Russian Women Discussion
RWD Discussion Groups => Starting Out => Topic started by: Badabing on May 17, 2012, 07:48:09 AM
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I have been communicating by email with Katya from Belarus for almost 4 months now. The problem I have is that I can barely understand her emails. It seems she is translating into English what she writes in Russian through an electronic/online translator. After reading her messages, some of the sentences don´t make sense at all. Overall I do get the context of her message but it is hard for me to find anything new or exciting in what she writes. It´s always the same ¨look forward to meet with you in person¨and ¨let´s be sincere about each other¨...I just don´t find any passion in what she writes. Something is missing... All she writes about is going to visit her grandparents at the¡r village on weekends...and hating to go back to work on Mondays. She doesn´t ask any questions about my life or how is it where I live or anything like that :( If for some reason I don´t write or reply to her email, she will not take the initiative to email me again or write something on her own.
I have tried to call her several times and my call ends up in her voice mail. In 4 months I haven´t had the chance to talk to her once! I asked her once to videochat on Skype and she said she doesn´t have a computer at home. I can tell she has a feisty personality (which I like) because she told me she didn´t want to go to an Internet Cafe, where all the teenagers hang out, to use Skype and let the whole town find out she is looking for a husband on the Internet :rolleyes:
I told her I was coming to see her by the end of June. She said she will take me to her hometown and introduce me to all her friends and family...yet she will not videochat through Skype with me first. I don´t even know how good her English is or if I will have problems communicating with her. I´m dubious about the trip. I don´t have a plan B. She´s really the only girl I have been writing to in months, but I´m confused. I´m not sure if I should go to visit her without ever talking to her on the phone ! Am I weighing all on the negative here or being to pessimistic ? Any feedback is welcome.
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Seeems to me that if this lady was serious about trying to establish a relationship with you, she would be making more of an effort. Your already planning to go and see her? I would have dropped her for lack of interest on her part. Remember the phrase: "you will know when an FSU woman is interested in you" This lady does not seem all that interested if she isn't even wanting to know anything about you or your life.
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First,
welcome Badabing!
Of all, the most valuable asset needed is patience..
Second don't loose perspective - and at the moment she is not yours, either to keep or leave..
You are just pen pals.. nothing more, nothing less. That will only change when you meet face to face if it gets that far. She seems to realize this.. so should you.
That given, first reflect a bit and posture accordingly.
Women neither here or there just plop in your lap so forget any expectations on either side.
It's way to early to draw a line in the sand.
Obviously she is not using an interpreter.. that might be a good sign.. maybe stick with email and see where it goes.
What common interests do you two have?
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Several points you raised also raises some flags. Too many things point to fat Yuri. You are not going to find much in the way of impassioned emails with a women that doesn't speak your language. That should the least of your concerns. More concerning is the fact you haven't spoken to her on Skype or phone. Avoiding your direct questions, the going straight to voice mail thing and poor excuse for not skyping reeks of nefarious intentions and at best an insincere women and worst you are getting played for a scam.
To many things just don't add up here IMO. If she was sincere and truthful, she would not have gone 4 months without numerous phone calls or a Skype session or two.
There is no relationship here Badabing. As BC stated, you don't have her to drop but, I would recommend if you continue to communicate that you be very measured.
Good Luck
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This lady does not seem all that interested if she isn't even wanting to know anything about you or your life.
Good point Hammer, but I think I probably presented this in a more emotional than factual way. She does show some interest because she has to go to an ¨Internet Club¨ where she rents a computer to write to me. And we do exchange 3 or 4 messages each week. So, there is an effort from her side to keep the communication going on. The problem is the content of her emails...they´re like dull and monotonous. Maybe a conversation in person will be different but I don´t want to put myself in the position of having to go there to find out.
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Badabing,
I would keep looking if I were you. You obviously have some doubt.
IMO you will know when it feels right to you.
Of course take my comments with a grain of salt, as you yourself are the best judge.
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You are just pen pals.. nothing more, nothing less.
What common interests do you two have?
Thank you BC. You´ve made me look at this from another angle which is exactly what I was looking for.
Our common interests are very basic...finding a life partner and being happy. I understand she lives in a different world and culture which I´m sure will make it difficult for her to adapt to the western world. She talks about planting vegetables at her granparents backyard, being a good cook and going to church from being very religious...a few things I´m not. I guess the whole point here is I will only know for sure if she is the right girl in a face to face conversation...as you said, if it ever gets that far.
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You are not going to find much in the way of impassioned emails with a women that doesn't speak your language. That should [be] the least of your concerns. More concerning is the fact you haven't spoken to her on Skype or phone. Avoiding your direct questions, the going straight to voice mail thing and poor excuse for not skyping reeks of nefarious intentions and at best an insincere women and worst you are getting played for a scam.
To many things just don't add up here IMO. If she was sincere and truthful, she would not have gone 4 months without numerous phone calls or a Skype session or two.
There is no relationship here Badabing. As BC stated, you don't have her to drop but, I would recommend if you continue to communicate that you be very measured.
Good Luck
Thank you for your reply Faux Pas. I really doubt she is a scammer but you are right. My main concern is her resistance to have a phone conversation or a Skype session. It puzzles me and simply doesn't add up in my mind.
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Thank you BC. You´ve made me look at this from another angle which is exactly what I was looking for.
Our common interests are very basic...finding a life partner and being happy. I understand she lives in a different world and culture which I´m sure will make it difficult for her to adapt to the western world. She talks about planting vegetables at her granparents backyard, being a good cook and going to church from being very religious...a few things I´m not. I guess the whole point here is I will only know for sure if she is the right girl in a face to face conversation...as you said, if it ever gets that far.
You really should do some serious Google on this woman and the letters she's writing. You might be surprised. Something is not right my friend
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Move on.
She isn't that serious.
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Thank you for your reply Faux Pas. I really doubt she is a scammer but you are right. My main concern is her resistance to have a phone conversation or a Skype session. It puzzles me and simply doesn't add up in my mind.
It's not my intention to pooh pooh on your situation here Bada but, keep this in mind. If she was real, sincere or interested, she would have dropped you by now because you haven't spoken or made enough/serious effort to speak on the phone or Skype. The old adage that if it looks, feels and tastes like shit, it's probably shit :D
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I have been communicating by email with Katya from Belarus for almost 4 months now. The problem I have is that I can barely understand her emails. It seems she is translating into English what she writes in Russian through an electronic/online translator. After reading her messages, some of the sentences don´t make sense at all. Overall I do get the context of her message but it is hard for me to find anything new or exciting in what she writes. It´s always the same ¨look forward to meet with you in person¨and ¨let´s be sincere about each other¨...I just don´t find any passion in what she writes. Something is missing... All she writes about is going to visit her grandparents at the¡r village on weekends...and hating to go back to work on Mondays. She doesn´t ask any questions about my life or how is it where I live or anything like that :( If for some reason I don´t write or reply to her email, she will not take the initiative to email me again or write something on her own.
I have tried to call her several times and my call ends up in her voice mail. In 4 months I haven´t had the chance to talk to her once! I asked her once to videochat on Skype and she said she doesn´t have a computer at home. I can tell she has a feisty personality (which I like) because she told me she didn´t want to go to an Internet Cafe, where all the teenagers hang out, to use Skype and let the whole town find out she is looking for a husband on the Internet :rolleyes:
I told her I was coming to see her by the end of June. She said she will take me to her hometown and introduce me to all her friends and family...yet she will not videochat through Skype with me first. I don´t even know how good her English is or if I will have problems communicating with her. I´m dubious about the trip. I don´t have a plan B. She´s really the only girl I have been writing to in months, but I´m confused. I´m not sure if I should go to visit her without ever talking to her on the phone ! Am I weighing all on the negative here or being to pessimistic ? Any feedback is welcome.
Hi Badabing
Your questions are fair.
This to me seems very much like you are writing letters to someone who is not interested in YOU.
To sum it up for you, If I PM you and tell you I am a hot girl, would you come to visit me based on what I type to you in my messages?
I think you already know the answers to your questions :)
Badaboom
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Why go to the trouble of traveling thousands of miles to confirm that she really isn't into you. There are so many other women that can speak English and are willing to chat on Skype. Why are you making this venture so hard for yourself. Move on and find one that is interested and does capture your interest as well. It is because you were hooked by a photo?
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My main concern is her resistance to have a phone conversation. It puzzles me and simply doesn't add up in my mind.
OK, Badabing, would you pick up the phone if I called you to speak Russian?!
What puzzles me is why would you wish to meet the girl who you are unable to communicate with?
She is not necesserily a scammer, she may be ashamed of her poor English, not to believe in all this online dating thing and you are the first man she is writing to, and be too old fashioned (don't call to the man first, if he is interested he will call or write) and shy. Also , you say "if I don't answer her she doesn't write to ask", I can't understand why wouldn't you answer her ? And how much time do you give her to ask about what happened?
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Yo Badabing, :welcome:
Have you considered asking her to write you a letter in Russian and then you can have it translated here? See if there is anything in there for you?
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Hi Badabing- take the advice of the other members here. Something is definitely not right. There are far too many red flags here.
I have always used Skype as a "first line of defense." In my experience, most women who are sincere will meet with you in Skype. At least, within the first few weeks of correspondence. I would never get on a plane and meet someone I have never seen on Skype. Just seems far too risky.
There are some good ones out there, but it is your job to find them. Just be patient and don't forget to "think with your big head."
Good luck.
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Seriously, guys, when I met my future husband I wrote good English but I was out of speaking practice and I was trying to avoid phone conversations as I was afraid that I would not be able to support a nice conversation or understand him and he would be dissapointed and run away. :D
Also that would be a good idea to discuss the time of a phone call and not just call when it's convenient for you, by the way, do you know ther is time difference? ;D
Why don't you just write a note to her(in a polite way) and share your concerns about coming to a different country to meet the girl you haven't even been able to hear or know for sure what she looks like. If she is interested in you and just being shy she would understand you.
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I think the difficult component in these types of instances aren't so much keyed as to whether or not the gal is interested, whether she's real, whether she shampoos her hair twice a week, or whether she's feeling fresh all day long..
More times than not, the problem lies in men. The most difficult component is recognizing and accepting what they are.
Why would you plan a trip to visit a woman you have yet a good reason to do so. Why would you pursue a woman, who after 4 months of emailing each other, you literally still haven't any degree of certainly of understanding her ~ *having an idea* hardly justifies the pending action you're about to do. Why would any man want to be with a woman who feels 'embarrassment' in her effort to communicate with her potential 'husband'. For any person, man or woman, who have any feeling of embarrassment for the process should NOT be IN the process. What does this say about 'YOU'?
