Who is desperate and why they should or should not be?

[Bruce]

Desperation could be taken in many different ways, some of which can be used positively.  The 44 year old guy who is not meeting the kind of girl he desires may need a sense of desperation to get him to move off his arse, think outside of the box a little bit (used to be more of a reach than today with all the chat boards etc.), look over the internet and come to the FSU.  In fact, I fully believe the American guy who is not meeting the kind of girl he wants may be able to meet this kind of woman in the FSU.  So, the guy should desperately want to get his finances in order, desperately want to schedule his vacation time, desperately do his best to prepare himself, desperately get on the plane and go to the FSU................from the point he gets on the plane to fly to the FSU he should forget about a sense of desperation completely.  From this point on he should, look, listen, meet, interact, learn and slowly take his time to form a rational decision about what is best for him.  He should also forget about his first impressions during the time he is with the girl / girls of his dream(s) after he comes home and thoroughly think things through.  After that he should cerebrally make his plan for either a revisit, decide the FSU is not right for him, decide to change strategies, ask questions pertinent to his situation and slowly readdress his situation.  When everything is fully digested, and only then should he make his next move.  In the case of something positive he should make his moves sooner than later..............though correspondence, phone calls etc. should help him make his decision(s) at this point!

As far as women in the FSU I am not sure they should be desperate to leave their home country as well.  Only if they feel they meet the love of their life should they want to try a new country.  They have many more hurdles than the average guy.  They have to go to a new country at least initially as a second class citizen.  They have to learn a foreign language (even if they are fluent in English they do not know expressions, colloquial language etc.).  They have to learn our system.  They have to learn our culture.  They have to be willing to be adventerous, to take a chance in a new, strange country with sometimes differing values and customs.  If a girl first meets a man of character from the West, who will help her emotionally and add stability to her life, who practices fidelity and they have roughly the same hopes, dreams and aspirations for the future - only then should she become desperate!  Love will conquer the barriers and a sense of desperation on her part to make things work between herself and her new found boyfriend leading to fiance or husband will only help her get her own life in order / learn English, German etc. better ; prior to her move to the West!

[jb]

WOW~!

Bruce, when we talk about taking the ball and running headlong for the goal post, obviously we are taking about you.  Great post.

Nothing in your opening salvo commutates the sense of the word "desperate" that I got from the other thread.  The notion I got was; many people involved in providing goods and services to the MOB industry believe they are dealing with sadsack losers on the male side, and perhaps manipulative, over eager to leave poverty behind women, on the female side.  Maybe I just read it differently.

One thought I had was that desperation will usually spur people into making rash, hasty, and otherwise bad decisions. Being desperate to find someone will lead you down the path of finding 'anyone', not 'someone', there's a huge difference between the two.  While I don't want this to degenerate into another "one week wonder" thread, I somehow get the sense that too many men are so wrapped up in finding someone, that they will accept anyone.  A line I remember from a Harrison Ford movie, as he explained to the love interest about how does a woman attract a man, "She shows up, we're men,,, we're easy", I fear there's more than a little truth to that idea.

I would like to convey to the men in the "looking " phase of RW search, a simple thought, you don't have to be easy.  Whoever coined the phrase, "There's lots of fish in the sea", knew of which he spoke.  There's tons of really nice, serious, sincere, women in the world, there's one or more who would be a perfect match for him.  

It will be interesting to see this thread develop, I am interested to hear other thoughts on the subject of "being desperate".

[KenC]

Nice post Bruce, but I also got the idea (from Doug's rant) that he was speaking of the sad sap guys that couldn't find a date here unless they paid for it.  It is the whole "explotation" angle that bothers me.  I just don't see it.  I think there is a majority of men that go to the fsu that fall into this catagory too.  They want to believe the fairy tales of dorks marrying beauty queens from the fsu.  (Oh, wait a sec, that's me)  LOL  Has anyone ever heard of "buyers beware"?  Or better yet, "there's a sucker born every minute"?  Too bad for the poor desperate men that marry a GC shark.  It probably will be the best two years of their lives before she hits the road.

Not everyone is equal, nor do they deserve the same opportunities.  I am sick and tired of these tree hugging liberal ****s that think so.  There is a natural human selection process going on here.  The prettiest girls get the richest guys.  Deal with it.

KenC

[jb]

edited by user

[Bruno]

[line]
There is a natural human selection process going on here.  The prettiest girls get the richest guys.  Deal with it.
[line]


A other natural selection... the scammer, gold diggers, visa whore get to the richest guys...

Good for little man like me who earn only 1200$ month ... i have find a wonderfull woman, Galina... before, with the first wife, i can earn 5000$ month... you know the result ...

[Vaughn]

Bruce:

The 44 year old guy who is not meeting the kind of girl he desires may need a sense of desperation to get him to move off his arse, think outside of the box a little bit

Gotta admit, I desperately took an honest inventory of my own past failings before I even began my quest, and resolved to deal with those first. Of course, a trek to acquaint in Russia was far more adventurous than finding a date locally - and the sheer number of times I bent unwillingly to cater to a - may I use the word? - "coven" of American ladies who bore little appreciation for my efforts, was a direct function of my own desperation in a negative sense. When I made my plans to head East the first time, yeah, I was excited - but my sense of "inventory" held fast - and I journeyed with an air of calm. I desperately wanted to enjoy my visit, and not be hostage to a wave of expectation. If I could convince just one newbie to leave all K-1 paperwork at home, and resolve to relax and absorb all the FSU has to offer!

