Saved by Mila

[JayH]

I can read your posts perfectly well..and I quote "The only one to blame here is yourself ".

Followed in a later posting by "Nobody to blame for that but himself IMO ".

Seems clear enough to me .

CB -- some her on forum relish the opportunity to repeatedly say how"dumb" guys are. It make them feel content in their "superiority" !! Funny thing is every time I see a post blaming the guy in these situations--I wonder if the same people think a girl is to blame that she got raped because she was dressed provacatively? Maybe when I guy gets get's gets king hit from behind on the street it is his fault-- after all-- he /she did put themselves in the location!!!  It is really such a stupid unneccessary comment that it is hardly worth addressing.

[LiveFromUkraine]

I can read your posts perfectly well..and I quote "The only one to blame here is yourself ".

Followed in a later posting by "Nobody to blame for that but himself IMO ".

Seems clear enough to me .

People make mistakes all the time.  Getting scammed is making a mistake.  You trusted the wrong person.  Take ownership of those mistakes so you can change that behavior to avoid making the same mistake.


Those that don't accept responsibility are the ones that have no control over their lives and are doomed... doomed I tell ya.

[LiveFromUkraine]

CB -- some her on forum relish the opportunity to repeatedly say how"dumb" guys are. It make them feel content in their "superiority" !! Funny thing is every time I see a post blaming the guy in these situations--I wonder if the same people think a girl is to blame that she got raped because she was dressed provacatively? Maybe when I guy gets get's gets king hit from behind on the street it is his fault-- after all-- he /she did put themselves in the location!!!  It is really such a stupid unneccessary comment that it is hardly worth addressing.

Being physically assaulted isn't even close to being scammed.

[JayH]

Being physically assaulted isn't even close to being scammed.

dot dot dot dot == victim in each case

[LiveFromUkraine]

dot dot dot dot == victim in each case

Me handing you money because you look great in high heels  isn't the same thing as some big dude breaking into my house and raping me. 

[JayH]

Me handing you over money because you look great in high heels  isn't the same thing as some big dude breaking into my house and raping me.

OK--let me try again-  in each case they are victims = do not blame the victim is what i am saying.

[LiveFromUkraine]

OK--let me try again-  in each case they are victims = do not blame the victim is what i am saying.

That is like saying don't blame people for doing stupid stuff when they get into trouble.  People do need to take responsibility for their actions. 


It isn't like I can drink and drive but say don't blame me because the bartender kept giving me free booze.  No one forced anyone to drink, in the example I posted, just the same as no one forcing anyone to hand over cash. 


Physical assault is forceful in nature and not even close to the same thing. 


Blaming someone else for your mistakes is a cop-out.  If someone sees red flags and ignores them it is his fault.

[Konfushus]

I think it's most like buying Sea Monkeys

[Faux Pas]

That is like saying don't blame people for doing stupid stuff when they get into trouble.  People do need to take responsibility for their actions. 


It isn't like I can drink and drive but say don't blame me because the bartender kept giving me free booze.  No one forced anyone to drink, in the example I posted, just the same as no one forcing anyone to hand over cash. 


Physical assault is forceful in nature and not even close to the same thing.  Blaming someone else for your mistakes is a cop-out.  If someone sees red flags and ignores them it is his fault.

I'm afraid your logic and reason will fall on deaf ears for the purveyors of victim mentality. They "have" to have someone to blame for their own personal failures. It's much easier and requires no thought to blame someone else.


Chelsea Boy
You seem to gloss over, Baffin wasn't a victim. She didn't knock him in the head and steal presents or cash. He willingly gave it to her. That's his fault. Paint all the pretty picture you wish around it, spray some sweet smelling perfume on it, it doesn't change one invariable fact, he gave it to her.

[LiveFromUkraine]

I think it's most like buying Sea Monkeys

Those Sea Monkeys exploited me with their eager to please attitudes.

[Chelseaboy]

Bernard Madoff was sent down for 150 years in 2009 for scamming people out of money.

He didn't knock anyone on the head,he didn't hold a gun to his victims heads,his "investors" willingly gave him their money.

Like I said before ,fortunately western law thinks differently than some posters on here...the law didn't blame the victims...it blamed the perpetrator of the scam.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Bernard Madoff was sent down for 150 years in 2009 for scamming people out of money.

He didn't knock anyone on the head,he didn't hold a gun to his victims heads,his "investors" willingly gave him their money.

Like I said before ,fortunately western law thinks differently than some posters on here...the law didn't blame the victims...it blamed the perpetrator of the scam.

No, people just got greedy and allowed that greed to dictate their actions.  He broke the law, no doubt about it but that doesn't mean those investors didn't allow their greed to trump their decision making.





