Russian Women Discussion

RWD Discussion Groups => Scammers and Suspect Agencies => Topic started by: SANDRO43 on April 12, 2006, 06:14:42 AM

Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 12, 2006, 06:14:42 AM
I am particulalry irritated by this form of scamming, i.e. known Russian/Ukrainian/etc. prostitutes who post ads on dating sites under different names, looking for foreign husbands.

They usually make a strategic mistake : even though the name is different, they almost invariably use the same photos (usually the chaster ones), probably to save money.

Since I have a good memory for gorgeous girls (which they often are), it is usually easy for me to spot them.

I have devoted a page of my personal website (bilingual Italian/English) to reporting this particular phenomenon, now with 30+ entries and growing. For those interested, the page address is :

http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco-eng.htm
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: wxman on April 12, 2006, 12:46:46 PM
Link does not work.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 12, 2006, 01:35:33 PM
It cannot be a link on this forum because the site objects to the intermediate blank within the address (i.e. /siti russi/), as you can see below :

http://www.floriani.it/siti russi/doppiogioco-eng.htm/

You will have to use "copy/paste" to feed it to the address bar of your browser. Sorry, not my fault.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: wxman on April 12, 2006, 02:00:02 PM
I cut and paste and still says: The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.

The URL you gave must not be spelled correctly or is misslng some other characters.

 
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Bruno on April 12, 2006, 02:11:28 PM
Quote from: wxman
I cut and paste and still says: [size="2"]The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.[/size]

[size="2"]The URL you gave must not be spelled correctly or is misslng some other characters.[/size]



Try this... a little slow but work :

http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco-eng.htm
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 12, 2006, 02:21:21 PM
Oops, sorry, I was putting a blank that was not really there. I amended my original append, and it appears to be working  now :

http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco-eng.htm
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Ste on April 12, 2006, 04:52:14 PM
[user=986]SANDRO43[/user] wrote:
Quote
Oops, sorry, I was putting a blank that was not really there. I amended my original append, and it appears to be working  now :

http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco-eng.htm


Disgusting, depraved site, do not look, craven
imagery......

Ste

PS Can I book Olga212 with whip but without the mentally-subnormal sheep but I don't mind the cat's rough tongue....


and also Svetalick-03 as a foursome, RVR asked me about this but really I'm not sure about his ventricle No.2 so do you do insurance of any sort?

Let's practise safe sex here on russianwomensex.com and not get infected by any of my many interesting illnesses and huge swollen body parts including my huge massive fat back.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 12, 2006, 07:06:15 PM
Sir,
I'll have you know that you are a knave for suggesting that I delivered anything but my dutiful service to this sex-starved community ! "Insurance of any sort" : forsooth ! I shall send you my seconds,  thirds, and any other number that comes to my mind.

Although you hail from forlorn Manchester, and not from high-class London, take this !

There was a young man from Belgrave,
 who kept a dead whore in a cave.
 He said : "I admit,
 I'm a bit of a shit,
 but think of the money I save !
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Christopher on April 14, 2006, 09:05:00 AM
When I was going through the list I found these two on Hot Russian Brides:
User ID 103389  and Maria75 User ID 168328.  The latter was active on  live chat at the moment.  I let their live hostess know.  I will keep you posted about what they do.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 14, 2006, 09:48:50 AM
Quote from: Christopher
When I was going through the list I found these two on Hot Russian Brides:
User ID 103389 and Maria75 User ID 168328. The latter was active on live chat at the moment. I let their live hostess know. I will keep you posted about what they do.


Christopher, thank for the tip, 103389 a.k.a. Inga/Margarita (with her own hooker's website at
www.margarita2004.fromru.com), and Maria75 User ID 168328 a.k.a. Mila-Maria/Victoria with profile on 1000 Bad Russian Girls. I shall update my page with this new info.

I had to register with Hot Russian Brides in order to verify these profiles, and should not be surprised if I find some additional "double dealers" there.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Christopher on April 14, 2006, 02:34:47 PM
Here is the reply that I received from Patrick Hollidge of hotrussianbrides.com:
Code: [Select]
"Christopher,

Thank you for bringing this to our attention (regarding the ladies on
the
other site).  If you look carefully on some of the images, you'll see
that
many of them are stamped with the copyright symbol from other sites.  
What
the owner of this particular service has done is leeched images from
various
other places on the internet and posted fake profiles on his
prostitution
site.  I've seen this type of thing several times before and
unfortunately
there's not much we can do about it.  In the meantime however, I will
contact the ladies agency and see what she has to say about this.

If you have any further comments or concerns, please don't hesitate to
contact me.  Thanks and have a great weekend.

Patrick Hollidge
Administrator
HotRussianBrides.com
RussianLoveMatch.com"
It makes me wonder when he says there is not much they can do about it.  I would think that they would ban the agency in these kind of cases.  I have wondered for a while if sites like this are the new 1-976 phone sex numbers?  If anyone has some godd suggestion for them I will forward them along with whatever I come up with for a suggestion.  I have already suggested to them that they fake contacting the agency about setting up a prostitution meeting but I have a feeling that they will not do this.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 14, 2006, 03:10:14 PM
Christopher,
I do not know what  specific information you relayed to HRB, since their position seems to be : "our girls' photos were stolen by a hooker site owner and retouched " or something to that effect..

This is clearly ridiculous : hooker sites get their revenue from girls posting their "business" profiles (and in many cases from possible clients trying to set up an encounter), therefore it does not make sense that they should be showing retouched photos of non-hookers, which would yield them no revenue at all and possibly some libel action as well (I do not know FSU legislation on this).

Anyway,  I think you may satisfy your doubts by giving them the address of Inga/Margarita's PERSONAL hooker site, and see what their reaction to THAT is (somebody stealing 103389's photos to set up a WHOLE website ? An elaborate and costly venture by a jilted suitor ?).
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Bruno on April 14, 2006, 03:32:33 PM
[user=986]SANDRO43[/user] wrote:
Quote
[user=812]...103389 a.k.a. Inga/Margarita (with her own hooker's website at
http://www.margarita2004.fromru.com),[/user] and Maria75 User ID 168328 ... (http://www.margarita2004.fromru.com%29,)
A simple technical info... when you type a URL in a post, insert a "space" between the end of URL and the rest of text...

...103389 a.k.a. Inga/Margarita (with her own hooker's website at http://www.margarita2004.fromru.com[/url] ),
and Maria75 User ID 168328 ...
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 14, 2006, 04:18:48 PM
Bruno, thank you for your tip.
Anyway, I tried out that address on Preview and it worked alright for me.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Jack on April 14, 2006, 04:50:49 PM
Damn! 
Well, that eliminates two of my dates planned for next month.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Bruno on April 14, 2006, 04:52:06 PM
Quote from: Jack
[size="3"]Damn!  [/size]
[size="3"]Well, that eliminates two of my dates planned for next month.[/size]
Why ? You will pay for sex... better that pay for nothing with scammer :huh:
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 14, 2006, 05:20:44 PM
Quote from: Jack
Damn!
Well, that eliminatestwo of my dates planned for next month.


Alternatively, you could adopt the idea suggested by my previously-posted limerick :D

Am I right in assuming that the rhyme in its 4th verse was deliberately expunged for its, shall we say, directness ?
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 14, 2006, 05:59:21 PM
Christopher,
I made a quick scan of some 2,200 HRB profiles (about 10%+ of their reported total of 20,503), and recognised another of my "double dealers" : SRoumano (#100725), listed as LANA-SVETLANA on my page (Lana from 1000 Bad Russian Girls : she is still there at http://www.badrussiangirls.com/brgProfileCard.asp?ion=5564 ).

A total of 3 with the 2 you reported. Incidentally, I could also see in passing a half-dozen well-known and long-reported scammers.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: viking on April 14, 2006, 07:32:29 PM
By any chance would Margarita's last name be Shuiskaya? The photos I have look really, really close. If so, she is listed as a scammer on several sites. I will try to post a photo later.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Christopher on April 14, 2006, 08:16:44 PM
Could you pass along all that you have found on hotrussianbrides?  I think that it would be best to tag them with as much as possible and see what happens.  I have a feeling that they know about this an encourage it, but I will not rush to a to hasty of a judgement.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 15, 2006, 05:25:30 AM
Quote from: viking
By any chance would Margarita's last name be Shuiskaya? The photos I have look really, really close. If so, she is listed as a scammer on several sites. I will try to post a photo later.


Viking, I would not know, I never came across a profile giving Margarita's last name.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 15, 2006, 05:32:37 AM
Quote from: Christopher
Could you pass along all that you have found on hotrussianbrides? I think that it would be best to tag them with as much as possible and see what happens. I have a feeling that they know about this an encourage it, but I will not rush to a to hasty of a judgement.


Christopher, I assume you mean the scammers I saw there. I took no notes on them, and, sorry, I am not going to spend other time on that issue. I see no reason to render HRB a service by cleaning out their dirty stables (I am no Hercules :D)
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: jb on April 15, 2006, 06:05:28 AM
Sandro,

I understand your concern about this subject, however, IIRC, this issue has been talked about to death.   I don't remember if it was on this board or the RWG, but Andrewfi brought up this topic a couple of years ago.  As I recall it sparked a huge debate, especially by those older men in denial who were after young hotties, and the thread went on for weeks.  One of the points which was brought out was that many of these girls were making the hotel/nightclub scene at night, and doing the MOB thingy during the day.  Furthermore, the percentage of girls on MOB websites who play-for-pay may be much higher than you can imagine.

Interestingly enough, these same girls were the ones who advertised in their profiles that they would accept the largest age difference in an effort to attract the foreign husband.  Recently TurboGuy talked about a gal in Moscow who raked his wallet pretty good at an expensive restaurant.  I wouldn't be too surprised if she was a girl who had a play-for-pay background as well.  That's the reason I asked how old she was.   But, then again, T/G is an older guy in pursuit of a younger woman.

You pays your money and you takes your chances when you want a trophy wife.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Turboguy on April 15, 2006, 07:04:18 AM
Well jb it does make it more interesting that you usually post things I don't agree with. 

First off, younger gal, yes,  trophy wife, no.  Looks are not very high on my list of priorites.   The image that comes to my mind with the term "Trophy Wife" is young, beautiful and well built.   I am not saying I would throw one back because she happend to be beautiful and well built but it is not something that is high on my list of prorities.   I keep thinking back to Lena whan you say that who would probably be my wife today if I had not tripped over Luda.  Lena was not a particularly attractive gal and as far as figure she had none but had a lot of inner beauty.   And since you mentioned age she was 21 at the time.  I knew you would like that!

I have met a lot of gals who listed wide age ranges and I never had any hint that if I wanted to slip them a c note or two I could have a fun night. 
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 15, 2006, 08:45:45 AM
JB, I could see no previous reference to this topic so, if it was "talked about to death" years  ago, maybe it is appropriate to revive it for newcomers since, in my opinion, it presents a higher danger than normal scammers do.

Anyway, I shall let Dan (moderator) and the other readers put a lid on it, if they decide it is not worth pursuing. You can always skip reading these contributions, if you are not interested.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: jb on April 15, 2006, 11:06:58 AM
Sandro,

No problem as far as I'm concerned, but I'll serve you fair warning, if you begin to suggest that these older middle-aged men are probably getting dates with hookers when they chase after available young hotties, you will be flamed unmercifully.

I do agree with you that it's a huge problem and any time I read about a 50's year old one week wonder and he gets engaged to a 20's something hottie, in less than a week;  I automatically think "hooker".

Good luck .
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Admin on April 15, 2006, 11:32:00 AM
Quote from: jb
No problem as far as I'm concerned, but I'll serve you fair warning, if you begin to suggest that these older middle-aged men are probably getting dates with hookers when they chase after available young hotties, you will be flamed unmercifully.


I hope not. Sandro has done a great job of ferreting out information that is pretty compelling. While it may not be definitive, it certainly sends up some warning flags that guys would be wise to heed.

My $.02.

- Dan
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 15, 2006, 12:43:58 PM
OK then, I think that we are all in agreement that the subject is worth pursuing (Dan, thanks for your accolade).  

JB, I think that possible targets may not be limited to horny 50+ y.o., younger people may be at risk as well.

Therefore, I shall shortly post notice of an update to my "double dealer" page, featuring luscious Elena Mardanova/Angela who recently tried the "airfare scam" on me (granted, JB, I'm 63 and therefore old enough by your standards to be a worthwhile target, but cursed age may also endow a person with a little wisdom and sense of perspective:D. When she asked me for $813 to come visiting, I replied :"Honey, it's just a 4-hours' job for you to come up with that sort of money, I am droolingly expecting you !":P  . No further contacts after that :shock:)
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Turboguy on April 15, 2006, 01:00:20 PM
Quote from: jb
I do agree with you that it's a huge problem and any time I read about a 50's year old one week wonder and he gets engaged to a 20's something hottie, in less than a week;  I automatically think "hooker".

Why in the world would you think that jb.  Green card girl maybe but why hooker? 

I have heard comments that all women are hookers in one way or another but I don't necessarily subsribe to that theory.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: andrewfi on April 15, 2006, 01:26:59 PM
Yup, twas I got e a royal reaming for making suggestions about the motivations of young women and older men.

TG~ At your age any woman in her twenties is a trophy bride in your peer group. Making the somewhat dubious cvlaim that looks are not important is specious at best and from your perspective self deluding. When you are next with your real peers look how many have wives thirty years younger than themselves and realsie what you are seeking...

Be real. many women in the FSU have worked, or do work in what the Americans cal the sex industry. It has been estimated that over 50% of ALL ethnic Russians in Estonia, who have kids, have engaged in commercial sex. Marriage to a self delusional middle aged foreigner can be a delightful retirement package.

It has been suggested, and with justification that a woman earning a decent living as a prostitute is not likely to want or need to marry a foreigner to secure her life. What they do not realise is that hooking is hard work. Finding one john and satisying him is much easier than having many. Also, a woman hitting her thirties is ancient in hooking terms, but young to many midleaged and older self deluders.

That pictures of hookers are on major MOB agencies is hardly a surprise. The crossoever in interests and motivations between hokers and women in MOB agencies is huge -set aside the number of MOB agencies that also offer prostitutes on a different URL. Same software, same business model, same raw material. Makes good business sense.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: viking on April 15, 2006, 01:32:51 PM
When I was in my 30's, living in Manhattan, my apartment neighbor was a drop dead 10+ beautiful girl in her early 20's. She was a 'high priced call girl'. A hooker. We became friends and sometimes I would make her supper and she would hmmm. make me feel good. she was not very good financially And I would help her with her bank accounts. Some $600K. Not bad for a young 20's something.

The point here is that she told me when she hits $1Mil, she is going to quit, move some place different, find a nice guy who doesn't have a clue about her past, settle down and be happy.

So..if you were that guy, what the heck difference would it make? Unless she is ripping you off, what is the big deal?
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: andrewfi on April 15, 2006, 01:49:01 PM
Viking ~ in general terms, I agree with you. In practice though there are problems. If one has spent many years dealing with guys, primarily in terms of their economic value and themselves only in terms of their value as a collection of warm moist orifices then there is usually an imbalance in the personality. (not always, but I would expect to get rich on the outcome of each individual case!)

At best, one might hope to find a woman who devotes her life to her new 'career' and client. Both parties might be satisfied with such an outcome, if the guy was unknowing. But, if he knew, then how will he handle his self esteem? How wil he handle knwoing that he is merely a long term client?

At worst, well, the boards are full of the outcomes of those cases.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Shadow on April 15, 2006, 01:51:53 PM
When going over the double-dealers page it was interesting that in many cases the women put up ads on dating sites under different names. This puts a bomb under Andrefi's theory, as a girl wanting to find a ignorant foreigner would not put herself up under three different names.

On the other hand, Fat Yuri needs a regular suppply of sexy pictures to get his bank account filled. Especially nude or half-nude ones. Nothing strange about him lending a couple of pics from professional sites.

The double-dealer site shows probably a combination of both.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: andrewfi on April 15, 2006, 02:01:00 PM
Why wouldn't she use different names?

It makes much more sense to do so. Of course if a woman is posting herself on a Russian language prostitution site she is not so likley to bother, but if on an English language one, she is much more likely to bother (if she is aware of the power of search engines.) If neive she might not even think about it. Also, if using different names she can readily identify the source of responses and reply accordingly. I do this all the time in my internet work.

Pictures are hard to search on, it takes a good memory, time and diligence. If discovered a woman can simply say she did not want to have her real name publicised and so used pseudonyms.

Most guys do not search by pictures, it takes a particular type to do that.

Shadow ~ the reality is that many women looking for foreign husbands also serve and service both foreign and local guys on a fee paid basis.

 

 
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Shadow on April 15, 2006, 02:07:01 PM
Quote from: andrewfin
Why wouldn't she use different names?

It makes much more sense to do so. Of course if a woman is posting herself on a Russian language prostitution site she is not so likley to bother, but if on an English language one, she is much more likely to bother (if she is aware of the power of search engines.) If neive she might not even think about it. Also, if using different names she can readily identify the source of responses and reply accordingly. I do this all the time in my internet work.

Pictures are hard to search on, it takes a good memory, time and diligence. If discovered a woman can simply say she did not want to have her real name publicised and so used pseudonyms.

Most guys do not search by pictures, it takes a particular type to do that.

Shadow ~ the reality is that many women looking for foreign husbands also serve and service both foreign and local guys on a fee paid basis.

 

 

Andrew, my point is that when you post on DATING site under three different names you will have a hell of a job telling your prospective husband why you gave a false name when applying. ;)
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Admin on April 15, 2006, 02:10:43 PM
Quote from: andrewfin
Shadow ~ the reality is that many women looking for foreign husbands also serve and service both foreign and local guys on a fee paid basis.


Andrew,

I think your closing comment is both a bit cynical and a bit overblown.

When you use the phrase "the REALITY is MANY women," you imply knowledge of a sufficiently large sampling to be able to offer a sense of quantification. Are you, in fact, claiming that?? If so, define your basis.

I think it is correct to say - as Sandro has pointed us towards - there is a "reality" this sort of behavior exists. To suggest that "many women" are engaged in it is something of a stretch - but admittedly, I am picking on just a few of your words.

Still, I am curious as to exactly why you think there are "many women" hookers among the women seeking foreign husbands. Are you merely surmising - or do you have something more substantial?

- Dan
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: andrewfi on April 15, 2006, 02:23:38 PM
How many is many? It certainly is not necessarily a majority! For some, one would be too many. For some cultures anything more than four is many. In practical terms the absolute number does not matter. It is what we do with the knowledge and insights that the knowledge brings that is important. Given that I have no ethical or moral issues and that I am most unlikely to marry a woman who is offering herself through a marriage agency, 'many' is an almost irrelevant concept. For a man with deep moral or ethical issues, who is seeking a wife through a marriage agency, many could be as few as a single woman and for a man who unwittingly marries a woman with a past that he would have avoided if he had knowledge, his experience is ALL women that he married are ex-prostitutes.

A large proportion of the women I have met who are actively interested in foreign guys have been purveyors of commercial sexual release. A large proportion of women that I have met who have been members of marriage agencies have also been available commercially.

A large proportion of the many women I have met who are NOT interested in marriage to foreign guys are NOT purveyors of commercial sexual release.

The pedigree of any individual's matrimonial chocie is almost irrelevant (even if they were aware of the truth.)

Proving a negative is usually impossible, becasuse the issues of sampling get in the way. That a proportion of women seeking foreign husbands are also purveyors of sexual favours is simply a demonstrable truth. The absolute values and definitions of proportion I have to leave to researchers with greater resources and interest than I.

But, for what it is worth, my personal contact and mingling with a general population over several years probably gives me a perspective lacking from one who married a woman offered to him through a marriage agency, but I can symapthise with those who would choose to ignore or reduce the perspective that exposure provides. Simply put, my sample size is alsmot certainly greater than almost anyone here and I would surmise based upon what I have read, that those with similar or greater personal samples would be unlikely to, honestly, gainsay that which I have written.

 
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 15, 2006, 02:31:09 PM
Shadow,
I shall contribute my 2 Liras' worth (sorry, € 0,0001 now) of experience here.

I think that the basic reason for double names is VERY simple, i.e. concealing one's past/current "pro" activity. Not many men are attracted to a hooker for a possible wife, and this is the new role they are looking for, considering the difficulties of their jobs and the fact that the smartest ones realise that they cannot go on forever in that activity, due to competition from younger entries in the field.

I do not think that Fat Yuri may be much involved in this, it is mostly a "survival" and "planning for the future" issue, in my opinion. Or, since I worked 30 years for IBM, a matter of "job rotation" :) :cool:
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Shadow on April 15, 2006, 02:46:37 PM
Once again, note that I am not talking about multiple names on prostitution sites. It is very common for prostitutes not to use their own name for 'work'.

However when a woman is listed under several different names on dating sites with the same pictures questions rise to the truthfulness of it being the woman in question.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: andrewfi on April 15, 2006, 03:00:58 PM
Shadow, as noted above...

Given the relatively low chances of an individual woman achieving success (estimated by some to be in the order of 1 in 20) it behoves them to that which is necessary to maximise the oportunity for success. Using different names and different agencies serves to maximise the opportunity for success. At the very least, other than the practical issues raised above, if a woman has more than one 'identity' she appears, to all intents and purposes to be more than one woman. If a woman was known only by a single 'handle' then even a casual searcher would fast uncover all instances of her appearance on the net and thus there is no real benefit in using more than a single advertising outlet. If she has several names then the searcher has as many chances of coming across her and finding perhaps different photos, different profiles, different marketing strategies as there are identities.

You as an individual may not like the reality that somebody is motivated, but for a woman seeking a foreign husband, this is serious. Of course if we then factor in the commercial interests of the different agencies, they want unique 'product'. Thus they need to use different names. For the woman, the outcome is more important than the man. There may be many acceptable men, but probably, except for the pareto girls, only one single chance to attain her goal of finding the foreign man.

Don't beleive, too stongly, in the concept of romantic love as it applies to women for whom the man is both more (and less) than just a man.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Admin on April 15, 2006, 03:03:36 PM
Quote from: andrewfin
But, for what it is worth, my personal contact and mingling with a general population over several years probably gives me a perspective lacking from one who married a woman offered to him through a marriage agency, but I can symapthise with those who would choose to ignore or reduce the perspective that exposure provides. Simply put, my sample size is alsmot certainly greater than almost anyone here and I would surmise based upon what I have read, that those with similar or greater personal samples would be unlikely to, honestly,gainsay that which I have written.


I guess we have the experience of substantial time in the FSU in common, although I have not lived there as you do. I did, however, spend a great proportion of my time in Ukraine from 1998 through 2002 where I met numerous women - and none were through an agency, per se - though I later learned some of them were listed with agencies. I've continued to meet women in the FSU on trips since 2002, just from a different perspective now.

Perhaps it is just the company we keep is different Andrew, but I do not recall any larger proportion of the women I met in the FSU being in the sex trade than the women I have met in the US. Indeed, the only country where I found an unusually high proportion of hookers among those I met was in Indonesia - and that seemed to be largely semi-pro's - not full-time sex workers.

My point is, simply, your earlier comment seemed an exaggeration when I place it in the context of my own experience with FSU women. While it could be that my sampling is inaccurate - it could equally be that yours is.

I think it should suffice that guys ought to know of the possibility of this sort of thing - and most thinking guys are going to have considered the possibility anyway - and they should be alert to warning flags. Anything more, IMO, breeds an unnecessary paranoia.

It's all about being informed and vigilant, without losing perspective.

FWIW

- Dan
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 15, 2006, 03:05:21 PM
Quote from: Shadow
Once again, note that I am not talking about multiple names on prostitution sites. It is very common for prostitutes not to use their own name for 'work'.


Shadow, sorry, I misread your append. Again in my experience, different names on DATING sites for the same girl are usually due to an ongoing scamming activity (you shall see that forthcoming Elena Mardanova uses 3 different names and ages on her 3 dating sites). So, concealment ("maskirovka"  was a popular concept  in the USSR:cool:) is again the primary motivation.

I think Andrewfin's suggestion of "advanced mail record-keeping" is possible only in a minority of cases, most  of these girls are rather PC-illiterate.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: andrewfi on April 15, 2006, 03:11:40 PM
Dan, it was not I who came up with the figure for the proportions of Russian women who had indulged in commercial sex. Neither you nor I are likley to have the opportunity to research such things, but if anything close to the truth, and iff applicable to other FSu countries, given their economic and social similarities, it would give the lie to your assertion in respect of your experiences. (not that you are telling anything other than your perception of your experiences - most women do not advertise their 'work' although many in their immediate community tend to know what is happening.)

As I noted, in my experience, I know, there is a greater tendency to be interested in foreign guys for marriage among those I know to be, or have been involved in commercial sex than the contrary.

 As I already noted, trying to the prove the negative as you are doing is almost impossible, the converse is simply demonstrable by reference to the empirical data on this board. The ONLY discussion objectively available is the definition of many and that, absent agreement onterms, is, as I demonstrated, pretty much impossible.

Marriage to a relatively well off foreigner is simply a good exit strategy for a woman in the sex trade; along with real estate investment, beauty salons, or marriage to a guy from a relatively distant community.

Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 15, 2006, 03:18:09 PM
Dan, I have never been to a FSU country personally, so my knowledge of the impact of prostitution there is only Internet-derived.

However it  leads me to think that MOSCOW  is really a hot bed for it. The following page on my website :

http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/sitirussipro-eng.htm

lists some 140+ Russian hooker sites with a total of 20,000+ profiles, and the majority of them are Moscow-based. It seems a rather substantial figure, even for a city with millions of inhabitants. SPB has nothing comparable. Also, many SPB hookers usually specify they are quite willing to commute to Moscow for business ;)
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: andrewfi on April 15, 2006, 03:35:02 PM
Just a thought, for what it is worth.

Becsue the end result of a favourable impression upon a potential client in both MOB and prostitution sites is a personal meeting, one might assume that both ahd an equal dependence upon accurate photos (if not bio data) I think that this is not quite the case. In commercial sex the end point is fast reached and thus real pics are probably more important.

At least one sex site www.dosug.nu (http://www.dosug.nu) has an opportunity for clients both certify the veracity of the photos and to review performance. These are both attributes missing from MOB sites, perhaps for obvious reasons. The following link is not entirely work safe:http://findv.com/x.php?1km (http://findv.com/x.php?1km) and has an additonal surprise...

Inessence, if an MOB site was claiming to be hoodwinked, I would be inclined to believe, on the balance of probablilities that the escort site was the original source of the pics; leaving just the choice as to whether to believe the woman is actually a member of the MOB site or not.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Admin on April 15, 2006, 03:38:15 PM
[user=986]SANDRO43[/user] wrote:
Quote
Dan, I have never been to a FSU country personally, so my knowledge of the impact of prostitution there is only Internet-derived.

However it  leads me to think that MOSCOW  is really a hot bed for it. The following page on my website :

http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/sitirussipro-eng.htm

lists some 140+ Russian hooker sites with a total of 20,000+ profiles, and the majority of them are Moscow-based. It seems a rather substantial figure, even for a city with millions of inhabitants. SPB has nothing comparable.


Yeah - my comments were not aimed at the overall state of prostitution in the FSU. My guess is that prostitution is alive and well in most parts of the FSU. I would further guess it is not so widespread in FSU countries as it is in some Asian countries. But who knows?

Elen will probably jump in to tell you that those 20,000 hookers in Moscow are predominantly from Ukraine. But who knows?

And that is my point. We do not know. Not Andrew - not Elen - and not me. All of us are commenting based on a limited set of experiences and with some deductive reasoning.

Does prostitution exist in the FSU? I'd bet a LOT of money the answer is YES.

Do prostitutes join international dating sites? Same answer.

Are there "many" FSU hookers looking to link up with western guys. Same answer. In fact, I suspect that hookers don't care much what passport a guy has - so long as his money is good.

And now the question comes down to - what does a guy do with that information?

My suggestion is to be informed and aware, but do not let it dominate your thoughts or create fear and paranoia. This is just one more bit of data amongst a vast library of data needed to circumnavigate this process successfully. But that is just my suggestion.

- Dan
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 15, 2006, 03:56:09 PM
Dan, I was VERY careful in my statement  :): I said "the majority of them are Moscow-based", not "Muscovites" or "Moscow-born".  So you may reassure Elen, no slander intended for true Russians (1/4 of my blood is Russian, anyway, due to a paternal grandmother :D)

Incidentally, Happy Easter everybody (it's already pastr midnight here)
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: jb on April 15, 2006, 04:55:17 PM
Is there prostitution in Moscow? Yes.
Is there prostitution in all the rest of the FSY? Yes.
Do prostitutes advertise themselves on MOB sites? Obviously yes.

How old are these girls practicing the world's oldest profession?  I did a quick scan of the hooker sites listed here as well as many of the sites linked to the main source, (I can deal with Russian so I might have dug a bit deeper than most), but the average age of the girls listed was between 19 and 24.  Very young and tender morsels indeed.  Many were absolutely stunners.  I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess those aging pros between the age of 25-30 are the gals who would most like to retire to a foreign country where no one knows about their past. 

Perhaps a discussion about what possible red flags to look for would be a constructive direction for this thread to continue.  That they exist within the MOB catalog folds is a given, how to seperate the good from the bad might help the uninitiated searchers.  We do have the good old "Tablets of Stone".  Maybe to rewite or revise a bit?

Just a thought.


Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 15, 2006, 06:29:28 PM
Quote from: jb
How old are these girls practicing the world's oldest profession? I did a quick scan of the hooker sites listed here as well as many of the sites linked to the main source, (I can deal with Russian so I might have dug a bit deeper than most), but the average age of the girls listed was between 19 and 24. Very young and tender morsels indeed.Many were absolutely stunners. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess those aging pros between the age of 25-30 are the gals who would most like to retire to a foreign country where no one knows about their past.


JB, bear in mind that age stated on "pro" sites is very unreliable, for at least two reasons :

1. I don't believe any verification is made by site owners (why should they care ?).
2. Only "age" is shown (and probably requested), never "birth date" as on many dating sites, which use it to recalculate current age when a profile is displayed (on my page I use the two sets of age figures to calculate an approximate "service seniority"). So the age you see is what they gave when they registered at the site, and never updated subsequently.
 
As for specific "red flags", I would venture :

1. Photos : mid to high-level hookers use photos of obvious professional make (poses, lighting, backdrops, studio setting, etc.) which must be costly, so they try to re-use the same photos on dating sites, too. The smartest ones use the less "revealing" shots, nudity-wise, or manage to cut away the more compromising parts. Lower-level hookers usually exhibit cruder, amateur photos taken in their home environment, often posing scantily clad on their beds.  

2. Desired partner age : a young girl looking for a 50+ y.o. hubbie is "mildly" suspect :D, particularly if she is a stunner. This applies to scammers as well.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: andrewfi on April 16, 2006, 12:46:07 AM
Many hookers seem to live in 'dog years'. They get old fast. Some carry on for years, but in general I think you can believe the ages on the websites. The older women often service the foreign punters, we have lower standards.

jb's suggestion about the career path is, IME about spot on, although there are quite a few in their 30's and 40's still seeking a guy. For many passport remains an issue. It offers remoteness, perceived economic benefit and as with ALL the women I have met who are actively seeking a foreign husband, bragging rights among their peers.

Things are not the same as in your home country.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 16, 2006, 04:22:13 AM
I have updated my "Double Dealer" page :

http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco-eng.htm

As anticipated yesterday, it also features hooker/scammer ELENA MARDANOVA who contacted me from  Date Me Free and worked me over very methodically : 19 letters and 30+ photos from 8th January to 24th March 2006, first with a weekly and eventually daily tempo. She was not aware that I knew of her "other" activity. Something of an exception, this girl : her "pro" photos show no nudity at all, and apparently she has none of that type (I asked to make sure).
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: jb on April 16, 2006, 05:56:18 AM
If you look at the other girls listed on your ELENA MARDANOVA's home website, She goes by "ANGELA" for her hooking name there ( http://www.bestrusmodel.com/ (http://www.bestrusmodel.com/) ) they are ALL stunners.  Solid 9's and 10's with all the talent to go with the package.  Pity the poor middle aged AM who falls into this trap and under the spell of the MOB mythology. 

Regarding the age of these girls, I'm not perhaps the best judge of a womans age, assuming a woman wouldn't lie about her age,  but I'd bet not many of them are over 30 y.o.  They all list ages between 20 and 25 with the exception of your cutie, who admits to being 27.  I'll also wager that a little diligence would reveal most, if not all, are also listed on a MOB site somewhere.

However, I'll have to admit that any one of them on a man's arm would turn heads on any street in any city in the world, they are that beautiful.   It's easy for me to see how a man could start engaging in little head thinking when confronted with fantasy and wish fulfillment if he were receiving sweet love letters with such pictures attached.








Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Bruno on April 16, 2006, 06:23:48 AM
Quote from: jb
Perhaps a discussion about what possible red flags to look for would be a constructive direction for this thread to continue.  That they exist within the MOB catalog folds is a given, how to seperate the good from the bad might help the uninitiated searchers.  We do have the good old "Tablets of Stone".  Maybe to rewite or revise a bit?

Red flags !!! Not always easy to see them but people who make list like SANDRO can help...

The women listed in the MOB business and who are hooker don't specialy search to be married... They seek a rich old buzy business man, who have not a lot of time and who is ready to cherish his darling...

With the hookers work, they are only pay each time they fµck the customer... by gaming in the MOB business, they can earn a lot of money for very little work...

Imagine so women who meet a one week wonder... She give to the men all her sexual knowledge during the two last night of the short trip... What happen ? The man is in love, send gift and monthly money... So, women can suck several thousand $$$ from men only because they have sleep together one or two time... more interesting business that the hooker one...

Of course, after a few month or maybe a year, the love buble explode and the women inform the man that she have change her meaning and don't wish marry... so women can have 10 or more sugar dady who send gift and money each month...

With time, they are listed in black list... no problem... new name, new phone, new e-mail, new hair color... some little change and nobody reconize them...

And some MOB business accept so women... why not ? She will receive a lot of letter who mean a lot of translater/e-mail money for the agency... later, the guy will meet her, sleep with her and more leter and money for the agency... If at the end, the men complain about scam... the agency reply : "But Sir, the woman was real, you have visit her, you have sleep with her... we cannot obligate our lady to marry you... it is not a scam, so we don't refund you!"

Like JB have write several time before, if it is too much good for be true, it is almost certainly a red flag...
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 16, 2006, 07:41:08 AM
JB, most girls who post profiles include photos showing them at an earlier age than stated for at least two reasons : looking fresher and more attractive, and saving money on new photos.

And no, I would not say MOST of them are also on dating sites (I would have spotted them if they were  :shock:) : 40 out of some 20.000 is just .05 %, if arithmetic serves me correctly.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: jb on April 16, 2006, 07:45:49 AM
I don't think the ages are that far out of currency simply because these websites are not that old themselves.  The online craze has only swept into the FSU in the past few years.

In any case, I think most men, especially those in our age group, would readily admit they are very lovely women.  Too bad, such a waste.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 16, 2006, 07:56:36 AM
JB, I have been looking at FSU dating sites since early 2003, and some of the girls I saw then are still posting profiles nowadays using the SAME old photos, now 3+ years out of date and looks change rather rapidly in the 20-30 y.o. age range.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: jb on April 16, 2006, 08:01:51 AM
Quote
and looks change rather rapidly in the 20-30 y.o. age range
Yeah, I just hate it when a girl turns 30, her looks have turned to crap and her usefullness is over.

I, on the other hand, am better looking at 60 than I was at 30,,,,, not~! :D:D:D
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 16, 2006, 08:09:08 AM
JB, I did not imply that they necessarily change for the worse :D

Although I must say that I have rarely seen attractive 40+ y.o. (my subjectives tastes, maybe). They seem to deteriorate rapidly after 40, possibly due to lower living standards. On the plus side, usually fine legs (due to not using cars :)?)
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: jb on April 16, 2006, 10:11:23 AM
Quote
Although I must say that I have rarely seen attractive 40+ y.o.
I don't know where you've been looking, but I'm sure my almost 50 y.o. wife would be crushed to hear you say that.  She was a beauty in her 30's and 40's, and she's still a beauty now.  I'm a little more than insulted by that comment.  I assure you, there are plenty of very nice, not hookers, +40 y.o.'s around.

If you are 63 and your tastes run to girls in their 20's, then I'd say you are up against your own demons, borderline sicko.  However, since you say you have not yet set foot inside the FSU there is no way you could know fact from fiction.  How could you possibly comment on "substandard living conditions"?   The truth is that most Russians actually live a more healthy life style and eat much more healthy than those of us living in a so-called developed country.   Better exercise and diet all the way around.

The only experience you have is what we refer to as being a keyboard romeo, you are spending your time for 3+ years cruising the MOB sites and dreaming of how life might be. 

Maybe you need to go find a new hobby.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: ConnerVT on April 16, 2006, 10:25:14 AM
Quote from: jb
The only experience you have is what we refer to as being a keyboard romeo, you are spending your time for 3+ years cruising the MOB sites and dreaming of how life might be. 

Now that's not true, jb.  He also spends a good amount of time on the Russian prostitution sites...
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 16, 2006, 11:52:45 AM
JB
I said in my append that  40+ y.o. FSU women I see on dating sites do not appeal to my subjective tastes. I am surprised that expressing a personal opinion could raise such unwarranted and offensive reactions like "borderline sicko" and "keyboard romeo". That someone should feel "a little more than insulted by that comment" is rather ridiculous. You are entitled to your own opinions as I am to mine.

My other comment on "substandard living conditions" results from several emails and conversations with FSU women. Should I think they were all liars, or bitching unnecessarily ?
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: ConnerVT on April 16, 2006, 12:07:59 PM
[user=986]SANDRO43[/user] wrote:
Quote
My other comment on "substandard living conditions" results from several emails and conversations with FSU women. Should I think they were all liars, or bitching unnecessarily ?
Bitching, or worse, with a motive.

Most people are accepting of their station in life, even when they wish to move to a better lifestyle.  Even middle-income Westerners, aware of how those with more elaborate lifestyles live, would never speak of "sub-standard living conditions."  Even the lowest working class poor show pride in what they've done with their double wide trailer down by the river...
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: andrewfi on April 16, 2006, 02:16:38 PM
[user=140]ConnerVT[/user] wrote:
Bitching, or worse, with a motive.

Most people are accepting of their station in life, even when they wish to move to a better lifestyle.  Even middle-income Westerners, aware of how those with more elaborate lifestyles live, would never speak of "sub-standard living conditions."  Even the lowest working class poor show pride in what they've done with their double wide trailer down by the river...

True that.

If a person starts whining to me about how terrible her life is, I know I am about to get hit up for money, gifts or favours. But I guess that one would have to live it to know it. A person may have a specific gripe about a specific thing, but poverty is relative. A person who tells you that she lives a sh!tty life is after an outside agent to change it, or is such a saddo that you do not want to deal with them.

Whilst I DO tend to agree that women appear to age somewhat faster here than in some other countries it is a small difference and has much to do with the amount of money spent upon the external appearance. In general, I would echo the comments of those who suggest that people tend to live a more healthy lifestyle, overall, than in many other countries. Even here, where alcoholism is often cited as a cause of early death and another cliche reason to seek a foreign husband, this malady is very much income related and is very much a minority, but serious, issue.

Whilst it is interesting to see the crossovers between prostitutes and MOB women, without some personal perspective it hard to draw any real conclusions. BTW, the real figure is, I am certain much higher than your sample would indicate. The number of hookers on internet sites is but a tiny proportion of the population of women who have or currently rent out their orifices. They are probably among the better looking of the women though. I confess wonderment at the motivation that feeds the desire to actively search, log and collate this data - not to mention the correspondence and game playing that goes on as well. Frankly, if a woman wants to marry a guy, I would not be the one who wanted to make the moral judgement implicit in corresponding, game playing and exposing these women who are doing no more than earning a living - a living that is not illegal in their country and not wrong in the opinion of a great part of the society in which they and I live.

Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 16, 2006, 02:33:36 PM
Quote from: ConnerVT
Bitching, or worse, with a motive.
Most people are accepting of their station in life, even when they wish to move to a better lifestyle. Even middle-income Westerners, aware of how those with more elaborate lifestyles live, would never speak of "sub-standard living conditions." Even the lowest working class poor show pride in what they've done with their double wide trailer down by the river...


Let me get this straight : you object to my wording of "sub-standard living conditions", rather than to its substance ("Bitching, or worse, with a motive") ?

Therefore, an expression like "unsatisfactory living conditions" would have been more delicate and acceptable ? How  would you define the fact that these women are depressed and dissatisfied by their working and living environment, and show scarce optimism for their future ? Should their repeated complaint that they are badly mistreated by too often drunken local men be considered  "standard living conditions" ?
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: ConnerVT on April 16, 2006, 02:44:42 PM
[user=986]SANDRO43[/user] wrote:
Quote
Let me get this straight : you object to my wording of "sub-standard living conditions", rather than to its substance ("Bitching, or worse, with a motive") ?

 

I don't have any objection whatsoever.  I wished to make a point that one should question (and likely avoid) people who verbalize their disdain for their position in life.  Andrew obviously understood what I mean, and added to it quite well in the first half of his post above.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: jb on April 16, 2006, 03:10:08 PM
Quote
How would you define the fact that these women are depressed and dissatisfied by their working and living environment, and show scarce optimism for their future ? Should their repeated complaint that they are badly mistreated by too often drunken local men be considered "standard living conditions" ?

May we ask what empirical evidence do you have that such conditions exist? 

I've been to Russia about 20 times, spent many months (cumulatively) in Russia,  I personally know dozens of Russian men and women, I speak sometimes pretty good Russian, and in my current work I interact with Russians and Ukrainians on a regular basis.  I do not know anyone, not a single person, who makes such complaints about their home country.  For the most part they are a relatively happy, well adjusted people in pursuit of their livelihoods with little worry about what possible advantages someone from the West might have over them.  Croatians, by and large are the most negative folks from anywhere in the region, but who can blame them?

Let's see here,,, you have never been to Russia,,, you don't really know any Russians.
You have had a few emails and phone conversations with some scammers and prostitutes, which I believe has left you with some very wrong impressions about Russia and Russians in general.  I agree that there a lot of poor people in Russia who would perhaps like to improve their lot in life, but Russia is not the backwater sh!thole you seem to think it is.  Nor are it's women sitting around waiting for a knight in shining armor to ride up and rescue them.

I think you need to muster up your courage and make a trip to Moscow to check out the sights and sounds of that little backwoods village, better yet go to Saint Petersberg if you can handle a little culture.  It ain't what you think.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Rvrwind on April 16, 2006, 03:56:36 PM
Ditto jb!!!!:)

Really got some learnin' to do this lad does & I kinda figure I might just have a wee bit of experience on the topic.:shock:

RVR-Canadian Cowboy/Agency Owner
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 16, 2006, 04:54:17 PM
JB,
since you appear to have recovered some acceptable manners, I am quite willing to answer your questions.

Empirical evidence is best left to the scientific environment. If you mean direct, personal field experience, then I freely admit I have none and I can accept advice from people who have it, provided it is offered with the intent of helping and not in unjustifiably offending terms.  

However, I must say that my emails and phone conversations were NOT "with some scammers and prostitutes" as you fancifully surmise, but with girls whom I may define "normal" for want of a better term (I hope this word will not raise another debate).  

I am considering the possibility of a trip to SPB in the near future and yes, I am always capable of taking in some extra culture, I am not as narrow-minded as you might think.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Bruno on April 16, 2006, 05:41:06 PM
Quote
I do not know anyone, not a single person, who makes such complaints about their home country.
I agree with JB and it is more true in the case of Russian people... they can be poor and life in low condition when we see then by our own eyes but russian are proud people... they will never say something bad over own country, specialy when they communicate with foreign people... if they make it, it is for try fool you and win some advantage.

I am sure that all the men here, already married with a FSU woman, same if it is from long time, will never try to say bad thing over the country of wife... to much dangerous topic who can lead to very hard argument...

Russian people are more patriote that the big majority of western people...
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: jb on April 17, 2006, 06:59:49 AM
Sandro;

Quote
you appear to have recovered some acceptable manners
You shouldn't count on that.

One of my pet peeves in life is self appointed experts on topics with which they have zero personal knowledge.  I think that describes you.  You have read a book perhaps, or studied some MOB agency websites, e-mailed a few profiles, maybe had some phone contact with a RW or two, but until you've tasted the wine, don't try to tell us how to run a winery.   Before you endeavor to advise, or give advice, on the subject of Russians, and Russian women in particular, I think it would be nice if you had the tiniest bit if real experience and knowledge under your belt.

It's one thing for Andrew to speak of the hookers of Saint Pete, or for me to mention the midnight knocks on my hotel room door in Moscow, but you've never been there to experience any of that.  Until you do, that high horse you are riding seems to have his saddle on backwards.


Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Admin on April 17, 2006, 07:11:24 AM
Quote from: jb
you appear to have recovered some acceptable manners

You shouldn't count on that.

One of my pet peeves in life is self appointed experts on topics with which they have zero personal knowledge. I think that describes you. You have read a book perhaps, or studied some MOB agency websites, e-mailed a few profiles, maybe had some phone contact with a RW or two, but until you've tasted the wine, don't try to tell us how to run a winery.  Before you endeavor to advise, or give advice, on the subject of Russians, and Russian women in particular, I think it would be nice if you had the tiniest bit if real experience and knowledge under your belt.

It's one thing for Andrew to speak of the hookers of Saint Pete, or for me to mention the midnight knocks on my hotel room door in Moscow, but you've never been there to experience any of that. Until you do, that high horse you are riding seems to have his saddle on backwards.[/quote]

John,

While Sandro lacks the in-country experience you do, he most certainly is NOT without some first-hand experience - albeit at a distance.

Just because someone has not crossed the particular hurdles others have, does not render their experiences invalid.

Maybe it is just my reading, and others will disagree, but I did not find Sandro's comments to be arrogant or presumptuous. He offered what he believes to be true - just as you did, and do.

Both positions are valid - though they should remain absent the personal attacks.

- Dan
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: jb on April 17, 2006, 07:59:30 AM
Quote
he most certainly is NOT without some first-hand experience -
Dan,

I saw no first-hand experience in any of Sandro's post.  Everything he's said came from only reading a few websites.  His perception of life in the FSU seems to me to be skewed to the extreme.  He attributes this perception of FSU life to a few girls who tell him how bad their life is, which is usually just a thinly disguised effort to build sympathy and thus trigger the flow of "help" when the next letter arrives telling of the sick grandma in need of expensive medication, the car crash injury, or the need for an urgent operation on mom.

That there are professional girls advertising on MOB agency catalogs is not new news.  In point of fact, many, if not a majority of the members who read this board initally arrived as newbies who were asking a common question; "Am I being scammed?".  They got in contact with these Russian and Ukrainian immoral scam artists via one crooked, flesh-peddling MOB website or another. These women did not appear from thin air, they are part and parcel of the MOB phenomenon.   Those who operate internet scams are little more than low life crooks, and they can be found in any country.  It follows that a woman who will con a man on the internet will also engage in other shady activities.  They are criminals, whores, petty crooks, and con artists, not virginal, sweet, innocent, take-me-home-to-meet-your-mama, kind of girls. 

We try our best to educate the new seekers that at the first sign of the scam they should run as fast as they can away from these women/fat Yuris.   Many wise up, but, sad to say, Western Union still does a brisk business in the FSU with a one way cash flow.

However, this does not accurately describe life in Russia at all.  There are many decent and sincere Russian women who, for whatever reason, are unable to find their other half.  A trip to Russia might open his eyes to the real Russia.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Albert on April 17, 2006, 12:47:32 PM
I am happy to report that GULNARA YUSIPOVA (Case #17 for original URL) will no longer be available.  I am filing papers to bring her to USA as my wife.  Anyway she says it's all a mistake and that she only agreed to those pictures because she was promised a movie contract.

Furthermore, she only does Golden Rain, not all those other things . . . . and she says she doesn't even know how to perform oral sex.  I belive her because she wouldn't even try it with me.

I know she is a good girl and got posted on those sites by mistake.  I know this because her mother told me so herself.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: viking on April 17, 2006, 01:56:27 PM
Dan,

 

Please correct me if I am out of line here, but I think Alberts last post sould be removed. He's talking about his future bride like this on a public forum? Am I being a too conserative here?
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: catzenmouse on April 17, 2006, 02:32:50 PM
Viking,

 That was a smart ass post. And if it is true then they probably deserve each other. :D

Ken
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Turboguy on April 17, 2006, 03:32:53 PM
Well it is too bad she doesn't do oral but at least Albert can get all the golden rain he wants and I am sure we all wish him a lot of it.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: dfb on April 17, 2006, 07:35:53 PM

Albert, it's going to break many men's hearts taking her off of the market.  As the saying goes, when life hands you lemons then you make lemonade, and we hope that she will make plenty for you.  Don't despair about the oral, she may learn that by the time she gets her visa. 

Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Jack on April 18, 2006, 12:14:06 PM
Sandro43, got some bad news for you. PatrickH with Hot Russian Brides says this site was created by a man who tried to use his services and failed. That 95% of the ladies listed on these prostitution sites are completely bogus. You leech the images from other sites, something you can be sued for, and totally fails to list the URLs of the prostitution sites where the women can be found. Patrick says you have no evidence whatsoever that the girls you listed are in fact prostitutes. Lady 168328 is not, nor has she ever been a prostitute, she's not too happy at the allegations being thrown her way. Many of the ladies your accusing of prostitution are preparing to take some form of legal action against you if you do not remove their profiles from your site.
 
Hot Russian Brides member 103389 is from one of their best agencies and they (Hot Russian Brides) should make it clear that were not going to defame a lady simply because someone claims that she's on a prostitution site without actually providing the information.
 
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Jack on April 18, 2006, 12:15:43 PM
PS. Maybe I an get those dates back afterall :D
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Slings_and_Arrows on April 18, 2006, 04:00:40 PM
Well I just read this entire thread... and all I can say is wow...

I'm a relative new comer to this scene... and I'm still very young in age.

I've been backstabbed and heart broken by American women.. and have only heard great things about FSU women...  so I'm trying my luck there.  I have a few leads... but this site does blow me away. 

 

 

I can honestly say that I have been contacted by 2 of those ladies... seeing those photos seriously makes me wonder why the hell I gambling on this..

 

I think for what its worth, the site is a great tool.. and deffo something that noobies should see.  thanks for making the site.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Slings_and_Arrows on April 18, 2006, 04:03:58 PM
FYI, here's a copy of an email I sent to the site admin.

****

dude your site is awesome!!!  I was contacted by number 17 and 32 before...  you have saved me a hell of a lot of time, money and heartache. Thanks!  keep up the good work! :)

****
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: dfb on April 18, 2006, 04:12:07 PM
HRB,

Look at:
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco-eng.htm (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco-eng.htm)
for the web page that the women is listed, including the women's ID number.

Look at:
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco-eng.htm (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco-eng.htm)
for the URL of each web page.

For example, Case 6
From the first web page he lists this info:
Name: Natasha


Age: 26
Site: SPB Girls
Date: 06/04
ID: 1018


From the second web page he lists this info:
No: 135
Name: SPB Girls
Meaning: N/A
Address (URL):
http://www.spbgirls.ru/ (http://www.spbgirls.ru/)
Profiles: 10
Check profile 1018 on SPB Girls: http://www.spbgirls.ru/individ/view1018.html (http://www.spbgirls.ru/individ/view1018.html)
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Jack on April 18, 2006, 04:21:28 PM
dfb, I believe you, it's PatrickH from Hot Russian Brides who says that 95% of what Sandro43 has reported is false. 

 
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Slings_and_Arrows on April 18, 2006, 04:23:37 PM
I think JB makes a very valid point in that not all of these women are scammers.  I think that goes without saying, of course.  We deffo can not and should not discount his expertise in this field. 

I think both the original poster and those who subscribe to JB's point of view have valid points.  Now if we can just wade through the fire here...  I would be interested in hearing more about the warning signs that a gal could be a potential double dealer, and what resources are available to verify this.

You guys almost had it, in saying that the age range for a young hottie goes from 20-60... a few pages ago.  Can we go back in that direction?

 

I'm a total noob here.. and I will hold all of you personally responsible for my success or failure on this quest!! :cool:

Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: dfb on April 18, 2006, 04:23:52 PM
Sorry,

  I didn't pickup on that on the first read through.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: jb on April 19, 2006, 04:37:04 AM
Slings etc.,

Unfortunately I'm pressed for time now, when I return I will post a summary of those things which I would consider red flags.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 19, 2006, 05:27:38 AM
Quote from: Jack
Sandro43, got some bad news for you. PatrickH with Hot Russian Brides says this site was created by a man who tried to use his services and failed. That 95% of the ladies listed on these prostitution sites are completely bogus. You leech the images from other sites, something you can be sued for, and totally fails to list the URLs of the prostitution sites where the women can be found. Patrick says you haveno evidence whatsoever that the girls you listed are in fact prostitutes. Lady 168328 is not, nor has she ever been a prostitute, she's not too happy at the allegations being thrown her way. Many of the ladies your accusing of prostitution are preparing to take some form of legal action against you if you do not remove their profiles from your site.

Hot Russian Brides member 103389 is from one of their best agencies and they (Hot Russian Brides) should make it clear that were not going to defame a lady simply because someone claims that she's on a prostitution site without actually providing the information.


Jack, which site are you referring to ? 1000 Bad Russian Girls ? If it  "was created by a man who tried to use his services and failed", this man must have REALLY been angry with PatrickH, considering he created and maintains a site with 5,000+ profiles :-)

As for his more detailed assertions :

HRB Lady 168328's profile can still be observed TODAY at :
http://www.1000badrussiangirls.com/brgProfileCard.asp?ref=srch&ion=5719&subSearchID=Search+Now
(with a comment saying : "Conventional and anal sex, strip show, relaxing massage")
so any legal action should be directed there, I am merely quoting what is available to all and sundry.

In addition to profiles on Sex World, SPB Girls, Crossroads, 1000 Russian Women Escorts
and Petersburg Escort, HRB Lady 103389 has her own, personal page at:
http://www.margarita2004.fromru.com/
so again any defamation originates from those 5 sites (and her own page, apparently :-) . The information is there, for all who want to see it.

"95% of the ladies listed on these prostitution sites are completely bogus" : repeating a comment I made in an earlier post, why would  pro site owners list financially-unrewarding profiles, and possibly risk legal actions ?

As for the URLs of those professional sites, I am not concealing my sources of information, they are just 2 clicks away : from my quoted page click the "Russ.Dates" button at left, then the "Professionals" button on the resulting new page : this will lead you to the page listing all pro sites and their URLs.  As DFB suggested, manipulating the URL in your address bar to include the profile ID#, will in most cases lead you to the individual profile. I simply did not want to repeat the same, cumbersome information on two different pages : I could have included direct links on my page as well, but that would have involved too much work.
 
P.S.: Incidentally, after re-checking the above URLs, I got a bad cookie and no less than 6 Trojan infections in the registry of my PC, so beware and have Spyware Doctor ready ! :-(
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Patrick H on April 19, 2006, 07:22:12 AM

Sandro43,

I think there needs to be some clarification here.  You are the one created a profile on HRB/RLM and then attempted to give the ladies your personal email address.  I wrote you an email regarding this issue and you've yet to respond.  Needless to say, we've removed your profile completely.  If you are in fact NOT Mr. Floriani, then I apologize in advance.

In that email I also let you know that http://www.margarita2004.fromru.com/ (http://www.margarita2004.fromru.com/)
is not a site dedicated to 103389 but instead houses several ladies, a fact that seems to be lost on you.  Your webpage is nothing but your opinion, it's not based on reality, fact, or truth.  All you've done is troll legitimate dating sites, then looked for the images on prostitution sites.  None of the ladies have EVER approached you for sex, sent you emails asking for sex, or even hinted at the fact that they were "pro's".

All of the ladies you listed on our sites as being prostitutes are in fact totally legitimate women who have never been, nor will they ever be prostitutes.  Is it so crazy that their images were stolen from several legitimate sites and posted as a prostitution site?  No, of course not.  I guess that in this type of world ALL Russian women are guilty until proven innocent. Or even if they are proven innocent, there must be a scammer lurking somewhere under that pretty visage.  The double-standard here is staggering; in theory you want these women to eventually come to a nation of Democracy, yet you refuse to give them the courtesy of most people's basic rights. 

Someone wrote to me, "We find it hard to believe that anyone would post a fake profile for prostitute since they make their money by their looks." Which is in effect wrong. Prostitutes make their money by (surprise) selling sex. If the girl who shows up at the hotel doesn't look like the picture, most men will still accept her services so long as she doesn't have a beard or Adams apple.  There are normally only two reasons that men pay for sex.  #1) They are incapable of "playing the game" and meeting women through conventional means.  #2) They're just too lazy to try and actually court a woman.  What the pimps are betting on is the fact that these men are so desperate that they're not going to question the fact that the woman they ordered isn't the one on the site. 

The bottom line here is that your site automatically brands several of our ladies as prostitutes without any evidence outside of their images appearing on a poorly made hooker sites.  It's also interesting to note that 168328 is also listed in a "personals" paper in your own country.  So you mean to tell me she flies all the way over to Italy just to meet up with a "John"?  As I said in my post on the on the other forum, her brother-in-law is a pretty reputable businessman in Italy and neither one of them are too happy that her images are appearing all over the internet in this fashion.  It doesn't help things when you created a site that has no basis on fact, leeches copyrighted images from other sites, then draw these amazing conclusions that they MUST all be prostitutes because "look right there, her picture is on a hooker site!"

As I stated in a previous posting on the other forum, I have a good friend from school who is a professional model and has appeared in magazines such as FM and Maxim.  Three years ago some of her images were stolen by TRUE dating service, as well as several other less reputable firms on the net. What recourse does she have? None at all. All it takes is a right click on an image, copying the URL, and using a little HTML experience to paste it onto a page.  But no, according to this logic she must be a hooker/porn star/lesbian looking for a mate.....because the internet never lies, right?

It should also be noted that many of these ladies and their agencies are in the process of taking legal action against several of the prostitution sites for defamation of character and various other charges.  They are also toying with the idea of contacting Interpol regarding these activities.  I'm not sure how far that will get them but I wish them the best of luck.  Just because a girl takes racy photos, it by no means proves that she's a prostitute. 

And Jack, it's going to be a great day when you finally get over the fact that our site's name is HOT Russian Brides.   

Thanks for giving me the chance to clean the air on this particular subject.

 

Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: andrewfi on April 19, 2006, 07:54:14 AM
Patrick ~ you are, as ever, an interesting read...

Excuse my confusion. Just how does the fact that a particular site advertises the services of several prostitutes rather than jsut one mean that a featured woman who is also featured on your site is not a hooker? I confess that leap of logic escaped me.

Just how do you KNOW that any of your female clients are not on the game? I recognise the difficulty of proving a negative, but it is you making the claim, not I or, indeed, Sandros.

I assume that your knowledge of Russia, the language and its people is at least as complete as it was a few months ago when you were happy to tell us that none of your prominent business contacts in Moscow had ever heard of leasing (and other bright gems!) and so I can understand that you would not know that many of the prostitution sites have ratings and feedback on the women featured. Whilst it is true that, as ever, in prostitution and the MOB businesses, common in so many ways, bait & switch is not unheard of; the escort sites often offer better means of controlling this issue than most MOB sites.  For example see this page: http://dosug.nu/girl.htm?idgirl=116 (http://dosug.nu/girl.htm?idgirl=116) I don't think this is one of your girls.

отзывы - 4 (responses) Clients give their opinions onthe girl, her appearance, whether the pics are genuine or a good match.
выскажи мнение (express opinion) A forum for users of the site.

If only clients at MOB agencies were as well favoured as the clients of this online hooker catalogue!

Given that it is not entirely normal for MOB sites to publish nude and 'provocative' pictures of their clients, professionally posed and lit, one might legitimately infer that where the same set of pics turns up in two places, that the escort pics are more likely to represent the original set and purpose. It makes perfect sense for the MOB agency to repurpose the content, but non at all for them to initiate the pics.

Earlier in this thread (or some other - I forget) I made a comment that many women in MOB sites were, or had been involved in commercial sex. I suggest that Sandros has demonstrated that this is entirely likely, albeit that his methodology is likely to considerably underestimate the total figure and that one might legitimately question his motives.

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, I am more likely to believe that it is a duck than an an ocean going liner!

Frankly though this is all rather unimportant. You cannot demonstrate in any sensible measure that you do not have hookers, or ex-hookers on your sites and really it does not matter. Most of your clients will never meet each other - your systems ensure it. And, in the end relationships are about people. Not their past profession or hobby. We all have things that we do not tell others, this might well be one of the things about which your female clients might choose to remain shctum!

 
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Patrick H on April 19, 2006, 08:27:06 AM

andrewfin,

Thanks for your reply.  I know that the girls mentioned on our site are not hookers because unlike a lot of people, I choose to believe them first instead of prosecuting them.  This doesn't mean that I'm not skeptical but all one has to do is look at the sheer amount of fraudulent sites out there hosting stolen images to get an idea of how this underground business works.  They post a Ferrari to someone who probably is gullible enough to believe it, then deliver a Yugo. 

It also doesn't hurt that the profiles listed on this "other" site have the personal information completely incorrect, some of the faces are blocked out, and the pictures of our girls are not totally nude.  The mere fact they're in the process of preparing large lawsuits against the prostitution sites more than implies that they're confident that they have a case and are willing to follow through.  I know that 168328 is already talking to lawyers to have these images removed completely. 

To reiterate, there's more evidence to point to the contrary than there is to confirm that they're guilty.  But as I said previously, hearsay appears to be enough these days.

You say, "If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, I am more likely to believe that it is a duck than an an ocean going liner!"  I'm sorry, how does it "walk like a duck" in this case?  Is it because two of them are in bikinis?  I've gone through every single one of their correspondences and not once have they ever implied that they partook in anything close to that kind of lifestyle.  The only link Mr. Floriani has between the two industries are the pictures, nothing else.

You also write:

"Most of your clients will never meet each other - your systems ensure it. "

Please explain that to the 150 men who just signed up to travel.  I'm sure they'll be surprised.

"I assume that your knowledge of Russia, the language and its people is at least as complete as it was a few months ago when you were happy to tell us that none of your prominent business contacts in Moscow had ever heard of leasing (and other bright gems!) and so I can understand that you would not know that many of the prostitution sites have ratings and feedback on the women featured."

Sorry, that wasn't me so I'm not sure what you're referencing there.  As far as the "feedback" goes, show me the guy who is willing to write "Hi, I'm John Doe and I had an absolutely wonderful time with <insert name>!" and I'll show you a site owner who has a great sense of humor and excellent typing skills.

All that I'm saying is that the ladies listed on Mr. Floriani's site and our own have shown enough proof to us that they're not prostitutes, hookers, or scammers (a word that is so misused that it's lost almost all of it's original meaning).  The last thing we want is to have that kind of stigma attached to any of our ladies, so I can assure you that we've gone over every possible detail to make sure that they're on the up and up.

It just amazes me that someone can look at one of these so-called hooker catalogues with their glossy glamour shots and think, "Yep, that's got to be legit.  That's the girl who will come to see me.  Oh but those awful MOB agencies, they're totally fake."

Thanks again for giving me the chance to respond. 



Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Shadow on April 19, 2006, 08:30:12 AM
The owner of 1000badrussiangirls... 

[line]

 Domain Name: 1000BADRUSSIANGIRLS.COM

   Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
      Connie Kern
      249 Scranton St.
      Aurora, CO 80011
      US


[line]

As far as the margarita site, it is dedicated to only one woman. But this is a networked site with crosslinks to many others. It is a subsite of Fromru.com, which is maintained the the Russian Post Office.

Both sites should be easy to close if it can be proven that they put false pictures.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Patrick H on April 19, 2006, 08:34:53 AM
Shadow,

Again, I wish the ladies the best of luck with the legal proceedings.  From experience I know that internet copyright law is very sticky and sometimes hard to enforce.  There is a girl on our site who was listed erroneously on a well-known blacklist site for about a year now.  Her accuser was later jailed in Italy for other crimes, her case debunked, but the owners of the site refused to remove the report. 
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Bruno on April 19, 2006, 08:35:11 AM
[user=1049]Patrick H[/user] wrote:
Quote
All of the ladies you listed on our sites as being prostitutes are in fact totally legitimate women who have never been, nor will they ever be prostitutes.  Is it so crazy that their images were stolen from several legitimate sites and posted as a prostitution site?  No, of course not.

Yes, of course :P

Patrick, how do you explain that on legitimate site ( marriage agency ), the women have only soft picture... and that on the prostitution site, you find not only the soft picture but the erotic/porno one... How prostitution site can have copy picture from legitimate site who don't exist on legitimate site...

The logic way to think is that marriage agency have copy the more soft picture from the prostitution one...
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Patrick H on April 19, 2006, 08:44:00 AM


Bruno,

The ladies that are listed from our sites have no nude photos up.  The only exception is one lady who is showing a little skin at the top, and she's since been removed.  But by this logic, any girl who has a risqué photograph taken absolutely MUST be a prostitute.  It's also important to note that other MOB sites will show all of her pictures, both soft and otherwise, which can then be picked up at random by the prostitution sites.  I specifically remember one lady in the past who had professional nude photos taken for the European equivalent of Playboy.  Those exact pictures (copyright stamped and all) later appeared on a prostitution site that has since been closed down and disbanded.

Again, I'm not speaking for the other sites he has listed, just ours.  We've done our homework on this one and we're fully confident with our position.

Also, we have far more pictures of the ladies than what they post on their profiles.  We simply reserve the right to decide what we want to be displayed based on image size, content, and quality.  We don't, however, have any nude photographs anywhere in our database.

Let's just say for the sake of argument that a girl has some wild nude photos taken five years ago, or even one year ago.  Does that mean that she's automatically prohibited from trying to find someone?

Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Shadow on April 19, 2006, 08:48:45 AM
So you agree that the pictures of the ladies on your site were not stolen and put on prostitution site, as these pictures are not to be found on your site.

Then how did these sites get those pictures ?
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Patrick H on April 19, 2006, 08:53:14 AM
Shadow,

Nice try.  No, what I'm saying is that there's the possibility that a woman took racy photos at one time, had them on another site, and then had them leeched onto a prostitution site.  The ladies provide the pictures for us, we decide what goes up.  If they have "other" photographs, that's not our business.  Almost every single photo of our girls listed on Sandro's site are actually on ours as well. 

Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 19, 2006, 09:17:55 AM
Patrick H

"You are the one created a profile on HRB/RLM and then attempted to give the ladies your personal email address.  I wrote you an email regarding this issue and you've yet to respond.  Needless to say, we've removed your profile completely.  If you are in fact NOT Mr. Floriani, then I apologize in advance."

Yes, I did create a profile in order to view the profiles reported by Christopher,
and tried to pass my email address to one of the dubious cases, in order to see what sort of reaction I would elicit. No problem about no longer having a profile with you.

"In that email I also let you know that http://www.103389.fromru.com/
is not a site dedicated to 103389 but instead houses several ladies, a fact that seems to be lost on you." It is not lost on me that 103389 has a specific page (margarita2004)
on "fromru.com" (belonging to Pochta Ru) where one can presumably build his/her own page as on Yahoo. A malicious act by someone hating 103389 ?

"None of the ladies have EVER approached you for sex, sent you emails asking for sex, or even hinted at the fact that they were "pro's". No, but that is not how a pro usually works : she posts her profile and waits for contacts, she does not initiate them.

"It's also interesting to note that 168328 is also listed in a "personals" paper in your own country. So you mean to tell me she flies all the way over to Italy just to meet up with a "John"?". Yes, this is interesting and also applies to another case on my list (GERTA/ELYA-LISA-NATASCIA). I emailed both of them at Italian ADULT Friend Finder, but received no answer. I cannot tell for sure what this means (investigating possible new markets ? stolen photos ?), but this fact by itself does not disprove her profile on all the other pro sites. She has another Italian-based dating profile as "Morbidosa 38" on Meetic. Maybe you should ask her Italian brother-in-law what she is up to.  

As for your "good friend from school who is a professional model and has appeared in magazines such as FM and Maxim. Three years ago some of her images were stolen by TRUE dating service, as well as several other less reputable firms on the net. What recourse does she have?", let me tell you what happened last February : the profile of
ALINA-IRINA-MASHENKA-NATALIA-NATASHA/SVETA also indicated a couple of family names. Last February I was contacted by a girl with the same name who explained that her profile had been placed on Bride Ru by someone else. She subsequently sent me her photos, including that of her passport page. I was not TOTALLY convinced but, since the matter was doubtful, I removed the reference to her family name.  
 
"many of these ladies and their agencies are in the process of taking legal action against several of the prostitution sites for defamation of character and various other charges. They are also toying with the idea of contacting Interpol regarding these activities.  I'm not sure how far that will get them but I wish them the best of luck."
I am glad to hear this and I wish them the best of luck, too. Please keep me informed, I shall be more than happy to remove any reference to proven defamed ladies from my page.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Shadow on April 19, 2006, 09:54:15 AM
[user=1049]Patrick H[/user] wrote:
Quote
Shadow,

Nice try.  No, what I'm saying is that there's the possibility that a woman took racy photos at one time, had them on another site, and then had them leeched onto a prostitution site.  The ladies provide the pictures for us, we decide what goes up.  If they have "other" photographs, that's not our business.  Almost every single photo of our girls listed on Sandro's site are actually on ours as well. 


 

Now I am really getting confused. So these top ladies of yours, who will attract so many men that they should be married soon, would have been on another site before that allows them to show more racy pictures without success. If they belong to the top of your site, I would expect them to be off the market soon enough and not had to change sites.

 
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Patrick H on April 19, 2006, 10:42:55 AM


Shadow,

You write: 

"Now I am really getting confused. So these top ladies of yours, who will attract so many men that they should be married soon, would have been on another site before that allows them to show more racy pictures without success. If they belong to the top of your site, I would expect them to be off the market soon enough and not had to change sites."

Where are you getting that they were on the "top of our site"?  You're also making a lot of strange assumptions here that have me a bit confused.  When did I ever make those statements that they "attract so many men that they should be married soon"?  Please don't put words into my mouth.

Look, I'm well aware of the distain on this board for our company and that's fine.  But please, let's stick to the topic at hand.  The topic of course being that these few ladies were listed on someone's personal hobby prostitution/scammer site and are in fact innocent of that charge.  All of this other stuff seems to be nothing more than the normal flak that I've read over and over. 

Just for the sake of brevity let me reiterate my point; our ladies listed on Sandro's site are not prostitutes. 

Sandro,

While I appreciate your candor wouldn't it be a nice idea to put at the top of your site, "These are just observations that I've made and by no means factual."  I've seen plenty of anti-scam sites use that disclaimer and therefore save themselves the embarrassment of being totally wrong.  You have absolutely no proof whatsoever that these girls are prostitutes, yet you've tried them before they even make a case.  You're making ASSUMPTIONS based on poorly designed and less-than reputable prostitution sites that have absolutely no credibility.  It even states clearly on your site that all the ladies have done is contacted you on MOB sites with form letters, with no mention of you ever checking the prostitution sites to see if they can confirm that they're even the same person.

 
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 19, 2006, 10:59:29 AM
[user=1049]Patrick H[/user] wrote:
Quote
Sandro,
While I appreciate your candor wouldn't it be a nice idea to put at the top of your site, "These are just observations that I've made and by no means factual." I've seen plenty of anti-scam sites use that disclaimer and therefore save themselves the embarrassment of being totally wrong. You have absolutely no proof whatsoever that these girls are prostitutes, yet you've tried them before they even make a case. You're making ASSUMPTIONS based on poorly designed and less-than reputable prostitution sites that have absolutely no credibility. It even states clearly on your site that all the ladies have done is contacted you on MOB sites with form letters, with no mention of you ever checking the prostitution sites to see if they can confirm that their even the same person.


Patrick H
I have no difficulty in putting a disclaimer more or less like you are suggesting on my page, and shall do so shortly. However, let me say that only SOME of these ladies contacted me from MOB sites (names on an ORANGE background) and, as for "checking the prostitution sites to see if they can confirm that their even the same person ", do you really expect them to answer such a query :D ?
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Bruno on April 19, 2006, 11:18:47 AM
[user=1049]Patrick H[/user] wrote:
Quote
Look, I'm well aware of the distain on this board for our company and that's fine. 

What make you think that these board have some distain to your compagny... maybe one or two people have make some very bad comment...

But what make the board different and not easy for some is that several of the member are able to use the main brain... not the little one between legs... story about prince and princes don't work here, we are adult people...

Quote
The ladies that are listed from our sites have no nude photos up.  The only exception is one lady who is showing a little skin at the top, and she's since been removed.
Ok, let see the picture of your 103389... Are the below picture on your site ?

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/19579552724067c50b8048e.jpg)(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/margarita2x.jpg)(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/margarita3x.jpg)

Quote
It's also important to note that other MOB sites will show all of her pictures, both soft and otherwise, which can then be picked up at random by the prostitution sites.
It seem to me that the Sandro site make the difference between picture find on MOB site and prostitution site... Always more soft on MOB that on prostitution...

Quote
Again, I'm not speaking for the other sites he has listed, just ours.  We've done our homework on this one and we're fully confident with our position.
Me too, i am speaking of your 103389 girl.. homework, position :shock: What do you mean, have you try them :P

Quote
Also, we have far more pictures of the ladies than what they post on their profiles.
Ok, let say that you have the full set of pictures... How a other site have can steal picture that you don't post... Maybe you go say that they have thief your own office !!!

Quote
Let's just say for the sake of argument that a girl has some wild nude photos taken five years ago, or even one year ago.  Does that mean that she's automatically prohibited from trying to find someone?
The problem is not there... Myself, i am ready to accept a previous prostitute like wife if she agree to never make these job again... The past is the past and cannot be changed, my regard is fixed on the present and the futur...

The point is who steal photo of who... The point is about agency who don't allow exchange of contact information, who write letter for lady and use picture of sexy lady for attract the wallet of customer... Of course, it is what i think, maybe i am wrong but it can be one of the reason why a MOB business thief profile from prostitution site... And until now, your post only allow me to think that i am right...


Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Patrick H on April 19, 2006, 11:20:17 AM
Sandro,

I appreciate it and respect the fact that you're willing to make such a change.  But don't you see the flaw in the process when you don't confirm? 

I know a lot of guys will roll their eyes at this but when we told one of the ladies about her profile being on one of these sites she completely broke down.  Those of you who are already married to RWs should think about it for a moment; she joins a legit site trying to find someone, then a year or so later someone tells her that her face is on a prostitution site promising all sorts of wild sexual favors for money.  What do you do? 

Sure some of those listed on your site may partake in that industry but what about the ones who don't?  There were several pictures you listed, in both orange and read, that were not racy or pornographic at all.  Cases 23, 30, 33 (ours), 35(ours) are perfect examples of this.  Case 35 (Svetlana) is actually a very wealthy business woman in Moscow who was cast to be in one of our promotional videos.  She's been interviewed by our staff numerous times and is probably one of the more high-end ladies on the site.

In any respect, I'm sure we can agree that this problem does exist.  It's just important to realize that when you accuse someone of something such as prostitution, it's important to have all the facts straight.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Patrick H on April 19, 2006, 11:37:33 AM

"The point is who steal photo of who... The point is about agency who don't allow exchange of contact information, who write letter for lady and use picture of sexy lady for attract the wallet of customer... Of course, it is what i think, maybe i am wrong but it can be one of the reason why a MOB business thief profile from prostitution site... And until now, your post only allow me to think that i am right..."




Bruno I'm not even sure how to respond to that kind of logic.  We don't allow the exchange of contact information for several reasons, all of which have been beaten to death on both message boards.  We've never ever written on behalf of the women and I challenge you to prove otherwise.  But to say that WE stole the photos, sir that is absolutely laughable.  If you want to believe that, it's your prerogative.  Misguided sure, but it's your prerogative.  We have a five person graphics department and the idea of us leeching .jpg's from a prostitution site is absolutely amazing to me. 

And for the record 103389 was removed by her agency that moment they saw the nude photographs.  But I guess in this bizarro world, that must mean they're in on the game too. 


 

"Ok, let say that you have the full set of pictures... How a other site have can steal picture that you don't post... Maybe you go say that they have thief your own office !!!"

I'm not sure in how many languages or different ways I can put this, but I'll try to make it simple.    Woman has numerous photographs taken in a professional studio, some classy and some racy.  She then approaches legitimate MOB service and gives them the classy photographs and posts the other photographs on another MOB site that allows the racy ones.  Somewhere down the line a prostitution site comes along and says, "Hey, she's hot.  Let's make a profile of her and sell it."  Lady then finds out that she's somewhere in Italy selling sex while she freezes at home in Moscow. 

It's interesting that you're so hung up on who stole the photographs and not the fact that they don't imply anything about her profession at all. 

 

"Ok, let see the picture of your 103389... Are the below picture on your site ?"

I'm not going to hotlink to our images but you can see ours on the left on Sandro's site.  The only thing on our site that she shows is her neckline.



"What make you think that these board have some distain to your company... maybe one or two people have make some very bad comment...But what make the board different and not easy for some is that several of the member are able to use the main brain... not the little one between legs... story about prince and princes don't work here, we are adult people..."


There's a really great thread somewhere on this board where several agency owners take a childlike joy in the fact that we may have gone out of business or that David was fired; both of which are of course false.  I'm not going to repost it because it's pretty distasteful behavior and I don't want to start any unnecessary arguments.  Needless to say, it's also interesting to point out that not too long ago someone posted a thread about a fairly large MOB service actually LISTING a girl as a prostitute or "Escort" and the fallout was tepid at best.  In fact, I think everyone began defending the MOB service. 

Curiouser and curiouser...



Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Admin on April 19, 2006, 12:31:03 PM
Patrick,

First, let me welcome you to RWD.

As you noted, there has been some exchange here in the past which addresses your company, and it is always good to be able to hear things "from the horse's mouth" - so to speak.

I want to also point out that I certainly understand your sensitivity to this particular topic and welcome the fact that you are here to offer additional perspective. I do not, however, recall seeing anyone taking a "childlike joy" over the prospect of HRB's demise - though some hard questions were raised IIRC.

Nonetheless, I think you will find RWD to be a pretty decent place where people are generally able to speak their minds, and most will not hesitate to challenge conventional thinking and point out logic fallacies.

On this particular topic, it is my opinion that Sandro has done little more than to stumble onto some rather sordid practices and he made those practices known by exposing what seems (to me, at least) pretty logical and straight-forward conclusions. It is not clear, and I do not see Sandro claiming it *is* clear - as to culpability or veracity, he is merely exposing material found elsewhere. My own read on this was that I tended toward believing it was the girls themselves who probably posted on multiple boards - though I can see the motivation for other avenues of information being posted.

I think the learnings from this are:
Perhaps you see something else - and if so, please add your perspectives.

- Dan
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 19, 2006, 01:08:23 PM
[user=1049]Patrick H[/user] wrote:
Quote
Sandro,
I appreciate it and respect the fact that you're willing tomake such a change. But don't you see the flaw in the process when you don't confirm?


Patrick,
how on earth could I do that ? I repeat what I said before, do you seriously expect a pro site owner to answer a query such as : "Hey, is your girl #XYZ really a hooker ? I think she might be a decent girl, please investigate and report !"
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Patrick H on April 19, 2006, 01:10:49 PM
Dan,

Thanks for the welcome and actually I agree that Sandro's site is making some valid observations about a problem that does exist.  My problem came from the fact that there was no disclaimer of any kind stating that these were just observations.  It says in no uncertain terms "Below are cases of professionals with profiles also on dating sites, usually giving totally different names for obvious reasons of concealment."  In my view there's no speculation there, it's being presented as fact.

I think the bulk of my frustration came from the fact that many took it to be totally correct and have gone so far as to actually accuse us of stealing the images.  But again, perspective is everything and mine is a bit skewed because of  the company I work for. 

The thread that I brought up is: http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/forum11/701-3.html (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/forum11/701-3.html)

To be honest, the reason I found it so disturbing was the simple fact that many of those who then pounced on the opportunity to mock us were business owners...owners who have not given others a chance to critique their own companies yet go out of their way to bash ours at every turn.  In my opinion it's simply unprofessional behavior and speaks volumes of the men who are making those statements.  I'm all for open critiques so long as they don't get personal and they are both fair and balanced.  People might not like our policies or the way we work but by constantly slamming us in a somewhat juvenile fashion (HOT Russian Brides) they're showing their inadequacies. 

 

I know that it will be shrugged off as PR but I have said this many times before; I would never ever partake in a business that was in any way unscrupulous or crooked.  I've quit jobs in the past because I didn't agree with their business practices and can say with all certainty that we run a tight, clean ship.  Have there been bumps in the road?  Of course, but David, myself, and the rest of the staff go out of our way to make sure that the agencies we work with are on the up and up.  Any time we encounter a problem or accusation such as the ones presented here, we drop everything and investigate immediately. 

You're absolutely right that there are agencies using shady practices that we might not know about, but here's the thing- we're watching them every day and the moment something happens that might compromise the validity of our service, we cut them off completely.  When we were told about the ladies being on prostitution sites, we deactivated their profiles, talked to them extensively, and removed the one that presented even the smallest potential for problems. 

 

Again, I greatly appreciate the chance to address these issues.  Forums like this are a wonderful place for people to get information and exchange ideas and criticisms. 

 

 
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Patrick H on April 19, 2006, 01:17:40 PM
[user=986]SANDRO43[/user] wrote:
Quote
[user=1049]Patrick H[/user] wrote:
Quote
Sandro,
I appreciate it and respect the fact that you're willing to make such a change.  But don't you see the flaw in the process when you don't confirm?

Patrick,
how on earth could I do that ? I repeat what I said before, do you seriously expect a pro site owner to answer a query such as : "Hey, is your girl #XYZ really a hooker ? I think she might be a decent girl, please investigate and report !"



 

Sandro,

No offense but if it's too much work to check your facts before labeling someone as a hooker, perhaps you should find a new hobby.  What you're essentially telling me is that it's far easier for you to automatically label someone as a hooker than it is to actually do some work and find out if it's true.  This kind of thinking gave us a little gem called IMBRA- speculate first, investigate later.....or in this case never.

"do you seriously expect a pro site owner to answer a query such as : "Hey, is your girl #XYZ really a hooker ? I think she might be a decent girl, please investigate and report !""

Honestly I don't expect anything from people like that (Prostitution site owners).  What I do expect is that if a man is going to go through the trouble of writing code for a scam site, posting pictures, trolling MOB sites for clues, that he also take just a little time to make sure he's doing the right thing by checking his facts.  You could have contacted us at any time, you could have contacted any of the MOB sites that you listed and asked them, "Hey, is your girl #XYZ really a hooker?" because I can assure you that if they were worth their salt they'd drop everything and find out for themselves.  In fact, your exact response to someone's request for this was, "I took no notes on them, and, sorry, I am not going to spend other time on that issue. I see no reason to render HRB a service by cleaning out their dirty stables."  I mean, if you're not willing to take that one extra step to inform the MOB agency itself how do you expect these kinds of things to stop happening?

As I said, your site identifies a problem that does exist but unfortunately it falls short of doing anything but posting racy pictures and making unsubstantiated accusations. 


Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Rvrwind on April 19, 2006, 01:59:41 PM
Day of Days Patrick!!! I have in the past been not so kind towards your company & as a competitor it was something I should not have indulged in & for that I apologize right here right now. I won't say I agree with your system or your methods totally but we all have our own ways of conducting buisness & I cannot say that because yours are different they are wrong.

Under the current circumstances on the question that is raised here I find myself steadfastly in your corner. Not something you thought you would ever see, LOL. Although I know nothing of the ladies in Sandros post & have not visited his site or yours I have however found myself in this very situation.

A lady here in Tver, a very attractive lady whom I am very good friends with through my wife, was listed with another agency here in Tver that is known for taking somewhat sexy photos. No nudity or really explicit stuff, just sexy. About 6 months after her photos were posted on thier site they also turned up on a porn site in Moscow offering sex for money. Now I know for a fact & will stake my life on the fact that this lady is not & never has been a prostitute. She merely was searching for love & bingo, winds up on a porn site. She was devistated. She eventually with my wife & my encouragement sued the porn site for slander & leeching her photos. She won,  but the experience has turned her off & she has quit the agency she was with & refuses to join another, even mine. Although she fully trusts me & loves me like a brother she does not trust the internet.

This is really an unfortunate thing that these lowlifes ruined her life for a few hundred bucks. Chances are she will marry a Russian guy now & that too is unfortunate as she is a great lady, very attractive & would be a great wife. The hard facts are their are a lot of sleazy lowlife operators out there & the sooner the law starts making them accountable, the better I say.

Personally prosecution isn't good enough but what I'd like to see done I cannot say on the board as Dan would never let me back on again. Suffice to say, remember the movie Diliverance, oink, oink...

RVR-Canadian Cowboy/Agency Owner
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Bruno on April 19, 2006, 02:15:36 PM
[user=1049]Patrick H[/user] wrote:
Quote
Bruno I'm not even sure how to respond to that kind of logic.  We don't allow the exchange of contact information for several reasons, all of which have been beaten to death on both message boards.  We've never ever written on behalf of the women and I challenge you to prove otherwise.  But to say that WE stole the photos, sir that is absolutely laughable.  If you want to believe that, it's your prerogative.  Misguided sure, but it's your prerogative.  We have a five person graphics department and the idea of us leeching .jpg's from a prostitution site is absolutely amazing to me. 

And for the record 103389 was removed by her agency that moment they saw the nude photographs.  But I guess in this bizarro world, that must mean they're in on the game too. 

Both message boards ??? Do you post on antidate ? These forum and antidate are the only two i use... Patrick, my goal is not destroy you business by saying that you are bad... and now, you have finaly give a good reply... 103389 was a black sheep and you have remove her... So, yes, it can happen that some of your lady are not honest... this don't make a agency bad... a bad agency don't remove the bad profile... you have remove it, this is a very positive point for you...

I have rule myself two agency in the last 10 year... i have the honor to say that i have always try have a low rate of scammer, GCG, sex holliday girls, hoocker... but it was never a 100% secure... always some have go trought control and in this case, it was customer who have help me to detect the bad girls...

The graphics department and the no need to leech photo wake-up new question... what do you think of these girl...

(http://www.love-from-russia.be/blender.jpg)

Sexy young lady... can be make by a graphics department... render with blender... Sorry member of RWD, these girl don't exist... fully artificial with the help of 3D program... a good graphics department can make a videoclip without problem... all like a real woman...

Patrick, i don't say that you use some artificial girls... but it can be a usual method for scam in the near future... picture are not a problem now, only a few hours render on a normal PC... but for video, you need a computer farm for render... but what in a few year... same video chat will not be a secure way...

My point is that nothing can replace a face to face meeting and that technology is only a help for scammer... why thief picture when you can easily create one who is realistic...

 
I'm not sure in how many languages or different ways I can put this, but I'll try to make it simple.    Woman has numerous photographs taken in a professional studio, some classy and some racy.  She then approaches legitimate MOB service and gives them the classy photographs and posts the other photographs on another MOB site that allows the racy ones.  Somewhere down the line a prostitution site comes along and says, "Hey, she's hot.  Let's make a profile of her and sell it."  Lady then finds out that she's somewhere in Italy selling sex while she freezes at home in Moscow. 

In the case that i have follow, the 103389... these lady have first begin post on prostitution site in 2004... only few month later, she have post on MOB business....

Sorry if i keep speak of one lady already removed but make research ask time and i have limited time... so, i have only make control for these... your other lady's listed on the Sandro site don't follow the same path... picture on the prostitution site is the same that these on your site, usual photo's...

So again, i repeat that all is right since you say that the bad one is removed... but it also imply that some bad girls can be register on your site, same if it is for a short time... I have no problem with this since no one agency is bullet proof at 100%... i only don't agree that you have never have prostitute on your site... it can happen and all is right if your correct it... nobody is perfect, not i and not your... reconize that mistake or error are possible is something normal...


It's interesting that you're so hung up on who stole the photographs and not the fact that they don't imply anything about her profession at all. 

Because i can care  about the profession...  For me, a prostitute  is a women like other...  I have know several prostitute like friend when i was in the Navy... Several of them have a boyfriend, have child, have good character, are kind... simply a difficult life have lead them on these profession...  They are not evil, they are human like us...  The difference between a hoocker and a bitch is that the first one ask money and the other make it free... why the first will be more bad that the second one...  So, it is way i feel no problem  with the profession of these girls...

There's a really great thread somewhere on this board where several agency owners take a childlike joy in the fact that we may have gone out of business or that David was fired; both of which are of course false.

It is way i have say that almost nobody here are against you exept maybe one or two guy... I am here long enough and i have good memory... i remember the several post about you from Jack... and maybe a few from other... but what are these few members if we see the whole membership, almost 1000 people...
Quote
Thanks for the welcome and actually I agree that Sandro's site is making some valid observations about a problem that does exist.  My problem came from the fact that there was no disclaimer of any kind stating that these were just observations.  It says in no uncertain terms "Below are cases of professionals with profiles also on dating sites, usually giving totally different names for obvious reasons of concealment."  In my view there's no speculation there, it's being presented as fact.
Please, Sandro site is the first one i know who is related to MOB and prostitution... It is a younfg site, make by a amateur like a hobby... give him some time to become a mature project... of course, he can make mistake ( and i hope repair it when he realize that he is wrong )... but these new tool is a alarm for several newbies... for inform them about a potential danger... and the danger in itself is not the work of the women but the lie about her actual/previous work... a young very sexy cute FSU woman can maybe have know more men that a professional prostitute... but if she lie now, she can lie later...

