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Author Topic: Trippin in St Pete  (Read 372457 times)

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Offline BillyB

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Re: Trippin in St Pete
« Reply #150 on: April 14, 2007, 12:52:39 AM »
Kvinna,

If you type "World sex guide" in google, you will see a forum of men who are real sex tourists. While this forum, RWD, may have 60 members online at any time with just over 2000 menmbers, that forum will have 600 members online at any time and they have nearly 173,000 members. You will find men talking about their trip reports in detail and showing pics of their dicks and cum on FSU women they had sex with. Plenty of guys there that will fill your scam list. Pics used to be seen by non-members  but it seems one has to be a member now. Maybe you and the girls can sign up there and clean up that forum. The only problem is that sex tourists will not show their faces and you must identify the men by their penises.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Online 2tallbill

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Bull Dermo!!! (sh*t)
« Reply #151 on: April 14, 2007, 01:06:03 AM »
Bull Sh*t

I went to Russia on short notice. I talked with M and we decided to meet. So I did not plan this trip far in advance although I talked with her about meeting for quite some time.

I went to see her WOVO which means to write one and visit one.

I was only planning to meet this one woman!

I did not plan to meet others!

Things did not work out with me and

If I wanted to have sex, I had the opportunity with a married woman, but as soon as I found out that she was married I sent her away in a taxi!

You write many things about me that were not my plan at all

There are a number of lies posted in the antedate forum where they said I told in many letters about things like my ex-wife, my life story etc. I did not send any other women in St Pete these letters so that is false!

I was written about by a woman who claims these things and they are not true. Read the report! Don’t parse little segments of it. I told the truth in every instance and I am not a sex tourist! This is a fact.

You have made your forum about bad men, married men, porno men and brutes.
Now you include a man who had no interest before or after to seek women for only sex. You describe me as a sex tourist who failed to be a sex tourist.  Well can't you define every man who visits Russia as a potential sex tourist who was a failure? Unless he was successful? Then he would be a sex tourist in fact?

You could actually do good with your forum and expose those who really harm women. Those slim balls that cheat on their wives and go to Russia and do these things.

But no, you are angry about some past things and decide to lay these past things on my lap.

I do not know the events that happened that make you hate me. I am not responsible for it however.


Bill
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

Online 2tallbill

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Re: Trippin in St Pete
« Reply #152 on: April 14, 2007, 01:12:02 AM »
some how I made a double post

Who is the mod on this forum. I want to remove some of the pictures on this thread.

Thanks,

Bill
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

Offline Jooky

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Re: Trippin in St Pete
« Reply #153 on: April 14, 2007, 01:21:26 AM »
Kvinna, take heed of what Billy wrote:

You have many times, on forums, complained about anti-scam sites who unjustly list FSU women for minor reasons or without evidence but it seems you and the ladies at anti-date are capable of doing what you abhor. It's hypocrisy and it hurts the credibility of your anti-scam list to start confusing the innocent with the guilty.

He is absolutely right.

You often criticize anti-scam sites for posting photos and personal letters of accused scammers without verification. I agree with you. You turn around and do the same to men.

You criticize people like 'Honest Jim' for being a self proclaimed judge of women. I agree with you. Yet you are self-proclaimed judge over men who you claim 'disrespect' Russian women.

You condemn men who interfere with the private lives of their pen pals by delivering flowers as a test and hire investigators. Yet you mess with the private lives of men who you do not know.

You do exactly what you condemn on your own site. You are no better than your enemy.

Tall Bill is condemned for posting photos and relating personal experiences in a public forum. He did so with the intention of helping others.

What do you do? You take photos and letters that were sent in private and you post them in public. Do the women on anti-date not relate personal and private experiences? Do these men give you consent to post their photos and letters? I already know the answers to all this. Now, you do so with the intention of helping others as well, but it is no different or better than what Bill did by writing his trip report.

Bill is condemned for going on a trip to Russia 'just for fun'. Although this is clearly not true, tell me where is it declared that a man can visit Russia only with serious intentions to find a wife? There are many reasons to visit Russia. If a man wants to take a tour and he meets women along the way, what is wrong with that as long as he is not deceptive?

What is a 'sex tourist'?

