Keep her or leave her?

[Badabing]

I started to email Katya in Russian (using Google translator) some months ago. I was also taking some Russian lessons on my own and did manage to learn the cyrillic alphabet so that I could at least read some words and names. I figured, if my future wife´s native language is going to be Russian, I better start learning it sooner than later. After a few emails she switched back to English, I don´t remember exactly why. I guess I forgot to translate one of my messages into Russian and her reply came back in English. I did notice a little more sense in her emails when she wrote in Russian. At least she was more open to express herself and maybe this is what I should push for now but if her English is as good as my Russian...is there any future to this ¨relationship¨?

Vasilisa, thank you for your feedback. It´s good to see a woman´s point of view here as well. And I agree with what you say. She´s probably timid to have a conversation in English just as much as I would be reluctant to have a conversation in Russian. I am aware of the time difference (+7 hrs for me) and I did tell her that I wanted to call her in a moment that would be comfortable for her to talk. So we agreed that between 9:00pm and 11:00pm (her time) would be a good time to talk, but she never answered my calls. I have ruled out her being a scammer. Last year I ran into one and I think I perfectly know the way they approach their victims. I told this to Katya in one of my emails and she also told me something bad that happened to her online that I am not going to discuss here.

On the other hand I also agree with what the guys are saying. Why should I jump with both feet into something I am not 100% comfortable with ?It´s true I may know the answers to all my questions but I am also confused because the details of all this online dating are not as simple as it looks.

I think I will follow Vasilisa´s advice and try once more to Skype with her and see what she says.

Hammer, you asked if I was hooked by a photo, and the truth is that I was. I have to admit Katya is freakin´ beautiful. Platinum blonde with blue eyes.  She is not a scammer ! She has sent me plenty of  photos of her and I have surfed all the internet and vk.com looking for these photos. I am 95% certain she is not a scammer.

I guess some of you have put it as simple as it is here and I truly appreciate it, but within the confines of my mind, all the emotions and thoughts mixed together make it quite complicated.

[Shadow]

Her sentences are hard to understand: she uses Promt to translate things.
She wants to show you to her friends and family : She is interested in you as marriage material.

Contrary to some, I do believe she is genuine. If you call her be sure it is evening time for her, even if that means its in the middle of the night for you.
And yes, internet in small town can still be difficult so she may not be able to use Skype and webcam yet.

Be patient, its almost June. Go see her, and hope when face-to-face you can communicate.

[Gator]

Badabing,
   (you may want to introduce yourself in the Intro section of RWD)
 

You have invested time with this woman and you feel she is sincere.  Rather than walk away now, do a 3-way phone call with her in which you hire an interpreter to make the call.  You can talk for about an hour for $50.  In that hour you can learn much. 
 
I have two cautions for you:
 
1.  Her conversational English is probably very weak.   If so, I hope you have a lot of time because developing a relationship with someone who knows little English is difficult.  You will need to pay for her to take English lessons.  It could take a couple of years.   Search the archives for threads about this issue.
 
2.  You seem smitten by her beauty.  Yes, RW can be very beautiful.  Nevertheless, there must be more, much more.   Before taking a trip to meet just one woman, you should have good feelings about comaptibility, goals, values, etc.   Do not fall in love with a photograph.  Have you read the 10 commandments and other guidelines?
 

BTW, how did you meet this woman?   When do you plan to take a trip?
 
Good luck, and again 
 
 
 

[Hammer2722]

Badabing, I believe you when you say she is real. She may not be answering her phone because she knows that she will not be able to communicate with you. I think Gator's suggestion of doing a 3-way call is a good one. If you can find someone willing to do this for you ( I know there are some commercial members here who can do it), then you can suggest this to her as well. If she still refuses, then you will have your answer as far as her true interest in you. Skyping will not solve your dilemma other than to prove that you cannot communicate due to language differences unless you had a 3rd party to translate.

[TheTraveler]

if she's a scammer, i fail to see the scam.  she never asked you for money, right?

she obviously doesn't speak english, and it appears likely that she's using a machine translator, so she's probably self-conscious about her english.  and since you don't speak russian, how do you see that phone conversation going???

muzh is right... have her email you only in russian... then you can handle the translations (hired or machine).

she only responds to you first... so what?  ever heard of the old fashioned concept that the girl doesn't call the guy?.  goes to church sometimes... that sets her apart from 95% of the RW population IME.  another plus in.her favor.

count me among vasalisa and kuna and the minority opinion here.  i met my wife with probably 1 prior phone call (i was with a translator), since my russian and her english weren't up to phone conversational levels.  no big deal.

sounds, though, like she isn't stroking your ego enough for your liking... it would be interesting to know her view of how inspiring your correspondence is.  who knows?

good luck!

