Driving In Ukraine- Roads,Maps,Navigation

[JayH]

 More guys are driving in Ukraine and I expect a lot more will in the future as conditions improve.I would ask all to contribute to the thread who have experience-either general or of specific roads , road conditions are of particular interest to all who have experienced Ukraine roads.
The best route is not always the shortest and it can be helpful if they are covered.If posting in the thread-- If you can head each post in thread appropriately-- eg  Kiev - Odessa  or    Simferopal-Sevastopol-. That will help people searching for specific information using the search function.

In the following posts-- I have lifted some comments from other threads where they contain relevant information.

[JayH]

Maps & GPS are essential to making it possible to drive safely in Ukraine.
Basically-- I get hard copy map and maps of specific area.
I use computer to check possible routes and anticipated distances and times( google maps,whereis etc)
From this I write route notes eg distances,highway numbers,towns etc . If you have seen how Rally notes are written-- similar but over longer distances!!
The hard copy map in Russian will show you what towns are en route so you can read Russian & Ukrainian signposts-- makes it easy -even if you have zero Russian.
Above all else-- you need a very good GPS. I use a top of the range Garmin which can also be used on foot in cities.
The Garmin EU maps are not as complete for Ukraine as they are for eg Germany-- but it is quite possible to get by with them alone.
I recommend --link  follows
http://www.gpsmap.com.ua/en/
These are excellent-- highly recommended.

Some parts of Ukraine are not well covered by GPS--eg parts of Crimea-- but they are improving all the time( each year!!). It is another reason I like to have hard copy map

[JayH]

Re: Vacation 2014
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2014, 03:21:15 PM »
Quote
Quote from: northkape on January 01, 2014, 10:45:56 AM
Why not rent a car?
Ukraine is a great country for traveling by car, and quite a lot of interesting things to look at.
I always loved it,,, outside the main roads there are lots of small villages with a style of life,,
that somehow reminds me of my youth here at home in the period after the war.

Go with Norwegian directly to Kiev, instead of Baltic with stop over in Riga.
Rent a car at Borispil, and drive along the eastern side of Dnieper to Kremenchug.
Then cross over to the western side, and on to Zap - Melitopol - Simferopol - Sevastopol.
From there you drive the great coastal line all the way to Koktebel and Kerch.
There are numerous very nice places along the Crimean cost where you could rent an apartment for a day or two.
Would especially recommend Novy Sviet, and the walking route outside the mountain with the cave.
Pity, that they have closed the access to the top of the mountain.
Fortress in nearby Sudak is also recommended.
It's a very nice drive from Alushta to Sudak, my favorite of all places in Ukraine.
We never drove all the way to Kerch,, several times in Koktebel, and drove a distance past Feodosiya.
Finding a place to stay for the night was never a problem.

A trip like this would open your eyes to so much more of life in Ukraine, than sitting on a train or in a bus.
I am (almost) sure your wife will object to it, but try persuading her into it, it's really worth it.
An experience never to be forgotten for someone like us, coming from "another world".......

We also drove there all the way from Norway, with the kids, when they were one year old.
Even at winter time for Christmas that same year, when it was snowing like hell,
and we got stuck on a blocked road in the middle of the night, north of Kremenchug.

Through all these years I never met with or saw western tourists driving here by car, south of Kiev.
In the early years, several of the policemen that stopped me, had never seen a car with western plates before.

Those were the years before you could rent a car there.
No GPS at that time, and maps were available in Cyrilic only, and not meant to be used for traveling by car either.
Since those early years, I have been driving by car several thousand kilometers every year, to almost all parts of Ukraine.

If there is an interest for it,, I could make a page with some of my photos from the Crimean coast.
END NK QUOTE
JayH reply in that thread
That was my suggestion also-to rent a car.I would still fly into Simferopal as it is easy drive from there to Kerch--the roads on the Crimea are generally speaking in the best condition in Ukraine. By way of contrast-- some of the "main" roads south of Kiev I rate as the most dangerous with the road conditions presenting a major hazard to promote accidents(or at least incidents).