Quote
No offense but if it's too much work to check your facts before labeling someone as a hooker, perhaps you should find a new hobby.  What you're essentially telling me is that it's far easier for you to automatically label someone as a hooker than it is to actually do some work and find out if it's true.

:shock: How do you wich that he check the fact... for each girl, a trip to russia, fuck her and see if she ask money after the night together ? He only report lady listed on MOB agency and on prostitution site... The fact that women are listed on both can be see by the link he post... He never say that somebody is a hooker but it show that somebody is listed on MOB agency and on prostitution site...

If yourself make a list of the people who have murder other the last 10 year, do you ask these to murder you for check if you are right or do you trust the police record... i agree that almost all the criminal say that they are not guilty but do you believe them ?

Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Patrick H on April 19, 2006, 02:25:28 PM
Rvrwind,

I honestly appreciate your support on this issue.  Though our respective businesses may not see eye to eye I'm sure that a lot of us can understand that these women ultimately suffer with this kind of situation.  We can all agree that there are pro's running around out there taking advantage of the system but there are also a lot of wonderful ladies just trying to find the right person.  This kind of pratice is not only wrong, it puts all of the industry in a bad light, not to mention the men who are trying to legitimately using it.  When the good ladies get thrown into the wrong pile it can ruin someone's life.

Thanks again.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Patrick H on April 19, 2006, 02:38:02 PM
Bruno,

I don't know, she looks pretty fake to me.  You can tell by the way her body is contrasted against the background, that and the fact that she looks like a robot. 

But to make my answer short, this is why we require a passport photo and a second form of photo ID (if possible) before we let any lady register on our site.  Yes those can be faked but you're hard pressed to find an agency in Moscow or Ukraine with the technology available to make a 3D rendering.  Believe me, we've seen some tricks that agencies try to pull and they're not subtle at all.  They might have been amazing in 1993 but with our software we can see right through them. 

I appreciate your response nonetheless.

 
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Bruno on April 19, 2006, 02:38:21 PM
Quote from: Rvrwind
A lady here in Tver, a very attractive lady whom I am very good friends with through my wife, was listed with another agency here in Tver that is known for taking somewhat sexy photos. No nudity or really explicit stuff, just sexy. About 6 months after her photos were posted on thier site they also turned up on a porn site in Moscow offering sex for money. Now I know for a fact & will stake my life on the fact that this lady is not & never has been a prostitute. She merely was searching for love & bingo, winds up on a porn site. She was devistated. She eventually with my wife & my encouragement sued the porn site for slander & leeching her photos. She won,  but the experience has turned her off & she has quit the agency she was with & refuses to join another, even mine. Although she fully trusts me & loves me like a brother she does not trust the internet.

It is way it is always good hear the story from both side... MOB business thief, porno site thief... Men lies, women lies...

Same you Richard, who try to be honest and rule a ethics business are not protect against bad girls... of course, you cannot use lie detector during interview of the girls and if later, it appear that she was a bad one, it is your own reputation who will suffer...

Some girls are listed on black list without real reason, simply because they have not accept to marry a guy who have visit them since they don't love him but the man cannot accept this...

I don't trust black list, i don't trust agency, i don't trust myself... Sandro site are a warning but don't mean that the fire is running... Men seeking bride ( localy or internationaly ) need to use brain... know that danger exist... make choice ( i hope the right one )...

Nothing is secure of sure at 100%... but several of us are shooting the last munition... i have make a mistake when i was around 30 year old... now, at almost 38 year old, i can maybe make one more ( i hope no )... but what about people over 50 year old... it is the last opportunity... do they need take a risk or be suspicious ?

But the real problem is not HRB or other agency, it is the men unrealistic expectation... why a very sexy women from  18 year old will have interest in mary a old one from 60 year old... money, green card, etc... until you have so men with unrealistic expectation, you will have scammer for suck them.. and unfortunaly, you will have collateral damage : bad reputation for agency, honest good people hurted, etc ...
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Bruno on April 19, 2006, 03:00:17 PM
[user=1049]Patrick H[/user] wrote:
Quote
I don't know, she looks pretty fake to me.  You can tell by the way her body is contrasted against the background, that and the fact that she looks like a robot. 

But to make my answer short, this is why we require a passport photo and a second form of photo ID (if possible) before we let any lady register on our site.  Yes those can be faked but you're hard pressed to find an agency in Moscow or Ukraine with the technology available to make a 3D rendering.  Believe me, we've seen some tricks that agencies try to pull and they're not subtle at all.  They might have been amazing in 1993 but with our software we can see right through them. 
 
It is a little :offtopic:

Yes, she seem fake... but i am sure not for everybody ;) It is a fast render, around 20 minute but i can have realistic result with a few hours render... same the effect of light go trought the skin... the technology exist and is already used.

About passport photo, i have used it for my last site... only one false copy detected on almost one year ( on around 500 profile )... this mean that it is not 100% sure but it is a good method...

About 3D technology in Ukraine, it will be possible next month... My lady have ask me to bring her a copy of Mandriva 2006 for her... Blender is in the software package... Of course, with her low memory ( 128 Mb ) and low processor ( pentium 3 at 1 Ghz ), for render the previous picture, one full night will be needed... but it is possible... and it is the computer who work, not the owner ( who is sleeping at night )...

My point is that fake is possible, technology allow it... how much false american visa are not make with photoshop for the classical visa/airplane scam... some are very good... check the picture don't allow to see if it is true of false... lucky, several scammer are lazy and they forget clean the metadata from the jpg...

Nobody is proteted... not the client, not the agency... give me one month and i can create a woman who don't exist, with passport, visa, photo, video clip, with a sportif record in FSU, with some genealogy, etc ... Yep, great, i can stop my work like gardener and earn money from idiot who send me gift and money for my english lesson, for new mobile phone, for pay my car crash, for my stay in hospital... Sh!t, why i am honest, i can win a lot of money without problem if i wish...


Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 19, 2006, 04:44:12 PM
Quote
[user=1049]Patrick H[/user] wrote:
 "I took no notes on them, and, sorry, I am not going to spend other time on that issue. I see no reason to render HRB a service by cleaning out their dirty stables." I mean, if you're not willing to take that one extra step to inform the MOB agency itself how do you expect these kinds of things to stop happening?

Because I think it is YOUR duty to verify whether you have scammers in your site, not MINE. My sources of information on scammers are also public and available to you, too, if you care to use them, and I am not in the employ of HRB.

Anyway, I made a quick scan of some of your pages by way of an exercise, and here's my FREE contribution to you :
1. Haustova T (#141546) is listed as scammer at :
- http://www.stop-scammers.com/profile.asp?profile=120
- http://www.scamalert.freeservers.com/Profiles/StoZ/T/tatyana-khaustova.html
2. TatianaZh374  (#122236): I remember she is listed as scammer Zhilkina somewhere. I shall give you her details if and when I find them again.
3. You should check Larisa806  (#167363), she looks rather similar to a Tatyana at :
- http://uaprofiler.com/profiles/profile.php?id=1494

Quote
As I said, your site identifies a problem that does exist but unfortunately it falls short of doing anything but posting racy pictures and making unsubstantiated accusations.

Well, I must say I was VERY surprised to hear that you removed #103389, after your hot defense of her case :). May I ask what prompted your drastic and apparently inconsistent decision ?
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: jb on April 19, 2006, 04:59:48 PM
Good Christ, what a mess~!!!!

 Patrick, I've seen 12 y.o.'s express less convoluted logic when caught in a lie.  You are a wizard at obfuscation, I'll give you that.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Jack on April 19, 2006, 08:44:34 PM
This thread is labeled Double Dealers but looks to me like it should be re-titled Double Talker!
 
First I think what Sandro43 has done is a service, it is an awakening.  All he has done is gone to some websites and taken photos that are being promoted as escorts or hookers. Sandro43 didn't add these photos to these escort/hooker sites, he copied them (or as Patrick H from Hot Russian Brides says "leeched" them) from an already existing site and put them on his newly created site. He is exposing to us what he found. He didn't have to say these are hookers or whores, it's spelled out on the site!!  What the hell are we to think $100, $200 an hour is talking about?

 
Patrick, you seem to be a bit defensive about me mentioning the name Hot Russian Brides. I have stated many times, I like the name Hot Russian Brides. Seldom does the name alone of an agency excite anyone but whenever I hear the name Hot Russian Brides, I get excited. I can assure you this Patrick, if the name Hot Russian Brides ever becomes available and I can get it, I will. Damn, I like that name. Even when you were asked once if the name embarrassed you, you replied no. I don't blame you. But I do have to wonder why you take such offense to me liking the name as much as you do.
 
Now Patrick, about some of this double talking I see you doing.
 
You call yourself Hot Russian Bride but you say your NOT a marriage agency!  That in itself seems a little deceptive, Russian Brides, but your not a marriage agency?   Ok.
 
A former client of yours wrote  "You gotta be kiddin right? Everytime I log on to HRB I have to turn my popblocker on after loggin in to block all those 18 yr olds that want to chat. My blocker "clicks" on HRB at least twice a minute. On the site where I got her contact info my blocker never once clicked."    And what do you write about a competitor,..."One only needs to look at the porn banners at the bottom of the web page to guess why it only costs $10 for the address. I also enjoyed the flurry of pop-ups that threatened to crash my computer when I clicked on one of the "legitimate" links.  
 
I thought at one time maybe Hot Russian Brides provided ladies address but that's just an assumption on my part and I am probably wrong but you did write "we don't sell people's addresses. Honestly we don't care what the "going rate" is for a woman's address, we find the whole practice distasteful."   However you also write "Plain and simple; purchase 2,500 credits once and you're given access to any of the ladies' Independent Agencies."  Patrick, what do you think happens then?  Don't you think the Independent Agencies (who you admit you control the reigns on what they say and do) are going to provide this information to the client?  Or do you turn your head away when the Independent Agencies provide this contact information? Patrick, you are providing men with these ladies contact information, once they have paid you $1000 or used 2500 credits. So although you find the whole practice distasteful, for the right price, you'll turn your head the other way.
I can hear you now, We don't control what are agencies do,  but you have already said you do. So if the agency does allow the client this ladies contact information, after checking with the lady and getting her permission, you ARE selling the ladies contact information for $1000.
 
You write "we don't arrange trips" but then you write "all of our affiliates are well briefed as to what we're expecting from customers before they travel."   And I assume these are the same agencies you are referring to when you say "No we didn't own any agencies but we do hold the reigns on anything they said or did on our site and with our customers".
 
Patrick you wrote,..."Other sites rely on 3rd parties to orally validate their ladies.   NOT US! "
 
Ok, then so it was your people who allowed an American porn queen to become a member of Hot Russian Brides.
 
You wrote the following Patrick,...."When you use our service youre being guaranteed that all of the ladies are real and that theyre here for the right reasons."  ...."You're very right that we serve as an intermediary between the men but I can assure you that we have full knowledge of what our agencies do on our site.......No we didn't own any agencies but we do hold the reigns on anything they said or did on our site and with our customers.......I have deactivated both profiles and removed the agency from our list of services.......On your website you write "Upon signup, each and every lady on our website must submit a valid photo id in person with the local Independent Company/Agency Representative with whom we work. Furthermore, we have spoken with each lady to ensure she is a willing and motivated participant in our service. ".
 
Well Patrick, I guess all that is true with the exception of the porn queen and the many ladies writing the man they found so handsome who was 0 inches tall and the photo of the man was actually a blue pick-up truck.  I know Patrick, a bad agency you got rid of, an employee not doing her job allowing the porn queen.  When you get caught these are your excuses.  The truth is, as I see things, the only time you react to scammers in your base or scam agencies you are working with is after you have been told by your clients, by Russian discussion boards or by undercover TV reports.  You essentially admit that when you said "once you tell us about something we take action against them"  but Patrick WHY is it that you have to be told of these infractions???   Can we assume if no one told you about the scams and scam agencies, hookers and porn queens they would still be on your site? What scams are going on now that we have not told you about?  You write "Our customer service staff works non-stop to make sure that the agencies, ladies, and customers are acting in an appropriate manner"  but Patrick, if that was the case, why are you not removing scammers, scam agencies, porn stars (and now maybe hookers) until after your told by sources other than your customer service staff that is working non-stop to prevent these same scammers, scam agencies, porn stars and maybe hookers who have become part of the Hot Russian Brides family?
 
 
I see you often making snide remarks about agencies bad mouthing Hot Russian Brides but it's ok for you to bash them with your own remarks such as ......my comments were not in any way defaming their site and were simply observations of its performance..........I'm not bashing the integrity of the agency but merely questioning the services that they may or may not be able to provide......

It should be noted that I'm not specifically labeling this particular site as negative but the practice of contact information purchases in general..........One also has a hard time ignoring the glaring grammar and spelling mistakes on the company's mission statement.......I was merely pointing out the credibility issues of a company who advertises for hardcore pornography on their dating site......... I've looked at these "other agencies" and can only marvel at the sites they associate themselves with........ Most of these other sites pay the ladies to meet you once for dinner and then leave you at the doorstep........ there are plenty of companies who would be more than happy to sell you bogus contact information all day.........
 
Patrick in this industry it is usually wonderful if for every 25 happy clients we have, we have only one un-happy. It's hard no doubt, but something to shoot for. You guys at Hot Russian Brides seem to have things just the opposite, for every one happy client you have, it seems you have 25 un-happy clients. All one has to do is look at the three most popular Russian discussion boards, I see complaints after complaints. I have not seen ONE happy client post. I know there must be one, has to be, maybe even two, but I have not read of these happy clients on any discussion board. So I decided to go to your website and I would write some of your many happy clients and get some feed back from them, and what do I see,...
 
.I can't tell you how impressed I am with your service. I'll be a long time member. Thanks again!"
- Christopher

I have been using the Internet both personally and professionally for many years now and find your site to be perhaps the most efficient one that I have ever interfaced with. My search for my future wife led me to your website, and I could not be more pleased!"

- Douglas

"Thanks very much! You guys are the best in the business! I do appreciate your generous and courteous service. I will recommend your company to my friends. Thanks again for incredible service!"

- Scot

Great, I will write Chris or Doug or Scot, but wait, they say how great you are, but their is no way to contact them, no e-mail address. Hummmm, better look at some more references, ah shucks, all these great references Patrick and NOT one that we can write, not one who has allowed you to post his e-mail address. You know Patrick I find it so disheartening to see all these wonderful and happy clients talking so proudly of the service they have received, makes me, others, want to talk to these happy references, but then not one even has an e-mail listed. You know Patrick I think sometimes agencies might make up such fantastic references, you know, "The best agency in the world" or "You guys are the best in the business", "The best service I ever received". I know I would like to talk to such happy reference. And often when you ask the agency with such glowing recommendations for e-mails to these happy clients it's "well, we need to call or write the reference and make sure that will be ok".  Why not post the e-mails on the website?  If these guys are so thrilled, so happy with the service they received, many will agree. Not all of course, some references will not agree to such, but most will, at least from my experience. And when I see ALL the fine references you guys have listed but NOT ONE e-mail to verify such a happy client, well Patrick, at least with me it makes me wonder.
 
At the same time I was on your site I was shocked to see at 3:30 and 3:45 in the morning (4:30 and 4:45 in some parts of Russia) ALL the fine young girls who were on-line.  Un-believable, at 3:30, 4:30 in the morning 20 year old 167575 a student, 20 year old 166480, 25 year old 167058 is a teacher, a teacher and she is online at 3:45 in the morning!!!  This is Wednesday night, Thursday morning, this is not Saturday night, a weekend night, this is during the week!! 159222 a 23 year old teacher was online at 4:30, 155596 a 21 year old student at 4:30am, 164245 an 18 year old student online at 3:30, again on Thursday morning, 167153 a 19 year old student at 4:30. 169488 a 21 year old student at 3:30am, and all these girls are looking for dates at your agencies!!!!! This is crazy! 169091, 24, at 3:45, 157119, 24 at 3:45, 165878 20 year old girl at 3:30 in the morning online chatting, 161422, 26 at 3:45, 169488, 21, at 3:30, 153002, 22, at 3:30. Another teacher, 24, online at 3:45am. How is this lady going to teach class if she is at one of your dating agencies at 3:45 in the morning? 21 year old student 162486 online at 3:45, another teacher, 22, 167027 online at 3:45. A 26 year old lady, 155525 online at 3:30, a 20 year old girl, 162266 online at 3:50am. Another teacher, 162259, what's with these teachers at your dating agencies at 3:45 in the morning? A 21 year old student, 167865 online at 3:30am, 162478, 21 years of age online at 3:45, another 21 year old student 167463, 3:30am, 166932, 22 years of age online at 3:40, 166932, 22 year old, online at 3:30, 164487, 20, online 3:45, 166811, 22 years of age, online 3:30, another student (how are these students getting enough sleep?) 162261, a 22 year old, 162258, 3:45, another 20 year old student 156929, 3:45, a lawyer, 22, 155078, online at 3:45, ANOTHER teacher, 168514, 24, online at 3:30, and a young lady who prefers much older men (I can understand why she is on so late) 20 year old student 165070 online at 3:50. 
 
Patrick I have a little experience with women, ladies, girls of the FSU. Something's not right here. All these young ladies, some teachers, at dating agencies at 3:30 to 4:30am in the morning during the week?  I know, there has to be a good explanation. 
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Patrick H on April 20, 2006, 07:15:05 AM
JB,

Perhaps you could elaborate on my "convoluted logic" and exactly what I'm lying about.  I'd very much be interested to see what you have to say beyond a single sentence personal attack.  All I've done is state that the girls Sandro listed as being on both our site and the prostitution site were innocent of that charge.  So if possible, please elaborate on your point.



Jack,

You never cease to amaze me.  The above post is the very definition of the "straw man" argument, not to mention totally transparent.  It seems to me that instead of sticking to the thread topic you once again hijack the board and bring up your same old arguing points against us.  Some would call that misdirection.


All of the testimonial contact information is available upon request by customers.  Those members asked for that much privacy, as they don't feel comfortable putting their personal email addresses out there for all to see unless it's specifically asked for.  And to refute your claim, there have been more than a few "happy client" posts, they just seem to get dog-piled on as soon as they speak up.  It should also be noted that not everyone comes to these forums, more to the point, most stumble across this and other forums while doing random searches.  So believe it or not, there are a lot of people who use various services and never once find this particular place.


I will say though, for someone who is so concerned about needing verification on our happy clients, you sure don't give anyone a chance to review your product.  With all of your nay saying, I'd love to see your site at work.  Would that be possible, or is this always going to be a one-way attack?  I'd also like to see some hard numbers about those chat times, unless of course I'm supposed to take everything you write as fact.  

 

Thanks to those who gave me a chance to speak. 



Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Jack on April 20, 2006, 08:57:11 AM
Hello Patrick H.
Welcome to the RWD Patrick and welcome to the big leagues.
I guess it's good that I am able to amaze you. Much like the amazement I feel seeing all these young girls sitting in your dating agencies at 3-4am in the morning.
Not sure what you mean by the definition of the straw man argument. Did I post or suggest anything to you that you feel was not the truth?  If so let's please discuss. What did I post that was transparent?
 
Regarding all your fine references, why must potential clients request from you the contact information of these fine, outstanding references? And the answer from you is, "Because this is your business model, this is how you have decided to do business". No one can tell you how to run your business. I was just making an observation. To me, if I had as many fine references on my website as you had on yours, I would certainly want potential clients to be able to contact those happy past, or current, references. And I am sure we'll have a differing opinion here, you say your members ask for that privacy. I say to my happy clients if your so happy about our services and you want to be a reference, I would prefer to be able to post your e-mail address, what good is your reference if men cannot contact you to verify all those fine things your saying. And your right Patrick, some guys don't want to give out this information, but a great many do. And with all the fine references you have, you mean to say that not one of those fine references, those references that speak so highly for what you have done for them, not one will allow you to include their e-mail address? I have seen it time and time again Patrick. New agencies, like yours, wanting to appear to have many fine references will just make them up. And I'm not saying yours are made up but I have seen agencies who have done so in the past. References like "Your the best in the industry. Bob. California". And when you go to ask Bob about why he feels so strongly about that agency, you can't!  No way to write Bob.
 
Patrick, you have 32 happy references listed. Could I write each of these 32 references and ask them personally about the services they received?
 
You say there have been more than a few happy clients who have posted on a few of the discussion boards. I apologize, I did not see a one of these. Could you please point them out to me now, I would really like to read of just two past happy Hot Russian Brides clients. Can you tell me what discussion board, under what topic? Thanks.
 
Regarding your comment about not giving anyone a chance to review our product, and you would like to see our site at work. Patrick, our site (now 9 years old)  is a secret. We try not to tell anyone it's name or it's url address. But once you have been around awhile, once you have been around the block a few times, once you become a little more knowledgeable as to the industry you will probably be able to learn about our hidden site.
 
You ask for hard numbers to verify all those young girls sitting in your dating agencies at 3-4am in the morning. I thought you would not believe it either so I went to save the information. There were five pages at the time, 44 ladies online. I went to save page 1, could not be saved, nor could you save page 2, 3, 4 or 5 as your system does not allow the pages to be saved.
 
Easy enough Patrick, I have sent you each of the girls ID number, I have sent you the time they were online. Can you not look up each ID number and call the agency manager and confirm that lady was sitting in the dating agency at 3:30 in the morning? Why sure you can. Patrick, please take the ID numbers, I went to the time and trouble to save this information, surely you can contact your dating agencies and verify this. I hope you will and I hope you will let us know what your research found out.
 
 

 
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Patrick H on April 20, 2006, 09:37:05 AM

Jack,

Thank you for your reply and please be assured that my amazement was purely humorous at best.  Although I will say that your ability to skirt basic questions is pretty amazing.  "Secret agency"?  Wow.  And the "transparency" I was referring to was not referencing your allegations but your actions.  It can be likened to someone who constantly makes aggressive comments because they themselves are a bit intimidated; i.e. your motives are transparent. 

 And so you know, here's the definition of a "straw man" argument: A straw-man argument (sometimes erroneously called "straw-dog argument") is a rhetorical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetoric) technique based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw-man argument" is to create a position that is easy to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent. A straw-man argument can be a successful rhetorical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetoric) technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it is in fact misleading, since the argument actually presented by the opponent has not been refuted.

The reason why the testimonial contact information is only available upon request is because the customers themselves requested it as such.  Despite what you may believe, a lot of people aren't comfortable with their home phone and email readily viewable by just anyone on the internet.  We've made it so that if a customer is truly curious, we'll provide the information with no problem and they can ask whatever they wish.  This way, we cut down on any prank calls or spammers trying to flood their respective emails.  And Jack, the key word here is "customers" or even "potential customers.", which of course does not include you. 

I will throw you a bone of sorts.  Most of the numbers you listed were never chatting during those times, nor were they ever online.  If you had taken the time and courtesy to actually ask me, I could tell you that those agencies have full time translators that work in 12-hour shifts.  When the ladies give them their email responses in hard copy form in Russian, the translators do their thing (translating) and then send them to the men.  The reason for this is because the the agencies get so inundated with emails from the men that they had to expand their translation services to later hours.  I have looked over all of the transaction histories that you listed but unfortunately you never give dates, so I'm not sure when you're speaking of.  Because you also don't give any chat transcripts or any other evidence that they were chatting, I have no reason to think otherwise.  For the record though, almost all of the number you listed NEVER chatted during those hours. 

Jack I'm not going to be baited into your same tired routine, because I've seen threads eventually locked down from this kind of banter.  If you would like to PM me on this issue, I'd be more than happy to discuss this further.  The thread has gone off topic enough.  The point of this thread and the point of me responding to it, was the allegation that three of our ladies were prostitutes.  I've answered that claim and covered about as many angles to those questions as possible.  Your attempts to steer it towards your own goal of haggling over our correpondence policy and other issues is misguided and tiring at this point. 

Unfortunately though, I've actually got lots of work to do and can't hover around these forums all day (helping to run a successful non-secret site).  If someone has any questions or anything else that might need my attention, by all means PM me or email me through any of our sites and I'd be more than happy to answer them. 

Thanks again everyone for your time on this issue.

Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Jack on April 20, 2006, 10:00:21 AM
Patrick I never suggested or said anything about a reference providing his phone number, I certainly would never ask a reference to divulge his phone number, where did this come from?  However I will stand behind my business preference of asking guys who would like to offer a reference "What good is your reference if men cannot contact you directly" and you know what Patrick, most guys agree. Why all 32 of your references refuse to include an e-mail address so others can verify what they have said seems a bit queer and unusual to me.  Of course it's your business and you can do what you want but might I suggest next happy client who wants to offer his reference ask him if you can include an e-mail address. In my opinion if you have done a wonderful job for this guy he will gladly offer you an e-mail address to go with his reference.
 
Ok, since you don't want me verifying your 32 happy references next client I get who ask's about Hot Russian Brides I will ask him to contact you so he can contact your many happy references.
 
Ohhhhh, so now your saying all those 18, 19, 20, 22 year old girls were really not at the dating agencies at that time. Even though each of the profiles said " Chat live with Oksana and watch her live!"  or  "Chat live with Elena and watch her live!" , etc, etc.  This seems as being VERY deceptive Patrick. Now your saying that most of those girls were really not there at the time even though it was indicated you could talk live with her and see her on video at that time. Patrick, why would you show on the girls profile she was there to chat live and watch live if she really was not there?
 
Patrick hopefully you just missed the question and are not dodging it, you said that there have been more than a few happy Hot Russian Brides clients who have posted on the discussion boards, could you tell me which site and under what topic. Thanks.
 
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: andrewfi on April 20, 2006, 01:07:31 PM
Patrick ~ I would not claim that every girl who has pictures on an MOB site and a site advertising herself as a hooker is a hooker, just as I know that not every profile in every agency is genuine.

But as at least one other person has pointed out if there are two sets of pictures and in one a girl is showing more flesh than your agency would permit and in the second they are acceptable to you and used by you, well, we know which path the pictures could NOT have taken.

As you maybe dont know, photographers in the FSU are not easily affordable by most girls. Most girls don't even have their own camera, let alone the money to pay for a studio setup for glamour pics. The ONLY way that most attractive but unremarkable women will have a set of studio pics is if someone is paying for them. So, that raises questions. Are your as doing glamour/soft porn shoots for the girls? Do you approve of this? Who IS paying for the pics? I hear the sound of ducks quacking! How do you explain a young girl affording to pay for sets of glamour/softcore pics? Once you have explained that, let us get started on just how those pics end up on online prostitution catalogues.

We know that it is much easier for a client of a hooker who uses a website to advertise herself to comment on the veracity of pics and person than it is for clients of MOB agencies, you will not see many posts from clients claiming that women are not real. But when they do, they are usually referring to obvious situations where models have had pics lifted from other websites etc - not really likely in your situation though - due to the nature of the content.

Girl broke down- Well she would, wouldn't she? What else might be a sensible and likely reaction? 'Yes Patrick, I am a tart!' I doubt it...:cool:

BTW, back to definitions of many... If only 150 guys have actually made a trip to the FSU under your aegis, then I suggest that this truly is 'not many' given the volume of business that you and your employees have claimed.

Really though, you know that there are hookers and ex-hookers on your site. You don't know which they are, although I bet your affiliates do! You don't even KNOW which girls are real. Surely better to be realistic and deal with the realities than to try to obfuscate and claim something that is palpably untrue.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Patrick H on April 20, 2006, 01:15:18 PM
Actually Andrewfin, that's 150 since January of this year.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: andrewfi on April 20, 2006, 01:16:40 PM
Sorry for double posting.

I am curious.

Jack claims that he has the names and id numbers of a load of women who were online on the HRB system during Russian sleepy times. Patrick claims that they were not online at those times, but that he has teams of translators working around the clock.

OK, I'll bite.

Is Jack lying?

If he is not, then why would translators be online, representing themselves as female clients during the night? They should be busy writing emails on behalf of the girls, not pretending to be other people - or did I miss something? Coz, I am with Jack here! Unless the girls are being paid to be online to chat during the sleepy times, they would be at home asleep. (OK I have a bit of problem with the idea of nightshifts for translators as well, but let us let than one pass eh?)

If he is lying, well, actually I tend to think it unlikely that he is.:(

150 in almost 4 months. What is that, about 5% of your active membership during that period? In proportionate terms about the same as was reckoned to be the proportion of hookers and ex hookers by Sandros?

Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Patrick H on April 20, 2006, 02:02:12 PM

Sad really.  I came back to answer a PM and got sucked back into this rubbish.

Andrewfin,

The translators are not representing anyone.  When they log into  the profiles to send the emails they don't chat, or video chat, or  anything of the sort.  All that it shows is that the lady is  online, nothing more.  Once the translators push the messages out,  they log off and go about their business.  It's a simple as a  green light coming on, then going off.  We actually had a member  complain the other day because he saw the lady come online but not chat  with him, when the he kept pressing for answers the translator informed  him that she was simply sending out the messages and apologized.

As we rewrite the site we're in the process of fixing that flaw.   All Jack has are the numbers of ladies who appeared to be online during  late night hours in the FSU.  He was not approached for chat, nor  did he view them on their webcams.  From every record I have, they  weren't chatting during those times, there's no transcripts, and their  login times where less than thirty minutes a piece.  Of course, my  records must be lies and his uncharted observations must be fact.  After all, he's running a super secret agency and I'm but a lowly Administrator.

 

"They should be busy writing emails on behalf of the girls, not pretending to be other people - or did I miss something?"

Nice try.  They're not writing anything on behalf of the ladies,  they're translating the messages written by the ladies and entering  them in the system during times when the ladies are not able to come to  the office.  Strangely enough, that's what translators do.   I'd appreciate it if you kept your words out of my mouth.

"Is Jack lying?"

Not my call to make. 

"If he is lying, well, actually I tend to think it unlikely that he is."

Yes because what would a rival business owner have to gain from  numerous failed attempts to discredit his competitors, while at the  same time keeping his own business shrouded in mystery?  It  baffles me.  What kind of service never advertises, never shows  anyone their product, and only caters to a "select" few? 
 

"150 in almost 4 months. What is that, about 5% of your active  membership during that period? In proportionate terms about the same as  was reckoned to be the proportion of hookers and ex hookers by Sandros?"

I'm sorry, was that a question?  Of course not, just another  baseless double-edged barb.  Now, if only we could get you to  write five sentences without emoticons, then we'd be on the right  track. 

Honestly Andrewfin, I'm not too concerned about what you "have a  problem with" or what policies Jack "believes are true".  You're  not a potential customer and from what I can see, neither of you are  actually looking for a RW.  Jack honestly expects me to provide  the contact information of our satisfied customers to him, even those  he's a competitor!  The very idea is so laughable I honestly  didn't think anyone had the guts to ever proposition it.

Our agencies are becoming so busy that they needed to expand their  operations to later hours in order to keep up with the number of  clients, that's the bottom line.  In the end I'm just happy that the three ladies who were  listed on Sandro's site are going to take legal action against the  prostitution sites who are portraying their images.  Though I  doubt highly if he'll check later on to see if they're removed, at  least they'll be able to put that garbage behind them and hold those  accountable.  Still, like Rvrwind said, that practice needs to be  crushed so that it can give this industry more room to breathe and grow  in a more positive fashion.

 

There (sighs) I'm done here.  For real this time.  I wish you all the best of luck.

[size="3"] [/size]

Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Jack on April 20, 2006, 03:18:29 PM
whoaaaaa Patrick, hold on there fella. I never said I attempted to chat to any of your girls, I never attempted to log on to view any of these young girls. You have a link on your site that says "see who's on-line now" and I clicked on that link. ALL the ladies I sent you (and several more I did not send you) were ladies who your system said was online at that time.  Only this morning did we learn that these girls were really not online ( I think a very deceptive practice) but it was actually your translators who were "turning on a green light" as they were sending out e-mails for these young girls. I never said I tried to chat with these ladies or to see them online, I think your trying to mislead here.
 
For you to claim I am not actually looking for a good Russian wife is just not true. More incorrect assumptions Patrick?  And as I am seeking a good Russian/Ukraine wife I do seek the services of good, honest and ethical marriage agencies, marriage agencies which allow it's potential clients to write to real references as opposed to reading probably made up references. I know Patrick you will be dishearten to learn I have scratched your marriage agency of my list of agencies to consider. If I have interest in any of the ladies from your site it won't be a problem finding them elsewhere where I, and others, can get direct contact with these ladies for about $975 less than your charging for the same service.
 
Regarding my secret agency with it's secret references and hookers I can't believe your so clueless, in fact I can't even believe were in the same business. Let me give you a hint, the First clue I will give you is its the type of agency you could find your dream bride.
 
I think your showing a lot of your in-experience when you say "most" men stumble across this and other forums. WRONG oh great wise one. The EDUCATED consumer "stumbles" across here. And it would be to your agencies best interest if none of your future clients stumble across this or any of the other forums. I have said for years that Anastasia best clients are the un-educated consumer. I think it will be a fair assumption that this will also apply to your future clients. Maybe I'm wrong with this expressed opinion but I think ANYONE who takes this pursuit serious enough to do their homework, to research the agencies, to ask for help and information from others, is NOT going to be doing business with Hot Russian Brides.
 
Everyone has welcomed you to RWD Patrick, like I said, your getting to the big leagues here. I hate to see you leave, especially before you can show us where are some of these many happy references who have indicated such on some of the Russian discussion boards. I cannot find one, not a single one, but I can find many who have expressed a great dissatisfaction with your agency. Like I said earlier, ten bad post's to one positive posts isn't going to keep the doors open for to long. Well, that along with $120,000 a month in overhead.
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 20, 2006, 06:03:02 PM
Fellows, just give Patrick H time and rope enough, and he'll tie himself into incredibly absurd logic knots :).

I hope this is not a truly representative example of MOB managers : it completely destroys my naive faith in the business, and my wishful hopes of finally finding my ideal spouse in those sites (scammers and double dealers excepted, of course :D)
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 20, 2006, 11:51:07 PM
No honour among hookers  :(

Update on  ELENA MARDANOVA : it turns out that the photos used by this hooker/scammer actually belong to another person : 27 y.o. escort Rikki from Ontario, Canada, with own website at http://www.hotrikki.com/ (includes a video clip with Rikki speaking). So, all you US fellows who expressed interest, she is just a short hop across the border (and a home game for Canucks)  :D

Incidentally, I obtained this info from the Russian Tea Room antiscam site (http://russiantearoom.net/ ) previously unknown to me. Anyone care to comment on its reliability ?
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 21, 2006, 12:41:36 AM
Excerpt from informative essay "Easter celebrations in Russia", sent to subscribers by Russian Women Net :

One the symbols of the Russian Easter celebrations is an Easter egg. Russian Easter eggs are of two different types. Some, called "krashenki," are dyed red by boiling eggs with onion skins. Others, known as "pysanky," are manually painted by more sophisticated ghosts[/b]

I have admitted my never having visited FSU countries. Could someone more experienced enlighten me on the subtleties of "ghost sophistication" there, and the reason why ghosts have a monopoly on the "pysanky" market ?  :D

(DAN, this could develop into a truly fascinating subject, perhaps deserving a wholly separate thread :cool:)
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Bruno on April 21, 2006, 12:51:42 AM
[user=986]SANDRO43[/user] wrote:
Quote
Update on  ELENA MARDANOVA : it turns out that the photos used by this hooker/scammer actually belong to another person : 27 y.o. escort Rikki from Ontario, Canada, with own website ...

Sandro, you are wrong... MOB business will confirm that these Rikki have thief the few thousand of picture from MOB agency ( the same for the video clip ) :huh:...

It seem that now we know the real origine of the photo set...
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Bruno on April 21, 2006, 01:02:03 AM
[user=986]SANDRO43[/user] wrote:
Quote
[color="red"]Others, known as "pysanky," ...[/color]
More info at : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pysanky

And Rvr will be happy again :

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ea/Pysanka.jpg)

The world's largest pysanka was erected in Vegreville, Alberta in 1974, commemorating the 100th anniversary of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police...

Quote
Another Ukrainian superstition insists that girls should never give their boyfriends pysanky that have no design on the top and bottom of the egg; the baldness on either end signifies that the boyfriend will soon lose his hair.
Richard, have your wife give you so egg without design on the top and bottom :D:P:D
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 21, 2006, 01:04:23 AM
Bruno, you are heartless, think of the disappointment your news (on Rikki, not pysanky) will create in North America :shock:

Also the fact that the "Mob" is back in business, after all that Elliot Ness and Rudy Giuliani did, is very disheartening  :huh:
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 21, 2006, 01:10:04 AM
I see, "pysanky" are prepared using a batik-type technique.

This is getting increasingly fascinating : what are the possible connections between sophisticated Russian ghosts, Balinese craftsmanship and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police ?

Maybe Dan (Brown) could answer that ..... and write a new book ("The Pysanky Code" ?) :P
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Rvrwind on April 21, 2006, 09:13:09 AM
Quote
The world's largest pysanka was erected in Vegreville, Alberta in 1974, commemorating the 100th anniversary of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police...

Well now, who'da thought a coincidence like that would show up in this board or any other for that matter.

Bruno, before moving to Tver I lived a scant 30 kilometers from Vegerville, a town called Tofeld, about 70 kilometers east of Edmonton, Alberta. Saw that very egg many times. Vegerville is well known for its large Ukrainian population and is where I had my first encounters with Russian & Ukrainian ladies.

On the drive from Tofield or Vegerville, as Vegerville is farther east, one drives past the Ukrainian Village which is quite a popular tourist stop in the summer months. There is built on that spot a replica of a 15th. century Ukrainian village, complete with thatch roofed huts & all. Interesting little place. Authentic or not I don't know but it looks kool & the tourist keep stopping to check it out.

Right beside the Ukrainian Village is Elk Island Park. A nature preserve sporting one of the largest Buffalo herds in North America as welll as a wack of Elk. Great place for a picnic & to commune with Mother Nature.

Thats my home, Big Sky Country we call it, mostly because there ain't too many hills or anything to block the view. I grew up there & there ain't no better place on Gods Green Earth to raise a family. Of course, thats just one mans, & I might add I'm just a little bias in that area.:)

RVR-Canadian Cowboy livin' in Russia!!!:shock:
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 21, 2006, 06:16:06 PM
..... and why are the RCMP allowing a Canadian's photos to be stolen by a FSU hooker/scammer ? And what if the MOB is also involved, as Bruno obliquely hints?
The plot thickens and the mind boggles  :cool:
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 22, 2006, 09:43:35 AM
Ominous silence here ....

Everybody off to Ontario to see Rikki ? Well, look what you are missing !

From: smuglyn_ka <smuglyn_ka@mail.ru>
I am happy that you are still interested in me after reading my profile. Hope you read it carefully. I am very passionate and sexy and I want to receive the same from you in return. But  at the same time I am romantic. I like to sit under the moonlight at nights, and hold hands and talk and kiss, and I will  touch  you affectionately, and whisper sweet things in your ear as we stroll in the night air. To have candle light dinners. To dance close to each other as you will press me lose to you and tell you how much you want me. To swim naked together  in  the  night,  and  when  we  finish,  I will do whatever  you  want  me  to do to you, just tell me what you like  best  of all the wonderful things I will do for you to make  you happy.... If you want to get to know more about my thoughts,  I'll  be  waiting  for your letter to my address:
smuglyn_ka@mail.ru. Swarthy,Yulya.

The makings of a heavenly love affair. I am only worried by the closing salutation : Swarthy ?
Is she referring to my girth, or is it the bad translation of an affectionate Russian bye-bye ?
Title: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: dfb on April 22, 2006, 07:21:01 PM
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Swarthy (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Swarthy)

Swarthy

adj : naturally having skin of a dark color; "a dark-skinned beauty"; "gold earrings gleamed against her dusky cheeks"; "a smile on his swarthy face"; "`swart' is archaic" [syn: dark-skinned (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=dark-skinned), dusky (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=dusky), swart (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=swart)]






Source (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=00-database-info&db=wn): WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University
Title: New DOUBLE DEALER entry : KSENY-OLYA
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 03, 2006, 12:45:45 AM
19 y.o. Kseny sent me 1 letter, then disappeared, probably after visiting my website  ;)

http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco-eng.htm
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: BillyB on May 05, 2006, 09:21:54 AM
Nice site you have here Sandro. http://www.floriani.it/ballroom-eng.htm  I'm not talking about the nude pics  ;) but the music. I'm listening to Cole Porter's "Just One Of Those Things" as I type. My favorite composer just happens to be out of Italy, Ennio Morricone. Most Americans will recognize his music in the Clint Eastwood spagetti westerns. Here's a list of his film projects with the latest film named "Leningrad". http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001553/
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 05, 2006, 09:33:07 AM
Thanks BillyB, glad that someone discovered that hookers are NOT my ONLY interest ;D
I am now working on couple of Beatles' tunes ("And I Love Her" and "Norwegian Wood")
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Slings_and_Arrows on May 06, 2006, 06:07:30 AM
I'm blown away by some of the comments here.  Just a question... what site does Patrick run?
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 06, 2006, 06:33:39 AM
Just a question... what site does Patrick run?
Hot Russian Brides & Russian Love Match
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Slings_and_Arrows on May 06, 2006, 06:37:12 AM
Hot Russian Brides & Russian Love Match

Thanks Sandro.  I'll take that as a warning!  ::)
Title: (E)lena Mardova/Rikki
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 06, 2006, 11:45:34 AM
You may remember (E)lena Mardova from a previous posting (if not, the photo will surely refresh your memory ;))

Just received an email from her (sorry) :
From:tigoda3000@mail.ru
Subject: F*ck you
you are f*ing sh*t
you will f*ck yourself sometimes
and all ladies will f*ck you
Lena

Her "English" should remove any doubt about her having stolen Canadian Rikki's photos. Could it be a coincidence that my report on her was published today on Stop SCammers ?
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: jb on May 06, 2006, 12:44:23 PM
Do we take it that the lady/scammer is miffed?

There's no telling how many fish were on the line using those photos, now Fat Yuri has to worry about all the ones who might get away due to the expose and he'll have to dig up a whole new set of photos.

Too bad.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: BC on May 06, 2006, 03:10:14 PM
LOL jb,

If Sandro keeps this up, next time you're in the checkout line at the store you might notice that the guys in front of with sad faces have blank spaces their wallets where the pictures were.

I would really love to know how much these guys are rackin in with a couple of googled images..

Remember the ol' 'streets paved with gold' saying?  Probably not that far off base..

I remember an old session on how to sell.. went something like:

If you state the products worth at 100%,  out of 100 customers 1 will buy.
If you overstate the products worth by 1000% out of 100 customers 25 will buy.

"Daarlink.. I put a little dent in the jag.."
"No prob babe.. it's your turn to go to WU today - pick up another one"

my palms are starting to itch....





 
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: BillyB on May 06, 2006, 04:02:38 PM
Sandro, that Russian Tea Room has one of the widest selection of scammer's photos I've seen. I'm sure they've collected the photos from other anti-scam sites but there is no doubt there are legitimate scammers in there.

I guess the escort Elena Mardova wasn't Russian after all. Goes to show you that you can't trust them damn escort agencies!!! This is definately a blow to the integrity of the industry. I bet over half the women advertised as Russian aren't. Maybe Elen can look at all those sites and let us know who's Russian.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 07, 2006, 07:00:40 AM
Sandro, that Russian Tea Room has one of the widest selection of scammer's photos I've seen. I'm sure they've collected the photos from other anti-scam sites but there is no doubt there are legitimate scammers in there.
BillyB, yes, 2,600+. Thanks for the pointer, I recently started submitting reports to J at Russian Tea Room, as well.
Quote
I guess the escort Elena Mardova wasn't Russian after all.
Elena Mardova probably is a FSUW, it's her photos that are definitely not.
Quote
Goes to show you that you can't trust them damn escort agencies!!! This is definately a blow to the integrity of the industry. I bet over half the women advertised as Russian aren't. Maybe Elen can look at all those sites and let us know who's Russian.
I should not be so pessimistic. Several FSU MOB sites include a percentage of non-FSUWs whose profiles openly state their nationalities. I do not think that a FSUW saying she is otherwise would gain an advantage.
Elen who ? A psychic ;)?
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 10, 2006, 10:40:36 AM
now Fat Yuri has to worry about all the ones who might get away due to the expose and he'll have to dig up a whole new set of photos.Too bad.
I just remedied a glaring omission in the RWD Glossary on WIKI : no entry for Fat Yuri. Anyone care to add their contribution ?