[Badabing]

I agree with you Shadow.

Gator / Hammer, I think the 3 way call is a great idea. How do I do this? She tells me her English is good so she may put some resistance to do this but at the same time will clear all doubts.

I met her on elenasmodels.com. I am planning to arrive Minsk on June XXth; that day is her birthday. I haven't bought the ticket or even got the visa yet due to these doubts I have,  but the 3-way call sounds reasonable and may help her loosen up. I guess once we meet in person, if communication continues to be an issue, I will have even more questions and concerns. This is like a never ending story...

Traveler, she never asked me for money. I can tell she is very proud. I offered her to pay for her taxi from Gomel to Minsk (when she comes to meet me at the airport) and she said she would pay for it.  "She obviously speaks no English"... yet she says she does, another display of pride.

[Gator]

Gator / Hammer, I think the 3 way call is a great idea. How do I do this?

Elena Henrickson   elen@cmspan.net   
 
She lives in Oregon.  I used her many times over several years.  Be sure to tell Elena about all your concerns before you call.   Elena will give you her opinion after the call.  Her opinion after participating in a call will be more reliable than what the rest of us can say.
 

      She tells me her English is good so she may put some resistance to do this but at the same time will clear all doubts.   

You will soon know her English level.   It is odd that she has no computer or a friend with  a computer.  Yes, doing Skype in front of teenagers at an Internet Cafe would be like having phone sex with an interpreter. 
 
BTW, if she says she has no phone.......that is a big red flag.
 

I met her on elenasmodels.com. I am planning to arrive Minsk on June 29th; that
day is her birthday. I haven't bought the ticket or even got the visa yet due to
these doubts I have,  but the 3-way call sounds reasonable and may help her
loosen up. I guess once we meet in person, if communication continues to be an
issue, I will have even more questions and concerns. This is like a never ending
story...

If she is inviting you for her birthday, that is a huge positive factor.  BTW, delete the B-day from your posts.  There are lurkers who enjoy making trouble.
 
Maybe she is a member of the local mafia and is attracted to you because you resemble Al Capone.

[I/O]

One lady's posted in this thread so far - listen to her.

[Hammer2722]

Alot of times the lady will say she doesn't speak English even when her English might be fair. This could be why she says this. My girl Lena said her English isn't so good (she still says this) but when we first started Skyping, I was quite surprised by how good it really was. The point is you are going to have have communication issues even if you go to see her. You should make some plans to have a translator available for you if you are still planning on going.

[I/O]

Yes, doing Skype in front of teenagers at an Internet Cafe would be like having phone sex with an interpreter.

ROFL....!!! Not speaking from experience I should hope?

[Badabing]

Actually, I was the one who asked her when was her birthday and planned the trip to arrive Minsk on this day. I was expecting her to ask me in return when was my birthday... she never did. I'm wondering if this is a cultural thing where the male has to assume the dominant role of asking questions and expect no questions back from the woman.

She does have a phone / number. She sent it to me a couple of months ago on an email but I tried to call her several time with no success.

I think Vasilisa made a good point when she said she's being shy and uncomfortable to have a conversation.

I will contact Elena once Katya approves the call (thanks for the contact Gator). I will have to be very subtle in the way I tell Katya about this.

In the back of her mind she knows everything will change when we meet. She wrote this to me today:

"I hope, that we can be each person of dream of others the party and mainly inside. But we can make only it in the person, I think."

I can tell she is an intelligent woman but the translation messes up the true meaning of her words...and this is what's so frustrating! I'd really like to know how she's reading in Russian what I write to her in English. Maybe it makes no sense to her either.

[Anotherkiwi]

I can tell she is an intelligent woman but the translation messes up the true meaning of her words...and this is what's so frustrating! I'd really like to know how she's reading in Russian what I write to her in English. Maybe it makes no sense to her either.

