Older woman, even older man. Any special issues to be aware of?

[55North]

She: Ukrainian. 46.  English teacher, childless, parents deceased. (Her English is not colloquial, having never had anything to do with native EN speakers before, which will be a shock for her, a teacher)

Me:  English. 57.  Childless.  Earn enough to support her, but not enough to travel freely and as extensively as we wish.

We are generally good together domestically.
 
My main concern is for her to find appropriate employment, yet she will have no background with the way businesses work (office temp.), nor will her language skills extend to the minutae therein.  I think she will be depressed on a supermarket checkout.  Wherever she works in the UK, she will be subject to longer hours, and a greater work ethic than at home.  If she was younger, she would have longer to adjust, I imagine.  And, of course, there's ageism, even if it is to be shortly outlawed.
 
I have quite strong (though varied) musical likes, some of which she will never understand, though I have 'introduced' her to them via my iPod.  (OK.  I've long learned not to inflict Frank Zappa on the uninitiated.  )
 
May be there are other issues.  Any advice, warnings, etc.?

[BC]

Sounds pretty realistic to me..

Only aspect I can think of to watch out for is the need for her to be employed.  I would plan on her not working and if she does find a nice job that she enjoys then the better and maybe even support nice little trips and a vacation or two.  One thing that's good is that you can probably fly just about anywhere in Europe at a reasonable cost with Ryanair etc.

Planning for the worst and enjoying when things go better is much easier than planning for the best and being disappointed when things don't happen the way you want or planned.

I would work on keeping her expectations low.

[andrewfi]

Unless she is a lazy or sleepy woman your future experiences will rapidly re-educate you in respect of work ethic. You might this want to re-orient your thinking a tad.

[Turboguy]

I agree with Andrefin.  Some of these gals have a lot stronger work ethic and a lot more tolerance for jobs that are shall I say not high status than gals here. 

Sometimes when you think about things long enough you will fine solutions you did not expect.  Here one FSU woman I know works in a 1 hour photo lab and part time in a superette.  Another tried one job as Christmas help at Penny's, then went to school as a dental assistant and got a job that she likes starting at $ 18.00 an hour.

[55North]

Even I would like a job that starts at $ 18.00 / hour.

[Turboguy]

She lives in San Francisco so that is not quite as much there as it would be here.

[Phil dAmore]

Something to be aware of regarding older FSU women: Women of this age grew up during Soviet time and this has left an indelible mark on their psyche.   They are set in their ways and to expect any significant change is futile. Failure to completely understand this is a recipe for disaster.

Put quite simply: Her thought processes will be quite different from what you may be used to. 

Women of this age tend to have a mindset that there can only be one way of doing anything, and the mere suggestion that there could be alternatives will be construed as criticism.

Example:  Nina (my lady of 5 years) was utterly shocked to discover at the age of 42 that there are indeed other ways of cooking sausages besides boiling them. This little bit of information which I foolishly thought would be well-received instead landed me in the doghouse for close to a week because according to Nina 'I told her she was cooking the sausages wrong'.

Make a note of that:  With women of this age, there is no middle ground.  It's either right or it's wrong.

Women of this age tend to be  frugal almost to the point of absurdity.  While certainly better than the other extreme this does pose it's own peculiar challenges and will spark some of the most interesting conversations such as an extended dialogue on the cost / benefit ratio of single-ply vs. two-ply toilet paper. (But Philusha!  All we have to do is fold it over and it becomes two ply!.... Yes dear, but then we use it up twice as fast and)... you get the idea.

Although I have not encountered this issue it may take a little while for her to grasp the concept of western banking principles such as checking accounts. 

Special note:  Make sure she understands that things like water, gas, and electricity are metered and why it is necessary to shut them off when they aren't being used.

It may be difficult for them to understand the concept that time does indeed have value.

Like many FSU women, women this age do not accept criticism well.  And by not well I mean 'At All'  Pretty much any criticism will be viewed as a personal affront. You have been warned.

They. Will. Argue. About. Anything.

They may hold some strange beliefs relating to medical care, relying on old remedies from the village rather than modern medicine. 

One other thing that you may encounter: (and this applies to FSU women of any age)  When they tell you something, you can pretty much expect that you are not being told everything.  They tend to with-hold a critical piece of information until the last possible minute, the logic being 'It wasn't important until now'.