Fat Yuri
Dubious owner/admin of dubious MOB site, whose objective is to make a lot of money from his unsuspecting customers. His activities include, but are not limited to, any of the following :
- hiring help to write fake FSUW letters
- writing fake FSUW letters himself, when no other help is available
- stealing women's profiles/photos from other sites (of any type)
- arranging fake phone calls to/from FSUW, which are actually done by his staff/helpers/himself (he is said to exhibit a high-pitched voice, when necessary)
- arranging encounters with gorgeous FSUW who never show up due to unforeseen/unavoidable impediments
- renting to foreign visitors apartments in Chernobyl-like environments
- running a translation service staffed by illiterates
- offering interpreters who know only enough English to tell you that YOUR English has too strong a regional accent for their comprehension
- offering a limousine service based on a fleet of Zigulis and Trabants
- arranging Events where attending FSUW are hookers or pensioners (best-case scenario), or possess both qualifications simultaneously (worst-case scenario)

all the above for a substantial fee, of course (how else could he keep himself fat ?).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on March 25, 2007, 10:04:19 AM
As recently intimated elsewhere, I just completed an update to my list of double dealers, now totalling 47 such cases.

Due to its growing size and complexity, I found it more convenient to interpose a summary page (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm) before the detail listing.

Enjoy ! :devilish:
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Bruno on March 25, 2007, 12:50:55 PM
Due to its growing size and complexity, I found it more convenient to ...

Sandro, it will be great if you create a new search engine for the internet... not related to keyword but to picture... submit a pic of someone and for the result, a list from all site where these picture is present... perfect for seek scammer or for seek a place where the contact information is free...
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on March 25, 2007, 04:10:51 PM
Sandro, it will be great if you create a new search engine for the internet...
Quite agree, Bruno. However, they require computing power far in excess of what is provided by a PC, as evidenced by face and finger-print recognition programs used by police authorities and running on mainframes :(.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: viking on March 25, 2007, 05:00:38 PM
Sandro

So what does a small mainframe lease for these days? Any possibility that this could be an interesting business venture, assuming proper capitalization? Would be the first on the block.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 29, 2007, 06:28:02 PM
Update to my list (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm):

- Two new entries (nos. 48, 49)
- Links to currently-active professional profiles (for 32 of the 49) on the Profiles page.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: 2tallbill on April 29, 2007, 08:00:44 PM


Christopher, thank for the tip, 103389 a.k.a. Inga/Margarita (with her own hooker's website at
www.margarita2004.fromru.com), and Maria75 User ID 168328 a.k.a. Mila-Maria/Victoria with profile on 1000 Bad Russian Girls. I shall update my page with this new info.

I had to register with Hot Russian Brides in order to verify these profiles, and should not be surprised if I find some additional "double dealers" there.

Clearly Maria 75 is Not the same woman as the woman to the right. Maria is 6' tall, I know this because I met her. The woman to the right is maybe 5' 6" they are obviously two different women.

Bill
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 30, 2007, 06:09:01 AM
Clearly Maria 75 is Not the same woman as the woman to the right. Maria is 6' tall, I know this because I met her. The woman to the right is maybe 5' 6" they are obviously two different women.
Bill, the fact that the two heights are markedly different does not mean much by itself, if you look at other profiles you'll see that stated measures are often inconsistent.

I think there is a marked resemblance between the two sets of photos. However, if you can vouchsafe for Mila-Maria's character, I shall gladly remove her from the list ;).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: andrewfi on April 30, 2007, 02:13:24 PM
You may have met 'Maria' but those two pics are of the same person. Just becasue you met a person does not make them an angel, not does it mean you know everything about them.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Sohkay on April 30, 2007, 02:23:36 PM
andrew,
You're in Estonia, aren't you?

If so, would you mind making a contribution as to your perspective on the Russian monument "riots".

I saw that the Ukrainian police had to use teargas to break up about 60 demonstrators at the Estonian embassy in Kyiv. It's very convenient, actually. You just reassign a few Party of Regions/Comunists to move a few blocks over. I mean, they're already on the payroll, so why not?

But I hear one dead in Estonia, and WHERE is that darn statue?

Sohkay
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 30, 2007, 05:32:36 PM
You may have met 'Maria' but those two pics are of the same person. Just becasue you met a person does not make them an angel, not does it mean you know everything about them.
A Trip Report might shed further light on the subject, but somehow I don't think it will be forthcoming, considering some precedents ;D.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 30, 2007, 05:35:26 PM
andrew, You're in Estonia, aren't you?If so, would you mind making a contribution as to your perspective on the Russian monument "riots".
A bit :offtopic: here, wouldn't you say (unless hookers were involved, of course ;)) ?
Title: I can't prove she is an angel
Post by: 2tallbill on April 30, 2007, 07:34:11 PM
You may have met 'Maria' but those two pics are of the same person. Just becasue you met a person does not make them an angel, not does it mean you know everything about them.


I met her but only briefly for lunch. I can't vouch that she is an angel because I don't know her well enough.

I was recently wrongly accused of being a sex tourist and put on a website so, I am a little sensitive of being wrongly accused and being put on a website. I am not going to say shes an angel when I don't know because she could be the next bride of Frankenstein and then I would be blamed for it later. All I can for sure is this,
She did not act like a sex worker (not that I would know). She was polite, well mannered, very good English, she was dressed stylishly and conservatively. She spoke intellegently and clearly. Her eyes were clear and focused. I would be very surprised to say the least if she was a sex worker. Being an accused sex tourist you would think that I could have noticed.

Just my two kopecks

Bill
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: William3rd on April 30, 2007, 07:50:53 PM
A polished liar is just that. And a skilled sex worker practices the little things so that she can "act" the part that she is playing.

You would never know for sure unless she was talking to you about a sex act for a price (and didnt say that she was kidding you).

I have a couple of good war stories about that
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: 2tallbill on April 30, 2007, 08:35:12 PM
A polished liar is just that. And a skilled sex worker practices the little things so that she can "act" the part that she is playing.

You would never know for sure unless she was talking to you about a sex act for a price (and didnt say that she was kidding you).

I have a couple of good war stories about that

William you are absolutely correct and that is why I will not go out on a limb and vouch for her. I would be surprised however.

just my two kopecks

Bill
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: jb on May 01, 2007, 03:48:24 AM
In as much as what most men are doing regards brief meetings, whirlwind courtships, marriage proposals made to basically strangers, I'd be very surprised if there were't more men getting married to (hopefully) ex-hookers.   We have expounded on this topic sooooo many times I really don't see the need to rehash however someone may want to revisit what the odds are of a skilled sex worker making a good housewife.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: 2tallbill on May 01, 2007, 04:26:38 AM
I just want to say one more time that I don't think that she is in the sex for hire business. Obviously I could be wrong, but I can't prove it.
When I worked for a company I was trained to spot people on drugs. Many sex workers are on drugs. She did not display anything that I
thought that she was on drugs. She was clear, and spoke very well. She was calm, but not out of it. She did not say or do anything that would
make me think otherwise. But with all that being said, I can't prove anything and I wont say for a fact that these allegations are not true. I can only
say that I am would be surprised it they are.

Just my two kopecks,

Bill

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: 2tallbill on May 01, 2007, 04:32:42 AM
I also want to say that Sandro has made a zillion posts and he is very credible and that I like him. I have given the woman Maria a link to this site through her agency, maybe they can clear this up.

Bill
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: jb on May 01, 2007, 04:40:45 AM
TallBill, and others who still haven't snapped to reality yet.

We read often of the large numbers of very beautiful girls one sees in the FSU Discos, they are easy to talk to and usually one can be "chatted up" without too much trouble.  For those who haven't figured it out yet, those girls didn't come to the Disco wanting only to spend the night dancing with other girls.   Since the clubs close in the wee hours of the morning, do you suppose after dancing all night, those girls have the energy to get up and go to a regular job during the day?  I cannot say with 100% certainty, but most likely that girl you got "lucky" with at the Disco has been earning her living meeting foreign dollars at the Disco for quite some time.  The FSU Disco has supplanted the cathouse in modern times.

This phemon also gives the girls engaged in the sex trade a credible "out" when someone asks her a hard question.  You do the math.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 01, 2007, 05:25:58 AM
I have given the woman Maria a link to this site through her agency, maybe they can clear this up.
Which site ? I think you should give her the links to the two professional sites, and see her reaction, if any ;).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: BillyB on May 01, 2007, 05:42:48 AM
I'm not surprised hookers look to get married someday. Their bodies don't stay in prime condition forever adn need a source of income to support their lifestyle when they can't work full time.

I remember a trip report from a guy who went to the strip club and was approached by a stripper who wanted money in exchange for sex. He refused. she must have thought he had some decency and told her friend, another stripper. Her friend approached and wanted to go out with him, no strings attached. She acted like she cared about him and sex lasted ALL night and was fantastic. She acted sad he was soon to leave and go home to America and wanted to see him again but he knew better and did not pursue a relationship with her.

In short, these "professional" women will open their legs to any guy willing to pay but will not marry just any guy below certain standards.

I've heard the arguement hookers will make good wives since they know how to please a man. I don't buy that. There's a whole lot more to being a wife than just opening legs.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Simoni on May 01, 2007, 08:36:24 AM
andrew,
You're in Estonia, aren't you?

If so, would you mind making a contribution as to your perspective on the Russian monument "riots".
...I hear one dead in Estonia, and WHERE is that darn statue?

Interesting point, Sohkay.  Perhaps you should open it as a new thread?

I know my wife is very upset at the news in Estonia...and comes at it with a russian perspective.  She can't seem to understand that peoples who were under soviet domination want to rid themselves of that history.... 

But I learned a long time ago not to express my views about soviet/fsu issues to her!  Instead, I just nod my head, place my hands on hers, smile, saying "yes, dear."  ;D
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Mir on May 01, 2007, 02:56:59 PM
Once George Bernard Shaw was travelling by train. Sitting in front of him was a beautiful young woman. After they chatted a bit he said to her: Will you sleep with me for 100 (keep in mind it was in 19th century)? After a brief thought the woman agreed, he then said; And would you sleep with me for 10? At this she got infuriated and said; That is ridiculous, what do you think I am? GBS calmly replied: Thats already been decided, now we are haggling about the price
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: William3rd on May 01, 2007, 03:37:13 PM
War Story time- St. Petersburg 1999. John Doe is dating a girl. Great connection across the board. After a couple of dates, awesome sex occurs. Total chemistry.

John Doe is into it. He decides to propose. He starts to set up the proposal date at the Customs House Restaurant. His darling tells him that she cant make it that night because she is working as a nurse.

He walks into the Astoria Hotel after Ballet at the Marinsky Theater. As he walks into the bar, there is a tap on his shoulder and a sultry voice asking him if he wants "sax". He turns around and there is the now-astonished face of his potential fiancee. "Not any more," he replied and walked out of the hotel, never to hear from her again.

John later got engaged to another girl in LED-hopefully lower mileage.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on July 06, 2007, 01:39:37 AM
Update to my list (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm):

- Two new entries (nos. 50, 51)
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on July 08, 2007, 03:56:38 AM
Guys, those photos will NOT grow any larger if you click them  ;D ;D ;D.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kristina beats Elizabeth 77-74, must be the "Cleavage Effect" 8).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
... and my warning appears to go blithely unheeded ;).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hmm, any way of making those photos pay-per-click ;D?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
110-109 now (28th July), neck to neck, and STILL counting 8).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Simoni on July 10, 2007, 01:52:27 AM
Guys, those photos will NOT grow any larger if you click them  ;D ;D ;D.
Kristina beats Elizabeth 57-56, must be the "Cleavage Effect" 8).

... and my warning appears to go blithely unheeded ;).
Yep, she's the one i clicked :-)  But now that you have "let the cat out of the bag," on the no enlargement, no more clicks :-)

So Kristina is the winner :-)
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on July 27, 2007, 05:24:40 PM
I just discovered that the photos used by my most active double dealer(s)/scammer(s) actually belong to Czech porn star Jana Cova, who is even mentioned on Wikipedia : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jana_Cova ;).

The photos are probably "borrowed" from:
- http://www.clubjanacova.com/
- http://www.pornstarbook.com/jana_cova.shtml

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Bruno on July 28, 2007, 10:17:30 PM
I just discovered that the photos used by my most active double dealer(s)/scammer(s) actually belong to Czech porn star Jana Cova, who is even mentioned on Wikipedia : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jana_Cova ;).

The photos are probably "borrowed" from:
- http://www.clubjanacova.com/
- http://www.pornstarbook.com/jana_cova.shtml

Hey... maybe it is really her... She is born in 1980 and until 1989, Czechoslovakia was a FSU country... maybe she try to find a honest husband and start a new life...

Hello boys, who wish a ex-pornstar born in FSU... she is young, have the money and know how to use her body for give you a lot of pleasure... you have financial problem !!! Ok, make a porn film during your honeymoon...  :D ;) :D

EDIT : Hmmm, the title from one of her film from last year is called "Jack's Playground"... so, you see... owner of FSU marriage agency are involved DEEPLY  :P ;) :P
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Mir on July 29, 2007, 12:46:28 AM
I think FSU stands for 'Formar Soviet Union'
While Czechoslovakia did have a Communist government in power and was a satellite of Soviet Russia it was never a part of The Soviet Union.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: 2tallbill on July 29, 2007, 03:41:09 AM
TallBill, and others who still haven't snapped to reality yet.

We read often of the large numbers of very beautiful girls one sees in the FSU Discos, they are easy to talk to and usually one can be "chatted up" without too much trouble.  For those who haven't figured it out yet, those girls didn't come to the Disco wanting only to spend the night dancing with other girls.  since the clubs close in the wee hours of the morning, do you suppose after dancing all night, those girls have the energy to get up and go to a regular job during the day?  I cannot say with 100% certainty, but most likely that girl you got "lucky" with at the Disco has been earning her living meeting foreign dollars at the Disco for quite some time.  The FSU Disco has supplanted the cathouse in modern times.

This phemon also gives the girls engaged in the sex trade a credible "out" when someone asks her a hard question.  You do the math.

I know this is an old post. I also know that I could be completely wrong. I did not agree to vouch for a woman because I could not do so.

But I have had my pictures and profile hijacked. I did not have anything to do with the site that took my pictures and profile, and they possibly showed them to Russian woman. I went to the site and changed my photos and profile so that no woman would ever want me.

Is it impossible that this happened to a woman as well? None of her photos showed her in the buff. They were also inaccurate about her height by several inches. Maybe they were estimating? Maybe they had another woman that they would substitute for her?

She could be as guilty as Judas............

But it is possible she was not. She denied it. She lived in a different city. She said that her photos were stolen. I know that my pictures and profile have been stolen. Do scammers in Russia only scam men?

JB you could be 100% correct or not. I met the woman only one time for lunch. I consider myself a good judge, but I know I could be wrong. I will not vouch my reputation saying she is Mother Theresa.

But she did not strike me as that kind of woman. Of course I could be wrong. That is all I can say.

Take care,

Bill
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on July 29, 2007, 04:13:51 AM
Is it impossible that this happened to a woman as well? None of her photos showed her in the buff.
What's your point, Bill, Mila-Maria again ? If so, you may go here:
http://www.russiansexbombs.com/girl-3193.html
and, after paying a few dollars for the privilege, you will be able to see her 4 additional photos (probably not very chaste ;)), and satisfy yourself about her true nature.

With regard to the case in point, it's quite understandable that a hooker should "borrow" the photos of a stunner like Jana Cova to attract new customers, this is not the only case in my portfolio (e.g. Diana Orlova used those of Canadian escort Rikki).

As for the corresponding profiles on dating sites, I think it's either the same case (using the chaster photos, usually) or, since the sites involved are mostly "questionable",  a made-up identity again to attract customers.

Or, more likely in my personal interpretation, an attempt at finding a new "career" 8).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: 2tallbill on July 29, 2007, 03:38:33 PM
The woman is also listed at 165 CM when she is actually somewhere around 175 to 178.
I don't know of women who routinely underestimate their height by 10 to 13 cm.

I am not going to vouch for her, I really don't know her. I spent maybe an hour with her
eating and talking.

Bill
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on July 29, 2007, 04:28:58 PM
The woman is also listed at 165 CM when she is actually somewhere around 175 to 178. I don't know of women who routinely underestimate their height by 10 to 13 cm. I am not going to vouch for her, I really don't know her. I spent maybe an hour with her
eating and talking.
Bill, you ALREADY made those comments months ago. Is there anything NEW you want to add ? Otherwise, I miss the intent of your new post on this subject.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: 2tallbill on July 29, 2007, 05:28:13 PM
Sandro, your right

Take care,

Bill
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on September 15, 2007, 05:48:36 PM
Update to my list (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm):

- One new entry (no. 52, also known as scammer)
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Eastguy on September 15, 2007, 08:11:19 PM
I am not sure i see what the outrage is.

Just because she has been a Hoe doens tme she doenst need or want  a husband or it automaticcaly is a scam.?

Is the likelihood of a scam higher?
Yes,

But I woudlnt be at all surpoised if the percentage of prostetites that are looking for  a foreign husband is higher than that of the female population at large.

because:
-The local boy know of them and look down on them
-they are trained to look for older/monied men anyway
-its nt a good life so they ahve high incentive to change it.

So if I girl is a former prostitite it does not automatically imply a scam IMO.

Even though our puritan snesibilites may want us to think otherwise.
My 2 cents

 :D
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on September 15, 2007, 08:35:48 PM
I am not sure i see what the outrage is. Just because she has been a Hoe doens tme she doenst need or want a husband or it automaticcaly is a scam? Is the likelihood of a scam higher? Yes, But I woudlnt be at all surpoised if the percentage of prostetites that are looking for  a foreign husband is higher than that of the female population at large. because:
-The local boy know of them and look down on them
-they are trained to look for older/monied men anyway
-its nt a good life so they ahve high incentive to change it.
So if I girl is a former prostitite it does not automatically imply a scam IMO. Even though our puritan snesibilites may want us to think otherwise. My 2 cents
Eastguy, perhaps you miss the point of my list, which is that these girls omit to specify their particular skills on dating sites, where they usually register under different names/ages/places of residence/etc. and occupation, although in some cases hooking may be their second, part-time job ;)

Therefore it is a special type of scam, not involving the usual requests for money (unless they are also "normal" scammers, as the last case I posted), but an identity fraud.

And, in my neck of the woods, puritan sensibilities are not as much in evidence as in yours, I'd say, and therefore not part of my motivation to list them as a warning to unwary WM. Or would you rather let this go unnoticed ;D?

Not to mention the marginal fact that these girls are not former prostitutes, but currently have active profiles on "professional" websites, and are therefore still soliticing business.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Eastguy on September 15, 2007, 09:20:47 PM
Good response Sandro.

:)
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on October 08, 2007, 10:18:53 AM
Update to my list (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm):

- One new entry (no. 53), Dina from Simferopol (must be hard to commute all the way to Moscow for her "other" job ;)).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: BillyB on October 08, 2007, 10:43:10 AM
Sandro, your latest link is not working. Better get it working before some guy makes the mistake of getting involved with that beautiful, deceiving, and naked woman. ;)
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on October 08, 2007, 11:18:47 AM
Sandro, your latest link is not working. Better get it working before some guy makes the mistake of getting involved with that beautiful, deceiving, and naked woman. ;)
Working now, BillyB, it was that damn ellipsis ... I appreciate your brotherly concern for newbies' welfare ;D.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on January 26, 2008, 06:21:24 PM
May I present 33 yo Oksana/Ksenia Kovtun/Kovtoun from SPB, latest entry (no. 54) in my list (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm).

Oksana is persistent in her search, with no less than 29 profiles on 19 different sites over the past 6 years, and she favours Bride Ru in particular, with a new profile and photos almost every year (always under her name, to her credit).

I was not totally certain about her, since her only freely-viewable photo (http://www.russiansexyladies.com/model/2938/) is none too distinct. However, enlarging it somewhat revealed the unmistakable mole on her left chin 8).

P.S:: I'm indebted to Jack for providing a link to "Russian Sexy Ladies", a site hitherto unknown to me, featuring 2,700+ girls with some familiar faces ;).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: 2tallbill on February 05, 2008, 10:17:46 PM
Sandro, You are honestly trying to telling me that the whip ISN'T for the
training of Lions, Tigers and Bears?  :cheesygrin:

Take care,

Bill
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on February 13, 2008, 11:12:26 AM
Today's newsletter from Lava Place included 30 y.o. student from Kiev GoldSilver (www.lavaplace.com/GoldSilver/), a familiar face ;), so here's entry no. 55 in my list (www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Gator on February 13, 2008, 11:24:22 AM
30 years old and her occupation is "student".  Give me a break - "student" is dead giveaway. 

I suppose at 30 she realizes that soon she will not be able to command the big fees for selling love, so she is thinking it is time to marry while her package still has value.  She sure is pretty, and unsuspecting men will write her and meet her.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Shadow on February 13, 2008, 11:32:46 AM
30 years old and her occupation is "student".  Give me a break - "student" is dead giveaway. 


I bet she is studying 'Communications'  ;)
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on February 13, 2008, 11:33:21 AM
30 years old and her occupation is "student".  Give me a break - "student" is dead giveaway.
Sir, how dare you formulate such vile innuendos :o :(.

I'll have you know that I was a worker/student myself up to 33, although admittedly in a somewhat different professional area ;D.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Eduard on February 22, 2008, 12:53:07 PM
When I was going through the list I found these two on Hot Russian Brides:
User ID 103389  and Maria75 User ID 168328.  The latter was active on  live chat at the moment.  I let their live hostess know.  I will keep you posted about what they do.
when I used to go through profiles on some agency sites about 5 years ago and also looked on Russian sites I saw many of the same beautiful girls...on agency sites they were these beautiful little angels looking for a good man for creation of family...at the same time they were advertising prostitute services on Russian dating sites and escort sites...
Being a native Russian speaker I can tell a prostitute from a good girl by talking to them in a few minutes. But how does a WM know the difference?
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Gator on February 22, 2008, 01:22:01 PM
Not long ago I became embroiled in a debate with Jack and Leslie about this, both of whom seem to have some experience with consorting with low women.  They claimed that prostitution is rampant in the FSU, while I have never encountered it. So I am perhaps the last man to ask how to tell the difference.

All I know is that I never encountered one knowingly in 25 or more real dates (a date being at least an evening dinner, frequently multiple days together).  Perhaps it is because I avoided women with Internet photos showing them in bikinis, dolled up with heavy makeup, or posing provocatively.  In addition, their profile must speak a message of wholesome values.  Then when talking with them, they had to seem genuine, able to discuss a serious subject in an intellectual manner.

Maybe one or two of my dates had retired from the business because I was dating women past the prime age for hooking.  If so, they did not resemble my image of retired hooker.  A few really knew what to do, but that is no guarantee.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: WmGO on February 22, 2008, 01:38:28 PM

Being a native Russian speaker I can tell a prostitute from a good girl by talking to them in a few minutes. But how does a WM know the difference?


Well, why don't you make a contribution to the Board by explaining
in detail exactly how a WM is supposed to know how to spot such a
woman?

Same, but with what you referred to as "skanks" in a previous thread.

 
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Eduard on February 22, 2008, 02:29:55 PM
Well, why don't you make a contribution to the Board by explaining
in detail exactly how a WM is supposed to know how to spot such a
woman?

Same, but with what you referred to as "skanks" in a previous thread.

 

did you notice that I put a question mark at the end of my sentence. It was a question. I really don't know how you can tell if you are not a native russian speaker.
Women typically can act and are not thaT easy to figure out unless you know what to look for and obviously speak the same language and come from the same culture so that you could distinguish little nuances and suttleties in what and HOW they say things, body language, slang, eye expressions, overall aura...
I think that if you are an American who's lived his life and has seen things you would be able to tell a good down to earth Midwestern girl from a Miami call girl, don't you think?
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: viking on February 22, 2008, 02:48:40 PM
I think its a pretty safe bet she is a hooker when she asks for $200 for a good time. Most of these girls are not going to waste a lot of time. Being subtle is not their strong point. Of course a woman who is a pro-dater or a scammer will see you as more of a long term investment, will not ask for money right away but string you along for awhile (Days, weeks, months).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Eduard on February 22, 2008, 03:08:29 PM
I think its a pretty safe bet she is a hooker when she asks for $200 for a good time.

that's a fair assessment! :clapping:
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: WmGO on February 22, 2008, 03:19:52 PM
did you notice that I put a question mark at the end of my sentence. It was a question. I really don't know how you can tell if you are not a native russian speaker.
Women typically can act and are not thaT easy to figure out unless you know what to look for and obviously speak the same language and come from the same culture so that you could distinguish little nuances and suttleties in what and HOW they say things, body language, slang, eye expressions, overall aura...
I think that if you are an American who's lived his life and has seen things you would be able to tell a good down to earth Midwestern girl from a Miami call girl, don't you think?

I noticed that you are dodging the question.  ;)

Why ask the question and raise the issue if you are not
going to elaborate and edify?

Please state exactly what kind of "little nuances,
subtleties, body language, slang, eye expressions, overall aura" etc.
you are referring to:

1. list of little nuances are:
2. body language is:
3. eye expressions are:
4. subtleties are:
5. overall aura is:
6. examples of slang are:

Capiche`?
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on February 22, 2008, 03:54:03 PM
Just a curiosity not germane to the current discussion: I discovered today on Anti-Scam Org that one of my most active DDs, hooker-wise, was also reported as a scammer. The interesting part, however, is that the photos she (them) use belong to Lithuanian model Jurgita Valts (www.jurgitavalt.com, www.phun.org/galleries/jurgita_valts/jurgita_valts.htm), representing the 3rd such case of hookers 'borrowing' photos of other luscious girls.

Is there some FSUW Consumers' Association where one could lodge a complaint for these misrepresentations ;D?
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Eduard on February 22, 2008, 06:46:54 PM
I noticed that you are dodging the question.  ;)

Why ask the question and raise the issue if you are not
going to elaborate and edify?

Please state exactly what kind of "little nuances,
subtleties, body language, slang, eye expressions, overall aura" etc.
you are referring to:

1. list of little nuances are:
2. body language is:
3. eye expressions are:
4. subtleties are:
5. overall aura is:
6. examples of slang are:

Capiche`?
Generally I will ask a question so that someone will give me an answer. Why are you answering a question with a bunch of questions?
And if you seriously don't know the answers to your 6 questions, boy you are in serious poopoo

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on February 22, 2008, 06:55:37 PM
to parla englies, si?
What's that, Esperanto :o ;D?
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: WmGO on February 23, 2008, 09:51:51 AM
Generally I will ask a question so that someone will give me an answer. Why are you answering a question with a bunch of questions?
And if you seriously don't know the answers to your 6 questions, boy you are in serious poopoo

Geeesh! You continue to exhibit some Russian traits that I always found
distasteful - instead of answering a question you try to turn the subject around
onto the person asking the question.

FYI, I agree that some things are a matter of common sense, but the question
was not asked for my personal benefit but for the benefit of EVERY WM who reads
or who may EVER read this thread!

You are the one holding yourself out as an expert for WM seeking FSUW. You then
pop off about being able to spot prostitutes and "skanks" where WM would not
be able to,and then, when asked to elaborate on something that would be serious
and important to any and all WM, you just make smart remarks??? :-\

Is that how you respond to your customers who ask such a serious question?

Methinks you may have just
flung some lochaddermo
and can't back it up.

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Misha on February 23, 2008, 10:36:38 AM
Not long ago I became embroiled in a debate with Jack and Leslie about this, both of whom seem to have some experience with consorting with low women.  They claimed that prostitution is rampant in the FSU, while I have never encountered it.

Gator, you must live a sheltered life. I have stayed in hotels across Russia for business, and one of the most annoying features are the constant calls from the "dyevushki" offering you their services. And these were not bad hotels: they were relatively decent hotels in large and medium-sized cities. It is pretty hard to ignore when you are trying to sleep floored by jet lag and get woken up by yet another call offering you companionship that you do not want.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Shadow on February 23, 2008, 01:06:19 PM
Gator, you must live a sheltered life. I have stayed in hotels across Russia for business, and one of the most annoying features are the constant calls from the "dyevushki" offering you their services. And these were not bad hotels: they were relatively decent hotels in large and medium-sized cities. It is pretty hard to ignore when you are trying to sleep floored by jet lag and get woken up by yet another call offering you companionship that you do not want.
Gabaub, although I did not receive any calls I have also spotted 'single women' hanging around in the bar and restaurant of hotels looking for business. They are actually quite easy to spot for anyone who has ever encountered 'professionals'.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Gator on February 23, 2008, 02:40:55 PM
Gaubaub wrote,
Quote
Gator, you must live a sheltered life.

You are not alone in your opinion.  Jack questioned me, and Leslie even started a NHB thread "Phil the Fraud" about my statement.  Yet I repeat again that I have not encountered working girls.

The point of my post is that I do not know how to spot a hooker.  Instead, I presented my criteria for selecting women to meet, and my criteria and approach indirectly seems to have excluded "double dealers" and retired hookers.

You mentioned hotels.  All my stays at Russian hotels, with two exceptions, have been shared with a RW date traveling with me.  The exception - Baltschug Kempinski, a premier hotel.  I have seen unattached women at hotels, yet I did not approach them.  A young pretty woman smiled at me once while we were working out at a hotel’s sport club.  Maybe they all were hookers, a small-minded thing to say.

Finally, keep in mind that I am old man.  While my banjo still has many tunes left in it, perhaps I would sing a different tune if I were much younger.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Kuna on February 23, 2008, 04:18:01 PM
Geeesh! You continue to exhibit some Russian traits that I always found
distasteful - instead of answering a question you try to turn the subject around
onto the person asking the question.

FYI, I agree that some things are a matter of common sense, but the question
was not asked for my personal benefit but for the benefit of EVERY WM who reads
or who may EVER read this thread!

You are the one holding yourself out as an expert for WM seeking FSUW. You then
pop off about being able to spot prostitutes and "skanks" where WM would not
be able to,and then, when asked to elaborate on something that would be serious
and important to any and all WM, you just make smart remarks??? :-\

Is that how you respond to your customers who ask such a serious question?

Methinks you may have just
flung some lochaddermo
and can't back it up.




I share your frustration...  some people's participation in RWD is purely focused on marketing and prospecting for new business.  Others are here to share and/or learn.

I noticed you asking an honest question - and your inability to even get an answer.

When I think of the others here that are "in the business" none are so crude as to market in the same way.  Jack is highly respected and I'm sure is referred a lot of business.  Richard from Tver (if anything) was oblivious most of the time to opportunities even when they did present themselves. Even Igor wasn't so obtuse in his self promotion.

This guy's pitch is the same 'ol same 'ol I got on my trip and it frustrated the hell out of me.  What is frustrating is that it obviously works on some but it assumes everyone will suck up the BS when and as it's presented.

"I'm an expert, you need me".

"Even if your girl speaks English you will not understand her and she won't understand you - without me".

"Russia/Ukraine is a dangerous place, you need me to protect you from all the bad things that happen"

"If you want a perfect wife you need me.  It's guaranteed, all my clients are successful."

"Listen to me - No good girls would ever list themselves in agencies."

"My way is the only way - any other way is fraught with danger and failure. Do you want me to save you from failure?"


Anyone would realise such a pitch is all about "me", not the client.

I'm sure these services are really needed by some types of men - I just wish it/they were more client centric and less self-serving.

Oh, Wmgo... you're right... whenever it is challenged the response is exactly the same.  I'd suggest anyone that uses such a service not ever question the advice, demands and directions of the "expert".  Once you engage a service provider yo're simply expected to follow directions, fork out the cash and play you're part.

You're hooked for the duration.

Sad really, because they COULD add such value if they only understood the meaning of "quality". 
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Eduard on February 23, 2008, 05:58:37 PM
Geeesh! You continue to exhibit some Russian traits that I always found
distasteful - instead of answering a question you try to turn the subject around
onto the person asking the question.

FYI, I agree that some things are a matter of common sense, but the question
was not asked for my personal benefit but for the benefit of EVERY WM who reads
or who may EVER read this thread!

You are the one holding yourself out as an expert for WM seeking FSUW. You then
pop off about being able to spot prostitutes and "skanks" where WM would not
be able to,and then, when asked to elaborate on something that would be serious
and important to any and all WM, you just make smart remarks??? :-\

Is that how you respond to your customers who ask such a serious question?

Methinks you may have just
flung some lochaddermo
and can't back it up.


Don't you understand that it's very difficult if not impossible to explain these?
1. list of little nuances are:
2. body language is:
3. eye expressions are:
4. subtleties are:
5. overall aura is:
6. examples of slang are:
people in every culture have their specific way of expressing themselves. How can I explain for example #3 eye expressions???
"when she says "this" her eyes roll up and to the right at a 33 degree angle, she blinks 2.5 times, stares at the ceiling for 14 seconds, blinks again and..." This is just a silly question IMO.
You being raised in the US should be able to recognise if an American person is being deceptive or straight out lieing to you, or if a person is not being sincere, bored, non-interested. Every culture has it's own little subtleties that are impossible to explain. When you grow up in that culture you will notice them and will be able to interpret those things. How can I give you examples of Russian  slang? Just like here in the US, most people use slang in Russia as well. I've met only a few people in my life who speak the way Tolstoy or Pushkin wrote their books. When I hear certain slang being used certain way they say things, intonations, pauses, etc. it tells me things about a person and I can make certain deductions about them. It's not something that can be taught. You need to grow up in a culture to learn all those subtleties. I've lived here in the US for almost 30 years and I'm still discovering new slang, expressions and figure of speech for me.
If you meet an AW and talk to her, wouldn't you be able to tell if she is flirting with you or if she is just being friendly? Her level of education? If she was brought up in a respectable home by good parents or by a couple of dope heads? If she is a college professor or a street walker? I think that most men who have had reasonable life experience and AW experience will be able to figure out all things that I mentioned. Why? because you speak the same language, grew up in the same culture and you happen to pay attention to a person you are communicating with. I don't know how to explain this any better. I thought that this was obvious to everybody and that your question was just a way of giving me a hard time. If you honestly didn't understand what I just tyred to explain, I apologise and I hope that now you do understand. I will also say again, that I HONESTLY have no clue how you can read a person from another culture the way another person from the same culture will be able to read them.
Seems like Kuna managed to solve this problem somehow (or maybe he just believes that he did, I don't know) maybe you could ask him to explain to you how he learned to do that?

PS by the way if you use this "lochaddermo" with any Russian person, they will think that you are either a mental case or an idiot. FYI American expressions don't translate to Russian word for word and if you atempt to do that with anyone in Russia you will only be putting your foot in your mouth every time.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Eduard on February 23, 2008, 06:20:16 PM

I share your frustration...  some people's participation in RWD is purely focused on marketing and prospecting for new business.  Others are here to share and/or learn.
I am here to share knowledge and teach if someone wants to be taught. Somehow people prefer to contact me privately through email and ask for my opinion on different issues like scam, RWs, help them figure out if a woman seems sincere, and other issues...and I do help these people - I share and I teach. You seem to know it all and all your questions were always asked with one purpose - to try to discredit me. Luckily many people disagree with your opinion. This is just the first couple of paragraphs of the letter I received from a RWD member who is now my client. maybe once you read it, you and others like you, will understand that by your "know it all, bully style" confrontational posts you are discouraging some very intelligent and good people from participating in this forum.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Gator on February 23, 2008, 08:38:10 PM
Eduard wrote,
Quote
I am here to share knowledge and teach if someone wants to be taught.

Most of your knowledge seems to boil down to the Kuna mimicry, i. e. "you can't do this without me." 

We have an expression, "Those that can, do; those that can't, teach."  It needs to be expanded because you can not even teach if your response to WmGo's question about spotting a Double Dealer is typical.

To be candid, I would not expect you or anyone to be able to distinguish quickly such women based on telephone calls.  That should be your goal - eliminate such women before a client wastes his precious time meeting them. 

IMO if a man is concerned about this, he should study the photos in Sandro's catalog, learn the style of photos made of such women, and avoid that style like a pox. 
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Jet on February 23, 2008, 09:06:23 PM
Don't you understand that it's very difficult if not impossible to explain these?

people in every culture have their specific way of expressing themselves. How can I explain for example #3 eye expressions???
"when she says "this" her eyes roll up and to the right at a 33 degree angle, she blinks 2.5 times, stares at the ceiling for 14 seconds, blinks again and..."

Every culture has it's own little subtleties that are impossible to explain. When you grow up in that culture you will notice them and will be able to interpret those things. How can I give you examples of Russian  slang? Just like here in the US, most people use slang in Russia as well. I've met only a few people in my life who speak the way Tolstoy or Pushkin wrote their books. When I hear certain slang being used certain way they say things, intonations, pauses, etc. it tells me things about a person and I can make certain deductions about them. It's not something that can be taught. You need to grow up in a culture to learn all those subtleties.

I will also say again, that I HONESTLY have no clue how you can read a person from another culture the way another person from the same culture will be able to read them.

Eduard,
Even if I give you the benefit of the doubt (and being married already, I have no dog in this hunt) it would appear that you have the misconception that this adventure is supposed to be a sprint to the alter. When I first met my wife, could I be certain within the first 5 minutes whether she was a good girl or a bad girl? NOPE! But because I had written, chatted, and spoken on the phone with her, and I'd assessed what information she chose to reveal vs what she chose to withold, and because of her demeanor during that initial 5 minutes, I could be reasonably confident I wasn't being played like a fiddle  ;). By the time my second visit with her was halfway over, I could say I was "sure" and 5 years later I know that assessment was correct. One thing I can also say is that we wouldn't be together today if I had dragged "my buddy Eduard" along on the first date - she damn sure wouldn't have gone for that  ;)


My point was that it wasn't important for me to get married immediately, it was important to let a relationship develop in the most normal way possible.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Eduard on February 23, 2008, 09:34:02 PM
We have an expression, "Those that can, do; those that can't, teach." 
To be candid, I would not expect you or anyone to be able to distinguish quickly such women based on telephone calls.  That should be your goal - eliminate such women before a client wastes his precious time meeting them. 

IMO if a man is concerned about this, he should study the photos in Sandro's catalog, learn the style of photos made of such women, and avoid that style like a pox. 
gator,
"Those that can, do; those that can't, teach."  that's a great expression and well - I did do it! I found and married and brought to the US a great girl with wonderful family values who is a great, loving wife to me and an awesome mother to our daughter.

and I think your suggestion is great! that's exactly what I do though - eliminate questionable women right at the beginning by reviewing their profile carefully and spotting any red flags at the very beginning of their correspondence, saving him a lot of time and unnecessary emotional disstress. If a client wants me to go with him to Russia and help with interpretation among other things, I will go and advice him on my personal observations. They seem to find that part valueable.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Kuna on February 24, 2008, 01:19:12 AM

Seems like Kuna managed to solve this problem somehow (or maybe he just believes that he did, I don't know) maybe you could ask him to explain to you how he learned to do that?


Eduard,

You're method and process are of little value to any man with half a clue because you would just get in the way of him being a success. 

You might add value to someone who can't walk and chew gum at the same time - but realistically this journey is not rocket science.

Maybe those that are so inept as to need your services shouldn't travel in the beginning because it would appear they need someone to hand hold them throughout marriage... are you just setting them up for divorce because you're not always around to make them successful?  Maybe you offer marriage counselling after marriage because you're the only one that understands and can help? 

Is it better they just fail before the K-1 or marriage??? I dunno... maybe you're just setting them up as unsuspecting mules!

I honestly believe most men that fail have failed before they eave home. What I did, and what MANY OTHERS HAVE DONE is no more remarkable than what you did.

Yes, it's true... you're not remarkable and nor am I!  :'(

In my opinion you're offensive because you say stuff like, "Seems like Kuna managed to solve this problem somehow (or maybe he just believes that he did, I don't know) maybe you could ask him to explain to you how he learned to do that?"

See, you want newbies to think this pursuit is dangerous and neigh impossible.. that's when and why they will need you.  When I, Maxxum, I/O and MANy others provide examples of good basic relationship building you have the audacity to question their relationships... Why??? Because that is how you make money!

It's one of the reasons I wouldn't trust you and I would caution anyone who does trust you.  I would go as far as to say someone trusting you (including the letter writer from you're other thread - AND his friend) have questionable judgement to start with.

If that man is so capable and successful why would he need you???  Does he believe you're pitch and if so why does he feel so incapable of doing what so many others do alone?

It doesn't make sense does it?

BTW... I know who he is an I'm not surprised he would send such a letter of support... It just doesn't add any credibility to you or your service!

Your "Russian-ness" could be argued as a disadvantage if one wanted to do that...  after all we hear what most russian men are like... are you one who isn't to be trusted... a scammer?  Liar???  Abusive??? A bad example of manhood when compared to American men.  They are other lies we hear from service provides to extract $'s from men who know no better.

RWD is weaker for your involvement because there have been men here with genuine knowledge and experience way before you came in here trying to make a few grubby $'s.

If you could add some value wuld would have by now.  All you do is indulge in false advertising...  That is not admirable!

Sorry if my opinion offends you but I would caution anyone believe you're BS to parallel your story with all other service providers in the market, to ask questions of men without a vested interest and then make their own decisions.

If they feel so incapable of undertaking this journey they are probably better off sticking to AW or Romanian women from NY...
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Kuna on February 24, 2008, 01:21:45 AM
BTW, this is now another thread spoiled through Eduards shameless self promotion and BS.

May I suggest the mods split it off again so Sandro's excellent thread that has been running for many months doesn't just become another Eduard sh!tefight!

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on February 24, 2008, 07:24:18 AM
May I suggest the mods split it off again so Sandro's excellent thread that has been running for many months doesn't just become another Eduard sh!tefight!
Yes, please stop polluting my thread with these non-porn discussions :( 8) ;D.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: WmGO on February 24, 2008, 11:08:00 AM
Don't you understand that it's very difficult if not impossible to explain these?


difficult but not impossible to provide at least *some* factual elaboration

people in every culture have their specific way of expressing themselves.


no kidding - that is why you were asked for specifics


You being raised in the US should be able to recognise if an American person is being deceptive or straight out lieing to you, or if a person is not being sincere, bored, non-interested.

agree - this falls under the province of the "common sense" I was referring to in my prior post

Every culture has it's own little subtleties that are impossible to explain.

disagree with your use of the word "impossible"


If you meet an AW and talk to her, wouldn't you be able to tell if she is flirting with you or if she is just being friendly? Her level of education? If she was brought up in a respectable home by good parents or by a couple of dope heads? If she is a college professor or a street walker? I think that most men who have had reasonable life experience and AW experience will be able to figure out all things that I mentioned.

agree, and again a matter of common sense


PS by the way if you use this "lochaddermo" with any Russian person, they will think that you are either a mental case or an idiot. FYI American expressions don't translate to Russian word for word and if you atempt to do that with anyone in Russia you will only be putting your foot in your mouth every time.

I never use profanity overseas or locally with foreignors. Don't hardly use it at all anywhere with anyone. Admittedly, due to my hatred of fraud, lies and deception, I occassionally use the bull*** and horse**** phrases, and when I do it is 99% of the time just to myself when noone is around, but I am presently backslid a little bit with my tounge and have used those phrases a few times lately on this forum. I will try to tighten up.  :)




Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: WmGO on February 24, 2008, 11:16:33 AM
that's exactly what I do though - eliminate questionable women right at the beginning by reviewing their profile carefully and spotting any red flags at the very beginning of their correspondence, saving him a lot of time and unnecessary emotional disstress.

Now this is an opportunity for you to provide a lot of valuable info for WM.
Please make  a list of the things you consider to be "red flags" about an FSUW.
Also the things you advise a client are "red flags" during a WM's meeting(s) with
an FSUW.

Thanks.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Eduard on February 25, 2008, 11:36:53 AM
Sandro, here you go, take it back to the porn discussion. I'm done here, it is useless and a waste of time to argue with  4 or 5 people here, and I'm just going to ignore them from now on. I think it's a shame though that Dan felt that he needed to remove the RWD's member's letter to me from my post (that I used with the member's permission). I feel (and I'm not alone) that many RWD members don't actively participate in this forum because they don't want to get into pointless arguments with very few and very prolific and agressive members. Out of aproximately 3,000 members how many actually do post?
I've got no stats, but it seems to me like a VERY law percentege...something to think about..
and WmGO you seem to accuse me of things with absolutely no way to back it up <<<Admittedly, due to my hatred of fraud, lies and deception, I occassionally use the bull*** and horse**** phrases>>>>, so I'm not going to respond to you any more.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Admin on February 25, 2008, 11:49:53 AM
Sandro, here you go, take it back to the porn discussion. I'm done here, it is useless and a waste of time to argue with  4 or 5 people here, and I'm just going to ignore them from now on. I think it's a shame though that Dan felt that he needed to remove the RWD's member's letter to me from my post (that I used with the member's permission). I feel (and I'm not alone) that many RWD members don't actively participate in this forum because they don't want to get into pointless arguments with very few and very prolific and agressive members. Out of aproximately 3,000 members how many actually do post?
I've got no stats, but it seems to me like a VERY law percentege...something to think about..
and WmGO you seem to accuse me of things with absolutely no way to back it up <<<Admittedly, due to my hatred of fraud, lies and deception, I occassionally use the bull*** and horse**** phrases>>>>, so I'm not going to respond to you any more.