Vaughn    

[Bruce]

Amazing how we all can come up with different ways of looking at how the word desperation can apply to men from the West, their motivation(s) and vice-versa when it comes to women from the FSU. 

Ken, money helps, but I am sure you are and have done alot of other things right besides giving your girl security.  You have always come accross as a man of character and I am sure your wife (I think Lena, but correct me if I am wrong) sees it also.  I just do not picture you as a sweaty guy with seven rings on your fingers and a bunch of gold chains around a shirt buttoned down to your belly button.  No way!  Bruno is a case in point when he had the money and the girl left him, while now he does not have an exhorbitant sum and he has an even better girl for him. 

Vaugn - your words convey the attitude any newbie should have once he gets to the FSU.  Thats why, in part, you ultimately found the right girl for you.  One thing which especially motivated me was when I would get involved again and again and again with the local single scene - only to push me to once again try to get things right in Russia.  Jack has it right when he says once you go to Russia its hard to go back to American women.  They are good to kill time with and help motivate you for your next trip to the FSU. 

Sure there is the commonly connotated "desperation" of the loser guy who feels as if in life he is a team down by seven on its own 20 yard line with 9 second to go in the game - where going to the FSU is a last ditch attempt by his strong armed quarterback to heave it down the field as far as he can hoping to have one of his recievers come down with the ball and race to the end zone.  Sure the women are seen as cold, half starved creatures desperately searching for any ticket out of their unregulated, unkempt, barbaric icy hell!  I firmly believe those fools and their money are quickly taken first by the manipulative agencies who quickly take their money and then by the visa whore who clawed their hide.  In the end the agency got money - but they can not look at themselves in the mirror at night (or they shouldn't be able to), the women usually end up miserably anyway - because you can take the babe out of hell, but you can not take the hell out of the babe - and the true loser, who has not had a date for seven years, after all his trials and tribulations with his "hot" woman from hell - can at least say he did something.  A person who has not failed has done nothing.  The "loser" will get up eventually and be wiser from his experience...............or not.  I believe the "loser" will get up, I just hope he was smart enough to protect his assets when he was in the gag, gag gooey eyed stage of enchantment..........and hope he was not a "one week wonder."

Really - I wish there was a way to just wipe out the Fat Yuri's of the world and the big tour agencies who so crudely are doing their best to ruin whatever is left of the interpersonal thaw that emerged in the cold war.   

[KenC]

Gee Bruce, you have become the voice of reason here.  LOL.  So you don't think I am a  Mediterranean lounge lizard?   LMAO.  Of course I over simplified it.  My point is the best men usually end up with the best women and vis versa.  If one or the other is out of whack with the level of their partner, there is a reason for it.  And usually it is some hidden flaw or worse some hidden agenda.

KenC

[Bruno]

[line]




desperate... loser...




[line]




If you have already make the move to search a woman, you are no more a "desperate loser" but you are a "fighter" who take his own life in hand... and you don't need read the rest of these post... And i think that everybody on these forum have already make the first step...

If you are newbies and you don't know if you wish follow the process to love, because you feel yoursel a "desperate loser", read these post... if you follow these advice, you will not more be "desperate" or "loser" but a man, a real one with his quality and lack... and you will be ready for search your love partner without fear !



[line]



This is for all you shy and lonely guys out there. It's painful enough being alone, but seeing "everyone else" laughing and having a good time with wives and girlfriends, how easy it is to despair of ever gaining these pleasures, to resign yourself to being tortured forever by loneliness, to slip into hopelessness. To give up.

No! You hold in your own hands the power to change your life. If only you could turn the same talent and experience that have brought you success in other pursuits to the challenge of finding, meeting, and creating a relationship with a love mate, what wonders might you yet accomplish? For so many desperate and empty years have you struggled to find a companion, something that seems to come naturally to so many other men, yet you have choked on ashes and bitterness. Nonetheless, it is your very failures that make you worthy of love. You will succeed, You will relate in a rare and meaningful way to a woman, and to a depth that will forever be denied those to whom love comes too easily and who therefore take it for granted. You have remained true to the romantic ideal and have escaped the fate of those cynical burnouts that you envy in moments of weakness. Unlike the professional Romeos, those manipulators and skillful predators who attract women effortlessly, you see a love relationship as the singularly precious thing it is. How very fortunate will be the woman who wins your heart.

Hard work and pain lie ahead. This journey of self-discovery and transformation demands all the courage and determination you can muster. Grit your teeth, for there is much learning to be done, and many mountains loom in the distance. Fortunately you need climb only one at a time.
Each painful lesson will leave you, if bloodied, ever more determined to press onward. As hard steel is tempered by heating, then quenching in cold water, so too will your character be strengthened by the hardships you surmount. Growing hurts.


If there is a purpose to life's cruelties and tragedies, it is to make of you a better person. This lends credence to the assertion that the only truly strong and quality people are those that have been fire-hardened and polished by adversity.

You will never, never give up. Life is about making mistakes and collecting bruises, learning from them, becoming transformed by them. There is something universal about making a fool of yourself, falling on your face, being rejected by a woman. It has happened to you. It may well happen again. It happens to everyone.