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Seriously, guys, when I met my future husband I wrote good English but I was out of speaking practice and I was trying to avoid phone conversations as I was afraid that I would not be able to support a nice conversation or understand him and he would be dissapointed and run away. :D
Also that would be a good idea to discuss the time of a phone call and not just call when it's convenient for you, by the way, do you know ther is time difference? ;D
Why don't you just write a note to her(in a polite way) and share your concerns about coming to a different country to meet the girl you haven't even been able to hear or know for sure what she looks like. If she is interested in you and just being shy she would understand you.
Okay, so how long after your first communication until you felt comfortable enough to Skype or phone? 4 months? Would you seriously have waited for 4 months or more before some sort of interacting communication?
If that were the only flag raised by Badabing's story, it would be understandable but, coupled with the others, it really reeks of a scammer and not a very good one.
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Here is the truth....
OK, Badabing, would you pick up the phone if I called you to speak Russian?!
What puzzles me is why would you wish to meet the girl who you are unable to communicate with?
She is not necesserily a scammer, she may be ashamed of her poor English, not to believe in all this online dating thing and you are the first man she is writing to, and be too old fashioned (don't call to the man first, if he is interested he will call or write) and shy. Also , you say "if I don't answer her she doesn't write to ask", I can't understand why wouldn't you answer her ? And how much time do you give her to ask about what happened?
... and here's the only decent idea in this thread so far:
Yo Badabing, :welcome:
Have you considered asking her to write you a letter in Russian and then you can have it translated here? See if there is anything in there for you?
I think the lady is not stroking the OP's ego enough or asking the right questions IN ENGLISH so Muzh's suggestion is one way to find out FOR SURE if she's interested or interesting.
I'm not trying to talk the OP into a relationship but he chose to correspond with someone who has poor English so he should be expecting anyway to at least wear some of the burden of translation.
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Well, I am not sure I would be impressed if my personal letter would be posted on a public forum.
My advice would be to persuade her to have a skype video call at least to wave to each other and go from there.
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I'd have a tendency to agree with you Kuna, but it sounded as if he has tried to pursued her to skype or answer the telephone with no luck.
Communication is alpha omega and if there is such a language/communications barrier at this stage IMO better to throw in the towel.
However as I said earlier all the advice from us armchair quarterbacks have to be taken with a grain of salt, he is obviously the best one to make the decision.
Our job is to spark different angles right?
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Well, I am not sure I would be impressed if my personal letter would be posted on a public forum.
That would be very tacky, so no, I did not suggested that. ::)
He can find a very competent translator and keep it personal.
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Move on.
She isn't that serious.
+ 1
Move on to Ukraine.
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+ 1
Move on to Ukraine.
While I still think Ukraine is a better pond to fish from in this endeavor, things like this can happen there as well.
You read the Commandments, comb through the forums, ask for advice, filter the response and then you switch on your own Spidey-sense and tweak it as you go.
Several of us seem to think the odds are pretty apparent. While she may well be some demure little Russian wildflower, she's not playing the game effectively if she isn't willing to communicate after dancing around the floor for four months.
The OP wanted some opinions, he got them.
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I started to email Katya in Russian (using Google translator) some months ago. I was also taking some Russian lessons on my own and did manage to learn the cyrillic alphabet so that I could at least read some words and names. I figured, if my future wife´s native language is going to be Russian, I better start learning it sooner than later. After a few emails she switched back to English, I don´t remember exactly why. I guess I forgot to translate one of my messages into Russian and her reply came back in English. I did notice a little more sense in her emails when she wrote in Russian. At least she was more open to express herself and maybe this is what I should push for now but if her English is as good as my Russian...is there any future to this ¨relationship¨?
Vasilisa, thank you for your feedback. It´s good to see a woman´s point of view here as well. And I agree with what you say. She´s probably timid to have a conversation in English just as much as I would be reluctant to have a conversation in Russian. I am aware of the time difference (+7 hrs for me) and I did tell her that I wanted to call her in a moment that would be comfortable for her to talk. So we agreed that between 9:00pm and 11:00pm (her time) would be a good time to talk, but she never answered my calls. I have ruled out her being a scammer. Last year I ran into one and I think I perfectly know the way they approach their victims. I told this to Katya in one of my emails and she also told me something bad that happened to her online that I am not going to discuss here.
On the other hand I also agree with what the guys are saying. Why should I jump with both feet into something I am not 100% comfortable with ?It´s true I may know the answers to all my questions but I am also confused because the details of all this online dating are not as simple as it looks.
I think I will follow Vasilisa´s advice and try once more to Skype with her and see what she says.
Hammer, you asked if I was hooked by a photo, and the truth is that I was. I have to admit Katya is freakin´ beautiful. Platinum blonde with blue eyes. She is not a scammer ! She has sent me plenty of photos of her and I have surfed all the internet and vk.com looking for these photos. I am 95% certain she is not a scammer.
I guess some of you have put it as simple as it is here and I truly appreciate it, but within the confines of my mind, all the emotions and thoughts mixed together make it quite complicated.
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Her sentences are hard to understand: she uses Promt to translate things.
She wants to show you to her friends and family : She is interested in you as marriage material.
Contrary to some, I do believe she is genuine. If you call her be sure it is evening time for her, even if that means its in the middle of the night for you.
And yes, internet in small town can still be difficult so she may not be able to use Skype and webcam yet.
Be patient, its almost June. Go see her, and hope when face-to-face you can communicate.
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Badabing,
:welcome: (you may want to introduce yourself in the Intro section of RWD)
You have invested time with this woman and you feel she is sincere. Rather than walk away now, do a 3-way phone call with her in which you hire an interpreter to make the call. You can talk for about an hour for $50. In that hour you can learn much.
I have two cautions for you:
1. Her conversational English is probably very weak. If so, I hope you have a lot of time because developing a relationship with someone who knows little English is difficult. You will need to pay for her to take English lessons. It could take a couple of years. Search the archives for threads about this issue.
2. You seem smitten by her beauty. Yes, RW can be very beautiful. Nevertheless, there must be more, much more. Before taking a trip to meet just one woman, you should have good feelings about comaptibility, goals, values, etc. Do not fall in love with a photograph. Have you read the 10 commandments and other guidelines?
BTW, how did you meet this woman? When do you plan to take a trip?
Good luck, and again :welcome:
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Badabing, I believe you when you say she is real. She may not be answering her phone because she knows that she will not be able to communicate with you. I think Gator's suggestion of doing a 3-way call is a good one. If you can find someone willing to do this for you ( I know there are some commercial members here who can do it), then you can suggest this to her as well. If she still refuses, then you will have your answer as far as her true interest in you. Skyping will not solve your dilemma other than to prove that you cannot communicate due to language differences unless you had a 3rd party to translate.
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if she's a scammer, i fail to see the scam. she never asked you for money, right?
she obviously doesn't speak english, and it appears likely that she's using a machine translator, so she's probably self-conscious about her english. and since you don't speak russian, how do you see that phone conversation going???
muzh is right... have her email you only in russian... then you can handle the translations (hired or machine).
she only responds to you first... so what? ever heard of the old fashioned concept that the girl doesn't call the guy?. goes to church sometimes... that sets her apart from 95% of the RW population IME. another plus in.her favor.
count me among vasalisa and kuna and the minority opinion here. i met my wife with probably 1 prior phone call (i was with a translator), since my russian and her english weren't up to phone conversational levels. no big deal.
sounds, though, like she isn't stroking your ego enough for your liking... it would be interesting to know her view of how inspiring your correspondence is. who knows?
good luck!
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I agree with you Shadow.
Gator / Hammer, I think the 3 way call is a great idea. How do I do this? She tells me her English is good so she may put some resistance to do this but at the same time will clear all doubts.
I met her on elenasmodels.com. I am planning to arrive Minsk on June XXth; that day is her birthday. I haven't bought the ticket or even got the visa yet due to these doubts I have, but the 3-way call sounds reasonable and may help her loosen up. I guess once we meet in person, if communication continues to be an issue, I will have even more questions and concerns. This is like a never ending story...
Traveler, she never asked me for money. I can tell she is very proud. I offered her to pay for her taxi from Gomel to Minsk (when she comes to meet me at the airport) and she said she would pay for it. "She obviously speaks no English"... yet she says she does, another display of pride.
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Gator / Hammer, I think the 3 way call is a great idea. How do I do this?
Elena Henrickson elen@cmspan.net
She lives in Oregon. I used her many times over several years. Be sure to tell Elena about all your concerns before you call. Elena will give you her opinion after the call. Her opinion after participating in a call will be more reliable than what the rest of us can say.
She tells me her English is good so she may put some resistance to do this but at the same time will clear all doubts.
You will soon know her English level. It is odd that she has no computer or a friend with a computer. Yes, doing Skype in front of teenagers at an Internet Cafe would be like having phone sex with an interpreter.
BTW, if she says she has no phone.......that is a big red flag.
I met her on elenasmodels.com. I am planning to arrive Minsk on June 29th; that
day is her birthday. I haven't bought the ticket or even got the visa yet due to
these doubts I have, but the 3-way call sounds reasonable and may help her
loosen up. I guess once we meet in person, if communication continues to be an
issue, I will have even more questions and concerns. This is like a never ending
story...
If she is inviting you for her birthday, that is a huge positive factor. BTW, delete the B-day from your posts. There are lurkers who enjoy making trouble.
Maybe she is a member of the local mafia and is attracted to you because you resemble Al Capone. :)
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One lady's posted in this thread so far - listen to her.
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Alot of times the lady will say she doesn't speak English even when her English might be fair. This could be why she says this. My girl Lena said her English isn't so good (she still says this) but when we first started Skyping, I was quite surprised by how good it really was. The point is you are going to have have communication issues even if you go to see her. You should make some plans to have a translator available for you if you are still planning on going.
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Yes, doing Skype in front of teenagers at an Internet Cafe would be like having phone sex with an interpreter.
ROFL....!!! Not speaking from experience I should hope?
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Actually, I was the one who asked her when was her birthday and planned the trip to arrive Minsk on this day. I was expecting her to ask me in return when was my birthday... she never did. I'm wondering if this is a cultural thing where the male has to assume the dominant role of asking questions and expect no questions back from the woman.
She does have a phone / number. She sent it to me a couple of months ago on an email but I tried to call her several time with no success.
I think Vasilisa made a good point when she said she's being shy and uncomfortable to have a conversation.
I will contact Elena once Katya approves the call (thanks for the contact Gator). I will have to be very subtle in the way I tell Katya about this.
In the back of her mind she knows everything will change when we meet. She wrote this to me today:
"I hope, that we can be each person of dream of others the party and mainly inside. But we can make only it in the person, I think."