Eduard,

For the record, I did not remove anything from your posts - one of the Moderators did so as you will see if you look in the edit record. Not that it matters, as I support the Mods in their actions, and have stated that actions they take should be considered as if it were me - so to that extent, you are correct. I did need to go back to the post in question to find what it was I am accused of - and now I see it.

Insofar as your other complaints - RWD is, by a great distance, the most active and vibrant RW-related discussion forum on the internet. We increase our lead position each and every week, and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. That is, of course, why purveyors of services and products seek to participate here - so they, like you, can hawk their wares. We have some provision for that - as a service to the members. In your case, I feel safe in saying that most feel you have overstepped the bounds - and I will be posting a poll soon to deal with exactly this situation and what steps the members feel need to be taken in such instances.

Now - this topic is NOT about you, and I would appreciate your allowing it to return to the original topic. In fact, further disruption will elicit further intervention.

- Dan
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Eduard on February 25, 2008, 12:06:01 PM
Eduard,

For the record, I did not remove anything from your posts - one of the Moderators did so as you will see if you look in the edit record. Not that it matters, as I support the Mods in their actions, and have stated that actions they take should be considered as if it were me - so to that extent, you are correct. I did need to go back to the post in question to find what it was I am accused of - and now I see it.

Insofar as your other complaints - RWD is, by a great distance, the most active and vibrant RW-related discussion forum on the internet. We increase our lead position each and every week, and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. That is, of course, why purveyors of services and products seek to participate here - so they, like you, can hawk their wares. We have some provision for that - as a service to the members. In your case, I feel safe in saying that most feel you have overstepped the bounds - and I will be posting a poll soon to deal with exactly this situation and what steps the members feel need to be taken in such instances.

Now - this topic is NOT about you, and I would appreciate your allowing it to return to the original topic. In fact, further disruption will elicit further intervention.

- Dan
Dan,
my mistake. I didn't realise that another mod altered my post. I also wanted to post my last and final response on my original thread, but someone locked it while I was typing. When I saw that it was locked I started a new thread and posted it there. I thought that after all the arguments and accusations presented in the last day or so it would be fair to allow me to respond, wouldn't you agree? It is my thread after all
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Admin on February 25, 2008, 12:45:57 PM
Dan,
my mistake. I didn't realise that another mod altered my post. I also wanted to post my last and final response on my original thread, but someone locked it while I was typing. When I saw that it was locked I started a new thread and posted it there. I thought that after all the arguments and accusations presented in the last day or so it would be fair to allow me to respond, wouldn't you agree? It is my thread after all

THIS topic (thread) is NOT your topic Ed. Leave it alone, or you will force my hand.

As for the other topic - yes, it was started by you - to promote your business. It went for 30 pages - and I referenced you to the policy which clearly demonstrates that purveyors of products/services are NOT to take advantage of this site in that manner.

I am considering your request from your PM and will reply when I have time.

- Dan
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: WmGO on February 25, 2008, 01:14:32 PM
and WmGO you seem to accuse me of things with absolutely no way to back it up

Sorry dude, but you misinterpreted my comment. I was actually, somewhat
apologetically, saying that I probably *misused* the horse**** phrase in my
previous post to you. I was not accusing you of anything. I was just
explaining my occassional use - and misuse, of the phrase.

So please don't take your toys and go home. ;) THIS IS YOUR OPPORTUNITY TO REDEEM YOURSELF IN THEY EYES of many people here - just give us a list
of red flags for WM to beware of.

Thank you.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: WmGO on February 25, 2008, 01:25:09 PM
As I failed to persuade Eduard to elaborate on spotting pros and skanks, let
me just say for the benefit of any WM who ever reads this thread that I agree
with the following comments by Gator:

... I avoided women with Internet photos showing them in bikinis, dolled up with heavy makeup, or posing provocatively.  In addition, their profile must speak a message of wholesome values.  Then when talking with them, they had to seem genuine, able to discuss a serious subject in an intellectual manner.

I would add that focusing on women with a university education, a full time job, who
lives at home with her parents - and an  intact family, helps to reduce this problem. Also
a woman who does not hang out in discos every single weekend.

A woman with no job but who always has money, nice clothes and something
going on would be a red flag to me.

Also agree with Jet's comments.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Kuna on February 25, 2008, 01:35:14 PM
Eduard,

You're mastery of human behaviour becomes more mythical per post...

I have no vested interest in RWD, but the following is obvious:

I feel (and I'm not alone) that many RWD members don't actively participate in this forum because they don't want to get into pointless arguments with very few and very prolific and agressive members.

Care to name the others that share your thoughts on this???  Or do you simply imply that you're simply a voice of many?  :wallbash:

Out of aproximately 3,000 members how many actually do post?
I've got no stats, but it seems to me like a VERY law percentege...something to think about..

I know there are MANY members AND non-members that visit, read, consume and consider the information posted in RWD yet feel no need or compulsion to post.  How do I know??? I see their names in the active members panel on the right of the screen.

Others come here to contribute to discussions...  and a very few offer grotesque marketing of questionable services.

The great shame are those that travel to FSU without visiting here first. If more found this place I believe more would be successful...  and less would make obvious mistakes!

and WmGO you seem to accuse me of things with absolutely no way to back it up <<<Admittedly, due to my hatred of fraud, lies and deception, I occassionally use the bull*** and horse**** phrases>>>>, so I'm not going to respond to you any more.

I just love your stereotypical retreat when you can't justify the BS you spread...  you do it frequently but you still don't realise why members here (who are not fools) see right through you and your pitch.



As I failed to persuade Eduard to elaborate on spotting pros and skanks, let
me just say for the benefit of any WM who ever reads this thread that I agree
with the following comments by Gator:

I would add that focusing on women with a university education, a full time job, who
lives at home with her parents - and an  intact family, helps to reduce this problem. Also
a woman who does not hang out in discos every single weekend.

A woman with no job but who always has money, nice clothes and something
going on would be a red flag to me.

Also agree with Jet's comments.


WmGO,

You make an excellent point on preparation for a trip and who we (men) should be seeking.

I know some on this journey find it almost impossible not to get caught up in photos but something I TRIED to do when I was searching profile was to ignore photos until the comments caught my attention.  I need someone who can keep me emotionally engaged - not just physically tempted.

If a man seeks out those most appealing photos or the most alluring poses he will meet with far more risks than if he tries to assess profiles based on what the ladies say.  Of course it's no guarantee that someone is just "pretending" but I think men are the ones that put themselves at greater risk most of the time.



Dan, I don't think anyone would object to you deleting the posts that detract value from Sandro's thread...  the original thread is very entertaining AND informative regarding just one of the dangers in this caper!  It seems any thread polluted by Eduard just ends up being a clone of all others.

Sorry for my interjection!   :cluebat:



Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: BillyB on March 02, 2008, 10:46:51 PM
One nice thing about dating sites is that the women can write whatever they want without input from an agency and you can find all sorts unique profiles from women who'd normally be advertised on marriage agencies as wholesome marriage minded women.

To get back on topic, this woman considers herself a little vampire and is into marketing. What is she marketing, Sandro?

http://bride.ru/ph/htcgi/ladies/667/667381P2.html

This woman is into "public relations". I would guess she's more into "relations with the public" since she's open to dating men up to 99 years old. Unfortunately for her, the site does not accommodate men's ages over 99 so her dating pool is limited.

http://freepersonals.ru/showProfile.da?id=275266&photo=4
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on March 03, 2008, 07:05:51 AM
To get back on topic, this woman considers herself a little vampire and is into marketing. What is she marketing, Sandro?
Buddhism ::) ;)?
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Misha on March 03, 2008, 07:17:16 AM
To get back on topic, this woman considers herself a little vampire and is into marketing. What is she marketing, Sandro?

http://bride.ru/ph/htcgi/ladies/667/667381P2.html

She also writes: " I am searh for that man man who will fall in love with me. Take care about me. And will protect me." Translation: I am a spoiled princess looking for a sugar daddy (in other words marketing herself). Trust me, she will suck some man dry (financially speaking)  ;D
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Eduard on March 03, 2008, 07:34:52 AM
It's interesting to see that on bride.ru a 19 yo would widen her range of acceptable men up to 42 y.o. where as in the real world (local Russian dating sites) a 19 y.o. would usually limit the acceptable age to 25-26, maximum 30 in some rare cases...
By the way would anyone actually consider a girl who posts these kind of pics for a wife??? :cluebat:
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: viking on March 03, 2008, 05:40:01 PM
Now is she being honest or just another ploy to capture your attention?


http://www.merrydating.com/profile.php?pid=74391
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: BillyB on March 03, 2008, 07:38:58 PM
Now is she being honest or just another ploy to capture your attention?


http://www.merrydating.com/profile.php?pid=74391

Funny, She tells men in her profile not to ask for her naked pictures while she submits a photo of herself minus the panties.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on March 03, 2008, 07:44:49 PM
Quote
Ideal partner:
Also I wish to tell that for anybody not the secret, that is now created on sites of acquaintances, and is very a pity to me, that women deceive men because of money,Just remember, if somebody asks you for money it is 100 % SCAM and this profile must be black listed. I do not agree that it is 100 % Scam, it is silly so to approve, though I know, that 90 % of women being here scammers! But it is necessary to live and be more vigilant! I shall tell to you frankly because I opened the woman
Both of you missed the most interesting point, a novel method to detect scammers: live, non-post-mortem dissection 8) ;).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: viking on March 04, 2008, 03:43:38 PM
Hey Sandro

I am missing your point. Matbe I am having a bad brain day. Can you expand?
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: myrddin on March 04, 2008, 04:40:47 PM
He's just kidding, vike.  (We hope!)  The text he bolded implies taking a look inside a physical body (by cutting it open!)

Maybe it's a science thing - when I read the text "I opened the woman", I had a similar vision.  But I wouldn't admit that in public. ;D   And of course the theory rests on the premise that a scammer's insides are detectably different from an honest person's....
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on March 04, 2008, 06:50:54 PM
Hey Sandro I am missing your point. Matbe I am having a bad brain day. Can you expand?
Viking, Myrddin got it (black humour :() ;).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: viking on March 04, 2008, 08:05:08 PM
Hmmm. Sandro, mortician personified?  Scammer Forensics? ;) Got it. Thanks Myrddin.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 25, 2008, 11:55:31 PM
Back on topic ;).

Here's new entry no. 56 in my list (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm), lovely 27 y.o. Irina/20 y.o. Zhenya from Kiev.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 26, 2008, 04:06:52 PM
Here's another one ;).

Angelika from SPB/Minsk is unusual in giving a 'professional' age (32) higher than her dating age (24 in 2005), unlike what all her other 'sisters' do.

She's entry no. 57 at http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 27, 2008, 12:17:25 AM
... and again :D!

Marina/Alina, entry no. 58 at http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 30, 2008, 08:47:49 AM
Natalia/Olya from St. Petersburg, entry no. 59 at http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm.
Title: Re: WANTED, MOB OR ALIVE !
Post by: SANDRO43 on July 05, 2008, 08:07:00 AM
I have a couple of 'professionals', 18 yo Lana and 36 yo Svetlana, whom I am sure also had dating profiles (at Anastasya & Co. ?), but cannot find them.

I wonder if anybody has seen them somewhere and can trace them, so that I can include them in my list of Double Dealers (www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm).

DEVELOPMENTS IN THE PROFESSIONAL AREA
1. Since the beginning of the year, I have witnessed an upsurge in Ukrainian sites (some 12+), mostly Kiev-based but also from other cities (for danger-lovers, 2 girls are operating in Chernobyl ;) ).

2. Whereas previously UKR girls, like their SPB sisters, took pains to hide their identity by concealing their faces (averted, photo-blurred, wearing masks/sunglasses, etc.), now both have apparently become as carefree as their Moscow colleagues.

3. Photo 'borrowing' continues unabated, with some sources being VERY popular:
- Czech porn star Jana Cova: 48 'borrowers'
- Lithuanian model Jurgita Valts: 25 'borrowers'
- Canadian escort Rikki: 6 'borrowers'
- Russian model Irina Voronina: 6 'borrowers'
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: valence on July 06, 2008, 02:53:04 PM
Staggering.   :o

Keep up the good work, Sandro!
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on July 07, 2008, 08:41:02 AM
Staggering.   :o Keep up the good work, Sandro!
Val, this specific type of scam is little-known (it seems I am the only person who discovered and reported it ;)), but fortunately of limited proportions: over some 4 years I found out those ~60 cases only.

The total should not really include those 4 'photo-borrowers'. Theirs is an identity fraud alright, but since photos are my only possible link between daters and hookers (different names, ages, email addresses, locations, etc.), and since those photos belong to a 3rd party, probably there is no connection between the two categories, as in the other cases showing their own photos (apparently and for now, until otherwise found  8)).
Title: Triplicity
Post by: SANDRO43 on August 15, 2008, 08:23:57 PM
(apparently and for now, until otherwise found  8)).
I just discovered yet another of my DDs 'borrowing' photos of others, in this case those of 25 y.o. Playboy Playmate Kimberly Holland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimberly_Holland) ;).
Title: Re: Triplicity
Post by: 2tallbill on August 16, 2008, 08:08:13 PM
I just discovered yet another of my DDs 'borrowing' photos of others, in this case those of 25 y.o. Playboy Playmate Kimberly Holland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimberly_Holland) ;).

Is it possible that a girls MOB agency photo could be borrowed by an online
prostitution businessman as well?

Title: Re: Triplicity
Post by: Shadow on August 17, 2008, 01:48:28 AM
Is it possible that a girls MOB agency photo could be borrowed by an online
prostitution businessman as well?


Yes it is possible. However in the case of using a US playboy model, chances that she is enlisted in a MOB site as Russian are pretty slim.
There have been some cases where the pictures of Dutch 'Soccer wife' Sylvie van der Vaart has been used for a night club in Florida and a brothel in Spain.
Title: Re: Triplicity
Post by: SANDRO43 on August 17, 2008, 05:56:37 AM
Is it possible that a girls MOB agency photo could be borrowed by an online prostitution businessman as well?
Possible, but I'd say unlikely in the case of the typically more modest photos on dating sites. For what purpose ?

Kimberley's photos for instance are used by 15 different hookers on 15 different sites, the purpose being self-promotion/marketing, as in the case of scammers.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 15, 2009, 11:49:30 AM
A long time since I posted an update, but here she is, Alina/Oksana, my DD no. 59 8) :D.

www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Gator on May 15, 2009, 01:55:04 PM
It has been a long time. 

Are you losing your touch..uh...eye?  Are the women using different photos for MOB agencies?  Are there fewer women working both sides of the fence? Are you too busy with other stuff?

Who will protect us if not you?
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 15, 2009, 03:58:54 PM
Interesting questions, Phil.

Are you losing your touch..uh...eye?
I don't think so, at least not yet 8).
Quote
Are the women using different photos for MOB agencies?
Time passes for everybody, however hookers never get publicly older - simply because their sites register them with their age, NOT their birth date ;) - and those with professionally made photos reuse them for years, the chaster ones on dating sites. I hardly forget a pretty face anyway.  
Quote
Are there fewer women working both sides of the fence?
I get that impression. There may be several explanations for that, one being that it takes more concentration to maintain two - or more - separate identities. After all, normal scammers have it easier, scamming AND dating follow more similar patterns.

What I did notice in the recent past is a higher turnover in hooker sites, deaths and births occur at a more frenzied pace than in the past, but their girls often are already familiar faces.  

Quote
Are you too busy with other stuff?
I think you already know the answer to that, as will everybody else very shortly ;).
Quote
Who will protect us if not you?
Basic common sense. Would you believe that a stunner like model Alina could make herself available to 55 year olds, as she stated in her 2006 Bride RU profile, unless wealthy sugar daddies ::)? I remember she had another profile elsewhere stating she was from Bulgaria, but I haven't recovered that yet. Considering her rather low fees, she may be comparatively new at the professional game.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: kievstar on May 21, 2009, 02:42:47 AM
Here is a Kiev girl on EM currently with 2 profiles. 

ID: 5486156  Active within 7 days
Lilie, 27 years Kiev, Ukraine
 I am kind generous and my glass is always half full as opposed to half empty ( always optimistic) I love life generally and want to have a happy home with marriage and children. 


ID: 6170654  Active within 7 days
Liliya, 27 years Kiev, Ukraine
 I am kind generous and my glass is always half full as opposed to half empty ( always optimistic) I love life generally and want to have a happy home with marriage and children. 


I found more than 20 other girls double dipping on EM.  Not just in Kiev and I only spent about 20 minutes looking.  People I know have met this girl.  I prefer were she is 119 pounds and not 121 pounds.  She does this on purpose to generate more traffic.  Nice party girl.  Someday I will do a full report on EM but beware many hookers who will marry there.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 21, 2009, 05:27:21 AM
Here is a Kiev girl on EM currently with 2 profiles. 

ID: 5486156  Active within 7 days
Lilie, 27 years Kiev, Ukraine
 I am kind generous and my glass is always half full as opposed to half empty ( always optimistic) I love life generally and want to have a happy home with marriage and children. 


ID: 6170654  Active within 7 days
Liliya, 27 years Kiev, Ukraine
 I am kind generous and my glass is always half full as opposed to half empty ( always optimistic) I love life generally and want to have a happy home with marriage and children. 


I found more than 20 other girls double dipping on EM.  Not just in Kiev and I only spent about 20 minutes looking.  People I know have met this girl.  I prefer were she is 119 pounds and not 121 pounds.  She does this on purpose to generate more traffic.  Nice party girl.  Someday I will do a full report on EM but beware many hookers who will marry there.

Kievstar, she may well be a Double Dipper, but doesn't ring any bells as Double Dealer, unless you can provide some evidence that her "self-employed" occupation is the world's oldest ;).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Shadow on May 21, 2009, 10:42:29 AM
unless you can provide some evidence that her "self-employed" occupation is the world's oldest ;).
Why does she have to be harvesting apples ????  :P
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 21, 2009, 10:50:45 AM
Why does she have to be harvesting apples ????  :P
I was referring neither to that, nor to playing around with snakes undressed.
:devilish:
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: jdk1963 on June 08, 2009, 01:32:51 PM
I am particulalry irritated by this form of scamming, i.e. known Russian/Ukrainian/etc. prostitutes who post ads on dating sites under different names, looking for foreign husbands.

They usually make a strategic mistake : even though the name is different, they almost invariably use the same photos (usually the chaster ones), probably to save money.

Since I have a good memory for gorgeous girls (which they often are), it is usually easy for me to spot them.

I have devoted a page of my personal website (bilingual Italian/English) to reporting this particular phenomenon, now with 30+ entries and growing. For those interested, the page address is :

http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco-eng.htm

Would you care to share how you came by their fees and services?  :ROFL:  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Sculpto on June 08, 2009, 01:38:51 PM
Sandro.. if you are still working on htis project you are going to want to take a look at craigslist moscow..
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: jdk1963 on June 08, 2009, 02:01:34 PM
I was reading through the list and I remembered the wonderful line from Killing Zoe.


And then there is Case No. 58 NO SEX! You will be humiliated, tied up and punished.


Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on June 08, 2009, 03:34:12 PM
Would you care to share how you came by their fees and services?
Simple, from their 'professional' profiles ;). You can check for yourself on the http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco-eng.htm page by clicking on their YELLOW IDs at right - however, given the high turnover rate of these sites, not ALL of those links are guaranteed to work still (I update them about once a year).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on June 08, 2009, 03:37:04 PM
Sandro.. if you are still working on htis project you are going to want to take a look at craigslist moscow..
Eric, yours is a rather vague reference, at a cursory glance I cannot see anything relevant there :-\. Can you post a more specific link?
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: jdk1963 on June 08, 2009, 04:37:31 PM
Eric, yours is a rather vague reference, at a cursory glance I cannot see anything relevant there :-\. Can you post a more specific link?

http://moscow.craigslist.org/search/ers/?query=w4m

Hope that helps.

Back when I was a young Marine on the Peleliu. Before we pulled into a port we had a video describing the port and the culture etc. etc.  Towards the end of the video there was a how-to on negotiating with the local service providers, including the current going rates.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on June 08, 2009, 04:59:20 PM
http://moscow.craigslist.org/search/ers/?query=w4m
Hope that helps.
Thanks Jdk1963, I had a look, saw a few familiar professional faces, but none that'd qualify as DDs.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: jdk1963 on June 08, 2009, 07:11:29 PM
Thanks Jdk1963, I had a look, saw a few familiar professional faces, but none that'd qualify as DDs.

You don't say! How familiar?  :ROFL:
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: ECOCKS on June 08, 2009, 10:31:58 PM
Who in the world would be interested in picking up one of those gals from Craigslist? Reminded me of those little booklets all over Vegas. That question's rhetorical BTW, not really a conversational gambit.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: jdk1963 on June 08, 2009, 10:49:21 PM
Who in the world would be interested in picking up one of those gals from Craigslist? Reminded me of those little booklets all over Vegas. That question's rhetorical BTW, not really a conversational gambit.

Perhaps this guy!!  [youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yB4rzGdqQSk[/youtube]
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on June 09, 2009, 06:20:11 AM
You don't say! How familiar? :ROFL:
In a virtual, eidetic way ;). After seeing them year after year on different sites, they've become sort of dear old acquaintances ;D. I'd be happy to offer them a pint of Guinness or two, if no Garda is snooping around :evil:.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on September 06, 2009, 07:05:18 AM
Courtesy of My Russian Lady, here's Larissa/Masha, DD #60.

www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: valence on September 15, 2009, 06:50:02 AM
Well done, Sandro! 

Your DD page is incredible...
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on September 15, 2009, 07:50:24 AM
Well done, Sandro!  Your DD page is incredible...
Thanks Val. Fortunately, the DD phenomenon seems to be rather limited (60), but it's one additional pitfall in this venture nevertheless ;).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: BC on September 15, 2009, 09:35:01 AM
Thanks Val. Fortunately, the DD phenomenon seems to be rather limited (60), but it's one additional pitfall in this venture nevertheless ;).

Sandro,

You seem to have a great memory for pretty faces.. and well.. other 'Anatomische Merkmale'  ;D

The '60' may seem like a small number, the tip of an iceberg, but really quite an accomplishment for a human.

Just wait until you can search for a face in Google..  Upload a face and watch the plethora of results..

[edit]  BTW, there are companies out there that do such..  http://abhishek-myspace.blogspot.com/2007/07/face-search-over-internet.html
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: valence on September 17, 2009, 02:32:44 PM
What I have observed on Sandro's site is that these DD's are uniformly 9's or 10's on a scale of 1 to 10.  And if some guy like me who is about 3 out of 10 is trying to pull a 10, then he *deserves* to be scammed. 

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on September 17, 2009, 03:00:30 PM
What I have observed on Sandro's site is that these DD's are uniformly 9's or 10's on a scale of 1 to 10.
Bear in mind, however, that at least 5 of them (actually, 75 entries) - that I know of - are 'borrowing' models' photos- it's not all gold that glitters ;).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: ConnerVT on September 17, 2009, 04:33:38 PM
Sandro,

You seem to have a great memory for pretty faces.. and well.. other 'Anatomische Merkmale'  ;D

The '60' may seem like a small number, the tip of an iceberg, but really quite an accomplishment for a human.

Just wait until you can search for a face in Google..  Upload a face and watch the plethora of results..

[edit]  BTW, there are companies out there that do such..  http://abhishek-myspace.blogspot.com/2007/07/face-search-over-internet.html


There is a reverse image search engine that does just that -- TinEye

http://tineye.com/
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on September 17, 2009, 05:39:07 PM
There is a reverse image search engine that does just that -- TinEye
Thanks Conner, interesting tool. However, its "1.1215 billion images" apparently are not quite enough yet - a search on my avatar gave just 2 results - my website and 1 agency, while the same photo appears on dozen others.

Better results (9) with the attachment, though - a model much favoured by DDs.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: valence on October 03, 2009, 02:55:19 PM
Sandro, I have left you a pm indicting YET ANOTHER DD.

Stupid me, punching above my weight again, this time she's a 9.  Mother of 2, totally straight in every respect, educated, literate, and yes beautiful.  And this one other thing...  apparently she moonlights as a B&D b1tch goddess.  Totally AWESOME transformation!

When will I EVER learn???
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on October 03, 2009, 04:17:44 PM
Sandro, I have left you a pm indicting YET ANOTHER DD.
Thanks Val, she's a Faye Dunaway sort of type. However, your 'evidence' (her 2 suggestive videos) is not conclusive: no nudity, no prices, no contact info IINM. Could even be just a prank :-\. 
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: valence on October 03, 2009, 05:27:52 PM
I bow to your judgement, Sandro. 

However, would you agree it's the same girl?  On the bride site posing with her children fixing food in the kitchen all sweet and domestic like, and then on the Youtube site a BREATH TAKING transformation into a b!tch S&M goddess.  It's the same girl, right?
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on October 03, 2009, 06:03:19 PM
However, would you agree it's the same girl?
I'd say so, the tattoo on her upper left breast is a definite give-away 8). BTW, she also appears in a 3rd Youtube video entitled Smoking Hot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMRakDpWcr0) ;).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on October 04, 2009, 08:36:10 AM
She also has a website (http://luvsexdiscipline.com/), although now stating:
Quote
Posted on September 26th, 2009 by adm
My site was down for the few days and still not restored completly. Wait for the updates.

Still, what it says at bottom:
Quote
Before contacting Me, think about what exactly you are going to offer Me . . I can sip your soul, mind and wallet till you lose your consciousness.
does hint at money. So, no prank ;).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: valence on October 04, 2009, 10:31:32 AM
She also has a website (http://luvsexdiscipline.com/),

Criminey Aitch Crutch!  That's her too!  Good surfing Sandro.  My hat's off to you for that. 

So if she's offering to train pet slaves via video chat, that's gotta mean this is not a false positive.  Who's going to train slaves for free?  Criminey Aitch Crutch!

Good surfing, squire!
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Misha on October 04, 2009, 10:43:14 AM
http://tineye.com/

Fascinating. It is even a Canadian company.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on October 04, 2009, 10:56:52 AM
So if she's offering to train pet slaves via video chat, that's gotta mean this is not a false positive.  Who's going to train slaves for free?
Right. I'll wait until her website is fully back online and showing photos/prices, then maybe add her to my list, since she's not QUITE a real hooker but rather a 'virtual-service provider' 8) ;).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: valence on October 04, 2009, 11:09:38 AM
If it's any use, I checked our messages on the bride site for 26 Sept.  There was this comment from her...

26/09/2009 21:47
Thats a pitty that there`s no downloading option on the site Anyway, my fave one for
today is the last song.
I am studying web-design now. Its damn hard to understand anything from the
articles,but I dont give up.
00.47 here but I wont fall asleep till I understand that css styles
How did u spend your Saturday, Valence?


Which probably means if she can't get her head around CSS styles, it might be a while before the S&M site gets updated...


Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on October 04, 2009, 03:12:50 PM
Which probably means if she can't get her head around CSS styles, it might be a while before the S&M site gets updated...
Can't remember anything specific to S&M in CSSs ::), however one must concede she is admirable for initiative and imagination :D.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on October 12, 2009, 10:18:21 AM
It appears that Miss Cleo aka luvsexdiscipline just joined our ranks today ;).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: docetae on October 12, 2009, 01:51:07 PM
It appears that Miss Cleo aka luvsexdiscipline just joined our ranks today ;).

a true DD in all meanings of this word.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Miss Cleo on October 13, 2009, 07:07:04 AM
Hello,dear gossips.
Of cause I mentioned some heightened attention from your forum and read the topic carefully.
 Communicating only in the narrow circle of whispering loosers made you to offend people undeservedly.
Looks like such poor communication atrophied your brains that you cannot understand the difference between personal life and job.
Oh, I used my name to register here cos I do not hide.
Feel free to check out my site and make a tribute for my "initiative and imagination"  :DTributePage (http://"http://ilove.luvsexdiscipline.com/?page_id=11")
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Miss Cleo on October 13, 2009, 07:08:52 AM
a true DD in all meanings of this word.
Just called my gf (she`s a gynaecologist) and told her that she might be a DD too.

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Shadow on October 13, 2009, 07:17:06 AM
Just called my gf (she`s a gynaecologist) and told her that she might be a DD too.


Miss Cleo it sems that your limited English skills make it hard to understand the nuance.
If the job of a female is to offer services of intimate nature to men in exchange for money, there is the possibility that when meeting a less desirable candidate the job skills are used for private purposes.
That does not mean such woman can not search happiness, however I doubt that in her 'private' search she is giving an honest and upfront description of her job.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Miss Cleo on October 13, 2009, 07:27:26 AM
blah blah

And what are your russian skills comparing to my english? :)
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Shadow on October 13, 2009, 07:36:02 AM
And what are your russian skills comparing to my english? :)
Probably a bit higher..though slang will always be a problem.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Miss Cleo on October 13, 2009, 07:51:47 AM
Probably a bit higher..though slang will always be a problem.
blah-blah...
аффтар фыпей айду)))))))

 I don't see any point in proving a stuff to the audience only wasting time chatting about  how others live
All the best!
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Shadow on October 13, 2009, 08:33:03 AM
blah-blah...
аффтар фыпей айду)))))))

 I don't see any point in proving a stuff to the audience only wasting time chatting about  how others live
All the best!
No need to prove anything dear  :-*
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Gator on October 13, 2009, 03:35:21 PM
 :ROFL:

Who is playing with us?  Is it really her?  Dan could check the IP.

I guess Miss Cleo returned to her dungeon?  She sounds like she could administer a good whoooping and penetration! :o

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: valence on October 17, 2009, 05:03:08 AM
Epilog:  She is no longer a DD.  She has deleted herself from all the dating/romance sites, and keeps only the persona of 'Miss Cleo' alive.  One is reminded of Robert Frost...

TWO roads diverged in a yellow wood, 
And sorry I could not travel both 
And be one traveler, long I stood


She chose the road less travelled and has restored luvsexdiscipline.com to its full splendor.  I never knew the 'Miss Cleo' side of her, just the dating side of her.  And in this persona she was a sweetheart; and she never once came even remotely close to operating a scam in her 'real' persona.  Personally, I am glad to have had the experience. 
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on October 27, 2009, 11:54:11 AM
From Aivelina, whence she sent me a Wink ;) a few days ago, here's Oksana/Svetlana, DD #61 (www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm)

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/002501_1.jpg) (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/p65907_1.jpg)
I'm perplexed by the difference between Oksana's and Svetlana's stated ages (24/43) - which may simply be due to a mis-entry/mis-print - but I'd say they are the same person.

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Gator on October 27, 2009, 04:10:12 PM
Sandro, 

As usual I compliment you for providing this service.  What a sacrifice you make to help men pursue genuine RW.  Most of these women have "that look" in their MOB agency photo, yet some appear wholesome.  Just shows you can not judge a book by its cover.

Am I missing something because the 61 on your summary list does not correspond with the 61 on your detailed list?  There seem to be others like this.

You started this some years ago.  I observe that breasts are larger now.  :D  Business must be good to afford plastic surgery.




















Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on October 27, 2009, 07:28:14 PM
What a sacrifice you make to help men pursue genuine RW.
Yes Phil, only a friend like you can understand the painful aspects of my mission, staring at hundreds of young, naked bodies day after day in order to ferret out the cheaters :( ;D.

Quote
Am I missing something because the 61 on your summary list does not correspond with the 61 on your detailed list?  There seem to be others like this.
Observant of you ;). This depends on the fact that early on I decided to organise the detailed list into 2 separate sequences:

1. DDs with published fees (in order of descending fees).
2. DDs without published fees (some sites don't list them, or show them to paying members only).

As the detailed list grew in size, a couple of years ago I inserted for convenience the summary list, which on the other hand is mostly in chronological order - therefore a DD # in one does not correspond to that in the other (both are calculated sequentially by a JavaScript function, not posted explicitly in the HTML code).

Clicking on the yellow links in the summary used to lead to the corresponding individual sections in the detailed list, but that seems to be working no longer for some still obscure reason with some browsers. I suspect it may have something to do with the frame design I used some 10 years ago when I set out to develop my website - then it was the fashionable thing, albeit a pain in the posterior to code. I am now slowly working on a frameless version, but that'll take a few months to complete. I'll probably take the opportunity to realign the DD #s, as well.

You started this some years ago. I observe that breasts are larger now. :D  Business must be good to afford plastic surgery.
Possibly, but I think it's a random effect, a few of the latest DDs are not very generously endowed.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on November 07, 2009, 08:48:15 PM
MINOR UPDATE

Almost by chance, through a single photo, I just discovered that one of my DDs (#38, Tatyana Malyuga, stated age 21-22 in 2005 and Anastasia 24 in 2006-2007) is ALSO a Iolanta/Lana Borisova/Lana Sgorksa who had several profiles on dating sites in 2004 (where she stated then an age of 36-38).

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on December 18, 2009, 09:16:22 PM
Meet Tany/Tanya, DD #63 (bottom of www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm) ;).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on January 01, 2010, 11:32:11 AM
GENERAL WEBSITE UPDATE

I am now slowly working on a frameless version, but that'll take a few months to complete.
Well, that's taken about 2 months: the complete overhaul of my website is now done.

Frames are gone, and I removed a lot of coloured backgrounds - to obtain a 'cleaner' look - as well as the embedded sound clips. Gone are also the table listings of dating and professional websites - they were mostly out of date anyway, and I could no longer be bothered with maintaining them.

Quote
As the detailed list grew in size, a couple of years ago I inserted for convenience the summary list, which on the other hand is mostly in chronological order - therefore a DD # in one does not correspond to that in the other (both are calculated sequentially by a JavaScript function, not posted explicitly in the HTML code).
The two number sequences are now in agreement.

Quote
Clicking on the yellow links in the summary used to lead to the corresponding individual sections in the detailed list, but that seems to be working no longer for some still obscure reason with some browsers.
The reason is no longer obscure. For the technically minded, the interlinking was previouly based on:

- The summary page including links like: http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#OLYA
- The corresponding section in the detailed list including a <A NAME=OLYA> anchor.

This worked alright with older browsers, but no longer with the newer breed ::). However, replacing the <A NAME=OLYA> in the target page with an ID=OLYA in some other nearby HTML statement restored the linkage.

Enjoy ;D!
www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm

P.S.: if you notice any malfunctions/oddities, please let me know ;).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Chicagoguy on January 01, 2010, 01:32:10 PM
Sandro,

I am curious to know if anyone has ever notified you that he discovered his "true love" is on one of these sites.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on January 01, 2010, 05:14:17 PM
Sandro, I am curious to know if anyone has ever notified you that he discovered his "true love" is on one of these sites.
No notifications yet, although I doubt one would volunteer the tidbit if he made that discovery, rather embarassing to admit, wouldn't you say ;D?
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on January 12, 2010, 10:49:49 AM
DD #63
Going through some old stuff I discovered another DD, actually a 3D ;) since she uses photos belonging to Playboy Playmate Brande Roderick.

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/670826554457983ac75b3e.jpg)
www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#RODERICK

P.S.: it turns that TinEye (http://www.tineye.com/) can be useful to locate 3Ds, I submitted the above photo and it discovered 3 other instances on the 'Net, one of which led me to Playboy eventually.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on January 27, 2010, 10:59:28 AM
DD #64
Here's 36 y.o. Elena - who recently wrote me from YEVA4U - a.k.a. Aleksandra:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/12106642001m.jpg)
www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#Aleksandra
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: antiscammer on February 12, 2010, 03:52:06 AM
Code: [Select]
Anyway, I made a quick scan of some of your pages by way of an exercise, and here's my FREE contribution to you :
1. Haustova T (#141546) is listed as scammer at :
- http://www.stop-scammers....m/profile.asp?profile=120
- http://www.scamalert.free.../T/tatyana-khaustova.html
Yes, you'll right. She is a scammer a long time. Thas is a page include much information about her life http://scammers.name
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 08, 2010, 11:37:17 AM
SCAMMERS/DDs

Going through some old scammer lists, I found a couple of additional DDs ;):

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/1844_3.jpg)  (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/Rozhenkova.jpg)<br>Natalia Nadtoka  Lena Rozhenkova

www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#Nadtoka
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: BillyB on April 08, 2010, 12:31:04 PM
I found a couple of additional DDs ;):


It's safe to say it's a red flag if a woman has double D breasts! I'm sure a study will prove women with bigger breasts can extract more money from men than women with small breasts in scams and in marriage.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: kievstar on April 08, 2010, 01:55:22 PM
small vs bigger breasts on ability to scam.  That is the type of research Al Gore should really be doing.  To bad Bill Clinton did not rub off on him.

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 08, 2010, 03:15:11 PM
It's safe to say it's a red flag if a woman has double D breasts!
Apropos of what ::)? My two new DDs indicate breast sizes of 2 and 3, which would translate to B and C, not DD IINM.
Quote
I'm sure a study will prove women with bigger breasts can extract more money from men than women with small breasts in scams and in marriage.
As a general statement, I'd say that'll depend on individual men's tastes, large breasts are mercilessly the victims of the gravity pull ;).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: BillyB on April 08, 2010, 03:51:28 PM
As a general statement, I'd say that'll depend on individual men's tastes

On freepersonals.ru it shows how many people viewed a lady's profile and put her on their favorite list. Ladies with average looking faces but large breasts on most occasions are more popular than pretty women with small breasts. Here's an example of a popular woman with an average looking face based off her #6 photo but she has lots of cleavage based off the photo in the link below. My conclusion based on looking at tons of profiles at freepersonals.ru is that large breasts are in much more demand than small breasts if everything else physically were equal on a woman.

http://freepersonals.ru/profile?id=351056;pid=627885;
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Jack on April 08, 2010, 04:00:20 PM
large breasts are mercilessly the victims of the gravity pull


euwwww,  the mental imagine alone is enough to almost make me go blind. Hopefully I'll never live to see such.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 08, 2010, 04:32:48 PM
Here's an example of a popular woman with an average looking face based off her #6 photo but she has lots of cleavage based off the photo in the link below.
Being photographed while leaning far forward is the oldest trick in the book for making breasts look larger, again thanks to gravity ;D.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: JohnDearGreen on April 08, 2010, 07:11:11 PM
MINOR UPDATE

Almost by chance, through a single photo, I just discovered that one of my DDs (#38, Tatyana Malyuga, stated age 21-22 in 2005 and Anastasia 24 in 2006-2007) is ALSO a Iolanta/Lana Borisova/Lana Sgorksa who had several profiles on dating sites in 2004 (where she stated then an age of 36-38).

Sandro:

I had a lunch date with Iolanta #38 in Kyiv in 2001.  She was on several dating sites then, #3201 on www.firstdream.com (maybe Jack remembers her) and RL87689 on RussianLadies.com. About 35 years old then.  I met her thru AOL personals.  The photo on the bottom left (leopard skirt) is definitely Iolanta.  However, the other photos do not look like her.  Why do you think they are the same lady?  

She said she was a manager of bands/performers and had a very young daughter matching the age you listed.  She was only a petite 5'3, and not 170cm tall.   I have no idea if she was a pro or not, but my guess was no at that time.  Extremely attractive, and definitely lived in the fast lane though. But, I don't think most of the other photos are her.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Jack on April 08, 2010, 08:54:31 PM

Not sure exactly what Sandro is indicating or trying to say here.  I was curious as to who the DD was I might have and went and looked at Sandro's site.

No. 38 are photos of Tatiana Malyuga from Kharkov.  Tatiana is about 28/29 today. When Tatiana was around 20/21 she was in the porn industry and she made a ton of money, so much she was able to buy her own flat and flat for her mom. Tatiana got out of the porn industry about 4-5 years ago and still lives in Kharkov.

Sandro also has photos of Iolanta from Kiev mixed in with photos of Tatiana. Iolanta is today about 43, 44 and probably one of the most beautiful 43/44 year old women in the world today. Iolanta is a wonderful, sincere, good woman and I am not sure why she is being portrayed or shown to be anything other than that.

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Makkin on April 08, 2010, 11:27:02 PM
Hi Sandro,


   I visited your website and like it a lot. I noticed you had an area of flags from places you visited and those included the USA flag and the Southern "battle" flag. The flag you have listed for the southern states is not actually the confederate flag but it is the one used for battle.


   I really admire your education in many areas and wish I had a tenth of the knowledge you have. My posting seems to be along the lines of Eskimo speaking but still as we speak the weather here is cool to cold...lol


Makkin
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 09, 2010, 05:26:04 AM
Jack & John, this photo:
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/3830966729283.jpg)
appears alongside these other two:
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/304107P1.jpg) (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/304107P2.jpg)
on Anastasya's profile on 1000 Adult Personals (http://1000adultpersonals.com/a402p3830.htm), indicated as Last verified: Jun 10, 2007.

I, too, was rather surprised by this Tatiana/Iolanta/Lana connection, but why should Tatiana 'borrow' the photo - if not hers - of an older woman and put it on her profile :-\? The photos bear a certain if not conclusive resemblance that could be explained by the passage of some 20 years - some hookers do post more recent photos of themselves, possibly after some clients' complaints when meeting them in person - a number of sites feature a client's comment facility.

If you both are quite certain that Iolanta has nothing to do with Tatiana and her business, I shall remove her photos from my list.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Jack on April 09, 2010, 06:54:39 AM

but why should Tatiana 'borrow' the photo - if not hers - of an older woman

I think it's probably not Tatiana doing the borrowing.



Sandro, the photo you have of Tatiana is from 2004*, when she was 23*.

The photo of you have of Iolanta is from 2003*, when she was 37*


* plus or minus a year.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 09, 2010, 07:45:30 AM
I think it's probably not Tatiana doing the borrowing.
Who is, then? The website? I'd say that possibility is rather unlikely - not much sense in marketing a 23 y.o. with the photo of a 37 y.o., attractive though the latter may be ::). 
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Jack on April 09, 2010, 08:12:50 AM

Who is, then? The website? I'd say that possibility is rather unlikely


Ohhh my, unbelievable.   That possibility is rather unlikely you say?   What an absolutely unbelievable statement.




The photos bear a certain if not conclusive resemblance


Sandro, just as your "certain" if not conclusive deduction these photos are one in the same person is 1000% WRONG, are you saying that you believe that Tatiana and or Iolanta was really working for 1000 Adult Personals, and that because this adult website has posted a photo of 37 year old Iolanta saying her name is Anastasia and she is 24 is accurate because it WAS VERIFIED is something we should believe?  Wow!  Now that is unbelievable.


Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 09, 2010, 08:36:01 AM
I noticed you had an area of flags from places you visited and those included the USA flag and the Southern "battle" flag. The flag you have listed for the southern states is not actually the confederate flag but it is the one used for battle.
Well, I'm in a bit of a quandary as to what Confederate flag I should display ;).

According to FOTW (http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/us-csa1.html), the First National Flag of the Confederacy is given in 2 versions:
(http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/u/us-csa7.gif) (http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/u/us-csa.gif)

The Second National flag of the Confederacy (Stainless Banner) is:
(http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/u/us-csa2.gif)

Then we have the Third National Flag of the Confederacy:
(http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/u/us-csa3.gif)

Also, the flag of the Army of Northern Virginia and the Second Naval Jack (Official):
(http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/u/us-csanj.gif) (http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/u/us-anv.gif)

Quote
The Stars and Bars looked too much like the Stars and Stripes. The Stainless Banner looked too much like a surrender flag. The last red-barred flag was used for only a week or two, so no one knew about it. Basically, the Confederacy's national flags were flops, and so the battle flag has prospered post-war. Also, one of the major sources of pro-Confederate feeling after the war were veterans' associations, who naturally associated the Confederacy with the military and with the battle flag.
Sandy, through Josh Fruhlinger, 24 January 1996
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/us-csa.html#civwar

 :D
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 09, 2010, 08:44:18 AM
Sandro, just as your "certain" if not conclusive deduction these photos are one in the same person is 1000% WRONG, are you saying that you believe that Tatiana and or Iolanta was really working for 1000 Adult Personals, and that because this adult website has posted a photo of 37 year old Iolanta saying her name is Anastasia and she is 24 is accurate because it WAS VERIFIED is something we should believe?  Wow!  Now that is unbelievable.
Jack, I'm simply saying that I see no other logical explanation for that website to post those 3 photos together, except for the one I suggested .

Can you provide an alternative, more convincing one? Human error? A deliberate attempt to slur Iolanta's reputation?
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Jack on April 09, 2010, 08:56:32 AM
Sandro you have somewhat of slimy website that has taken/stolen many photos of women and put them on their website and trying to enhance men to sign-up for these services.  Many of the women whose photos this agency offers as women who are available, are not available, they are bait. Men are thinking they are going to get a certain women, even up to the time she knocks on the man's door. Sometimes the women might resemble the woman in the photo or she looks close enough he does not say anything.  Sometimes the women knocking on the door is even better than he was hoping for and sometimes the man will say, ..."You, your Anastasia? Your the photo of the lady on the site?' at which time this woman will say something like "No, Anastasia was not available, they sent me, will I do?" as she looks at you with that devishly grin.