Men travel to Russia for many reasons. Some fly across the world for a blind date with an unknown woman they plan to marry. Some hook up with easy girls and prostitutes. Some deceive women in order to have sex.

For me only the deception is wrong. Consensual sex between adult men and women is their own damn business. Like Canadian Cowboy says, it takes two to tango. If a woman decides to drop her panties for a man that she has known for one day, that is her decision.

A man that decieves a woman is wrong. However, a woman who expects something in return for sex, be it gifts or the promise to marry is also wrong.

Sure there is a seedy side to this 'business'. Tall Bill is not a part of it. Kvinna, why do you focus all your energy on this seedy side? If you insist on doing so, target the right sites as BillyB says instead of regular nice guys like Tall Bill. Tackle that World Sex Guide. You will have your hands full.


Online 2tallbill

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Re: Trippin in St Pete
« Reply #154 on: April 14, 2007, 01:45:51 AM »
Jooky,

I read your trip report before I ever went on my first trip to the FSU

I wrote my trip report because of guys like you.

Since I have read so many reports like yours and others I felt obligated to write a report
to tell others my thoughts about and perceptions.

But this antidate forum just twists everything or just makes up out of
thin air what I wrote.

Take care,



Bill

I am in the chat if you are still online
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

Offline Kvinna

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Re: Trippin in St Pete
« Reply #155 on: April 14, 2007, 01:52:24 AM »
Kvinna, take heed of what Billy wrote:
You have many times, on forums, complained about anti-scam sites who unjustly list FSU women for minor reasons or without evidence but it seems you and the ladies at anti-date are capable of doing what you abhor. It's hypocrisy and it hurts the credibility of your anti-scam list to start confusing the innocent with the guilty.
He is absolutely right.
You often criticize anti-scam sites for posting photos and personal letters of accused scammers without verification. I agree with you. You turn around and do the same to men.
You criticize people like 'Honest Jim' for being a self proclaimed judge of women. I agree with you. Yet you are self-proclaimed judge over men who you claim 'disrespect' Russian women.
You condemn men who interfere with the private lives of their pen pals by delivering flowers as a test and hire investigators. Yet you mess with the private lives of men who you do not know.
You do exactly what you condemn on your own site. You are no better than your enemy.
Tall Bill is condemned for posting photos and relating personal experiences in a public forum. He did so with the intention of helping others.
What do you do? You take photos and letters that were sent in private and you post them in public. Do the women on anti-date not relate personal and private experiences? Do these men give you consent to post their photos and letters? I already know the answers to all this. Now, you do so with the intention of helping others as well, but it is no different or better than what Bill did by writing his trip report.
Bill is condemned for going on a trip to Russia 'just for fun'. Although this is clearly not true, tell me where is it declared that a man can visit Russia only with serious intentions to find a wife? There are many reasons to visit Russia. If a man wants to take a tour and he meets women along the way, what is wrong with that as long as he is not deceptive?
What is a 'sex tourist'?
Men travel to Russia for many reasons. Some fly across the world for a blind date with an unknown woman they plan to marry. Some hook up with easy girls and prostitutes. Some deceive women in order to have sex.
For me only the deception is wrong. Consensual sex between adult men and women is their own damn business. Like Canadian Cowboy says, it takes two to tango. If a woman decides to drop her panties for a man that she has known for one day, that is her decision.
A man that decieves a woman is wrong. However, a woman who expects something in return for sex, be it gifts or the promise to marry is also wrong.
Sure there is a seedy side to this 'business'. Tall Bill is not a part of it. Kvinna, why do you focus all your energy on this seedy side? If you insist on doing so, target the right sites as BillyB says instead of regular nice guys like Tall Bill. Tackle that World Sex Guide. You will have your hands full.
well well well, what the holy anger is here
We interfer into your private life? and what you did all this time? when we asked americans guys on RWG in 2003 if that is right to publish private female letters, what answer we got? it is american tradition
so now when we started to follow your tradition you don't like your own remedy?
you don't like to illuminate our board, but don't care if russian gilrs likes your confession about them in trip-reports or don't. You never cared about consequences of your "stories", "confenbssion" and so on
after official sites of Embassies start warning their citizens against russian women
we cannot be tolerant toward such writes as Jim and Bill
How can we stop you? only with your remedy. you have gotten what you spreaded
hypocrisy you said, well, let's it be hypocrisy. We mostly used to be labeled by you, westerners

PS. Once again I would warn even you BillyB against person who cannot keep his tongue behind his teeth. If you like to deal with such ppl it is your business, but I have to warn you that someday he could devulgue your story on some board only for fun
PPS. Bruno after this story seems have troubles with his girlfriend about that he wrote on antidate board. It means that now we touch very serious problem
Thank to all

When they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out; I was not a trade unionist. When they came for the Jews, I didn’t speak up, because I wasn't a Jew. When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out.