On the upside, you really don't have to wonder too much about what they will look like when they get older as they are already there.

Good luck!


 

[BC]

IMHE the 'right and wrong' way of doing things may not only limited to women in their 40's+. Parents have passed these qualities to the younger generation.  Same for your criticism.  They may be a bit more flexible but the basics can still be found.  Don't disregard their input though.. I have learned many things.

Frugal.. hmm.. I don't think this trait is always passed on.  It takes a while to get into the comparative shopping mode.. checking multiple sources to find the best deal.

[Wild Orchid*]

I know women who came to Au when they were in their 50-s. So far the biggest concern for you seems to be if she will manage to find a job. May be she will be happy to stay home and be an Avon-lady

[Phil dAmore]

Comparsion shopping is something that they seem to know.  When Nina wants to buy something (which is rare)  she will go to every single shop throughout the city looking for the best price on an item. Oftentimes this is a multi-day process and she will end up buying the item back at the first store she saw it in.

Re-read my comment about them not understanding the value of time.

Speaking of Avon, have you ever wondered how they are able to find so many women who will willingly take orders?

[55North]

Thanks for your comments everybody.  Honourable mention to Phil.
 
I knew there would be a least one who had a list.  I'm pleased to report that I have observed / experienced most of your points, Phil.  Yes, I have already assumed the 'Soviet' influence on her development, and I've got to say, in general I like it.  In a way, it approximates with my youthful upbringing in the 50s/60s (frugality, no family car, food made from fresh, etc.), much of which has stayed with me into comparative affluence.  We can be nostalgic about the Cold War together (younger people don't know what it is to suffer, etc, etc......) 
 
I have already introduced her to British-style meals, and the tasty results of the grill (thanks to O'Briens, Kyiv), but have just bought a book of Ukrainian cuisine (?) for me to develop my personal kitchen skills further. (20 recipes for Borsch! Is that enough?).
 
She is already opening her own current (checking) account, a necessity for remote management of her apartment, but we have put aside for now the concepts of deposit accounts and interest, or borrowing against the equity of a mortgage!  On money management generally, she counts, and moves mentally between 4/5 currencies with a skill that amazes me.  Clearly her future responsibilty, once I've taught her spreadsheeting.
 
I love the point about withholding a critical piece of information  As in.... on the 2nd day of my last visit, she asks whether we can go to Antalya, tomorrow.  Ermm.. what, where, when, how, says I.  I've arranged it with Z., she says. Only $200 (7 days for 2 all in).  I give her the cash, and she goes to see a man on a street corner!  Don't ask, I say to myself.  The holiday was great!  Me of so little faith, and possibly anal-retentive.
 
Talk about folk medicine!  On the other hand, let's not.  She has been blessed with rude health due to fresh fruit and veg and a lot of walking.  It is me that has to change.  Having said that, my own 'family doctor' practice includes a Polish women doctorwhich should encourage her to at least register.  (For my piece of mind.  My mother and grandmothers are both dead!)

I haven't seen an Avon Lady for years.  I'm not sure they're still operating in the UK.  Maybe they know there is no 'lady of the house' these past years.  OK, I give in.  Why are they willing to take orders?

Comparative shopping (and the minutae of competing supermarkets), and location (and use) of genuine markets (as at Kyiv metro stations).  I'm an expert, having lived alone for half my life.  We're as one on that one.  I'll just give her a bus map, and a street map with crosses on it, wind her up and let her at it.  (We have spent a total of 6 weeks together 24/7.)
 
About looks.  Yup.  That's what I thought.   

 

[beattledog]

do what makes your heart and  her happy,

Beattledog

[Phil dAmore]

The Avon thing was sort of a jab at Western women.  Ever known one to willingly take an order?

Avon is big here in Russia.  Even Nina got in on the act. No she isn't making any money at it but at least she gets all of her own stuff for free.

Of course Avon ranks pretty low in the cosmetics pecking order.  How do I know this?  The ex was an Estee' Lauder gal. 

I probably know more about cosmetics, women's gymnastics, and ice skating than any straight man should.

Nice pic of Lilia!

[55North]

Funny that.  I found out from one of L's friends that the parfume of her dreams is EL.  So it's duty-free EL out, and booze back.
 
