PreNups, Trusts, Offshore Accounts & Protecting yourself

[tim 360]

Mr Tiger Paws,

I do beg your pardon,  I have enjoyed your posts.  However,  I did not originally invoke the name of any diety or Darwin whatsoever.  Nor would I.

I originally replied to Frank 2 hours after his post which spoke of the "what marriage was designed for."  I did wonder who designed it.  Curious.

Then Davey piped in to post the GOD and Darwin stuff.  It's all there in the record. 

To castigate me for initiating GOD and Darwin and religions is inaccurate at best.  I have enjoyed many of your posts and agree with much of what you have to say.  Very practical stuff.  But to nail me for starting the GOD stuff...you are incorrect. 

Normally I would challenge you to a duel with pistolas,  but the hour is getting late and the sky is darkening and my aim is probably not what once it was.  And so I will let you go this time,  knowing that you are a man with a good heart and possibly a better aim than mine in the dark.

 

[TigerPaws]

tim 360,

 Nothing personal just trying to nip the issue quickly and you were the last post on the list.

[TigerPaws]

Franks advise is good,

 And in a prefect world we would all have unlimited time and money to do what really should be done but we live in the real world where time and money are finite. So we must do what we have to do should things do terribly wrong but for the most part i do agree with your point.

 

[Frank]

Sorry guys for getting you all side tracked.  My purpose wasn't to preach at you.  I wanted you to be happy and have good relationships without feeling the need to hide things.  For me, pre-nups means you don't trust.  I need to trust completely- all or nothing.  That is why I went in to the issue of knowing the woman you want to marry before you take the leap.  I really know what it feels like to take the leap into what you think is a bowl of strawberries, only to find out it is a bowl of something one of those Kiev dogs left behind.  It kind of feels like stepping into a black hole and falling forever.  Not too good!  Taking a long time to develop a very good relationship with a RW is extremely expensive.  I can tell you all about that!  Not everyone can do that though.  For me is was a necessity.  Incase you wonder, I do respect all of your reasons for your choices.  They are just not mine.

I won't try to keep things stirred up any longer:)  By the way, have a nice day:D

 

[Frank]

[user=62]tim 360[/user] wrote:

Mr Tiger Paws,

I do beg your pardon,  I have enjoyed your posts.  However,  I did not originally invoke the name of any diety or Darwin whatsoever.  Nor would I.

I originally replied to Frank 2 hours after his post which spoke of the "what marriage was designed for."  I did wonder who designed it.  Curious.

Then Davey piped in to post the GOD and Darwin stuff.  It's all there in the record. 

To castigate me for initiating GOD and Darwin and religions is inaccurate at best.  I have enjoyed many of your posts and agree with much of what you have to say.  Very practical stuff.  But to nail me for starting the GOD stuff...you are incorrect. 

Normally I would challenge you to a duel with pistolas,  but the hour is getting late and the sky is darkening and my aim is probably not what once it was.  And so I will let you go this time,  knowing that you are a man with a good heart and possibly a better aim than mine in the dark.

 

Hey tim 360, I liked your post.  Anyway, I don't like dueling.  In fact, I don't shoot in the dark.  However, when I go hunting, I get in some good brush shots:D

Take Care!

 

[Dave_home]

[user=62]tim 360[/user] wrote:

Yo Frank,

No anger here,  a little laughter.  Like Mr. Tiger Paw said,  this thread is about Pre-Nups and financial considerations.  If ya got some religious views you should be posting them on a different thread.  Like just start a religious thread,  thats where it belongs.  Not this one.