I can tell she is an intelligent woman but the translation messes up the true meaning of her words...and this is what's so frustrating! I'd really like to know how she's reading in Russian what I write to her in English. Maybe it makes no sense to her either.
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I can tell she is an intelligent woman but the translation messes up the true meaning of her words...and this is what's so frustrating! I'd really like to know how she's reading in Russian what I write to her in English. Maybe it makes no sense to her either.
I know exactly what you mean here! It's incredibly frustrating to see a nice long letter, fully of happy exclamation marks, then you turn on Google, or Promt, or another on-line translator and...huh????? What on earth?
One suggestion I found incredibly useful was to write my letter in English, translate it to Russian, then translate back to English...and keep making little changes until, as far as I could tell, what was going out in Russian was exactly what I had written in English (well, as close as I could get, anyway). This resulted in one lady saying that my Russian was obviously fluent! :clapping: :ROFL:
Machine translation can only do so much - this is why this forum is so good. There are so many Russian speakers that anything curly can easily be translated by several of the members, even if they may disagree slightly on a literal or figurative interpretation.
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Actually, I was the one who asked her when was her birthday and planned the trip to arrive Minsk on this day. I was expecting her to ask me in return when was my birthday... she never did. I'm wondering if this is a cultural thing where the male has to assume the dominant role of asking questions and expect no questions back from the woman.
Just to be clear Bada, I am not calling or declaring this woman a scammer but, you have a number of flags that just don't go away, in fact, it piles on with more information you provide. No, it isn't about a dominant role. She should be or actually is, as curious about you as you are her. If she isn't, she's not paying attention to you.
She does have a phone / number. She sent it to me a couple of months ago on an email but I tried to call her several time with no success.
Why the lack of success? It's not that difficult. We're talking about punching in numbers, she answers. Even if you can't communicate, you can hear each others voice. This opens other doors. Calling Belarus can be a challenge for the beginner. Have the number, check out RWD and other places on the net to insure you are dialing correctly
I think Vasilisa made a good point when she said she's being shy and uncomfortable to have a conversation.
Sure she is. But, if she is interested in you as a man and possible romantic interest shy and uncomfortable dissipates real quick. We're talking 4 months here. Are you prepared for another 4 months of the same?
I will contact Elena once Katya approves the call (thanks for the contact Gator). I will have to be very subtle in the way I tell Katya about this.
Forget subtle. Contact Elena and have her call her for a conversation and setting up the very earliest all 3 can have a 3-way call. Not next week or month, like tomorrow.
In the back of her mind she knows everything will change when we meet. She wrote this to me today:
"I hope, that we can be each person of dream of others the party and mainly inside. But we can make only it in the person, I think."
Chances are they will change and if they do, the outcome likely isn't good for you. You know next to nothing about each other.
I can tell she is an intelligent woman but the translation messes up the true meaning of her words...and this is what's so frustrating! I'd really like to know how she's reading in Russian what I write to her in English. Maybe it makes no sense to her either.
You really can't tell anything. You can't and haven't communicated with her at all. You've made contact. Call the interp Elena and have her call at once, set up a 3 way. Get these questions you've ask here, answered at once. The time is now.
:D Good luck guy
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There is a big difference between a woman not being worth further effort or serious material and being a scammer.
Other than a couple of people mentioning in passing that since there has been no voice call she could even be a "fat Yuri" I don't recall scammer being mentioned.
Always gone to visit grandparents on weekends, phone-calls straight to voicemail, refusal to Skype, etc.. these situations simply don't bode well when they occur after four months with a woman who was supposedly interested in marrying a non-Russian.
Best of Luck to you!
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I have been communicating by email with Katya from Belarus for almost 4 months now. The problem I have is that I can barely understand her emails. It seems she is translating into English what she writes in Russian through an electronic/online translator. After reading her messages, some of the sentences don´t make sense at all. Overall I do get the context of her message but it is hard for me to find anything new or exciting in what she writes. It´s always the same ¨look forward to meet with you in person¨and ¨let´s be sincere about each other¨...I just don´t find any passion in what she writes. Something is missing... All she writes about is going to visit her grandparents at the¡r village on weekends...and hating to go back to work on Mondays. She doesn´t ask any questions about my life or how is it where I live or anything like that :( If for some reason I don´t write or reply to her email, she will not take the initiative to email me again or write something on her own.
I have tried to call her several times and my call ends up in her voice mail. In 4 months I haven´t had the chance to talk to her once! I asked her once to videochat on Skype and she said she doesn´t have a computer at home. I can tell she has a feisty personality (which I like) because she told me she didn´t want to go to an Internet Cafe, where all the teenagers hang out, to use Skype and let the whole town find out she is looking for a husband on the Internet :rolleyes:
I told her I was coming to see her by the end of June. She said she will take me to her hometown and introduce me to all her friends and family...yet she will not videochat through Skype with me first. I don´t even know how good her English is or if I will have problems communicating with her. I´m dubious about the trip. I don´t have a plan B. She´s really the only girl I have been writing to in months, but I´m confused. I´m not sure if I should go to visit her without ever talking to her on the phone ! Am I weighing all on the negative here or being to pessimistic ? Any feedback is welcome.
Lose all this "keep her or leave her" stuff. She's not your girlfriend until you put your pinkstick in her.
I'd keep her phone number for when I was infiltrated to the FSU, but move on to other women with better English and more willingness to communicate. Good luck.
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I just don´t find any passion in what she writes. Something is missing... FLAG
She doesn´t ask any questions about my life or how is it where I live or anything like that :( FLAG
I have tried to call her several times and my call ends up in her voice mail. FLAG
...yet she will not videochat through Skype with me first. FLAG
I don´t even know how good her English is or if I will have problems communicating with her. FLAG
I´m not sure if I should go to visit her without ever talking to her on the phone ! FLAG
These are what are the obvious Red Flags that I can see.
Badabing, you should keep this in perspective.
You have NOT ONCE spoken to or seen who you are exchanging letters with. In 120+ days, you have yet to hear or see her live.
If she take no initiative now to communicate with you, to learn about you, to even ask how you are, What is it about you that will magically change that about her and suddenly make her interested?
Keep in mind, that in 4 months, you still can not confirm that this person is male or female. :o
Next
She does show some interest because she has to go to an ¨Internet Club¨ where she rents a computer to write to me. And we do exchange 3 or 4 messages each week. So, there is an effort from her side to keep the communication going on.
Is there really? Did you not just say that she is on Elena'a models as a ...(for lack of a better term ) Bride? So, do you honestly beleive you are the only person writing her? Do you think she is writing only you? how much effort can it really be to write 3 letters a week to you...
I really doubt she is a scammer but you are right. My main concern is her resistance to have a phone conversation or a Skype session. It puzzles me and simply doesn't add up in my mind.
It makes no matter if she is or isn't, does it?
It does add up, to a red flag.
Like Gator said : Do not fall in love with a photo! Really.
In 4 months you have 0 (zero) face time or ear time. ? @! :wallbash:
I can't say it better than the honorable Faux Paux,
"The old adage that if it looks, feels and tastes like shit, it's probably shit "
Where I came from it was a duck, but the quack is the same...
Vasalisa said,
What puzzles me is why would you wish to meet the girl who you are unable to communicate with?
If you can't make heads or tails of her letters, how do you think it will be after a year or two of marriage?
:popcorn: <silence and the sound of cricket bows>
You are filling in too many of the blanks yourself with fantasies. That is not good.
GQBlues :
Why would any man want to be with a woman who feels 'embarrassment' in her effort to communicate with her potential 'husband'. For any person, man or woman, who have any feeling of embarrassment for the process should NOT be IN the process. What does this say about 'YOU'?
Like I said before, you are filling in the blanks yourself.
Don't do that, It only builds unrealistic expectations.
Vasilisa:
My advice would be to persuade her to have a skype video call at least to wave to each other and go from there.
LOL
Exactly.
Hi Vasi
(http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/userpics/12075/catwave.gif)
Whoa Dude!
I figured, if my future wife´s native language is going to be Russian, I better start learning it sooner than later.
Your what? Future Wife?
So in your mind, you have already married, live in a nice little house with a white picket fence and it's all a very quaint little life.
so, how dare she spoil that by not doing everything you have imagined! ..that bitch!
Honestly Badabing
You have this unrealistic expectaton already. With a photo and some words.
I remember when it was easy to do that with an issue of pethouse magazine...
Of course I was 15 at the time.
Dear Penthouse Fourm...
So your question? Keep her or leave her?
How much is this costing you $$$ wise?
just out of curiosity.
Hammer, you asked if I was hooked by a photo, and the truth is that I was. I have to admit Katya is freakin´ beautiful. Platinum blonde with blue eyes. She is not a scammer ! She has sent me plenty of photos of her and I have surfed all the internet and vk.com looking for these photos. I am 95% certain she is not a scammer.
I guess some of you have put it as simple as it is here and I truly appreciate it, but within the confines of my mind, all the emotions and thoughts mixed together make it quite complicated.
I swear, why does it seem like these fanatasies are like crack to some guys?
(http://forums.projectcovo.com/images/smilies/wtf.png)
Yes, your mind is making it complicated for you, because you want it to be real. But it is in your mind.
So I think nothing that we say here will help you see what you do not want to see.
Just be sure to keep us updated on what becomes of all of this.
I would be happy to eat crow..
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Lose all this "keep her or leave her" stuff. She's not your girlfriend until you put your pinkstick in her.
I'd keep her phone number for when I was infiltrated to the FSU, but move on to other women with better English and more willingness to communicate. Good luck.
+1
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There is a big difference between a woman not being worth further effort or serious material and being a scammer.
Other than a couple of people mentioning in passing that since there has been no voice call she could even be a "fat Yuri" I don't recall scammer being mentioned.
Always gone to visit grandparents on weekends, phone-calls straight to voicemail, refusal to Skype. these situations simply don't bode well when they occur after four months with a woman who was supposedly interested in marrying a non-Russian.
Best of Luck to you!
Yeah, but she's gorgeous! :P :-X Besides, who knows., maybe someone at home won't be too excited about a man calling, you know.
I digress.
Yes, maybe she's shy due to language difficulties. Heck, so shy in fact, she may even need an interpreter recommendation someday during her wedding. If so, let us know we'll be happy to give more interpreter recommendations. But, it's only been 4 months for these guys ferchrissakes.
So many things can be happening here.....like, like...nah. I doubt it...or on second thought maybe not.
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Actually, I was the one who asked her when was her birthday and planned the trip to arrive Minsk on this day. I was expecting her to ask me in return when was my birthday... she never did. I'm wondering if this is a cultural thing where the male has to assume the dominant role of asking questions and expect no questions back from the woman.