As NK says-- the coast road from Feodosiya to Yalta  & beyond is spectacular-- often very tight hairpin bends as you climb and fall the along the very rugged coastline.Average speed is  quite slow due to the path of the road--the road surface condition is mostly quite good.As an aside---the World Rally Championship  has been contested in this area-- so you can see videos quite easily- which will give you the idea of how it looks.Along the coast are many places to stay with access to  the water--often at quite reasonable price.
This area was one of the few in Ukraine that was not covered by GPS maps--that may have changed by now and I do not have latest maps available.In this area--phone and internet access is not very good- a result of the height of the mountainous terrain and sparse population.
On the Crimea the general road conditions and layout is quite acceptable standard--in places right up to western EU standard. The average road is not so different to non main roads in Australia. This is due to the historic importance to USSR defence systems  and facilities being located on the Crimea, so much better roads were built-- and the winters are much milder and less severe than further north . It is not to say that all roads are ok-- but the large majority are way better than average in Ukraine.
The big advantage of driving yourself ,particularly in this area,is that you can go many more places that are not easily accessible  by other methods.
Driving in Ukraine does require 110% attention and involvement of the driver at ALL times- not just because of what you do yourself--but every other driver and truck can suddenly be reacting to something as well.

[JayH]

Re: Vacation 2014
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2014, 04:47:33 PM »
Quote
The freedom  and convenience having the car  overrules all other considerations for me. As NK says--if you drive at home and feel competent you should be ok.  From Simpferopal to Kerch is not difficult drive- and traffic is not heavy at all--I would describe it as light with the majority of traffic encountered being local .
From Feodosiya to Koktebel and all the way to Alushta  -- hardly any other traffic is encountered. The road itself dictates low speeds-with many tight corners .Yalta is easy city to drive in-- as is Sevastopol. Driving in the Crimea is the easiest in all of Ukraine-- and the places it allows you to see and visit makes the effort very worthwhile.

[JayH]

Re: Vacation 2014
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2014, 10:09:04 PM »
Quote
ML--NK has his own car that he is driving-from  Norway.
The type of damage to rims and tyres is quite common and is a major reason to keep concentration levels very high. Decent  sized potholes  are common-- holes big enough to swallow a car are also a possibility. Whole sections of road washed away etc are all hazards. Trucks abd buses  are not immune either-- and can present a major issue when they see  holes late. In places -- some roads between cities  are in such bad condition that you drive on the grass( dirt) along side the road for many kms. Average speeds can be quite low-- prudence is much better than haste.Another hazard is when the road literally runs out ahead of you-- at night that is almost an impossibility to see and you find yourself  alongside the road!!  The roads between cities in central Ukraine where NK has been driving between cities are often as I am describing here.
Quite often it is far better idea to take a longer route with better road conditions  and as a result a much easier drive.
I am going to start a thread very soon about driving and road conditions in Ukraine.The idea will be to get guys like NK ( & all others welcome)to add sections he has covered so we can build up a reference thread for those choosing to drive.The Crimea- generally speaking has easily the best condition roads and the least to fear in all of Ukraine. All over Ukraine the actual main roads have improved a lot-- and large sections everywhere seem to have roadworks going on. It is towards the end of winter and after that roads are at their worst each year-- and doing temporary repairs is always ongoing.
As for rental cars with damaged tyres and rims--they will charge you replacement costs. A flat tyre repair or replacement will also be charged to you. They do tend to have a very good look at tyres when you are returning a car-- and so should  you on picking up !!