Sorry, but marriage IS a religious instition so Yes it is relevant to have God in it!  post, or dont post here it is your choice as well as mine,  I'm not going anywhere how 'bout you? :-) 

[Dave_home]

hahaha,  that is amusing.... you think I'm (looking for RW)? I'm not, and the way for you to know is to go where he hangs out the most:  RWL at St. Johns Malestrom,  and yahoo groups Russian Bride List.   From his posts you can see he is nothing like me.  ,.,. but him and I have had some interesting debates,  Dave

[Dave_home]

[user=62]tim 360[/user] wrote:

Davey Boy,

Thanks a bunch.  Now I can see much more clearly now.  Thanks for your erudite reply.  When bygosh, Jehossaphat,  did your GOD invent marriage?  Wwwwwhhhaaat year, pray tell?  Whats his name?  My total ignorance is embarrassing to say the least.   Ya know Davey boy...once I was blind,  now I can see.  Hey do ya know the song?  Can ya sing it?  Better yet Can ya sing, dance and read the bible at the same time and make a post? 

You're certainly welcome Timmy, always glad to help. :-) 

[Dave_home]

Respectfully Tiger,  you may have started this thread, but you don't control it, moderator Dan does and it  is open for all members who want to comment regardless of their beliefs

[TigerPaws]

 Let me say that if you are thinking about getting a prenup you need to contact an attorney who specialized in such things because each state is totally different in their view of such contracts.

 Protected trusts are a little easier because th basic principal is that you not longer actually own whatever is in the trust, you control it bt do not directly own it.

 Offshore accounts are the most complicated, I favor the Grand Cayman islands for shell corporations, they are inexpensive and easy set up, a local law firm in the Caymans can handle all of the details for less than $300.00 per shell corporation. If you want as near total anonymity as possible then you can nest your shell corporation within a second and then a third shell corporation all handled by different law firms in the Caymans, it is more complicated for you but extremily secure.

 Offshore banking is more difficult, I highly suggest you stay out of central and south America, all of the countries down there take large sums of foreign aid which comes with a lot of strings attached mostly towards stopping the drug traffic and oney laundering. Europe is a far better place I prefer Monaco, to say they are paranoid about security would be a gross understatement and it is still one of the few places you can still get a truly secure numbered bank account. The only issue being is that you will have to travel to Monaco in order to set up the account but after that transfering funds is very easy.

 As for getting your funds into the offshore account once you have established it:

 When you set up your shell companie(s) in the Caymans you also need to set up a transfer banking account into which to funnel those funds you want to move to say Monaco. This account will act as a middle man or men depending on how many shells you decide you want to use, the more the better but remember this greatly complicates things for you (true security is never easy). Once the transfers are complete you money is about as safe as possible and you still have total access to it, of course if your liguid assets are small then this approace might not be for you. Still between a well written prenup and several protected trusts you can secure the bulk of your assets not just from your wife to be but from those ever present blood sucking leeches we call "civil litigation attorneys".

  

[BC]

When you set up your shell companie(s) in the Caymans you also need to set up a transfer banking account into which to funnel those funds you want to move to say Monaco. This account will act as a middle man or men depending on how many shells you decide you want to use, the more the better but remember this greatly complicates things for you (true security is never easy). Once the transfers are complete you money is about as safe as possible and you still have total access to it, of course if your liguid assets are small then this approace might not be for you. Still between a well written prenup and several protected trusts you can secure the bulk of your assets not just from your wife to be but from those ever present blood sucking leeches we call "civil litigation attorneys".

Awful similar, and speaking of 'leeches':

http://www.irs.gov/compliance/enforcement/article/0,,id=105820,00.html

Since the mid-1990s, the IRS has witnessed a proliferation of abusive tax schemes, particularly those with offshore components. Originally those schemes took the structure of abusive domestic and foreign trust arrangements.  However, abusive schemes are evolving into sophisticated arrangements that take advantage of the financial secrecy laws of some foreign jurisdictions and the availability of credit/debit cards issued from offshore financial institutions.

IRS Criminal Investigation (CI) has developed a nationally coordinated program to combat these abusive tax schemes. CI's primary focus is on the identification and investigation of the tax scheme promoters as well as those who play a substantial or integral role in facilitating, aiding, assisting, or furthering the abusive tax scheme (e.g., accountants, lawyers).  Secondarily, but equally important, is the investigation of investors who knowingly participate in abusive tax schemes.

What is an Abusive Tax Scheme?