There was no human error. It is fraud.  


Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: BillyB on April 09, 2010, 09:01:11 AM
No. 38 are photos of Tatiana Malyuga from Kharkov.  Tatiana is about 28/29 today. When Tatiana was around 20/21 she was in the porn industry and she made a ton of money, so much she was able to buy her own flat and flat for her mom. Tatiana got out of the porn industry about 4-5 years ago and still lives in Kharkov.

IF true that Tatiana isn't working in the porn industry now but looking for a husband or a ticket to another country, would she still qualify being a
"Double Dealer"? I'd say if a guy offered her a large sum of cash, she'd take off her clothes pretty fast.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Jack on April 09, 2010, 09:03:13 AM
IF true that Tatiana isn't working in the porn industry now but looking for a husband or a ticket to another country, would she still qualify being a
"Double Dealer"? I'd say if a guy offered her a large sum of cash, she'd take off her clothes pretty fast.




BillyB, Tatiana is happily married to a local Kharkov man.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Markus on April 09, 2010, 11:57:53 AM
Being photographed while leaning far forward is the oldest trick in the book for making breasts look larger, again thanks to gravity ;D.

Us fisherman know this trick. When you catch a pretty good fish, hold it away from your body towards the camera and it looks bigger.
I'd rather be deceived by the gravity photo though.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: JohnDearGreen on April 09, 2010, 01:44:26 PM
Jack & John, this photo:
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/3830966729283.jpg)
appears alongside these other two:
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/304107P1.jpg) (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/304107P2.jpg)
on Anastasya's profile on 1000 Adult Personals (http://1000adultpersonals.com/a402p3830.htm), indicated as Last verified: Jun 10, 2007.
It is my opinion that the only photo of Iolanta is the one at the bottom left of #38 with the leopard skirt and white blouse.   The blonde pictures above look nothing like her.  The other picture with the leopard top looks much younger than Iolanta.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Jack on April 09, 2010, 02:07:45 PM
JohnDearGreen, I believe the following are also photos of Iolanta, all of which were on various websites 8-7-6 years ago.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: kievstar on April 09, 2010, 02:38:05 PM
I wish I was single 8 years ago that is a nice looking 35 year old woman in Iolanta.  Best I have ever seen on the web.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Makkin on April 09, 2010, 03:49:59 PM
Sandro,


  Thanks for the beautiful flags on display and I'm in a hurry to see a submarine photo...lol. Just kidding..


   I really like your website and admire your work.


Makkin
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Gator on April 09, 2010, 04:01:59 PM
...."You, your Anastasia? Your the photo of the lady on the site?" at which time this woman will say something like "No, Anastasia was not available, they sent me, will I do?" as she looks at you with that devishly grin.


What happens if the man says he wants the woman in the photo?  If he declines to pay, does the working girl summon the following man for a short visit.

http://exile.ru/articles/detail.php?ARTICLE_ID=7618&IBLOCK_ID=35&phrase_id=40650
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Gator on April 09, 2010, 04:09:26 PM
Sandro,

Please inform the EU that its flag copies the CSA's first national flag.  Considering that the CSA became defunct 150 years ago, there will be no copyright infringement charges filed.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Jack on April 09, 2010, 04:53:17 PM
What happens if the man says he wants the woman in the photo?  


Gator if this happens the woman will make a phone call, letting the office know she is not accepted,
then ask's for reasonable taxi money. 
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: kievstar on April 10, 2010, 07:24:54 AM
Any girl I ever picked out of Anastiaweb showed up and they have numerous offices in Kiev - many on 2 hour notice.  I was living in Kiev at the time but 100% of the women I selected showed up and I met more than 50.  But I was towards the 26 -32 age range normally. 


I do not see the scam with anastiaweb other than the office workers right the letters and many women under 25 are not interested in dating. Its actually good for the serious men as the men chasing the young women under 25 tend to waste their time on false hope. Its healthy to have scam in the system to prevent the non serious men or stupid men from doing well. 


Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 10, 2010, 09:21:04 AM
Alright, I removed all photos/mentions of Iolanta from my list, in consideration of:

1. Her tenuous physical resemblance to Tatiana Malyuga - height in particular.
2. Her 2 'character witnesses' - Jack &  JohnDearGreen.

The puzzle of her photo on 1000 Adult Personals still remains, but when in doubt I prefer to err on the safe side ;).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on June 04, 2010, 04:05:18 PM
DD #67

Here's plump Tatiana/Lilya - not much to look at, but a DD nevertheless ;).

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/lp2507_1.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#Lilya
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on June 07, 2010, 08:11:31 AM
DD #68

And here is Snejanna/Katya:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/40781_o.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#Snejanna
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on July 03, 2010, 12:33:07 PM
DD #69

Yesterday I received through Aivelina a virtual kiss from 25 y.o. Angelika, who looked vaguely familiar. Initially I was not entirely certain of her also being 20 y.o. Alyona/Dasha, but IMO the clincher is their VERY slim waist ;).

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/002486_2.jpg) (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/DASHA203.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#rose-sweetangel
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on July 10, 2010, 04:38:29 PM
DD #70

Karina, a.k.a. Sasha:
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/jk5xf4wn.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#KARINA
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on September 11, 2010, 11:25:29 AM
DD #71

Galina Yaroslavskaya, a.k.a. Diana/Polina:
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/malbum_200135389.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#Yaroslavskaya
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: facetrock on September 11, 2010, 06:55:21 PM
  Sandro, your really screwing up my fantasy :wallbash:
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on October 25, 2010, 10:58:57 AM
DD #72

Katya a.k.a. Eva (not many details, yet):
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/27025_O.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#Katya-Eva
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on November 12, 2010, 11:11:12 AM
DD #73

Scammer Alena Korolyeva/Elena Koroeva, a.k.a. Violla:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/20211753-531.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#Koroeva

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on November 15, 2010, 12:16:57 PM
DD #74

Actually not a Double but a Triple Dealer, since they are all using the photos of Czech porn star Zdenka Podkapov ;).

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/72173139-a2.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#Zdenka
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on November 16, 2010, 11:41:15 AM
DD #48
Update
It turns out that this DD, too, is a Triple Dealer: their photos are of Hungarian porn star Eve Angel (a.k.a. Eva Shine, Marina Mendoza, Katie, Daphne, Severine)

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/4739b9da.jpg)
http://www.eveangel.com/preview/aboutme/
Title: Trecherous Tarts
Post by: SANDRO43 on January 02, 2011, 06:15:14 PM
I've been feeding TinEye many photos of FSUW hookers, and in my estimate about 20% of them are using photos "borrowed" from models/porn stars who appeared on Playboy and Penthouse - mostly US but also UK and a fair representation from the Czech Republic >:(. It seems it's not an FSU-only practice since some of the same "borrowed" photos also turned up on a Brazilian site :-\.

Even tarts cannot be trusted :(  :seething:.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on February 15, 2011, 06:14:06 PM
DD #75

Four days ago I received through 1st International a letter from a smokinghotkova that looked familiar. It took me a while to find her again, but here she is ;D:
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/1000334264_1_45760.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#Sunshine_Natali80
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on March 30, 2011, 10:07:42 AM
DD #76
Meet Olga (25 y.o.)/ Olya (40 y.o.) from St. Petersburg:
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/3302_a163722a.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#Olgatim

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 08, 2011, 10:07:20 AM
DD #77
Anastasija/Tatyana:
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/pr2_8294_1.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#BOOTS

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Muzh on April 08, 2011, 11:01:56 AM
DD #68

And here is Snejanna/Katya:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/40781_o.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#Snejanna

Sandro, do you know if this is a real woman or the picture of an actress/model?

Same for the girl following this one?

Rrrrrrrrrrrrr

Arrooooo
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 08, 2011, 03:40:26 PM
Sandro, do you know if this is a real woman or the picture of an actress/model? Same for the girl following this one?
As I say on my page (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#Snejanna), BOTH are models of one kind or another (see top of that page for a list of all my 33 Triple Dealers ™ ;)).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on August 05, 2011, 08:51:44 AM
DD #78
Vika/Lera:
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/11419741594d4147a3ee2bf.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#Vyborg
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on February 17, 2012, 01:21:18 PM
DD #79

Today I received through Mingles a virtual kiss from 31-y.o. Marinashka:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/748810515201202121349158007882.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#MORAN

Not really a Double but a Triple Dealer, since she's using the photos of US porn model Crissy Moran, as is done by at least 16 hookers ;).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Gator on February 19, 2012, 09:59:33 AM
Sandro,
 
It has taken you over six months to detect a new Double Dealer.  In past years, your keen eye alerted us to new examples every month or so.
Are you okay?   :)
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on February 19, 2012, 11:43:59 AM
Phil, not my fault if they don't crop up more regularly these days :-\.

However, I have already identified some 200 other models whose photos are/have been used by hookers but NOT YET by MOBs ;), therefore I cannot include them in my list since they do not qualify as Double Dealers - I had considered the idea of putting them in a separate list on a different page, but it'd be a long job.

So let's say that I have plenty of ammunition waiting in the wings ;D.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: BillyB on February 19, 2012, 03:40:32 PM
not my fault if they don't crop up more regularly these days :-\ .


It's because you're doing a good job keeping those beautiful bad naked girls off the street and keeping them away from us innocent decent marriage minded men. I feel sorry for any man who gets involved with those women.....for more than 30 minutes because there ain't much good they can give after that..
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on February 19, 2012, 04:07:38 PM
It's because you're doing a good job keeping those beautiful bad naked girls off the street...
Billy, I'm not Bloomberg and cannot claim any merit in policing the FSU streets, IINM they're all home/hotel workers already ;D.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on February 22, 2012, 02:09:00 AM
I had considered the idea of putting them in a separate list on a different page, but it'd be a long job.
I had some time on my hands, so I decided to give it a go and prepared a new page listing 163 models whose photos were filched:

http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/STOLEN-eng.HTM
Enjoy ;D
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on June 05, 2012, 12:03:23 PM
DD #80

Today a new girl, 26 y.o. Lenochka Konfetochka, appeared on ANTHEA Club:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/036621_1.jpg)

Again, not just a Double but a Triple Dealer, since she's using the photos of Russian photo model Anastasia Braun, as is done by at least 13 hookers.

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/1093.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#BRAUN1
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on June 06, 2012, 11:10:06 AM
DD #81

24 y.o. Natali, a similar case today from Dolce Indi, a site related to ANTHEA Club and AIVELINA:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/006897_1.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#Diordiychuk1

Using the photos of Ukrainian model Eugenia Diordiychuk.

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on November 04, 2012, 08:21:24 AM
DD #82

Tanechka 46/Tatyana 35:
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/1000302943_1_98096.jpg)
www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#Tanechka1

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on December 17, 2012, 11:39:03 AM
DD #83

25 y.o. Anna Morozova from Donetsk:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/19162416544dfd263c5ba6e.jpg)
www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#Stankova1

Actually a "Triple Dealer", using photos of Czeck porn model Katerina Stankova.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: CDW on December 17, 2012, 12:25:30 PM
DD #83

25 y.o. Anna Morozova from Donetsk:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/19162416544dfd263c5ba6e.jpg)
www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#Stankova1

Actually a "Triple Dealer", using photos of Czeck porn model Katerina Stankova.

I received the letter from this loser in September, when she had a DIFFERENT photo from a site when I found her.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on December 17, 2012, 03:01:59 PM
I received the letter from this loser in September, when she had a DIFFERENT photo from a site when I found her.
Can you supply more details as to where you found her?
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: CDW on December 17, 2012, 03:58:50 PM
Can you supply more details as to where you found her?

It was from cherryblossoms.com site and she (different photo) had been removed.  This photo (on your posting) wasn't appear in the CB, but send me a letter from exactly the same e-mail that the different photo lady gave me!!

It was the mistake she gave me, even if I were a newbie!!

95% of Russian / Ukrainian ladies in Cherryblossoms site are scammers!!!  CB site is majority for Asian girls anyway
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Muzh on January 15, 2013, 09:48:00 AM
I always wonder what kind of stupid jackass would go for such obvious skanks.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Gator on January 16, 2013, 09:01:23 AM
I always wonder what kind of stupid jackass would go for such obvious skanks.

Those who suffer from cranial-phallic blood shunting.    :ROFL: :ROFL:
 
 
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on January 16, 2013, 05:22:42 PM
Those who suffer from cranial-phallic blood shunting. :ROFL: :ROFL:
A brain-pr!ck bypass ;)?
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: CDW on February 06, 2013, 11:04:22 AM
only naive men would look these sort of women.  They only see the external beauty.  They should remember that external beauty will fade!

If they want a trophy wife, why not get a mannequin!!  8)
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Shadow on February 06, 2013, 01:11:00 PM
only naive men would look these sort of women.  They only see the external beauty.  They should remember that external beauty will fade!

If they want a trophy wife, why not get a mannequin!!  8)
That is why many of these kind of women would complain it is impossible for them to get a normal man.  Like the men that get blinded, you too judge because of external beauty.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on February 10, 2013, 08:00:15 AM
DD #84

26/21 y.o. Marina Kotova/Masha from Markovka/Kiev:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/MarinaKotova1.jpg)
www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#MarinaKotova1
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on February 24, 2013, 12:03:44 PM
DD #85

28/21 y.o. Anna/Alyona from Sharhorod/Moscow:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/003276_2.jpg)
www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#annyshkka1
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on March 20, 2013, 10:26:17 AM
FYI, I've updated my page Stolen Photos (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/STOLEN-eng.HTM) with 50 more models, reaching a grand total of 295 unwitting picture donors to FSUW hookers.

Paraphrasing what the Bard wrote, "Something is rotten in the state of FSU" 8) ;D.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 16, 2013, 11:15:04 AM
DD #86

28/21 y.o. Viktorya/Evgenya-Inga from Mariupol/Moscow:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/p129341-1.jpg)
www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#ViktoryaEvgenyaInga1
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on August 25, 2013, 07:43:49 AM
DD #87

26/22 y.o. Yulia Tkachenko/Dasha from Schastye:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/184.jpg)
www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#Tkachenko1
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: ML on August 25, 2013, 10:58:13 AM
DD #86
28/21 y.o. Viktorya/Evgenya-Inga from Mariupol/Moscow:
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/p129341-1.jpg)
www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#ViktoryaEvgenyaInga1 (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#ViktoryaEvgenyaInga1)

Are those flotation devices?
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on August 25, 2013, 03:39:27 PM
Are those flotation devices?
Or relaxation pillows ;)?
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Anotherkiwi on August 25, 2013, 05:49:28 PM
Or relaxation pillows ;) ?

Can't see anyone relaxing around those "pillows" - they're a bit too lumpy for my taste.  :P
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on August 25, 2013, 06:35:41 PM
FYI, I've updated my page Stolen Photos (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/STOLEN-eng.HTM) with more models, reaching a grand total of 481 unwitting picture donors to FSUW hookers.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on September 09, 2013, 04:33:52 PM
DD #88

30-35 y.o. Inna from Mosccow:
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/1382737574cee596d59125.jpg)
www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#InnaInna1
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: BillyB on September 10, 2013, 08:05:12 AM
 
Enough talk. We need to get those girls off the street. I'll go after the girl who possesses two flotation devices in post #375.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on October 24, 2013, 05:35:40 PM
DD #89

27-24 y.o. Daria/Yana from Mosccow:
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/373416086490a1317add5b.jpg)
www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#DariaYana1
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: tfcrew on October 24, 2013, 07:20:49 PM
I think it's funny when the guys ask 'is that a real girl or an actress/model/hooker/?'.. Like these individuals are not real persons.
They were what?..manufactured somewhere :rolleyes:
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Ooooops on October 24, 2013, 09:04:40 PM
Wow!   And I mean WOW!    :D :D :D
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on December 08, 2013, 10:27:07 AM
DD #90

Irina 26 y.o./Nicole 24-27  y.o. from Chernivtsi/Brussels:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/021834_2.jpg)
www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#IrinaNicole1
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Vaughn on December 08, 2013, 10:49:42 AM
DD #90

Irina 26 y.o./Nicole 24-27  y.o.

I'm a nice young girl looking for my soul mate.

200/1 hour, 300/2 hours, 400/3 hours, 500/6 hours, 600/night, 800/24 hours, 600/24 extra day

LMAO ~ Good find, Sandro.






Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on December 12, 2013, 06:01:21 PM
DD #91

Olesya 23/Marika-Yulianna 21 y.o. from Moscow/Ekaterinburg:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/15339158554f1fd3696a98f.jpg)
www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#OlesyaYulianna1
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on December 12, 2013, 06:43:24 PM
FYI, I've updated my page Stolen Photos (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/STOLEN-eng.HTM) with more models, reaching a grand total of 481 unwitting picture donors to FSUW hookers.
The total now stands at 614 from 29 countries, and is constantly rising ;). No honesty with these girls 8) :D.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: ajb on December 18, 2013, 01:06:59 AM
Great resource, SANDRO43.

I've found it wise to use reverse image searching to check any photos on a site and it's useful for cross-reference names and other such things. Google Chrome has a good extension (http://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/tineye-reverse-image-sear/haebnnbpedcbhciplfhjjkbafijpncjl) that you can use to make it easier to run a search. I'm sure other browsers have it too.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on December 18, 2013, 08:00:28 AM
Google Chrome has a good extension (http://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/tineye-reverse-image-sear/haebnnbpedcbhciplfhjjkbafijpncjl) that you can use to make it easier to run a search. I'm sure other browsers have it too.
I've used TinEye in the past, but I prefer Google Image Search since it came out: faster, more results, etc.

TinEye is more accurate on a photo that has been altered/Photoshopped, it obtains a 'fingerprint' of it and stores the data for later reverse searches, along with a link to the page it came from which is then offered as search result. Its problem is that that page may change over time, or even disappear, so that the result of clicking the link may be a page WITHOUT the searched photo, or a 404 error (page not found).

I had complained about this to the developers in their Forum, and they replied that they might give a link to the copy of the original source page, too - which is also stored in their DB - so that one could see the original context, but nothing came of it. Maybe it's some legal issue ::), since Google once had that option, too, but no longer.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on December 23, 2013, 10:38:47 AM
The total now stands at 614 from 29 countries.
Current total: 743  from 32 countries. I think I'll have some problems remembering all those faces, et al. :P ;D.

http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/STOLEN-eng.HTM (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/STOLEN-eng.HTM)
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on January 27, 2014, 11:05:03 AM
Current total: 796  from 34 countries: http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/STOLEN-eng.HTM.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on March 14, 2014, 12:47:00 PM
DD #92

I could not omit to add ;): Vanila_Sky 26/Zhanna 24 y.o. from SPB:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/1108686_9v0gq.jpg)
www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#Vanila_Sky1
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: ANTHONY OLIVER on March 22, 2014, 08:10:51 AM
I have updated my "Double Dealer" page :

http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco-eng.htm

As anticipated yesterday, it also features hooker/scammer ELENA MARDANOVA who contacted me from  Date Me Free and worked me over very methodically : 19 letters and 30+ photos from 8th January to 24th March 2006, first with a weekly and eventually daily tempo. She was not aware that I knew of her "other" activity. Something of an exception, this girl : her "pro" photos show no nudity at all, and apparently she has none of that type (I asked to make sure).



(http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/Users/oliver/Desktop/T5Xpuy7.jpg)
I am just checking something Sandro. Perhaps this woman is a prostitute of sorts.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on March 22, 2014, 05:50:22 PM
DD #93

27 y.o. Imiliya/Lena. from Lisichansk/SPB:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/180251_b_23178566592307470514.jpg)
www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#Imiliya1
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: ANTHONY OLIVER on March 25, 2014, 11:30:40 AM
I am particulalry irritated by this form of scamming, i.e. known Russian/Ukrainian/etc. prostitutes who post ads on dating sites under different names, looking for foreign husbands.

They usually make a strategic mistake : even though the name is different, they almost invariably use the same photos (usually the chaster ones), probably to save money.

Since I have a good memory for gorgeous girls (which they often are), it is usually easy for me to spot them.

I have devoted a page of my personal website (bilingual Italian/English) to reporting this particular phenomenon, now with 30+ entries and growing. For those interested, the page address is :

http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco-eng.htm
(http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1419288051655090&l=501a8f0777)
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 08, 2014, 09:31:10 AM
DD #94

Nataliya/SelenaGabor from Nikolaev/Warsaw:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/126781.jpg)
www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#SelenaGabor1
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 02, 2014, 09:14:17 AM
STOLEN PHOTOS

Current total: 876  from 39 countries: http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/STOLEN-eng.HTM.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: 2tallbill on May 04, 2014, 06:13:35 PM
Bill, the fact that the two heights are markedly different does not mean much by itself, if you look at other profiles you'll see that stated measures are often inconsistent.

I think there is a marked resemblance between the two sets of photos. However, if you can vouchsafe for Mila-Maria's character, I shall gladly remove her from the list ;).

Looks like Maria is still looking for a husband all these years later.
http://www.love-formula.com/Mariya5487.html

However, now her dating profile has her listed at 5' 4" to 5' 5" she's actually
about 5' 9"

English: I can read and write but can't speak yet
Her English has gone down hill quite quickly since she was pretty fluent all
those years ago.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 05, 2014, 08:52:27 AM
Thanks for  the tip Bill, I've updated her profile - actually, she had already appeared on Love Formula in May, 2006 with the same data but a different nickname (Mila-Maria 25) and registration number (3315).

BTW, for logical reasons I've split the Double Dealers' table into two separate tables on the same pages:

- Double Dealers' table (66, own photos)
- Triple Dealers' table (28, stolen photos)

http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: BillyB on May 05, 2014, 01:40:51 PM

Sandro, I go to your website for the music. Big Band Ballroom is my favorite. The naked women are a close second though.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 05, 2014, 03:46:46 PM
Sandro, I go to your website for the music. Big Band Ballroom is my favorite. The naked women are a close second though.
What :o! Isn't A enough :D? Maybe you should have her take some music lessons ;D:
(http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/30600000/Marilyn-Monroe-marilyn-monroe-30687165-500-595.jpg)
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: BillyB on May 05, 2014, 09:13:51 PM
What :o! Isn't A enough :D?



Me wife has a rule. I can look but I can't touch!
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Shadow on May 06, 2014, 02:42:08 AM

Me wife has a rule. I can look but I can't touch!
One would think that marriage would change that.... :P
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 06, 2014, 09:50:03 AM
For the historically minded: I have added A Brief History of the Professional Sites in the Former Soviet Union to my page http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#History (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#History).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on August 06, 2014, 08:39:34 AM
STOLEN PHOTOS

Current total: 1,021  from 42 countries: http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/STOLEN-eng.HTM.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on January 30, 2015, 12:44:47 PM
DD #67

Olesya/Varya from Odessa/Moscow:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/2a522812-21f4-482a-8956-7934077757f3.jpg)
www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#Varya1

P.S.: the DD number is now lower due recent migrations of Double to Triple Dealers ;).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 05, 2015, 10:05:33 AM
DDs #67 & 68

- Aliona/Valerya from Kharkov/Moscow,
- Valeria Novitskaya, Marina Demchenko/Alisa, Eva, Kristina, Yana scammer from Nikolaev, Kiev, Voronezh/Moscow:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/russian-bride-in-bikini-aliona-013a1114-320.jpg)  (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/lp17_1.jpg)
www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#Aliona1,
www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#Novitskaya1

Also a new Triple Dealer, Oksana/Natashka-Sonya-Varya using the photos of Ukrainian model Tanya Voloschuk:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/photo_1_10081.jpg) 
www.floriani.it/sitirussi/triplogioco.htm#Voloschuk2

P.S.: the DD number is now lower due recent migrations of Double to Triple Dealers ;).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on August 08, 2015, 08:35:52 AM
DD #67

- Elizabeth/Alina, Sonya from Odessa/Moscow, also known as scammer Marina Sonova:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/fbb60598-ec35-42cb-b6e7-803728687444.jpg)
www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#Sonova1

She is on Anastasia Date & related sites.

P.S.: the DD number is now lower due recent migrations of Double to Triple Dealers ;).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: BillyB on August 08, 2015, 09:48:37 AM
She is on Anastasia Date & related sites.



Is the site below one of the related sites you're talking about? She's there! Thank you Sandro for helping men avoid drop dead gorgeous and naked women. Lust gets men in trouble. We can't think straight. You'll set us on the right path.


 I see you've composed new music. Sounds good!


http://www.floriani.it/ballroom-eng.htm
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on August 08, 2015, 11:21:00 AM
Is the site below one of the related sites you're talking about? She's there!
Which ones do you mean? I found her on Russian Brides, Adv Seek and Candy Lips, too: given that the IDs (1720267) are identical to that on Anastasia Dates, I concluded that they are all related.
Quote
I see you've composed new music. Sounds good!
My Bossa? Thank you, immodestly I think it's not bad at all :D.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: BillyB on August 08, 2015, 02:24:18 PM


Strangers in the Night isn't working for me.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on August 08, 2015, 03:18:29 PM
Strangers in the Night isn't working for me.
Thank you for reporting it, Billy. It was due to my blasted Unix server differentiating between upper and lowercase in file names :arguing:. Fixed now.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on August 14, 2015, 11:44:50 AM
DD #68

- Alyona/Veronika from Kharkov/St. Petersburg:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/ALIONA21.jpg)
www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#Alyona-Veronika1

She is on an Anastasia-related site.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on September 27, 2015, 11:39:28 AM
DDs 69th & 70th

Kristina/Vasilisa-Yulenka and Juliya/Oksana, both from Kiev/Moscow:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/1000446313.jpg)   (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/s58333156.jpg)

http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#Kristina1  (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#Kristina1)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#Juliya-Oksana1 (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#Juliya-Oksana1)
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on February 01, 2016, 01:45:36 AM
71st DD
Marina Starchak/Marinochka-Alisa from Moscow:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/55652488.jpg)

http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#Starchak1

This woman is incredibly dumb: she posted on V Kontakte ALL the photos she used on professional sites, as well as scanned replicas of her profiles on 2 of them:

(http://pp.vk.me/c629131/v629131518/975b/uOcqoe2rvlk.jpg)

(http://pp.vk.me/c629131/v629131518/9736/5-fFC4gA3nI.jpg)

I was not able to identify the above sites, if someone knows them please inform me ;). Also, I was not able to obtain a meaningful translation of her position (Rukovoditel Iuridicheskovo Otdela): I assume it relates to a Legal Dept., I'd be grateful for a fuller translation :D.


 
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: ML on February 01, 2016, 09:36:29 AM
(Rukovoditel Iuridicheskovo Otdela)

Sandro, spouse tells me it is:  Chief of Legal Department.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on February 01, 2016, 11:04:18 AM
(Rukovoditel Iuridicheskovo Otdela)
Sandro, spouse tells me it is:  Chief of Legal Department.
Thank you very much, ML :D. One would think that she wouldn't need extra cash in that position, but maybe she has additional motivations :-\?
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on July 10, 2016, 04:42:16 PM
72nd DD
Alya Barda, Galina from Yuzhny, Odessa /Dasha from Moscow:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/cebc73ff-2c57-4c0c-946b-3cd56f346d95.jpg)

http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doublegallery-eng.htm#AlyaBarda

Another dumb girl, posting on V Kontakte all the photos she used on the professional site.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on December 18, 2016, 10:07:44 AM
73rd DD
Olga Volkova from Kiev /Anna-Malvina-Mila-Rita-Sasha-Zlata from  Kiev, Lvov, Cheboksary, Moscow, Israel, St. Petersburg, Magnitogorsk:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/2375430001.jpg) (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/2375430002.jpg)

http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#VOLKOVA

Also known as scammer.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: alex330 on December 18, 2016, 11:02:59 AM
Sandro, have you ever been unfortunate enough to meet any of these DD's in your adventures?
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on December 18, 2016, 11:20:51 AM
Sandro, have you ever been unfortunate enough to meet any of these DD's in your adventures?
Not in real life ;D, some of them only contacted me through dating sites.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Anotherkiwi on December 18, 2016, 04:50:44 PM
73rd DD
Olga Volkova from Kiev /Anna-Malvina-Mila-Rita-Sasha-Zlata from  Kiev, Lvov, Cheboksary, Moscow, Israel, St. Petersburg, Magnitogorsk:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/2375430001.jpg) (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/2375430002.jpg)

http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#VOLKOVA

Also known as scammer.

Obviously LOVES travelling!  :ROFL:
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on January 10, 2017, 06:11:52 PM
74th DD
Viktopi from Spoleto-Viktorie Shtanga from Novosibirsk / Alina-Masha from St. Petersburg, Kiev:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/x_ad0b8e38.jpg)

http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#VIKTOPI

Also known as scammer.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Brasscasing on January 10, 2017, 07:16:00 PM
74th DD
Viktopi from Spoleto-Viktorie Shtanga from Novosibirsk / Alina-Masha from St. Petersburg, Kiev:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/x_ad0b8e38.jpg)

http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#VIKTOPI

Also known as scammer.

Unfortunate, really.

She's an attractive young woman and would have no problem landing pretty well any man she was interested in.

...Wasted life. :(

Good resource, Sandro. You have more patience than I do. :)

Brass
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on January 10, 2017, 08:04:27 PM
Good resource, Sandro. You have more patience than I do. :)
I also have more time on my hands, most likely ;D.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on January 12, 2017, 06:06:58 PM
75th DD
Tanya Voloschuk-Helena from Uzhhorod, Vechta / Vera-Zina from Moscow:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/thumb_1Z.jpg)

http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#VOLOSHCHUK
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: BillyB on January 12, 2017, 10:11:35 PM
She's an attractive young woman and would have no problem landing pretty well any man she was interested in.


She probably is landing all the men she's interested in. Men with money or men too stupid to hold onto their little money. Utilizing their beauty and body for personal gain seems to be the goal of many women in this thread.

...Wasted life. :(


She's probably saying the same thing about our lives! Using and taking advantage of people or trading our bodies for money is the way to get ahead in life.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Brasscasing on February 05, 2017, 07:55:22 PM

Do you know the lass in the photo even knows her images are being used on multiple dating sites ?

She might be married with kids and the photo quite ancient...




Update:

Likely she can be yours, Brass - for the right price !...

http://prostitutkimsk.site/prostitutki/prostitutka-universitet-Sonechka-89031681477-44# (http://prostitutkimsk.site/prostitutki/prostitutka-universitet-Sonechka-89031681477-44#)

As I originally and (now shown to be) accurately posted - A wasted life.

Brass

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: IamMaiC on February 06, 2017, 03:00:58 PM
not sure if you know about this woman...or if someone brought her to your attention.

she is on one a few dating websites.    I stumbled onto this...

http://www.ukrmodel.net/valentina.html

she is also at vk. com.

http://vk.com/belyangelsnov

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Gator on February 06, 2017, 03:37:25 PM
not sure if you know about this woman...or if someone brought her to your attention.

she is on one a few dating websites.    I stumbled onto this...

http://www.ukrmodel.net/valentina.html

she is also at vk. com.

http://vk.com/belyangelsnov





Is this the same woman as Double Dealers' Anzhelika Zadorozhnaya?  Your woman is a high level escort, charging $750 a day, not $75 for a quickie. 

Sandro can apply his photo match software and answer. 

The point that Sandro, and others, have been making over the years is that a few FSUW looking to marry a foreign man have also been working as a prostitute.   Every woman wants love.


Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Gator on February 06, 2017, 03:38:44 PM
Given Brass's and Moby's interest in this woman, I felt to compelled to learn more about her. 


Reading this young ladies 'profile', she is prepared to pass on all her experience and potentially a lot more besides.. 


It seems Anzhelika Zadorozhnaya indeed wants to please as she will give oral pleasure without a condom, deep throat,  and allow her "man" to "finish" in her mouth.   She says she does the "extreme,"  a fact that makes one wonder as she already lists fisting, golden showers, fisting, etc.  She is accommodating as she will give "services" in a car, where there is not enough light to check for diseases.   Certainly introduces the potential to pass on a lot more than her experience, as Moby wrote. 


Quote

Quote
  She's an attractive young woman and would have no problem landing pretty well any man she was interested in.

...Wasted life.

Now it COULD well be that the 'poor lass' might have never intended these photos to be seen publicly....

I believe the point Brass is making is she does not look like a prostitute.  She has a "girl next door lool,"  is not dressed like a prostitute with heavy makeup, etc.   Not to be catty but over the years a few RWD girlfriends are shown in photos to wear more makeup, sleazier clothing, etc.   



Quote
....and you might meet  hairy Boris willing to lighten your wallet

Could be.  But someone has to show up in response to the prostitution ads, and I doubt a client will pay Boris 9000 p for a blowjob. 
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Gator on February 06, 2017, 03:55:40 PM
We have an interesting story. 

Sandro posted her comments she wrote on her dating site:

Quote
I'm from Belarus, was born there, they learned to walk, and there howled most of his life. Graduated from the Institute, but I can not say that a lot of it has brought me much. After college I became a shareholder of a major Belarusian enterprises, and some foreign)) All this is thanks to my father who loves his daughter and does not want to be in it than needed))) I will not say how much money I have, and how much I earn in a year, [ed. nor how I earned my money] but I can say that I do not need financial support, and did not come to the site, like many others, to find a wealthy man and marry him..... I just blatantly lied in order to become closer to the father's money and connections...[ed. or lied for another reason] .....Now I'm in Italy [[ed. Spoleto is that near you Sandro?] and will stay for some time. I do not speak English, and this is written message...Let it remain my secret )) [Among my many dark secrets]





Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on February 06, 2017, 04:39:30 PM
Is this the same woman as Double Dealers' Anzhelika Zadorozhnaya?
No, she does not appear to be the same girl.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on February 06, 2017, 04:53:24 PM
not sure if you know about this woman...or if someone brought her to your attention. she is on one a few dating websites. I stumbled onto this...http://www.ukrmodel.net/valentina.html

she is also at vk. com. http://vk.com/belyangelsnov
Thanks for the pointer IamMaiC, she'll be a new entry in my long list ;).

She appears to be active in several places:

As Karolina in Bangkok:
- http://bangkokrussianescorts.com/ukrainian-escort-karolina/
- http://www.gentlemensclub-bangkok.com/russian-girls/ukrainian-escort-karolina/

As Vita in Dubai, Singapore:
- http://www.dubaidesire14.me/escorts/156410
- http://www.escortwiz.com/asia-pacific-and-middle-east/singapore/singapore/female-escorts/im-both-hot-and-elegant-25


She used to be listed on Russian Brides, but now "This profile is currently not available to display. Please check back later.". I'd be grateful if you could supply other dating sites.

P.S.: since for some unknown reason I cannot access VK, could please tell me which of her UKR Model photos also appear on VK?
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: ML on February 06, 2017, 07:27:58 PM

P.S.: since for some unknown reason I cannot access VK,

Because you have been pegged as a bad boy.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: IamMaiC on February 06, 2017, 09:20:07 PM


P.S.: since for some unknown reason I cannot access VK, could please tell me which of her UKR Model photos also appear on VK?

not sure,  the profile was what I found.   it shows a man with her.   one photo,  says "happy for the five years together..."   crazy. 

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: LAman on February 06, 2017, 09:26:30 PM
Thanks for the pointer IamMaiC, she'll be a new entry in my long list ;).

 

 


She used to be listed on Russian Brides, but now "This profile is currently not available to display. Please check back later.". I'd be grateful if you could supply other dating sites.

P.S.: since for some unknown reason I cannot access VK, could please tell me which of her UKR Model photos also appear on VK?

Sandro, I voluntarily did look in VK.....through first 150 photos( there are 251), none are on UKR Model. I do see her with similar black jacket and mink in VK photos....but not same pic as in UKR.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: msmob on February 07, 2017, 01:05:41 AM
Now it COULD well be that the 'poor lass' might have never intended these photos to be seen publicly....

I believe the point Brass is making is she does not look like a prostitute.  She has a "girl next door lool,"  is not dressed like a prostitute with heavy makeup, etc.   

I meant the photos MIGHT be being used maliciously
 
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on February 07, 2017, 06:50:10 AM
Well, since the case is doubtful - although she looks the same girl in IamMaiC's photo - I cannot in good conscience list her.

It remains odd that an escort ranging as far as Bangkok, Singapore and Dubai should choose her photos to advertise herself. Maybe the VK girl is a fashion model :-\? 

Thanks IamMaiC & LAman for your cooperation.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on February 07, 2017, 07:07:32 AM
I believe the point Brass is making is she does not look like a prostitute.  She has a "girl next door"  is not dressed like a prostitute with heavy makeup, etc.
Phil, not all DDs use photos in which they look their role initially, the last ones I listed (e.g. Voloschuk, Volkova, Shtanga, Barda, Starchak, etc.) a case in point, for various reasons like appealing to different tastes/clients.

After some years they may resort to show bare skin, though - e.g. Sotnik.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on February 09, 2017, 08:41:24 AM
I had to strike Tanya Voloschuk from my list: I discovered that she is a model whose photos were filched.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: silversurfer on March 04, 2017, 07:03:05 PM
http://loveme.com/mp/info134.htm
This woman is fake or otherwise a BS Artist. She's been on D-M and others.
I recognize her, I have a pretty good memory for faces.
My background involves photography and models amongst other things.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on March 05, 2017, 07:56:07 AM
Silversurfer, to qualify as DD she should also be on hookers' websites 8). I am not keeping track of simple scammers, that would be far too onerous and there are plenty of other sites for that.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on March 28, 2017, 03:33:35 PM
76th DD

Elena-Alyona 25 y.o. from Haivoron  / Emma 24 y.o. from St. Petersburg:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/19781270.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ALYONA-EMMA
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: msmob on March 28, 2017, 07:50:43 PM
I have a pretty good memory for faces.
My background involves photography and models amongst other things.

Really ? :)

I ask as the url you use takes us to a brunette with brown eyes and your photo is clearly a different lass ! ...
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: AndreyStein on April 03, 2017, 10:32:44 AM
Of course, as we know, the world is not without scammers..But, in order to grapple with these actions and people, in general, we should dwell on special tips or just be very careful with suspicious profiles.  :rules:
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: BillyB on April 08, 2017, 11:52:55 AM
just be very careful with suspicious profiles.


What is a suspicious profile? One where a girl says she's looking for a family man fully clothed or one where a girl posts photos half naked? Some scammers do a good job convincing guys they're old fashion wholesome good girls who need a knight to rescue them.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on August 30, 2017, 06:21:36 PM
3 NEW DDs

Milana 20 y.o. from Tolyatti/Moscow:
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/6feb04c6.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#MILANA

Irina  30 y.o. from Lvov/Yana 23 y.o. from St. Petersburg:
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/81128c92decf9078_875x780.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#YANA-IRINA

Elena/Alena 21 from St. Petersburg:
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/18f6e409f0c5c452_500x500.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ELENA-ALENA
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: minsky on November 06, 2017, 07:28:37 AM
Does anybody know if proved scamming is enough to be banned from Shengen?  Any example?
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on November 06, 2017, 07:29:53 AM
78th DD

Anhelina Shevko/Koni-Lisa-Sabrina from Minsk:
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/AnhelinaShevko3.jpg)  (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/img_fid11127_szB.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#KONI
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on November 06, 2017, 07:32:51 AM
Does anybody know if proved scamming is enough to be banned from Shengen?
I doubt it, it's not a criminal offense.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: ML on November 06, 2017, 10:37:48 AM
Does anybody know if proved scamming is enough to be banned from Shengen?  Any example?

Very hard to prove scamming.
It is often very close to differing expectations between two persons.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: minsky on November 06, 2017, 06:20:34 PM
Of course I mean when scamming is proved... when it is clear a bad faith and typical behaviours. Anybody heard about Schengen ban because of that?
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on November 06, 2017, 07:14:21 PM
Of course I mean when scamming is proved... when it is clear a bad faith and typical behaviours.
INM, that would require being prosecuted and indicted for fraud, not very easy to prove.  In these times, that accusation could even be dismissed and the accuser accused in turn of harassment, sexual assault and what not 8) ;D.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: minsky on November 07, 2017, 05:44:23 AM
INM, that would require being prosecuted and indicted for fraud, not very easy to prove.  In these times, that accusation could even be dismissed and the accuser accused in turn of harassment, sexual assault and what not 8) ;D.
harrasment and sexual assault to a prostitute double dealer I doubt...
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on November 07, 2017, 07:32:13 AM
harrasment and sexual assault to a prostitute double dealer I doubt...
Even prostitutes can be harassed and sexually assaulted if uncooperative - and even murdered. Their profession does not disqualify them from lodging a complaint with police forces, who are then obliged by law to pursue the matter.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: minsky on November 07, 2017, 11:44:54 PM
78th DD

Anhelina Shevko/Koni-Lisa-Sabrina from Minsk:
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/AnhelinaShevko3.jpg)  (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/img_fid11127_szB.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#KONI
You meant Lina, like AnheLINA...  so same name ...  wow, that's smart! Here you are sure who you find when she open the door.... really sure!! So she loves her hobby and she is proud of!!
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Mod7 on November 08, 2017, 08:31:26 AM
Minsky, stop using an avatar and signature that are not yours but another member's.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: minsky on November 08, 2017, 09:48:26 AM
@mod7  You mean that the profile settings available shouldn't be used? 
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Mod7 on November 08, 2017, 11:31:52 AM
@mod7  You mean that the profile settings available shouldn't be used?
Some are meant as a possible EXAMPLE, not something to be copied. And why do you insist on claiming you are from Norway, rather than Switzerland :-\?

Playing tricks with one's profile is NOT viewed favorably here :(.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on November 08, 2017, 11:40:37 AM
You may have noticed from the right-hand column that a new member appeared yesterday, i.e.  Shevko.

Today I received a rather long email from her:
Quote
Good evening, Sandro 43.
Nice to met you. The guy who speaking about me in this forum,said to you a lot of lies.
I want to turn all situation back!
And explain everything! I have a lot of evidence!
Sorry, but maybe u speak in Russian, it's will be more comfortable for me?
I M VICTIM NOW. This guy stalker and blackmailing me and all my family. He block everywhere now.
I am not stolen anything from him. Before starting our relationship we had agreement that we meet with money, and he have to pay for me for sex, and he was agree with that.
After he starting love me... and I said that sorry, I don't love u,.. aaaaand after that disaster is starting... he get crazy!
He start make research, when he know that I was with another man... he said me that I whore, bitch and other!
I told him:"ok, I whore, what do u want from me! What" he didn't answer and continue stalker.
After some time he said me: "I prepare web-site with your photos and your information, if I will not answer for 2 days I will send this everywhere"
Of corse I was scary, of corse I answered, but! U want to say this not blackmailing?????? He said me that it is not.
After he start to be intouch with my family(cousin and mom), he send everything for them, and said them that he love me so much and can help me change my life, they trust him, and I said sorry and come to him! But when I come the disaster not finish, everything continue... every day he asked me where I was with whom and how I fucking with smb, EVERY DAY! I change all numbers, I change pages and didn't in touch with anybody, of corse, smb wrote me but I answered so short and not continue. Every day I scream sand we had scandal. I asked him a drop of trust, but he gave me a sea of shit.
After 1 month I had to go in Minsk, bcs I had to study! HE WANT THAT I STADY IN ZURICH! I just agree with that, sometimes I told that better I will stay in shitty Belarus, then with him in Zh! I have all screenshots! I can show everything!
I comeback in Minsk! And in first second, I am not even arrive to land he start his stupid jealous again! I crying a lot in that moment, and said him, it's was last thing! Now everything is finish for sure. Sandro, what happen now... I can say u...
h calling me every day around 100 times! It's starting from 12 September! Imagin , almost 2 month, every day 100 times!!!In my mobile phone and home phone! He send me a massages in post, viber! He send me and this massages come, I done know why!!!!!! He block everywhere! He wrote a lot to my mom ! She block him too
He wrote to my cousin, they spoke a lot! She block him too
He wrote to all my friends, they are block him too
I tired, I tired all the time speaking with him!
Yes, maybe I am a whore, who like sex and fucking a lot! But I am not scammer! In that situation I am victim.
BEFORE OUR RELATIONSHIP he knew everything!
And he apply me like that, he knew that I am whore and bla bla...
I hope u understand me!
My goal now just stop all this shit! This calls and gossip around me!
I don't want anything from him!
And I repeat, I have all evidence.
And if u speak in Russian pls answer in Russian!

Comments?


Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: ML on November 08, 2017, 12:13:33 PM
You may have noticed from the right-hand column that a new member appeared yesterday, i.e.  Shevko.

Today I received a rather long email from her:
Comments?

WOW Sandro . . . you are a middle man or arbitrater now!!
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: BC on November 08, 2017, 12:37:34 PM
If I understand correctly the guy is in Switzerland / Zurich?