[JayH]

 Read the comments above you will see specific comments relative to roads on the Crimea- which is relevant to The Naturals likely vacation area.The roads are much better there than in the rest of Ukraine.
In post-NK does say he was travelling to fast for the conditions-- and that is an absoloute prescription for potential disaster- driving to the conditions is essential. The rider here is that  potholes can appear anywhere-- unexpectantly-- but I think the construction of roads and base is better on the Crimea. The area was important historically to Soviet defence system so roads were better made-- and also the winter is less severe and not as prone to damaging the roads to the same extent as further north. The comments I made above( and NK) is general description of Ukraine roads.
Quite often when guys think about driving and ask about roads conditions etc-- comments like we have made here are met with " We have really bad roads at whereversville USA"-- my point is--it is very doubtful that is the case !!

[JayH]

 Odessa-Nikolaev-Kherson
This is  basically a good road-- reasonable in layout and road surface condition.The road is constantly being improved and upgraded-- more divided highway appearing all the time.The general caveats about Ukraine road still applies ,but nothing like what can happen on less used inter city roads. No problem to drive at night on this section-- no hidden surprise here.

[Anotherkiwi]

Although I didn't do any driving myself in Ukraine, I did go by coach from Kyiv to Odessa and return, and by marshrutka from Odessa to Nikolayev, as well as using buses in each city.

Kyiv to Odessa (about 500 km) is motorway pretty well all the way - you can't get lost.  However, the first 150-200 km south of Kyiv is quite bumpy.  The stewardess on the coach warned me about this when serving tea - she recommended strongly that I didn't leave the cup on my tray!  If it's bumpy in a luxury coach, I imagine that it's rather worse in a car.  However, that trip was three and a half years ago, so I hope that at least part of the road has been upgraded by now.

I agree with JayH about Odessa to Nikolayev (I didn't go on to Kherson) - the road is easy driving and appeared to be well-maintained once out of Odessa itself (the eastern end of that city appeared to be rather run-down, and that applies to the streets as well as the buildings).  Apart from that, the bus and tram routes in each city were all on very good roads/streets, although the cobblestones on some of the older streets in Kyiv probably don't do any favours to a car's suspension (or the passengers' teeth  ).

[Daveman]

Excellent thread... along with the info on maps, gps, et al

I've driven east to west, west to east and all through Crimea and the Carpathians.

Yes, roads are definitely in horrible condition once you get away from the large motorways.  Be prepared to utter many expletives while driving, and in some places, especially if you get off the beaten path, you may have to weave through a lunar landscape of potholes you will not believe until you see it.  Also, in outlying areas, watch out for herds of cattle and/or sheep being marched right up the middle of the road.  If you encounter cows, do no screw with them in any way or you may wind up with some damage on your car.  Sit still, don't use the horn and let them pass. 

Transport trucks are required to drive more slowly than cars and you will share the same two-lane roads.  You will constantly pass them or get nowhere quickly. Watch out for cars passing trucks from the opposite direction, big time, and watch for cars behind you to pass two, three, four cars and the truck in front of you.

When driving on two-lane roads and you come into a town, you'll see a white sign as you approach with the name of the township/village.  At that point, the speed limit becomes 60kph.  Do not speed through villages. Seriously, just don't.  At the end of the township you'll see another white sign with the name and a diagonal red line through it.  That ends the slower speed zone. 

When you see cars coming toward you flashing their headlights, that's the signal that there is a speed trap ahead.

You need to step up your aggressive driving skills.  Rarely will someone 'let you in' until you push and make room.  Seriously, if you don't drive more aggressively you probably will not get very far.

If you are driving in summer, you will run across farmers selling fruits and veggies on the side of the road.  Watermelon and roasted corn are very popular.

There are no self-serve fuel stations. It may take a minute or two for him to arrive (unless you reach for the pump yourself)  but the attendant is required to dispense the fuel for you. 

That's all I can think of off the cuff.  It really isn't that difficult and makes travel more interesting, and adds a different perspective, even with the less than stellar road conditions in a few areas.

[calmissile]

Excellent thread... along with the info on maps, gps, et al

I've driven east to west, west to east and all through Crimea and the Carpathians.