Your birthday is the last thing FSUW wants to know about you. There are much more important things to be clarified. Your attitude to kids, your interests in life, how you spend free time, why you're single, your humor sense, did you love somebody ever and so on. She will be deeply interesting who are you when starts to feel affection. Right now you're just a stranger for her. And yes, it takes efforts to win women's affection from a non-desperate one.
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Lose all this "keep her or leave her" stuff. She's not your girlfriend until you put your pinkstick in her.
That's a pretty crude way of putting it.. aside from the fact that this measure is hardly indickative [sic] of exclusive relationship status.
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Forget subtle. Contact Elena and have her call her for a conversation and setting up the very earliest all 3 can have a 3-way call. Not next week or month, like tomorrow.
You really can't tell anything. You can't and haven't communicated with her at all. You've made contact. Call the interp Elena and have her call at once, set up a 3 way. Get these questions you've ask here, answered at once. The time is now.
Listen to FP. Take charge. Make decisions. A man who does this is referred to by FSUW as a "strong man." Guess what? FSUW want a strong man. Not a brute but a man who knows what to do and does it.
FSUW do not want a "man child." Life in the FSU is not as easy as life in the West. Many obstacles. Many bad guys. Less opportunities. A strong man is needed to thrive in such a difficult environment. Besides, if you marry a FSUW, you will need to guide her when she arrives in a strange land. She knows that.
So do it.
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Actually, I was the one who asked her when was her birthday and planned the trip to arrive Minsk on this day. I was expecting her to ask me in return when was my birthday... she never did. I'm wondering if this is a cultural thing where the male has to assume the dominant role of asking questions and expect no questions back from the woman.
So you are planning on inviting yourself to her birthday? Does she know about it? Since you have never met if I were her I would not be happy if some penpal decidied to arrive on my birthday.
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So you are planning on inviting yourself to her birthday? Does she know about it? Since you have never met if I were her I would not be happy if some penpal decidied to arrive on my birthday.
Agree 100%. Celebrations of birthdays in the FSU are major events, usually done with family. That is why I said it was a very positive factor if she invited you for her birthday. Bring a special gift, not just yourself.
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Badabing, I'm sorry but I have to ask you.
What is your age gap?
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Your birthday is the last thing FSUW wants to know about you....
Not really. I'm afraid that you have been unfortunate enough as to encounter only impolite female subjects :(
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Guys, excuse my ignorance, but what in the world is a Fat Yuri?
Don´t make a big fuzz out of the birthday thing. I will probably postpone the trip to a better time for me. I need to pop a bunch of flags first.
Muzh, age gap is 10 years.
Guys, let me be clear on this, I´m living no fantasy or waiting for the stars to align. I really need to have a phone conversation with Katya before I move on. I will use the translator and make a decision from her take.
The fact is that if it´s going to take a translator to get this relationship started and developed, I´m gonna have to call it quits. I have never been married but I´m sure that if there´s something my future ex-wife needs to have is a decent level of communication with me, or the relationship will not work from the beginning. I will not move on unless I see some reciprocity from her to open more communication ways between us before we meet. All of your comments have influenced my decision.
Thanks again. I´ll keep you posted.
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The fact is that if it´s going to take a translator to get this relationship started and developed, I´m gonna have to call it quits. I have never been married but I´m sure that if there´s something my future ex-wife needs to have is a decent level of communication with me, or the relationship will not work from the beginning. I will not move on unless I see some reciprocity from her to open more communication ways between us before we meet. All of your comments have influenced my decision.
THAT is a very wise move.
Badabing, don't give up and good luck.
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Guys, excuse my ignorance, but what in the world is a Fat Yuri?
The fact is that if it´s going to take a translator to get this relationship started and developed, I´m gonna have to call it quits. I have never been married but I´m sure that if there´s something my future ex-wife needs to have is a decent level of communication with me, or the relationship will not work from the beginning. I will not move on unless I see some reciprocity from her to open more communication ways between us before we meet. All of your comments have influenced my decision.
Fat Yuri is some guy in the FSU that is play pretending to be a hot young girl (in most instances) mostly through emails to con you into sending him money. Some are very good at the deception and some, not so good. Never send money to someone your haven't met and never fall in lust love with a photo. Yuri likely has 100 photos of every image he uses. Scam operations. One modis operandi for Yuri's is to avoid phone/skype and keep the man on the hook through email. Many times some Yuri's will have a phone number to call but still no contact with your intended.
There are pages and pages of communication issues in the archives if you are compelled to search. Quite a few men have married women who couldn't speak a lick of a common language. Some women get motivated to learn english when meeting a man. Some women before meeting, some women never try. You have lots to process here and determine if you are barking up a tree to suit you.
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Not really. I'm afraid that you have been unfortunate enough as to encounter only impolite female subjects :(
I always thought, I was fortunate enough to date sincere females. Though I acknowledge they may be impolite but it's the last thing I worried about :)
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I started to email Katya in Russian (using Google translator) some months ago.
She switched to English because she found that it would be easier for you to understand her English as for her to understand your Russian.
You mentioned that it is simetimes hard to understand some sentences, which I believe to be caused by using an online translating software. The thing is that using Google translate is possible if you have knowledge of foreign languages. If not, your letters probably were plain gibberish to her.
She most likely has the same fears as you. How can you build any relationship if you can not communicate. And as communicating is easiest face-to-face, the real test will be a meeting.
Calling before that is a good thing, but do not expect a lot from it. Listen to her voice, check if she is nervous. She will be searching for words, even in her native language.
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Badabing,
Sounds like you have a stable outlook.
Best of luck to you!
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Badabing,
No way this is Fat Yuri. Fat Yuri wants you to fall in love with the fantasy that he is creating. So much in love that you will sens $$$ for air tickets to visit you.
Fat Yuri will construct beautiful tender letters that slowly rope you into his fantasy and scam. Fat Yuri does not use Google translate.
Not only does Fat Yuri make some money, Fat Yuri is thoroughly amused by the stupidity of the man. Due to Skype and information resources such as RWD, Fat Yuri is not as successful as 10 years ago.
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Though I acknowledge they may be impolite but it's the last thing I worried about :)
If impoliteness does not bother you, I can understand why you are attracted to RW. :D
Just a joke ladies. None of you are impolite. Forward, yes. Impolite, no. You perhaps even say "Thank You" occasionally. :D
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Definition of FAT YURI (from the RWD Glossary in our RWDpedia: http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/mwiki/index.php/RWD_Glossary):
Dubious owner/admin of dubious MOB site/agency, whose objective is to make a lot of money from his unsuspecting customers. His activities include, but are not limited to, any of the following:
- hiring help to write fake FSUW letters
- writing fake FSUW letters himself, when no other help is available
- stealing women's profiles/photos from other sites (of any type)
- arranging fake phone calls to/from FSUW, which are actually done by his staff/helpers/himself (he is said to exhibit a high-pitched voice, when necessary)
- arranging encounters with gorgeous FSUW who never show up due to unforeseen/unavoidable impediments
- renting to foreign visitors apartments in Chernobyl-like environments
- running a translation service staffed by illiterates
- offering interpreters who know only enough English to tell you that YOUR English has too strong a regional accent for their comprehension
- offering a limousine service based on a fleet of Zhigulis and Trabants
-arranging Events where attending FSUW are hookers or pensioners (best-case scenario), or possess both qualifications simultaneously (worst-case scenario)
All the above for a substantial fee, of course (how else could he keep himself fat ?). ;)
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That's a pretty crude way of putting it.. aside from the fact that this measure is hardly indickative [sic] of exclusive relationship status.
. Marriage is not exclusive either. A ring on her finger just means someone loves her. In the main, there's no reason for the OP to fret over meaningless correspondence.
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Marriage is pretty exclusive, far more so than a sexual encounter.
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. Marriage is not exclusive either.
It is.
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IMO the chances of Katya being a Fat Yuri are pretty... slim.
She's not your girlfriend until you put your pinkstick in her.
I had sex with women who never became my girlfriends. I don't know how it is in the FSU but nowadays sex doesn't obligate most women to establish a formal relationship.
I'd keep her phone number for when I was infiltrated to the FSU, but move on to other women with better English and more willingness to communicate. Good luck.
Totally agree, thanks !
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Marriage is pretty exclusive, far more so than a sexual encounter.
Ideally, yes, marriage is exclusive, but adultery happens in some cases.
In the main, the ring means nothing. What matters is in the hearts and minds of the husband and wife.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6Sm_YjHMHQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6Sm_YjHMHQ)
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IMO the chances of Katya being a Fat Yuri are pretty... slim.
I had sex with women who never became my girlfriends. I don't know how it is in the FSU but nowadays sex doesn't obligate most women to establish a formal relationship.
Totally agree, thanks !
I'm not saying that sex makes her your de facto girlfriend, but rather, please have some perspective about how insignificant this person you are emailing really is. I wouldn't waste my time on her. That's all that is.
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The fact is that if it´s going to take a translator to get this relationship started and developed, I´m gonna have to call it quits. I have never been married but I´m sure that if there´s something my future ex-wife needs to have is a decent level of communication with me, or the relationship will not work from the beginning. I will not move on unless I see some reciprocity from her to open more communication ways between us before we meet. All of your comments have influenced my decision.
Thanks again. I´ll keep you posted.
It was foolish of you to start communicating with someone in the first place who had poor English to start with if you didn't have the patience to allow things to develop.
btw... patience is one thing you'll need a lot of even if a woman speaks perfect English... if you lack patience or need your ego stroke by a woman who is besotted by you before she's met you, I think you're in for a rough time.
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It was foolish of you to start communicating with someone in the first place who had poor English to start with if you didn't have the patience to allow things to develop.
btw... patience is one thing you'll need a lot of even if a woman speaks perfect English... if you lack patience or need your ego stroke by a woman who is besotted by you before she's met you, I think you're in for a rough time.
Kuna, I believe four months of communication can stretch the limits of anyone's patience. Katya told me she could speak good English. I have waited FOUR months to have a conversation with her without being able to tell if she really does or not. If that isn't being patient for you, then I'm not sure what is your own definition of patience.
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Kuna, I believe four months of communication can stretch the limits of anyone's patience. Katya told me she could speak good English. I have waited FOUR months to have a conversation with her without being able to tell if she really does or not. If that isn't being patient for you, then I'm not sure what is your own definition of patience.
The your perception of patience will be redefined IF you ever marry a RW. :P
This post illustrates even greater foolishness on your behalf. I'm not saying this to insult.. just to try to help you take responsibility for a situation YOU created.
