RW on this board...and guys with experience...

Could anyone reccomend a board full of RW thats not in russian?

[Albert]

In my opinion, there is no difference between women in what are now Russia and Ukraine.

However, there is a big difference between Russian and Ukrainian women and the native women in the Baltic countries which were part of the FSU.  The native women in the Baltic countries (not the Russian women who just happen to live there) are not nearly as warm (in both sexual and non-sexual ways) as are Russian and Ukrainian women.

By baltic you mean the nothern countries?

I just want to know where the 'russian' women end and the 'american' women begin

[Admin]

By baltic you mean the nothern countries?

I just want to know where the 'russian' women end and the 'american' women begin

Baltics are the (now) independent countries of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania.

They were never very well-integrated into the Soviet Union, and with the fall of communism, they broke free with some vigor.

Having said that, just like in ALL the Former Soviet Union countries, there are displaced ethnic Russians who share a common history and gene pool.

With due respect to the superiority complex of several RW members from Moscow - anyone who claims their roots to Mother Russia is going to share a common culture and traditions.

One important point to make, however, is that there are very few generalities that can be legitimately made about women from Russia or Ukraine or anywhere else. Just like there is enormous variability in women (and men) living in the US - so is there in women from the FSU.

- Dan

[KenC]

My understanding is that the Baltics were "awarded" to Russia post WWII and that there was quite a bit of resentment towards Russia by the Baltic people.  They always had closer ties with Germany.  One of the countries just recently errected a monument to the German solders that died in WWII.  This caused quite a hub bub in Russia.  What most Americans do not realize is that Russians still hold substantial hatred for Germany because of the amount of Russian lives lost in WWII.  For the tremendous amount of Russians killed in WWII, I cannot blame them.

KenC

[Photo Guy]

I just finished a fascinating book called 'Soviet Women: Walking the Tightrope' by Francine du Plessix Gray (Doubleday, 1990)

The book is 15 years old, but can give you insight into the minds of a variety of women in the FSU. Their minds vary as much as RWD's Elen, Donna, and Mischief. Many different interviews are presented.
There were some differences between opinions in Moscow, Irkutsk, and Georgia.

The 'Tightrope' turned out to be the same tightrope walked by women in the US. Women in the FSU are shown to be grappling with both career and family life. It's an issue AW can relate to, but imagine juggling both career and family in an atmosphere of economic instability and state day care centers that can't be trusted. Add to the mix, the low self-esteem of Soviet men and the male power structure's dim view of women in high positions. Male chauvinism is shown to be  oppressive by the author - more severe than in the West. Remarks like: 'Her article was excellent, as though written by a man.'  

I enjoyed reading the thoughts of many women from the FSU.
For example - remarks about why these women dress up, in contrast to AW. Remarks about Soviet men, having children, etc.

I found an excellent copy of a paperback at Amazon.com
for under $10      Doug

[Elen]

Mostly defferences are in religion - women from muslim nationalities of the FSU are not the same to Christian ones ( even if they are not religion at all)

And with due respect to the inferiority complex of several members from this board who see what there is not at all in posts of several RW members from Moscow Ukrainians are considered like greedy nation among FSU:P  

 

[Photo Guy]

Is it true that in Russia, 'greed' is associated with just about ANY form of capitalism? For example if someone wants to open a store that sells furniture, they are looked upon as being 'greedy'? Where do you draw the line between 'greed' and just making a living selling something?

[Elen]

My understanding is that the Baltics were "awarded" to Russia post WWII and that there was quite a bit of resentment towards Russia by the Baltic people.

For better understanding let read what documents they have signed willingly by themselves before the WWII when Germans were panting into back of their heads[/size][/font]

[Admin]

My understanding is that the Baltics were "awarded" to Russia post WWII and that there was quite a bit of resentment towards Russia by the Baltic people. They always had closer ties with Germany. One of the countries just recently errected a monument to the German solders that died in WWII. This caused quite a hub bub in Russia. What most Americans do not realize is that Russians still hold substantial hatred for Germany because of the amount of Russian lives lost in WWII. For the tremendous amount of Russians killed in WWII, I cannot blame them.

KenC

It seems Estonia is more aligned with Scandinavia - especially Finland which is nearby. Lithuania aligns with Poland - with whom it shares a long border. And Latvia remains somewhat closely aligned with Russia.