Rejection, rejection by a woman, rejection by the woman, the woman who has captured your thoughts, the woman whose smile sends delicious shivers of warmth down your spine, the woman whose touch you dream of ... this icy doom fills you with dread. It is the utter desolation of helplessness. It is the worm of self-doubt. It is the gripping fear that warns you to abandon hope.

Rejection is a part of everyday life. People are turned down for raises, refused promotions, declined for loans, and passed over for recognition. Rejection is not final. Rejection is not failure. Rejection is not ruin. Indeed, rejection is the necessary precursor to eventual triumph.

Before proceeding farther, it is time to define your own individual identity, to get a firm grasp on who and what you are, to figure out what differentiates you from all the other humans running around in the wide world. This is hard work, and will require a considerable investment in time and effort... and thought.

Having a girlfriend will not solve any problems - it will tend to worsen them, if anything. Bonding with a woman will add to the tension and pressure already on you. You need to fix up your life and your Self to be worthy of a meaningful relationship, to be able to uphold your end of it. Learn to be comfortable with yourself, to use your aloneness creatively, to transform lonely into self-sufficient.

The less you need others, the more they will be attracted to you.

Gain social skills. Communicate with people. Learn how to talk. Becoming at ease in conversation makes it easier to make friends and relate to them. Empathize with and help those around you. Partake of their joys and griefs, their accomplishments and failures. Grow, and share your own experiences with them.
Build on your existing social connections - family, friends, and colleagues at work. Even business relationships of the most impersonal sort help establish your place in the scheme of things and reinforce your inner sense of connectedness. You must break out of your isolation, emerge from your cocoon before you can even entertain the notion of a romantic relationship.
Become a "collector" of people. Enlarge your social circle. This means reaching out to strangers, saying hello to persons unknown, and in general, meeting people and acquiring casual friends and acquaintances. Making new contacts is sometimes difficult and always a little scary, but it pays off in the long run - you never know who will introduce you to your next girlfriend. This is called networking.
Recreate yourself as a more interesting person. Keep up with current events. Read books. Continue your education. Pursue hobbies and interests, cultivate skills. Become proficient in some endeavor, some field. Being looked up to as an expert will gain you respect and admiration. Help others and teach them.
Evolve and develop into a strong, independent individual. Become a helper, a resource. Give support and encouragement to those that need it. Be a pillar of strength to those weaker than you. Volunteer your services to groups that help others. Let the goodness in your heart shine as a beacon to those around you. Know that what you get from life is a return on what you give.

A gaping chasm splits off the landscape of the shy and lonely from the rest of humanity. This is the great divide between losers and winners, so we are told. What radical transformation, then, would it require to reshape a shy person into an extroverted, socially adept one? Where would you find the kind savior to rescue you from the prison of your loneliss and tutor you in the social skills needed to escape from the four walls of your own head? Where can you learn to care for, to love another?

What shapes your fate is your own perceptions, your old ingrained habits of fear and failure. Others sense how you feel about yourself and mirror your self-image back at you. Face yourself, know thyself, and take your life into your own hands. Become a stronger person and depend no more on fortuitous happenstance, on wishing and hoping.

Close your eyes, clench them closed, hard, and look, look inward. Feel the pattern, touch it, imagine the matrix of blinding, blue-white pinpoints burning, burning hotter than the fires of Hell; explore the blazing, erupting cascade of energy, the star cluster at the center of your galaxy, the nucleus at the center of your primeval atom, at your center, at the center of YOU. This is the source, the source of your power, your heat, your light, your radiance, your life energy. This is you.
Guard yourself, ward yourself carefully, protect your innermost core. Keep a balanced perspective, staying aware of your flaws, knowing that these do not make you any the less a good and decent and worthy person. Draw strength from your talents, the things you do well, and extend from there. Build a fortress, a retreat, a quiet space within you, a retreat from the demands and abrasions and impersonal cruelties of a harsh and coldly indifferent world.

There is a powerful feedback cycle operating here. If you know yourself (and act accordingly) as a man confident in his strength, a man to be reckoned with, people tune in on this and send back respect, even admiration. Likewise, the feelings of those around you tend to seep into your awareness. All the more reason to keep your private self, your private thoughts and feelings private, not to share with strangers, with people who have not earned your trust. Limit your exposure, your vulnerability to the anxieties, neuroses, prejudices, and manipulations of the world outside yourself.

Create a support system of friends and acquaintances who reassure and validate you. Avoid those who tear you down, the destructive ones, the users, the energy vampires who live off your life-blood.

Meeting a woman for the first time (or even the fifth time) can precipitate a crisis of nerves. It is an all too familiar feeling, that hard knot in the stomach, the clenching behind the jaw, the sweaty palms, red face, stammering, being unable to swallow. You panic, choke up, and it is a major relief to escape from the situation. Another opportunity blown.

Beneath nervousness lurks shattering fear, the stuff of childhood nightmares. Admit the fear. Confront it. You fear making a fool of yourself. You fear messing up. You fear rejection. You fear ridicule. You fear mocking laughter. You fear what fear itself is doing to you, breaking down your resolve and triggering the reflex to run and hide. Yet, you can grit your teeth and fight back. Know you can be afraid, and still do what needs to be done.