The Abusive Tax Schemes program encompasses violations of the Internal Revenue Code (IRC) and related statutes where multiple flow-through entities are used as an integral part of the taxpayer's scheme to evade taxes.  These schemes are characterized by the use of trusts, Limited Liability Companies (LLCs), Limited Liability Partnerships (LLPs), International Business Companies (IBCs), foreign financial accounts, offshore credit/debit cards and other similar instruments.  The schemes are usually complex involving multi-layer transactions for the purpose of concealing the true nature and ownership of the taxable income and/or assets.

Form over substance are the most important words to remember before buying into any arrangements that promise to "eliminate" or "substantially reduce" your tax liability.  The promoters of abusive tax schemes often employ financial instruments such as trusts in their schemes.  However, the instruments are used for improper purposes including the facilitation of tax evasion.

I know is a bit off-topic, but just wanted to point out that although it may protect from your RW, don't let the other 'benifits' entice. Think a RW would rather see you in your tailored pinstripe suit rather than that issued broadstripe flirting with the girls next door at Club Fed. Their hats do look kinda cute tho'.. Getting in is not the problem but the exit visa takes a loooong time to process.

[TigerPaws]

BC,

 I never suggested that someone should use offshore accounts and trusts illegally, of course anything can be used for illegal puropses as well for legitimate reasons. My suggestions and recommended actions are simply something that has worked and dose work for me. Everyone is different in their wants, needs and desires for what ever level of protection they deem necessary, as some have said on this forum they do not want or need any protections and that is their right.

 As always I highly suggest whatevery you do as a man in the way of protecting yourself that you should seek out quality legal counsel.

[Dave_home]

Still between a well written prenup and several protected trusts you can secure the bulk of your assets not just from your wife to be but from those ever present blood sucking leeches we call "civil litigation attorneys".

 Tiger,

  just curious,  would these trusts and shell corporations, offshore accounts protect you from various liabilities that may seek to bleed a company you have, or assets you have? could a person  put their assets in these to protect themselves from predators who specialize in seizing people's companies, and assets?, but yet leave them all unprotected from your wife?, or  are they automatically protected from your wife , just the same as any others? thanks Dave

[Dave_home]

 Tiger,

 I was wondering if rich women ever made their  fiance' sign a pre-nup before they got married?

  I saw a movie once where a rich heiress was to marry  a regular joe with nothing by comparison to her, but He was actually planning to marry her with the purpose of "scamming" her money from her, planning for her to have an "accident" and lose her life , leaving him with hundreds of millions she had.   However during the course of his plan (he had other parties to assist him)   He actually fell in love with this girl and changed his mind, but he was afraid his helpers would carry though with the plan for her murder,  and he didn't , or was afraid to tell his fiance' of the plan because she would not want him then, so in the event she would find out,  he did something to "prove he was truly in love with her"  He made up a pre-nup of sorts stating in the event of her death He rejected all her millions, all of it was to go to charities, and nothing to him. The movie is called " Masquerade" starring Rob Lowe,  I think Jennifer Tilly was the heiress.   Anyway do rich women protect their fortunes with pre-nups too?    Dave

[anono]

hi dave, thanks for the note, thought you too were the same because of all this darwin stuff going around..

now i will know there are two religious fanatics here

just teasing!

[TigerPaws]

Dave,

 If you remember the recent "real" Marrage of Brittney Spears, their marrage was not legally finalized for about a week because her lawyers were putting the final touches on the couples prenup. From what I understand she is worth somehere in the 150 mill range so well off women get prenups as well.

 As for allowing your wife access to your trusts and any offshore accounts while protecting your assets from others, that is not a problem. You could even set things up in the event you die or are no longer able to manage you affairs you wife would be able to take over things for you, remember these are basically contracts and you can set them up any way you want. 

 

[Bruno]

Prenups ???

I am very happy... i have no fortune... a little job, enough pay for life... don't need a Prenups...

Only need to protect my heart... just make the good choice in the beginning...