1. If she told you she could speak good English it doesn't take long to work out if that is true... why would you need more than 1 or 2 emails?
2. You need a conversation to work out if the poor English in emails is just a problem with the version of web browser she is using???
Face it... it's easier for a person with basic language skills to take time to write an email, edit it... research it... etc... than it is to have a conversation LIVE... having to deal with accents or the speed someone speaks at makes the live conversation more difficult than written communication. If she couldn't write emails you could understand WHY would you think she would be able to speak any better?
Take responsibility for your own actions and you won't make the same mistakes again... blame your impatience on the woman's level of English and you're likely to repeat the fantasy again!
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Kuna, I really thought twice before replying to you because out of all the posts on this thead, yours brings the least contribution to me. You're not being objective and decided to attack me out of your own impaired judgement.
You are ignoring the fact that I accepted her emails to be translated online, long time ago. It doesn't necessarily mean her English is good or bad, she is simply writing her emails through an electronic translator and it's the translator messing up everything. I understand that and I chose to put up with it. I started taking Russian lessons on my own. Who will learn Russian in three months? maybe you.
You think I'm a fool. Let's leave it there. I don't want to read your comments anymore simply because they don't bring any value to me. I get to choose who helps me and who doesn't. It's as simple as that. Thank you for your comments but they stopped being helpful and objective and became critical and offensive.
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Kuna, I really thought twice before replying to you because out of all the posts on this thead, yours brings the least contribution to me. You're not being objective and decided to attack me out of your own impaired judgement.
You are ignoring the fact that I accepted her emails to be translated online, long time ago. It doesn't necessarily mean her English is good or bad, she is simply writing her emails through an electronic translator and it's the translator messing up everything. I understand that and I chose to put up with it. I started taking Russian lessons on my own. Who will learn Russian in three months? maybe you.
You think I'm a fool. Let's leave it there. I don't want to read your comments anymore simply because they don't bring any value to me. I get to choose who helps me and who doesn't. It's as simple as that. Thank you for your comments but they stopped being helpful and objective and became critical and offensive.
I'm only writing to help you - because you need help.
You lack comprehension... I NEVER said you were a fool... I said you were guilty of foolish behaviour. There is a difference.
Badabing... you need to find reality. Please try to follow the bouncing ball...
1. YOU SAID she said her English was good...
2. If her English was good she would not be writing via online translation... Understand?
3. You accepted these letters and dragged this thing out for 4 months even though YOU knew she had to use the online translation.
4. After 4 months you are blaming her for the communication problem... but you're a part of the problem. If you don't accept responsibility for it you've learned nothing.
5. You need to realise most RW won't write letters to boost your ego before you meet them... they are far more practical than that (unless they are scamming you).
6. If you need a woman by your side to say things that boosts your ego... you may be disappointed (but not necessarily). Harden up and find some self confidence. Stop whining!
7. IMHO most men that succeed in HAPPILY marrying a RW are those most capable of introspection. You're not demonstrating that yet.
8. It's admirable that you're trying to learn Russian... I greatly respect anyone that is fluent in a second (or third) language... but you're attempt at learning Russian will only help you marginally when you actually get off your butt and go to RU/UA... and even then it's likely to be a novelty.
If you're not prepared to accept the disadvantage of courting a woman who has low English language then don't waste your time, or her time, falling victim to the fantasy.
p.s. I know next to nothing... I've been married almost 5 years... but I was one of the ones that didn't want to add the risk of language to the complexity of this journey for all of the very obvious reasons.
You were prepared to flirt with the obvious and now you are showing you didn't have the patience to follow through.
Also, IMHO writing for 4 months is too long... What are you waiting for? Get on a plane and go and meet women who you think might be compatible - there's only so much you can learn about someone via email.
How much longer would you be writing with this woman if her English were even just a little better??? Perhaps you're waiting until you're sure she is the one you want to marry and then you'll go to meet her - but then complain there was no 'chemistry' and would have found another way that "she" wasted your precise time.
Just get serious and take responsibility for the things you do and you'll start to make some progress - whether that be with this woman or any other.
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The fact is that if it´s going to take a translator to get this relationship started and developed, I´m gonna have to call it quits. I have never been married but I´m sure that if there´s something my future ex-wife needs to have is a decent level of communication with me, or the relationship will not work from the beginning.
bing:
That's what they all say. Then they meet the great looking lady in person who can't speak any English and they do the opposite.
I will not move on unless I see some reciprocity from her to open more communication ways between us before we meet. All of your comments have influenced my decision.
Sounds like you are the Visit-One type. So, yes, you want to establish a better connection before making a trip to see her. But maybe she is not the penpal type. Maybe she is just not into you much [yet]. Regardless, I would be emailing other ladiies at the same time she is dragging her feet for 4 months.
Or change to the Visit-Several format of trip. Ladies like her are no-problem for the VM type. Schedule to meet her on day 1. Schedule lady 2 for day 4 and lady 3 for day 7. If you hit it off well with her, then email ladies 2 and 3 and tell them you had to cancel your plans to visit them (but leave it as an option to meet them at a later time).
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I'm only writing to help you - because you need help.
Badabing... you need to find reality.
It seems to me that Kuna is a way too categoric in his conclusions. Badabing provided only a part of his story, so one can go wrong on assumptions... or perceptions based on Badabing's insufficient info.
I'll try to illustrate how perceptions can lead to wrong conclusions:
When I was waiting my wife in a hairdressing salon I overheared a chat between two women. One told another: "Oh, I feel so exhausted today. It was so exciting yesterday, I still feel the pain between my legs". Then my ear radars were on to know more details. It turned out that the woman spent a great time in a gym, mostly on a exercise bicycle .
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It seems to me that Kuna is a way too categoric in his conclusions. Badabing provided only a part of his story, so one can go wrong on assumptions... or perceptions based on Badabing's insufficient info.
I'll try to illustrate how perceptions can lead to wrong conclusions:
When I was waiting my wife in a hairdressing salon I overheared a chat between two women. One told another: "Oh, I feel so exhausted today. It was so exciting yesterday, I still feel the pain between my legs". Then my ear radars were on to know more details. It turned out that the woman spent a great time in a gym, mostly on a exercise bicycle .
While delivered without sugar coating, Kuna is spot-on in his thoughts.
But I would like to add one piece for thought.
Being able to speak the same language does not guarantee communication.
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Wow! There is some great advice here... I still come back here from time to time.
I can tell you if communication is an issue now, don't expect it to get any better when you move her 7000 miles from home.
Secondly, if 4 months into this you still have yet to verify She is real. Sorry my friend you have wasted 4 months of your life never to be had again.
Culturally speaking, these women posess a different mindset than their western counterparts. For me I knew that a language barrier was an absolute NO .
With all the other transcontinental,multi cultural, man, woman,financial,family differences Just to name a few. :cluebat: I was not about to throw language into the mix.
My wife speaks English well, She however would not agree. My point is, every relationship has to be working from both sides. Yours is not! Whether its half way around the world or sitting next to you.
As far as fat yuri,drunk Ivan or Boris corresponding with you. I say personally odds are pretty good Since you have yet to verify it. Phone calls mean nothing,letters mean nothing and Skype is about 99% accurate. She is only 100% when you walk through the doors in Kiev and She is standing on the other side wearing a huge smile. Then and only then can you move forward in REAL life.
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It seems a little obvious to me that Badabing is a reasonable and patient man.
He came here to sound off of us about his situation and I do believe he realises the importance of communication.
His only "mistake" if you can call it that was by not being able to coach a telephone conversation or video skype chat out of her to date.
Up thread he has already concluded that he will try one more time to make it happen and if it doesn't go well will move on.
I can't find any thing to fault here except that he is going through the same learning curve as most.
Not sugar coating it is one thing, judging ones character over a few forum posts is IMO a bit over self confident.
If I had to guess, I would say that if and when he gets to talk to her, he will discover that SHE overestimated her English language skills and that in truth as Kuna said they won't be able to communicate.
Good to luck Badabing!
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Did I miss something? Who was judging character? If anything he went on the defensive when kuna laid it down for him. English or not, fact is 4 months has gone and he is here asking if She is real or not. My now wife would thumb through her Russian English dictionary whilst I would cut and paste Russian into a translator all the while in Skype for up to six hours at a time. Akward? Yes of course but thats what made it fun and interesting.
Bada is gaining the experience of the group collectively.
VO or VM however he wishes to do it but right now he is literally running blind.
He says he is not living in a fantasy but I beg to differ. Fantasy is all he has right now.
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Overall I do get the context of her message but it is hard for me to find anything new or exciting in what she writes. It´s always the same ¨look forward to meet with you in person¨and ¨let´s be sincere about each other¨...I just don´t find any passion in what she writes. Something is missing... All she writes about is going to visit her grandparents at the¡r village on weekends...and hating to go back to work on Mondays. She doesn´t ask any questions about my life or how is it where I live or anything like that :(
Maybe she corresponds with several or many other men and sends more or less the same letter to everybody. That could explain the monotony and dullness of the letters. But the pictures are still beautiful and speak for themselves.
Just a thought.
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I'm only writing to help you - because you need help.
I appreciate your help Kuna, I really do. And I appreciate everyone else's contribution here. You guys have really given me a different perspective that I needed really bad. Thanks !
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I appreciate your help Kuna, I really do. And I appreciate everyone else's contribution here. You guys have really given me a different perspective that I needed really bad. Thanks !
Heya Badabing,
Sometimes it takes a little jolt to snap the illusion and self delusion. You posed your question(s) because you felt, inside yourself, that something is wrong with this situation. Perhaps you wished for someone to tell you all is well so that your faith in the babe in the photos with which (note which) you were infatuated would be a little less shaken.
The rhetorical questions we each must ask ourselves sometimes is "what the hell is bothering me and why?" Get a grip on that and Kuna's (smack upside the head approach) messages will make more sense.
Have you wasted four months of your life? maybe yes, maybe no. Have you gained something through the experience?
Here's the straight deal as I see it... if you want to give this woman a shot, then you need to take the reins and lead the situation where you want it to go. She will respond to your action. Her response may not be what you want, but she'll damn sure respond. That's what they do. Positive, negative, indifferent -- you'll get a clearer picture.
Others have said it -- she's a pen pal, a phantom(ess) of your dreams, a projection of the fantasies infesting your mind... any trip you make is nothing more than a long commute on an expensive first date where all the months of communication, expectation, whatever, can evaporate into nothingness in a matter of minutes.
I agree with those who have stated that you are responsible for the situation ... Good, Bad, or Ugly (damn, we need a theme music option). You are always responsible for any and every situation in which you find yourself. So eat a can o' spinach.
The language barrier is not your primary problem, IMO, the LackOLuster seems to be. So, do something about that yourself.