If so, she should fully document the calls and other harassment and send an email to gewaltschutz@kapo.zh.ch

Best if the complaint is translated into German.

http://www.kapo.zh.ch/internet/sicherheitsdirektion/kapo/de/praevention/kriminalitaet/stalking.html

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on November 08, 2017, 12:43:34 PM
If I understand correctly the guy is in Switzerland / Zurich? If so, she should fully document the calls and other harassment and send an email to gewaltschutz@kapo.zh.ch
That is what I suggested in the reply I just emailed her ;).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on November 08, 2017, 12:45:56 PM
WOW Sandro . . . you are a middle man or arbitratOr now!!
Not really, I am just a bystander in this mess ;D.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: jone on November 08, 2017, 12:50:21 PM
Hey, Minsky,

What's your take on the letter that Sandro received from your beloved?  Seems to me that it was a business relationship and that she does not see you as someone other than an individual who pays her for sex. 
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: minsky on November 08, 2017, 01:00:00 PM
The documental attachments (names have been removed for privacy reasons) are selfexplaining and challenge the writing... There is also the request sent on her own (I wasn't cc) by Shevko to (try to) get the money back from the school which she didn't pay... This was happening when the communications were "forbidden" as for father "order"...  On the other end I'm still getting annoyed/provoked/insulted today by her mother (in Viber) which in my view is the director of such situations (the actual and the past ones).
Stalking??? LOL... This lady tried to create a nice ambigous situation... plus scamming.  Guys all documents have been delivered already to the Migrationsampt by myself so I cannot supply here more details.
 
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: jone on November 08, 2017, 01:13:57 PM
Why would you ever want to be involved with a woman that is taking you for a ride? 

A couple of notes:  These exchanges are from September.  In a relationship, that is ancient history.

I don't think you understand how Eastern European Women think or see themselves.

You will know if an Eastern European woman is into you.  If you are her man, then she will move heaven and earth to make the relationship work. 

But if she sees you as someone providing income - and doesn't love you - then you will get the type of responses we've been reading about.

My suggestion is that you let her go and walk away.  In Eastern Europe (or the rest of the world, for that matter) every 30 seconds you can find a new woman.  Don't associate with someone who works on her back.   The energy you spend here misdirects you from time you could be spending in a quality relationship. 

She is not the first, or the last.  Don't be the spurned lover.  Pick yourself up, and move on.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: minsky on November 08, 2017, 01:22:05 PM
The document to Migrationsamt had to be sent because she started the procedure for long term Visa the day before leaving and then aborted cause "the father"...  Anyhow two weeks ago the situation was not yet clear like now thanks to Sandro and I went to Minsk being invited (as Stalker???) and spent the weekend with her... (cannot be more explicit here... but it is obvious how..).

I would recommend now the moderator to remove all the posts starting from the Sandro's letter... It is not serious that we make here discussions on topics where only authorities can have the insight and myself won't tell more than this.  For our purpose I think it is clear enough.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: minsky on November 08, 2017, 01:27:01 PM
Why would you ever want to be involved with a woman that is taking you for a ride? 



She is not the first, or the last.  Don't be the spurned lover.  Pick yourself up, and move on.

Jone yesterday I wrote her the enclosed... She was trying to justify that the websites found by Sandro were fakes...  LOL!!!
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: onlyFSU4me on November 08, 2017, 01:32:08 PM


I would recommend now the moderator to remove all the posts starting from the Sandro's letter... It is not serious that we make here discussions on topics where only authorities can have the insight and myself won't tell more than this.  For our purpose I think it is clear enough.


 Why remove them? I would guess that it would help the authorities in their investigation to see what both you and she said here
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: jone on November 08, 2017, 01:49:33 PM
Jone yesterday I wrote her the enclosed... She was trying to justify that the websites found by Sandro were fakes...  LOL!!!

I would not be surprised if some are fakes.  Hookers are notorious for taking pictures of other attractive women and using them for their own.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: minsky on November 08, 2017, 02:00:05 PM

 Why remove them? I would guess that it would help the authorities in their investigation to see what both you and she said here

This is already accomplished. Everybody (myself also) has the screenshots. I was meaning that we cannot make a surgery operation in the street or a trial at the supermarket... This is not professional. For this reason I was suggesting the removal. Authorities are already been documented. The letter Sandro published had the clear scope to convince Sandro to remove her from the DD database in a manipulation wise (her typical I would say...). Sandro doesn't mention if he was authorized for the publication here. So when she wrote it she didn't know that it would have been put here otherwise she would have posted herself (she has an account!). Now, even though this girl disappointed me so much I cannot approve how WE are behaving now. I think it is not fair. I hope you understand. Does this make sense to you?
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: minsky on November 08, 2017, 02:05:30 PM
I would not be surprised if some are fakes.  Hookers are notorious for taking pictures of other attractive women and using them for their own.
Yes but not in this case...  I know WHERE she was on the 5th May when that website was created... (and two days later she was with me...) and few days AFTER she changed his Instagram name to have in it the same name of the Hooker...  and the pics are not from Instagram. Sandro opened me an entire world of correlations with that information...
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: BC on November 08, 2017, 02:16:49 PM
Really, both parties should simply stop communicating and move on with their lives. 

Once one party says 'stop contacting me' that should be it.  Anything after that point is harassment/stalking.

I fail to see a scam.  Regarding the tuition fee, it's pretty reasonable that such would be paid in her name to the school and could only be requested back by her. No foul.

That she is/was/is again a prostitute or not is quite irrelevant.  Attempts to use such information against her, threats to publish such on websites etc could well work against the accuser.  I would certainly interpret such as stalking and harassment.

The flyer
http://www.kapo.zh.ch/internet/sicherheitsdirektion/kapo/
de/praevention/kriminalitaet/stalking/_jcr_content/
contentPar/downloadlist/downloaditems/
30_1357799536820.spooler.download.1448534209805.pdf/stalking_flyer.pdf (http://www.kapo.zh.ch/internet/sicherheitsdirektion/kapo/
de/praevention/kriminalitaet/stalking/_jcr_content/contentPar/
downloadlist/downloaditems/
30_1357799536820.spooler.download.1448534209805.pdf/stalking_flyer.pdf) 
is quite informative.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: jone on November 08, 2017, 02:21:46 PM
Your best bet is to move on, and forget this has ever happened.  I promise you that she will.  As for removing the exchange of data, while I am not the forum owner or a moderator, I can say that this exchange is EXACTLY what we are here for.  Not you, specifically, but the exchanges between WM and FSUW. 

Years ago, I had proof that a gal was a scammer.  I went on and on about it and Brass finally opened my eyes to the fact that I was wasting too much time on her and that I was just as culpable by giving her gifts and support (while I was in Ukraine).

I now say to you that you have to pick up your shoes and move on to what I hope is your great love.  And quickly this gal will be forgotten.  By reading what she says, I can already tell you that she is never someone you would want to wind up with.

Udachi.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: minsky on November 08, 2017, 02:32:24 PM
Really, both parties should simply stop communicating and move on with their lives. 

Once one party says 'stop contacting me' that should be it.  Anything after that point is harassment/stalking.

I fail to see a scam.  Regarding the tuition fee, it's pretty reasonable that such would be paid in her name to the school and could only be requested back by her. No foul.

That she is/was/is again a prostitute or not is quite irrelevant.  Attempts to use such information against her, threats to publish such on websites etc could well work against the accuser.  I would certainly interpret such as stalking and harassment.

BC, do not assume that it would be true the accuse that such websites exist. All those internet stuff (mentioned in the DD file btw) are existing way before our knowledge. As for the tuition fee she never told to the school to wire back to who paid and in the meanwhile she was NOT communicating with me. The school on its own contacted me under suspicion.. and after we fixed the story. To be noted that she also told a lie to the school stating that she had problem with the Visa (this is rule to have the money back) while she didn't show up at the Moscow embassy where she had an appointment.  Then the school asked for an official document of the Federation which was refusing the Visa...   BC, can we please stop this pointless discussion here based on zero documentation?  REALLY.... Thanks.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: BC on November 08, 2017, 02:46:20 PM
Minsky,

I'm just pointing out a rocky road ahead for you continuing the path you seem to be following.

What is it that you really want?

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: minsky on November 08, 2017, 03:05:57 PM
Minsky,

I'm just pointing out a rocky road ahead for you continuing the path you seem to be following.

What is it that you really want?

Me??? First I want that people speaks knowing the data. You don't. I'm doing nothing, ZERO! But you give advices without even reading the few documents I attached before ... so what YOU want? Which path I would be following??? Informing the authorities about what happened is a crime or it is a duty?? I signed as RESPONSIBLE with the authorities of this girls while she was in Switzerland (and she asked me to do!!!). I had to close the loop as for duty in the most crystal clear way possible.  Good night BC!!
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: BillyB on November 08, 2017, 09:56:02 PM
You may have noticed from the right-hand column that a new member appeared yesterday, i.e.  Shevko.

Today I received a rather long email from her:......................


Comments?


I have a comment for Shevko. If you open your legs for money, do not be surprised some of the worst men of society will enter and it will be hard to get rid of them.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: minsky on November 08, 2017, 11:34:14 PM
The letter posted by Sandro contains a couple of false extremely hateful statements which I need to challenge.

1.) That relationship was NOT based on sex vs money exchange.
2.) No blackmailing to bring her in outside her country. Her relatives spotted her misdoing and hurting the all family reputation.

Sex for money was her HIDDEN EXTERNAL activity covered with tons of lies during the year of our relationship (just read my attachment in the previous posts and it is clear..). Of course I knew  (from herself) about the fact that very occasionally she did it in the PAST. This is the  Double Dealer part of the story. Of course she got help and gifts as in a normal situation.

Scamming is certainty ALSO the fact that she asked help, got it, had a lot of fun, had the perfect holiday (her words) , having the life turned by 180 degree from the gangster environment she was part of and in the end accusing to having be forced (blackmailing!!). This is not just scamming but a criminal offense. (or something interesting for a psychiatric care)

She got the opportunity to get education in one of the best University of the world and leave her slums. She trashed this in total freedom and cheating all around. This opportunity was given thanks to the good impression I had about her relatives that she really could change direction.... But lies continued (and are continuing).

I think that could be fine if the same bitter experience will not happen to others with whom she will continue her "career".
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: msmob on November 09, 2017, 01:38:45 AM
Minsky,

As someone who used the internet to counter a slur - I did warn you in another thread to STOP - that this would be a trainwreck

The truth of the matter is .... no-one really cares who was right or wrong and you provide entertainment for the peanut gallery.

Now you want taken down, what you sought ?......  to 'alert other guys'.....  I mean that WAS your motive, right ? .........

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: minsky on November 09, 2017, 02:28:42 AM
MSMOB,

I fully agree with you... this discussion here is less than stupid.  I just recommended to take down a situation triggered by a 1:1 PM which publication I don't know if it was authorized (Sandro didn't write this). I understand that it made a lot of fun for the peanut gallery but some statements there are really crossing the legal line and completely false and damaged the author of that PM. But! This is not the place where to discuss this topic (from the PM).  I still hold this opinion. I think that  any of the other 77 DD in Sandro's could send similar fantasy.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: BC on November 09, 2017, 04:48:26 AM
Me??? First I want that people speaks knowing the data. You don't. I'm doing nothing, ZERO! But you give advices without even reading the few documents I attached before ... so what YOU want? Which path I would be following??? Informing the authorities about what happened is a crime or it is a duty?? I signed as RESPONSIBLE with the authorities of this girls while she was in Switzerland (and she asked me to do!!!). I had to close the loop as for duty in the most crystal clear way possible.  Good night BC!!

Of course, if you were her visa sponsor you should let the authorities know that you will no longer sponsor her and that the visa should not be issued.  You paid for her school and she did not attend.  She asked for a refund and guessing did not get it.  You knew her 'hobby', but thought she would give it up for you.  Obviously, you wanted more out of the relationship than she did.  Whether or not it's a crime?  I dunno, but does that even really matter to you now?  When men and women form a relationship there is some kind of trade involved.  It seems more like you wanted to be her white knight whereas she was looking for a more loose relationship.  She may have simply added up what you were offering and decided not to go forward in the end, more bucks doing what she was doing before to support herself and being more independent..  You did learn a lesson to avoid in the future.  The advice you were given was free, but you decided to pay for a proper lesson instead.  That's quite ok.  Most guys are so dazzled by long legs n nice titties they'll learn their lesson the hard way.  Par for the course and exactly why any attempts to prevent others from falling in the flytrap, or prevent her from finding other 'sponsors', is as futile as people here that tried to prevent you from falling in.  At least you had good sex a couple times (I hope).  Many of the guys following your path don't even get that ;)

Bottom line, you can bring a horse to water, but you can't make the horse drink.

Remember also that there is a language difficulty between you and others here on the board.  Misunderstandings are normal.  If you feel the need to chat, just send me your telephone number in a message and I'll call you.  I get along well with either German or Italian languages.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: minsky on November 09, 2017, 05:32:50 AM
BC,

now you are much closer to the real situation... just add a couple of tons of lies and bad faith and comedy and you are there.... Really a challenge to survive to them...  )))
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: minsky on November 10, 2017, 03:17:47 AM
We know now, thanks to Sandro ( http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#Shevko ),  that the pics in this page are from Anhelina  http://topescortbabes.com/escort/Sabrina_25615?18plus=true by chance posted and since long time in Vilnius... (2014)... BUT the age is basically up-to-date...  SABRINA (the hooker) seems to be ANHELINA.... The face is HIDDEN  (WHY????  :clapping:) and Vilnius is very close to Minsk...  ;) Train station is in front of the University...  On my side I know how often Angelina disappeared or missed one flight or had the phone off ... Was she the perfect Double Dealer or was it another hooker taking her pics?  ;D Quite a  (Scammer) experience!!

A wasted life (cit.)
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: ML on November 10, 2017, 08:13:08 AM
A wasted life (cit.)

And now you are going to waste your time and life on this ????
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: minsky on November 10, 2017, 08:21:01 AM
And now you are going to waste your time and life on this ????

...no, but regret a bit the already wasted time... can I?  :D
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: BillyB on November 10, 2017, 12:47:34 PM
...no, but regret a bit the already wasted time... can I?  :D


When those women are spreading their legs for other customers, they aren't missing you or shedding a tear. You knew you were getting involved with a woman who had a past, poor morals and values, and a questionable character. The wasted year and  risk you took with her was your own.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: minsky on November 10, 2017, 01:00:20 PM

When those women are spreading their legs for other customers, they aren't missing you or shedding a tear. You knew you were getting involved with a woman who had a past, poor morals and values, and a questionable character. The wasted year and  risk you took with her was your own.
Yeah Billy you are right... Cannot turn a Hoe into a housewife... But the bet was because it was said a "finished and extremely short past (something like one month in all)", because she showed interest in study and because being young I did guess not yet lost...  But... Bet lost. Badly lost. And all those lies... Jesus... so painful!
As written 2000 years ago by Tacitus "Neque femina amissa pudicitia alia abnuerit"...
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: BillyB on November 10, 2017, 01:12:25 PM

I know a few guys at work that go to strip clubs. All the girls are just doing it for a short time and trying to make money for school. It's a better story to get men to open their wallets than if they tell them the truth such as trying to earn money to buy their daily dosage of drugs.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: minsky on November 10, 2017, 02:08:46 PM
.... any attempts to prevent others from falling in the flytrap, or prevent her from finding other 'sponsors', is as futile as people here that tried to prevent you from falling in.  At least you had good sex a couple times (I hope).  Many of the guys following your path don't even get that ;)


I'm sure she'll succeed 100% in fooling others. She is sooo trained in telling lies that can sell everything... even getting simphaty by someone for what happened this year believing she was the victim of an ogre...

... couple? yes... of hundreds..  ;D
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Sting23 on November 10, 2017, 02:41:51 PM
minsky with all the venom you are spewing at this girl sounds like you were taken for quite the ride.  what's done is done, let it go.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Sting23 on November 10, 2017, 02:52:42 PM
What's the story, you met this girl on a plane randomly? Sounds far fetched to me.
If you are 65 as on your profile can you honestly expect a girl in her 20's to be interested in you with no hidden agenda?

Sounds like you guys used each other for sex and money and then you got upset that she has a checkered past. 
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: minsky on November 10, 2017, 03:05:31 PM
What's the story, you met this girl on a plane randomly? Sounds far fetched to me.
If you are 65 as on your profile can you honestly expect a girl in her 20's to be interested in you with no hidden agenda?

Sounds like you guys used each other for sex and money and then you got upset that she has a checkered past.

...not 65..   ;)   

Yes.... very hidden agenda vs a clean and transparent new life. Just read about the school story...
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: jone on November 10, 2017, 03:09:35 PM
...not 65..   ;)   

Yes.... very hidden agenda vs a clean and transparent new life.

How much of this do you want us to believe if you admit that you are lying on your profile, that you lied about the country you are from, etc.  Frankly, you tell everyone that this gal is a liar and then you lie yourself.  I do understand trying to hide your identity on the internet.  But if you don't wish to tell your age, you are not compelled to include it.    To me, it seems like intentional deception.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: minsky on November 10, 2017, 03:16:40 PM
Naaa just unchecked data sorry for that. I'm newbie here.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Sting23 on November 10, 2017, 03:19:06 PM
The way he writes makes him sound like 16 and breaking up with his first girlfriend.   Even if he lost alot of money this wasn't a "scam".  Good thing she didn't get pregnant and left you on the hook for child support! now THAT would be a scam. 

Shows that if guys only think about that ONE thing, you can lose common sense in everything else.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: minsky on November 10, 2017, 03:35:49 PM
Your opinion...

In case of pregnancy a DNA test would have been mandatory.. thought  :D
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Sting23 on November 10, 2017, 03:52:34 PM
No kidding eh. Sounds like you lose an amount of money that was significant to you.  I suggest to do a trip to Moscow and have some fun and find a new girl.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: kynrazor on November 10, 2017, 09:52:44 PM
not sure if you know about this woman...or if someone brought her to your attention.

she is on one a few dating websites.    I stumbled onto this...

http://www.ukrmodel.net/valentina.html

http://vk.com/belyangelsnov

Well what do you know? Wedding pictures on vk. She just got married at 26!  :-\ Funny how love works  :popcorn:
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on March 29, 2018, 04:39:46 PM
78th DD

Anastasia Sklyarenko/Elena-Katya-Natasha-Rita-Sofiya:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/b0e4ede24b3ca5c2_200x320.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ANASTASIA-SOFIYA
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: msmob on March 30, 2018, 07:28:28 AM
Well what do you know? Wedding pictures on vk. She just got married at 26!  :-\ Funny how love works  :popcorn:

..and the UK domain expired ;)
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 24, 2018, 06:14:54 PM
3 NEW DDs

A "Galaxy" of SPB sites revealed 3 hitherto unknown SPB DDs:

Mila Gimranova from Moscow/Ilona-Toma(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/df6f53a83ff570b0_200x320.jpg)Link: http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#Gimranova
Elena Fadeeva/Kira(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/14717_gi.jpg)Link: http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#FADEEVA
Ekaterina Timonova from Chelyabinsk/Yulya(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/7aaa54aae5bdd46b_200x320.jpg)Link: http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#TIMONOVA
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 08, 2018, 05:41:22 PM
82nd DD

Karina Safina/Anastasya-Elya-Mariya-Nastya-Yana from Moscow, Rostov, Krasnodar, Anapa, Nizhny Novgorod

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/avatar00.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#Safina
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 14, 2018, 07:36:13 PM
83rd DD

Anna Sobolevskaya/Solovey from Kharkov, another "model" turned "professional" as Olya 23 from St. Petersburg:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/42ac788e.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#Sobolevskaya
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 17, 2018, 11:56:46 AM
84th DD

ALYONA-ELENA/EMMA-MILA-VIKA from St. Petersburg, Moscow:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/19781270b441248a_500x500.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#Emma
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: ML on May 17, 2018, 12:33:52 PM
84th DD

ALYONA-ELENA/EMMA-MILA-VIKA from St. Petersburg, Moscow:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/19781270b441248a_500x500.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#Emma

Her ad says she provides oral sex and gives blowjobs.
Help me out here ? !
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: jone on May 17, 2018, 01:24:10 PM
84th DD

ALYONA-ELENA/EMMA-MILA-VIKA from St. Petersburg, Moscow:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/19781270b441248a_500x500.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#Emma

I actually know this gal in real life.  She lives in Kharkiv and has has a two year old daughter.  Her real name is Alyona.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 17, 2018, 05:00:06 PM
I actually know this gal in real life. She lives in Kharkiv and has has a two year old daughter.  Her real name is Alyona.
This is a real first, a member actually knowing a DD! Alyona is the name she gave to Russian Brides, but her profile was removed ::). Can you provide further details?
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: BdHvA on May 17, 2018, 05:10:18 PM
Long ago in chat some one posted images of a young lady. Only problem I made the images and was and remain in contact with her. Sometimes you can boost a FaceBook image.

For sure it was de Chirico surreal when I noted the woman was married there was a rather limp piece of pasta as an poster.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: jone on May 17, 2018, 05:27:04 PM
This is a real first, a member actually knowing a DD! Alyona is the name she gave to Russian Brides, but her profile was removed ::). Can you provide further details?

Yeah.  I met her in Kharkiv.  She was working the angle on A-Date.  While we didn't hit it off, I did go out to lunch with her a couple of times.  That's about a five year old picture.  She was living with a guy when I met her.  Then she had her baby and threw the guy out. 

Funny thing.  Her father was tremendously fat.  And she has the propensity as well.  While she has a full figure, she was pretty heavy the last time I saw her which was probably 2014.  I haven't kept up with her but she was a heavy hitter on the scam circuit in her day.  I'll see if I can dig up some old pics.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: JayH on May 17, 2018, 05:56:07 PM
Yeah.  I met her in Kharkiv.  She was working the angle on A-Date.  While we didn't hit it off, I did go out to lunch with her a couple of times.  That's about a five year old picture.  She was living with a guy when I met her.  Then she had her baby and threw the guy out. 

Funny thing.  Her father was tremendously fat.  And she has the propensity as well.  While she has a full figure, she was pretty heavy the last time I saw her which was probably 2014.  I haven't kept up with her but she was a heavy hitter on the scam circuit in her day.  I'll see if I can dig up some old pics.

Back in the days  when chat was mostly a happy place there was quite a lot of useful information exchanged .Many guys did a lot of learning there and were helped -sometimes with very specific info.

One guy came to chat was concerned that had dropped a lot ( a LOT) of $ on a girl. I instantly recognised her  when he eventually confided in her photo -he was very shocked with what I was able to tell him.
FWIW -- she is still working the systems and is now younger than she used to be !!!!!!!

 ! Av mentions above about a photo he once took reappearing -- I have also seen photos I actually took appearing in profiles not connected to the actual girl I photographed !
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 31, 2018, 12:17:05 PM
A BATCH OF 4 NEW DDs

A new "Galaxy" of 100+ SPB sites yielded some fresh DDs, as well as updates to already known ones.

NAMESPHOTOLINK
Yana Panfilova / Milana(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/3763c07b.jpg)http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#Panfilova
Katya Materazzo, Olga Lyubimov / Nika(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/8e0964bb03daf93d_500x500.jpg)http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#Materazzo
Kristina Rudakova / Lana(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/e8e27467feb5ab9d_500x500.jpg)http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#Rudakova
Tatyana / Irina, Margarita(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/2d0192feda11c33a109980f539586f66.jpg)http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#TATYANA-MARGARITA
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on June 06, 2018, 05:21:17 PM
DD #89

A new "Galaxy" of 180+ MSK sites yielded 33 y.o. Slava, a "model" with an extra source of income ;):

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/12714.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#Slava-Slava
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on June 16, 2018, 05:20:21 PM
DD #90

- Darya Belova/Lena Firsova/Yulia Ipatova/Renata Kerri/Zarina Kovalenko/Anastasya Lebedeva/Kristina Milano/Lena Tulinova/Ilarya Voronzova from Moscow, St. Petersburg, Kazan, Biysk

- Alena/Tanya/Zhanna from Khabarovsk, Moscow

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/2402.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#Tanya-Zhanna

It is curious that she posts her more 'revealing' photos on social rather than professional sites. A novel way of recruiting clients ::)?
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on July 14, 2018, 07:39:42 AM
DD #91 & 92

A new, huge "Galaxy" of 280+ MSK sites yielded a couple of "models" with alternative income sources ;):

Diana Miroshnikova/Aleksandra:
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/2433.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#Miroshnikova

Nastya/Zhenya:
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/538.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#Nastya-Zhenya

Also updates to known DDs like #89 below, and to my old friend "Boots" who has reached a total of 392 profiles on 191 sites - while still posting the same photos she has been using for 9 years :D.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on August 12, 2018, 07:03:02 PM
DD #93

Sweet Kiss Bri from Geneva/Kira from St. Petersburg:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/14413508.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#sweetkissiBri
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on August 27, 2018, 06:49:33 PM
DD #94, 95, 96

A new "Galaxy" of 19 MSK/SPB/Rus sites yielded 3 new DDS:

Svetlana Gromova from Smolensk/Diana from Moscow:
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/re15092071030803.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#SvetlanaGromova

Karina Filatova-Milana Talimova-Natalia Alexandrova from Almaty/Liana from Moscow:
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/th15071C.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#KarinaFilatova

Larisa Krylova from Saint Petersburg/Katyusha from Moscow:
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/th15070A.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#Larisa Krylova

Also updates to 2 known DDs.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: minsky on September 27, 2018, 07:06:16 AM
This is a real first, a member actually knowing a DD! Alyona is the name she gave to Russian Brides, but her profile was removed ::). Can you provide further details?

I claim I've been the first... ))
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on September 27, 2018, 05:53:44 PM
I claim I've been the first... ))
You're right, recognition to whom deserves it ;D.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: minsky on September 28, 2018, 08:45:57 AM
By the way i got couple of months ago an interesting update. As you remember I had to withdraw my sponsorship with swiss immigration office... Result has been that Angelina was filed in Schengen Security database and they blocked her at some border checking the passport... her visa crossed and she went deported... 🤣 Now Schengen and not only is off limits for her... and after the police raid at her club guess also Belarus not so comfortable place...

Minsky
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on November 15, 2018, 11:33:30 AM
DD #98

Dina Gordei 26 from Pinsk/Yana 22 from Moscow

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/4cbxuf2p.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#DinaGordei
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: msmob on November 17, 2018, 12:18:42 AM
'She' is quite an industry

You can follow her for 15 USD / month from 'her' instagram site ..

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on November 17, 2018, 08:16:20 AM
'She' is quite an industry You can follow her for 15 USD / month from 'her' instagram site ..
Thanks for the pointer.

She's also on Facebook:  http://www.facebook.com/dina.gordey.1?lst=1025854422%3A100019781948111%3A1542465248
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 09, 2019, 11:11:17 PM
DDs #98, 99, 100, 101

A new site (MSK Hot) yielded 4 new DDs:

Anna Ivanova/Asya:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/mcqvAjaTrwQ.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#AnnaIvanova[/center]

Alina Polischuk/Elena:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/EROeiTi8RRg.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#AlinaPolischuk[/center]

Alina Volkova, Mariya Demidova/Alina, Anita, Elena:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/resize_1486422878383.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#MariyaDemidova[/center]

Anna Ivanova, Yuliya Fomina, Yuliya Kochergan, Polina Novikova, Ksenya Belova, Kristina Savchenko/Dasha:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/resize_1486425981392.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#KristiLemanova
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: rwd123 on April 10, 2019, 08:11:17 PM
Sandro - I think the reason we haven't heard from James (jamesukjames) for a while is because he's been using this thread as a dating rolodex. :D

How do you validate that pictures are simply not stolen? Do you contact them? I would imagine that for countries where prostitution is illegal that working girls wouldn't use photos of themselves.

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 11, 2019, 08:54:00 AM
How do you validate that pictures are simply not stolen?
I do not - one cannot be 100% certain of anything on the Internet - rather I rely on probabilities.

- Stolen photos usually belong to known porn/photo models, mostly US or Czech, used by what I called DDDs (Triple Dealers: http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/triplogioco.htm?English)
- Why should photos of more plain-looking girls, like the last 4, be stolen?
- Multiple identities on social sites usually hide something not publically admissible, like a part-time money-making activity.
- Nude photos not usually shown on social sites, but recognisable as of the same girl, are significant.

In all these years I received only 1 complaint from Inga Albers (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#IngaAlbers) in 2005, who wrote her sister was married to an Italian lawyer and threatened legal action. I did nothing, and nothing came of it.

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/2884622066677.jpg)
Quote
Do you contact them?
No, but you could since I list their phone numbers ;D.
Quote
I would imagine that for countries where prostitution is illegal working girls wouldn't use photos of themselves.
Some MSK-based sites list 100,000+ profiles. Authorities either turn a blind eye to rampant illegality, or have a finger in such a lucrative pie ;).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 11, 2019, 02:29:25 PM
I have a Danish friend living in the UK who spent a LOT of time meeting agency girls in Ukraine ..over a hundred girls in his search for a wife.

He has a high sex-drive so also used prostitutes in Ukraine whilst there and he tells me NONE of the prostitutes he used were the same girls as in the photo's he saw of them before booking them.


He's well aware of the internet porn sites and wouldn't have been suckered in by seeing photo's of porn models being used.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 11, 2019, 07:49:28 PM
Quote
he tells me NONE of the prostitutes he used were the same girls as in the photo's he saw of them before booking them.
For concealment from the locals who may know them, probably - many "borrow" the photos of their Moscow sisters ;).

Did your friend not complain about their "disguise"?
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Chelseaboy on April 12, 2019, 02:56:25 AM
Yes he complained but their pimps just say if you don't want her send her back and go without.

Their pimps are well aware a fair few of the men booking these girls will just suck it up and pay...they're just setting the bait.


A lot of the agency girls at the PPL sites are good-looking girls..so they'd be a fertile hunting ground for pimps looking for photos to lure men looking for prostitutes in.


That isn't to say that there aren't some Ukrainian agency girls who do some hooking too,some of the photos on your site clearly suggest that and a couple of the girls can also be found on scam sites where guys are saying the girls offered sex for money.


He did say some of the Ukraine "marriage agencies" also double as pimps with girls available for prostitution from them....wouldn't be difficult for them to use the photo shoots they've organized for the "husband seekers" to lure paying punters with switch and bait tactics.


If you look at the Euro Girls Escort.com site it's noticeable how few of the many Ukrainian beauties offering their charms for hard cash have actually been reviewed by their customers ..just 12 out of 536.


That suggests other girls have been sent back as they don't match their photo's.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: msmob on April 12, 2019, 04:42:06 AM

If you look at the Euro Girls Escort.com site it's noticeable how few of the many Ukrainian beauties offering their charms for hard cash have actually been reviewed by their customers ..just 12 out of 536.


That suggests other girls have been sent back as they don't match their photo's.

It could also suggest

 Clients do not want to rate - lest she is busy when they need her ? :popcorn:



Not even bothering TO look (!)



Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 18, 2019, 07:41:06 PM
DD #102

Elizaveta from Kiev/Alisa-Anastasiya-Polina from Moscow

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/p183220-1.jpg)

http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#Elizaveta
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 23, 2019, 06:50:38 AM
DDs #103, 104, 105, 106

4 new DDs:

Assol:
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/resize_1528567578929.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#Assol

Anzhelika Gusak, Olya Kruz/Kira:
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/resize_1436614226786.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#AnzhelikaGusak

Darina Prihodko/Valeriya:
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/7q5LqgFmNAk.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#DarinaPrihodko

Rita Ivanova, Polina Chistiakova/Katya:
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/resize_1491499463817.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#RitaIvanova
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: ML on May 23, 2019, 10:43:50 AM
DDs #103, 104, 105, 106

4 new DDs:

Assol:

Sort of an unfortunate name.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 23, 2019, 04:21:33 PM
Sort of an unfortunate name.
Yes ;D. The German Wiki explains:
Quote
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assol_(Vorname)Der Name ist ein Kunstwort aus dem Roman Purpursegel von Alexander Grin, worin er die Hauptfigur, ein Mdchen vom Meeresstrand, bezeichnet. In der Regel enden originr russische weibliche Vornamen auf -а, hier wird jedoch die Weiblichkeit durch das Weichheitszeichen (-ь) am Ende ausgedrckt.[1] Durch den Anklang von соль (Salz) wollte der Autor offenbar einen Bezug zum Meer herstellen.[1] Da Grin als Seemann mit vielen Hfen und fremden Sprachen in Berhrung kam, ist auch ein Bezug zur Hafenstadt Limassol auf Zypern oder dem spanischen Adjektiv azul (blau) denkbar
.http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assol_(Vorname)

"The name is Art Nouveau from the novel Purpursegel (The Purple Sails) by Alexander Grin, with which he designates the main character, a girl from the seashore. As a rule, Russian female first names end with -a, but here femininity is expressed by the softness sign (-ь) at the end. By the appeal of соль (salt) the author apparently wanted to make a reference to the sea. As Grin came into contact with many ports and foreign languages ​​as a sailor, a reference to the port city of Limassol in Cyprus or the Spanish adjective azul (blue) is also conceivable."

The writer's pen name Alexander Grin (short for Aleksandr Stepanovich Grinevsky, 1880-1932) is also unintentionally funny.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/%D0%90%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D1%80_%D0%93%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD.jpg/800px-%D0%90%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D1%80_%D0%93%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD.jpg) (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/AlexanderGrin.jpg)
Title: 16 NEW DDs!
Post by: SANDRO43 on July 13, 2019, 11:02:22 AM
I tried a new approach for finding DDs, and it proved rather fruitful: 16 new DDs, an unprecedented single haul.

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/1d42b16c52b10f36327c488938727540643c4638.jpg)
1.Kira Draft/Alina = http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#KiraDraft

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/e485dd715b54d2e1e5c7127f9743aae89a142b32.jpg)   
2.Anastasia Bautdinova-Nastya Shevchenko/Dasha =    http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#AnastasiaBautdinova

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/9ce52bf1947e1a5b34430d4b6add0276180b8d81.jpg)
3.Galina Aldana/Zulya = http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#GalinaAldana

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/80aba378f6b9ab76178c3d3e71ae1be852a3c5b3_thumb.jpg)
4.Aleksandra-Alena Stepanova-Alyona Stepanova-Ekaterina/Darya =    http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ALYONASTEPANOVA
   
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/c3567a2198e3b8dc19256b5e14a6df9237d88634_thumb.jpeg)
5.Marina Sinotova/Marina = http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#MARINASINOTOVA

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/1a2b17270a631891730b48ebce4cd7a5b2661f91.png)
6.Alexa Brighty/Diana-Zheniya = http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ALEXABRIGHTY

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/4b38dc3b4699efcdf9824e5cd90bcf845a24ed96.jpg)
7.Anzhelika Kalashnikova-Oksana Dorofeeva/Lena-Marina = http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#AnzhelikaKalashnikova

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/08c9c6bc8c6c8f38fdf0c472aedbf4af4f4ef100_thumb.jpg)
8.Nonna/Nonna = http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#NONNANONNA

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/b17abcb0f45b75372c5ea057606633e4cbc669d9_thumb.jpg)
9.Alisa/Alisa = http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ALISAALISA

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/0fa3febf68a9be4708675c3eac7cca89ffb1a787_thumb.jpg)
10.Yana/Yana = http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#YANAYANA

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/dc480c29442b8f2e04cb8a80e37798d45c48ac15_thumb.jpg)
11.Milana/Milana = http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#MILANAMILANA

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/6e17d4a4153cb0e1f92b01e695b4ba1c559d5f69_thumb.jpg)
12. Anya/Anya = http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#AnyaAnya

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/4f59c3b6fbd65c99568e12d416b1292512257d50.jpg)
13.Masha Lee/Amina-Diana-Evgeniya-Irina-Karina-Kristina-Lidiya-Lolita-Mila-Nadezhda-Oksana-Regina-Ruslana-Sofiya-Sveta-Varvara-Yana-Yuliya-Zlata  (may be a Trans) = http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#MASHALEE

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/ae88fdb4b6cf8277638c7dec4071baccee22ec6f.jpg)
14.Viktoriya Ovchinnikova/Zulya = http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ViktoriyaOvchinnikova

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/ca569feb6fd8f2d06db94b15bca5f74ca54e31f8_thumb.jpg)
15.Alena Romanova/Marina = http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ALENAROMANOVA

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/441833ef4dc382c6e08ca942287f00b9bb23c863_thumb.jpg)
16.Karina/Arina-Karina = http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#KARINAKARINA
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Gator on July 13, 2019, 03:34:56 PM
Sandro,

A side benefit of your mission is producing a library of photos of what a newcomer should avoid if seeking a wife.  Sincere FSUW do not display such provocative photos of themselves in their Internet profile.   

If correspondence and conversations with a FSUW become friendly and serious, some may send something so you don't lose interest, yet not anything resembling a few of these 16.

BTW, what was your different approach?
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on July 13, 2019, 05:12:44 PM
Sincere FSUW do not display such provocative photos of themselves in their Internet profile.  BTW, what was your different approach?

Phil, you almost got it :D. I submit to Google Images/TinEye searches those photos of professional girls in demure clothing, showing little skin - which they often use in their profiles on social sites.

It's astonishing that they do not realise that any photo on the Internet may be a link to "social" sites of a different nature and content, if they also put them there 8).

Therefore,  a word of advice to members searching for FSUW mates: if you are captivated by a nice photo, DO give it to Google Images/TinEye/Yandex Image Search to chew on - you may be surprised by the result, one way or the other ;).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: msmob on July 16, 2019, 03:39:15 AM
Therefore,  a word of advice to members searching for FSUW mates: if you are captivated by a nice photo, DO give it to Google Images/TinEye to chew on - you may be surprised by the result, one way or the other ;).

Please add Yandex image search to this list - I often find images of folk from the FSU sites that t'other 'western' sites miss

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on July 19, 2019, 09:47:37 AM
DD #122

Natalia Wasiluk from Zgorzelec, Poland (?)/Elya, Olya, Marina, Nika, Lena from Moscow

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/Olya1.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#NATALYAWASILUK

Moby was right, Yandex Images yielded more photo locations, for this DD as well as other already known ones :).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: msmob on July 20, 2019, 12:22:18 AM
Thanks, Sandro

I found SC using Yandex images ...  ( her dating profiles were long unused )  - so I used those images to track her down to a place where she'd read my attempts to contact her

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on August 05, 2019, 10:18:53 AM
DD 123rd to 126th

Yandex Images yielded a bunch of additional DDs, most from a "Galaxy" of 65 SPB sites. I shall post a few at a time because it takes time to update my list.

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/bb7a7db17c5a0057_200x320.jpg)
Oksana Nazvanova/Neonila-Emili-Katya-Dora
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#OKSANANAZVANOVA

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/f665403e5da3dc32_200x320.png)
Elena Gotovchikova-Elena Gotovka/Dora-Emma
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ELENAGOTOVCHIKOVA

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/1d42b16c52b10f36327c488938727540643c4638.jpg)
Kira Draft/Alina
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#KiraDraft

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/1514369125_f1.jpg)
Milena Magomedova/Dayana
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#MILENAMAGOMEDOVA
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: jone on August 05, 2019, 10:53:15 AM
DD 123rd to 126th

Yandex Images yielded a bunch of additional DDs, most from a "Galaxy" of 65 SPB sites. I shall post a few at a time because it takes time to update my list.

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/bb7a7db17c5a0057_200x320.jpg)
Oksana Nazvanova/Neonila-Emili-Katya-Dora
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#OKSANANAZVANOVA

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/f665403e5da3dc32_200x320.png)
Elena Gotovchikova-Elena Gotovka/Dora-Emma
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ELENAGOTOVCHIKOVA

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/1d42b16c52b10f36327c488938727540643c4638.jpg)
Kira Draft/Alina
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#KiraDraft

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/1514369125_f1.jpg)
Milena Magomedova/Dayana
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#MILENAMAGOMEDOVA

None of 'em are exactly Helen of Troy, Sandro.  LOL.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on August 05, 2019, 02:54:35 PM
None of 'em are exactly Helen of Troy, Sandro.  LOL.
Agreed, but no Parises either, here :D.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ri7Vf61XzeU/Vlt_KpWymwI/AAAAAAAABIQ/ERAhthA2Dh4/s1600/Helen%2Bof%2BTroy.jpg)
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: jone on August 05, 2019, 05:10:50 PM
Agreed, but no Parises either, here :D.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ri7Vf61XzeU/Vlt_KpWymwI/AAAAAAAABIQ/ERAhthA2Dh4/s1600/Helen%2Bof%2BTroy.jpg)

That's my middle name!    8)
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on August 06, 2019, 12:07:16 PM
127th DD

Angela-Nataliya Perkatyuk-Dasha Sobchakova-Masha Patapova/Apollinariya-Natusik-Sasha-Vika:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/42141556059f4293_875_700.jpg) (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/7bb8639f3a436f88_875_700.jpg) (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/efa764a6a1353db0_875_700.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#DASHASOBCHAKOVA

Not quite like Helen of Troy, but I hope Jone will accept her nonetheless ;D.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on August 06, 2019, 12:08:19 PM
127th DD
Angela-Nataliya Perkatyuk-Dasha Sobchakova-Masha Patapova/Apollinariya-Natusik-Sasha-Vika:

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/42141556059f4293_875_700.jpg) (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/7bb8639f3a436f88_875_700.jpg) (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/efa764a6a1353db0_875_700.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#DASHASOBCHAKOVA (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#DASHASOBCHAKOVA)

Not quite like Helen of Troy, but I hope Jone will accept her nonetheless ;D .


Jone has been known to sacrifice for the greater good. 
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: jone on August 06, 2019, 12:49:06 PM
My wallet feels empty just looking at her.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 06, 2019, 04:31:08 PM
Sandro,

             Anastasia/Lena Petrova who you've slipped in between Double Dealers 122 and 123 on your list doesn't look anywhere near 39 years old to me,and I can confirm the photo's of the girl used are very recent as I've seen and chatted with her on webcam.


Methinks anybody booking Anastasia/Lena Petrova will not get the girl in the photos's turning up for a paid night of carnal pleasure.


I have pointed out to you before that many of the escort girls/prostitutes on the internet are using other girls photo's.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on August 06, 2019, 04:32:00 PM
My wallet feels empty just looking at her.


But your heart will be full.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on August 07, 2019, 06:32:56 AM
Sandro, Anastasia/Lena Petrova who you've slipped in between Double Dealers 122 and 123 on your list doesn't look anywhere near 39 years old to me,
Well, the date of birth she gives in her VK profile (http://vk.com/id250847232) is March 15, 1980 8).
Quote
I can confirm the photo's of the girl used are very recent as I've seen and chatted with her on webcam.
They first appeared in Feb. 2016, not so very recently. Did you tell her about her photos on hooker sites? What about her profiles on several dating sites under different names?
Quote
Methinks anybody booking Anastasia/Lena Petrova will not get the girl in the photos's turning up for a paid night of carnal pleasure. I have pointed out to you before that many of the escort girls/prostitutes on the internet are using other girls photo's.
Generally they "borrow" photos of actresses/models/porn stars whose looks probably bear some similarity to theirs.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on August 07, 2019, 10:08:07 AM
DDs 128th & 129th

A glutton for exposure on social profiles (18 on 11 sites at least):

Alenka Siva-Aleska-Ana-Anya Aleksandrova-Arina Berezutskaya-Arina Kot-Elina Romanova-Irisha-Krasotka-Kristina Volochkova-Marina Zaika-Nadezhda Smirnova-Nastya Ivanova-Sveta Klimova-Viktoriya Shevchenko/Bronislava-Ivy-Magdalina-Vika
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/8979cde4949260a9_600_600.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#MAGDALINA

Tatyana/Vika
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/e352bd0d4ca0995e_400x400.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#TATYANA-VIKA
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: msmob on August 07, 2019, 10:13:52 AM
Did you tell her about her photos on hooker sites? What about her profiles on several dating sites under different names?

 :ROFL:
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Grumpy on August 07, 2019, 12:28:01 PM
Alenka Siva-Aleska-Ana-Anya Aleksandrova-Arina Berezutskaya-Arina Kot-Elina Romanova-Irisha-Krasotka-Kristina Volochkova-Marina Zaika-Nadezhda Smirnova-Nastya Ivanova-Sveta Klimova-Viktoriya Shevchenko/Bronislava-Ivy-Magdalina-Vika

I think I will avoid her.  The clerk might burst into tears if they have to type that long name on a marriage certificate. :ROFL:
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 07, 2019, 02:50:23 PM
Sandro,

              As I don't visit Russian hooker sites why would I have told her about her photo's being on them ?

So..do the photos taken three years ago look like a 39 year-old woman to you ?

and no ..hookers don't use fake photo's of girls that look like them...that would rather defeat the point of not using their own photo's.


