2nd Time Newbie

[ScottinCrimea]

GOB, excellent post, but you need to consider that some here have earned the right to be called "the annointed ones"  Don't discount the title.  Of course it is up to you INDIVIDUALLY to decide who has earned the right to be called annointed and who hasn't, but some here know others better than you and value their experience and wisdom and choose to endow the annointed title on them.  To label the annointed as those who agree with your opinion and deride those who disagree with your opinion by using the term in a derogatory fashion isn't the proper approach.

Of course some here consider themselves the ultimate authority on certain topics, and they deserve to be questioned.  As for myself. I have no experience with agencies, WMVM vs WOVO, travel in Russia, or K-1's, so I don't consider myself an expert in any way on these topics and I understand if someone takes my opinion with a grain of salt, but on the topics of living in Ukraine, the opinions of the average Ukrainian woman, travel in Ukraine, the CR-1 process, transition of an FSUW to the US, etc. I personally feel that I have some valid ideas to offer and if some choose to label me as "an annointed one, so be it.  If they choose to use the term in a derogatory fashion with me in an area that I feel I do have some significant experience in, to be honest, I will view them as someone who is close-minded and is searching for anyone who will agree with their view, no matter how limited.

[Lee08]

It would be a BIG mistake to try to take a lady out of a big FSI city (and they are almost always big), and put her into small town America.  Culture shock is a big enough factor already, without compounding it with isolation.

I guess your saying that I'm making a big mistake to. ???

Well you don't know me and you don't know her. Doesn't matter if she is a RW.
I don't want to sound rude to you but all women are different and it's possible to find a woman in a big city like Moscow that may like it in small town america. I believe that I did.
I have spent more time with my lady than probably most of you have before you brought them over and that's what it takes to get to know someone.
I'm sorry, I don't have the marriage experience to a RW yet, but I just don't believe the advice about trying to find a woman in the same size town as your own.

[Simoni]

I guess your saying that I'm making a big mistake to. ???

Well you don't me and you don't know her. Doesn't matter if she is a RW.
I don't want to sound rude to you but all women are different and it's possible to find a woman in a big city like Moscow that may like it in small town america. I believe that I did.
I have spent more time with my lady than probably most of you have before you brought them over and that's what it takes to get to know someone.
I'm sorry, I don't have the marriage experience to a RW yet, but I just don't believe the advice about trying to find a woman in the same size town as your own.

Lee, you are exactly right.  I don't know you and my advice cannot generalize to all people.

However, I think the percentages strongly support what I am saying.

And Lee, until you have lived with a girl in the US for a few years, I'll have to take your words with a grain of salt.

Spending time with them on vacations or living with them for three months in their home environments is nothing like living with them in the US. 

I suggest the OP take the advice that most of the married guys here are providing--
"don't move a big city girl to rural USA."

[Simoni]

I don't want to sound rude to you but all women are different and it's possible to find a woman in a big city like Moscow that may like it in small town america. I believe that I did.

But your lady is not "really" from Moscow...  ?
Her roots are much different?

My special lady is from the Krasnodar Region of Russia, but now has lived in Moscow for one year.

Lee, no argument intended.  I'm just saying that you can "take the girl out of the city, but you can't take the city out of the girl."

The OP should stay of out Moscow, St. Pete, Kiev and such if he wants to find someone who will be happy in rural Missouri.  And when you really love someone, you will want them to be happy.

Have a great trip to Moscow, Lee.  I wish you and your lady all the best.

~Si

[Lee08]

But your lady is not "really" from Moscow...  ?
Her roots are much different?

Lee, no argument intended.  I'm just saying that you can "take the girl out of the city, but you can't take the city out of the girl."

My lady is from Moscow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Born there!!!!!!!!!!!! Lived there all her life!!!!!!!!!!
When I made this post last year it was about another woman before I met my current finacee in April 2008. Geezzzz!!!

[Simoni]

My lady is from Moscow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Born there!!!!!!!!!!!! Lived there all her life!!!!!!!!!!
When I made this post last year it was about another woman before I met my current finacee in April 2008. Geezzzz!!!

Super!  LOL 

How things changed between March 2008 and April 2008 for you.

[Makkin]

Hi,

  Kool...Hope your relationship works out and everything is what you both hope for.

Makkin

[Misha]

I suggest the OP take the advice that most of the married guys here are providing--
"don't move a big city girl to rural USA."