An unnamed investor remarked, "The returns were just amazing and we trusted this guy for decades — if you wanted to take money out, you always got your check in a few days. That’s why we were all so stunned.

[Faux Pas]

Bernard Madoff was sent down for 150 years in 2009 for scamming people out of money.

He didn't knock anyone on the head,he didn't hold a gun to his victims heads,his "investors" willingly gave him their money.

Like I said before ,fortunately western law thinks differently than some posters on here...the law didn't blame the victims...it blamed the perpetrator of the scam.

Pul-lease. Baffin had numerous dates and 3 trips IIRC, likely he even got laid. Who are you to say the poon-yanny wasn't worth what he paid? She might have earned every penny. Madoff comparison is a FAIL. He scammed, she traded without Baffins consent perhaps but, he should have paid better attention. He accepts his part in it. You should too

[JayH]

Pul-lease. Baffin had numerous dates and 3 trips IIRC, likely he even got laid. Who are you to say he poon-yanny wasn't worth what he paid? She might have earned every penny. Madoff comparison is a FAIL. He scammed, she traded without Baffins consent perhaps but, he should have paid better attention. He accepts his part in it. You should too

What a ridiculous convuluted conclussion you manage to reach and attempt to attribute something not being said.

[Chelseaboy]

Faux Pas,

Read my post 224 again..I've already said the guys weren't blameless..that  isn't the issue here..you're saying ONLY the guys were to blame,by saying "the only one to blame here is yourself "..you're in self denial about the girls behaviour in all this.

Why anyone would seek to deflect blame away from a heartless, scheming prodating Ukrainian scammer girl is beyond my comprehension.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Pul-lease. Baffin had numerous dates and 3 trips IIRC, likely he even got laid. Who are you to say he poon-yanny wasn't worth what he paid? She might have earned every penny. Madoff comparison is a FAIL. He scammed, she traded without Baffins consent perhaps but, he should have paid better attention. He accepts his part in it. You should too

haha  The sexy accent must have been worth something.


I was heavily into real estate prior to the bubble bursting.  I got out before it happened but I remember talking to a guy who was dead set on purchasing properties in Phoenix to quickly flip.  It was so crazy out there that you could buy a property and it would go up 10% within a month.


It was pretty easy to see where things were going and I tried to talk him out of it.  He did it anyway and the last I heard he was stuck with 8+ properties all purchased at 100% loans and all had a negative market value compared to what he owed once the shit hit the fan.


I don't know how anyone could think he was a victim even if the banks, credit rating companies and mortgage brokers were scamming people left and right.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Faux Pas,

Read my post 224 again..I've already said the guys weren't blameless..that  isn't the issue here..you're saying ONLY the guys were to blame,by saying "the only one to blame here is yourself "..you're in self denial about the girls behaviour in all this.

Why anyone would seek to deflect blame away from a heartless, scheming prodating Ukrainian scammer girl is beyond my comprehension.

Look at it this way, concentrating on how bad the woman is really doesn't change anything.  If you want to avoid these types of situations, in the future, do you constantly blame other people or do you learn from your mistakes.


If you want to go around being a victim all the time you would concentrate on stuff you can't control.  Like the pro dater.  Some of us would rather take control of our lives and see where we made the mistakes so we can't be scammed again.


We all make mistakes.  Some accept and learn from them and others seem to blame outside forces.


Imagine taking responsibility and walking away after you see a couple red flags.  You took the power from the hottie in high heels and stopped being a victim.   Or you can just keep handing over cash to sexy accents.  Your choice but we will make fun of you if you keep making the wrong choice and blaming someone else for that decision. 

[JayH]

Read again..you're in self denial about the girls behaviour in all this.

Why anyone would seek to deflect blame away from a heartless, scheming prodating Ukrainian scammer girl is beyond my comprehension.

CB--I think some of these guys are under the mistaken idea that there is a prize for  who can state the "bleeding blind obvious" the most number of times !!

[Daveman]

CB -- some her on forum relish the opportunity to repeatedly say how"dumb" guys are. It make them feel content in their "superiority" !! Funny thing is every time I see a post blaming the guy in these situations--I wonder if the same people think a girl is to blame that she got raped because she was dressed provacatively? Maybe when I guy gets get's gets king hit from behind on the street it is his fault-- after all-- he /she did put themselves in the location!!!  It is really such a stupid unneccessary comment that it is hardly worth addressing.

Jay, really? you are making the comparison to RAPE?

Here's the thing... whoever spends on women there any differently than he would spend on dating here (other than the commute and place to stay) -- he's choosing to date and spend that way.. why??..  You could get the same thing here - an insincere woman (at least apparently) wanting to go shopping, gimme gimme gimme, pretending to LIKE you, gimme gimme gimme...  why run away from that here but embrace it there?? 