Distance yourself from the woman talking to you, exciting you, yes, but crippling you with anxiety. Need, desperation, and loneliness have dragged you into a whirlpool of hyperacute emotional sensitivity. It is as though your feelings were a raw open wound, and a single touch means agony. Weakness! Vulnerability! In your mind, put up a shield, construct an invisible barrier between the two of you. Imagine someone else is there, someone less threatening, perhaps a childhood acquaintance or your third grade teacher. This effectively removes the emotional charge from the encounter.
You and the woman across from you are, as yet, strangers to one another, all possibilities unrealized, and you cannot, will not impinge upon each other, neither physically nor yet in the realm of feelings. You are only just building a bridge to each other,"establishing diplomatic relations". It is a small, safe beginning.


In time, you will learn to harness the motive force, the savage power, the explosive energy that fuels your mind and body's reaction to challenge. Fear can mobilize, rather than paralyze. Think of it as a resource, a reservoir of energy. Harness it. Use it. Learn to fly with it.

Only the bridge of self-acceptance and understanding traverses the abyss isolating us from our fellow humans. We shy people must of necessity become our own rescuers, teachers and saviors. Yet, if the tools for self-transformation exist, they are difficult to use. Social skills can be learned, as a rule slowly and sometimes painfully, but loneliness is a powerful motivator.

Self-confidence flows from the courage to make fundamental choices - choosing to accept risk, to confront failure, and to learn from it. It means testing yourself against adversity, and ultimately defining yourself by your resistance to despair, your defiance of defeat, your endurance in the face of suffering. It means surviving rejection, embarrassment, even total humiliation - finding meaning in them, and coming back stronger than ever. It means building a hard inner core of strength on the network of scar tissue left over from old injuries. It means getting up when you fall and bouncing back from defeat. It means accepting and respecting yourself as you are, with all your flaws and warts.

Self-confidence grows as you discover your strengths and learn to accept your weaknesses. It is not a quality that can be ripped out of the context of personal growth, that can be distilled to a simple formula, that can be indoctrinated by repetition of mantras, that can be applied as a veneer to cover up inner doubts and fears. It radiates from within, as a consequence of clarity of purpose and sheer force of will.
Unlike most people, those who sleepwalk their way through life, the ones to whom self-confidence was spoon-fed as part of the socialization process, you stand out as "weak" and unsure of yourself. Of course, those others are self-confident, they belong to a family, a group, a social circle that nurtures and reinforces their belief in themselves. But it is not rooted deeply within their own self, and there is no steel beneath the surface. Their character lacks the fire-hardening of adversity, and is all the more vulnerable and fragile for it. It requires only one sharp blow, one misfortune or lurch to disrupt their 'sense of place', their self-confidence, their fundamental identity.

Becoming reconciled to your flaws and weaknesses gives a realistic perspective on life and strengthens you for the challenges ahead. You gradually come to the realization that you are a worthwhile person, that your struggles toughen and ennoble you, that your most painful failures build character. Grow and learn to take your place in the world.

You are an intelligent person. Recognize this. Wisdom, gleaned from painful experience, builds the judgment to make reasoned decisions. Knowledge and competence set you apart. Talents and skills, carefully nurtured, win respect from your peers... yet you avoid the trap of arrogance. Calm and controlled, exercise common sense, that most noble of virtues. You have attained maturity.
You are an honest person. Your source of inner strength is rock-solid integrity, an iron-clad sense of honor. Practice restraint and do not abuse your authority over others. Have a kind, generous heart and help those less fortunate. Value morality, but show compassion toward the weaknesses of others, and understand your own.
You are a shy person. Yet does not your very shyness set you apart, give you your own particular charm, exalt you? Shyness is your center, your power, your shield and armor. Wear it proudly. Glory in it.
Life is funny, and sometimes bizarre. Laugh at it, and at your own self. People who take themselves too seriously are pompous, and make spectacles of themselves. A sense of humor keeps things in perspective, preserves your sanity, and perchance might even entertain your friends and associates.
Let yourself be a thoughtful and caring person. As an attentive listener, you inspire trust in others, and they freely express their feelings in your presence. Your sensitivity gives you insight into their needs. Express your own feelings in an honest but restrained manner, and do not hide your vulnerability. Give and accept compliments. Help. Give comfort. Be a friend as well as a lover.

Popular culture depicts a sleek, long legged, big-breasted nubile blonde as the ideal love partner... just the type of fantasy woman who would turn up her nose at a shy man, and why not, as she could choose from any number of ruggedly handsome socially adept men... These are the beautiful people, a world unto themselves, unapproachable, narcissistic, smug, and far removed from reality. Shy men are well advised to stay clear of this particular crowd.
Consider instead women outside the mainstream. Fellow social outcasts, these are real people, human beings who have had to grapple with life's hardships, to endure pain, to choke on embarrassment, to feel the lash of rejection... just as you have. Struggling with problems, rebounding from failure, learning by necessity to fight - all this develops the personality, forces one to grow, to become fully human, to become capable of loving and worthy of being loved.

You don't feel yourself ready to search the right woman after read all these post... OK, make a try with a pets... Consider adopting a homeless pet from a local shelter. Looking after a pet can teach you much about loving, about learning to share warmth and give of yourself, about taking responsibility. A pet returns affection and loyalty for the care and love it receives. It is a simple way to discover the rewards of loving and caring, but without the sticky complications of a human relationship.