At any rate, welcome aboard..
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I offered her to pay for her taxi from Gomel to Minsk (when she comes to meet me at the airport) and she said she would pay for it.
Badabing, I've read through this entire thread just now - and noticed this little "taxi" thing got by unnoticed. It's a 185 mile cab ride - was it she who first mentioned taking the taxi? Or was it simply an assumption on your part? There is a train that runs regularly between the two cities. One member here, Viking, has made that run several times. His wife hails from Gomel. Nobody from Gomel takes a taxi to Minsk unless they are of extremely wealthy means or fighting for life.
Her timidity doesn't necessarily bother me. The fact that she hasn't picked up the "trubka" to say hello when you've called is troubling. I agree that the three-way call cannot happen soon enough. Hop on it now.
In the future, regarding anything at all, refrain from making promises that you will likely break later on, for example, promising to arrive in late June and then changing your mind as uncertainty manifests itself in your own mind. In general, ladies will not appreciate a man not of his word. Start applying for the visa soon, it will be valid for a number of months (is it still six?) and you will avoid last-minute rush charges.
Edit: My bad - you must specify intended dates of travel and there is no open-ended timeframe as with a tourist style visa to the USA. Still, planning ahead will save one considerable expenses that could be applied elsewhere for the journey.
Letters. In my opinion only, write to her in English - and request that she reply in Russian. Translating for yourselves will not only teach you a little bit of the language even if only by osmosis, you both will benefit by a truer understanding of the other's communication. Secondly, it might set the two of you more at ease to really say what's on your minds, and not have to worry how to convert it to the foreign tongue.
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I appreciate your help Kuna, I really do. And I appreciate everyone else's contribution here. You guys have really given me a different perspective that I needed really bad. Thanks !
I gather you are talking with ONE lady and thinking about a trip to visit her. Why have you not written or talked with others?
I would recomend talking/writing many more, when you connect with the right woman, you won't have to ask about keping or leaving her, you will be planning your visit to meet her.
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In the future, regarding anything at all, refrain from making promises that you will likely break later on, for example, promising to arrive in late June and then changing your mind as uncertainty manifests itself in your own mind. In general, ladies will not appreciate a man not of his word.
This is one ( if not the ) most important things you will need to apply to life.
Making a promise and then breaking it, be it by design or through circumstances beyond your control is a fatal mistake. I found this out first hand and women do not forget promises, ever.
Very god advice
Thank You Vaughn
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This is one ( if not the ) most important things you will need to apply to life.
Making a promise and then breaking it, be it by design or through circumstances beyond your control is a fatal mistake. I found this out first hand and women do not forget promises, ever.
Very god advice
Thank You Vaughn
I really don't know if it's a FSUW thing or just a thing with my wife but, broken promises don't fly no matter how seemingly little or insignificant. It is much easier to not promise than to not follow through on a promise. Something as little as "I promise I'll trim those hedges" or as big as "we'll go on that trip this weekend" generally have the same weight with her. :D
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I really don't know if it's a FSUW thing or just a thing with my wife but, broken promises don't fly no matter how seemingly little or insignificant. It is much easier to not promise than to not follow through on a promise. Something as little as "I promise I'll trim those hedges" or as big as "we'll go on that trip this weekend" generally have the same weight with her. :D
LMAO
FP, your comment just stirred my memory banks and that's why I'm laughing.
Years ago I was visiting the outlaws with the wife. I remember sitting in the kitchen and my wife and her sister were talking while the radio was on. Suddenly they went mum and listen to whoever was talking on the radio and then they burst in laughter.
Since I don't know Russian, even though my out laws are convinced I do, I asked for a tranaslation. It went like this:
The DJ is asking listeners to share their love stories with the public; how they met, what keeps them together, etc.
This girl starts by saying that when her live-in boyfriend goes to work every day he says he'll be back for dinner time and he does. There are days he says he will not come homew after work and he doesn't. When he gets paid, he gives her money for the bills and then tells her he will go out with friends, get drunk, spend all the money and come back home. And he does it.
DJ and others chime in; why don't you leave this loser?
She says: "He may be a loser but he always keeps his promises."
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She says: "He may be a loser but he always keeps his promises."
LOL!! Dependability goes a long, long way.
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She says: "He may be a loser but he always keeps his promises."
Good one! All she has to do is negotiate a better promise.
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What hasn't been mentioned here up to now is that relationships cannot develop awfully well when people are using electronic translation. During critical stages, translation should be done by a person, not software. That way you write her in Russian and she replies in Russian. That removes all communication ambiguity in one sweep. Yes, it costs money, but so does everything in this endeavour.
Another thing that struck me from reading the replies is this insistence on Skype from so many guys. For sure, this is easy for us as we all have fast connections and PC's at home. This woman sounds like a village girl who pays to use a computer somewhere. Its understandable she doesn't want to have some half arsed conversation in a second language in front of others. Who would?
Naturally, a three way call would make sense. There are many such providers and it isn't awfully expensive, but like anything it can mount up.
Had the communication to date been translated properly - by a person - you would have known not just her number, but the best time to call.
You have had some good advice on the topic and I think you realise you have not gone into this quite right. Yes, you are the man. Women in this part of the world expect men to behave like men and take the lead. Writing through software for four months is not doing that. She will see that as dawdling behaviour that is not serious. Have your interpreter get in touch with her and fix up a three way call. Tell her of this in your next communication which should be properly translated by a person. If you encounter any resistance to that, then move on.
As a final thought, I see upthread that you are now giving more serious thought to the barrier that language creates. It is a big barrier and not one that should be underestimated. However, it can be overcome if you throw money at it if and when you have a proper relationship going on. As an American, if and when the time came, there will be many months of waiting for any US visa to be issued. This time can be used for intensive English lessons.
Assuming you haven't given up already, begin at once using proper translation and get the call fixed up ASAP. Forget the software stuff for now.
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While I agree that for some things a human translator is best, the main thing needed is a will to communicate. If that is present, communication will happen regardless of obstacles.
If there is no will to communicate, even native speakers of a language will not be able to do so.
Part of the experience is to meet friends and family, who often have no more knowledge of English as what they remember from one year in school. Still they are often able to bridge the language gap.Others can do amazing effort to communicate. When my mother-in-law heard that our eldest son actually understands English quite well (my mistake for putting on cBeebies instead of Dutch channels) she took het old courses and is once again learning English at over 73 years of age.
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...the main thing needed is a will to communicate. If that is present, communication will happen regardless of obstacles.
If there is no will to communicate, even native speakers of a language will not be able to do so...
Right on, Shadow. I asked Katya if she wanted to use a translator during our first phone call and she said, ¨yes, because this way I will be able to perfectly understand your complex phrases¨ :rolleyes:
I was trying to figure out why she assumed all of a sudden I used complex phrases...it must have been from a couple of messages I left on her voice mail. I probably talked too fast and she didn´t get one word.
I guess we all feel compelled to speak another language when we find a good reason for it, regardless of our age. In the case of your mother-in-law Shadow, I guess she found enough motivation to communicate with her grandson better. And, along the way she will communicate better with you.
Ok, let me clear up something guys. I have not broken any promise yet. Don´t jump to conclusions and don´t make a big drama out of this (i.e. ¨ you wasted 4 months of your life¨). I´m excited to finally be able to talk to Katya and eventually come to meet her and her family. It should be fun for both of us. That´s what matters.
I have to admit the 3 way call would have never crossed my mind, ever. I owe it to you guys (Gator, Boethius and Manny). I´ll keep you posted.
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Badabing,
I was just beginning to write to you and ask If you have talked to her yet.
:)
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Don't read too much into "complex phrases". Likely it is just her description of not being able to understand you. Written or spoken words need to be chosen carefully when trying to communicate directly with someone unfamiliar with the language. No slang, no abbreviations, keep your sentences short and to the point. A good translator will likely make a world of difference for you both.
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Badabing, let me try to give an example. In normal writing language we are all making phrases that are long, and these are pretty hard to translate using software or dictionaries as they become complex.
For translation break up sentences. It is easier to find the subject. They are faster to translate.
See what I did there ?
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Badabing, let me try to give an example. In normal writing language we are all making phrases that are long, and these are pretty hard to translate using software or dictionaries as they become complex.
For translation break up sentences. It is easier to find the subject. They are faster to translate.
See what I did there ?
good example
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I talked to Katya yesterday for the first time in 5 months. Her English is good. I paid Elena, the translator, to do the interpretation on a phone call but we never needed her. I called her first and talked to her without problems. I was so surprised to hear she understood every single word I said. It felt like I was on cloud #9. She told me she is going to be away training in Vitebsk in June. So I have to change my trip to come and see her in July. At least now I know she is real and not a product of my fantasy or imagination. From all the advice I've got here, women intuition hit the nail right on the head. Yet, I'm a man and think like most of the guys...I'm going to take a shot at this girl not only because I have spent so much time and effort on her but simply because I think she's worth it. Sometimes being patient pays off.
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I have an English school. One of our programs is a beginner's course that lasts 6 months and takes students from no English up to the pre-intermediate level. These courses are taught by Russian-speaking teachers. The students then join the intermediate program in which half of the classes are taught by a Russian-speaking teacher and half by a native speaker.
During the sixth month, I start showing up to classes to acclimate students to what's in store for them. We used to announce when I'd be showing up, but we stopped doing that, as most of the students would be absent on that day. Why? Because they were scared to death to speak with a native speaker. And these people were students who had put in a lot of time and had paid money for their goal of speaking English.
Similarly, I taught many classes at KSU, and my first lessons with a new class usually consisted of 18 silent students and 2 students I couldn't get to shut up. The English level of the students and their willingness to communicate was unrelated. People with outgoing personalities will speak regardless of their level.
And, in my single days, I've lost count of the number of girls I talked with who swore up and down they didn't speak English, and who, several dates later, fed up with listening to my Russian (it was quite bad in those days), switched over to decent English. The ones who immediately chatted in English seemed always to have agendas.
Most Ukrainians have a tendency to underestimate their language skills and are embarrassed at the thought of "showing their ass" (Russian phrase). Many are just plain lazy about language (something most of us can probably relate to).
My point is that a girl not wanting to have a conversation in English is not necessarily a sign that she is uninterested and is definitely not a sign she is scammer.
A point that is overlooked here is that you must insist on a Skype or telephone conversation. Not suggest. Not even ask. Insist. You don't have to be a d*ck about it, but you need to communicate as early as possible that this is not negotiable. If she refuses, move on.
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Quote from Tim
A point that is overlooked here is that you must insist on a Skype or telephone conversation. Not suggest. Not even ask. Insist. You don't have to be a d*ck about it, but you need to communicate as early as possible that this is not negotiable. If she refuses, move on.