I know exactly what you mean here!  It's incredibly frustrating to see a nice long letter, fully of happy exclamation marks, then you turn on Google, or Promt, or another on-line translator and...huh?????  What on earth?
 
One suggestion I found incredibly useful was to write my letter in English, translate it to Russian, then translate back to English...and keep making little changes until, as far as I could tell, what was going out in Russian was exactly what I had written in English (well, as close as I could get, anyway).  This resulted in one lady saying that my Russian was obviously fluent!     
 
Machine translation can only do so much - this is why this forum is so good.  There are so many Russian speakers that anything curly can easily be translated by several of the members, even if they may disagree slightly on a literal or figurative interpretation.

[Faux Pas]

Actually, I was the one who asked her when was her birthday and planned the trip to arrive Minsk on this day. I was expecting her to ask me in return when was my birthday... she never did. I'm wondering if this is a cultural thing where the male has to assume the dominant role of asking questions and expect no questions back from the woman.

Just to be clear Bada, I am not calling or declaring this woman a scammer but, you have a number of flags that just don't go away, in fact, it piles on with more information you provide. No, it isn't about a dominant role. She should be or actually is, as curious about you as you are her. If she isn't, she's not paying attention to you.

She does have a phone / number. She sent it to me a couple of months ago on an email but I tried to call her several time with no success.

Why the lack of success? It's not that difficult. We're talking about punching in numbers, she answers. Even if you can't communicate, you can hear each others voice. This opens other doors. Calling Belarus can be a challenge for the beginner. Have the number, check out RWD and other places on the net to insure you are dialing correctly

I think Vasilisa made a good point when she said she's being shy and uncomfortable to have a conversation.

Sure she is. But, if she is interested in you as a man and possible romantic interest shy and uncomfortable dissipates real quick. We're talking 4 months here. Are you prepared for another 4 months of the same?

I will contact Elena once Katya approves the call (thanks for the contact Gator). I will have to be very subtle in the way I tell Katya about this.

Forget subtle. Contact Elena and have her call her for a conversation and setting up the very earliest all 3 can have a 3-way call. Not next week or month, like tomorrow.

In the back of her mind she knows everything will change when we meet. She wrote this to me today:

"I hope, that we can be each person of dream of others the party and mainly inside. But we can make only it in the person, I think."

Chances are they will change and if they do, the outcome likely isn't good for you. You know next to nothing about each other.

I can tell she is an intelligent woman but the translation messes up the true meaning of her words...and this is what's so frustrating! I'd really like to know how she's reading in Russian what I write to her in English. Maybe it makes no sense to her either.

You really can't tell anything. You can't and haven't communicated with her at all. You've made contact. Call the interp Elena and have her call at once, set up a 3 way. Get these questions you've ask here, answered at once. The time is now.

  Good luck guy

[ECOCKS]

There is a big difference between a woman not being worth further effort or serious material and being a scammer.

Other than a couple of people mentioning in passing that since there has been no voice call she could even be a "fat Yuri" I don't recall scammer being mentioned.

Always gone to visit grandparents on weekends, phone-calls straight to voicemail, refusal to Skype, etc.. these situations simply don't bode well when they occur after four months with a woman who was supposedly interested in marrying a non-Russian.

Best of Luck to you!

[noelscot]

I have been communicating by email with Katya from Belarus for almost 4 months now. The problem I have is that I can barely understand her emails. It seems she is translating into English what she writes in Russian through an electronic/online translator. After reading her messages, some of the sentences don´t make sense at all. Overall I do get the context of her message but it is hard for me to find anything new or exciting in what she writes. It´s always the same ¨look forward to meet with you in person¨and ¨let´s be sincere about each other¨...I just don´t find any passion in what she writes. Something is missing... All she writes about is going to visit her grandparents at theĦr village on weekends...and hating to go back to work on Mondays.  She doesn´t ask any questions about my life or how is it where I live or anything like that   If for some reason I don´t write or reply to her email, she will not take the initiative to email me again or write something on her own.