Offline Jooky

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Re: Trippin in St Pete
« Reply #156 on: April 14, 2007, 02:22:55 AM »
Ridiculous.

Nobody said it was an 'american tradition' to publish private female letters. Pure bull*snip*.

What happened on the RWG in the past is quite simple:

Some men posted 'private' scammer letters. Those are not true private correspondences. They are form letters, usually written by a man and mass mailed to suckers. Posting these types of letters helps both men and women.

A few men posted portions of true private letters asking for opinions. These actions were not condoned by the RWG regulars. Every time I remember this happening, several posters would immediately act telling the poster that it is disrespectful for people to post private letters and information.

When you say 'you have gotten what you spreaded', who is that directed to? Me? You know very well that I am against 'Honest Jim', anti-scam sites, private investigations and the direct interference of people's private lives. This is why it is disheartening to see you engage in the same activities you claim to deplore.

If Russia is getting a bad reputation for being a mecca for so called sex tourists, who do you blame? Don't you think part of the blame falls on the women who readily sleep with any unattractive man that comes along with a wallet full of cash?

Let me ask you a simple question.
Your site encourages women to share personal information of the men they meet.
Why do you find it wrong when a man does the same?
« Last Edit: April 14, 2007, 02:32:27 AM by Jooky »

Offline BC

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Re: Trippin in St Pete
« Reply #157 on: April 14, 2007, 02:44:01 AM »
I think I can see a little 'truth' from both sides.

Some might forget (or not even realize) that an internet forum is indeed a publication, open for anyone to peruse and thanks to Google and other search engines easily accessable.  Unless permission has been given to publish information that can clearly identify a person, such as picture, real names, etc it could be construed as invasion of privacy.  I'm not talking law here, just my 'jist' of what is reasonable.

This doesn't necessarily mean that one cannot post TR's, just be a bit sensitive as to what supplementary information you provide.

Regarding the sex tourist angle, it is indeed a two sided sword.. there are those on both sides that abuse 'marriage minded'.

As we don't see many goodtime girls or professional daters in FSU posting here, nor do we see western guys blatantly chasing the sex angle (closest call is Albert IMHO), seems to prove that there is little to be gained by such folks posting here.

Kvinna,  the real 'bad' guys and girls are not here or on your board..  they obviously have other things to do and other places to go.

I think what might be happening is that your audience (and some here also) are trying to tackle folks that are more 'accessible' and not the true troublemakers that are impossible to find.

Some guys (and gals) may indeed overstep the privacy angle on RW boards, but it does not mean they are sex tourists.

Offline Daveman

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Re: Trippin in St Pete
« Reply #158 on: April 14, 2007, 03:03:11 AM »

Kvinna,  the real 'bad' guys and girls are not here or on your board..  they obviously have other things to do and other places to go.

I think what might be happening is that your audience (and some here also) are trying to tackle folks that are more 'accessible' and not the true troublemakers that are impossible to find.

Some guys (and gals) may indeed overstep the privacy angle on RW boards, but it does not mean they are sex tourists.

This was my impression as well.  It seemed that an example had to be made of *someone* and bill just happened to get nailed to 'make the general point'.  The result of the "We're pissed and we're not going to take it anymore" mentality, but without a true 'offender' to crucify, they found someone who mentions several girls in a TR and nailed him to the cross.

I have no problem understanding their point. I simply see the method of delivery as reprehensible.  If it really is a privacy issue, I am sure a simple letter to Dan explaining the situation and concerns would have been enough - but it's obvious from the writings that privacy is *not* the issue.  I just hate that someone who obviously respected every woman he came in contact with gets nailed as their example when there are real  disrespectful sex idiots out there... and like you say... just not here to be found.