Is it not a bad begin for a relation ... show that you don't trust you future wife ??? If you don't trust her, why you marry her ??? Maybe for her young sexy body ???

And who protect the FSU woman from man... from these who marry one, use it like a slave and after one year, drop her for choose a more young...

I have always think that trust was one basis in love relation and marriage... it seem to me that for a lot of man, marriage is the same of business !!!

[TigerPaws]

Bruno,

 Being that you are not from the good ol USA maybe things are different in you part of the world but in the vast majority of the US a woman can and will get at least half if not more of whatever a man has in a divorce. A prenup may not be romantic and as I have said before they are not for eveyone, still a lot of men here in Amcerica need to seriously look into one otherwise they risk loosing everything to a dishonest woman.

 Again I do not kow the laws in your country but here in America a marrage is viewed by law as a written contract.

[Goombah]

Is it automatically half or does any sense of fairness come into play?  e.g.  Having just gotten divorced, my financial assets are rather well defined.  Would a new wife who divorced me after 2 years (and getting her green card), get half of our combined increase in wealth?  I'd hope a judge would take into consideration that it took 25 years to build the wealth, for which the lady had only been part of the scene for 2.

Kevin C.

[BC]

 Would a new wife who divorced me after 2 years (and getting her green card), get half of our combined increase in wealth?  

Kevin C.

If you refer to half of the combined wealth increase in the 2 year period, quite fair I think.

[Goombah]

Oh, I agree, that would be quite fair.  My concern would be if she got half of ALL of my remaining assets.  e.g.  Leaving me with about 1/4 of what I started with prior to divorcing my first wife.

Kevin

[Dave_home]

 Divorce laws are different from state to state, I know in my state of Indiana it is a "no fault" divorce state,  a man could have amassed a huge fortune before a marriage, and if he married a woman and it ended in only 2 years she is only entitled to "half " of the increase of wealth during the 2 year marriage only..... this is without a pre-nup.   Yes that is fair, but some guys live in states where a judge could award half of a man's entire fortune ( or even more)  regardless if he was married to his wife for a year, or 20 years, it's whatever the judge decides.  I won't beat a dead horse here, my opinion is known already, but anyone can see why guys who want to marry in these states where a judge could go crazy in a divorce and award half, or even much more of a man's life's savings! to the departing wife!  it could cause the victum (husband) to consider doing something to the departing wife, or her attorney! :-) or the judge!  Dave

[Dave_home]

ps. this is really none of our business, but I thought if might be more fair to look at all sides of the matter.  

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[TigerPaws]

Dave,

 Another issue is that the state you are in now may not be the state when a divorce if any takes place, it could go either in your favor or against you. Which is why a man needs to have as much protections in place as he is comfortable with, or to say it a better way how much he is willing to loose should things go terribly wrong for him.

 The first thing to be lost in any divorce is the truth.

[TigerPaws]

Dave,

 I do not mind talking about the protections I have in place but be aware that I have a great deal to protect so I have set up an extensively layerd system which may not be for everyone.

 Our prenup is complicated, if my wife were to divorce before three years she would bascially get nothing except the cost for a one way ticket back to Russia. After five years she would be allowed a yearly payment equal to the national poverty level that increases yearly equal to the rate of inflation until my death. Now after 10 years she could take the same deal as the five year plan or a one time only payment of $100,000 dollars. After 15 years the same deal applies as the 10 year plan except the amount is $125,000. After 20 years the amount increases to $150,000 dollars.

 If we stay together until my demise she will have control with certain provisions of my entire estate which will give her a minimum of $750,00 dollars per year in direct payments. Provisions to the estate agreement are updated every 6 months to a year as I see fit but she is aware of what changes I deem necessary to make.

 In the event of children (and we now have a daughter) certain other provisions were made which are to long and complicated to go into here.

 I hope this give you a small idea of what you can do and still feel you are being in some measure fair to your wife to be.

 Additional protections against a court attempting to seize my assets are the extensive use of protected trusts and a number of offshore accounts.