And Ice Skating!  I have promised her that we can have a satellite TV receiver just so that we can receive ice skating from UA/RU TV.  She can't comprehend why it's not on our TV.  I explained that if it was popular (and therefore profitable) it would be shown.  It's just not popular enough, poor ratings (and no UK contenders).  I have promised this as long as she stops dissing Curling (our no. 1 ice sport).

[PeeWee]

Comparsion shopping is something that they seem to know.  When Nina wants to buy something (which is rare)  she will go to every single shop throughout the city looking for the best price on an item. Oftentimes this is a multi-day process and she will end up buying the item back at the first store she saw it in.

Re-read my comment about them not understanding the value of time.

Speaking of Avon, have you ever wondered how they are able to find so many women who will willingly take orders?

 

I enjoyed and do concur with both of your above posted observations. Almost funny in the telling of it but I have seen some of those behaviors as well.

Peewee

Peewee

[Wild Orchid*]

It doesn’t have to be Avon, it doesn’t have to be check-out either… She might take her time to improve her English and do what she wants to do…

[ECOCKS]

Phil:

Noticed you reading this old thread and looked it over myself. Just felt compelled to say that this is right on the mark for the women in their late 30's onward age group. Should be required reading IMO.

Well done.

Something to be aware of regarding older FSU women: Women of this age grew up during Soviet time and this has left an indelible mark on their psyche.   They are set in their ways and to expect any significant change is futile. Failure to completely understand this is a recipe for disaster.

Put quite simply: Her thought processes will be quite different from what you may be used to. 

Women of this age tend to have a mindset that there can only be one way of doing anything, and the mere suggestion that there could be alternatives will be construed as criticism.

Example:  Nina (my lady of 5 years) was utterly shocked to discover at the age of 42 that there are indeed other ways of cooking sausages besides boiling them. This little bit of information which I foolishly thought would be well-received instead landed me in the doghouse for close to a week because according to Nina 'I told her she was cooking the sausages wrong'.

Make a note of that:  With women of this age, there is no middle ground.  It's either right or it's wrong.

Women of this age tend to be  frugal almost to the point of absurdity.  While certainly better than the other extreme this does pose it's own peculiar challenges and will spark some of the most interesting conversations such as an extended dialogue on the cost / benefit ratio of single-ply vs. two-ply toilet paper. (But Philusha!  All we have to do is fold it over and it becomes two ply!.... Yes dear, but then we use it up twice as fast and)... you get the idea.

Although I have not encountered this issue it may take a little while for her to grasp the concept of western banking principles such as checking accounts. 

Special note:  Make sure she understands that things like water, gas, and electricity are metered and why it is necessary to shut them off when they aren't being used.

It may be difficult for them to understand the concept that time does indeed have value.

Like many FSU women, women this age do not accept criticism well.  And by not well I mean 'At All'  Pretty much any criticism will be viewed as a personal affront. You have been warned.

They. Will. Argue. About. Anything.

They may hold some strange beliefs relating to medical care, relying on old remedies from the village rather than modern medicine. 

One other thing that you may encounter: (and this applies to FSU women of any age)  When they tell you something, you can pretty much expect that you are not being told everything.  They tend to with-hold a critical piece of information until the last possible minute, the logic being 'It wasn't important until now'.

On the upside, you really don't have to wonder too much about what they will look like when they get older as they are already there.

Good luck!

[Turboguy]

Since the original post dug up from the grave was 3 1/2 years old it might be interesting for us if 55North would post an update on how all those concerns and questions worked out over the past few years of marriage to his wonderful lady.

[Lily]

I read Phil's post with great interest, but to me it does not look like a general picture of a 46 yo Russian woman. At that age, they seem to be more individually set than any other group of people.

There are women who hate arguing. There are those who made their first face lifting at that point of their life, and who knows how they will be looking 15 years from now. There are women who will play and learn new things that they think would be beneficial for them to learn. There are women who first open the Bible at that age. There are those who change their life drastically, and are looking forward to their new life, planning and dreaming

[55North]

Blimey, Turbo.  My past coming back to haunt me.   Different lady now.

Some RWD recall.......
 
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=5933.msg106785#msg106785
 
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=7146.msg127120#msg127120
 
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=7246.msg128911#msg128911

Everything generally peachy, though of course, there are ups and downs.   Time to start the run-in for citizenship.  We're thinking or bringing her 80 years old mother across.  She's looking forward to grandchildren Stateside.