Dave
The duty of a true patriot is to protect his country from its government. -- Thomas Paine

Offline Kvinna

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Re: Trippin in St Pete
« Reply #159 on: April 14, 2007, 03:03:51 AM »
Let me ask you a simple question.
Your site encourages women to share personal information of the men they meet.
Why do you find it wrong when a man does the same?

Lol, Jooky
so as I see you decidу to twist facts and datas
good luck to you, Jooky
When they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out; I was not a trade unionist. When they came for the Jews, I didn’t speak up, because I wasn't a Jew. When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out.

Offline Kvinna

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Re: Trippin in St Pete
« Reply #160 on: April 14, 2007, 03:24:08 AM »
Kvinna,  the real 'bad' guys and girls are not here or on your board..  they obviously have other things to do and other places to go.
I think what might be happening is that your audience (and some here also) are trying to tackle folks that are more 'accessible' and not the true troublemakers that are impossible to find.
Some guys (and gals) may indeed overstep the privacy angle on RW boards, but it does not mean they are sex tourists.

BC seems I really fail with explanation, though I really did my best for this
maybe because you never have been in our shoes, it is not your fault of course
look, any our word can have some consequences, right? otherwhise why there is a lot of ethical Charters for journalists and reporters. If someone think about himself as about reporter or author he should consider any consequences after his opus
and yes online forum is public place, some experts called it the participation journalism
so now, try to analize the role of RWG, RWD, RMP and so on and Antidate and their memebers for creating impression and imiges of each other. You have to know that the professional journalism very offten takes stories and thems and subject from online non-professional source, i.e. forums, blogs and public chats. MOB industry is a hot potatoe for mass-media
I googled a lot of articles in english about Russian women, I saw most western documentaries about Russian women...
So now I can only offer you to be a russian woman for a while (2 weeks) on the Net, and tell us this virtual trip report.


As for bad guys and girl on those two forums. I am sure "bad girls" visit us very offten and some of them take part on antidate too (and we cut them off as soon as recognize them)/ The same with this board. People come to us for information, and we can take resposibility for this or not


PS. How can author explain us those contradictions from his report
http://forum.antidate.org/index.php?showtopic=6484&view=findpost&p=174629
« Last Edit: April 14, 2007, 03:40:19 AM by Kvinna »
When they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out; I was not a trade unionist. When they came for the Jews, I didn’t speak up, because I wasn't a Jew. When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out.

Offline BC

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Re: Trippin in St Pete
« Reply #161 on: April 14, 2007, 03:56:13 AM »
BC seems I really fail with explanation,

Kvinna,

With this post of yours I think you did not fail..

I understand your viewpoint but as you say there is little chance of me fully understanding what a RW's experiences online..

I'm sure though it can be a spooky, kooky place and your site does seem to have some extreme examples..

I took a look at the related thread on your site briefly.  I was not aware Bill was participating to such an extent there and elsewhere.

Oh well that's his business and I'm sure he is in good hands there..

:whew:..




Offline Daveman

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Re: Trippin in St Pete
« Reply #162 on: April 14, 2007, 03:59:11 AM »
So now I can only offer you to be a russian woman for a while (2 weeks) on the Net, and tell us this virtual trip report.


As for bad guys and girl on those two forums. I am sure "bad girls" visit us very offten and some of them take part on antidate too (and we cut them off as soon as recognize them)/ The same with this board. People come to us for information, and we can take resposibility for this or not


Kvinna, I am sure there are many of us who can and do understand the point you are making. There are many things both sides can learn from this.  It is impossible for us to fully understand from a Russian Woman perspective, but we can come close.  Why not take bill off the blacklist, then start a new thread where we can discuss the real important issues here, and all of us learn something from this. 

Everyone on this board advocates quite vocally the "Respect of Russian Women".  But this way you have chosen to make your point will only create animosity with those who really do have the same goals that you have.  I just don't get that.

I took this blacklist issue quite seriously because you are interfering with someone who is sincerely seeking a life partner.  It simply isn't right.  Perhaps it will have no effect on his search for a partner, but that's not the point. It's the principle involved.