Loving a pet is more than petting and playing with him, more than the look of gratitude in his eyes when you feed him. It is walking him late at night in cold, rainy weather. It is cleaning up the messes she makes when she knocks over the trash. It is cancelling a long planned vacation because you cannot find a neighbor to feed her while you're away. It is having to pass up that great condo apartment because pets are not allowed. It means messing up your plans and disrupting your routine... to care for another. It means inconveniencing yourself, making sacrifices, and putting another's needs ahead of your own. It's a total commitment... just like a relationship with a woman.

[Photo Guy]

Not everyone is equal, nor do they deserve the same opportunities.  I am sick and tired of these tree hugging liberal ****s that think so.  There is a natural human selection process going on here.  The prettiest girls get the richest guys.  Deal with it.

KenC

I agree with Bruno, there are pitfalls in that generalization.
There are a range of 'pretties' and a range of 'rich guys'.
ie dumb/pretty, unethical/pretty, shallow/pretty, wise/pretty,
kind/pretty,  and   boring/rich guy, materialist/rich guy,
embezzler/rich guy, religious/rich guy, kind/rich, etc.  
Sure, not everyone is equal, but the focus should be on the
ability to choose qualities of character.
Its' easy to be blinded by those two surface qualities-
beauty and wealth. Dig under the surface. You're right, people
often create their own opportunities, depending on how they
use their abilities. No doubt about that. And natural selection
can go wrong big-time.  -doug L.

[2tallbill]

The late Great jb dispensing Pearls of Wisdom

One thought I had was that desperation will usually spur people into making rash, hasty, and otherwise bad decisions. Being desperate to find someone will lead you down the path of finding 'anyone', not 'someone', there's a huge difference between the two. 

[Trenchcoat]

I agree with Bruno, there are pitfalls in that generalization.
There are a range of 'pretties' and a range of 'rich guys'.
ie dumb/pretty, unethical/pretty, shallow/pretty, wise/pretty,
kind/pretty,  and   boring/rich guy, materialist/rich guy,
embezzler/rich guy, religious/rich guy, kind/rich, etc. 
Sure, not everyone is equal, but the focus should be on the
ability to choose qualities of character.
Its' easy to be blinded by those two surface qualities-
beauty and wealth. Dig under the surface. You're right, people
often create their own opportunities, depending on how they
use their abilities. No doubt about that. And natural selection
can go wrong big-time.  -doug L.

I think you're right, I don't believe in natural selection when it comes to us humans. Sure some natural selection is still at play but a whole host of other stuff happens also. How many rich or famous people, popstars for example don't have kids or choose not to, there are some, yet they are at the top of the ladder theoretically. One the other side of the coin how many ugly looking or very poor people get together and have kids perhaps finding comfort in each others shared situation, quite a lot I get the impression.

It's something I hear from time to time about natural selection but if it were true we would all be super humans by now lol. I agree that the situation is usually a lot more complex and in addition to the complexities involved there is also societal complexities.

Women often want a guy who is 'all that' in the west so yeah for sure having a load of attributes that the opposite sex find admirable will likely turf up a lot of relationship opportunities and for the other gender vice versa. A lot though can depend on what people are willing to accept, sone can get relationships but not with people they want to be with and I think that comes into play a lot also.

[2tallbill]

A lot though can depend on what people are willing to accept, sone can get relationships
but not with people they want to be with and I think that comes into play a lot also.

Trench there was 100 pieces of good advice in this thread, but you managed to find
one thing that somewhat supported your __________ (enter rude word here) views
and latched on to that.

What you need to do is to do is
1. Find a good girl (otherwise you are dead).
2. Completely stop with all the fake bs stuff. If you need a list I can provide it.
3. Search for a woman you find attractive who is over 36 years old. 
4. Read the part above about her having a daughter and if you don't understand it
ask me on this thread and I will try to explain it to you.
5. Pick ONE thing below to improve
A. Finish your remodel immediately
B. Work out 5 days per week
C. Study an hour of Russian 5 days per week (this is by far the cheapest with the least effort)
6. I have good reasons for every single one of those pieces of advice. So before discounting
them and coming up with ____________ (enter rude word here) excuses and rationalizing
you can actually improve your chances of success by learning something and changing your
approach. 

Ask questions rather than spew your philosophies and theories.

Udachi
Bill

[Trenchcoat]

Thanks for the reply Bill, I've answered here so as to avoid derailing this thread:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=25606.400

[Daveman]

... A lot though can depend on what people are willing to accept, sone can get relationships but not with people they want to be with and I think that comes into play a lot also.

jb, as per usual, knocked it out of the park in thread above.

"Willing to accept" should be "willing to settle for" -- semantics, but a more apt representation.  Women settle for a man they'll never love, and guys try to grab up the first decent looking babe they can get -- while deluding themselves that her angelic looks on the outside are representative of her inner being.

You mentioned in another thread that 90% of these marriages fail. It's no wonder. The overwhelming majority of guys focus on how attracted to women they are.  "I got her number I got her number" "Ok, why the hell would you want it? She's not into you, dude. She'll date you, even marry you for stability, but YOU would be the one settling for a crock of shit."

There *IS* absolutely a science to this. It's uncomplicated and repeatable. You simply have to weed out a bajillion women to find the ones highly attracted to you (to whom you are also attracted of course) AND have the compatibility ratio that could lead to something very long term. That takes time and effort -- and it's a bummer when you have to dump pretty ladies (as rapidly as possible I will add) because they're not making the attraction/compatibility cut, but if every guy would engage the process of dating with blood in the brain (at least most of the time) that 90% divorce rate you mention somewhere would drop. 