I have tried to call her several times and my call ends up in her voice mail. In 4 months I haven´t had the chance to talk to her once! I asked her once to videochat on Skype and she said she doesn´t have a computer at home. I can tell she has a feisty personality (which I like) because she told me she didn´t want to go to an Internet Cafe, where all the teenagers hang out, to use Skype and let the whole town find out she is looking for a husband on the Internet 

I told her I was coming to see her by the end of June. She said she will take me to her hometown and introduce me to all her friends and family...yet she will not videochat through Skype with me first. I don´t even know how good her English is or if I will have problems communicating with her. I´m dubious about the trip. I don´t have a plan B. She´s really the only girl I have been writing to in months, but I´m confused. I´m not sure if I should go to visit her without ever talking to her on the phone ! Am I weighing all on the negative here or being to pessimistic ? Any feedback is welcome.

Lose all this "keep her or leave her" stuff. She's not your girlfriend until you put your pinkstick in her.
I'd keep her phone number for when I was infiltrated to the FSU, but move on to other women with better English and more willingness to communicate. Good luck.

[newjason]

I just don´t find any passion in what she writes. Something is missing... FLAG

 She doesn´t ask any questions about my life or how is it where I live or anything like that FLAG

I have tried to call her several times and my call ends up in her voice mail. FLAG

...yet she will not videochat through Skype with me first.   FLAG

I don´t even know how good her English is or if I will have problems communicating with her.  FLAG

 I´m not sure if I should go to visit her without ever talking to her on the phone !  FLAG

These are what are the obvious Red Flags that I can see.   
Badabing,  you should keep this in perspective.

You have NOT ONCE spoken to or seen who you are exchanging letters with.  In 120+ days, you have yet to hear or see her live. 
If she take no initiative  now to communicate with you, to learn about you, to even ask how you are, What is it about you that will magically change that about her and suddenly make her interested?

Keep in mind, that in 4 months, you still can not confirm that this person is male or female.   

Next

She does show some interest because she has to go to an ¨Internet Club¨ where she rents a computer to write to me. And we do exchange 3 or 4 messages each week. So, there is an effort from her side to keep the communication going on.

Is there really?  Did you not just say that she is on Elena'a models as a ...(for lack of  a better term )  Bride?  So, do you honestly beleive you are the only person writing her? Do you think she is writing only you? how much effort can it really be to write 3 letters a week to you...

I really doubt she is a scammer but you are right. My main concern is her resistance to have a phone conversation or a Skype session. It puzzles me and simply doesn't add up in my mind.

It makes no matter if she is or isn't,  does it?
It does add up,  to a red flag.
Like Gator said  : Do not fall in love with a photo!  Really.

In 4 months you have 0 (zero) face time or ear time.  ? @! 

I can't say it better than the honorable Faux Paux,

"The old adage that if it looks, feels and tastes like shit, it's probably shit "

Where I came from it was a duck, but the quack is the same...

Vasalisa said,

What puzzles me is why would you wish to meet the girl who you are unable to communicate with?

If you can't make heads or tails of her letters, how do you think it will be after a year or two of marriage?
   <silence and the sound of cricket bows>

You are filling in too many of the blanks yourself with fantasies.  That is not good.

GQBlues :

Why would any man want to be with a woman who feels 'embarrassment' in her effort to communicate with her potential 'husband'. For any person, man or woman, who have any feeling of embarrassment for the process should NOT be IN the process. What does this say about 'YOU'?

Like I said before,  you are filling in the blanks yourself. 
Don't do that, It only builds unrealistic expectations.



Vasilisa:

My advice would be to persuade her to have a skype video call at least to wave to each other and go from there.

 
LOL

Exactly.

Hi Vasi




Whoa Dude!

I figured, if my future wife´s native language is going to be Russian, I better start learning it sooner than later.

Your what?  Future Wife? 
So in your mind, you have already married, live in a nice little house with a white picket fence and it's all a very quaint little life. 
so,  how dare she spoil that by not doing everything you have imagined!   ..that bitch!

Honestly Badabing
You have this unrealistic expectaton already.  With a photo and some words.

I remember when it was easy to do that with an issue of pethouse magazine...
Of course I was 15 at the time. 
Dear Penthouse Fourm...

So your question? Keep her or leave her?

How much is this costing you $$$ wise?

just out of curiosity.

Hammer, you asked if I was hooked by a photo, and the truth is that I was. I have to admit Katya is freakin´ beautiful. Platinum blonde with blue eyes.  She is not a scammer ! She has sent me plenty of  photos of her and I have surfed all the internet and vk.com looking for these photos. I am 95% certain she is not a scammer.