Interesting to see that Lithuania and Poland create a land barrier that separates the Russian oblast containing Kaliningrad from the main land mass of Russia - no doubt to provide Russian access to the Baltic Sea and the open oceans.

- Dan

[KenC]

Photo,

You wrote:

The 'Tightrope' turned out to be the same tightrope walked by women in the US. Women in the FSU are shown to be grappling with both career and family life. It's an issue AW can relate to, but imagine juggling both career and family in an atmosphere of economic instability and state day care centers that can't be trusted. Add to the mix, the low self-esteem of Soviet men and the male power structure's dim view of women in high positions. Male chauvinism is shown to be oppressive by the author - more severe than in the West. Remarks like: 'Her article was excellent, as though written by a man.'

I enjoyed reading the thoughts of many women from the FSU.
For example - remarks about why these women dress up, in contrast to AW.

 The best explanation I have read regarding this was that RW were forced into manly jobs during WWII and because of communism.  Because they were forced, they struggled dearly to hold on to their femininity.  After they would finish their work for the day, the RW would run home and get all dressed up in their most feminine attire with full make up and such.  Where as AW "marched" directly toward their own liberating "manhood".  It was a clear choice to pick carreers over family responsibilities.

Day care centers have been around in Russia a lot longer than here.  It is not uncommon for very young children to be raised by their Grandparents while the Moms and Dads both continue to work. 

KenC

[Photo Guy]

KenC,
The author reaches a different conclusion about their dressing up.
Check out the book. It's good reading. After reading it, I can understand why moms would prefer grandparents over state institutions. The societal roles that women played (back in '89) were
a real state of change, changing from the assexual 'comrad', to both productive employees AND the matriarchal family leader. The FSU needed and promoted increased birth rates. Women were encouraged to become 'dynamos' and men had shattered egos. Women maintained their egos through leadership in the home.
I've read elsewhere that matriarchal society is a Ukrainian tradition.
I'm not sure how many centuries back that goes.

[Elen]

The best explanation I have read regarding this was that RW were forced into manly jobs during WWII and because of communism.  Because they were forced, they struggled dearly to hold on to their femininity

The odd explanation I ever heard:? To my mind if America losted the same number of males' population in various  cataclysms as Russia(FSU) have done during past two centures then your women would be forced to look more feminy amd to be more "kind" for to catch an attention of remainder males[/size][/font][/b]

[KenC]

Elen wrote:

To my mind if America losted the same number of males' population in various  cataclysms as Russia(FSU) have done during past two centures then your women would be forced to look more feminy amd to be more "kind" for to catch an attention of remainder males

I have heard that too, Elen.  The explanation I got was that not only is the percentage of males lower, but if you consider only the number of males that can afford to have a wife/GF, then the percentage is very small.  The competition is fierce.

KenC


[/size][/font][/b]

[Photo Guy]

That's a good point, Elen.  After WWII, an available healthy living man was probably a rare prize. That would have started a tradition of treating men as thought they are very needed and desired. And then again with Afghanistan. Interesting. Men are placed on a pedestal, while women have control of the family, while men control the work force and institutions. I'm just thinking about this out loud.

[Elen]

That was not only after WWII PhotoGuy - We had the same for centures even "democratisation" has cut a poplation of decent candidats for husband's role - males appeared more weak to changes than females - more suicides, more escaping into drunk from problems and dropping of average life time to 58 ages - that's all we have  among males:? now

Ah Yeah I forgot also those who were killed in bandit fights for property ( Yep If only you could see a cemetery in Tolyaty for example - our capital of car industry - those long rows with newmade headstones with signs marked ages :? The majority were not older even than 30)

( and leave alone those who became spados in their rush for big money)

[Bruno]

...
For example, are moldvian girls different than ukrainian or kazakhstan girls? Are they different than RW? Maybe I am asking the wrong question, because I know that there are different ethnicities within each country.
...
I ask this becuase I know a moldvian girl (she is the reason why I am on this board...), who has been living in the US for about 5 yrs with her family. When anyone asks her she says she is russian (no one here knows where moldova is), and she also says that these countries all the same.

Hello EVU, welcome here...

Moldova is enough different that the rest of FSU...

First, about religion... you have more catholic in Moldava... FSU is usually more orthodox...

Second, the language... it is a roman language... very near of italian... in reality, moldova is more like roumania... if you are able to count in Italian, you can count in Moldova...

About ethnic, woman from Moldova are more the italian style that the slavic style... and the character follow... more hot... but more tornado when they are not happy...