+100
Out of curiousity, what are the specifics for the English classes?
Cost in grivna, hours each day, days per week ,etc.?
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...People with outgoing personalities will speak regardless of their level.
True - and not just in situations like this (think about any staff meeting in an office or building site).
Most Ukrainians and Russians have a tendency to underestimate their language skills and are embarrassed at the thought of "showing their ass" (Russian phrase). Many are just plain lazy about language (something most of us can probably relate to).
I've told this story before, but not for a while, so there will be plenty of people even newer than me that won't have seen it before.
On my first trip to Russia I was lucky enough to be invited to go on a coach trip with a large group of University English-language students. This was National Tourism Day (end of September), and we went from Naberezhnye Chelny (about 230 km east of Kazan) to Raifa Monastery near Kazan, then sightseeing in the big city before returning to Chelny.
Anyway, the reactions of the lecturers and students couldn't have been more different. I had already met one of the lecturers, as she was a friend of the woman I had gone to see and had interpreted on our phone conversations. The other lecturers all made me feel very welcome (all spoke very good English, if not native level). I got weird looks from all the students, with a couple of girls even looking like they thought I had horns on my head! :devilish: They had all been told that, as a special treat, they were going to have a native speaker along for the day, and that they were welcome to talk to me about anything to practise their English.
Four hours later we arrived at Raifa, and not one of the students had made a move, so my woman friend and I started exploring the Monastery (just as a side note - if anyone on this forum gets to Kazan, go to the Monastery. I was told that it is one of the holiest places in the Orthodox religion, and it is certainly very beautiful, although not particularly big). Finally, as I was gazing at the altar in one of the churches, one of the students came up to me and started to explain what everything meant. His English wasn't anywhere near perfect, but he was easy enough to understand. A couple of his classmates saw us talking and joined us and, as we went outside, more and more came over to the group.
Eventually there must have been about 30 surrounding us, and the questions finally started to flow, although still mainly in Russian. A few braver souls tried in English, and my original icebreaker explained that they were all worried that a native speaker would laugh at their attempts to speak English. I reassured them by pointing out that I had the same experience in reverse, but that nobody had laughed at my Russian language skills. They did laugh at that, which broke the ice, and for the next 15 minutes or so, until we had to return to the coach, a very lively discussion ensued.
This is the very point that Tim was making in his post - their English is much better than they think, but so many are scared to try it because they have had very little practice and think they will be laughed at. Reassure them on that point and a great weight is lifted off their shoulders.
My point is that a girl not wanting to have a conversation in English is not necessarily a sign that she is uninterested and is definitely not a sign she is scammer.
Exactly.
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I talked to Katya yesterday for the first time in 5 months. Her English is good. I paid Elena, the translator, to do the interpretation on a phone call but we never needed her. I called her first and talked to her without problems. I was so surprised to hear she understood every single word I said. It felt like I was on cloud #9. She told me she is going to be away training in Vitebsk in June. So I have to change my trip to come and see her in July. At least now I know she is real and not a product of my fantasy or imagination. From all the advice I've got here, women intuition hit the nail right on the head. Yet, I'm a man and think like most of the guys...I'm going to take a shot at this girl not only because I have spent so much time and effort on her but simply because I think she's worth it. Sometimes being patient pays off.
You can tell a lot from her tone, and manner then just the words..?
Was she happy to hear from you? enthusiastic about you coming to visit?
I hope there was some spark in the conversation, and that you have a great trip!.
It seems odd to me you dint get through to her before,as her English is good,but I have never bought into some of the adages here about RW generally being shy,or reserved, or waiting for the man to lead.
( most are far from any of that lol ,but yes quiet, reserved, shy types also of course exist there)
Anyway I've had plenty of RW call me out of the blue, and certainly if we had a couple months of emails.Certainly after a few months they would expect a call for sure,or feel i wasn't serious
(all the questions you initially had , they have as well)
One thing I have never experienced, is a RW that was really interested in me , that din't want
to talk, a lot, and often. :)
Your mileage may vary ,but i doubt it
You are the interested party here, and if you want , should give it a shot..
why not?
but its just a date, and traveling 14 hours verses 14 minutes doesn't change that really?
So I would advise keeping the expectations the same level as locally? a local woman that took 4 months of emails to get in contact by phone..i know that sounds harsh, and it isnt meant to be.
Its just where you actually are at , unless that one conversation really truly *clicked* for you both(which it may have?)
I'm sure you will build on the phone call with follow ups,
and if shes really interested, you should hear it in her voice when you call, and yes she should be asking a lot of questions about you, and wanting you to call often.(again only if she is really interested)
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Out of curiousity, what are the specifics for the English classes?
Cost in grivna, hours each day, days per week ,etc.?
At our physical school, we have group classes ranging from 495 UAH for 12 (one-hour) lessons (beginner) to 595UAH for 8 lessons (conversation). Our online prices are a little higher because the classes are smaller (4 vs. 6-8).
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I talked to Katya yesterday for the first time in 5 months. Her English is good. I paid Elena, the translator, to do the interpretation on a phone call but we never needed her. I called her first and talked to her without problems. I was so surprised to hear she understood every single word I said. It felt like I was on cloud #9. She told me she is going to be away training in Vitebsk in June. So I have to change my trip to come and see her in July. At least now I know she is real and not a product of my fantasy or imagination. From all the advice I've got here, women intuition hit the nail right on the head. Yet, I'm a man and think like most of the guys...I'm going to take a shot at this girl not only because I have spent so much time and effort on her but simply because I think she's worth it. Sometimes being patient pays off.
Whether it will with this one remains for you to see. In this recipe for Cross Cultural Quagmire Quiche of boy meets girl, patience is a base ingredient. Without it you'll just wind up with scrambled eggs.
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I talked to Katya yesterday for the first time in 5 months. Her English is good. I paid Elena, the translator, to do the interpretation on a phone call but we never needed her.
Glad that Elena was able to help. What was Elena's opinion?
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One thing I have never experienced, is a RW that was really interested in me , that din't want
to talk, a lot, and often. :)
Your mileage may vary ,but i doubt it
Any woman likes "to talk, a lot and often." So if they are interested in you, they go into high gear. When dating AW, I would get those calls all the time that started with "What you doing?"
Badabing,
Something does not add up. She speaks English well but was too disinterested (or too lazy/busy) to correct her electronic translation? She dodged your attempts to speak by phone? Etc.
I trust she has a convincing explanation. My guess is that you were not her first choice, and her first choice is not materializing. In contrast, you are planning a trip. So that places you in the front. Just be sure she is worth the trip.
To fly there and meet only one woman is something special. You should feel that she is really enthusiastic about your visit. In your posts I am not sensing that. I sense that it is not 50-50, but 90% you, 10% her. Hope I am wrong.
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I sense that it is not 50-50, but 90% you, 10% her. Hope I am wrong.
Hey fellow Gator, you are wrong my friend. Actually it´s more like 85% her and 15% me. She´s more enthusiastic about my trip than I am. Over the last few days and since we talked, she has openly declared in her emails she has strong feelings for me. She tells me this never happened to her before and never expected to happen like this. She is saying she wants to be with me all the time I am in Belarus. I am not really sure how to react to that.
I read every single email she sent me since we started our communication and I think I misjudged her... I feel like an idiot. She was very clear and up front with me from the start. Her affection to me increased gradually with time. Her English is broken but good enough to understand what she means.
And like any good woman, talks a lot and often.
She didn´t want to have a 3 way call. So we never used Elena´s translation service.
I´m almost ready to pull the trigger on the trip but I still have some concerns. She said she is going to arrange a taxi ¨to bring me to her¨. She says a taxi ride will be 3 to 3.5 hours from Minsk to the town near Gomel where she lives because the train ride would be over 5 hours. Someone mentioned earlier on this thread that this taxi ride is very expensive. Can anyone confirm that for me? I´ll check the trip reports to see if I can find something about this.
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You are a man and you have a pair (normally two), so tell her you hate car not driven by you, and you will take the train ANYWAY. And observe the reaction. If the reaction is not respectful or stubborn or is she tries to manupulate you, drop her immediately. It happens twice that a girl insisted to use a taxi on a long distance : it was a scam twice.
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Hey fellow Gator, you are wrong my friend. Actually it´s more like 85% her and 15% me. She´s more enthusiastic about my trip than I am. Over the last few days and since we talked, she has openly declared in her emails she has strong feelings for me. She tells me this never happened to her before and never expected to happen like this. She is saying she wants to be with me all the time I am in Belarus. I am not really sure how to react to that.
I read every single email she sent me since we started our communication and I think I misjudged her... I feel like an idiot. She was very clear and up front with me from the start. Her affection to me increased gradually with time. Her English is broken but good enough to understand what she means.
And like any good woman, talks a lot and often.
She didn´t want to have a 3 way call. So we never used Elena´s translation service.
I´m almost ready to pull the trigger on the trip but I still have some concerns. She said she is going to arrange a taxi ¨to bring me to her¨. She says a taxi ride will be 3 to 3.5 hours from Minsk to the town near Gomel where she lives because the train ride would be over 5 hours. Someone mentioned earlier on this thread that this taxi ride is very expensive. Can anyone confirm that for me? I´ll check the trip reports to see if I can find something about this.
Badabing,
how much is a 3 1/2 hour taxi ride where you live?
it will be about the same as hers.
There is a very strong vibe from this man
I can tell you that you may be asked to pay for that taxi.
DONT send MONEY to anyone you have never met in person. ok?
just don't.
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You are a man and you have a pair (normally two), so tell her you hate car not driven by you, and you will take the train ANYWAY. And observe the reaction. If the reaction is not respectful or stubborn or is she tries to manupulate you, drop her immediately. It happens twice that a girl insisted to use a taxi on a long distance : it was a scam twice.
Excellent point Patagonie. I will follow your advice for sure.
I´m in contact with a travel agency and they can arrange the transportation for me. So I will tell her I will take care of my own transportation.
I´m thinking... if this is a scam, ¨she¨ will send a taxi to pick me up at the airport and then what? The driver will take me to a warehouse where they take all my belongings and knock me out? I don´t want to wake up in an alley with a huge cut on my back before someone notices they stole both of my kidneys.
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Badabing,
how much is a 3 1/2 hour taxi ride where you live?
it will be about the same as hers.
There is a very strong vibe from this man
I can tell you that you may be asked to pay for that taxi.
DONT send MONEY to anyone you have never met in person. ok?
just don't.
You are right. A taxi for a 3.5 hr ride would be around $500 american dollars where I live. I need to find out a few things before I continue this adventure.