I would say it depends on the woman. There is no guarantee that a woman from a Russian village or small city wants to live in rural USA. She may want to marry a foreigner to escape her village and move to a city as she could not afford to move to Kiev, St. Pete or Moscow on her own. Likewise, it is possible that a woman from a large city would prefer a more peaceful life in a small town. Yes, perhaps it will only be a minority of the women in a big city that would be happy in a small town in the USA, but a man does not want to marry the majority of women, just one exception who will be happy with him. 

[Daveman]

My lady is from Moscow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Born there!!!!!!!!!!!! Lived there all her life!!!!!!!!!!
When I made this post last year it was about another woman before I met my current finacee in April 2008. Geezzzz!!!

Lee, no one has suggested that your relationship is doomed to fail.  However, GOB's excellent post above and Simoni's words of advice should simply give you some food for thought.  What would you do, if even after all the "I want to be away from the city", all that stuff - if after 6 months of marriage she states flatly "I don't want to live here?", would you be prepared to uproot and move to a more populated area?  Would you argue with her that you had sent photos and videos so she needs to just deal with it?  What would you do?  Just some thoughts not really requiring answers.  Currently she really has no idea what it will be like. Perhaps she thinks she will love it, but what if she doesn't?  She really has only her imagination to work with in this situation.  Love is wonderful but the phrase that it "conquers all" is an absolute myth.

What the guys are saying is that it's BEST to match your surroundings with hers for the least amount of potential problems (with location), but if you do look/find a mate in a big city (which you have) that you will have some extra preparation and homework to do, and possibly some rough spots in the future to be prepared for in advance.

These are the golden treasures I was sure would come to this thread.  It really is worth taking seriously.

[Simoni]

... it is possible that a woman from a large city would prefer a more peaceful life in a small town. Yes, perhaps it will only be a minority of the women in a big city that would be happy in a small town in the USA, but a man does not want to marry the majority of women, just one exception who will be happy with him. 

That is true.  But why focus your search in a city of millions when you want a girl who will enjoy the country?  Much better to get out of the cities in your search. That way, you won't be looking for an "exception."

Dave says it clearly here...

... it's BEST to match your surroundings with hers for the least amount of potential problems (with location), but if you do look/find a mate in a big city (which you have) that you will have some extra preparation and homework to do, and possibly some rough spots in the future ...

[Lee08]

Lee, no one has suggested that your relationship is doomed to fail.

I know that but I think it's a mistake to tell the OP he doesn't have a chance with a woman in a large city. I did it, so can he.

Misha made an excellent point in the above post. It totally depends on the woman.

 What would you do, if even after all the "I want to be away from the city", all that stuff - if after 6 months of marriage she states flatly "I don't want to live here?", would you be prepared to uproot and move to a more populated area?  Would you argue with her that you had sent photos and videos so she needs to just deal with it?  What would you do?  Just some thoughts not really requiring answers.  Currently she really has no idea what it will be like. Perhaps she thinks she will love it, but what if she doesn't?  She really has only her imagination to work with in this situation.  

Love is wonderful but the phrase that it "conquers all" is an absolute myth.

I have faith and a belief in her that this will never happen. It's all about knowing the person you're going to marry and the commitment you make to each other. I believe true love does conquer all.

[Daveman]

I know that but I think it's a mistake to tell the OP he doesn't have a chance with a woman in a large city. I did it, so can he.

Well I'm not sure what you've actually done thus far. As far as I can see you've found love, and that's nothing to scoff at, but you haven't experienced the reality of moving her to where you are. 

Misha made an excellent point in the above post. It totally depends on the woman.

Indeed he did. And yes it does.

I have faith and a belief in her that this will never happen. It's all about knowing the person you're going to marry and the commitment you make to each other. I believe true love does conquer all.

But doesn't True Love also include the willingness to compromise for your partner's happiness? Just having the belief that she won't have a different outlook after her arrival doesn't make it a absolute future reality.   

Divorce court is full of romantics.  I simply think it's a good idea to blend romanticism with good sense. Be prepared as best you can.

I agree Love conquers Something, just not sure if it's all.    

 

[Diplomacy]

I think about this scenario a lot.  I do not live in a Rural setting, but in the Northern most outpost of the Dallas Metroplex.  Dallas is not New york City, and is spread out.  I am pretty sure if you take the DFW Metroplex it is about the size of my home state of Massachusetts.

I spend time in NYC, and it is closer to the FSU city set up.  A lot of people in NYC will not want to live anywhere but there.  It is different, therefore it is a real consideration in this pursuit.