I guess some of you have put it as simple as it is here and I truly appreciate it, but within the confines of my mind, all the emotions and thoughts mixed together make it quite complicated.

I swear, why does it seem like these fanatasies are like crack to some guys?


Yes, your mind is making it complicated for you, because you want it to be real. But it is in your mind.
So I think nothing that we say here will help you see what you do not want to see.

Just be sure to keep us updated on what becomes of all of this.

I would be happy to eat crow..

[newjason]

Lose all this "keep her or leave her" stuff. She's not your girlfriend until you put your pinkstick in her.
I'd keep her phone number for when I was infiltrated to the FSU, but move on to other women with better English and more willingness to communicate. Good luck.

+1

[GQBlues]

There is a big difference between a woman not being worth further effort or serious material and being a scammer.

Other than a couple of people mentioning in passing that since there has been no voice call she could even be a "fat Yuri" I don't recall scammer being mentioned.

Always gone to visit grandparents on weekends, phone-calls straight to voicemail, refusal to Skype. these situations simply don't bode well when they occur after four months with a woman who was supposedly interested in marrying a non-Russian.

Best of Luck to you!

Yeah, but she's gorgeous!     Besides, who knows., maybe someone at home won't be too excited about a man calling, you know.

I digress.

Yes, maybe she's shy due to language difficulties. Heck, so shy in fact, she may even need an interpreter recommendation someday during her wedding. If so, let us know we'll be happy to give more interpreter recommendations. But, it's only been 4 months for these guys ferchrissakes.

So many things can be happening here.....like, like...nah. I doubt it...or on second thought maybe not.

[Belvis]

Actually, I was the one who asked her when was her birthday and planned the trip to arrive Minsk on this day. I was expecting her to ask me in return when was my birthday... she never did. I'm wondering if this is a cultural thing where the male has to assume the dominant role of asking questions and expect no questions back from the woman.

Your birthday is the last thing FSUW wants to know about you. There are much more important things to be clarified. Your  attitude to kids, your interests in life, how you spend free time, why you're single, your humor sense, did you love somebody ever and so on. She will be deeply interesting who are you when starts to feel affection. Right now you're just a stranger for her.  And yes, it takes efforts to win women's affection from a non-desperate one.

[BC]

Lose all this "keep her or leave her" stuff. She's not your girlfriend until you put your pinkstick in her.

That's a pretty crude way of putting it.. aside from the fact that this measure is hardly indickative [sic] of exclusive relationship status.

[Gator]

Forget subtle. Contact Elena and have her call her for a conversation and setting up the very earliest all 3 can have a 3-way call. Not next week or month, like tomorrow.


You really can't tell anything. You can't and haven't communicated with her at all. You've made contact. Call the interp Elena and have her call at once, set up a 3 way. Get these questions you've ask here, answered at once. The time is now.

Listen to FP.  Take charge.   Make decisions.   A man who does this is referred to by FSUW as a "strong man."    Guess what?  FSUW want a strong man.  Not a brute but a man who knows what to do and does it. 
 
FSUW do not want a "man child."  Life in the FSU is not as easy as life in the West.  Many obstacles.  Many bad guys.  Less opportunities.   A strong man is needed to thrive in such a difficult environment.   Besides, if you marry a FSUW, you will need to guide her when she arrives in a strange land.  She knows that.
 
So do it.

[Ranetka]

Actually, I was the one who asked her when was her birthday and planned the trip to arrive Minsk on this day. I was expecting her to ask me in return when was my birthday... she never did. I'm wondering if this is a cultural thing where the male has to assume the dominant role of asking questions and expect no questions back from the woman.

So you are planning on inviting yourself to her birthday? Does she know about it? Since you have never met if I were her I would not be happy if some penpal decidied to arrive on my birthday.

[Gator]

So you are planning on inviting yourself to her birthday? Does she know about it? Since you have never met if I were her I would not be happy if some penpal decidied to arrive on my birthday.

Agree 100%.  Celebrations of birthdays in the FSU are major events, usually done with family.   That is why I said it was a very positive factor if she invited you for her birthday.  Bring a special gift, not just yourself.

[Muzh]

Badabing, I'm sorry but I have to ask you.
 
What is your age gap?

[ghost of moon goddess]

Your birthday is the last thing FSUW wants to know about you....

Not really. I'm afraid that you  have been unfortunate enough as to encounter only impolite female subjects