Then the age gap plays a role.  Men hate to admit it, but even if everything is wonderful many will age out if the gap is large enough. There are exceptions as usual, but it's not an inconsequential factor.

[krimster2]

i'm pretty sure incels are all willing to settle for any woman "slower than them" that they can catch
the problem with incels "playing the numbers game" is their number
ZERO is a hard number to work with
go on your computer and divide by ZERO, look what happens

then compounding the problem, is the fact that they get so damned "used to zero"
that whenever they run into a pretty integer, they have NO FREAKIN idea WTF to do
so, they do nothing, and 0 is still the number on the display, and not 1 + 1
so the integer just goes and multiplies with somebody else who KNOWS arithmetic

but wait, that's NOT ALL!!!
they have some awareness of this...
just enough to buy "bogus" self-help books that advocate various "pick-up" styles
that will tell ta what i'm gonna tell ya RIGHT HERE, fer free
so save your $9.95

here's whatcha do...
ok...ya listening????

ya get yourself one of these here joke invisible dawg leashes/collars
and ya go sit on a street that has a lot of pedestrians

every time a pretty girl walks by ya
have your invisible dawg start humping her leg by turning it into your puppet

do this 100 times with random women you meet, and you'll get laid at least twice, but slapped hard at least three times, which if you ask me is a pretty fair trade
I think this ain't worth $10 though IMHO

if you can afford it, you should get yourself one of them fancy new "toilette trikes" (see pic of a high end one)
and ride around until you meet a woman with IBS

be like a magnet lookin for some iron
drag yourself down a road on a piece of string and see what gets stuck to ya, BBs, old nails, keep whatever tickles your fancy
just find some ole rusty place to look in
that's one of them metaphors, and I never metaphor I didn't just like immediately
so don't go out and get a magnet, unless ya wanna do magnet fishing in a canal (which is fun, but dirty, makes my wife look at me and roll her eyes)
but i've found working firearms this way, generally tossed by criminals
after soaking in solvents and cleaning, are "throw-aways" for any kinda homicide I wanna call self-defensse (but only if it looks like i'm gonna get caught)
haha, i'm just kidding

PS
the problem with incels, is that they're stuck in a "Dating Doom Loop"
and they don't know to break out of it

have any of you incels even TRIED the invisible dawg routine?
not one of you, right?

the people I know who used this are 100% married, including me
but I have a real dawg now

maybe some of you are cat people

[Shadow]

When you divide by almost zero, you imagie having near infinite possibilities.

[krimster2]

the reults of a "Divide By Zero Error" is a life, or a mathematic expression, that has no meaning

Division is the inverse of multiplication
multiplication of any number by ZERO IS ZERO!!!

if you have a life with no meaning, you cannot multiply it to make ig bigger/better

[Trenchcoat]

jb, as per usual, knocked it out of the park in thread above.

"Willing to accept" should be "willing to settle for" -- semantics, but a more apt representation.  Women settle for a man they'll never love, and guys try to grab up the first decent looking babe they can get -- while deluding themselves that her angelic looks on the outside are representative of her inner being.

You mentioned in another thread that 90% of these marriages fail. It's no wonder. The overwhelming majority of guys focus on how attracted to women they are.  "I got her number I got her number" "Ok, why the hell would you want it? She's not into you, dude. She'll date you, even marry you for stability, but YOU would be the one settling for a crock of shit."

There *IS* absolutely a science to this. It's uncomplicated and repeatable. You simply have to weed out a bajillion women to find the ones highly attracted to you (to whom you are also attracted of course) AND have the compatibility ratio that could lead to something very long term. That takes time and effort -- and it's a bummer when you have to dump pretty ladies (as rapidly as possible I will add) because they're not making the attraction/compatibility cut, but if every guy would engage the process of dating with blood in the brain (at least most of the time) that 90% divorce rate you mention somewhere would drop. 

Then the age gap plays a role.  Men hate to admit it, but even if everything is wonderful many will age out if the gap is large enough. There are exceptions as usual, but it's not an inconsequential factor.

Not just guys but girls also I think, some girls are willing to get with guys because 'he's a rich dude' like you say they don't love him and never will but they'll shackle themself to him just because of his pot of gold. It's unfair on him as he's stuck with a girl who has no love and little care for him. But such women will tie themselves to a guy like that and won't let go even though they are unsuited to each other. If such a couple were to break up they could each find someone they are suited to in theory but they are stopping themselves and the other people they could be with from finding someone who loves and cares about them, in theory at least. So potentially 4 lives screwed up.

That said of course there is reality and how likely something is to happen. How perfect a match up to go for? A checkbox list can become a blocking list if applied too harshly. Sometimes I think while some people are totally unsuited it can often be just a case of finding a decent match up, compatibility, chemistry, love, caring, etc.

