What to do when she doesn't want to be with you

[Jet]

I disagree with going there at this time or before your lady expresses an interest in having you there. 

 

I concur wholeheartedly. One thing that you guys who suggest making the trip are not considering, is that right now she doesn't need the extra added stress of babysitting a fully grown infant on top of what she is currently going through (unless I missed a memo along the way and viking is conversationally fluent in Russian and fully capable in an overseas scenario...).

[Rvrwind]

[user=21]KenC[/user][user=21] wrote:

I disagree with going there at this time or before your lady expresses an interest in having you there. 

 

I concur wholeheartedly. One thing that you guys who suggest making the trip are not considering, is that right now she doesn't need the extra added stress of babysitting a fully grown infant on top of what she is currently going through (unless I missed a memo along the way and viking is conversationally fluent in Russian and fully capable in an overseas scenario...).

[/color][/u][/user]Couldn't Agree More!!!

Rando, going there & holding her hand & wiping her tears may work in your own culture when you speak the same language & share the same or similar background. But take from me, that would be the utterly worst thing you could do in this stuation. Unless you are fully competent in Russian & able to do & take care of yourself, don't even consider it. Love or not you will destroy whatever you do have. She doesn't need the extra added burden of you & it is best that she be given time to deal with what has befallen her before she has to deal with you.

BTDT Take it from somebody who knows. As hard as it is, stay away until she is prepared to handle your presence. I cannot stress this enough!!!

RVR-Canadian Cowboy/Agency Owner

[billsetnor]

Viking,

   For the past 5+ years, I have been a volunteer with The Centre For Living With Dying in Santa Clara, California, giving support to people who are dealing with grief in the loss of loved ones.

   When it comes to grief, especially the loss of a child, there is nothing you can do or say to lessen this lady's grief.  It will stay with her for the rest of her life.  The only thing she can do is learn to live with it.  How long it will take her to come back to some sort of normalcy in her life is anyone's guess.  It might take years, if ever.

   At this distance, the best you can do is offer your support, in whatever way she can accept.  I would agree with some of the other guys; you do not want to burden this lady with your presence if she is not in a space to be with you.

   I feel for your situation.  If I can offer additional advice, e-mail me at billsetnor@yahoo.com with your contact info, and we can talk on my dime.

 

Bill

  

[Wise woman]

If she think that you really absolutely are not interested in her and is not able to give her emotional support in difficult situation then it is really end of your relationships.

If you would have placed a post - "My woman is hurt and is in a deep grief. How can I help her?" then, with this attitude, you is able to became even more closer to her and return her. I do not think you really care about thus woman, not about yourself only.

The other possibility is that woman was looking for a better future for her daughter is she would marry you. Now she need not this anymore.

[mischief]

[user=898]Wise woman[/user] wrote:

I do not think you really care about thus woman, not about yourself only.

I think it is not true… if he didn't care about her he wouldn't write here seeking for an advice in the first place… and after communicating with this man I can tell you he cares more than enough and does the best he can to make her days a little bit brighter…

Whether she is interested in him or need him is another question which Viking should figure out for himself… obviously the woman is not motivated any more to keep relationship going… whether it's due to grief or other reasons she is the one who knows… That's why I first advised drastic measures - to go there and be with her … which impossible anyway and might not be wise thing to do but could work…
 
(At least it worked with me- i'm not comparing and well aware of the difference in situations… but ... my husband had to work very hard to "win me over",  since I wasn't that motivated...  six visits within a year to keep me "hooked" ... lots of illogical, crazy moves... had to entirely commit himself physically, emotionally and moneywise.. etc. )...

 
Anyhow, I do hope everything will turn out good for both of them…

[catzenmouse]

I don't agree that viking does not care about the woman and is only  thinking of himself in this. It is a very difficult situation on both  sides of the ocean for them.

If he goes to her it could be exactly what they need to become closer.  It could also be the thing that tears them apart. This is also true if  he does not go to her. In this situation the choices made by each of  them are being made as individuals and not as a couple and the  thoughts/feelings of each of them is probably going through a dozen  different things at the same time. Only they can really figure this out  but (and I am only speaking for myself here) if this had happend with  Elena and I it would be very, very hard for me to stay away for long.  Even with the knowledge that I could push her away I think after a bit  of time I would just go to her. If she did not want to see me then I  would just stay in the city for as long as I could so that if she did  need/want me to be with her then I would be right there.