I hear a lot of comments from FSUW that the Dallas Metroplex is a village in their mind.  That is the reality of the situation.  My friends wife came from the city, and now lives in the burbs of Baltimore.  She is as happy as a clam, but other women in the new environment hate it.

It becomes a matter of compromise, where can you both find happiness.  A happy wife is a happy home.  I find it near impossible to even explain where I live as a reference point in Ukraine. 

If I can not explain it well IMO, then it is only right to take into consideration that a move may be in order.  Even if you can explain, video tape, and photograph your home.  That does not mean you can say that it is the same as living there.

If someone is not happy, they do not need to justify it.  They do need to help each other find a way to be happy.

[Ade]

I know that but I think it's a mistake to tell the OP he doesn't have a chance with a woman in a large city. I did it, so can he.

Misha made an excellent point in the above post. It totally depends on the woman.

I have faith and a belief in her that this will never happen. It's all about knowing the person you're going to marry and the commitment you make to each other. I believe true love does conquer all.

I have to agree with Lee; these sweeping generalisations about a big city girl not wanting to live in a small town are just that, sweeping generalisations. FSU women are just as much individuals as any other and each should be taken as they are not lumped in with these silly stereotypes.

My girl is from a medium sized city of 300,000, and has lived for a number of years in Moscow too and yet she is ecstatic about coming to live in my house 10 minutes drive from the centre of a small town of 25,000. And yes, she's already lived here for 3 months so she's fully aware of what it's like to live here.

I will agree that not all women want to live in a small town and city life and/or apartment life suits them much more but really, making assumptions because they already live in a city or in a rural area is just plain silly.

One thing is for sure though, these things should be discussed and explained before anyone commits to anything, and as far as I'm concerned, Lee has done an admirable job of that.

[Misha]

That is true.  But why focus your search in a city of millions when you want a girl who will enjoy the country?  Much better to get out of the cities in your search. That way, you won't be looking for an "exception."

Because you will be looking for an exception in the small cities and the countryside. The fact of the matter is that no matter where you look a woman moving to a new country will be leaving her home and family. She will be leaving all that is known and comfortable to her. Even if you take the woman from downtown Moscow and put her in downtown Manhattan it still won't be her home. Yes, some things will be more familiar, but it will still be different. It will still require time to adapt and to adjust. That is why I believe you must look at the woman and not the city. Some women are more open to change and you must look for a woman that shares similar goals, interests, values, outlook on life, etc.... I do agree that it might be easier to find an exception in a small city if you are from a small city, but it would me misleading to believe that all women from small cities in Russia want to live in small cities once they arrive in their small cities or "villages" in the USA. 

[ScottinCrimea]

We seem to have two sides here.  The ones who have actually had a RW live with them for awhile with few exceptions are saying it's not impossible, but more difficult to find a RW from a large city who will be happy living in the rural US in the longterm (note I said longterm) and suggest that one be aware of the added obstacles and either avoid them or at least try to understand and prepare for them.

We have several on the other side who have never had a RW come to live with them but are adamant that it doesn't matter because they have spent a few weeks with her and they know her so well, or she has seen photos and videos of where he lives and says it looks wonderful, or in one case because she had an extended vacation of three months with him.

There's just way too much denial here.  There are way too many here in whatever phase of the game who think they are the exception and that their woman or their case is different.  Sure all people and all cases are different, but the general rules still apply and if one thinks he can ignore them out of the belief hope that their love is stronger or their understanding of the situation is somehow better than the ones who have actually been there, he is in for a very rough road.

[Simoni]

Any suggestions?
I live in a small rural community, (4500) about 120 miles south of a major metropolis, (Kansas City) and 35 minutes from an actual city...(joplin)
I think my biggest obstacle i had before, was that i do live in a rural area. And most ladies are more used to larger cities.  Where as, my business and family are here for at least the next 9 years.

Misourri Cowboy asked a simple question above.  He states that in his last romance that his location was a problem, and asks for suggestions.  My advice, and the advice of others, is to look outside of cities where girls are used to an active city life, filled with girlfriends and shopping and movies and dining.  He needs a country girl, IMHO.   But when we advise him to look outside of the city, we get a story or two about girls from the city who love (or will love) rural life.  Missouri Cowboy needs to realize that if he follows the advice of some posters here and looks for a girl in the city, he will be faced with her making an even bigger adjustment.  So, why go there?  There are lots of wonderful girls who live off the beaten path.  Search there.