Yes, roads are definitely in horrible condition once you get away from the large motorways.  Be prepared to utter many expletives while driving, and in some places, especially if you get off the beaten path, you may have to weave through a lunar landscape of potholes you will not believe until you see it.  Also, in outlying areas, watch out for herds of cattle and/or sheep being marched right up the middle of the road.  If you encounter cows, do no screw with them in any way or you may wind up with some damage on your car.  Sit still, don't use the horn and let them pass. 

Transport trucks are required to drive more slowly than cars and you will share the same two-lane roads.  You will constantly pass them or get nowhere quickly. Watch out for cars passing trucks from the opposite direction, big time, and watch for cars behind you to pass two, three, four cars and the truck in front of you.

When driving on two-lane roads and you come into a town, you'll see a white sign as you approach with the name of the township/village.  At that point, the speed limit becomes 60kph.  Do not speed through villages. Seriously, just don't.  At the end of the township you'll see another white sign with the name and a diagonal red line through it.  That ends the slower speed zone. 

When you see cars coming toward you flashing their headlights, that's the signal that there is a speed trap ahead.

You need to step up your aggressive driving skills.  Rarely will someone 'let you in' until you push and make room.  Seriously, if you don't drive more aggressively you probably will not get very far.

If you are driving in summer, you will run across farmers selling fruits and veggies on the side of the road.  Watermelon and roasted corn are very popular.

There are no self-serve fuel stations. It may take a minute or two for him to arrive (unless you reach for the pump yourself)  but the attendant is required to dispense the fuel for you. 

That's all I can think of off the cuff.  It really isn't that difficult and makes travel more interesting, and adds a different perspective, even with the less than stellar road conditions in a few areas.

Great post Dave,

The only thing I can think of to add is that if you are after dark, you might find the only gas station closed (or so it looks).  Often times the attendant is sound asleep and knocking on the door or window migjht get you service.  Also, sometimes true of some eating places or convenience stores.  Learned this from the taxi driver on my enduro last time.   

[JayH]

Dave that is a great post--you cover a lot of ground  and a road map for the type of questions prospective drivers  should be asking about.
Nit picking-- there are now( I am guessing you drove a few years ago) self-serve stations and roadhouse type stations that sell everything-- some of the newer ones are of 100% quality and standard of modern western Eu . As Dave said-in many places you have to be served.Even when the station appears closed( as in the middle of the night) -- you go and knock and the guy( sometimes girl) will come and attend  to you .
The style of driving I would describe as needing positive decisions-- be decisive-- but make sure you are confident in your judgment . If you have driven in major cities in France,Italy,Spain etc-- you have the general idea-- but double what is needed!!
The mention of the road side stalls brings a smile to my face-- everything from fish just caught,fruit & vegtables are really fresh and good quality.Great flowers at bargain prices. I bought the best cashew nuts you could ever taste at roadside-so cheap  and beatifully fresh on the road from Sevastopol to Yalta .
The roadside sellers can be single person ,kids!! who bring to the road looking for passer by to sell to--or,maybe organised local centre where locals congregate to buy and sell their weekly needs.
Even in the cities--there are markets like this that are there only there one day a week-maybe two.
Another happening that sticks in my mind is the religous processions that meander down the road--often seeming to be in the middle of nowhere!! The etiquette is to pull off the road and stop while it passes. It can be quite a shock to be barrelling down the road to be confronted by a couple of hundred people walking the other way in the middle of the road !!

Added !!    I saw this after I was writing and posted--Doug mentions thes same point about attendants sleeping in station--

Great post Dave,

The only thing I can think of to add is that if you are after dark, you might find the only gas station closed (or so it looks).  Often times the attendant is sound asleep and knocking on the door or window migjht get you service.  Also, sometimes true of some eating places or convenience stores.  Learned this from the taxi driver on my enduro last time.   