Ken

[viking]

Ken,

This is one of those 'between a rock and a hard place' as well as 'damned if you do or damned if you dont' situations. I can see the points on either side, and the vacilation in myself.

I have sent her some money to help out a bit. On March 8 her Womans Day Flowers will arrive. Then the next day I plan on making a phone call and listen to what she might have to say. It will have been awhile since we last spoke. Most of you agreed to to just cool it a bit and I have done so. If she is interested, still, I should hear something positive. Perhaps at that time the decision to 'go-no go' will be made. But if not then.....

Many of you seem to feel that a RW appreciates a man who is assertive. Then I should go and be done with it and if she blows me off, well there are bars in SBP. And agencies I could contact to keep me occupied. But to stick around with a broken heart  (I know myself here) would be very very hard. But if she says lets meet and we talk or just keep each other company for awhile it may lead to a better relationship.

If I choose not to go, the only thing I have left is to wait and see what may happen some time in the future. I want this woman, but to wait 3-4-5 months for her to 'come around' just puts my life on hold, which in itself is ok, but if she decides not to re engage (this is the critical issue) it is time I cannot recapture.

So I can make what ever decision I want and it is my decision to control but then I must live with the outcome of that decision. Personally I want to go and force the issue and have some closure, but this goes aganist all the advice I have found here.

So....This roller coaster ride is a mental head trip that only time will prove right or wrong.

Finally, lets not forget that this is her grief. She is the one with the larger issue. My needs should be after hers, and my pain is a mere cut on the finger compared to hers.  If this was meant to be, fate will move it in the right direction. Some how in some way. Its just that fate can be a real pain in the ass.

[catzenmouse]

viking,

 I think you've got the right state of mind going on. No matter  what we here say or think you will have to do what you think is the  right thing and let the chips fall where they may. My heart goes out to  you dude.

Ken

[KenC]

If this was meant to be, fate will move it in the right direction. Some how in some way. Its just that fate can be a real pain in the ass.

Quit wallowing in your self pity and be a man for Christ's sake!  Buck up and give her the time she asked you for.

KenC

[Rvrwind]

Wow KenC, I havn't seen you swing the clue bat like that since the bad old days!!!!:shock:

I gotta say ya' gotta lighten' up some dude. I can feel his pain, I been there done that & it is hard as hell believe me. He's just feeling like he got kicked in the teeth by the woman he was falling for, I can understand that. I also know what she is feeling & that she needs time to heal before she can adequately deal with him. He has to understand that her not wanting to deal with him at this time is not a rejection, but a basic need for self healing. At this point he is feeling rejected outright & that is not what is happening & he needs to focus on that. Time heals all, just give her the time.

RVR-Canadian Cowboy/Agency Owner

[viking]

Gee Ken, tell me how you really feel. Don't hold anything back now.

Have we been having a bad day? I might add your positive statements have a real impact. Tact is not your strong suit is it?

In reply.. I know where your head is at. That is clear. And yes it is about her and her grief. But it takes two to Tango. Her grief impacts my life. And I have only one as do the rest of us. You do not know my personal situation, the rest of the things happening in my life. I choose not to share them here and if you did know, you might not be so testy. I am fully cognizant of the word maudlin. And you need to know about being vitupertive. I would suspect that were times in your life when you were not thinking clearly. That is why I sought out some advice here. That is why I put my words to paper to hear some feedback. That is what this site is for. I consider it healthy to express myself and if you disagree, that is your call. I have meet some true friends here and I appreciate what they had to say. So back off a bit.

[KenC]

Viking,

Unless you're going to die in the next 12 months, your waiting a few months is not a big deal.  It is very insignificant in comparison to what your woman is going through.  It is obvious that you don't have children.

KenC

[viking]

Ken,

I don't know you. But I will be kind here. I have 2 daughters. 14 and 16.

My 16 year old went through major cleft palate surgery at 10 months. Then lost a kidney at 8 years. Fast forward through a host of other medical problems and in 4 months will need significant maxio facially surgery. Her mouth will be wired shut for 6 weeks. Know what that is like for a female teenager?

I usually have the patience of a saint. But don't every try and step into some else's shoes. They may be bigger than you think.

[KenC]

Viking,

Building a relationship is a wonderful happy and positive time of anyone's life.  There is so many positive emotions swirling about that it can be intoxicating.  But one must be in the mood for love.  The furthest oposite from that feeling must be the loss of a child.  I cannot imagine anyone having the mood for love with that burden on their mind.  And I cannot imagine that you as a parent, can't understand it.  When you speak of shoes, why don't you try hers on for a while?