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The driver will take me to a warehouse where they take all my belongings and knock me out? I don´t want to wake up in an alley with a huge cut on my back before someone notices they stole both of my kidneys.
If they took both of your kidneys you'll never wake up. It's a bright side :)
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You are right. A taxi for a 3.5 hr ride would be around $500 american dollars where I live. I need to find out a few things before I continue this adventure.
The best way in communication with her is to be direct to the level of primitivity. Why don't propose her to save money and go by train?
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Excellent point Patagonie. I will follow your advice for sure.
I´m in contact with a travel agency and they can arrange the transportation for me. So I will tell her I will take care of my own transportation.
I´m thinking... if this is a scam, ¨she¨ will send a taxi to pick me up at the airport and then what? The driver will take me to a warehouse where they take all my belongings and knock me out? I don´t want to wake up in an alley with a huge cut on my back before someone notices they stole both of my kidneys.
well that's a bit extreme :)
its far more likely
1.she's legit, but not overly concerned with your perception of her coming to pick you up in a taxi or via train.,as any foreigner the money shouldn't (in her mind perhaps) by enough to be a n issue verses the convenience.
2. she would tell you the cost, either hoping you'd send it before hand or you reimbursing her after she picks you up.
The possible scam is not showing up (seems unlikekly ) or the (rather common) scam can be the cost might be inflated for her and the driver to get a bit extra..
or
it could be the real cost and see #1 above.
:)
What a pickle we put ourselves in ?
At some point you have to have enough communication with her to simply trust her and just go see what develops,
you cant enter these situations with a pocket full of doubt or mistrust.
It kills any natural progression of a relationship before one even starts ..
you DO have to keep your eyes wide open.
you cant write off a series of oddities as cultural differences
boy meets girl that likes him, in any culture is the SAME everywhere.
early on , based on very limited data, i'd say she wasnt that into you , the classic.
perhaps casually interested
now your last post states thing far differently than prior.
You know your conversations, you should have a very good vibe from her of whether its legit or odd.
Hopefully since her english is good your phone often and not relying on email or sms.
The taxi thing seems weird to me.
my wife wouldnt have taken a taxi even if i had really pushed the idea..or insisted.. it would be viewed as a silly waste of money, when the bus or train would get the job done at a fraction the cost.
i've also known RW that would think that was the perfectly correct thing to do,and they had their reasons and background for feeling that way.
I cant say either is *wrong?* its just a very different view from very different personas..
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Badabing,
Glad to learn that my perceptions were wrong.
Regarding the taxi ride, as Jumper says, some FSUW want to protect you. If she is genuine, she can arrange a taxi for less money than you can. And yes trains are slower than cars in the FSU except for some high traffic routes (e. g., Kiev-Kharkov with high speed trains).
Viking's wife is from Belarus. I suggest that you PM Viking with some questions and ask if you could call him. Viking is resourceful and dependable, plus a good guy.
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Belvis, you can live without both kidneys for several weeks with dialysis in a third world country hospital.
Jumper, you read my mind like a book. Why am I even thinking to go to a small town in the countryside of Belarus if I can't even trust my girl ? It's all about trust my friend. Such a simple word and so much inside it. Easy to say it or write it, and so hard to feel it specially after you have been around.
Go Gators ! I spent some time online researching taxi rides from Minsk to the Belarusian countryside. I even got some feedback from a dude who's been there twice. He said the 3.5 hr taxi ride will be $100 or so. If fellow member Viking answers my PM I'll confirm that. It all looks good now. I was freaking out without a reason.
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I have friends in Belarus now (RW) I'll ask them what the taxi rate for that trip might be.
Trust is the big issue in most any of these long distance scenarios, (from both sides)
Those with high risk aversion, should sit it out.
I just never saw the risk as amounting to much..
I mean what is any man really risking by going to meet someone and having a date? if its across town he wouldn't sweat it at all? but if its across continents, then its a big factor? why?
because he risks that horrible thing *travel* ? lol i just never get that mentality.
Although my guess is many are emotionally invested first, so the real risk is not the time or money, but the dashing of hopes and dreams in their mind.
all that i would likely lose by trusting someone I had hopefully established a good deal of communication with?
1. a little time
2. a little money.
My grandfather used to say, loan a man $5, if you never see him again? Well , it was money well spent ;)
Keep in mind the caveat is having established a good bit of communication with.. where I felt completely comfortable making that decision.
I probably don't take nearly as much as someone else,
because ultimately I'd just look at it as an adventure to a new place, and if things went south or the woman dint show, i'd just consider it part of life and move right along.
You are the one in direct communication with her, so you're the one who has the best information to be a good judge of whether she is genuinely interested in meeting you.(and for what motive)
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I very seldom met someone I was dating in their town/city. They were more than happy to come to Moscow and see me. As it turns out they all paid their own way and I gave them round trip $$ within 5 minutes of our first meeting.
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I got an email today from my girl. She says she is going to order a taxi, come to pick me up at Minsk airport and then go back to her town. This is going to cost $350. So it is pricy but I forgot she's doing a round trip.
According to Viking's wife, going to see her in her hometown is not necessarily a good thing. There is a chance that during my visit I get slammed into spending lots of money on her, family or friends and if things don't work out, bye bye.
From what I've been able to tell from my girl she is a decent woman, raised in a small town, with a Christian upbringing and good family values. She says she wants to show me her world. She wants to introduce me to her friends and parents. I doubt her plan B [she doesn't like me] is to make me spend a lot of cash on her, specially in a small town with no Gucci or Louis Vuitton shops. But I won't rule out this from happening.
So I'm going to approach this trip as a vacation/visit to see the countryside of Belarus. If we like each other and things go well, then that will be a bonus. If not, it will be another trip to a place I've never been before and I'll just try to enjoy myself and have a good time.
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From what I've been able to tell from my girl she is a decent woman, raised in a small town, with a Christian upbringing and good family values.
Those my friend are expectations.. something to avoid entirely.
Unti you sit fact to face, assume nothing.
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You wrote earlier that:
She said she will take me to her hometown and introduce me to all her friends and family
Most excellent and shows that she is serious. I have great respect for Viking and believe that his wife is advising on the side of caution which in this adventure is a good thing. Give what you've shared however, I believe that you are in for a special visit.
You've mentioned her Christianity a couple of times and I agree with BC that first you must get to know her to find out how she defines those things.
If in fact she is a devout believer in Belarus that likely means that she is Russian Orthodox unless she lives near the borders of Western Ukraine or Poland which is more split between Orthodox and Roman Catholic (or Greek Catholic/Uniate which is a form of Orthodoxy but united with Rome). A liturgy whether Orthodox or Ukrainian Uniate is almost the same but when compared to a Roman Catholic service there are some important differences. To someone new to an Eastern church experience I've published a guide of the Orthodox liturgy "do's and don'ts" here (http://russianreport.wordpress.com/religion-in-russia/orthodox-worship-understanding-etiquette/).
Lastly, however the taxi cost seems high but I don't remember seeing her town. How far is she from Minsk?
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Those my friend are expectations.. something to avoid entirely.
Unti you sit fact to face, assume nothing.
Those are not my expectations BC, it's my perception of her. I have been communicating with her for 5 months now and I believe I am entitled to have a perception.
I wasn't born yesterday. I know there are no perfect people on this world.
A face to face meeting is only the first step, things can easily go south for so many other reasons even when there is mutual attraction.
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You wrote earlier that:
Most excellent and shows that she is serious. I have great respect for Viking and believe that his wife is advising on the side of caution which in this adventure is a good thing. Give what you've shared however, I believe that you are in for a special visit.
You've mentioned her Christianity a couple of times and I agree with BC that first you must get to know her to find out how she defines those things.
If in fact she is a devout believer in Belarus that likely means that she is Russian Orthodox unless she lives near the borders of Western Ukraine or Poland which is more split between Orthodox and Roman Catholic (or Greek Catholic/Uniate which is a form of Orthodoxy but united with Rome). A liturgy whether Orthodox or Ukrainian Uniate is almost the same but when compared to a Roman Catholic service there are some important differences. To someone new to an Eastern church experience I've published a guide of the Orthodox liturgy "do's and don'ts" here (http://russianreport.wordpress.com/religion-in-russia/orthodox-worship-understanding-etiquette/).
Lastly, however the taxi cost seems high but I don't remember seeing her town. How far is she from Minsk?
Mendeleyev, she lives on the eastern side close to the border with Ukraine. The town is around 290 kms from Minsk.
I assume she is Russian Orthodox. I am Catholic, but I'm not that religious (I never go to church).
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Most Ukrainians have a tendency to underestimate their language skills and are embarrassed at the thought of "showing their ass" (Russian phrase). Many are just plain lazy about language (something most of us can probably relate to).
My point is that a girl not wanting to have a conversation in English is not necessarily a sign that she is uninterested and is definitely not a sign she is scammer.
I want to reinforce that point. From the first time I arrived with my 2 words of Russian I have driven myself-- and driven everywhere all over Ukraine.Many small towns included in the countryside and I always seem to find someone with a few english words.Often initially reluctant and apologetic but once I got them smiling and laughing with me( at me!) it often finished with everyone within earshot trying the english words they knew with me. Most younger people had enough to help me-- you could see the pride when their countrymen realised they were communicating with this crazy Australian with no Russian ! I have to say-- this was fun for me and I have seen how nice these people are close up.
I have also met girls who only tried to speak what turned out to be very passable english only after that had the gist of what I was about.
Of course now that I am nearly fluent in 6 words of Russian it is much easier!!
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It has been a month since your last post. Have you already gone on your trip? what has become of your 6 month correspondence? just curious how things went.
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It has been a month since your last post. Have you already gone on your trip? what has become of your 6 month correspondence? just curious how things went.
Don't you hate mystery! Even if guys/gals decide forum is not for them,or do not want to post details-- it would be great if they tidied up-- just say that they do not want to say anything else.
I must have read 200 plus starts to adventures -- about 10% follow up.
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Don't you hate mystery! Even if guys/gals decide forum is not for them,or do not want to post details-- it would be great if they tidied up-- just say that they do not want to say anything else.
I must have read 200 plus starts to adventures -- about 10% follow up.
LOL I admit I am curious about how these things actually turn out in the end. Especially (not this thread) the ones that boast and tout that they have it all figured out, then ..never hear from them again.
You can read mine, it's a good read. and it's ... well just read it...
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14463.0 (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14463.0) It's called Hi I'm Jason
I will even give away the ending...
It ends with naked skydiving
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It ends with naked skydiving
and I do hope your 'midline appendage' does not end up as a souvenir!
Quit while you are ahead and find ecstasy elsewhere...