Dave
The duty of a true patriot is to protect his country from its government. -- Thomas Paine

Offline jb

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Re: Trippin in St Pete
« Reply #163 on: April 14, 2007, 04:20:37 AM »
If you guys feel so strongly why don't you campaign to have kivinna banned from this forum?  It would at least give her one less outlet for her venom.  Since I'm equally sure she in on every other forum spewing this same sort of hateful anti-man crap she'll still get her message out, just not here.

I, for one would not miss her for a microsecond, she certainly contributes nothing that parallels or adds to this board's agenda.

Petition Dan for relief, report every offensive post to the Moderators, explain why you found the post offensive if it was an out-and-out lie or slanderous.  That's the way you get things done in the real world.

Offline Bruno

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Re: Trippin in St Pete
« Reply #164 on: April 14, 2007, 06:45:05 AM »
PPS. Bruno after this story seems have troubles with his girlfriend about that he wrote on antidate board. It means that now we touch very serious problem

Yes, you are right... touch a very serious problem...

The problem is about how FSU ladies from antidate choose element from some post at other place and organise them in a way who show that the poster is a bad man...

What you are making with the post of Bill is similar to what happen between my girlfriend and me... lately, she have call me a liar on your forum... happily for me, one year ago, i have post what i and she have say on the RWD forum...

Your forum transform normal RW in parano who find evidence in crazy little details... or who fabric evidence from their mind if they cannot find some... by example, a package send by me with a little mistake in the address lead a RW to think that i have other ladies. Seem that some have use too much from the clue bat  :cluebat:

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Re: Trippin in St Pete
« Reply #165 on: April 14, 2007, 07:03:04 AM »
Yes, you are right... touch a very serious problem...

The problem is about how FSU ladies from antidate choose element from some post at other place and organise them in a way who show that the poster is a bad man...

What you are making with the post of Bill is similar to what happen between my girlfriend and me... lately, she have call me a liar on your forum... happily for me, one year ago, i have post what i and she have say on the RWD forum...

Your forum transform normal RW in parano who find evidence in crazy little details... or who fabric evidence from their mind if they cannot find some... by example, a package send by me with a little mistake in the address lead a RW to think that i have other ladies. Seem that some have use too much from the clue bat  :cluebat:

Bruno,

I hope that your problems are NOT serious - and that you are able to overcome them. I also hope Kvinna was not making that announcement with any pleasure. It would be a shame for the relationship you have worked so long and hard to create, to crumble because of some misunderstanding from an internet board post. It is MORE shameful, if some people take delight in seeing (or causing) that relationship to crumble. That would be VERY sad and shameful.

If you guys feel so strongly why don't you campaign to have kivinna banned from this forum?  It would at least give her one less outlet for her venom.  Since I'm equally sure she in on every other forum spewing this same sort of hateful anti-man crap she'll still get her message out, just not here.

I, for one would not miss her for a microsecond, she certainly contributes nothing that parallels or adds to this board's agenda.

Petition Dan for relief, report every offensive post to the Moderators, explain why you found the post offensive if it was an out-and-out lie or slanderous.  That's the way you get things done in the real world.

jb,

As most know, I have been embroiled in a pretty serious campaign to right some wrongs created by an internet do-gooder who claims his motives are to protect guys from scammers and scam agencies. In fact, I recall Antidate's genesis being partly to counter-balance some of the perceived wrongs from this same internet crusader.

I have had some success in working with Kvinna and the ladies at Antidate, and while I agree that they have stepped over the line with their vilification of Bill, I also think they might be persuaded to reconsider based on logic and facts - just as WmGO has called upon them to do.

In my opinion, the fact that Kvinna has posted here means that she is listening. She may come across as recalcitrant - and her comments may be offensive to some - but to mute her would result in a FAR worse situation which has almost no prospect of reconciliation.

For that reason, I think it would be a mistake to ban her. I honestly believe there *is* a common ground that can be reached - albeit one which takes a lot of work to achieve.

- Dan

Offline Haseki Hurem

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Re: Trippin in St Pete
« Reply #166 on: April 14, 2007, 07:04:06 AM »
Bill,
Unfortunately, you've managed to show only the worst of the local life, that is what makes ladies... nervouse.

And the question is: how we can really show, that we are different?
(I better say, part of us is what you described, but part of us is not.)

After reading the local reports the impression is sad...

And the point is (sorry, I don't remember who said this) - one of you asked Kvinna: why the news show only the worst?