Look at the reviews of hookers on Eurogirlsescort.com...you may learn something.The clients say the girls using fake photo's look NOTHING like the girl in the photo's,including old hookers using photo's of young women..ho hum.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on August 07, 2019, 03:57:15 PM
As I don't visit Russian hooker sites why would I have told her about her photo's being on them ?
To warn a "friend" of an awkward situation, possibly damaging her reputation ;).
Quote
So..do the photos taken three years ago look like a 39 year-old woman to you ?
Those photos were posted 3 years ago, not necessarily taken then. On social sites, women - and men - often post photos from their younger years, too.
Quote
and no ..hookers don't use fake photos of girls that look like them...that would rather defeat the point of not using their own photo's.
You discount the possibly unpleasant reaction of clients faced with a totally different-looking person ::). Not using one's photos may serve several purposes: marketing (to dupes), economic (saving from expensive photo sessions), camouflage (hiding their business activity from relatives, friends, etc.), and so on.
Quote
Look at the reviews of hookers on Eurogirlsescort.com...you may learn something.The clients say the girls using fake photo's look NOTHING like the girl in the photo's,including old hookers using photo's of young women..ho hum.
That site has some 2,000 reviews. Your sentence "The clients say the girls using fake photo's look NOTHING like the girl in the photo's" is an oxymoron. What else would you expect them to say :-\?
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 07, 2019, 06:01:58 PM
Sandro,

          As I don't visit dodgy Russian hooker sites I don't see photo's of girls on them ,so how could I possibly have warned the girl concerned ?


Russia,the land of deception and corruption,why on Earth would anyone believe anything coming out of there ? Especially when dealing with hookers of all people.They're not exactly known for their high morals are they ?

I spoke with the girl concerned late last year and she looks exactly as she does on the photo's you've posted..nearer 25 than 39.,..which casts a huge doubt on the veracity of the info you posted about "her".


What else would you expect a client who has booked a 20 year-old beauty,going by her photo's, only to be confronted with a 40 year-old mess upon opening his door, and who is clearly not the girl in the photo's ,to say ?
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on August 07, 2019, 06:38:42 PM
I spoke with the girl concerned late last year.
Chelseaboy, I thought you were still in contact.
Quote
and she looks exactly as she does on the photo's you've posted..nearer 25 than 39.,..which casts a huge doubt on the veracity of the info you posted about "her"
The info I posted about her was obtained from her VK profiles, which I must assume SHE submitted 8).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Chelseaboy on August 08, 2019, 03:03:49 AM
Sandro,

          No ,late last year is the last time I was in contact with her.

VK profiles are as reliable as Facebook profiles..many are fake with fake photos.

Women don't normally claim to be older than they are,unless they're young 15 year old girls trying to get into a club/pub,so that should tell you something about how reliable a profile of a 39 year-old woman using the photos of a woman currently in her twenties is.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on August 09, 2019, 06:28:47 PM
DDs 130th, 131st, 132nd, 133rd

ALYONKA VINOGRADOVA-KATYA BRUKHOVETSKAYA-MARINA ZVETAEVA-MILA FILATOVA-SOFIYA POPOVA/
KYUSHA-LIGHT LADY-MERI-OKSANA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/7e9942be38a496d2_200x320.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ALYONKAVINOGRADOVA

EVELINA KLIMCHENKO-NASTASIYA DEMIDOVA-TATYANA FOMICHEVA-TATYANA KRYLOVA/
ANZHELA-ANYUTKA-VIKTORIYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/6afd2368430a279d_200x320.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#NASTASIYADEMIDOVA

VERONIKA KULIKOVSKAYA/ALEKSANDRA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/2e751f3ed38b0175_200x320.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#VERONIKAKULIKOVSKAYA

ELENA TIHONOVA/ROSA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/42617d8f0f495007_200x320.png)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ELENATIHONOVA
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on August 13, 2019, 04:12:41 PM
DDs 134th to 138th

I finally concluded (phew, a LOT of work!) my survey of a "Galaxy" of 65 SPB sites (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/SiteList.htm#G65) with plenty of DDs. Here are the last ones:

MARIYA VILSON/ALEKSA-ALENA-EMILY-MILANA-SANDRA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/da4fad44e51e4acd_200x320.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#MARIYAVILSON

ANASTASIYA ALEKSANDROVNA LYAPINA-ALINA SOBOLEVA/ZHANNA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/3bb16abddbaecc3c_200x320.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ANASTASIYALYAPINA

KSYUSHA DUBOVSKAYA/MARINA-NARINA-OLYA-YULIYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/75a9f2faec1dbe11_200x320.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#KSYUSHADUBOVSKAYA

ANNA/ANASTASIA/ANYUTA KONDRATENKO/KAROLINA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/1e4a8be59eb7a5d2_200x320.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ANYUTAKONDRATENKO

CHIKKI-VIKTORIYA FILIPENKO-VIKULEA/LARISA-LILYA-MILA-SCARLET-YANA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/d852472f7a81fb67_200x320.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#VIKTORIYAFILIPENKO

There is still one missing according to my count, but I shall locate her eventually ;).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on August 21, 2019, 09:52:56 AM
DDs 139th to 140th

Sasha Moskvitina/Adria-Greta
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/a329237fd9a20b08_200x320.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#SASHAMOSKVITINA

YULIYA BREZHNEVA/ARYANA-NASTYA-SONYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/fbc22d5ada76f811_500_700.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#YULIYABREZHNEVA

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: ML on August 21, 2019, 12:33:25 PM
Pictures remind me that I once read back in 2000 or so that in a survey, a large number of late teen gals in Russia stated their goal was to be a 'hard currency' prostitute.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: jone on August 21, 2019, 03:20:40 PM
I'm still trying to figure out where Sandro gives them the moniker DD's.   They don't look anything over a C to me.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on August 21, 2019, 06:47:43 PM
I'm still trying to figure out where Sandro gives them the moniker DD's. They don't look anything over a C to me.
NOT referring to cup size :D.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on September 17, 2019, 05:58:53 PM
DDs 141 to 149

A thorough scan of a Galaxy of 51 MSK sites (http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/SiteList.htm#G51) yielded 9 new DDs as well as updates to 24 DDs already known.

I do not have the time to list in detail the new DDs as I usually do, so anybody interested in having a look at them should start with with the most recent one at http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#MARIANNAMARUSKA and work his/her way upwards sequentially through the other 8 preceding it ;).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on September 19, 2019, 05:31:01 PM
DD 150

ALINA-ANASTASIYA MILOSSKAYA-JULIA RUBASHKINA-EKATERINA/KATYA GLUSHENKO-KSENIYA GALITSEVA-KRISTINA ALTYOVA-MADINA AHMEDOVA-NASTYA ONISHCHUK-TANYUSHKA GRISIO / KIRA-LYUBA-RAYA-VIKKI

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/p163423_1.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#KATYAGLUSHENKO
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: ML on September 19, 2019, 08:24:55 PM
Sandro, how do these gals keep it straight each day as to what name they need to answer to?
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: msmob on September 20, 2019, 05:11:15 AM
I think some members who like to keep their hand in with dating....'to help other guys ', of course..could tell you?

Seriously, when I was looking, I used Thunderbird email client and kept the dating stuff separate from work emails.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on September 20, 2019, 07:20:06 AM
Sandro, how do these gals keep it straight each day as to what name they need to answer to?
They seldom give out their email address in social-media profiles, thus their initial contacts are mostly through a specific identity variant there 8).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on September 22, 2019, 05:49:36 PM
DD 151

Today I received a letter from 36 y.o. Lina Rudenko:

"One meeting is better than 100 letters!!! And think that you agree with me. How serious are your intentions in finding your soul mate here? As for me, I am a real lady with serious intentions and am not going to waste your time or to exchange endless letters. I can prove you that am REAL!!! I am a very romantic person and like to surprise my beloved man. I am also very caring, honest, loyal, passionate, sensual, sexual and I wrote here just few of my traits I know how to love and how to treat a man and I will do everything for my second half! Hope to hear from you back. Have a wonderful day! Sincerely, Lina"

She turned out to be Keti from a Moscow salon, DD #151 ;):

(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/JmXJGenfYAWdqcSzeruC8JYFP.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#LINARUDENKO
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: ML on September 22, 2019, 06:15:17 PM
Well . . . she wants to 'hear from you back.'
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on October 06, 2019, 08:56:07 AM
DD 152 to 158

A "Galaxy" of 83 MSK sites yielded 7 new DDs:

ANASTASIYA FRIMAN/YANA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/1b45b010.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ANASTASIYAFRIMAN

ALENA KAMINSKAYA-DARIA ZEHAN-KRISTINA SMIRNOVA-OLGA OSTANENKO/ANASTASIYA-DIANA-KAROLINA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/aa0b1943f5808c73_875x780.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#OLGAOSTANENKO

MARIANA KISULKINA/ALINA-DINA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/6564c5680c40d7a4_500x500.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogoco.htm#MARIANAKISULKINA

ANNA VESELOVA/ANYUTKA-NASTYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/ddfd34eaab68ccf7_500x500.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ANNAVESELOVA

ALINA GUROVA/NASTYA
(http://www.floriani.it/doppiogoco.htm/6a8f0805d8115656_500x500.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ALINAGUROVA

ALISA REZNICHENKO-OLGA ERMOLAEVA-VIKA KOVALCHUK-SVETLANA NOVIKOVA-SASHA ROSTOVA-ULYANA SHUTROVA/FELITSATA-KARINA-MISS LUCY
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/5c174735be55470f_500x500.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogoco.htm#OLGAERMOLAEVA

ALINA-VIKA-YANA AKSIONOVA/TANYUSHA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/de5b68201519dd03_875x780.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#YANAAKSIONOVA
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: ML on October 06, 2019, 09:29:13 AM
Sandro, I don't understand how you find these gals.

I don't have access to any photo comparison software that could ever come close to matching up faces like you do.

Do you have the software from Huawei, like the Chinese government has, to identify and track people ??
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: msmob on October 06, 2019, 12:30:21 PM
ML...

You do..

Use Firefox, right click and you'll see a myriad of search options for each photo.


Sandro must have patience in abundance
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on October 06, 2019, 05:25:36 PM
Do you have the software from Huawei, like the Chinese government has, to identify and track people ??
No, I am using standard SW like Google Image Search, TinEye and, thanks to Msmob's suggestion a while ago, Yandex Image Search.

The latter is much faster than the others, and produces more hits ;).
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on October 06, 2019, 05:35:02 PM
Use Firefox, right click and you'll see a myriad of search options for each photo.
I tried it now on Friman's photo, and a right click did not produce any "myriad of search options", only standard options :(.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: ML on October 06, 2019, 08:14:05 PM
When I right click on Firefox I get nothing that has anything to do with photos or pictures or such.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Grumpy on October 06, 2019, 08:25:15 PM
When I right click on Firefox I get nothing that has anything to do with photos or pictures or such.

You need to add "search by image" extension to Firefox. That will give you 5 image search options.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: ML on October 06, 2019, 08:27:08 PM
No, I am using standard SW like Google Image Search, TinEye and, thanks to Msmob's suggestion a while ago, Yandex Image Search.

The latter is much faster than the others, and produces more hits ;).

I went to Google Image Search and tried pictures of 12 people including movie stars and political figures.
Hits returned  were ZERO
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on October 07, 2019, 06:17:00 AM
You need to add "search by image" extension to Firefox. That will give you 5 image search options.
Done. However, that does not do a search directly but gives a list of tools, including the ones I already use, to perform it.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Grumpy on October 07, 2019, 07:52:08 AM
Done. However, that does not do a search directly but gives a list of tools, including the ones I already use, to perform it.

I generally pick the "all" option and let them all work simultaneously. Hopefully that will save you some time. :)
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on October 07, 2019, 06:03:54 PM
I generally pick the "all" option and let them all work simultaneously.
I cannot see any "all" option, but maybe I did not install fireFox correctly on Windows ;D:

(http://scontent.fmxp4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/71583683_2356023814495408_7846830324087521280_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_oc=AQke0kpK3VpE31TAMf0SIUB2qqGDW0BEAjVMlW-vg0eUREjtAKuZo6IhFOy0puIYo4w&_nc_ht=scontent.fmxp4-1.fna&oh=dc04ad9bb207173b246bf004913240da&oe=5E3DA714)
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: jone on October 07, 2019, 07:00:19 PM
Plenty of foxes up above.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on October 13, 2019, 09:08:35 AM
DDs 159 & 160

ANASTASIYA/ALEXANDRA-ELENA-ILONA-MILA-MONIKA-RITA-STELLA-TAISIA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/p138970_1.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#LONGLEGS

AYSU ABBASOVA/BELLA-JULIA-RITA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/thumb-270x405--2562-d82bd83c6b2212e37da230eef14b977e-3MlRoj0j2HI.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#AYSUABBASOVA
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: ML on October 18, 2019, 04:59:34 PM
DDs 159 & 160
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/p138970_1.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#LONGLEGS


I am a real sucker for slender thighs.  Keep her away from me Sandro !!
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on October 23, 2019, 10:26:55 AM
DDs 161 to 165

Many young and attractive FSU girls flock to Moscow, aspiring to a modelling or TV career, from far-away places like Kaliningrad or even Vladivostok. Like moths drawn to a candle flame. many get their wings burnt and eventually have to settle for a Sugar Daddy - or the oldest profession.

Below are 5 examples from a newly-discovered "Constellation" of 4 MSK/SPB/Rus sites, also updating several already known DDs.

YANA FOMINA/ANGELINA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/bigp32711_189279-400x475.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#YANAFOMINA

ANNA AVERINA-MALISHKA-MARIYA LYUBCHICH-OLESYA FIRSANOVA-OLGA KOROLYOVA/LENA-LISA-NATASHA-OLYA-TANYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/resize_1477763330644.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#MARIYALYUBCHICH

VERONIKA KALINOVSKAYA/DANA-MARIYA-MARINA-MASHA-OLYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/thumb_1475858134218.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#VERONIKAKALINOVSKAYA

ALENA BEREZOVA-ALENA GUSEVA/ALENA-TANYA-ZHESMIN
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/thumb_1482892928353.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ALENABEREZOVA

KSYUSHA VERNER-RADUHNAYA-VREDINA/KATYA-MARIYA-SONYA-SVETA-ZHENYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/be3691fe74afedd6_500_700.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#KSYUSHAVERNER
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: jone on October 23, 2019, 10:30:03 AM
DDs 161 to 165

Many young and attractive FSU girls flock to Moscow, aspiring to a modelling or TV career, from far-away places like Kaliningrad or even Vladivostok. Like moths drawn to a candle flame. many get their wings burnt and eventually have to settle for a Sugar Daddy - or the oldest profession.

Below are 5 examples from a newly-discovered "Constellation" of 4 MSK/SPB/Rus sites, also updating several already known DDs.

YANA FOMINA/ANGELINA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/bigp32711_189279-400x475.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#YANAFOMINA

ANNA AVERINA-MALISHKA-MARIYA LYUBCHICH-OLESYA FIRSANOVA-OLGA KOROLYOVA/LENA-LISA-NATASHA-OLYA-TANYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/resize_1477763330644.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#MARIYALYUBCHICH

VERONIKA KALINOVSKAYA/DANA-MARIYA-MARINA-MASHA-OLYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/thumb_1475858134218.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#VERONIKAKALINOVSKAYA

ALENA BEREZOVA-ALENA GUSEVA/ALENA-TANYA-ZHESMIN
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/thumb_1482892928353.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ALENABEREZOVA

KSYUSHA VERNER-RADUHNAYA-VREDINA/KATYA-MARIYA-SONYA-SVETA-ZHENYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/be3691fe74afedd6_500_700.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#KSYUSHAVERNER

Sandro,

These women all look like they would eat me up and spit me out like a bad grape seed.  They all make a certain part of my anatomy shrink to the size of raisins contemplating a relationship with them.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: msmob on October 23, 2019, 01:09:55 PM
Jone,

This is surprising to read, given your predilection for taking photos (from hidden positions  / great distances ) of  'ol gits meeting with such lasses at McDonalds..

Ah well, to each his own ... 
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on October 29, 2019, 11:06:17 AM
DD #166

The "Constellation" mentioned below turned out to include not only 4 but 8 MSK/SPB/Rus sites, which involved several updates as well as a new DD:

ALINA GOTT-MONIKA KULINA/ALINA-MARINA-NATALIYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/bigp18149_2.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ALINAGOTT

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on November 14, 2019, 08:10:53 PM
DDs #167 to #173

DALI ALIYEVA/ALENA-ANNA-ANYA-EKATERINA-IRA-LILY
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/6c0ee323eda661df_500_700.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#DALIALIYEVA

LUISA KULESHOVA-LUIZA-OLGA BUSOVA-YULENKA LAKEEVA/ANNA-DASHA-IRA-LANA-LUIZA-MARGARITA-NATA-RUDENKO-RUSLANA-VLADISLAVA-YANA-YANOCHKA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/8fe38c2b3e431809928f3697e205d72f2098eabd_thumb.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#OLGABUSOVA

KSENIYA BELOUSOVA-LIANA/KRISTINA-MASHA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/MASHA1.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#KSENIYABELOUSOVA

ANGELIKA ANDREEVA-VERONIKA CHERNOVA/DANA-EVA-LIKA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/6982df11f2e31952c1f83cffa4c56d3324f7d04c_thumb.jpeg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#VERONIKACHERNOVA

ANASTASIYA TKACHENCKO/DINA-LENA-MARISHKA VOLKOVA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/dbe4dd2ae0ccd17a54bc40d6700641aec4727b3a_thumb.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ANASTASIYATKACHENCKO

ALEKSANDRA SAMOILOVA-GERA/GERA-KRISTINA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/a55de96c734e48a94fdd1d81ad1ab6b90e3ecd50_thumb.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ALEKSANDRASAMOILOVA

ELENA ALEKSANDROVNA-DARYA EVTUSHENKO-GALINA GORDEEVA/DARYA DAVYDOVA-VALYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/c52c5bf37bd2d2bf18f44c66bcd68e7ad0481f03.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#DARYAEVTUSHENKO




Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on November 18, 2019, 11:34:33 AM
DDs #174 to #180

NYUTA ANTONOVA/ALINA-ZHANNA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/e71652bf14633e27ac65721664375864b58e90a6.png)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#NYUTAANTONOVA

ALINA/ALINKA YAIKOVA/ALINA-ZHANNA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/fcc557327b22307b5d5389c5a2824d396de37103.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ALINKAYAIKOVA

ALESYA/ANYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/20d80d977495c215c4b3dddd2bddd59c8c942a37.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ALESYA-ANYA

ALENA/ALYONA SMYSLOVA-ALENA STEPANOVA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/a3d9091d2a69f73660ce0adfda948450f5a07585.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ALYONASMYSLOVA

ANASTASIYA TIHONOVA/ELINA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/762a8ec3510719f5fa6f17f4af52e01f7bcb5287_thumb.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ANASTASIYATIHONOVA

YULIYA SHATOKHINA/ELINA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/3b5ff504bbe56088a961fdb52fc13118ebf76f8e.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#YULIYASHATOKHINA

LERA-DIANA LEBEDEVA-VALERIYA BELOVA/MARINA-MARINOCHKA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/6d8bcbc36709eab77dc4e63991270d9462963323.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#VALERIYABELOVA
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on November 20, 2019, 07:13:37 PM
DDs #181 to # 185

KRISTINA ELISEEVA-MARINA VOLKOVA-MARMELADKA-VIKA-VIKTORIYA FILATOVA-YULIYA NAUMOVA/MASHA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/2692_0.jpeg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ELISEEVA-FILATOVA-NAUMOVA-VOLKOVA

DARIA/ELINA-RITA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/23118_0.jpeg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#DARIA-ELINA-RITA

KRISTINA AKSENOVA/POLINA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/6006_2.jpeg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#KRISTINA-AKSENOVA

DARINA SYLKINA/DARINA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/35009.jpeg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#DARINA-SYLKINA

SVETLANA KUSNIZOVA/KARINA-LERA-LEROCHKA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/6061_4.jpeg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#SVETLANA-KUSNIZOVA
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on December 03, 2019, 07:28:11 PM
DDs #186 to #192

SVETA GONCHARENKO/ELVIRA-JULIA-LERA-MASHA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/main%20(2).jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#SVETA-GONCHARENKO

IRKA PAVLOVA/ANYUTA-BORISLAVA-BRILLIANT-KATYA-KRISTINA-MILA-RITA-SNEZHANA-VERA-VIKA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/main%20(3).jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#IRKA-PAVLOVA

NATASHA FILLIPOVNA-SONYA SINKEVICH/ELSA-LIORA-MASHKA-TANYA-TANYUSHA-TATYANA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/rAyUp2sW9-s.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#NATASHA-FILLIPOVNA

ANASTASIYA MENSHIKOVA/KATYA-LIKA-MARIANNA-PLATONIDA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/MARIANNA1.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ANASTASIYA-MENSHIKOVA

RUSLANA/KATYA-VIKA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/3fbb8e8410a927db76_420x420.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#RUSLANA-KATYA-VIKA

ANASTASIYA MILLER-VICTORIA/ALIKA-ANGELA-ANZHELA-POLINA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/img602019348_t1555034299.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ANASTASIYA-MILLER

ALYONA LAPINA-ILONA ZHUZHINA/LUISA-MARIYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/11d29492cfc917c0_225x225.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ALYONALAPINA-ILONAZHUZHINA


Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on December 25, 2019, 05:55:03 AM
DDs #193 to #208

NASTYA MAXIMOVA-VERONIKA SMIRNOVA-NATALI/ALISA-EVELINA-KRISTINA-LERA-SONYA-VIKA-VIKTORIYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/lp91441_1.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#NASTYAMAXIMOVA-VERONIKASMIRNOVA

ANASTASIYA KARELINA-ALYONA VOROPAEVA-ELENA SILENKO/LENA-ZLATA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/p111162_1.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#GRIGORIEVA-KARELINA-SILENKO-VOROPAEVA

ALINA PEDYNA-ANASTASIYA-VASILISA LEBEDEVA/ALENA-SYMPATICHNAYA NYMPHA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/lp62292_1.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#LEBEDEVA-PEDYNA

VICTORIA REMEZOVSKAYA/SVETA-VIKKIX69
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/lp101692_1.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#VICTORIA-REMEZOVSKAYA

ANZHELIKA/YANOCHKA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/lp70008_2.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ANZHELIKA-YANOCHKA

YANA P./EVA-INNA-MASHA-OKSANA-YANA P.-YANOCHKA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/lp36296_1.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#YANA-P

DARYA VOROBYOVA-IZABELLA ZOLOTOVA-ELISAVETA PERECHNEVA/ALESYA-OLYA-VARYA-VITA-YANOCHKA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/24817315257233603.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#PERECHNEVA-VOROBYOVA-ZOLOTOVA

POLINA SAMOYLOVA-VERONIKA OSIPOVA/LIKA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/p21801_1.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#OSIPOVA-SAMOYLOVA

MARTA KOSHEL-MILENA KRASILNIKOVA-ANZHELA MAXIMOVA/ALISA-ANASTASIYA-KATYA-KRISTINA-MASHA-MISRA-NIKA-SHALUNYA-SVETA-VIKA/KOSHEL-KRASILNIKOVA-MAXIMOVA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/p250191_4.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#KOSHEL-KRASILNIKOVA-MAXIMOVA

ANZHELA KISELYOVA-EKATERINA DMITRIEVA-ELENA STARKOVA-MASHKA-SNEZHANA KAMENEVA-SVETA SERGEEVA-VIKA ALMAZOVA/EVGENYA-KSYUSHA-LEDIANA-MASHA-NATASHA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/main%20(1).jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#KISELYOVA-DMITRIEVA-KAMENEVA-SERGEEVA-STARKOVA

ALINOCHKA TITOVA-MEILUKE-YULIYA/GEILE NADINE-IRA-NASTYA-SVETA-YULIYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/SVETA.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ALINOCHKA-TITOVA

KARINA KARDELIAN-LINA /ANELYA-EVA-KATYA POZHALOVATSYA-MARINA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/ANELYA.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#KARIMOVA-KARDELIAN

VLADISLAVA SHVETS-ZHANNA SOKOLOVA/ALEXA-ALINA-DAINA-LIKA-MASHA-POLINA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/8fdf69270f1d81280d8f066a4dbbe275.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#SHVETS-SOKOLOVA

ELENA USHAKOVA/ALINA-ANYUTA-ELENA-MASHA-OLESYA-VIKTORIYA-VLADA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/MASHA.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ELENA-USHAKOVA

EKATERINA NUT/ALESSA-TANYA-TANYUSHA-TANYUSHKA-TATYANA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/lp13244_1.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#EKATERINA-NUT

ANNA SINITSINA-DINA KONKOVA-KRISTINA ALAEVA-MARIA/MASHA TRAVNIKOVA-VIKTORIYA KURGINA-ATKINA/ADRIANA-ALISA-KARINA-LARA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/p23829_1.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#SINITSINA-KONKOVA-ALAEVA
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on January 08, 2020, 07:33:36 PM
DDs #209 to #213

AFINA MALIKOVA-ALINA-ELLINA ROMANOVA-KIRA ANDREEVA NESTEREVA-KATYUSHKA-KRISTINA LUBISHEVA/ALLA-ANASTASIYA-DASHA-KATERINA-OLESYA-SERENA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/Katerina24.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#MALIKOVA-NESTEREVA

ALINKA KUZNETSOVA-IRINA KOCHETKOVA-LARISKA/ALYONA-YULIYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/Yuliya231.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#KOCHETKOVA-KUZNETSOVA

KSYUSHA GROZNAYA-MARIA ANOHINA/MARIYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/Mariya241.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ANOHINA-GROZNAYA

MARINA LEONOVA-OKSANA NAGUTINA/MARIYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/Margo231.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#LEONOVA-NAGUTINA

AYTEN/ALLA-ANNET-ARINA-ELENA-ELECHKA-FELICITATA-INGA-KAPRIS-LIORA-MARINA-MILA-ULYANA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/h-26.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#AYTEN
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on January 13, 2020, 10:39:40 AM
DDs #214 to #218

ALINA-ANNA AZAROVA-ANATOLYA BORISOVA-KATYA BIRYUKOVA-EVGENYA SHVEDOV-DIANA-MARGO/LENA-LILIYA-POLINA-YULIYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/Polina20.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#AZAROVA-BIRYUKOVA-BORISOVA-SHVEDOV

JENNIFER-OLGA KATYSHEVA/CICI-LOLA-MILANA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/LOLA25)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#OLGAKATYSHEVA

DEVCHENOCHKA-KRISTI-LYUBASHA DESYATOVA/NASTYA-SONYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/252e7c01811fe53723b54983f2631b886dc616cf.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#LYUBASHA-DESYATOVA

VIKTORIA/ULYANA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/8344cf1a2c6c0224667ba7536f09d0ab70196917.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#VIKTORIA-ULYANA

MARI/KATKA-KIRA-MAYA-MODEL73-RADOCHKA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/46f32ad760330381be7a09712051bb91b9999bcd.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#MARI-MAYA

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on January 22, 2020, 11:52:41 AM
DDs #219 to #230

ANNA GOLUBEVA-ANYUTA NIKULINA-GALINA POLINA/ALENA-ALLA-DARYA-KATYA-MADISTA-MARINNA-OLENKA-OLYA-SONIA-TANYA-YULIYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/aEi3ILyUZ6o.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#GOLUBEVA-NIKULINA

ALEXANDRA DOLGOVA-EKATERINA ERMAKOVA/ANZHELIKA-DASHA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/pjJAGMc9oqc.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#DOLGOVA-ERMAKOVA

JULIA/SOFIYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/Sofiya201.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#JULIA-SOFIYA

ELENA ROMANOVA-MILANA SVETLOVA-NATASHA MANKOVSKAYA/IRINA-MARIZA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/Irina22.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#MANKOVSKAYA-ROMANOVA-SVETLOVA

DIANA ANDREEVA-KSENIA-LIKA ANDREEVA-VALERIA ROMANOVA-ANNA VLADIMIROVA/LENA-LINDA-OLYA-YULYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/Lena24.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ANDREEVA-ROMANOVA-VLADIMIROVA

ALENA PONOMAREVA-DARINA VOYTOVA-KARINA VISHNEVSKAYA-MARINA PRONINA-SVETLANA TIMOSHENKO-VERONIKA SAMOYLOVA/NONA-YULIYA-ZHENYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/Zhenya24.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#PONOMAREVA-PRONINA-VOYTOVA-VISHNEVSKAYA

KSENIA KUROVA-DASHA MARKOVA/KATYUSHA-LARA-LYUBA-MASHENKA-VERA-VIKUSYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/Lyuba23.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#KUROVA-MARKOVA

ALENA-ALEXANDRA PEROVA-KARINA STEPNOVA-KATYA-NADYA BANNOVA-NIKA SMIRNOVA/TINA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/Tina25.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#PEROVA-STEPNOVA-BANNOVA-SMIRNOVA

VERA FEOKISTOVA-KATYA/DIANA-MARINA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/Diana26.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#VERA-FEOKISTOVA

KRISTINA CHANEL-OKSANA TSELOVALNOVA/EKATERINA-LENA-LESYA-LYUSYA-NASTYA-ZOYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/Ekaterina23.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#CHANEL-TSELOVALNOVA

ANGELINA VOLCHEK/CATHERINE-KIRA-LISA-MARINA-RITA-SOPHIE
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/Kira26.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ANGELINA-VOLCHEK

NATALYA ILYNA-OLGA IVANOVA-NADEZHDA OTROKOVA-SVETLANA PEROVA/ALLA-DASHA-NATALYA-OLYA-VARYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/Dasha25.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#PEROVA-STEPNOVA-BANNOVA-SMIRNOVA
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on January 26, 2020, 05:57:50 PM
DDs #231 to #236

LERA VASHKEVICH-MARIYA A/MARIYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/Mariya220.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#LERA-VASHKEVICH

MARIA BURKOVSKAYA-ANGELINA MALINOCHKA-AMELIYA SAFINA-ELENA TEPLOVA/VERONIKA-YANA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/photo_1_49354.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#BURKOVSKAYA-GRISHKO-SAFINA-TEPLOVA


EKATERINA GAVRILOVA-NATALIA KRIMOVA-NATALI SERGEEVA-VIKA SHARAPOVA/DIODORA-EVFIMIYA-POLINA-NIKA TINOVA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/Polina251.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#GAVRILOVA-KRIMOVA-SERGEEVA-SHARAPOVA

LISA-SOFA SOFA-ZHENYA MAKOVA/JESS RIGY-JULJA-RITA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/escort282988pic_1lf_t1570538811big.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ZHENYA-MAKOVA

MARINA SOLOMINA/MAYA-RITA-RUSLANA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/c1cf6acfe52cc00e2f4047352e1ae098.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#MARINA-SOLOMINA

ANYA SEMENOVA/GLORIA-JENNY-NATA-NASTYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/RvxBSfFCy2c.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ANYA-SEMENOVA



Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on February 01, 2020, 06:24:58 PM
DDs #237 to #241

DARYA OLEGOVNA/ADELINA-ANZHELA-KATYA-MARTA-NIKA-YANA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/402c36d6fd30dd7b_300_300.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#DARYA-OLEGOVNA

VIKTORIYA KUZNETSOVA/MARINA-SLAVA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/Marina211.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#VIKTORIYA-KUZNETSOVA

NINA ISTOMINA-DIANA NAUMOVA-OKSANA OVCHINNIKOVA-SVETLANA SMIRNOVA-ALYUSHKA SUVOROVA-MARIA USHAKOVA-SVETLANA YEGOROVA/YANA-YULIYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/XvDTkWF_cMY)http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ISTOMINA-NAUMOVA-OVCHINNIKOVA-SMIRNOVA-SUVOROVA-USHAKOVA-YEGOROVA

OLESYA/SOFIYA-VIKA/OLESYA-SOFIYA-VIKA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/fb416949b6d07851_300_300.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#OLESYA-SOFIYA-VIKA

LILIYA/ELYA-EVGENYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/MSK_962_8.jpeg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#LILIYA-ELYA-EVGENYA


Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on February 15, 2020, 10:50:13 AM
DDs #241 to #254

SVETA BILYALOVA-ALESYA KRUPYNINA/ELYA-DINA-INGA-KRISTINA-LIZA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/9Hcf1f8_Pac.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#BILYALOVA-KRUPYNINA

OLGA KOLCHEVA-ANYA KORNEEVA-EKATERINA SAMARINA-NATALYA SKVORTSOVA/POLINA-REDHEAD NURSE
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/Polina241.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#KOLCHEVA-KORNEEVA-SAMARINA-SKVORTSOVA

OKSANA ARTEMOVA-ALYONA GERT-ANYUTA KORETNIKOVA-ANYA MASLYAKOVA-OLYA PASTUSHENKO-JULIA PUSHMAN/MARCELINA-TOMA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/Toma231.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ARTEMOVA-GERT-KORETNIKOVA-MASLYAKOVA-PASTUSHENKO-PUSHMAN

DASHA-ELENA/ANDRIANA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/Andriana231.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#DASHA-ELENA-ANDRIANA

ELENA-DIANA DOLMATOVA/ANECHKA-ANYA-DINARA-KAROLINKA-MIRA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/Mira241.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#DIANA-DOLMATOVA

MARIA MARTSKAYA-REGINA RUSOVA/   ASHLEY-FIONA-IRINA-KARINA-KATYA-KSYUSHA-MASHA-MIRKA-OLYA-SOFIYA-VIKA-ZHASMIN
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/Irina261.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#MARTSKAYA-RUSOVA

ASYA FEDINA/ALENA-DASHA-ZHANNA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/Zhanna241.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#ASYA-FEDINA

NAILE MEMMEDOVA-EMINE YUSIFOVA-KAROLINA ZARINA/ALINA-SVETLANA-TASHIRA-ESMA SUMEYYE
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/Tashira293.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#NAILE-MEMMEDOVA

ALEKSANDRA KNOL-LENA SOLOVYEVA-NATA SVIR/INNA-SASHA-ZHENKA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/pic02.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#KNOL-SOLOVYEVA-SVIR

KSENYA-ANNA IVANOVA-TATYANA MAXIMOVA/ALISA-ALYONA-LOLA-LYUDMILA-NATASHA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/Natasha201.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#IVANOVA-MAXIMOVA

LYDIA SATTAROVA-IRINA ZIRENKO/MILANA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/376019.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#SATTAROVA-ZIRENKO

KRISTINA FLYOROVA-MARIA IVANOVA-MARIA KUZNEZOVA-ALENA MARKINA-MARINA NOVIKOVA/DASHA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/Dasha251.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#FLYOROVA-IVANOVA-KUZNEZOVA-MARKINA-NOVIKOVA

VALERIA VLADIMIROVNA PODLESNAYA/MAYA-NADYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/Maya251.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#VALERIA-VLADIMIROVNA-PODLESNAYA

YANA-MARIKA DOMINCHUK-DARIA KOCHETOVA/ALYONA-ASYA-MAGDALENA RIVEN-VIRGINIA SUN
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/Asya191.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#DOMINCHUK-KOCHETOVA

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: ML on February 15, 2020, 11:20:27 AM
Sandro, why do so many of your DDs have DDs ?
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on February 15, 2020, 12:08:54 PM
Sandro, why do so many of your DDs have DDs ?
? I am not sure I understand your question :-\, unless by DDs you mean something different from what I do.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on February 28, 2020, 08:53:50 AM
DDs #254 to #258

LENA GOLOVACH/LENA-MILANA-SOFIE LILITH
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/m_photo_72ec030c60683f82a46ad770d07ffec8-27140699670.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#LENA-GOLOVACH

EVGENYA TARABRINA/LIZA-MILANA-ROSTISLAVA-VANESSA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/c51e5f3f9f7f3b50af25d10a036dc21f1a36217e.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#EVGENYA-TARABRINA

MASHA SUDNIKOVA-ALMAZ VERMEZ/ALISA-ANGELINA-ANNE-DARYA-GLORI-LIA-NASTYA-NIKOL-SVETA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/d69b1b8f5707c4fd16e19652f6a98ffc15e7147a.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#SUDNIKOVA-VERMEZ

NATASHENKA-OLGA LARCHENKO-MOLDIR ORNALIEVA/SVETA-VALERIYA-VIKTORIYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/21dc7bfb5da0094035510fc38405fda660ddfcd7.jpeg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#LARCHENKO-ORNALIEVA

SNEZHANA DEYANOVA PETROVA/DANA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/bf9d15ab270a774aef7bb874cbe49c9ced093b75.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#DEYANOVA-PETROVA

LESYA-VIKA/LERA-OLYA-TANYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/0fc55e9dc78c40583d2af74502c63926546c4c78.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#LESYA-VIKA
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: ML on February 28, 2020, 10:16:32 AM
? I am not sure I understand your question :-\, unless by DDs you mean something different from what I do.

AA, A, B, C, D, DD
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on February 28, 2020, 07:14:19 PM
AA, A, B, C, D, DD
Aah, cup size. We use numbers (1-6) rather than letters, here.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: ML on February 28, 2020, 07:43:22 PM
Aah, cup size. We use numbers (1-6) rather than letters, here.

Yes, I know about the numbers but I suspected you, being a multinational guy, would catch on quickly.

Don't know if there is the equivalent of AA in your numbering system.
Basically something like a poached egg.

Anyway, I was once with a gal who proudly told she had 5's, and I am pretty sure they were DDs rather than Ds.  Too much for me.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on March 02, 2020, 05:43:53 PM
Yes, I know about the numbers but I suspected you, being a multinational guy, would catch on quickly.
I forgot to add that numbers are what the Rus/Ukr sites use normally, too.
Quote
Anyway, I was once with a gal who proudly told she had 5's
Gravity+age are usually a problem with large sizes. Women with a 2/B look alright up to an advanced age, 3/Cs often start to sag at mid 30, 4/Ds even before - according to what I see on those sites.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: SANDRO43 on March 02, 2020, 05:57:49 PM
DD #258
I had to correct my tally number when I realised that I had listed the same DD twice, due to different profile photos that later were reconciled, thanks to a new profile that merged them.

TALIA/KIRA-JULIA-MILA-RITA-TALIA-VERA-YANA-ZOYA
(http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/31480.jpg)
http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#TALIA
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: iloveukrayinkas on March 01, 2021, 01:55:06 AM
DARIA/ELINA-RITA

http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/doppiogioco.htm#DARIA-ELINA-RITA

Anybody still following this post? It was very interesting to read this and I was actually referred to
this post by Ildavo. And yes, seems Sandro did have a lot of time to invest in this project. I wonder for
how longer will it still be up on that floriani.it site of his.
This girl Daria actually messaged me on LADADATE and I had already found her on the top-escort.com
site for a similar investigation that I was running on these women on Lada.
the link is actually : topescort/nika-624354

The other interesting one is Anastasiya from Kharkov who is also on LADA, I have almost all her photos
and also found it very interesting to find her on a Russian prostitute website even before viewing Sandro's post.
In both cases I believe it is very hard to prove these are the actual escorts that will show up on your meeting
as 100% of the girls in Ukraine I messaged on Whapp provided different photos than the ones used on the sites to
advertise.

Even this Darya picture with her tit uncovered seems it could also be a a look-alike who so happened to
find Darya's profile on the marriage or bride sites. Of course if there are other photos of her naked with her
face uncovered and you can see it is really her then that's another story.

I contacted Anastasia's ad on that russian prostitute site and she said what her rate was:
$125 hr!!!
$150  2hrs
$300  6hrs

Woah so cheap!!?? To me seems like a bargain for a girl THAT beautiful! Give me the WHOLE WEEKEND package then!! hahaha
It also seems funny someone, i think msob, stating he was a sucker for lean thighs haha, really alluring young girl.
I asked her if she was really the one on that picture or just for reference and she just replied : Yes
After that she didn't clarify and didn't send any proof either. Some other escorts just send you their real pictures
as stating, "this is the real me ok?" Which can be a very similar girl but not the INSTA model photos they stole.
She left my last messages on Read but made no further contact, which to me means that she is just stealing that
ukrainian bride from Karkovs photos.

This was also confirmed to me by David Murphey, who's seen dozens of russian and ukrainian brides profile photos
stolen and used for prostitute sites. I'd say 90%+ of escort sites photos are stolen or stock photos and not the real girl
herself. Even the ones that say "Verified photos", that is not a guarantee unless you go to an escort site which has
reviews from customers who have already been with her and can confirm the veracity of her profile there. Some guys even
tip you off by saying 10% photoshop or 30% photoshop.
So if she is not on one of those escort review sites then it almost definitely is not her.

With this I'm not stating that Double dealers do not exist, rather, be skeptikal with women with the level of beauty as
the ones I referenced on this post as most of them don't even need to be prostituting themselves as most can get a sugar
daddy who can sustain their lifestyles just like that and without exposing their identities on the web.

Cheers guys and would love to read some comments!
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: iloveukrayinkas on March 01, 2021, 02:05:34 AM
Oh, and forgot to report!
Nika/ Darya comes at the hefty price tag of
 5700 UAH/hr

Which is something like $200, on the more expensive side
of escort prices in UA. And for that price, so disappointing if she's
not the real deal haha!

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Shadow on March 01, 2021, 03:01:47 AM
While we have made efforts to ensure his work will remain, unfortunately Sandro is no longer with us.To continue his work one would need his photographic memory, sharp eye and lots of time to spare.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 01, 2021, 05:11:58 AM
Oh, and forgot to report!
Nika/ Darya comes at the hefty price tag of
 5700 UAH/hr

Which is something like $200, on the more expensive side
of escort prices in UA. And for that price, so disappointing if she's
not the real deal haha!


I had a friend who regularly visited Ukraine in search of a wife,and also used prostitutes/escort girls while he was there.
He told me when the hookers turned up they were never the girls in the photo's on the prostitute/escort girl sites.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: iloveukrayinkas on March 01, 2021, 01:40:31 PM
While we have made efforts to ensure his work will remain, unfortunately Sandro is no longer with us.To continue his work one would need his photographic memory, sharp eye and lots of time to spare.

Right, I was told so by Ildavo as well. RIP Sandro.
Believe me there are some of us who also have this photographic memory, and analytical mind this is why I identified one of these girls
Darya from ladadate in the escort site, even with the blur and everything I was able to identify her as also she is one of
those rare beauties with a very peculiar figure type and a mole on one of her tits.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: iloveukrayinkas on March 01, 2021, 01:45:20 PM

I had a friend who regularly visited Ukraine in search of a wife,and also used prostitutes/escort girls while he was there.
He told me when the hookers turned up they were never the girls in the photo's on the prostitute/escort girl sites.

I guess there are DOUBLE DEALERS on the men's side as well! And WHY not!!? lol

Highly unlikely the girl on the photo will show up. They legit photos they are not even facing the camera, cover the face
with their cell phone  or have a mask on.
I'll show you the "specimens" I found while on my research so you can see.
 :P
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: Shadow on March 01, 2021, 01:49:55 PM
Right, I was told so by Ildavo as well. RIP Sandro.
Believe me there are some of us who also have this photographic memory, and analytical mind this is why I identified one of these girls
Darya from ladadate in the escort site, even with the blur and everything I was able to identify her as also she is one of
those rare beauties with a very peculiar figure type and a mole on one of her tits.
I could do it as well, but MrsShadow would not approve :arguing: :zap:
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: 2tallbill on March 29, 2021, 06:03:59 PM
I could do it as well, but MrsShadow would not approve :arguing: :zap:

Mrs 2tall would keeel me as well.
Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: iloveukrayinkas on May 18, 2022, 07:58:43 PM
Sup guys? long time since I posted on this post!
Finally I found one of the women I had been corresponding with in ladadate.com
in one of the escort sites.
I wasn't even surprised when I found her there!
I even spoke to her via telephone while I was still using the site and bought her
contact info years ago.
But now I found her in odessa companions escort site.
This woman always brought up sexual comments in her correspondence or sent me
photos that were semi naked or just over the top.
So disappointed I couldn't read she was a fucking prostitute
at the time! It's pretty obvious now that I look at her photos.   :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash:

But I wouldn't say she is even a DOUBLE DEALER
cuz the time we spoke over the phone everything went well, she spoke to me no rush
for about half an hour but you could see she wasn't even serious about a foreign husband, she
has had a boyfriend even before she signed up for the scammin agency and
then just ghosted me and never spoke to me again.

I think she even cancelled that phone number just to avoid my calls. Her Telegram, same thing,
she left me on read and after a few weeks came back on the site asking why I hadn't got back to
her when she well knew she had ghosted me!

That's not a double dealer but a scammer using the site just to get a commission out of the fees
and gifts men sent her. She was even asking for gifts for Valentine's day when we had NEVER met in
person so I sent her SQUAT. And this was during those months. Perhaps after she was expecting free gifts from me and
didn't receive anything and other SIMPS were simping her she just ditched me! Big WHORE!

Title: Re: DOUBLE DEALERS
Post by: ML on May 19, 2022, 07:07:09 AM
Interesting story.
First time I have ever heard of scammers!!