Pretty boys & girls I think are most datable obviously because if their looks while the more less fortunate the less options available. Less options may not be so bad to a point as it does a lot of the sifting and sorting for you but if it gets too little on the options then it becomes a problem. That's kind of an issue as it's easy for some pretty boy to say, 'yeah go date a bazillion girls until you find the right one'. It has some go in it for us in the FSU as it's easier for less attractive western guys to get dates than it is in the west. You only have to a small degree of affluence as a western guy in Ukraine and you can have some pulling power. In the west it's difficult to date girls. Many earn the same as you so no pulling power there. So getting a look in, in the first place can be a problem in the west. For me there are girls I could do, the unattractive ones, the fatties, etc but it's just not the women I am into.

Whether I can find a girl in the FSU who genuinely loves and cares for me who knows but the perceived wealthy westerner who can provide is usually a foot in the door to make it to the first interview date stage with the ladies at least then it's down to the guy, etc.

[krimster2]

you can guess if somebody's got the right kinda magnetic polarity as you
and then deal with the consequences later if they're not
-or--
you just see whatever you find stuck to your magnet and know automatically that they're magnetic
but magnet fisherman, don't leave their magnets in the garage
if they did, they wouldn't catch nothin, DUH!
you don't need to go to the mountain
if the mountains all automatically become stuck to you
not by your own direct efforts, but just because they followed the LAWS of physics

fishers-of-women
they gotta cast their magnet into the canal
and do it over and over and over and over
until they snag a treasure

every cast is made with renewed hopeful optimism
cuz you NEVER KNOW when you're gonna find something that boggles your mind
I NEVER met a sad fisherman when he was fishing
or when he reeled in a "big-un"

Dating is a game with two players
the goal is to WIN, by turning a game of competition that provides NO benefit to either party into a game of cooperation that DOES...
"playas" can achieve superior outcomes by working together WITH a woman, rather than working against each other...
the problem for incels is that they're trying to cooperate with women too far above them
so these wimmin they think their value is a hell of a lot more than the little scrap you're tryin to sell 'em
and when you look at women the same value as you, you go "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA" and run away
but somehow they're supposed to all show you their tits at the first sight of you...

i'm sorry, but I think you may just have slighly inaccurate expectations
but, carry on, old chap, stiff upper, well you-know...
mustn't grumble

[Trenchcoat]

"Willing to accept" should be "willing to settle for" -- semantics, but a more apt representation.  Women settle for a man they'll never love, and guys try to grab up the first decent looking babe they can get -- while deluding themselves that her angelic looks on the outside are representative of her inner being.

You mentioned in another thread that 90% of these marriages fail. It's no wonder. The overwhelming majority of guys focus on how attracted to women they are.  "I got her number I got her number" "Ok, why the hell would you want it? She's not into you, dude. She'll date you, even marry you for stability, but YOU would be the one settling for a crock of shit."

There *IS* absolutely a science to this. It's uncomplicated and repeatable. You simply have to weed out a bajillion women to find the ones highly attracted to you (to whom you are also attracted of course) AND have the compatibility ratio that could lead to something very long term. That takes time and effort -- and it's a bummer when you have to dump pretty ladies (as rapidly as possible I will add) because they're not making the attraction/compatibility cut, but if every guy would engage the process of dating with blood in the brain (at least most of the time) that 90% divorce rate you mention somewhere would drop. 

Then the age gap plays a role.  Men hate to admit it, but even if everything is wonderful many will age out if the gap is large enough. There are exceptions as usual, but it's not an inconsequential factor.

Thinking some more on this I would say that in the main I would be looking for a girl where there is that natural quick flirty eye contact that tells me that she fancies me and there is chemistry there. Now in the UK I come across girls like that every so often but there is normally other guys they are attracted to also and the competition is a lot tougher here, people more wealthier, more better looking, more better socially than me (this one often) so I don't tend to come top. I get in the running at least but unless you come at the top you tend to lose out every time. Unless I find a girl attractive and there is chemistry in the UK then I'm not interested in her. To be honest the days of girls getting with guys in the UK just to provide for them are mostly gone unless you're particularly wealthy or she is particularly lazy. Even with lazy girls the welfare state here tends to see them good better than the US even. So all in all UK girls don't have much inclination to get with a guy they aren't really feeling it with.

Ukraine on the other hand is a bit of a different kettle of fish. It's much poorer even moreso of late and the provider situation is still in force. In a way the provider situation does help to stop girls being ridiculously picky and having stupidly silly standards for who they are and in another way it can end up with some guy with a woman who doesn't really care for him but for the money he brings in.

So yeah I would really want to see that natural quick flirty eye contact that she is naturally turned on. The good thing with Ukraine (or Moldova, etc) is that I would tend to come top of the other guys that might be interested out there for once. Even though my earning power is not significant in the UK it still outstrips the guys in Ukraine often by a long way. Add in a stable country and stable enough economy (welfare state, NHS, etc) then I'm streets ahead of the competition. So I could succeed with a girl where there is chemistry over there where I wouldn't here.

That would be the ideal. The provider stuff I get it's not as ideal but for some it may suit better than the single life. Some guys may be content enough to have a girl who is just with them who can provide so long as they have kids and the kids will hopefully care about him. Sometimes there is on offer what is on offer and that's about the best done guys can hope for and try and make a decent as life as possible out of it. Some dudes may be ugly, fat, balding, not so great a personality, etc so what girl is going to want to go with them? Often such guys want a reasonably attractive girl even if they are not attractive so for them and possibly some others the provider deal might be them only deal on the table to reach for or go without so whatever suits I guess.