KenC

[mischief]

Well, here is the reason I'll never ask for any advice on forums… whether you write some lines or some pages about your problem - it's impossible to describe entirely any situation with all thoughts and feelings involved… any advice given is still not a guide to action because a person who gives an advice see your problem from his perspective only! …and there will always be people who are too quick to judge or label …

[Turboguy]

Good point Mischief,  I agree with you. 

I dated an American gal who had lost her son.  The son in this case was a little older, 18,  but she had some responsibility in his death.  When I was seeing her it was two years after the accident.   I did not mind and wanted to be supportave but even two years later there were frequant outbursts of tears and times she had to go running from the room.   The details in her case was she had been sick and was on oxygen and smoked and burned down the house with her son in it so anything about a fire would set her off.

If you do end up with your gal expect much the same.  You are going to have to be very patient and understanding for years. 

 

[viking]

Turbo,

I understand and am very willing to deal with this. I guess it is my sympathic nature that got me here in the first place. I'm the type of guy who would book mark the date, make sure there were flowers on the table in the morning, take the day off from work and just be there. It is simply not a problem for me.

[Jet]

any advice given is still not a guide to action because a person who gives an advice see your problem from his perspective only! …and there will always be people who are too quick to judge or label …

 

On the other side of that coin.........sometimes it's a good idea  to see how another person who can give an objective view, looks at your situation. Once in a while you are too close to the problem to think logically, and opinions of others can help you to look at your situation from all sides - not just what you want.

Of course, if you have your mind made up before you ask a question, then all the advice in the world is not going to help you see things more clearly....

[Elen]

And the last thing she needs now is that other people would discuss her tragedy at open internet board

[JPjr]

Viking please, Elen is  right. If your RW allows you to visit, the first thing to do for her would be to cherish the memory of her son as she does. Not with flowers for her, an act of celebration, but a trip  to the cemetary where you would get down on your knees and  to the spirit of the son explain your desire for his mother's happiness and for his approval and aid from the spirit world. This is a doorway into their world and to share a life with this woman, you must enter that door. Mourning is never at end in a woman for their children. She will carry on in time, but she will always return to that place in her heart where she will forever be connected to her son. IMHO,   Joe  PS: of course you or she may not be religious and think not of the afterlife, in which case, would make her mourning totaly about her and is a whole other psycological process

[viking]

Elen, I hear you. But I have been careful not to mention any names and I doubt that she would look here anyway.

But even if she did, there is a lot of sympathy that has been expressed. Which I think is a good thing.

[BC]

viking,

To be quite blunt, I think you are trying to rationalize yourself into a relationship.

It may feel nice to play 'white knight' for a while but in the end such is only ego.

On 22 Feb the unfortunate accident was "several weeks ago" and now is 6 March. I think if my 'significant other' had called and told me what happened, I would have been on the next possible flight out, would have expressed my condolences in person and returned sooner rather than later depending on her interaction.

Reading your posts there are an awful lot of "I's" present..  The most obvious: "I want THIS woman"..

You express very little regarding your relationship with her child..  sorry but this leaves me a bit baffled.

Overall I think a lot of your questions may be answered by evaluating what level relationship you have with this woman on a conservative scale.

[Elen]

You didn't Viking but internet is such small place that a LOT of people know already WHO she is and my replica was not "casual"

[rose]

Hello, everybody!!! This is my first post. I decided to post here because I'm a Russian woman in the late 30s, who has a son. I just imagined what would I feel in such situation.
Viking,
I don't want offend you, but it seems to me that somehow you took all this events putting yourself in the center of it, while I believe the woman, whom you supposely love should be. It's not about you, it's about her. We all have problems and circumstances. We all make our choices. You made already yours by not going to support her right away. I don't think that your letters with information about your favorite football team will be a great help to her. One only can guess what she thinks about now, but the truth is "Friend in need, friemd indeed". If you didn't go there the next day, you'd better leave her alone now for as long as she needs.
It seems to me that you love her, and ready to wait for her, but want to be sure that the time you'll spend for waiting will not be a waste. We have a proverb which can be translated something like this: when somebody wants "To climb on a pinetree, and not to scrach the butt".
Another thing which seems nobody mentioned here: there are big chances that now she'll never leave the Russia, she might want to stay where her daughter is burried.
Sorry.

[BC]

Bit off topic but.. Welcome Rose!