I think about this scenario a lot.  I do not live in a Rural setting, but in the Northern most outpost of the Dallas Metroplex.  Dallas is not New york City, and is spread out.  I am pretty sure if you take the DFW Metroplex it is about the size of my home state of Massachusetts.

I hear a lot of comments from FSUW that the Dallas Metroplex is a village in their mind.  That is the reality of the situation. 

And you live in the nation's 4th largest metroplex, with almost 6 million people.  http://news.dallaschamber.org/e_article000627438.cfm?x=b11,0,w

That is a far cry from the OPs rural situation.   I do know one fsu girl who lives near you, and she loves the area.  But then again, she came from a Russian city about two hours out of Moscow, so she is used to traveling to get to the heart of things.  I think you will be fine, Diplomacy.  After all, you are very diplomatic :-)  And both of us realize you will have extra work to do to make her happy.

...I think it's a mistake to tell the OP he doesn't have a chance with a woman in a large city. I did it, so can he.

First of all, with all due respect, my advice is to Missouri Cowboy, and not to you.  He has a clean slate, so why not search in areas of the fsu that are similar to the rural area he wants to relocate her to?  Second, I cringe when you say "I did it, so can he."  Congrats to you, but consider these two factors: 1) you have not "done it yet," since she still has to adjust from city life to rural life, in addition to the other cultural adjustments; 2) perhaps you are the exception to the rule?  If so, why force the OP into a longshot with your advice?

[Simoni]

I do agree that it might be easier to find an exception in a small city if you are from a small city, but it would me misleading to believe that all women from small cities in Russia want to live in small cities once they arrive in their small cities or "villages" in the USA. 

This is true of course.  Big cities are full of village girls who want to escape small towns.   Scott has already posted to this effect several pages back.

My point continues to be that if you have a choice in where you search,  and OP does, why not search in a  similar area to where he lives?  There will be enough other adjustments to make; why add missing the crowds and metro and girl friends and movies, etc. to the list?

[Misha]

My advice, and the advice of others, is to look outside of cities where girls are used to an active city life, filled with girlfriends and shopping and movies and dining.  He needs a country girl, IMHO.  

Simoni, the problem that I see is that you are making a a false assumption that city life is filled with girlfriends and excitement in the FSU and village/small city life is dull and unbearable. The fact of the matter is that women in small cities will often socialize more than women in the big cities. It is hard to believe, but even small cities in Russia have some shopping and cafes. Also, most Russians whether they are in villages or the metropolis tend to visit each other at their homes as opposed to going to movies and dining out.

As such, a woman from a small city or town is used to having a circle of friends that she can meet daily. She will also be going out with her friends at the drop of a hat. I would argue that they do this even more than the women in the big cities as meeting friends in big cities requires more time given transportation issues.

Many of the women who work in Moscow commute hours each day, for example. When they arrive home exhausted after a full days work and travelling on the metro, the buses and the trains to distant small cities in the Moscow Oblast, the last thing they want to do is jump back on the train/bus/metro and go downtown to meet some friends 

I do agree with the point that you are making, just critical of your apparent dichotomy which is big city = excitement and small town = dull and dreary. I would say that that the woman from a small town going to a small town in the USA will feel even more alienated than the woman from a big city. She will have left behind quite often a much tighter circle of friends and family than many (not all) women living in the big cities.

[groovlstk]

I must say, I do happen to have a great support system between friends and family here that have stated they would more than welcome a foreign woman, and would do everything they can to make her feel comfortable, and at home here. Such as family socials that are on average 4-5 a year. (where EVERYONE shows up...friends and family) and or anything she might need.  

Just my experience, but you might want to be really careful about lining up a support network and friends for your wife prior to her arrival. She may not know it now, but at some point shortly after her arrival she'll become aware of the extra scrutiny she receives from your friends and neighbors, and it may make her very self-conscious. It would be a wonderful world if people could truly embrace her from the beginning, but there are too many tales of green card girls or abusive, controlling husbands in the public conscience. Like it or not, most people will cast a "wait and see" eye on her and as much as you might want to protect her from this knowledge, she'll eventually understand it and grow tired from the scrutiny.

In our case, my wife felt truly uncomfortable around some of my casual friends. I realize I'm extrapolating but it seemed to me these friends were wary of her intentions or simply disapproved of our union. Whatever the reason, these people are no longer part of our lives.