If she drugged him (or cracked him over the head, or let her RM buddies in the door to do the deed and stole his money while he was passed out - that's a legitimate claim to being a victim.  He got used for some cash.  Is that really even remotely a comparison to a rape victim??

Pass me the seamonkeys please...

[LiveFromUkraine]

CB--I think some of these guys are under the mistaken idea that there is a prize for  who can state the "bleeding blind obvious" the most number of times !!

You act like you need help with the obvious.

[Daveman]

Jay, really? you are making the comparison to RAPE?

Here's the thing... whoever spends on women there any differently than he would spend on dating here (other than the commute and place to stay) -- he's choosing to date and spend that way.. why??..  You could get the same thing here - an insincere woman (at least apparently) wanting to go shopping, gimme gimme gimme, pretending to LIKE you, gimme gimme gimme...  why run away from that here but embrace it there?? 

If she drugged him (or cracked him over the head, or let her RM buddies in the door to do the deed and stole his money while he was passed out - that's a legitimate claim to being a victim.  He got used for some cash.  Is that really even remotely a comparison to a rape victim??

Pass me the seamonkeys please...

That was an erroneous assumption on my part.  I don't know that he spent "differently"...


Still, for any traveler,  any man dating over there - the choice to spend or not spend is his.  Now,  I think that's the general gist of what FP is attempting to get across with his off the cuff comment, and that's how I understood it.  Yeah, she gets blame for her part in being deceitful, whatever, but ultimately (hey, have I said this already) he makes the decisions to spend.  If he felt weird about it he should have stopped. According to his own words - he didn't. He just waited to go home or something.

I think the guy did deserve a single tomato, but no more.

[Chelseaboy]

Yes LiveFromUkraine...you made good points.

So many men that go to Ukraine to meet some of these agency girls seem like Rabbits trapped in Car Headlights when they get out there..they know something is wrong,but they keep on trying to justify her behaviour to themselves.

The prodater I met took me shopping in Kiev..first for a designer handbag and when that didn't work..for a fur coat .

My response ? I just stood outside the shops she was in,with an air of total indifference to what she was looking at..she soon got the hint with no offence given or taken on either side.

The problem is though for many men in matters of the heart,they've travelled all that way to meet the siren that lured them there..and they really want it to work,so they'll do whatever they think it takes to get her back to their homes in distant lands..when the reality is she's quite happy where she is thank you and has no intention of living in another country with Mr Gullible.

And yes I had a long chat with an English-speaking Ukrainian agency girl,and she was quite happy to tell me her and her partners in crime consider themselves artful and us foreign guys as gullible.

[missAmeno]

... and us foreign guys as gullible.

Gee, you are gullible!

[JayH]

Jay, really? you are making the comparison to RAPE?

No-- I am not. dot dot dot    dot dot dot-- I said--it is  as in-"blame" the victim for the crime.That is something that happens in rape case eg- she was asking for it because she dressed in such an such a way  . Clearly a nonsense-- as is  blaming the guy for what was in effect-- a scam.

A scam = receiving a benefit under a false pretence.
Now you guys are saying-- he volunteered to spend the money- I agree with that.
But---- he did it because he was encouraged to believe something that was not true ie -- this girl had genuine interest in a relationship.
She had a genuine interest in getting as much as she could out of it-- but none of that was in the same sphere as the guy was!!
CB gave a good example in Bernie Madoff ( btw--his boat is for sale-- no one was allowed to eat on board) !!

[LiveFromUkraine]

Yes LiveFromUkraine...you made good points.

So many men that go to Ukraine to meet some of these agency girls seem like Rabbits trapped in Car Headlights when they get out there..they know something is wrong,but they keep on trying to justify her behaviour to themselves.

Exactly... It is easier to excuse behavior based on culture or she was just so hot.

The prodater I met took me shopping in Kiev..first for a designer handbag and when that didn't work..for a fur coat .

My response ? I just stood outside the shops she was in,with an air of total indifference to what she was looking at..she soon got the hint with no offence given or taken on either side.

Nice.  A lot of people hate awkward moments like this and will relent but you played it very well.  I don't mind awkward moments and would have no problem making her feel even more awkward just for trying to scam me.  haha

The problem is though for many men in matters of the heart,they've travelled all that way to meet the siren that lured them there..and they really want it to work,so they'll do whatever they think it takes to get her back to their homes in distant lands..when the reality is she's quite happy where she is thank you and has no intention of living in another country with Mr Gullible.

And yes I had a long chat with an English-speaking Ukrainian agency girl,and she was quite happy to tell me her and her partners in crime consider themselves artful and us foreign guys as gullible.

I think a lot of guys that go over are not very socially experienced.  That is like lambs to the slaughter.  Luckily there are forums like this and guys like you to help them out.  They are better off hearing the uncomfortable truth here than experiencing it over there.