The same is with the trip reports - it is the sort of the news. Only the part to attract the best rating goes in...
« Last Edit: April 14, 2007, 12:42:50 PM by Haseki Hurem »

Offline SANDRO43

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Re: Trippin in St Pete
« Reply #167 on: April 14, 2007, 07:04:27 AM »
:offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic:
Sandro,Let me take a guess.  Did your good Dr. Falloppio in his research of human reproduction discover tubes connecting ovaries to the uterus?
The very man.  
Quote
The egotist probably named them after himself.
As well as: Fallopian canal, Fallopian ligament, Fallopian pregnancy, Fallotomy (i.e. division of the Fallopian tubes, not what it might sound at first ;D).
Quote
Instead he could have used his name for the linen sheath, and we would be calling them Falloppians rather than condoms or preservatives.
Marketing and name-branding were not much in evidence in the late 1500s ;).
Quote
Do you also know the source of the Russian term?   What does it preserve?
We, too, use the terms preservativo and profilattico, because they are supposed to protect us from the danger of contracting the mal francioso or mal de Naples, so called because the first cases appeared in Naples during Charles VIII's occupation and were blamed on some of his French mercenaries, who supposedly included veterans of Cristoforo Colombo's expeditions.

The term syphilis was coined by Gerolamo Fracastoro (1478-1553), a doctor-philosopher-poet from Verona who wrote Syphilis sive de morbo gallico and was inspired by the myth of Syphilus, the young shepherd who had offended Apollo and was punished with a terrible disease that covered his whole body with ulcers.
Milan's "Duomo"

Offline LEGAL

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Re: Trippin in St Pete
« Reply #168 on: April 14, 2007, 07:06:17 AM »

http://forum.antidate.org/index.php?showtopic=6484&view=findpost&p=174629

I  have read  it. I think nadezhda31 is woman so called M because she is "yelling"  trying to defend herself. Bill I think you did not loan her enough money. Maybe you should send her more money  :usdeyes:

Olga.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2007, 07:45:20 AM by LEGAL »

Offline Gator

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Re: Trippin in St Pete
« Reply #169 on: April 14, 2007, 07:50:17 AM »
International dating differs dramatically from dating within one’s peer group.  Women are vulnerable. 

My personal example:  The RW who became my fiancée slept with me soon after meeting.  A few meetings later I learned this went against her character.  She confided that she was not ready, yet liked me and trusted me and feared she would lose me if she said “no”.   She had no regrets, but I still felt bad. 

If you have spent a lot of time with some of these women, you will learn that many are indeed sweet, who want to find love and to please her man.  Many men are also looking for love, and would not knowingly deceive the object of their affection.  However, because men and women are not on a level playing field, the few (I hope few) sex predators can take advantage of FSU women. 

Personally I think Anti-date is needed.  However, this episode with Bill does make me question the credibility of Antidate. 

Bill’s case is a good opportunity to take this debate and improve Antidate’s credibility.   What is needed?  A Code of Conduct  (or Ethics) for men is needed to guide Anti-dates’s decision making, to add some rigor, and to help men with good intentions. 

BTW, I usually align myself with JB.  This time, I disagree.  I welcome Kvinna.  Some line of communication is needed.

Offline Jack

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Re: Trippin in St Pete
« Reply #170 on: April 14, 2007, 09:21:13 AM »
Ban Kvinna!   Yea, that's the way to get things resolved.  You don't like what the messenger has to say, just ban them.

Or better yet, Kvinna, we won't ban you but because we think it would help you if you had some time away from RWD, you can come back after you get married.



Kvinna's intentions are, and have been, good.   EVERYONE, makes mistakes.  Kvinna, like many here,  is a strong minded person. 

I'm going to try to take a step back for a few minutes and ask you guys to try to look at the situation through Kvinna's eyes.  Although I, as an American man, could never accurately feel or sense what Kvinna has seen over the last decade, I'm going to take a shot at some of the things that Kvinna and Helen and many other Moscow women could be seeing and feeling.

What was a closed country for much of their lives has been opened to the outside world. Prior to 1991 Russian men had all to themselves the worlds most beautiful women. Even today Russian men are spoiled by these women. For generations many Russian men knew they can spend 1 year, 2 years with a Russian woman and trade her in after they got tired of her as they had, and have, an endless supply of the world's most beautiful women.  One of the many stories being told about why Russian women seek a foreign man has some truths to it, certain foreign men will be better husbands and fathers.