[Daveman]

Ah yes, the last time I drove there was 2011.  At that time, I didn't see a self-serve and the other half said there were none - this, of course, after habit kicked in absentmindedly, and I exited the car and began fiddling with the pump (to the sound of shrieking noises originating from within the car.)  One thing is for sure, it sped up the process of Attendant Drift. 

Yes indeed, there are some of the finest cashews available anywhere at some of the roadside stands.  I guess they must be grown locally though I've yet to see a nut plantation anywhere.  Sunflower fields extend beyond the horizon in some areas.

One of my personal favorites that locals sell roadside (or on the beach) is the pastry/pies.  My ultimate favorite is, trying to remember here, I think called "samosi".  I like the peach version. I'm not sure how well known peach cobbler is outside the southern USA, but that is what this tastes like.  It's a ball of peach cobbler...

[JayH]

From UK to Ukraine - by road
Twelve days, seven countries, almost 5000 miles, eight fill ups, and some of Europe's most demanding roads in a Land Rover Discovery 4
From UK to Ukraine - by road
The Discovery 4 conquered everything the Ukraine - and the rest of Europe - had to throw at it
by Mark Tisshaw

The first driving holiday I went on from the driver’s seat was to Cornwall. From Norfolk, in a 1.25-litre Ford Fiesta, this felt like a very long way indeed.

Norfolk to Cornwall is not very far at all though. At least, that is what I’d go back in time and tell myself as I chugged up the M4 armed with tales of my most recent driving holiday: London to Donetsk, in the far east of Ukraine, and back again.

You can probably guess why I went there, but I’ll spare you my punditry here. Besides, the Ukrainian roads and those who use them boast as much drama as any penalty shootout. A good job, then, that my four fellow travellers and I had a Land Rover Discovery as our long-distance companion.

Driving east across western Europe is easy: French, Belgian, Dutch and German motorists seem that bit more clued up on lane and motorway etiquette than us Brits,  and it ensures speedy progress, particularly on the autobahns of Germany.

I expected problems to start in Poland. Well-travelled Autocar chief snapper Stan Papior had a few war stories on Polish roads that threatened to make our estimates of how far we could travel each day optimistic at best.

And a phone call to European editor and Stuttgart resident Greg Kable on what sort of roads to expect east of the German-Polish border made me doubt if we’d ever complete the 2000km from Dresden to Donetsk.

As it happened, we had nothing to fear from Poland. Clearly, a lot of money has been spent on the roads, and made any view that the major Polish roads were anything but fantastic seem a bit prehistoric.

The 400km from Germany to Krakow in the south of Poland is possible in three hours, although the 250km east of Krakow and to the Ukraine border takes at least four hours as the brand-new dual carriageways (complete with electronic signs telling you the temperature of the road) is swapped for brand-new single carriageways because they serve less traffic.

If we’d been pleasantly surprised by Polish roads, we expected the pleasantries to end in the Ukraine. Not so initially. What was noticeable were the cars the locals were driving.

The Fords and VWs that are so common in western Europe are almost non-existent in the Ukraine. Instead, Ladas (both battered wrecks and sparkly new ones), Dacias and three-box Japanese saloons were the most common road occupiers. Oh, and horse and carts.

The hosting of Euro 2012 has clearly brought with it a lot of investment for the Ukrainian road network. Heading east to Kiev across the north of the country is around 50 per cent brand new dual carriageways; the other half being resurfaced single roads. Passing is a doddle on these sections, as the roads are so straight and wide.

But head east of Kiev and a real adventure starts. ‘That’ll do’ is the attitude to roads once you’re on your way out of Kiev heading east to Kharkiv.

Smooth dual carriageways can become mile upon mile of dirt track next to where new roads are being built with no warning; major junctions are a free-for-all as they have no white lines, traffic lights or warning signs; potholes that can swallow a Discovery have a habit of appearing on even the smoothest of roads; and huge tracks have been carved into poorly surfaced asphalt roads by the huge lorries that use them.