The best support network for your wife - after you, of course - is giving her the freedom and means to make her own friends. If she truly loves you her friends will be your friends too. IMHO this issue takes on greater importance due to the fact that when she arrives, she'll be totally dependent on you - don't expect gratitude for this, as sometimes you're Public Enemy #1 simply for this very fact. Straddling the line of giving her an environment in which to learn and grow versus being a preachy know-it-all is much more difficult than you may expect.
 

[Simoni]

Simoni, the problem that I see is that you are making a a false assumption that city life is filled with girlfriends and excitement in the FSU and village/small city life is dull and unbearable. The fact of the matter is that women in small cities will often socialize more than women in the big cities.

I do agree with the point that you are making, just critical of your apparent dichotomy which is big city = excitement and small town = dull and dreary. I would say that that the woman from a small town going to a small town in the USA will feel even more alienated than the woman from a big city. She will have left behind quite often a much tighter circle of friends and family than many (not all) women living in the big cities.

Michael, my advice is to the OP, and he does not even live in a small city, but in a rural community.   Read his post... "I live in a small rural community, (4500) about 120 miles south of a major metropolis, (Kansas City) and 35 minutes from an actual city...(joplin):

Having lived many years in a "community" of less than 5,000, I'm well aware of the positives and negatives of this life.  And having dated many fsu women over the past years, I'm also very aware of how they feel about "the village."

I have to disagree with your first point above.  With less than 4,000 people spread over a 50 K area, there likely is much less socialization.  There just aren't as many people of like age and interest to socialize with.

I did not say small town = dull and dreary.   I will say small town = remote and less to do.

Now, if the OP is willing to marry a woman his age (35) who has children, that might help.  But even at that, the children had better be young, or they will miss the city, too.

We will have to disagree on this issue. 

I think it is a no-brainer to recommend to him to search for a woman outside of the big metro areas of Moscow, St. Pete, and Kiev.

[groovlstk]

One element that is also a factor in whether or not she'll be happy where you live is your fiancee's stage in life. A younger woman will likely want to go out more and  she'll get to tap into the sweet vein of envy (this is often not mentioned but never, ever underestimate it's pull) when she tells her friends that she's going to live in Chicago or Montreal or San Francisco. A more mature woman may put less stock in such matters.

[Misha]

I did not say small town = dull and dreary.   I will say small town = remote and less to do.

Have you ever been to a Russian village? Your dichotomy is still false. True, villages can be remote, but that does not mean there is less to do. Yes, there might be less shopping, but there is more to life than shopping   I have known many women in small towns, not women that I dated just friends, that had very busy and active lives. They always had something to do.

Now, if the OP is willing to marry a woman his age (35) who has children, that might help.  But even at that, the children had better be young, or they will miss the city, too.

Everybody will miss something. Even the children of the hypothetical 35 year old woman from the smallest and remote Russian village will miss their village too. Heck, I miss the Russian villages and wish I could visit some of my friends there and go to the banya  

I think it is a no-brainer to recommend to him to search for a woman outside of the big metro areas of Moscow, St. Pete, and Kiev.

Simoni, you are speaking from your experience which is fine. However, what was true for you won't be true for everybody, and likewise what was true for me won't be true for all as well. I simply believe that there are no magic formulas for success and that the one thing that a man must do is truly know the woman that he intents on marrying. The OWW from a big city marrying a woman from a big city is not guaranteed success simply because he looked in the right place.

[Misha]

A younger woman will likely want to go out more and  she'll get to tap into the sweet vein of envy (this is often not mentioned but never, ever underestimate it's pull) when she tells her friends that she's going to live in Chicago or Montreal or San Francisco. A more mature woman may put less stock in such matters.

Not always. Some 50 and 60 year old women are just as obsessed by status. Again, comes back to knowing the woman. A woman who has a need to impress her friends will be like this long before meeting any foreigner.

[GoodOlBoy]

IMHO this issue takes on greater importance due to the fact that when she arrives, she'll be totally dependent on you - don't expect gratitude for this, as sometimes you're Public Enemy #1 simply for this very fact. Straddling the line of giving her an environment in which to learn and grow versus being a preachy know-it-all is much more difficult than you may expect.

Amen Brother.

I caught myself doing this in my relationship.

Russian women EXPECT you to behave like a "Man" and do everything without gratitude.

Actually my wife feels I should be the grateful one, since she came to me.  


GOB