Now I want to say I am speaking from my own personal perspective and I did not see how Russian men were treating Russian women in the 50's, or 60's or 80's.  My personal experience only goes back some 13 years.  During this time I have met many wonderful Russian men who were wonderful fathers, wonderful husbands and hard working providers. Faithful men who loved there wife's and children.  To say such men in Russia or Ukraine do not exist is more agency bullschit. Sure they exist.  Unfortunately, in my personal experience again, only about 25% of Russian men are this way.  One out of four.  Maybe Kvinna, other Russian women, will greatly disagree with me, maybe they will think it's 50%, or about half the men are good men. I would be greatly surprised if they would try to argue the point with me that more than 50% are what they consider good, faithful husband and fathers. But if I am wrong and it's 1 out or 2 Russian men as compared to 1 out of 4, many Russian women do know that they stand a good chance of finding a good husband, father, and provider in a foreign man.

Kvinna lives in Moscow.  In 1992, 93, 94, 95 where were ALL foreign men going?  To Moscow. Hundreds of thousands of men from all over the world, and a lot from a America, ran, swam, flew, to Moscow as soon as they could get there.  You hear the stories of the wealthy 5ft 6 balding man of 63 bringing to America a 24 year old 5ft 9 inch 120 pound goddess of a woman?  These were true stories in 93, 94, 95 and even 96.   Soon the world's playboys descended on Moscow and then St. Petersburg.  Kvinna and other Russian women see agencies like European Connections and Anastasia coming to Moscow with 70 American men meeting 250 ladies on Friday, 200 more ladies on Saturday and another 175 ladies on Sunday.  And I hate to say it but most of these men were not the best men we had to offer.

Kvinna see's thousands of these men coming to Moscow and "buying"  these young women's affection.  Yes, buying.  Money, clothes, jewelry, purse's, new shoes.  Over and over again she see's this happening. The same men coming trip after trip and buying new and younger women every trip.   If anyone wants to dispute this, you don't know what you are talking about.

In my 15 trips to Moscow over the years I have also learned a little about Moscow.  I am sure Kvinna is not going to like hearing this, and of course it's only my opinion, but there is no city in the world that has as many beautiful bad girls as Moscow. Why is this?  Again only my opinion.  Russia is a vast country, the largest in the world. Russia has the most beautiful women in the world.  All across Russia, in villages of 200 people, in small cities of 2000 people, there are millions of young and beautiful girls. Many of these stunning, beautiful girls know they have no real future in this city of 6500 people in western Siberia, she thinks to make something of herself she needs to go to the big city, she'll go to Moscow where maybe she can make something of herself, where maybe she can build a happy future. She does not want to live in this little city all her life.

Every day 1500 young and beautiful women from all over Russia, some from Ukraine, come to Moscow in an attempt to find a better life and make something of themselves. Every week 10,000 new young and stunning beauties come to this city of what, 12 million, 15 million people?  In a country where the population is decreasing, you have a city that is one of the worlds most populated cities and continues to grow at an alarming rate.

Many of these ladies who come to Moscow from the far corners of Russia are educated. They apply for this job or that job. Many of these stunning beauties find jobs. In today's Moscow unfortunately the bosses of many companies realize the fringe benefits they can, and do, receive from hiring a stunning beauty.

But not all these young beauties get the jobs they want. Many do not. What do they do, how do they survive?  Many of these young women, to survive, have to  get into the sex industry in one form or another.  Escorts, nude modeling, prostitution.  Again, no city in the world has as many beautiful bad girls as Moscow.

Kvinna see's this. She see's the constant trail of sex tourist coming to Moscow to play with, to buy, these young women.  Kvinna and other Russian women do not like what they see and a few years ago thought they would do what they could to help ease or change this situation.  Her intentions are good. 

Kvinna, when an anti-scam site will post photos of good women as scammers and this becomes known the site over time will eventually lose any creditability it has.
You have created a site with good intentions. If you allow your site to post and list men as bad who are not bad, over time your site could also lose credibility. Everyone makes mistakes Kvinna, it's no big deal, it's life. You don't want to see all your good work, and work of those who have helped you, to be diminished. 