I get you though some guys go swanning after girls they are not attracted to and vice versa just because she is attractive looking whether it be for sex or a relationship. Why they don't get that it's pointless and better to move in to finding a girl who is showing natural chemistry I don't know, they just get lost in it all I guess.

[krimster2]

Sweet Aryan Jeezuz, Masha, and Ioseff
Birmingham is the 2nd largest city in Britain
you seriously can't gain some traction in Birmingham?
why not?
what groups, organizations, clubs, etc do you belong to there?
oh NONE!!!!
hmmmmmmmmmm....
I wonder if that might be connected somehow...

your plan of waiting until a comely female magazine saleswoman knocks on your door
seems to be suffering from an excessive delay....
I would urge you to reconsider your approach in light of this

I'd think an "academic type" like you (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) would find Birmingham/Rochdale, etc
to be a ripe target for your discerning artistic eye
and you can learn to transform a craft into an art
if you have even a wee bit of imagination

from there you can search for the female counter-part of this species
which exists in abundance in every university city in the UK, of every age strata
lonely intellectual women (usually with cat(s))
who are horny as hell (you have to compete against their toys, so you better know WTF you're doing, or you'll get dumped for a $30 vibrator)

why are you 'sweating' trench, you worried?

OTOH, I am the man with "the golden touch and tongue"
cuz women taught me how they do it to each other...
and, try though I might, I really could't offer any improvements to what was demonstrated to me...
and after I saw this with enough frequency, I was able to copy it on my own...

do this, and guess what you get in return?
when was the last time YOU "had that" Trench?

you got "slack" and yo mama's pudding on Sunday
in your nice, comfortable, familiar surroundings...
you are the lonely little mouse who never left his house
a heart-wrenching tale of regret documenting the 'life of a middle aged British Slacker' on BBC called "In House and OutHouse"
Trench's name has been changed to "Ditch" for the show

Ditch is a nebbish (I'm not sure if I am allowed to say this word)
who is completely unaware that he's a nebish
and it gives him a kinda authentic comedic charm, like the character Zelensky played in his hit movie

a pseudo-Mr Bean
in real life, Rowan Atkinson was like a jar of honey to starving ants for those "intellectual women" (usually with long hair)
so the same person who "played a nebbish" is in reality a top Alpha
just like Zelensky
vrs
someone who is actually a nebbish
sorry...I can't think of anyone off-hand

[Chelseaboy]

No bloke should be desperate to be in a relationship..


There's at least a 50% chance any relationship will break-up anyway,so why would anyone be desperate to go through that ?


I can honestly say the happiest time in my life was when i was single,had bought my first house,and could go out and do what i wanted,when i wanted.

[krimster2]

"when i was single,had bought my first house,and could go out and do what i wanted,when i wanted."

did you WANT to do all the cooking, cleaning, laundry, grocery shopping, etc...
I don't...
so I don't do any of that!!!

I AM FREE from such burdens

I took a tall, strong Ukrainian woman prisoner and she is my captive in the USA
prisoners muct perform labor!  this ain't NO CHARITY I'm runnin here
and as commandant, I have "priviliges" with the prisoner, any time, at my discretion, and do ANYTHING I want
no matter how perverse it might seem

vrs your lounging in your underwear watching "Red Dwarf" on TV single lifestyle and porn
plus I get a tax break!!!

the first thing you teach a Ukrainian/Russian woman is to be obediant to you and never oppose you...
they instinctively know how to "be a wife"
you won't have to teach them that!
there are smart ways to manipulate women into being agreeable, that they're not even aware of
(don't ask me, why should I tell you?)

but such methods are not for poor men anyway Trench

in post war Ukraine, if you had money, you'd just buy a 35-45 foot boat at a marina in odesa
and fly the union jack and a pirate flag
and the pooty tang will all come to you!!
topless cruises in the black sea, their nipples hardening in the breeze, bronze oiled skin
what a life it'd be
ahhhh wellllll

[Chelseaboy]

Seriously Krim,


                      What's the hardship in doing a bit of cooking for yourself ? Plenty of men actually enjoy cooking.


It's really tough having to go to the supermarket once a week eh ?


Where's the hardship in sticking your dirty clothes in a washing machine and hanging them out to dry or sticking them in a tumble dryer. ?


If i don't want to do any cleaning i can bung a house cleaner a few quid and get my place cleaned as i could when i had my first house..it ain't difficult.


I'd rather do that myself than have a woman nagging me to take her to see her family when i'd rather go skiing for the weekend in Italy or diving in the med.


Id fly to Ibiza on impulse for the week,while some of my mates were having to fit a new kitchen in their home,or dragged out shopping for new carpets,three piece suite or whatever on HER orders....fark that nonsense.


How are you gonna cope if your wife should get sick in the future,and you have to look after her ?


Didn't the USA military teach you how to fend for yourself ? The Fleet Air Arm certainly taught me how to be an independent MAN..not having to rely on someone else to look after me.


The relationships i've been in didn't require the women to look after me..i'm capable of doing that myself ....i've never been needy.


I've heard it all now 


Now i know why i see all these blokes with ugly women...they want a housekeeper not a wife..because they're incapable of looking after themselves. 


I remember talking to a Ukrainian hottie a few years back about Ukrainian men,and she was telling me they drive around in nice cars but when you go back to their place they live like animals...and she said why would any woman want a guy like that who can't look after himself let alone look after a woman ?