I have visit Moldova, Russia and Ukraine... the mother of my first russian wife was from Moldova... the father of my last misluck was from Moldova... Each time, the contact was more easy and more friendly with Moldovan people... and they smile more that the russian ( slavic )...

About Ukraine and Moldova, difficult to compare... Ukrainian from the regio of Luv are more like Moldovan ( catholic, european spirit )... these from the other side are more like russian ( orthodox, russian spirit )...

 

[Elen]

There are more than 200 nations in FSU but when talks are started about prostitution in Moscow they always are going round girls from Moldova and Ukraine ( not from Baltic republics which we "love" such badly , not from Georgia or Asian republics where things are mucn more bad but exactly from Moldova and Ukraine)

Let try to see in that statistic  not only "the superiority complex of several RW members from Moscow":P

[andrewfi]

My understanding is that the Baltics were "awarded" to Russia post WWII and that there was quite a bit of resentment towards Russia by the Baltic people.

For better understanding let read what documents they have signed willingly by themselves before the WWII when Germans were panting into back of their heads[/size][/font]
[/quote]
 

 

Willingly?

By whom?

[Elen]

By your( i mean their) Senat or how you call it (Seym?)

[Bruno]

Majority of the girls in sex business are Russians - 83%, 11% - Estonians, 6% - other nationalities (from Finland, Byelorussia, Ukraine, Poland, Armenia, Kazakhstan, and also Jew, Gypsy and other nationalities)

http://www.ac-company.org/maps_mobility/estonia_special.html

[andrewfi]

Elen, I am not Estonian, but I would counsel you to do some reading. It is unlikely that one could accurately describe any documents of association, or treaties signed between Estonia and Russia in the period following the Great War and the 1990's as being signed willingly.

A treaty was signed between Russia and Germany, prior to the German invasion of Russia that awarded the Baltics to Russia. Estonia was not party to that agreement.

It is true that an Estonian puppet governemnt did sign a treaty, but the government was not representative of the people and did not carry their mandate. It was, however the fiction that Russia used in its annexation of the country. The situation vis a vis Germany and Russia in WW2 is of course complicated, just as it was in Finland. As you may, or may not know, Estonians fought in both Russian and German armed forces. The degree of coercion used, by both sides, is still a subject of debate in the region. Compromise for survival is often not a pretty thing.

[Elen]

The situation in Moscow is the same that several big city...

 the same but it does not exaplain such prevalence of the said nations in that business.

 

to Andrew

It is true that an Estonian puppet governemnt did sign a treaty, but the government was not representative of the people and did not carry their mandate.

You see I don't know what other documents could be seen like a will of the country except those which were signed by their own government when nodody hold a gun near their forehead.  And by the way the said document was registrated in the word organisation ( I forgot its name but I'll find it for you with a number of document ) which carried such business in Europe and there was no claims about its illegacy in those time. That's politic - weak states had to make their choice in hard time. Latvia has done its and there is nobody others to blame after.

As for people in Latvia then of course as Latvia always stayed bow-legged between German and Russia then there were people who were not happy about that But there were a lot who were  Just let go and see chronics from those times with people greeting Red Army at streets

just as it was in Finland

Finland made their own choice and stayed independed.
 

Compromise for survival is often not a pretty thing

Exactly but why now to call that compromise as "occupation"?

 

.


 

 

 

There are more than 200 nations in FSU but when talks are started about prostitution in Moscow they always are going round girls from Moldova and Ukraine ( not from Baltic republics which we "love" such badly , not from Georgia or Asian republics where things are mucn more bad but exactly from Moldova and Ukraine)

Let try to see in that statistic  not only "the superiority complex of several RW members from Moscow":P

Thats the other thing that bothers me too...

Are the economies really that much different that there are a lot of prostitutes from some of these other countries? Why do you say its from these countries? Is it because of organized traffickers?

[PeeWee]

A growing problem, for especially Ukraine, is sex slavery. Over 100,000 Ukraine women were inticed into it by the Red Mafia. They are now servicing up to 7 to 10 men a day in the clubs in places such as Club Hawaii in the Czech Republic with no hope of escape. It is a huge problem and growing worse. Senator Hillary Clinton spoke about it about a year ago and wondered what the US could do to help solve this problem.

I just went back and looked at my notes on the subject, I spoke of it in my last book, so I've done the researh on the subject, the number of women is 1 million and not 100,000 sex slaves.

 

PeeWee