Kvinna, list bad men.  List the sex tourist, I'll do all I can to support you.  But Kvinna, don't mistakenly list a good guy as bad. If it happens by accident, correct the mistake. In this case Kvinna I ask you to please remove everything you have posted about Bill.  A mistake has been made that could effect the good reputation you are wanting to build.   A mistake is made, again no problem as you have the means to correct this mistake and in an attempt to embellish the Anti-date goal and mission, to help maintain it's credibility, I ask you to please correct this mistake.






Offline Admin

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Re: Trippin in St Pete
« Reply #171 on: April 14, 2007, 09:33:52 AM »
Ban Kvinna!   Yea, that's the way to get things resolved.  You don't like what the messenger has to say, just ban them.

Or better yet, Kvinna, we won't ban you but because we think it would help you if you had some time away from RWD, you can come back after you get married.

In defense of jb (not that he needs, or even wants, my defense), I see his suggestion as sort of a tit-for-tat move.

Sadly, it is commonplace in many parts of the 'net for site owners to engage in a monologue - not allowing others to be heard - OR - if a forum, engaging in Draconian measures to silence the opposition (banning those who oppose their views). Some have accused RWD of such things, but I believe the facts speak for themselves and we do our very best to allow ALL to be heard - even when it is difficult to hear, and/or respond.

So.... my suspicion is that jb was merely recognizing the silencing done elsewhere, and suggesting we respond in kind. Admittedly, there is often a great temptation to do just that - respond in kind where a perceived wrong has been done. I just do not believe that is the answer.

FWIW

- Dan

Offline BillyB

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Re: Trippin in St Pete
« Reply #172 on: April 14, 2007, 09:44:47 AM »
Once again I would warn even you BillyB against person who cannot keep his tongue behind his teeth. If you like to deal with such ppl it is your business, but I have to warn you that someday he could devulgue your story on some board only for fun


I've never exchange posts with tall Bill except in this thread. Even if someone wanted to throw my story out for fun or hurt, the people who matter to me read my trip report and know the story. The reason I've been defending Bill is because I feel the ladies at anti-date are hanging him unjustly. Why have you allowed Bill's thread to stand but you erase a thread against a former poster here named Anono(Robert)?  I'm sure you read Anono's trip reports and Albert's. Those trip reports are clearly different from Bill's.

Kvinna, you control the tempo of your forum and you are in a position of power and infuence. I'm sure many women are influenced by what they read at your forum. I think it's honorable to warn women of sex tourists but I hope you would also guide your women there with knowledge on how to create a happy loving marriage with a good man when she finds one. There's more than one way to improve people's lives. Have a well rounded and balanced site and you will have well rounded and balanced people participate there.

I urge you and the ladies at anti-date to go to the forum at World Sex Guide and read. You will certainly forget about Tall Bill since he doesn't come close to those guys. Those guys are a different animal.

Jack, yes men are buying women with money and gifts so shame on them but women can't be bought unless they're willing to be sold. Shame on those women for promoting behavior like that from men.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline Jooky

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Re: Trippin in St Pete
« Reply #173 on: April 14, 2007, 09:54:13 AM »
Your site encourages women to share personal information of the men they meet.so as I see you decidу to twist facts and datas

Twisting facts? Your site doesn't encourage women to share personal information? What about your black list? What about the very thread about Tall Bill in question where his full name, location, links to his profile and personal details he related to a correspondent are disclosed?

Offline groovlstk

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Re: Trippin in St Pete
« Reply #174 on: April 14, 2007, 10:10:44 AM »
I hate to defend Prince Alfie's hotdog-eating pal Eric, but it's pretty apparent now that his thread on antidate -- like Bill's -- was initiated not by the woman he met in Kiev, but by some antidate harpy who read PA's third-party trip report here.

So basically there was a third-party trip report here on RWD that was never endorsed or commented on by the guy who experienced it. Then, a fourth party stole Eric's photo along with the TR's juicy parts -- all Prince Alfie's opinions -- and used it to roast him.

Kvinna, aren't you a journalist by trade? I know antidate isn't Pravda, but don't you consider sources to be pretty important when you tear a guy's reputation to shreds? Honestly, you're making Honest Jim look like Edward R. Murrow in comparison...

 

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