The Discovery, predictably, handled everything that Ukrainian roads could throw at it, even when the elements got involved with the frequent lightning storms. This is a car that just works, whether as a workhorse on a Herefordshire farm, in heavy commuter traffic on the M25 or taking five hopelessly optimistic football fans across an entire continent.

The road trip highlight was saved for driving through the centre of Ukraine’s westernmost city, Lviv. Here, trams fight with cars, taxis, pedestrians and cyclists on cobbled streets that drop several feet from one side of the pavement to the other, with several other dips in the middle.

It would have been intimidating in anything other than a Discovery, but the high driving position and boxy shape meant it could be positioned in gaps in the traffic where we could look down on the chaos around us. If ‘that’ll do’ is the unofficial motto of Ukraine’s roads, then the Discovery is the thing to do it in.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/motoring/uk-ukraine-road

[northkape]

I copied this from the 13 years later thread:

In general a lot of the infrastructure in Ukraine, is in worse condition now, than it was when I first came here 13 years ago.

Many roads are now in a condition that makes it almost impossible to use them.
In some places this year, the farmers had made access to their fields, so it was possible to detour in the places where the conditions were at it's worst.
Places like between Krivoy Rig - Nikolaev  /  Zhitomyr - Khmelnitsky  /  Zhitomyr - Vinnitsa

But there are also some glimpses of light in between:
The Northern route from Kiev to Poland through Korosten and then Kovel, more than 500 kilometers, is totally rebuilt and in perfect condition.
And new four lane roads between Kiev - Zhitomyr  /  Kherson - Nikolaev  /  Kharkov - Dniepropetrovsk  /  Kiev - Kharkov soon to be finished.

[jmana]

Although I didn't do any driving myself in Ukraine, I did go by coach from Kyiv to Odessa and return, and by marshrutka from Odessa to Nikolayev, as well as using buses in each city.

Kyiv to Odessa (about 500 km) is motorway pretty well all the way - you can't get lost.  However, the first 150-200 km south of Kyiv is quite bumpy.  The stewardess on the coach warned me about this when serving tea - she recommended strongly that I didn't leave the cup on my tray!  If it's bumpy in a luxury coach, I imagine that it's rather worse in a car.  However, that trip was three and a half years ago, so I hope that at least part of the road has been upgraded by now.

I agree with JayH about Odessa to Nikolayev (I didn't go on to Kherson) - the road is easy driving and appeared to be well-maintained once out of Odessa itself (the eastern end of that city appeared to be rather run-down, and that applies to the streets as well as the buildings).  Apart from that, the bus and tram routes in each city were all on very good roads/streets, although the cobblestones on some of the older streets in Kyiv probably don't do any favours to a car's suspension (or the passengers' teeth  ).

I made that trip from Kyiv to Odessa in a taxi 13 years ago    I spoke no Russian, the driver spoke no English, it was an interesting trip.  I just remember the road being straight as an arrow through what seemed to be endless fields of sunflowers, with the occasional place to pull over where there would be roadside food stands set up serving grilled meats (from who knows what kind of animals).  Oh, and at the bottom of the largest hill was a police station, and the cops would just stand there with machine guns strapped to their backs and radar guns in their hand trying to catch people coming down the hill too fast.  My driver got nailed, and it was a little scary because there was lots of yelling between the driver and the cop.  Finally the driver paid off the cop and we were on our way    And yeah, the road sucked, especially in an ancient Lada with a worn out suspension and a passenger seat that looked like had been through a war.  No seat belt either.  Oh, and the driver reeked of BO and alcohol.  Good times......

[JayH]

The BBC   "Top Gear" show visited Ukraine--prior to Russian invasion of Crimea!!
The whole show has a lot of footage of Ukraine and gives a very good idea of roads etc in Ukraine and Crimea.They drive from Yalta to Belarus and cover a few of the interesting features. The roads they are on are mostly the more major inter-city roads and look to be in reasonable condition at the time of filming!!
Below are a few short clips of their adventure.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01snlsj

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01snn99